Hell in the Bekaa Valley
Pajamas Media has a breaking story on an ongoing commando raid in Baalbek against a Hezbollah big. The raiders are in action. Unprecedent IAF activity overhead. Hezbollah says the raid failed. Air raids to the western Bekaa and the Syrian border ongoing. IDF raiding team reported by Hezbollah at the hospital. Lebanese sources say the aerial fire around the hospital is absolutely unprecedented.
20:12 PDT The IDF raid on Baalbek ends. Israel reports it has captured Hezbollah targets and killed others, all men out with no casualties among the raiders. (Fox)
posted by wretchardthecat at 8/01/2006 04:02:00 PM
141 Comments:
Interesting, from a
Haaretz article:
Baalbek, an ancient city with spectacular Roman ruins, was a former Syrian army headquarters and included the barracks of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards when they trained Hezbollah guerrillas there in the 1980s.
Wonder what they are after?
They were after a Hez leader who was in a hospital in the area, or so it is said.
Can we think
a thousand times before we kill
the other in the name of power
or land or ideology?
And after we have thought a thousand times,
written down the reasons,
met with friends to test our cause,
renewed the guns and missiles,
cleaned off the button;
when we have stored up food and water
for a siege, sent the children
to a safer place,
shored up bunkers in backyards,
built new ones near the mint,
thought of hero as someone
convulsed and martyred in the mud,
committed maps to memory,
studied up on ciphers, invented
a new history of disease
and buried the family jewels
to foil the looters;
once we have tolled the bells
and prayed our guttural prayers
for the spirit to be named for us;
sent factories into overtime to make the braids
and uniforms, the medals
to decorate the ones who can return,
confused shelling peas with houses,
small kingdoms crushed;
after we check procedures
for the treatment of fallout
from that most unnatural cloud,
and persuaded our young
that it is just to fight this way,
an adventure, safe, no hand to hand;
when we have done these things
and more, could we think
a thousand times again?
by Jorie Manefield Ryan
As this war grinds on, the privileged status of the Hez within Lebanon comes into question. Either 1559 is enforced or it is not. If the Hez doesn't disarm, other parties may not necessarily obey UNSCR 1559 either.
This would lead to a game of "52 card pick up" where a flood of weapons would deluge Lebanon as every political faction that is not Hezbollah will try to arm itself -- fast.
Interesting that it was an aerial insertion. No tail to be attacked by guerrillas, but at the same time vulnerable to entrapment. I find this very fascinating, as it suggests that Hizb'allah may be low on SAMs, otherwise such a move, especially into the Bekka, would be very dangerous.
Who was that who advocated deep strike followed up by ground forces to cordon the Syrian border?
See Wretchard's "Path of the IDF" from the 22d of July.
Sucks to be a Hez about now. It's a good thing. A beautiful thing.
hdgreene, that almost sounds like Israeli psyops in action. Spook Assad some, and he just might reconsider allowing arms shipments to Hizb'allah.
Noticed the short comment list; have been lurking x 2-3 yrs. Just wanted to second the commenters who have left their compliments. This is a great site; Wretchard, keep up the good work. How can I pay you?
DD
(http://www.doctordisgruntled.blogspot.com)
Captain America, from some of the Lebanese sites I have visited recently, some of the non-Shi'ite groups are pretty pissed as well. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Lebanese civil war flare up again following Israel's pullout. The important thing is that Israel hurt Hizb'allah enough so that it can't overpower the other groups initially.
Well if one power attacks another power and there is one group that resists the invading power, they will be the recipient of great sympathy from the defending populace. It is normal and reasonable to expect Hezbollah has great sympathy from the greater Lebanese population. From a Lebanese view point what is there to like about the invading Israelis?
However if Israel can dispatch Hezbollah quickly and the international community provides security and put some serious money into rebuilding Lebanon, this can be overcome. Israel must defeat Hezbollah or it will be the beginning of the end for Israel. It has no other choice, yet to this time, it has made a very poor showing. The public relations have been a case study in ineptitude. Syria is key to how this evolves. State should be in overdrive with the Saudis and Egyptians. This still can end well.
STRATFOR excerpt on ongoing ground offensive for whatever it is worth:
"These are fragmentary reports available by wire services. They are far from defining what is happening on the ground. But what seems to be happening is the IDF is engaging forces in the south carefully while action is taking place in the east and west. The remaining strategic question is whether Israel will focus on southern Lebanon and leave the missile threat and a large part of Hezbollah forces out of its plans, or whether it will drive into the Bekaa and up the coast to deal with Hezbollah in detail. It would seem to us that this would give Israel the maximum advantage, dealing with Hezbollah more completely, taking advantage of its greater mobility and air power and using artillery and airstrikes to grind down Hezbollah and attempt to break its morale in the south. What is unknown, of course, is the disposition and capabilities of Hezbollah north of the Litani and in the Bekaa. We suspect the Israelis might find the same resistance in the Bekaa as in the border region."
Not clear what's happening around the Baalbek hospital. Reports of dozens of IDF helos in area. Helo gunships in runs gainst Hez forces around hospital. Air strikes to east and north hills.
You can read this as an attempt to extract the raiding team or the raiding team the lure for envelopment. Firing runs against Hez positions by gunships and no helos reported down, even by the Hez suggest -- suggest only -- that IDF has dominance over AAA.
All speculation for now. More details awaited.
Y'all suppose it could be Castro in that hospital?
Pass that rumor around in Miami and the IAF will have all the help it could ever want!
Anyone know if the IAF has any AC-130 style gunships? Would be perfect for that situation.
This from Steve Schippert ofer at Threatswatch:
Israel is providing a lesson on fighting the war on terror.
"The mighty Hizballah, rightfully feared as the most lethally armed terrorist organization on the planet, is now on the ropes. Only their lifeline from Syria sustains them in the midst of devastating strikes from the Israeli Air Force. From the hundreds of rocket launchers in southern Lebanon to weapons depots and infrastructure all the way up the Bekaa Valley in Baalbek, Hizballah’s operational headquarters city, the IAF has exacted a heavy toll from Hizballah since the attack in Israel in which Hizballah terrorists killed eight IDF soldiers and abducted the two surviving.
In fact, in a radio interview with John Batchelor, retired Air Force General Tom McInerney detailed a debriefing with a senior IDF official in which he detailed that Israel believes their airstrikes have eliminated 70% of the long-range Iranian ZelZal missile systems in Hizballah hands. McInerney noted that over 1000 Hizballah infrastructure targets have been struck by Israeli air power up and down the Bekaa Valley (once called the most heavily defended air corridor on the planet) and throughout Southern Lebanon, including weapons storage facilities, command and control centers, vehicle repair facilities and 18 Hizballah financial centers which serve in the place of banks.
While sustaining these enormous losses, Hizballah is having difficulty re-supplying across the Syrian border. Convoys from Syria are struck by F-16’s and drones once they are within Lebanese borders, often with the massive secondary explosions that indicate arms shipments."
Sounds like Israeli intel wasn't so bad afterall.
... or the raiding team the lure for envelopment.
Ahh, that would be nice. Draw the bastards out into open battle!
What is this about?
France to boycott talks on int’l force in Lebanon
http://www.ynetnews.com/
articles/1,7340,L-3284968,
00.html
Just yesterday the French were in helter-skelter meetings with the representatives of Lebanon and Syria, allegedly to lay the groundwork for the introduction of French peacekeepers.
Is Hezbollah about to have a Knights Templar moment?
Is Hezbolah hurt?
From the 24 Jul post at American Future, quoting an interview with Nasrallah:
"If the resistance survives, this will be a victory. If its determination is not broken, this will be a victory. ... If we are not militarily defeated, this will be a victory. As long as a single missile is launched from Lebanon to target the Zionists, as long as a single fighter fires his gun, as long as someone plants an explosive device for the Israelis, this means that the resistance still exists."
"We love martyrdom. We take precautions in order to prevent Israel from making any gains. But on the personal level, and as a personal aspiration, each and every one of us hopes to be destined to martyrdom at the hands of those people, the killers of the prophets and the messengers, and most hostile to the believers, as it says in the Koran."
Okay, so he essentially gives a long winded version of the last line from the film "633 Squadron."
Mind you, at that point the war was still in its "fun" stage for Hezbolah.
So as long as one Hezbolah terrorist fires his gun in defiance, it's a victory to them.
So not one must be left to fire that gun. A daunting objective, but I say "Give it a try."
The risk the IDF is taking in inserting a commando team into the Bekaa is extraordinary.
It does not make sense unless they are mounting a rescue attempt. It is just a guess, but I think they are trying to get back their men.
Hyperborealis,
That is my fear. You don't insert a small force to take on the Hez. in their stronghold. The length of the operation and "unprecedented" air cover indicate, to me, that the Israeli's have been unable to extract their soldiers. Air power alone will not hold back Hez. from capturing or killing those soldiers. I fear that the soldiers will all be killed or Hez. will end up with more Israeli prisoners.
Pray for the Israeli soldiers.
hyperborealis,
The other alternative which someone has suggested to me by email (field grade officer) is the swarm decapitation. Who knows?
"...can we think a thousand times...?"
In brief, Yes, its all been thought out previously on the morality of excising poisonous bits and portions from the body-humane.
And "...a thousand times..." right NOW? Briefly, NO! For that would enable and empower and respite the diseased, attacking and verminous thugs amongst the body-humankind, which is immoral and dehumanizing.
The "..think... a thousand times..." has been THOUGHT, and now is the time for ACTION against the purveyors of oppression and hatred: Iran, Syria and their meat-puppets the Hizb'ullah!
yonitheblogger.com
Lebanese: IDF tried to kidnap senior Hizbullah member
Lebanese: IDF tried to kidnap senior Hizbullah member
Lebanese army and security officials said early Wednesday that special IDF forces attempted to kidnap a senior Hizbullah member from a hospital near Baalbek in the west Lebanon Valley.
Lebanese media say the mark may have been Sheikh Muhammad Yazbek, a member of Hizbullah’s High Council and one of 12 senior organization members.
It remains unclear whether the operation was successful, but witnesses said “the Jews took some people with them.”
A Hizbullah spokesman said gunmen belonging to the organization have besieged an IDF unit that was transported by air to the area. According to reports, the Israeli forces have entrenched themselves inside the hospital and are engaging in face-to-face combat with local gunmen.
Eyewitnesses inside the hospital told Al-Arabiya that exchanges of fire are taking place inside the hospital and that there are numerous casualties at the scene.
Several senior Hizbullah members reside in Baalbek, and the organization maintains a number of civilian and military institutions in the city.
According to reports, the operation began with at least six rapid air strikes, after which IAF choppers attempted to land ground forces in the city’s western sector.
A Lebanese army outpost in the town of Shlifa, west of Baalbek, was also attacked.
Lebanese media estimated that the IDF forces planned to kidnap the sheikh from the Dar el-Hichma hospital, located north of Baalbek; Yazbek was reportedly surrounded by other senior Hizbullah members.
Flares held aloft by parachutes lighted the night sky to a daytime brilliance, a Lebanese official said.
I have tried to verify this story with my contacts but as of this time I can't verify the reason for the commando action in the Beeka Valley.
Hard to say, but this article seems to indicate it was a snatch and scoot, and hopefully the commandoes have gotten out.
Rahal said IAF jets were attacking the surrounding guerillas with rockets.
"The units have been surrounded by Hezbollah fighters and heavy fire is covering the area," said a Hezbollah source.
"They [the Israelis] are firing everywhere and trying to get out of the area," the source said.
Rahal said Hezbollah guerrillas were using automatic rifles and rocket-propelled grenades. He dismissed as "untrue" reports that the commandos managed to snatch some patients from the hospital and spirit them away in helicopters.
IAF helicopters also opened machine-gun fire on Hezbollah fighters entrenched outside the hospital, witnesses said.
Repeated telephone calls to the Dar al-Hikma hospital went unanswered.
"The battles are fierce... there are casualties among the civilians who live in the area," a Lebanese security source said.
Al-Jazeera reported that the commando force landed at the hospital, in the village of Tel Al-Abayed, in an apparent effort to strike a senior Hezbollah official Israel suspected was hospitalized there. According to the report, the hospital was evacuated prior to the start of the IDF operation.
IAF fighter jets returned at 3:35 A.M. Wednesday and fired eight missiles on residential neighborhoods in eastern and northern Baalbek where Hezbollah's Shiite supporters live, witnesses said. There was no immediate word on casualties.
However, fierce fighting around the hospital stopped shortly before 4 A.M. as precarious calm prevailed in Baalbek, residents said.
Yoni's Thoughts On Baalbek Raid
What is clear at this time is that an operation is going on in Baalbek.
This is a special ops action, the type of action that was part of the triad that has made the IDF famous world wide.
Lighting strikes by Israeli commandos have made the name Entebbe world famous.
The second part of the triad was bold military moves involving our conventional forces.
The third part of the triad was never, never let a Jew be murdered without paying back the enemy 1000 fold.
Israel needs to implement all three branches of the triad to win in Lebanon against Hizballah.
1. Commando raid must take place all over Lebanon.
2. The IDF must attack with conventional forces in mass with over whelming strength and go all the way to the Litani River and never leave.
3. Nasrallah must be dead for Israel to win this war.
23 years after the Barracks attack -
The Sweet smell of Revenge:
This is going to be Iwo Jima for Hezbollah, and hopefully worse.
Hezbollah's Iwo Jima Delusion
It is so gratifying to know our Israeli allies are making productive use of our bunker-busters. Thank you, Israel.
USA! USA! USA!
ot, but know no BC Members would want to miss this:
---
Former President Jimmy Carter ,
writing in the Washington Post says
“there will be no substantive and permanent peace for any peoples in this troubled region as long as Israel is violating key U.N. resolutions, official American policy and the international “road map” for peace by occupying Arab lands and oppressing the Palestinians.”
---
cycle of violence
strong majorities that want peace
international community
peace process
roadmaps
etc ad nauseum, again
75% Democrat--Yeh, so much for Allen's "brain trust" LOL!
:-D
I should talk, the scandahoovians across the upper midwest are the *worst* liberals of all.
HEY--Fox guy reporting, action over in Ballbeck hospital according to AP and Israeli forces. All IDF out of area--not known if target person grabbed or not--
AP reporting "guerrillas captured"!
THREE CHEERS!
Right in Hez HQ--the Hez troops are gonna feel *that* !
well, me too. Still am, "first reports" and all.
CNN is reporting there were no Israeli casualties in the operation. At least three Hez'boobs were snatched -- although they are rumored to be low ranking.
Or South Leb--or the Panama Canal, or the US Embassy in Tehran.
Oh, the Hez will be angry. They'll have to sneak up on an unsuspecting jetliner again, somewhere, sometime, and kill 'em up a mess o' civvies. Honor, y'know.
hah--good un, trangbang--I was just thinking about the theatrically pious Mr. Carter showing up for his Eternal Reward, and looking around his new quarters, and saying "Well, I'll be damned!"
buddy; 8:09 PM
Hezbollah is tough on corpses as well:
“Hizballah's Treasure”
http://www.yonitheblogger.com/
9-11:
The Five Year Milestone will be here soon.
It will be heartwarming to see deep damage done to Islamofascists.
Looking forward to many Hezbollah scalps.
Iran Mullahs and pet cockroach Ahmadinejad: you're next.
USA! USA! USA!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Thanks for keeping up the threads guys. For anyone who hasn't heard, the IDF raid has ended; all raiders reported out; no casualties. Some Hez killed, others snatched. Ranks of Hez captured unknown.
At least some media, outside our mainstream folks, are trying to pay attention. This is from Asia Times:
*******************
href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH02Ak03.html"> Tehran teeters on the path to war
While most likely Israel will not get its ultimate wish granted, and will ultimately have to settle with a much-diminished Hezbollah at the end of the military campaign, nonetheless its current efforts are dealing a huge blow to an important edifice of Iran's deterrent strategy.
Only by resorting to an inverse logic can we possibly consider as a gain what is clearly a net loss for Iran, seeing how Iran will be prevented in the future from counting on Hezbollah to strike back at Israel in the aftermath of a showdown with either Israel or the United States.
It is, therefore, hardly surprising that there are strong voices of concern within Iran's ruling establishment, some claiming the war in Lebanon as a victory for Israel, with serious negative ramifications for Iran's "national security and even her territorial sovereignty", to quote Ali Montaseri, an Iranian penning in Baztab.com, a website closely linked to President Mahmud Ahmadinejad.
****************
Meanwhile, defeatists on the left and right abound in our country and in Europe.
I'm just so sick of all the damn defeatists. Bitch and moan, bitch and moan, bitch and moan.
This raid into Baalbek may be the most filmed operation in military history.
Tomorrow, Israel will be blamed for destroying the hospital and murdering innocent civilians.
Let’s hope the administration resists the temptation to immediately commiserate.
I’ll bet all those confiscated hard drives will prove useful.
I can't wait to read Sarah's version of today's events.
So, what, C4, does IDF quit fighting back on the basis that it just makes Hez stronger? Follow your logic.
Well, the big chiefs will be studying the sky a little more closely now. Hugo, too, will be thinking. Hmmm, wonder if IDF would snatch his fat ass for us--maybe drop him over Tehran, wearing his new Hero of Iran medal.
It just occured to me I have a couple of Cuban cigars stting around. I may fire one up to celebrate the double-plus good news today. ;)
Let me see if I understand this. Israel placed at risk troops, aircraft, and prestige for the purpose of capturing a few lowlifes hiding in a hospital. Give me a break.
What was in that facility worth the risk?
How did the IDF use the hours in the artificially illuminated city of Baalbek?
Where was Hezbollah’s devastating air defense system?
When will Syria come to the aid of Hezbollah?
Them Cuban's is illegal, beware:
Blogger Jailed After Defying Court Orders
Just in from CNN, The Guardian, and al-Jazeera!!!
"About four hours from now the hospital will collapse on top of a baby milk factory employing women and children in one of the few free market enterprises still existing in Southern Lebanon."
and...
"Jooish Nazi Stormtroopers kidnapped civilians across an internationally sanctioned border and are torturing them in office space rented out at Gitmo."
and... and...
"Hezbollah spokesmen state that they cannot lose and will never give up. Under the Iranian Embassy, in a baby milk factory, surrounded by pregnant women, during a wedding party, this Hezbollah statesman is telling the world that he and his are the bravest, most capable Islamic Army in the world!!!" Then the Satanic Jooish Jets scream overhead. "Grab your weapons and run..."
"Where was Hezbollah’s devastating air defense system?"
---
'Rat's holding in reserve for when the (80's era) Soviet Troop Carriers start coming in.
Otherwise he loses his bet w/me.
It will be very difficult for Hezbollah to act as a holding force in the Great Mahdi war, eh...
"When will Syria come to the aid of Hezbollah? "
---
When did they stop?
More active participation await's descension of baby's family jewels.
rattlergator:
Meanwhile, defeatists on the left and right abound in our country and in Europe.
Of course. There are some people who feel a vested interest in our defeat, no matter what the actual price. That fact is, Western defeatists have not had the benefit of suffering the effects of their own actions; so far, it is for other people to suffer those effects, which are blamed on the defeatists' "devil of the month".
One of the sad legacies of the Vietnam era is the cultural ascendancy of a class of people who feel an emotional identification with the defeat of the United States. And it is this defeatism that actually causes much of the Islamism we see. To those who idolize victory (such as Nazis and Islamists), defeatism reinforces their resolve to defeat us and leads them to believe they can prevail despite overwhelming odds against them.
Just as abusers can home in on "jerk magnets" and prostitutes attract pimps, decadent defeatists attract terrorists -- and if there aren't enough Islamists to take part in the masochistic fantasy, someone else will take their place.
Lahoud just gave an interview to that ace Brit Fox reporter Johnathan something (? dammit no memory) wherein he roasted Israel exactly as if Israel had just up and outta nowhere invaded. Not a word about the Hez attack--not a word. These people are fantastical-minded.
Bubble above picture reads: "Why's she have to be Jooish?"
Teresita:
Very funny comment about Sarah
Allen:
While Sarah's comments are mostly negative, yours are always negative but you make up for it by being also nasty ;)
Why?
While I think the War Nerd may have touched a bit of truth about today's IDF vs the Originals, the special forces remain special.
Yoni says they start tracking kids in Kindergarten for proper attributes!
My version of today's events is that it's about time.
I've been saying for 5 years that the Bekka Valley is the Jihad capital of the world and that as long it's in operation, the Jihad will be as well.
My only complaint is that it seems rather small scale, but who knows what the news will say.
But this is more like it.
Hopefully they got some good intel, killed a bunch of bad guys, blew up a bunch of stuff and got out.
Fewer rockets fell today.
Syria and Iran are standing by.
The next few days could be telling
Imagine if all this was happening with a nuclear armed Iran, one determined to present itself as the flagship for Muslims, and unwilling to backdown.
We could have a Cuban Missile Crisis situation quite easily, especially considering the rhetoric that the (non-contiguous to Israel) Iranians are used to throwing around. Would the Israelis allow them the opportunity to follow up on it once, or act first?
Iranian nuclear weapons are going to turn every regional conflict between Israel and the Arabs into nuclear chicken.
Returning to premature commiseration
The Red Cross is reporting the deaths in Qana at about ½ that reported by the Hezbollah, the MSM, the EU, and the State Department. It would now seem that only 29 bodies can be accounted for by the Red Cross.
Henceforth, Israel should be admonished to show “semi-restraint.”
Of course, there is the growing possibility that Israel was guilty of nothing.
Well, better to be ahead of the ball even if that means badmouthing your foxhole buddy.
luc,
“always”? That does take in a lot of territory doesn’t it?
Are you “always” hyperbolic?
“nasty”…Hmmm…Can you be more specific?
It could be that two chambered heart of mine. C. carcharias you know. Is it nature or nurture, do you think?
Wonder why IDF got no Spectre/Spooky/Puffthemagicdragon gunships?
rufus 8:43:44
Actually, I think that if Adolf Hitler had been killed (or even arrested on charges of pedophilia or murder) in 1932, the Nazi Party would still have been a problem. But not the same kind of problem. WWII may still have happened, but the Holocaust would have been prevented. The world would be a very different place.
The question of who leads a radical movement does matter. True, assassination leads to the most cautious and level-headed leaders to take power. Just look at the example of the Sandinistas, where Somoza had carefully assassinated every hot-headed leader the leftists had. I think the Sandinistas will have a more enduring legacy than Castro will.
For that matter, the British Empire's capture of General Lee did more for the Revolutionary cause than it did for the Tories because that British victory took away a major source of intrigue in the Revolutionary ranks and gave General Washington an opportunity to solidify his authority over the Continental Army at the Battle of Trenton.
From my point of view, Mr. Nasrallah's death would mean the end of an excellent orator, a capable administrator, and a reckless adventurer who seeks the limelight. His death would not solve Israel's problems, but may change the way Hezbollah makes strategic decisions. It would be best if there were no Israeli fingerprints on the gun that kills him.
from the Herald Sun, August 02, 2006 06:18am
"ISRAEL today hacked into the television station of Hezbollah, emblazoning images on the screen showing pictures of corpses and claiming the Shiite militant group's leader Hassan Nasrallah was a liar.
One of the images shown on Al-Manar television portrayed the body of a fighter lying face-down, wearing khaki trousers with a text beneath in Arabic reading: "This is the photograph of a body of a member of Hezbollah's special forces".
"The captured Hussein Nasrallah has the same name as a key Hizbollah official."
At least the IDF got the brother-in-law! (Figure that one out)
********
A lot of us folks are up late, chasing these events. Night, night, all,
"He that watcheth Israel neither slumbers or sleeps."
James Earl Carter wants to do for the United States what many Communists think Gorbachev did for USSR.
Even pathetic loser Sex-Addict William Jefferson "Service-Me-NOW" Clinton at least could tell the difference between a culture that would sneeringly tolerate his antics versus one which would sneeringly saw his neck while hollering "God is Great!"
Carter should be cast to play the character Arnold Judas Rimmer in the BBC Sci-Fi comedy "Red Dwarf." He's clearly type-cast to play an ineffectual, inflated, pseudo-moralizing coward.
In Carter, we really learn to understand and heed that "little prick of conscience."
luc,
Sorry!
Politicians and diplomats should never be given a break. Graveyards are filled with their mistakes.
I have not observed any shortage of fawning political groupies. They can survive without my approbation.
"Little Prick of Conscience" LOL--pore guy was never the same after that killer rabbit attacked him. And Amy begged him to do something about noogooler war. and he made the fireside chat and his sweater caught on fire. and he accused Americans of suffering from mayonnaise of the spirit.
"Long Live the Israeli Army!" and "Long be dead the Cuban Tyrant!"
sez i, off to sandland--
Item the First: Just because some Arab *calls* something a "hospital" does not necessarily mean that's not a code-word for "headquarters".
Same like calling a 16 or 17-year old terrorist a "child victim".
Item the Second: Wretchard thinks Nasrallah should run up a white flag and dicker for a ceasefire. Can he do that without handing over two live Israeli kidnap victims in return?
If I was Israel I wouldn't stop shooting until I got what I went in for. If they're dead, that's one thing. If they're currently stashed in Iran ... then what?
C-Span is carrying some forum in which a pack of knuckleheads are whining and mewling about Qana.
One of the speakers is particularly acute case — identified by subtitle as a founder of the “electronic intifada.” When I first tuned in, she was talking about a dear friend — who is a PhD candidate in something or other, which she evidently mentioned mainly to remind us that Lebanese are humans, too, you know — had sent her an email that “it was happening all over again in Qana!”
Let’s see... I remember from when I was seven years old in the late 1950’s hearing news reports about troubles in Lebanon that required the U.S. to send in the Marines. That area has been in intermittent chaos and war for fifty years. What kind of mental patient thinks it’s okay to VACATION IN A WAR ZONE?
At least today I’ve heard that some of the mainstream alleged news organizations are questioning whether Hizb’ollah may have somehow manufactured or enhanced the tragedy of the Qana casualties. That is an encouraging sign of some awakening among the media — especially since the early reports acknowledged the 8-plus hour delay between the shelling and the building collapse.
The concept of a “tipping point” can be applied to even the most industrially-hardened apologist-for-terror.
I’m telling you, these days any conversation with a liberal I am entering pre-annoyed.
Know Your Enemy
How Israel's bombing turned Hizbollah leader into a symbol of Muslim pride
By Patrick Cockburn
Published: 02 August 2006
..."Nasrallah was born on 31 August 1960 in east Beirut's Bourj Hamoud district. His father was a vegetable seller originally from south Lebanon. He was the eldest of nine children and aspired to be a cleric from an early age but it was war which shaped his upbringing. The outbreak of the civil war sent his family back to their ancestral village of Bassouriyeh, not far from Tyre. It was from here that the local clergy sent him to the great Shia theological centre in Najaf in Iraq where he studied for two years and met Moussawi, of whom he was an early follower.
Saddam Hussein was suspicious of Shia religious enthusiasts and in 1978 he expelled foreign religious students from Najaf. The next important event in Nasrallah's career was the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982, which he vigorously opposed, becoming a guerrilla commander. He was also known to oppose an increase in Syrian influence in Lebanon and to have advocated fighting the Israelis in the south of the country. He was only 31 years old when the killing of Moussawi by the Israelis made him leader of Hizbollah."...
http://news.independent.co.uk/
world/middle_east/article1209746.ece
Dot Connectors Take Note:
Blair Having Second Thoughts
Tony Blair sees the lack of a comprensive Israeli and Palestinian settlement as a root cause of the WOT. Nothing can be more obvious. Hezbollah on Israel's border and Hamas in Palestine are clearly toxic to that needed settlement.
"As Opposition Mounts at Home, Blair urges Rethink of Middle East policy
By George Jones in Los Angeles and Brendan Carlin
(Filed: 02/08/2006)
Tony Blair called yesterday for a rethink of foreign policy towards the Middle East, warning that the United States-led war on terrorism risked alienating mainstream Arab opinion.
He said "a complete renaissance of our strategy" was needed to fight "an arc of extremism stretching across the Middle East".
Tony Blair called for an 'alliance of moderation'
Mr Blair said the West was engaged in an "elemental struggle that will shape our future" - but it could not be resolved by force alone. Unless the West reappraised its strategy, revitalised the global agenda on poverty and climate change and resolved to "bend every sinew of our will to making peace between Israel and Palestine, we will not win"..."The speech will be seen as an implicit criticism of President George W Bush's insistence on using military force to crush militant Muslims and the way the "road map" for the Middle East has been put on the back burner"...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/02/wblair02.xml
trish,
As a general proposition I would agree with your assessment. However, in this instance I respectfully disagree.
Although Hezbollah reports a battle on the level of Thermopylae, given the length of time the city was open to the IDF and the paucity of casualties, I am inclined to believe that the IDF had unencumbered access to Baalbek. To what end remains to be seen, but I am confident there is much more here than meets the eye. As Belmonteers readily appreciate, a plethora of information can be had from hard drives, cell phones, etc. Perhaps, the raid was justified to acquire not who, but what.
Moreover, given the failure of Syrian intervention at this late date, it appears that Hezbollah has been had. While historical projection is always dangerous, it does appear that Hezbollah is the modern equivalent of the Knights Templar: a power placing the status quo at peril; therefore, Syria, Lebanon, and France have gone for the kill. Ironic, given France, but history is filled with such irony.
My question would inquire into the cost of getting Syria to “flip”, as rufus might characterize the situation, to his credit. Additionally, what does Syria understand about future Coalition operations against Iran that would have such an impact on a heretofore recalcitrant country?
If that “snot” Spengler is correct, August may be the biggest month since 1914, no disrespect to our brilliant host intended.
While I will not live to see a thorough, rigorous history of the present events, I would not be surprised if Messrs Netanyahu and Sharansky might have been instrumental in getting Messrs. Olmert and Peres to flip.
redaktør said...
"2164,
Any reason why you felt compelled to copy and paste that piece of shit commie propaganda?
8/01/2006 11:28:42 PM"
I really did not have you in mind when i did it. A few more thoughtful previous posts discussed the wisdom and expected result of eliminating Nasrallah. There is the additional irony that Saddam Hussein once licked him out of Iraq. This may be of interest to those thinking about connections between related events and players in the WOT. You may not have noticed that there is a substantial opinion that the war in Iraq is not providing the predicted scenario of Jeffersonian Democracy.
This really should not overly concern you and your remarkable sequence of posts that probably accurately reflect your thinking on these matters. Have a nice night.
Thank you redaktør, good night. I need some rest.
cedarford,
Mr. Bin Laden has been dead since at least Tora Bora.
He remains a niffty poster boy for the GWOT. But he is dead, dead, dead.
Nevertheless, he does have real utiity value, eh?
Oh, if you can prove that Osama is in the land of the living, have at it.
"From my point of view, Mr. Nasrallah's death would mean the end of an excellent orator, a capable administrator, and a reckless adventurer who seeks the limelight."
---
I read something today that included a quote from an Israeli who said Nas was such a great speaker that he recorded him and listened just for pleasure!
Goofy Juice.
I'm tryin' to recall the 38th President's call for HB to meet the requirements of U.N. Resolution 1559. In the full panoply of American Presidents, he is the perfect ----stain. Were Teddy Kennedy elected Prez, he could not be that bad. John Kerry and Al Gore would have a shot, tho'.
As to the HB spokesman saying "...and will never give up." He's so stupid, he thinks we want him to quit. Somebody send him TrangBang68's excellent poem with copies for all his friends.
All at risk to put the bag on some low lifes?
Hell, they went into the freakin' Bekka Valey for Christ's Sake, blew away a bunch of gomers and got away clean. It's Entbee, Son Tay, and the Doolittle Raid all in one - and then some.
It doesn't matter if they only grabbed the hospital cleaning lady and Hitler's pool man. The whole IDF is in geosynch orbit right now. They just reversed their "decline" in one fell swoop.
And betcha from now on Baby Doc Assad sleeps with a night light.
And the chiefs of Hezbolah are all this morning fruitlessly looking for a clean pair of pants.
"And the chiefs of Hezbolah are all this morning fruitlessly looking for a clean pair of pants."
Are you saying they soiled their drawers in their drawers or that they each have only a single pair? ;-)
allen said:
Oh, if you can prove that Osama is in the land of the living, have at it.
It doesn't matter. They got Saddam, everyone felt good, then the Jihad resumed as if nothing happened. They got Zarqawi, everyone felt good for a a while, then the Jihad resumed as if nothing happened. It won't end until we all convert to Wahhabist Sunni Islam.
Papa bear: My thoughts exactly! And at a minimum if there were only terrorist chiefs and their (foreign?) supporters in that "hospital" you can bet they were not there just because they liked the green Jello from the cafeteria. It was a huge "safe house" at least.
3case: I think it likely that whatever the size of their wardrobe, there were multiple soiling events before they got their bowels emptied.
"Death From Above!"
By the way, what does this - and other news from the fighting in Lebanon - indicate about the state of Hezbolah and Syrian air defenses - and for that matter, Irianian. There were only so many opportunities to ship - or for that matter, to build - those long skinny pointed things. Lots of surface to surface and surface to sea rokets may very well equal not much ground to air capability. They might just be wide open.
Agree with RWE: We can be WINNING a war, know it in our heads and hearts, but if those around us are SCREAMING "LOSING! QUAGMIRE! MISTAKE!" it is VERY VALUABLE to get an unmitigated WIN, and especially one like this which demonstrates ABSOLUTE Israeli superiority over the whole of Lebanon and HUMILIATES Hezb'ollah!
Mweh!
rwe,
Amazingly so, the HB's inability to field even SAM-7s is a very encouraging development. An air assualt force of slow movers would have been the perfect targets, both in and out bound from the hospital. After a four hour firefight, if the SAMs were in the area, I'd have thought they'd have been utilized, at least on the outbound leg.
Unless, of course, the detainees were not "low level" operatives at all.
Regardless, the raid on the hospital and the 6,000 to 10,000 IDF folk now reported in Lebanon is the best short term news of the entire escapade.
OBL cannot be dead as that would eliminate "We should have gone after Osama" and the only idea the Democrats ever had for confronting Islamism.
This is an interesting take on internal Israeli politics.
"Prime Minister Ehud Olmert' s declaration Wednesday that the war in Lebanon will create new momentum for further West Bank pullouts was met by a harsh response on the part of right-wing parliamentarians as well as members of the PM's own Kadima party.
"The backing Olmert received (for the war) went to his head," Knesset Member Zvi Hendel (National Union) said in response to Olmert's comments, which seemed to stun rightist Knesset members. "How many missiles and rockets need to fall on the North and South in order for Olmert to understand that state security cannot be achieved through bragging…and splitting the nation?"
Insert, draw the bas***** into the surrounding buildings then hit with air and arty - collapsing buildings are taking them out by the dozens. Weaken them to the point where the Druze and Christians feel it is safe to take their revenge. When islamofacists are allowed to infest a nation, this is what happens when you keep attacking Israel.
On an unreleated note, there are two interesting pieces out today, in regards Haditha
"... Marine Names Murtha in Defamation Suit
By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Page A05
A Marine Corps staff sergeant who led the squad accused of killing two dozen civilians in Haditha, Iraq, will file a lawsuit today in federal court in Washington claiming that Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) defamed him when the congressman made public comments about the incident earlier this year.
Attorneys for Frank D. Wuterich, 26, argue in court papers that Murtha tarnished the Marine's reputation by telling news organizations in May that the Marine unit cracked after a roadside bomb killed one of its members and that the troops "killed innocent civilians in cold blood." Murtha also said repeatedly that the incident was covered up. ..."
Which will be fun to watch play out as it winds through the Courts.
The second piece from the AP announces "... WASHINGTON (AP) - Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.
Agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service have completed their initial work on the incident last November, but may be asked to probe further as Marine Corps and Navy prosecutors review the evidence and determine whether to recommend criminal charges, according to two Pentagon officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity. ..."
Even if we assume the best possible outcome in the Islamist Wars, one where the Palestinians turn into a civilized society, Israel will still have an intractable problem.
A Palestinian state split into two pieces with a few miles of Israel in the middle almost certainly would be a continuing causus belli among even reasonable Palestinians. The desire to join those two pieces would be irresistible. If that happened then Israel would have to be split into two pieces. An equally undesireable outcome.
It would seem that Judea and Samaria have to become something other that part of a "Palestinian State." Personally I think that Israel should have annexed the West Bank in 1967, paid some fair amount in compensation to Arabs with legitimate land titles, and moved on. How would 1968 and beyond have been worse?
Withdrawing completely from the West Bank now without having resolved the split-Palestine issue is a very dumb move.
Well, if I may quote wretchard from a previous post:
...As soon as a mosque is converted into a bunker, it ceases to be a mosque. As soon as an ambulance is converted into a troop carrier it ceases to be an ambulance.
Who knows what the hospital was hoarding within its walls, or even underneath the structure?
And the Lebanese army seems less and less likely to be part of any international force or being integrated back into the fold. Of course, that's what they said about the Baathists in Iraq too.
Is this deja woe?
Fallujah all over again?
Maj. Ido - the unit's commander - told the Post on Monday that Hizbullah had planted explosive devices along the border, made of high-quality explosives and put together with great expertise. "They build advanced and professional explosive devices," Ido said as his troops were preparing for the night's raid at a community along the northern border. "They are much more professional than the Palestinian bombs which we encounter in the Gaza Strip."
More IEDs to come?
The long term aspects of the IDF offensive are still quite murky. It is stated, publicly, that the IDF will await relief from an International Force.
The Franks, the proposed leaders of the expedition, after meetings in Damascus, have removed themselves from the discussions.
Mr Bush has said US troops will not be utilized as part of the Force. Mr Blair does not seem a likely candidate for a volunteer.
The Israeli will have been drawn back to occuppying Lebanon for an extended period, likely as not.
The Mohammedan "death by a thousand cuts" strategy then comes the fore in Lebanon, it's effectiveness witnessed in Iraq's continued violence and political instability as well as Israel's past experiences in occuppying Lebanon.
Exactly, trish, the same folks that have come to relieve the Coalition in Iraq, I sure they will all send troops to Lebanon, as well.
Wait, no one came.
Those that came to help, early, Japan, Spain, Italy, why they have left or are leaving Iraq. Doubt they volunteer for Lebanon.
NATO without US, is an empty shell.
Peter Brookes has an appropriate piece on the subject.
France's plan to end all war:
Surrender before fighting.
Can Kids Rocks keep it up???
Well, at least today, things seem to be going in Israel's favor.
All the more reason we should all try to be as pessimistic as possible.
Israel can't win; we can't win.
The Islamofascists are invincible.
Justice is on their side. Or if not Justice, at least the EU, the UN, and the MSM, and demographics, and the oil markets, and the mighty Chinese, and those supermen, the Iranian mullahs, and those geniuses and paragons of virtue, the Democrats (save Lieberman) of the US Senate -- all of which put together amounts to the same thing.
I give up.
Jamie Irons
That's what they want you to do, doc.
Mr Bush and Mr Blair want south Lebanon to be repopulated, ASAP.
Or so they said.
If the IDF is still there, they become targets for HB, as the guerillas return with the people. If the IDF is not there, HB still returns with the people.
I'm sure that aristide and M Simon can explain how this reoccuppation of Lebanon is all part of the "Grand Strategy", and perhaps it is.
At westhawk they belive that "Israel expands its attack, but it’s still only symbolic".
Time waits for no man.
DR,
As my instructor in DiffEq used to say after completing a particularly elegant proof,
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
;-)
Jamie Irons
Forget Wounded Knee:
Bury me w/rigor mortis and a new pacifier.
France and US are playing this together. It was the obvious move from the get go for them to coordinate "disagreements" to stretch out the diplomatic front while Israel takes care of business. France has been manhandled by Iran these last three years. The only reason on earth that she would want Hezbollah to survive this is if Iran were to finally agree to give up its nukes. Since Iran has failed to take the hint, France has decided to let events run their course.
Also, France will be the country with troops on the ground eventually. So it makes sense for her to play the role she's playing. Think: the people who most desperately want a ceasefire right now (Lebanese) will be soon be the sea through which the Fighting Fish of France are swimming. France is buying legitimacy with her stand against Israel, because it's not in Israel where she'll be deployed.
My take on France's "Iran is a great nation" talk here.
If one looks at the proposed sanctions against Iran, rufus, as part of the "deadline" they are inconsequential
"The resolution says the council intends to adopt "appropriate measures" if Iran does not comply. Specifically, it says, the Security Council would take measures under Article 41 of Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter, which lists potential economic and diplomatic punishments but excludes the use of force.
Vitaly Churkin, the Russian ambassador, played down the possibility of sanctions.
"If even a slight offer is made to be constructive," Churkin said, "there should be no problem at all."
No worries about the French, they will get to pose.
Dave h, C4 may've mis-read my mis-reading.
I had merely meant to point out that, as useless as it may to celebrate knocking off an enemy charismatic, it's equally useless to point out how uselss that is. Why downgrade a moral victory, just because it's not the same as a material victory? The same event is often both.
As far as reminding us that this war is bigger than it's individual players--jeez--C4, thanks for the heads up.
I remember a couple years ago a few people--GWB for one--tried to make the point that OBL himself was only symbolic, and getting him wouldn't change much materially. Of course, on cue, the oppo went for the ridicule, "Bush is an idiot, OBL is the guy who attacked us."
Of course that has changed, now Bush is the guy who attacked us. Hey, i'm gettin all cornfused.
Bush or OBL, who's your friend? Nasrollah proves you can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.
You all make a big mistake if you think France is doing anything but pursuing her national interests. She is not posing for the hell of it. There is always a thoughtful reason behind anything she does, just like there is a thoughtful reason behind anything we do.
Of course, just because it's thoughtful doesn't mean it's correct. But to paint her diplomatic actions with the brute brushstrokes of fecklessness and pettiness is to leave much covered-up and unexplained.
Heh, I wrote that last post before seeing yours, Habu. I hadn't realized others had access to it.
Desert rat:
I recommend we name our next long range heavy bomber the "Sanction"
The replacement for the Minuteman ICBM the USAF is planning to buy should be named the "U.N. Sanction"
The US Navy could build a "International Sanction Class" of aircraft carriers.
The follow-on to the M1A1 Abrams for the Army and Marines could be called the M3A1 "Diplomatic Message"
Then maybe someone would give a Rat's Rump (begging your pardon) about such stern actions.
Or at least they would wonder very hard about which one we were talking about.
France's economic losses to a US boycott of Hrench goods have been substantial. They do not want to openly oppose the US again. It's bad for business.
They do not want to openly oppose Iran, for the same reasons. They will not insert troops into Lebanon to fight HB or Syria, again, bad for business.
If the Russians or Chinese are sure to stop Sanctions of Consequence against Iran, France will pose in whatever position suits their economic best interests, vis a vie the US public.
The French long term interest is to multi polarize the World, ending US's supreme and unchallenged polarity. In that regard it sells technology to China and anyone else that can pay.
They pose for US, not the mirror.
An intact Iranian Foreign Legion makes sense for France if France/EU sees an Iranian hegemony in their long term interest. That would eventually put the EU at loggers head with the US over Iraq, unless of course Iraq falls under de facto Iranian control in the next year or so.
The combined Iran-Iraq oil fields probably contain most of the world's easily pumpable oil. It's not too hard to see a Grand Strategy with the objective of putting the EU ahead of the USA and Asia in the line for that oil.
This whacky idea is the most compelling reason I can see for Syria getting in front of Iran at risk of war with the USA. Syria would have no future risk, and would benefit greatly from participating in some EU-Iran economic alliance. Maybe Eurabia should be Eurania.
might add that, this race war, which may be a religious war, which may be a resource war, which may be a race war, may be soluble--short of a global bloodbath--only by the Islamic cult of personality. The west needs to keep fighting and hold the line and in time a new charismatic will emerge who will say, "Brothers, this war is nuts--we have 50 years worth of oil, this is our last chance to build a modern society!"
could happen soon--who knows?
Maybe smashing Hez will do the trick.
This is certainly enough of a possibilty to keep up the spirit, to keep smiling from the saddle, like ole Don Juan in Chesterton's epic poem "Lepanto"--
Lepanto, which shut down the jihad for a century and more.
"Where, risen from a doubtful seat and half attainted stall,
The last knight of Europe takes weapons from the wall,
The last and lingering troubadour to whom the bird has sung,
That once went singing southward when all the world was young.
In that enormous silence, tiny and unafraid,
Comes up along a winding road the noise of the Crusade."
That's a snip--read it all--westernism has been under far greater Islamist pressure several times before. Poems are silly? Nah, we need our dream, too.
greer rant,
Mr Gaffney's tale is BS. The US has acceptted similar limits in the WoT, against aQ.
Those limits are described in one word.
Warizistan
An aQ Sanctuary that exists today and where Doctor Z is left to his own devices.
I agree, Trish, but you left one major country out.
This is the order of events:
1. 7-30-06: Rice meets with Olmert, and afterwards it's divulged that France has agreed to send troops to Lebanon's southern border, meeting one of the preconditions for a ceasefire as defined by US-Israel.
2. 7-31-06: French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy says that Iran is a significant, respected player in the Middle East.
"It was clear that we could never accept a destabilization of Lebanon, which could lead to a destabilization of the region," Douste-Blazy said in Beirut.
"In the region there is of course a country such as Iran – a great country, a great people and a great civilization which is respected and which plays a stabilizing role in the region," he told a news conference.
3. 8-1-06: UNSC passes Resolution 1696 under Chapter VII, making Iran's suspension of uranium enrichment legally mandatory.
4. 8-1-06: Ahmadinejad issues a defiant response to the passage of the resolution.
5. 8-2-06: France withdraws from troop talks, stating that she will boycott until a ceasefire settlement has already been reached by the other parties.
To me, that looks like a Hezbollah-for-your-nukes offer by France, and a rejection by Iran.
They're not gonna be brought on board.
How true, how true.
Based on the available snippets of information I'd venture that Hizbu'allah is comparable in size and organization to an IRG division. My guess is that Iran would replace HB losses caused by Israel with regular IRG troops. Any international force less than 20,000+ that enters Lebanon without being fully capable of engaging Hizbu'allah is doomed to failure.
Can anybody imagine that HB would disarm voluntarily? Maybe in the long run having a French-heavy force bloodied by HB would be a good thing although the most likely outcome would be an even less virile future response from our EU allies. We have 1982-1983 to use as precedent. That's downright discouraging.
The sign are pointing more and more to a longer Israeli campaign and not a shorter one. The generals are in control now and there is little doubt that the IDF would savage Hizbu'allah in time. Olmert is the wild card and who knows when he'll go wobbly again.
Question: If Israel could buy a verifiable elimination of the Iranian nuclear threat, but the cost was a political settlement of the war that left Hezbollah alive, would it be smart to do so?
Which is the greater strategic threat?
If Ford could eliminate Toyota at the cost of leaving Honda intact, should they?
(Hint: Toyota is the greater strategic threat.)
France wanting a political solution before a military solution is a dead end.
Would they have Hezbollah seated at the negotiations? I think not.
Hezbollah may have backed themselves into a corner with this last escapade. The MSM are doing their dead-level best to run interference for them but the bottom line is that unless Syria or Iran come to their aid - Nas's goose is cooked - by Israel.
Enter next phase.
I think, greer rants, that the "allies" in the Government of Pakistan and it's General President are the ones that called for US to stop, and we did.
Agreed, we decided to stop chasing aQ, because on balance it was better to let aQ regroup than piss off, or on, the General President.
Israel will decide on it's own, whatever it wants. There are costs and benefits to each decision a country makes.
But, as Mr Bush said to Neil Cavuto, no one dictates to Israel.
Ford should bomb Japan.
Problem solved.
Aristides,
Does Israel trust the rest of the world to eliminate Iran's nuclear capability? If yes, then they would not take your proposed deal, because they could have their unleavened bread and eat it, too. If no, then they would take it.
rufus,
It would make them more likely to become Marines, once the Marines were finished w/Lebanon!
(Assumes Marines were not under orders of the CIC)
Which of Bart's favorite expressions
should be my Effigy?
rufus
If it were U.S. Marines slogging up the Bekaa we would know that when they reached the Syrian border that not a single living HB fighter, ammo carier or water carrier would remain.
The IDF is no slouch either but we don't have the same confidence that they will have the wherewithal to finish that kind of mission. I suspect they do but Olmert may not let them.
I think crushing HB would be the equivalenet of humiliating Liebstandarte in 1938. Would that have prevented WWII? Probably not but it would have likely delayed it by a few years.
Hezbollah is not the only problem for Israel in Lebanon. There still remains a massive Palestinian problem. Lebanese newspapers regularly report infiltrations of Palestinian militants from Syria into the western Beqaa, which in the past led the Lebanese army to seal off some 40 illegal crossing points between the countries and to tighten its control of Palestinian factions that are linked to pro-Syrian organisations based in Damascus, such as the PFLP-GC, Fatah-Intifada (a splinter group of Fatah, led by Abu Musa) and Al-Saiqa (the Palestinian wing of the ruling Ba’ath party in Syria).
According to Unrwa’s March 2006 figures, there are 404,000 Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, of whom 220,000 live in a dozen camps around the country. These include: in Beirut, Mar Elias, Burj al-Barajneh, Sabra and Shatila, and Dbayeh; in the south, near Saida, Ein al-Hilweh and Mieh Mieh; also in the south, near Tyre, al-Buss, Rashidieh, Burj al-Shemali; in the north by Tripoli, Nahr al-Bared and Beddawi; and Wavel in the Beqaa valley. There are also small illegal ghetto-camps, not recognised by Unrwa and therefore without aid.
The Lebanese army was keeping pressure around the camps, particularly those in the south which provide shelter for some 100,000 refugees; access to these is restricted and requires a permit. That has probably ceased because of the Israeli attacks.
Fatah remains the most powerful organisation here, while in the camps in Beirut, northern Lebanon and the Beqaa, the pro-Syrians have maintained a significant presence. Everywhere the increasing strength of the Islamist movements is noticeable and growing and is not going to subside.
According to Unrwa, 60% of Palestinian refugees live in poverty and as many as 70% are unemployed.
It is no small matter that Israel has no appetite to want to re-0ccupy Lebanon. The situation in Lebanon will require a lot of attention and a lot of money. This is what concerns Tony Blair and should be concerning all of Europe. The US would be smart to let Europe be the lead agent for change to normalize Lebanon. If the French have some ideas about positioning themselves as the credible alternative, their current position makes sense.
Let’s see...
• Denmark taking a stand against Islamic thugs...
• Sweden and Norway still paralyzed while hundreds of their young women are being raped by Islamic youths each month. (Well, their own politicos have been doing the same to the whole country...) Presumably they will tire of this in the fullness of time...
• France this year has gotten a dose of reality smashed in their collective face by unassimilated Islamic youth...
• Britain (as distinguished from the stiff-necked and inevitably contrarian Irish, and still-disgruntled Scots) is awakening to the danger of unassimilable Islamic fascists. Home-grown, yet.
• India is getting a belly-full of Islamic fascism, with an accelerating toll of Hindus blasted to bleeding pulp by Islamic bombs lately...
• Indonesian schoolgirls have had their heads removed from their shoulders by Islamic fanatics, to encourage conversions to their “religion of Peace.”
• The Philippines for decades have been suffering murders, kidnappings, and atrocities by Abu Sayyaf...
• It’s not been two full years since Islamic Terrorists took 1200 school children and teachers hostage and eventually murdered 344 of them in Beslan, the Russian community in North Ossetia. The terrorists had held the hostages for several days, stringing bombs rigged to “dead man-switches” and committing appalling atrocities, even by terrorist standards. Maybe you recall, the Chechen thugs videotaped themselves raping a number of teenaged girls, shot fleeing hostages indiscriminately when the assault began, and in at least one case, repeatedly stabbed an 18-month-old baby when ammunition ran out.
...
Anyone who’s been following the news for over the last few years knows I could continue this list at great length.
I’ll spare you.
The point is simply that Islamic fanatics have been treating their neighbors and their own co-religionists this way for fourteen centuries. For most of that time, there have been multiple buffers between the Infidel lands — Dar al Harb — and the lands where Islam rules — Dar al Islam — so most of us in the West have been able to occupy ourselves with our own affairs. Of course, all that’s changed is that modern technologies like transportation and communications now make it possible for us to grasp — if our minds can get ‘round it — the full scope of Islamic Jihad.
Denial is the problem.
One last thought. This current crisis (started when Hizb’allah spent months digging a tunnel so it could murder and kidnap a few Israeli soldiers, just to stir things up) became the occasion for a lot of American citizens to piss and moan about how slow our government was to respond to the “CRISIS” and evacuate its victim-citizens from harm’s way. THE FIRST DAY, there were people comparing the situation to Katrina. (Imagine the veins in my forehead exploding as I repress the urge to go into an extended harangue about the stupidity of people who know NOTHING about SAR, emergency preparedness, Posse Commitatus, but feel absolutely competent to criticize ANY DAMN THING THEY WANT!)
It’s interesting that no one seems to have raised that same question about American citizens and other foreign nationals visiting in Israel. Surely there are at any moment quite a few thousand tourists in Israel, even excluding Israelis with dual citizenship. How’s cum nobody thinks after weeks of hundreds of indiscriminate rocket attacks by Hizb’allah against Israel, that the U.S. should be mounting an evacuation of American citizens from there?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Check this U.S. State Department website for a description of various well-established terrorist organizations:
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/rpt/fto/index.cfm?docid=2801
I skimmed through and found that a lot of the names that show up in the news are aliases — i.e., there are a few groups that are the condensed coalesced version of ten or twelve contributory groups. For example, “HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement) a.k.a. Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya, Students of Ayyash, Students of the Engineer, Yahya Ayyash Units, Izz Al-Din Al-Qassim Brigades, Izz Al-Din Al-Qassim Forces, Izz Al-Din Al-Qassim Battalions, Izz al-Din Al Qassam Brigades, Izz al-Din Al Qassam Forces, Izz al-Din Al Qassam Battalions”
Another example: “Hizballah (Party of God) a.k.a. Islamic Jihad, Islamic Jihad Organization, Revolutionary Justice Organization, Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine, Organization of Right Against Wrong, Ansar Allah, Followers of the Prophet Muhammed”
Dore Gold is on Medved.
http://www2.krla870.com/listen/
Tony Blair's solution may ultimately require a western religious renaissance complete with massive proselytization emanating from a tranzi world with tranzi police power.
Maybe there's no choice, but we *could* try snuffing the mullahs' fire, first, to see if western medicine is stronger than jihadi medicine, or not.
Dear Rufus,
Thanks for the link to “Big Lizards.”
His discussion of the speculations of Lee Harris is particularly helpful.
I would go a little farther than his characterization of the Islamic Jihadist as acting out a ritualistic fantasy, and use the term “obsessive-compulsive” to describe it.
I really get the sense over time that these people are responding to some elemental force in their culture that is as compelling as the spring thaw is to the autumn seeds that fell on the earth.
This is not meant to deny their ultimate moral responsibility for their atrocities, but to suggest that the problem is not some individual aberration. Instead it seems to be absolutely a fundamental aspect of the Arab-Islamic culture sprung from the harsh nomadic desert environment, that resists all the intervening centuries of gentling exposure to other cultures better or worse.
However many “moderate” or civil or morally-constrained Muslims there are, I have to conclude that the Jihad will continue unabated until the Muslim community worldwide stands up and renounces unequivocally, all aspects of Jihad — i.e., the use of threats and violence to force unbelievers to accept Islam.
deep down, we're only a few years separated from these fellers.
buddy; 12:41
We have 2 choices with Islam. Kill them all or conversion.
Since the West lacks to stones to accomplish the first option, I suggest we get started on the second.
Security for the proselytizers is going to be a bitch, though.
May have to do some of both as you suggest.
Israel: Video shows hospital a terror base
The long arm:
"One of a series of air raids struck the village of Al Jamaliyeh, less than a mile from the hospital, AP reported. A missile hit the house of the village's mayor, Hussein Jamaleddin, instantly killing his son, brother, and five other relatives, according to AP.
"Where is the press? Where is the media to see this massacre? Count our dead. Count our body parts," Jamaleddin told The Associated Press on the telephone, minutes after the missile strike."
What if all the money we waste on weapons of destruction was spent on Solar Showers and Mandatory Delousing Centers for the A-rabs?
Worth a try, ak least.
By the time you have become "body parts", it is a little late to review that decision to fire missiles at your neighbor.
"I really get the sense over time that these people are responding to some elemental force in their culture that is as compelling as the spring thaw is to the autumn seeds that fell on the earth."
---
Maybe a chain reaction:
The lice respond to an elemental force of nature, and these poor victims are just acting out in response to the lice.
Root out the root causes,
World Peace Results.
"Is that you Donaldson?
You're a
has been! Don't have to answer questions from has beens!"
---
The W we knew and loved.
Maybe if we could get him back off the wagon...
Churchill was well-fueled, I'm told.
"has been" as in, ex-white-house reporter.
rufus--that's the point !
Blair: "Unless we re-appraise our strategy, unless we revitalise the broader global agenda on poverty, climate change, trade, and in respect of the Middle East, bend every sinew of our will to making peace between Israel and Palestine, we will not win. And this is a battle we must win."
Nothing but the socialist agenda writ large.
Our European ally speaks well, but he also speaks gibberish.
Reflects Europe well.
If the current plan depends on making peace between the Israelis and Palestinians, we better find a new plan.
All the wishing and hoping in the world isn't going to work, it just isn't going to happen for a long, long time. If ever.
"We committed ourselves to supporting Moderate, Mainstream Islam."
I've just about had it with 'supporting' phantoms. Mainstream my ass.
I love euphemisms. Compassion fatigue for depopulation by fire.
I don't know whether more people are thinking about it, or if more people are just becoming vocal about the "compassion fatigue" alternative.
Behind the battle in Baalbeck
DEATH TO AMERICA!
Post a Comment
<< Home