Sunday, July 30, 2006

The Pawns of War

I'm not going to comment on the issue of the IAF airstrike on Qana. The positions on both sides have been articulated for all to read. The Lebanese Prime Minister denounced the attack as a war crime. The IDF says the villagers had been warned to evacuate; that it had already been attacked for the last three days and that Katyushas were being fired from it and so they fired back. But all the leafelets in the world can be dropped and the death of civilians still be a near-inevitability. A BBC correspondent says something which is probably true: "many did not have the means - or were too frightened - to flee." 

That's true of Israel too and probably true of Mumbai, Bali and downtown Manhattan as well. Civilians have historically been the playthings of the battlefield where death often masquerades as safety. During the Battle of Manila, thousands of civilians sought shelter in the strongest buildings they could find. The terrible tactical logic of war meant that the same substantial buildings attracted the Japanese Army, who bayoneted civilians to take possession or simply turned them into strongpoints with the civilians inside. When the inevitable rain of 8-inch US howitzer shells came the stone walls crumbled like sand. Sixty people died in Qana. About 100,000 civilians died in the Battle of Manila, a drop in the ocean of what we remember as the Good War. One of the most interesting stories to come out the Second World War was a 2004 interview of a veteran by the VMI Adams Center, chiefly remarkable in that the interviewee had been both a B-29 crew member and a survivor of the Great Tokyo Fire Raid of March, 1945. He tells the story as someone who no longer has any secrets worth keeping.

VMI: How might you have reacted to LeMay’s announcement of the new low-altitude night bombing strategy?

Veteran: Well, I had no reaction whatsoever, because I was already a prisoner of war in a torture prison

VMI: Any comments on your treatment as a POW?

Veteran: Yeah, it was brutal. .. You have to interpret that. Hell, that’s pretty simple. There were 51 of them that were accumulated, and of those 51 who were held by the Kempei Tai – there’s a word you’ve got to know. They were the secret, brutal police. They killed their own people. They beat old ladies. They were violent people. Anyhow, of those 51 who were in that geographical grouping, 49 of them were killed, executed, beheaded. ... Each night, six people were selected out of those American B-29 prisoners. They had to sit in front of that hole they dug, and then six different guards were given the opportunity to behead them. The next night, 30 prisoners were brought back, until it went down to the final six. All 36 were beheaded.

VMI: I understand they were particularly rough on B-29 crews.

Veteran: Oh, absolutely, and with justification. What the hell – we were burning their cities. On that March 10 mission, over 100,000 people were killed. I was right in the middle of that fire war, where I was. It was so bad even my guards left for their own safety. I was right in downtown Tokyo. I found it difficult to believe that night that those were our planes at that low altitude, coming over. Couldn’t believe it. See, that was contrary to everything I ever knew about. That was the LeMay Principal we already talked about earlier. They were trail-bombing that night, meaning, you know, we’d send a pathfinder over the brave guys, the good guys, the best guys, and if they said over eight-four, we’d probably be shot down. They would lay the path with fire bombs.

VMI: Describe your experience during the March 10 raid. What did you see and hear?

VMI: Describe my experience? Well, hell, first of all, as I told you, I was in a cage. I was right in downtown Tokyo. I heard the planes passing over. There were bombs dropping in our area that were general-purpose bombs. They were primarily fire bombs, you know, that split when they were maybe hundreds of feet above the ground, so maybe each plane could start 100 fires or so. ... When you’re in that cage and the guards leave, and you’re at the mercy of God or whoever runs the world. No B-29 knew where prisoners were being held. It’s not their fault; they were doing their job.... But to be in that cage, I was extremely cold all the time, whether there was a fire raid or not. You’re just shaking, you’re so cold. You had no water, you had to beg for water. You had no toilet facilities. It was just a black, cold cage.  ... So it was a terrible night, and I never thought I’d live through that night. I heard the planes, and then the firestorm. There was only one little window at the back of my cage. It was solid wall, and this cut was only about two feet by six inches. There were bars in there. With the fire storm coming up and the wind blowing maybe 100 miles an hour, the black curtain that normally shielded my view from outside through that small sector blew out and I could see through there for the first time ever, and all I could see was the red sky or the red clouds and the flames and the smoke. The smoke was rolling through the wooden stable where I was prisoner in a cage, and it was difficult breathing. So that was that night. That was 59 years ago, two days ago. I’ll never forget it.

"I’ll never forget it." And that was all he -- and everyone else wanted to do -- forget the Good War, forget what he saw through that curtain in Tokyo as it was torn from view. The lengths to which they went to simply avoid remembering speaks volumes about what they experienced.

VMI: How many of your crew survived the captivity?

Veteran: Six were killed the day we went down. That left five of the 11-person crew. Five of them did survive. Five came home, but the life of each was relatively short. I will say that one person died in an accident, one died of a heart attack, I don’t know, several years later. One became a bag man. Do you know what a bag man is, on the street?

VMI: No.

Veteran: It’s a person who takes off and lives under bridges or becomes a hobo or moves out of the mainstream of life. Do you understand now?

VMI: Yes, sir.

Veteran: One became that, disappeared totally for over 40 years. I will give you no names. We didn’t really care to stay in touch with each other because of the fear, the real concern that our minds, when we got together, would go back to the terrible days of being a prisoner in a torture prison and starving to death and being beaten. We did not want to be exposed to any condition which would remind us of those days. There was very, very, very little contact made, which is contrary to what most people think. I’m speaking only of our own crew. One of them did remain alive and died November 30 of this year. But the ground rules were, as concerned him, he lived in the east, was that, at the request of his wife, that I no longer have contact with him, either in writing or by phone, because my voice or my notes took him back to that time in life that none of us wanted to recall. I was fortunate that his son called me while the second-to-last survivor of our crew, the Rover Boys Express, was in the hospital in his final weeks. His son called and asked if I would please call his father. He was asking for me. That is my fellow crewman, the co-pilot. I immediately welcomed that opportunity to call him, and we had about a 50% effective visit, because the medication impaired his ability to have a discussion that both of us would probably have liked to have had, but it was the ability to say goodbye to him, and thank you, and let him know that I was glad we had been together.

At reunions it's the secrets and not the memories that truly bind the veterans together.


Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Oh, how easy it would be, in these circumstances, to set-up something like this. Merely herd the civvies into the cellar, and start firing rockets from the first floor, and wait for the boom, and the photographers.

7/30/2006 05:58:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Who knows, Buddy? The Hez are proud of the human shield tactic. The UN is moving heaven and earth to resupply villages in the combat zone. Because that's humanitarian in their world. And the IDF is led by a man who once answered a question about how it felt to drop a bomb in these words:

No. That is not a legitimate question and it is not asked. But if you nevertheless want to know what I feel when I release a bomb, I will tell you: I feel a light bump to the plane as a result of the bomb's release. A second later it's gone, and that's all. That is what I feel.

And the real key to Halutz's soul are in the sentences: "No. That is not a legitimate question and it is not asked." What is the answer to that question? That it feels good? That it feels bad? That Canadian peacekeeper who died at the outpost had a better phrase which is equally meaningless and equally unavoidable: tactical necessity, which is an interesting way of rephrasing the Problem of Evil.

7/30/2006 06:19:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

it is actually simple, which people saves innocent human life when possible, which people uses any opportunity to kill a civilian from the other side when possible.

Do i feel for the kids in lebanon, sure, but i wonder why the UN and the world ignores the kids of darfur?


7/30/2006 06:21:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

Thank you

Not just shields, they are "Holy Human Shields."

7/30/2006 06:23:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

There's an interesting news story which has pictures of Hezbollah ZU-23 in obviously civilian neighborhoods, manned by people in mufti. What does it feel like to drop a bomb on this and kill kids? Maybe that's the better question. What's the answer though?

7/30/2006 06:33:00 AM  
Blogger spelunker said...

IDF must be aggressive in its PR campaign. It must place the blame squarely on the cowards who hide among the people such that attacks are visited upon the innocents. The IDF must state in unapologetic tones that wherever Hez goes, wherever it hides the IDF’s bombs and bullets will follow. In so doing, the IDF will aim to cause indigenous populations to think, at least momentarily, that proximity, to Hez can get you killed.

This author does not blame the IDF in the least bit for the unfortunate death of children. When it is stated that war is hell this is what is meant. We all see that the IDF is taking extraordinary measures to minimize casualties, but such measures cannot be so obstructionist as to prevent the attainment of the IDF’s goals.

7/30/2006 06:43:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

There is no answer to how you "feel", at least not one to share. Every man deals with his pain, guilt, and grief privately. With whom could he share? The mark of Cain, you know.

Another question worth pondering would be: Would you prefer to kill their kids or have them kill yours? This question assumes all other things being equal. Are they?

7/30/2006 06:46:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

The only good thing about war is the day of victory; the only justification. When victory itself is deemed illegitimate, when there are no surrenders, only ceasefires then what we have isn't peace, but conflict without end. A kind of torture extended by the presence of a hovering doctor. One very cynical wag defined UN Peacekeeping as the art of extending war for as long as possible. Who was it who said the danger wasn't that Darfur might become another Rwanda but that it might become another Congo?

7/30/2006 06:54:00 AM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

I agree.
What is "occupation" ..I agree
Buddy Larsen ..ditto
Wretchrd ... ditto

civilians and war, always a toughy.

I believe that war and humanitarian do not belong in the same sentence.

If the bloody islamofacists want to send children before them to die that is too bad for those kids, but you don't win global conflicts by placing at the top of your list not kill any children.
To win ..Churchill ..that is the objective.
This is clearly a clash of civilizations that the diplomats and politicians refuse to acknowledge as such. But killing on a huge scale must take place, for this is a war of conquest. Only one can be left standing and it can't be the Islamic faith.

7/30/2006 07:00:00 AM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

oops..Allen ..ditto

7/30/2006 07:01:00 AM  
Blogger fjelehjifel said...

Let's just call Israel's strategy for what it truly is: "Total War."

Israel is not just waging against Hezbollah's military capacity, it is attacking and uprooting the population from which Hezbollah derives its support.

Hezbollah has predicated its "assymetrical strategy" on the belief that the international community would not allow Israel to continue killing Shiite "civilians," let alone drive them out of south Lebanon by the hundreds of thousands.

Who knows? Maybe the Qana bombing will tip the balance in Washington in favor of immediate ceasefire. If it doesn't, Israel may very well end up creating a desert in south Lebanon.

One question is what the Arabs will choose to call it: Victory or Peace?

7/30/2006 07:03:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

Wretchard, if war is outlawed, only outlaws will wage war. All we need now (aside from love, of course) is the moral authority to make everyone just get along. Perhaps something along the lines of an Organization of UNPeace.

7/30/2006 07:09:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

For anyone that cares Mark Steyn takes the time to tell us why Ms Sarah Weddington is "right".

"... The U.S. military is the best-equipped and best-trained in the world. But it's not enough, it never has been and it never will be. ..."

But that Mr Steyn, he such a pessimistic defeatist.

7/30/2006 07:13:00 AM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

"We live in an age of inversely proportional deterrence: The more militarily powerful a civilized nation is, the less its enemies have to fear the full force of that power ever being unleashed. They know America and other Western powers fight under the most stringent self-imposed etiquette. Overwhelming force is one thing; overwhelming force behaving underwhelmingly as a matter of policy is quite another."

Mark Steyn not to be missed today.

7/30/2006 07:24:00 AM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...


guess i should have looked before i posted ...

7/30/2006 07:26:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

As to the Israeli leaflets and announcements.
As I recall, here in the US, civilians are often requested to evacuate, and refuse.
Think of New Orleans.
That was a conspiracy of the Mayor and whom?
Truth is some folk just aren't to bright.

FOX just announced that the White House calls on Israel to "show restraint"

7/30/2006 07:28:00 AM  
Blogger spelunker said...

I agree, the failure to drive for unconditional surrender on the part of your opponent may cost more lives and perpetuate wars rather than end them. Politically, who benefits by a cease fire? I contend it is the amoral/immoral party as in this instance the toll of human suffering is not quantifiable. In Aristotle’s N. Ethics he notes that you cannot talk to an amoral man about morality as he has no frame of reference from which to draw. Thus those like the Hez use cease fires to rebuild and retool in hopes of springing their plans on a prospectively less attentive foe. And when their plans are underwritten by a messianic benefactor like Iran’s “monkey” President, this augurs for no peace only respites from war with ever greater lethality.

We all must keep in mind that a defeat in terms of unconditional surrender for Hez is a mortal blow to the Iran’s Prez if reports of Iran’s internal politics are to be believed. I’m not schooled in military arts, but my sense is that for the most part geopolitics is driven by the military situation on the ground. We in the West must not shrink from unconditional victory as the condition precedent for lasting peace.

7/30/2006 07:31:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Well, a (Shiite?) mob in Beirut is attacking Beirut's UN HQ building over Qana, and Haifa has not been hit in three or four days now (the long-range missiles are now hitting in open fields to the north, near Acre, sez Fox correspondent).

Why would it be amazing if world opinion is ready to put the blame for Qana where the blame for Qana in truth exists?

What if "4th generation warfare" where the very environment itself rises against the stranger, creates in the end nothing but "No Man's Land"?

7/30/2006 07:33:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Stupid military tactics by Israel produced an errant bomb attack that kills fifty plus civilians, half-children. For the record that ties the 56 people, including the 4 bombers, who were killed in the 7 July 2005 London terroristic train bombings. If this was done in support of ground troops in a pitched battle there would be a difference. The war on terror and in particular against Hezbollah is ideological and political in nature. Israel is losing this is spades. They are fighting a stupid inept military campaign and are impressing no one especially Hezbollah. They are not only killing innocents but in the long run will wind up causing more Israeli deaths because they fear to fight this war with ground troops. How can you defend this?

7/30/2006 07:35:00 AM  
Blogger geistern said...

Somewhat off topic, but a thought triggered by probably too much surfing. At some point even the most intelligent, educated, civilized person falls back onto the hard wired programming built into all living things. Run or fight. One of the things I have noticed recently in the blogosphere (and among the the wildly liberal friends that I hang with), is a gradual hardening of hearts with respect to the constant leftist drumbeat of hate and self loathing. If I were a Islamofacist (or leftist for that matter), I would start to think long and hard about the implication of the slow awakening of sleeping dogs and the long, cold speculative stares that are coming my way. Maybe wishful thinking on my part. Maybe not.

7/30/2006 07:40:00 AM  
Blogger Woman Catholic said...

spelunker said:

IDF must be aggressive in its PR campaign. It must place the blame squarely on the cowards who hide among the people such that attacks are visited upon the innocents. The IDF must state in unapologetic tones that wherever Hez goes, wherever it hides the IDF’s bombs and bullets will follow. In so doing, the IDF will aim to cause indigenous populations to think, at least momentarily, that proximity, to Hez can get you killed.

I wonder what the Hezbollah were doing having 40 children stay overnight at a ground-to-ground missile site anyway? Was it Take Your Kid To Work Day?

In related news about that amazing gun in Seattle that shot six Jewish women all by itself, it turns out that it hid behind a potted plant in a Jewish charity's foyer and forced its way through a security door by holding itself to a 13-year-old girl's head.

7/30/2006 07:42:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

teresita, thank you for being born.

7/30/2006 07:53:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...


Hizbullah: We won't ignore massacre

Terror groups threaten to avenge what they refer to as 'Qana village massacre.' Iranian president says, 'US and Britain must pay the bill for the Zionist regime's crimes'
Ali Waked

The Hizbullah organization threatened revenge following the Israel Defense Forces' air strike in the southern Lebanese village of Qana. According to sources in Lebanon, more than 50 people were killed in the bombing, including more than 20 children.

"We will not ignore the shocking massacre," the organization said in a statement.

Hamas also released a statement, according to which all possibilities are open for a Palestinian and Lebanese resistance following what was dubbed "the Qana village massacre."

my update: hamas and hezbollah will fire rockets to destroy israel! lions, tigers & bears, oh my, lions tigers & bears, oh my

will we hear the UN condemn hezbollah? naw..

will we see hoards of moslems lighting themselves on fire? (one could hope)

will we see islamic protest over the seattle shootings? (when pigs are kosher)

will we see the arabs seek a peace treaty? (dont hold your breath)

News reports that israel has videos of the qana site showing kassams being stored there (shh dont tell the truth it only hurts the arab brain)

History will not be kind to mr koffi, or shall we say deja vu? Mr U Thant is see you all over again! AMERICA push for a ceasefire to stop israeli carnage against those innocent arab troops)

the more things change the more the stay the same...

7/30/2006 07:54:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

But we are so civilized now. We have the cultural history of terror and it has softened our hearts and taken our collective edge. The rewriting of history is the greatest tool for the tyrants of cultural sensitivity because such stories only underscores the manifest evil of our ways.

The Jihadi’s have seen our soft underbelly and now want to rend it asunder. We are a culture that has lost it’s will to survive. Our young have been spoon fed the most vicious of lies and we take it because the preaching of hate and intolerance is protected.

Only might makes right and the Jihadi’s are proud to use it to their advantage. The war started in one summer in 1968 in Chicago and it won’t be over until the self-indulgent, self-proclaimed bearers of legitimacy die a decrepit, lingering death, or we the hope of our own destinies and as protectors of our own progeny learn to ignore that generation’s delusions and conceit and stand up for what is good and right. The opening shot in that war against the West began with the refrain; “We will change the world, rearrange the world.” But such syrupy sentimentality, knee jerk reaction against the “man”, can only play to our enemies strengths, for if the “man” doesn’t stand up to the Nihilism of Islamic Jihad, then who?

Culture war now!

7/30/2006 07:55:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

desert rat,

You do have to love that White House call for "restraint". No one will be able to accuse Mr. Bush of violating Swift's rule: "When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

At least Chirac had the guts to do his own dirty work.

I would not want Lt. Bush covering my "6".

7/30/2006 07:58:00 AM  
Blogger Tamquam Leo Rugiens said...

"How does it feel to [trigger a weapon in war]?"
I was on a destroyer in Vietnam in 1972 - 73. Our duties included offshore artillery support for the Marines near the DMZ, Point Alpha. This was my first experience of war. I was very concious of the fact that what we were doing was trying to kill Vietcong or NVA, and aware that civilians might be killed as well. The "peace" movement was in full swing at that time. I knew full well that I was going to be participating in acts of killing people I would never see, but I did not give it a great deal of thought at that point, there was too much other stuff to occupy my attention.
Until the first time we were called to live fire on a real target. I was in the upper handling room, shell hoist operator. When the order was given to fire and my duty required me to place another shell in the hoist, I was at that moment piercingly aware that I was participating in an act of killing another human being, and that killing human beings was a terrible, terrible act that should never happen.
For a moment I considered refusing the order and walking out of the handling room. I did not do that. Instead, and this will remain part of me forever, I turned my awareness away from the fact that the people we (I!) would shortly be killing were human beings. I placed a filter over these men so that I now would only know them as targets, not a men; I deliberately occluded their humanity. Thus I was once again able to smoothly enter into the routine my training had grooved into me and hurl violent death at targets as often as required with easy efficiency.
I noticed that after that I and my shipmates developed a macabre sense of humor in regard to the enemy, a lot of which focused on denigrating and dehumanizing him.
I thought at the time that since I had deliberately diabled a part of my moral psyche that once the war was over I would simply re-enable it and I'd be whole once again. I tried, it didn't work (which shocked me). I know and accept that for as long I live I will know how, at a moment's notice, to efface the humanity of another and wreak upon him deadly violence. I will never unlearn how to kill. I know and accept this, but it is not comfortable a knowledge, nor will it ever be.
It is a secret which those who love me must never be allowed to know. But it is a secret of the ultimate weapon to be used only in the last ditch defense of my family, my counrty or my civilization. This man knows how to de-face you, reduce you to a target and to strike you with any and all means to assure your destruction. This man knows how to kill.
God help me.

7/30/2006 08:00:00 AM  
Blogger Juan Golblado said...

Israel has to wage a war for public opinion. After Qana it should have immediately hit out with a press release outlining why Hezbullah was to blame for it.

It should be using its technology (e.g. its drones and its video cameras) and its intelligence assets to document convincingly how Hezbullah sets up civilians for the kill.

This situation endangers everybody in the West. See Hezbullah's statement that "we will not foget this massacre". Remember its operatives across the world. See Iran's similar statements and remember how much money it has to put into terrorist attacks across the civilized world.

Take note that all the anti-westerners living in the west and elsewhere will accept these terrorist attacks in the face of their belief that the west is heedlessly killing innocent civilians -- and our own protectors will drop their guard.

We've got to have some investigative reporting out of Lebanon, now! And we're not getting it. The journalists who are there are so far up Hezbullah's ass it's no wonder they stink.

7/30/2006 08:05:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...


This will be a public relations nightmare, helped substantially by that fool in the White House.

trish is right: Israel must cut its umbilical cord to Momma America. I suggest that Israel become a rogue nation, advertising that by incinerating some convenient neighbor. Dr. Rice would then be more accommodating.

I'm just venting, of course, but one must have a dream.

7/30/2006 08:11:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Steyn isn't being a defeatist. He is pointing out the most glaring defects of post modern liberalism - the inability of post modern society to define a heirachy of values. If you accept that a cease-fire is the greatest good that can be achieved in war then that is what should be done and to hell with the consequences, if consequences are ever considered at all.

When cultural self preservation is lower on the totem pole than cultural understanding you know you have a problem - or maybe you you don't know - and that's the problem.

7/30/2006 08:16:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

I am beginning to ‘embrace’ massacre. It is our fear of inflicting harm that denudes our will to survive.

“I placed a filter over these men so that I now would only know them as targets, not a men; I deliberately occluded their humanity.”

The Hezbollah have taken to heart the earnest Arab belief that “Jews” are descended from monkeys and pigs.
“Ahmadinejad conceded that the task of avoiding annihilation by Israeli troops was daunting, but told thousands of demonstrators gathered in the capital, Tehran, that a way would be found to strike at Israel's "soft underbelly of women and children."
In related news, Hamas released a statement asserting that Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit, who was kidnapped, was alive and being treated "in accordance with Islamic principles." These principles are believed to include hourly threats of beheading and reminders that, according to the Koran, Jews are monkeys and pigs.”

Kill more, faster please.

7/30/2006 08:17:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

fair and [un]balanced:

The confederacy of dunces grows - Olmert, Halutz and Peretz apologize for Qana deaths -

7/30/2006 08:26:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

The exorcism of the ghosts of Qana
Anshel Pfeffer, THE JERUSALEM POST Jul. 30, 2006

"Of course I realize that one mistake by me can change the entire course of this war," said Col. A, an pilot at Ramat David IAF base, when asked whether he was worried that a badly aimed bomb from his F-16 might cause a repetition of the mistaken bombing of a refugee area at Qana in April 1996 that left 102 civilians killed and forced the government of Shimon Peres to end Operation "Grapes of Wrath." But this time around, ten years later, same place and ostensibly same circumstances, Ehud Olmert's government is set on changing the precedent.

Unlike the hapless Peres a decade ago, worried about the effect the bombing would have on Israeli Arabs on the elections only two months away (and who ironically this time was on his way to present Israel's case in the US as the incident took place) Ehud Olmert is determined not to allow Sunday morning's bombing of a building packed with refugees in Qana, causing about 50 deaths, to reaffirm the last Qana precedent. Olmert and the rest of Israel's leadership were prepared this time around to ward of the ghosts of Qana, the assumption was that a disaster of similar proportions was probably just a matter of time and as a result his reaction was swift. There was no mistake here, Olmert emphasized at the weekly cabinet meeting, the building had been targeted as a shelter of Hizbullah Katyusha launchers and civilians had been warned to leave days ago, and there was no question of agreeing to a premature ceasefire and ending the military offensive earlier because of the incident.

But Olmert's determination might not be enough now. The bottom line that had seemed to emerge from his meeting with Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, the previous night, was that Israel had another week or so to attack Hizbullah while the details of the ceasefire and multinational force supposed to implement were cobbled together at the United Nations in New York. Meanwhile the US and also Britain was to have continued shielding Israel from international pressure to end the fighting. The Qana bombing might change all that now. Rice's first reaction while still in Jerusalem was to cancel what would have probably been a pointless visit to Beirut, under the present circumstances and say that "we want a cease-fire as soon as possible."

Does that mean that the US is changing its policy? Rice's other words left her with open options either way. "We are also pushing for an urgent end to the current hostilities, but the views of the parties on how to achieve this are different" she also said and acknowledged that warfare in civilian areas "is extremely difficult and "unfortunately has awful consequences sometimes." So perhaps she's still willing to give Israel breathing space.

For the government to withstand the already considerable international pressure, which will now only intensify, to immediately call off the offensive, it will have to decide that it's standing by the two core principles that have guided it over the last two and a half weeks. First, that this time a high death-toll or the fear of it, on either side, won't bring this operation to a premature end, as "Grapes of Wrath" was after Qana and Operation Accountability in 1993, before the main objective, bringing an end to Hizbullah's armed presence in South Lebanon, is achieved. The second principle, one decided upon by the self-styled "man of peace" Defense Minister Amir Peretz, that civilians shielding Hizbullah fighters and missiles could no longer be regarded as uninvolved innocents.

Resulting of these principles are the two major differences between the 1996 and the 2006 Qana bombings. "Grapes of Wrath" was a relatively limited campaign based on artillery and air-force, but this time Israel has invested so much more in a many times larger operation that it just can't afford to end it without a tangible gain. Furthermore, unlike in 1996, when an errant artillery-shell had been the cause of the carnage, this time it was an accurate airborne bombing, meant for that very building. Therefore Israel is not going to apologize and Olmert, Peretz and the IDF will continue to insist that Hizbullah were launching Katyushas and then sheltering within the target, the civilian deaths are regrettable, but totally the Hizbullah's responsibility. They should not be allowed to benefit from their policy of hiding behind civilians.

The IDF will be pressed to present some kind of visual proof of Hizbullah operating around the building, even though it probably won't convince the international media, much less foreign governments, if produced promptly it might influence the tone a bit and buy a few hour of respite. Ultimately, it will be Condoleeza Rice and George Bush who decide whether Israel will be allowed to exorcise the ghosts of Qana.


And in case anyone missed it, Olmert and Peretz have indeed apologized.

7/30/2006 08:28:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Instapundit points to photos of Hez guys in civilian clothes as Wretchard mentioned, with heavy AA guns in regular neighborhoods. This is clear evidence of human malignancy purposely infecting society, using free will to cause death to the innocents around them.
Photos that damn Hezbollah

Over at LGF, they are hosting a streaming movie (amazing, it's on Google! Someone must be asleep at the switch.)
Obsession: what the war on terror is really about

These inhuman Islamofascist tactics are what lead to Dresden, Hiroshima, Rolling Thunder. Strangest of all, it's only Israel and America who get called out for this response, while Islamofascists kill civilians at will with only passing reproach by "liberals."

7/30/2006 08:28:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Tamquam Leo Rugiens. No. God help the people to your left and right who are relying on you to do your job.

7/30/2006 08:29:00 AM  
Blogger Voyager said...

They are fighting a stupid inept military campaign and are impressing no one especially Hezbollah.

How could anyone knows what "impresses" Hezbollah ? why would anyone care what "impresses" Hezbollah ?

Is this just hyperbole as usual ?

So many comments with wild content not really relevant to a man with a rifle trying to sweep out another man with a rifle or RPG. It is so easy from the air, but the boots on the ground are the bit noone has patience for in this video-game world

7/30/2006 08:29:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

"When cultural self preservation is lower on the totem pole than cultural understanding you know you have a problem ..."

Which, PB is how the US Government treats the souther frontier.
I recall you saying it was not the Federals job to secure the border, that the lawlessness was a local problem.
You, yourself, have accepted defeat in the WS Culture wars, vis a vie respect for Immigration Law.
Then wonder why Israel follows suit.

7/30/2006 08:30:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

Peterb,I agree that Stein isn't being a defeatist. He is merely stating truth: We know we could win any of these military conflicts hands down (or with one hand tied behind our back) and so that isn't the problem. The problem is we know we can win anytime we want to. The problem is there isn't enough wanting to. We feel guilt knowing the battle would be so one-sided.

I predict things will change and that psychological block, given enough provocation, will dissolve and then our enemies will rue the day they even thought about taking us on.

7/30/2006 08:31:00 AM  
Blogger 3Case said...

"But killing on a huge scale must take place, for this is a war of conquest. Only one can be left standing and it can't be the Islamic faith."

Slaughter...what is necessary is the slaughter of Islamo-fascists and those who would be near them. That is the sad primal requirement. The West has cossetted itself so that it will not see that requirement because it is too ugly. The Islamo-fascists nurse and take advantage of that aversion and the hesitance that accompanies it.

A friend had a stress reaction to 9/11 and, given his cardiac history, landed in the hospital. I went to visit him on 9/14 to talk.

He allowed as to how he had grown up with no sense of the military and what it entailed. I told him:

1. We have the people.
2. We have the technology.
3. We have the people to run the technology.
4. HOWEVER, do NOT get squeamish when we get to applying it all; that is the biggest danger.

...and here we are dealing with the squeamish being used by the evil.

On a happier note: I watched "Jackass: The Movie" early this morning...the Islamo-fascists are so screwed if they ever manage to tilt the popular consensus to our operating our military at full throtle....

7/30/2006 08:33:00 AM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...


The war started in one summer in 1968 in Chicago and it won’t be over until the self-indulgent, self-proclaimed bearers of legitimacy...

Being one of those (former) "self-indulgent, self-proclaimed bearers of legitimacy" myself, who has grown wiser, but who was once in the thick of the idiocy, I think those who really believe in the Chicago '68 nonsense are a minority of less than 10% of our population, a percentage that decreases exponentially, and daily.

Unfortunately, as you will remind me, they have power in our elites beyond their numbers.

We are still, however, living in a republic.

Jamie Irons

7/30/2006 08:38:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

PB, I think you read Tamquam all wrong. He did the job and will do it again. But right on Stein--he's no more a defeatist than anyone else who honestly ridicules our cherished assumptions about good intentions.

7/30/2006 08:38:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Seems the Israeli have some video, showing rockets launched from atop the targeted building. It will make no difference to the trends.

Video never lies, Obi Wan Knobe told us so. Mr Moore agrees.

7/30/2006 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

You misrepresent me but it's too off topic to care.

You're probably right but I'm flat out of touchy-feely for the day.

7/30/2006 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

The Israeli Ambassador to the UN said they had a film showing a missile launcher next to a three story building "similar" to the building hit. That should be very helpful.

7/30/2006 09:00:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

fox news: fiece outrage...

burning paper flags,

slamming glass doors..

lions, tigers & bears oh my...

7/30/2006 09:02:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

"Instapundit points to photos of Hez guys in civilian clothes as Wretchard mentioned, with heavy AA guns in regular neighborhoods. This is clear evidence of human malignancy purposely infecting society, using free will to cause death to the innocents around them."

- tony

It's clear evidence that HB has no intention of making their enemy's job any easier for them, or less dilemma-ridden than it already is.

That's war for ya.

7/30/2006 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Black spots move diagonaly across the screen.
Easily produced with Final Cut Pro.

Won't change a thing, 2164

7/30/2006 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger hdgreene said...

I was out walking the other day and passed by an "Anti Israel Fighting Back" Rally (I live in Ohio so it wasn't large. I think if the Labanese community had shown it would have been mcuh larger). There were Palestinian flags and Lebanon Flags and peace symbol flags.

The rally was, as my old Marxist friends might put it, "objectively pro Hezbollah." The thought occurred to me that the Palestinians would gladly sacrifice Lebanon to get at Israel -- even for a few days of bad press.

And that is it. The same arguments made against Israel's right to exist are used against Lebanon (it's an artificial construct of European imperialism, set up to benefit a favored and collaborating minority -- Christian, in this case).

Syria still claims Lebanon. At least Israel occupies Israel. Lebanon does not even occupy Lebanon. They better get busy or they will soon be a province of Syria.

7/30/2006 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

IDF presser on Qana coming up on Fox. Minutes away, I take it.

7/30/2006 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger Mike H. said...

The enemy is not human.
You don't want to know the enemy.
The enemy eats little babies.
Believe all of these things and you win.

The enemy is not a killer of kids.
The enemy is trying to create jobs for himself.
The enemy Hates having to kill our people.
Believe all these things and the enemy wins.

If your only fire is for a dune buggy race or a day at the beach or an intellectual discourse, then the enemy owns you

7/30/2006 09:15:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

desert rat,

In the words of that great Jewish prophet Paul Simon, "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

No amount of boot licking, genuflecting, or posterior polishing by the administration will change a thing.

Just for giggles, the administration might assume a brutally unapologetic defense of an ally. Yeah, I know, "when pigs fly."

7/30/2006 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Via Roger Simon:

The Pictures That Damn Hezbullah

Jamie Irons

7/30/2006 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

rat, altered video is easily discovered by pro image analysts. Of course, I reqalize you mean that no one in the street will care to check on the Hez 'altered video' claim coming.

7/30/2006 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

The platitudinous sector of the US population has,for the last thirty years made, "Do it for the children" a cant so disproportionate to it's end that war debates include, as a major hub, "the children".
This so distorts the meaning of war as to make sure losers of those who embrace the "Do it for the children" dictum.
It is a hard fact that civilians and especially children die in wars, but it is UNAVOIDABLE, unless you choose at the outset to lose.
If the islamofascists were lobbing rockets by the score onto US territory I would personally enjoy the slaughter of their progeny. Your enemy must die by the ten thousand score and then again that many. Let no man,woman, or child live under the Quran since they choose to war on those who eschew their bastard faith.

7/30/2006 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger redaktør said...

The political and military establishment in Israel are working with great harmony and with deep intelligence. Even Netanyahu is onboard. Jumblat has called Nasrallah a modern day Hitler that brought nothing but death and destruction on Lebanon. Qana is as much a PR victory for Israel in Lebanon as it is a PR victory for Hizbollah with Ben Diddleman of CNN.

7/30/2006 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Now I see that Tony beat me to the "Pictures That Damn Hezbullah" citation.


Well, perhaps it needs to be called to our attention more than once.


Jamie Irons

7/30/2006 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Exactly, buddy.
Again the "West" is promoting "legalisms". Evidence and justifications to be debated.

Rather than going to War, the Israeli are on a macro SWAT raid, not fighting a war. The US model that has failed in Iraq, replayed in Lebanon

7/30/2006 09:22:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Buddy, IDF presser says,

We are neutralizing Hezbollah, we are herding them...

That's a direct quote. I wonder where they are herding them to? Tyre?

7/30/2006 09:26:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I heard "hurting" them, Ari.

7/30/2006 09:31:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Trish sez That's war for ya.

That's cancer for ya:

"The abnormal and uncontrolled division of cells which may go on to invade and destroy surrounding tissues."

7/30/2006 09:32:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

Pawns of War or Willing Participants?

I'm hardened by too many years of watching Palestinians fire from the cover of young stone throwers; which is typical of he muslim style of warfare. Well, why not, after all, paradise awaits.

Also, I seen too many images of columns of civilians fleeing on foot before advancing armies.

I'm sorry.

7/30/2006 09:34:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

I wonder at the effectiveness of Hezbollah's "civilian" strategy. I know it gets the international community upset and speaking louder. I know it makes many at this blog start whining, projecting an imminent Israeli defeat because France issues a condemnation or because Bush calls for "restraint" -- as if those statements aren't diplomatically and domestically necessary and can only mean we're about to stop the fighting. But apart from those atmospheric effects, I don't think the deaths in Qana change anything.

As had been stated ad nauseam, over the next few days Israel will escalate. This means more deaths, and, because of the way Hezbollah fights, more civilian deaths. The Israelis know this. They have planned accordingly. Hezbollah's going to take it right in the ass over the next week or so, and no amount of dead human shields is going to make a difference.

No difference whatsoever.


Okay, that makes sense. "Herding" seemed like giving away too much.

7/30/2006 09:34:00 AM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

Bravo by the way on bring to the blog the Nicomachean Ethics of Aristotle...always a good read.

7/30/2006 09:38:00 AM  
Blogger gumshoe1 said...

"Qana is as much a PR victory for Israel in Lebanon as it is a PR victory for Hizbollah with Ben Diddleman of CNN."

as i read that,
suddenly the rootless,
Eason Jordan surfaced.

Nasrallah is much the same...
the Iranians below the mullah- level don't claim him.

7/30/2006 09:41:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Not to be too academic, Ari, but "herding" is also liguistically anathematic. Westerners "move" people; mongol hordes "herd" people.

7/30/2006 09:45:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

But 'herding' Hezbollah does have a nice ring to it, especially if it's to slaughter.

7/30/2006 09:48:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

In 1982 the paragon of Islamic virtue Arafat established a PLO enclave in South Beirut. The IDF rolled into town shortly thereafter. The PLO set up firing positions on just about every religious and humanitarian and civilian occupied building they could get to. At least the reporters in 1982 commented on this behavior. Apparently it's not even worth a mention today.

Hizbu'allah today largely comprises the progeny of these upstanding individuals who have used their UN handouts wisely in contribution to the civilizational achivements of Palestinian culture.

The international peacekeeping force of the day shipped Arafat off to Triploi, Hizbu'allah off to the Bekaa, and reality to hell before skedaddling out of the line of fire. If the present trend continues Italy will win the World Cup in 2030, and the United Nations, having learned that apartment buildings are inadequate, will have helped solve the problem by constructing fortified firing positions for the next generation of enlightened Farsi speaking Palestinians.

7/30/2006 09:50:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

No, buddy, that's war. The militarily weaker level the playing field by doing pretty much what HB is doing. Why do you think guerillas were invented?

7/30/2006 09:52:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Right, it surely does, but in deciphering, you have to ask whether anyone verbally adept enough to rise to spokesman for the IDF would use such an electrically-charged word.

Euphemism, I phemisn, we ALL phenism!

7/30/2006 09:52:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...


Words have an effect. It will not be lost on Hezbollah/Lebanon/Syria/Iran that Mr. Bush has criticized Israel implicitly. This will encourage Hezbollah et al to stay in the fray beyond what might have otherwise been the case.

Why Mr. Bush needs to join in the chorus of Euroweiners demands some explanation, don't you think? Undermining the integrity of an ally cannot be helpful to America’s interests short or long term.

There is a time and place for subtlety. There is also a time and place for unflinching courage. The White House’s (I wish my house could talk, but I have to do that) sissy admonition of “restraint”, is neither subtle nor courageous.

7/30/2006 09:52:00 AM  
Blogger geoffgo said...

Obsession: HT LGF Obsession%A+What+The+War+on+Terror +Is+Really+About&hl=en

Sorry about the link.

7/30/2006 09:56:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Allen, the White House also is trying to keep the kingdoms off Israel's back--ergo has to give the kings something to work with. I get your point, but, the kingdoms are facts on the ground. USA has to keep at least a deniability factor in the ideational war between "honest broker" and "Israeli ally".

7/30/2006 10:03:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...


Who you callin' "buddy?"

We phemism, cancer is an apt analogy.

7/30/2006 10:04:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Words have effect.

But what's the effect? Does the call for restraint change whatever deal Rice made with Olmert yesterday?

Nope. So don't worry about it. It's a political and diplomatic calculation, as Buddy pointed out. We've been saying it from the beginning, so when something bad like this happens we can say, "Well, we did tell them to use restraint." It's of no real-world consequence.

Israel will continue to attack, and if Hezbollah thinks that victory is close, so much the better.

(By the way, if I'm wrong, I will stop commenting on world affairs).

And I just heard that the 40 children killed were handicapped. That's the Lebanese line, at least. A random gathering of 40 handicapped children.

7/30/2006 10:04:00 AM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...

i want to thank allen and desert rat for their support.

it's funny how everyone assumes the IDF has some master plan tht takes weeks to unfold and will trap hezbollah in a modern day falaise pocket!

Just like the Pentagon has some master plan to defeat the Iraqi terrorists, who are mere babies compared to Hezbollah and their Pasdaran sponsors.

there's absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever. In fact the evidence is all to the contrary. Anyone who knows the IDF, knows Israeli military doctrine and history knows that fast, decisive victories are policy. Israel doesn't mess around for 3 weeks and shape the battlefield. Israel doesn't sit back and take 150 rockets a day, the amount getting greater by the day. Not if she can stop it.

Perhaps this is all a plan to get HB to go all in and nail TA and kill 50-100 Israelis so Israel will have the pretext they feel they need to wipe out HB and their Syrian sponsors. They couldn't do it with 1-2 civilians dying per day and minimal damage from the katyushas. But if a fajr or zilzal takes out hundreds in TA, they will have no choice but to lay down the hammer and bring out the Jehrico IIs.

That makes more sense than some of these fantastic Larry Bond/Tom Clancy like scenarios I've seen here

7/30/2006 10:09:00 AM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

Buddy Larsen said

USA has to keep at least a deniability factor in the ideational war between "honest broker" and "Israeli ally".

Buddy do you have a particular country or group in mind that believes the US is an "honest broker" and not an Israeli ally?

7/30/2006 10:11:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Having said that, Allen, if it is indeed time to split the sheet, then you are right all the way.

But, remember, this is a political/military crisis which could but hasn't yet become a financial/economic/trade crisis.

Can you see how it would possibly aid Israel--or any of the good guys, to repeat the 1973 oil embargo?

The answer to that depends on whether or not it is time to go to the mattresses or not.

7/30/2006 10:11:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

But Sarah, the Bush does have a master plan for defeating the terrorists in Iraq.

It's right here.

7/30/2006 10:13:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The "kings", funders of Wahabbai Radicalism. We have to "give" them something, buddy?

Why, but to placate their "street"?
I am sure that the people in the KSA are hanging on Mr Bush's every word, in the latest statement.

The Radical's goal of splitting the populous from the "kings" is almost within reach. The death of each additional child, justified or not, widens that gap.

If the IDF had succeeded in their original timeline, the "kings" would have held firm, with US.
The lack of success by the IDF, in destroying HB and stopping the rockets, will continue to weaken the "kings" in their respective countries, if they remain with US.

Our Wahabbist allies weaken by each day of this continued SWAT raid.


7/30/2006 10:14:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Buddy the world would be a better place if the phrase "honest broker" were tossed on the trash heap. What is so terrible about the President of the United States saying that we ally ourselves to peoples who embrace democratic institutions, the rule of law, emancipation of women, and free market economies?

In a world where right and wrong have no meaning a little clarity about where the USA stands in the world would go a long way.

7/30/2006 10:17:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Habu, what I mean is, through USA, some regimes which cannot talk with Israel--because of their domestic oppo--can talk with Israel. A valuable function, unless everything goes to sh*t--in which case it has been lipstick on a corpse.

7/30/2006 10:19:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Thanks, aristide.
You have provide Proof Positive that after 3.5 years Mr bush's Policy is, to date, a failure

"... all citizens must have their rights protected ..."

10,000 Iraqis have lost ALL their "Rights" in the last 90 days/
They are dead in the "not a Civil War" political & sectarian violence.

7/30/2006 10:20:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

Sorry, tony.

My point is the HB is doing what HB can do to improve its odds in a fight against a more powerful force. It really is as simple as that.

Hell, if I were them I'd certainly be locating in orphanages, schools for the blind, charity hospitals, and old folks homes.

Upping the ante, that's all.

Like Hulutz might have said of dropping that bomb, "It's just business."

7/30/2006 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger Chris said...

Hap Halloran of the Rover Boys Express, of course. A superb post, wretchard.

7/30/2006 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...


on a scale of 1-100, what # would you honestly give that plan a chance of succeedding?

20? 10? 5?

You win wars by defeating the enemy's capacity to fight and his will to fight. We haven't touched his capacity because his capacity in Iran and Syria and the Bekka Valley and elsewhere. It ian't in Baghdad. How many fighters pour across the borders of Iraq everyday? how many do we kill? have we made a dent in their personnell at all?

how much materiel do Iran and Syria pour across the border, ship in diplomatic bag?

What happened to the axis of evil? to being with us or with the terrorists? to being held to account?

Let me ask everyone this: Does anyonehere think that President Bush and PM Blair would ever issue a joint statement calling for the unconditional surrender of Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and their friends, and that the US Congress would pledge ALL resources until that goal is achieved?

Does anyone here honestly believe that Bush and Blair are willing to go all in a la FDR/Truman and Sir Winston?

Does anyone believe that Bush and Blair are willing to see millions of dead enemy, his cities in utter ruin, and his people without food or shelter?

Does anyone here believe that Bush or Blair would ever go Nuclear if it was necessary to win?

Does anyone here believe Iran's nuclear program will be stopped by Jan 2009?

I suspect deep down, we all know that the answer to all of the above questions is "NO".

7/30/2006 10:22:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

If the IDF had succeeded in their original timeline, the "kings" would have held firm, with US.

And which timeline was that? The one you and Ralph Peters wanted?

Now don't get me wrong about what I'm saying. It is worrisome what is going on with international opinion. If we and the Israelis don't hold firm to our position that the fault for the civilian casualties lies with Hezbollah, the international community would have all but codified the invincibility of terrorists in war.

7/30/2006 10:23:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Complete clarity = total war. Are we prepared?

7/30/2006 10:25:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The Original timeline of "one or two weeks", announced by the Israeki at the beginning.
Supported by the White House and 10 Downing.

Only now we are at three weeks and the KSA, the US's MOST IMPORTANT economic ally is moving from yhe "flipped" column to it's historic mode.

A week ago we were discussing "flipping" Syria. Now it is our Allies that are flipping.

7/30/2006 10:28:00 AM  
Blogger rufus said...

Tamquam, you did your job, and "Saved My Life." Now I have a Grand-son. Maybe, some day he will save Your Grand-son's life.

It's called Survival.

7/30/2006 10:32:00 AM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...


Did you see the news of the 5B arms deal with KSA and others? After this sorry display, the IDF should best start looking elsewhere. Uncle Sam will not be giving them toys to play with if they've shown they can't use them effectively.

I think we're soon about to find out the truth about the emperor and his garments.

7/30/2006 10:34:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Only now we are at three weeks and the KSA, the US's MOST IMPORTANT economic ally is moving from yhe "flipped" column to it's historic mode.

Are they mobilizing troops? Or are they just issuing statements?

Are we surprised that they would condemn Israel? Disappointed?

7/30/2006 10:35:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The Sauds, aristide, mobilize Money, the most effective of forces in the US, not troops.

Watch as they mobilize their foot soldiers, Mr Scrowcroft fired, just yesterday, one of the first of their volleys.

7/30/2006 10:40:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Geez. I wish the IAF would put a 2,000 lbr. down the chimney of the Iranian embassy. I don't even care if Naziforallah is there. I could use the entertainment value from the Mullahs explanation about embassies being sovereign territory.

7/30/2006 10:40:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...


re : (By the way, if I'm wrong, I will stop commenting on world affairs).

Please! Now who is overreacting? G-d forbid.

I have no idea what was agreed at the meeting of Dr. Rice and Mr. Olmert. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Hezbollah is the aggressor. Lebanese elites have been accessories after the fact. Hence, the perception that the US must chastise Israel may go a long way to explaining why the ME conflict has lasted decades.

7/30/2006 10:40:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

dear sarah,

btw a great Jewish BIBLICAL name...

you say: After this sorry display, the IDF should best start looking elsewhere. Uncle Sam will not be giving them toys to play with if they've shown they can't use them effectively.

again, how do you KNOW actually what has been hit?

again, if they were using the world's standard weapons of cities to cities bombing, you would have seen 10,000 dead by now, it's only because israel and the USA JOINTLY develop and deploy advanced weapon SYSTEMS that civilian KIA & WIA are so low.

sarah: I think we're soon about to find out the truth about the emperor and his garments.

Actually the truth? Is simple America and Israel don't want to be mass murderers, whereas the iranians, arab league, islamic peoples would gleefully mass murder us if given the chance.

you so easily write off israel as if it was a rounded error... don't underestimate the israeli fortitude, they will not go quietly into the night just to wait to be attacked again.

Amazing name, it's a shame you dont seem to share Sarah's balls when it comes to the offspring of hagar...

7/30/2006 10:41:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

5 billion for KSA in russia arms...

I saw that movie before...

all i can say is good...

7/30/2006 10:43:00 AM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...


History is resplendent with examples of events that precipitate actions unthinkable only moments before.

9-11 have any meaning?

Of course it does and the world reacted in ways that your queries could not have had a positive reponse to. And yet we have a war of global scope and nuclear is only an Iran or North Korea away.

So yes I can imagine a call for unconditional surrender. I can imagine a nuclear exchange. Yes to other questions asked.

9-11 was the latest reminder.

7/30/2006 10:45:00 AM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...

it's 5B in US arms, not Russian. 5B in Abrams M2s, Bradleys, top level US stuff.

what is occupation, just give me any evidence that Israel is winning or even close to winning. anything you have at all would be appreciated. not these fantastic master plan theories that Hezbollah is headed into some falaise pocket type trap.

All their guys are north of Beirut, in the Bekka, or in Syria. They have a few guys in the south with their toys dispersed in bunkers, homes and throughout the area.

The number of rockets they launch has increased not decreased.

Their manpower has not been diminished at all, in fact it has been augmented.

Any materiel losses have been and will continue to be made good by Tehran and Damascus.

We haven't even gotten to the IRGC guys.

There is really no evidence at all of any Israeli victory. But you can keep believing it if you want to.

7/30/2006 10:49:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Some of the mob ransacking the UN bldng in Beirut right now are carrying the red hammer & sickle banner. Just saw it on tv.

7/30/2006 10:51:00 AM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...

habu 3,

i agree. I said the other day that unfortunately it will take another 9/11 or worse before the necessary steps will be taken and that is a shame becuase they should have been taken before thousands more are dead due to our leader's mistakes.

I think ther will need to be an event on a greater scale than 9/11, and most likely WMD used in the US before the unconditioanl surrender and declaration of war is made.

I still don't think Sush and Blair are the right guys to do it, although I have more confidence in Bush than in Blair. Blair is a fop. The man isn't a leader, he's an appeaser. Just as he appeased and surrendered to Gerry Adams and Marty McGuinness, he'll appease and genuflect before Ahmadinejad and Nasrallah and Khameini.

Bush still has that fight in him , the fight we saw in 01-03 and I think he'd do what was necessary if the hit the fan

7/30/2006 10:53:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

And Mr Chavez is in Tehran, buddy.

But it don't mean nothin'

Just another "local" conflict.
Per the Supremes, Congress and the President. It's the Law, you know.

Only Newt and Howard Stern thinks it's WWIII, and neither of them are in Government.

7/30/2006 10:55:00 AM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...


Gingrich/Stern in 08?

7/30/2006 10:56:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Sarah, please. If Israel has to attack the Iran nuke sites, the Iranian deterrent--a large part of it anyway--is kaput now. This might help the free-world stop the nuke program short of war.

7/30/2006 10:57:00 AM  
Blogger rufus said...

Sarah, please quit rewriting U.S. (and British) History. Start with Churchill. He told'em what was coming, and they kicked him out of government. It arrived, they brought him back for awhile, he made a few speeches, and they fired him before the war was over.

FDR Did Not enter WWII until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Germans Declared War on us.

Truman was afraid of bringing China and Russia into the war, and we've been stuck there for almost 60 years. He fired the General that wanted "To Win."

7/30/2006 10:59:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Israel attack the Iranian nuke sites, buddy?
Pass the pipe.

400 sorties a day and they cannot suppress attacks on their homeland.
Imagine them trying to take on 300+ harden targets, hundreds of miles away.

Not to likely to be a success, like Lebanon.

7/30/2006 11:00:00 AM  
Blogger rufus said...

BTW, FDR's "Total Victory" was a "Slam Dunk." Once the Russians had bled Germany dry, and we got onto Normandy, it was over.

7/30/2006 11:01:00 AM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...


How is their deterrent kaput?

Hezbollah has shown they can rain down rockets on Israel whenevr they want in whatever amount they want.

Tehrna and Damscus have already replensihed their stocks.

How is their deterrent kaput?

7/30/2006 11:02:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

That's not to say it *should* be stopped short of war. Just, trying to stop the Iran program short of war is the only *next* option--at this point, politically, in the USA.

7/30/2006 11:03:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Yo What Is,

Sarah Weddington would appear to be a handle, unless she really is the famous Ms. Rowe (as in v. Wade)'s attorney. (Sarah, if you are, is your hair still red? as Dylan asked in Jack of Hearts)

One more thing on the cancer analogy, the cure often kills.

(Ps. The Visual Verifier is getting to the point where not only can computers not read it, this HUMAN can't read some of them!)

7/30/2006 11:03:00 AM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...


Tehran, Damasucs, Hezbollah, AQ and all the rest have declared war on us as well. They have pledged themselves to our destruction.

And the evidence is fairly solid that FDR would have gone after Germany and Jpan at some point regardless of Pearl Harbor or Germany's declaration. It was inevitable.

As for Truman. Once the Russians got the bomb, the game changed and I don't necessarily fault him in Korea.

But when he held the hammer in 1945 he dropped it.

The US holds the hammer now. For how much longer I don't know. We could find out on Aug 22.

7/30/2006 11:04:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Bombing Iran, like Beirut, is an act of war, buddy.
Justified or not.
There is no military solution in Iran short of war.
No tit, without the tat.

7/30/2006 11:06:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I guess only an Israeli can tell you whether the deterrent has been weakened, Sarah.

My guess is, now that Hez has used it, Hez can no longer threaten to use it.

The larger impression, the greater change from before this war, you see, is made on Hez--not Israel. According to the full meaning of "deterrent".

7/30/2006 11:10:00 AM  
Blogger Utopia Parkway said...

Iran doesn't necessarily believe its winning: Iran Hangs in Suspense as War Offers New Strength, and Sudden Weakness

This article has an analysis of how this new net-war affects not only Israel but also the US: A New Enemy Gains on the U.S. Wacht the audio slide show. Notice how most of the photos of HB armaments are credited to AFP.

It's ironic in a way that HB's poison pill strategy intended to destroy Israeli infrastructure and kill Israelli civilians from a distance has been much less effective than Israel's attacks on Leb infrastructure and even Israel's unintentional killing of Leb civilians. HB built bunkers to protect their fighters, Israel built bomb shelters to protect their civilians. I don't see that Israel is going to stop their offensive because of Leb civilian deaths. Iran and Syria, and frankly all sides, will be paying close attention to all these things.

7/30/2006 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

"They make a desert and call it peace."

When dealing with the likes of Nazi Germnay, Imperial Japan, Syria, Iran, or Hezbolah, this is in fact a good strategy.

7/30/2006 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"No Man's Land"

7/30/2006 11:16:00 AM  
Blogger rufus said...

Look, you all know I thought Israel's war plan was flawed from the start. I posted right here to that effect. However, it is what it is.

A group of civilians get killed (a completely foreseeable event,) and a bunch of our people go hysterical, gnashing their teeth, rending their garments, cursing the "Evil Bush."

Rule of War (Courtesy of Belmont Club Bloggers:)

1. Kill your Own Leaders

2. See rule 1.

7/30/2006 11:17:00 AM  
Blogger Juan Golblado said...

PJM has this on its front page:

Pictures smuggled from behind Lebanon’s battle lines, showing Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons. (Australia’s Sunday Herald Sun)

7/30/2006 11:24:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

sarah, I don't for a minute think the 100 rockets per day are being allowed by IDF. However, those 100 rockets/day are telling Israel and Iran both that the rules have changed on the Iran nuke sites.

Transfer the slow, workmanlike clearing of Hez forts--making way for the armed Internals--to a slow workmanlike bombing-out of the Iran nuke sites. All in line with the assurances to the Iranian people--as to the Lebanese people--that this is not a war on your government, merely a matter of survival for the those who have been promised that nukes are on the way to kill them all.

IOW, rat, maybe part of 4th generation warfare will be this military response that is not really war.

Remember IDF has two strong rooks in the corners, the US military in Iraq, and GWB's vow against the Iran Bomb.

Question, can IDF knock out the Iranian air force without too much loss?

7/30/2006 11:28:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"armed internals" = "armed internationals" --typo.

7/30/2006 11:31:00 AM  
Blogger greer rants said...

Bravo again on a stunning

Juan beat me to link for photos.
I guess that if Israel would be so kind as to close down all their bomb shelters, prevent their people from fleeing the border towns and make citizens stand in streets when rockets are incomming,
they could get their body count up.

Anyone doubt the possiblity that Hez blew up the building?

7/30/2006 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

The word verification can be annoyingly clever sometimes, overlapping v's look like w's. I've had times where every other time I tried to type in the word I got it wrong. Sure beats the Bots though.

7/30/2006 11:35:00 AM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...

They're not being allowed by the IDF? Who is allowing them?

An enemy has rained down death and destruction on Israel for 3 weeks and the IDF has been unable to stop it. I call that allowing it. If you call it something else so be it.

What is this slow workman like assault on the Iranian nuclear sites?

You think Iran will just sit back and take it?

They have much worse stuff than that C802. They have ICBMs. Have you heard of the Shihab? What will Bush do when Oil goies to $200 and the Hormuz is closed? What will he do when the IRGC agents and the shiites in the Hejaz hear from the Supreme Leader? They have thousands of IRGC agents and terrorists in Iraq just waiting the go order to send that place to Hades. You think Khobar or Beirut 83 was bad. You haven't seen anything. You think Iran is afraid of a US military that in 3 yrs has been unable to defeat a motley band of thugs?

Wake up. Iran is serious. They play for keeps. We need to learn to.

7/30/2006 11:38:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Bomb the Iranians and close the Persian Gulf.

Their Silkworms work just fine and can reach much of Gulf, not just the Straits. The IAF cannot secure 150 sq miles from rocket launches in Lebanon, the USAF will not be able to cover 4000 sq miles of Iranian coastline from the air.

If the line is to be crossed, fine and dandy, but no limited half stepping, please.

7/30/2006 11:39:00 AM  
Blogger Juan Golblado said...

I'm sorry to post so many times. I won't do it any more, and this is the same link as the one to the photos above (sorry greer rants :).

But I'm doing this to try to get this little teensy-weensy story circulated more widely. It is just the sort of thing I was saying we needed. We need more, more, more stories like this one.

The Melbourne man who smuggled the shots out of Beirut and did not wish to be named said he was less than 400m from the block when it was obliterated.

"Hezbollah came in to launch their rockets, then within minutes the area was blasted by Israeli jets," he said.

"Until the Hezbollah fighters arrived, it had not been touched by the Israelis. Then it was totally devastated.

"It was carnage. Two innocent people died in that incident, but it was so lucky it was not more."

7/30/2006 11:43:00 AM  
Blogger geoffgo said...

Former head-spook James Woolsey, just on Fox, said there is a discrepency in the civilian collateral damage. Apparently, the first reports of casualties were 7 HOURS after the last IDF strike.

Mr. Woolsey suggested that the Hez might have blown the building.

7/30/2006 11:44:00 AM  
Blogger Bob Smith said...

Technicians call it ‘working the problem.’

The buzz about the energy issue is that it is both a policy and a technical problem. So far, the intersection space between the two is very ugly.

Aristides notes Kissinger’s desire to better integrate diplomacy with military action - a synergism instead of an either-or zero-sum game.

Doug linked to ‘worst article of the week’ where author explains that not all terrorists are created equal. Deconstruction in the service of exploiting chinks in the armor.

The argument is that a multi-front solution is inherently diluted of strength - to the degree that it becomes no solution but an ‘enabler’ of the status quo where the tempests roil and boil - just in smaller teapots.

As opposed to Total War. One side wins - completely - and one side loses - completely.

I was encouraged a couple weeks ago when Arab communities started to express disapproval for terrorist tactics. Self-expel radical elements from the larger Muslim society.

If/when this happens, then the multi-front approach becomes viable. U.S. as power broker would be 'nice' but not an absolute requirement. Failure of the Muslim community to make a significant gesture in opposition to terrorism means that the options approach a singularity that is as far from the End of History as any of us could imagine. Power will no longer be brokered. It wil be exercised.

Muslims need to work the problem a h^ll of alot harder.

7/30/2006 11:46:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Concur your last ppara, rat. Sarah, you're right, there are plenty of other deterrents. It'll be a shitty scene. What's the alternative?

7/30/2006 11:46:00 AM  
Blogger redaktør said...

Israel is hitting Tyre. Hizbollah in frustration is attacking UN offices in Beirut and blowing up civilians in Qana. Nasrallah and his spokespeople are screaming for a ceasefire and getting none. The Hizbollah guys are all to the north of Beirut, in the Bekka, or hiding in Syria. The Israeli army, the coalition, the opposition, are all singing the same tune. And the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange (TASE) closed up today. :)

Something must be wrong, Sarah. I wonder what it could be.

7/30/2006 12:00:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

The Islamic way is to hide behind the skirts of women and children and to bring destruction upon them and it is the MSM that delivers the ransom note. “See what they did? They killed women and children!” The message is handcrafted to recruit more cowards and to inflame the insular senses of the US crypto-Marxists and the Euro-snobs against the liberal democracies that make for them a refuge. It makes me sick enough to want to see more body bags. A death of an individual is a tragedy; the death of millions is a statistic. We are in a death march to such statistics and the less we do the more certain it will be terrible.

But in the interim, I don’t know how many have been killed in Israel by missile strikes but I doubt it keeps up with the murder rate in a large US state. Their civilian population has calmly moved away from the threat. Israel’s inability to “stop” the missile fire could be likened to the LA PD’s ‘inability’ to stop skyrockets on the 4th of July. What an absurd metric. The Hezbollah missiles are prolific, terrific, and aimed squarely at public sentiment. What would the US do if Al Queda set up camp in the Sonoran desert? Call Kofi, ask Chirac?

7/30/2006 12:05:00 PM  
Blogger gumshoe1 said...

Rule of War (Courtesy of Belmont Club Bloggers:)

1. Kill your Own Leaders

2. See rule 1."


Don't lose heart,rufus.

As Ali Sina of says...
"the battle has a military and an ideological component",
and that's precisely how the Islamists(and their PR support
machine) view the battlefield.

the political cartoon from two days back(Hez fighter shooting from behind baby carriage,
Isreali fighter protecting baby carriage) illustrates what Utopia Parkway just posted:

"HB built bunkers to protect their fighters,
Israel built bomb shelters to protect their civilians."

the Shia civilians are shuffled into the basement of an apartment building that just unloaded some Katyushas
....for a photo op.

the operators come out of safety in their tunnel system
and repeat the charade.

even Jan Eglund of the UN
is onto them(from a similar article Wretchard ahd linked recently...couldn't find that link):

"Hezbollah cowards, says UN chief"
Herald Sun(Australia)
By Charlie Charalambous in Larnaca, Cyprus
July 25, 2006 09:36am

"UN relief chief Jan Egeland launched a scathing attack on Hezbollah today,
branding the Shiite militants cowards for boasting that Lebanese civilians were enduring the Israeli bombardments.

"Some believe I spoke only about excessive use of force by Israel there (in Beirut),"
he said in Cyprus after arriving from Lebanon en route to Israel.
"However, consistently from Hezbollah heartlands my message was:
'Hezbollah – stop this cowardly blending in among women and children'.

"I heard there was a statement they were proud they had lost very few fighters,
and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think you want to be proud
of having many more children and women than armed men (killed)," Mr Egeland said.,10117,19904504-23109,00.html

7/30/2006 12:22:00 PM  
Blogger ambisinistral said...

Conditions for a cease fire will be set in such a way that guarantees a cease fire won't happen soon.

August 22nd is the operative date. The attack on Israel was timed so that, had the script been followed, on the 22nd Israel would be stretched militarily and economically by a weeks long mobilization.

Instead, only the officers of three devisaions have been called up -- no doubt for planning purposes.

The bait was dangled, but it wasn't snapped at. Steady in the ranks boys, don't fire 'till you see the whites of their eyes.

7/30/2006 12:22:00 PM  
Blogger ambisinistral said...

Erm... should read "officers of three divisions"

7/30/2006 12:24:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Sarah, don't let the mullahs know how terrific they are--you might make them overconfident, and get them hurt.

Close the Straits? probably--for a very limited period of time. World oil inventories are up--at an eight year high, matter of fact. We have a six-month supply in the SPR. The oil mkts will go sky high, but that is an auction "spot" mkt and can come back down--maybe WAY back down with no freaked-out mullahs controlling a large producer.

The US Navy could also close the straits, you know--and for as long as it wants.

Also open it back up, in spite of anything the mullahs might do.

And then the payoff comes, for peace, for freedom, for Iraq, for GWoT, for the world's confidence in capitalizing the future, for damn near everything that terrorism has thrown guts and blood and shit all over for way too long now.

Sarah, your IRG agents are a bunch of "one-offs"--they'll kill a bunch of innocents as they get themselves killed, and then they'll be history.

7/30/2006 12:35:00 PM  
Blogger Michael McCanles said...

The contempt which Hezbollah has for Israel is only outdone by its contempt for the western liberal media and population to which it is playing with its faux outrage against civilian deaths wrought by Israel's weapons.

As the posts on this thread generally declare, hiding behind civilians is deliberate. Implicit in this deliberation is contempt Hezbollah must have for whose weaping for the Lebanese because they have fallen into the trap of allowing Hezbollah to reap the benefits of a win/win situation: (1) Fears of killing civilians (may eventually) cause the Israelis to cease their attacks; (2) killing civilians will inevitably cause much of the planet to turn against Israel.

You have to have contempt for much of the planet that allows itself to be taken in by a con so egregious. Hezbollah and their ilk are the ultimate grifters, with all the grifter's contempt for its mark.

7/30/2006 12:41:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Sarah is getting the heat but she is not out of line. Olmert has turned a golden opportunity to strike a crippling blow at the heart of Islamism into a public admission that Israel has abandoned its warrior spirit.

Olmert's timidity in committing the IDF to the Bekka is an egregious strategic error. For one thing it says that indiscriminately rocketing Israel's cities is insufficient provocation to risk IDF casualties. If that is not enough, what is?

If you were the IRGC commander or Naziforallah would you not be stockpiling bigger, more deadly munitions throughout the Bekaa? What's the risk? Fire 100 rockets every other month. Pick you own schedule. Add the latest Chicom air defense tech to the arsenal and you won't even have to suffer the occasional discomfort of a bunker. If Olmert won't risk grunts he certainly won't risk $100 million airplanes.

I doubt very much that Bush signed on to a half-ass effort. It was THE opportunity to kick some bluster out of Iran and force a showdown with Syria. We'll never know but I would have bet that Baby Assad would have backed down opening up a wealth of new possibilites in both Iraq and Lebanon.

Olmert gets a place on the wall next to Chirac. Israel can turn this around but not with Olmert and his cabinet at the helm. We would have been better off if Olmert just exchanged prisoners on day one. Even a 10% probability of the IAF hitting Iran was better than the 0% I see now.

7/30/2006 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

What an astounding and remarkable world in which we live.

The Israelis hit a hostile target in Lebanon, killing civilians in the process. Almost immediately the “White House” leveled an implicit complaint of Israeli disproportionality, in line with the usual anti-Israeli suspects, hard on the heels of Dr. Rice’s unhelpful observations.

Others and I then complained of the administration’s lack of loyalty and lack of courage under fire. For this, we became the “defeatists”. Recommendations of suicide, medications, and silence were forthcoming.

As the story has developed over the course of the day, patent Israeli culpability has become opaque in the process of discovery. As if it really matters, by tomorrow Israel may be exonerated/exculpated to the mind of any reasonable person.

There are two virtues every troop holds dearer than others: courage under fire and loyalty.

So to the critics of us the “defeatists” I would respectfully ask: who buckled at the first round fired and deserted an ally in the course of battle, the administration or we?

With respect, if Benedict Arnold had been Mr. Bush instead, would he be a traitor or the hero of Montreal in the minds of some correspondents?

Just something to think about.

7/30/2006 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Tamquam Leo Rugiens,

That is as succinct a description of the situation as I've read. In one long-ago post I wrote:

"Many who repeat the shopworn phrase that 'there are no atheists in foxholes' only partially understand it. Men on the battlefield pray to God not so much because they want to survive, though there is certainly that; but also because they realize, better than any academic, how much men need forgiveness on every day of their lives."

Only intellectuals can ever persuade themselves that war is good. It is only ever necessary.

7/30/2006 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger Captain America said...

Hezbollah holds northern Israel and the Lebanese government captive. The Lebanese PM is not in "partnership" with Hezbollah (and its owners), but has a virtual gun to his head.

As for asking the flyboy how it feels to drop a bomb, the question is best answered with other questions:

How would it feel if half of your country (as with Israel) is forced to live in bomb shelters due to the unrelenting, unilateral, indiscriminate bombing of its citizens?

How does it feel to have a toothless UNSC resolution 1559 that was never enforced?


7/30/2006 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger Woman Catholic said...

Rufus said:

Rule of War (Courtesy of Belmont Club Bloggers:)

1. Kill your Own Leaders

2. See rule 1.

3. There are times in war when the ruler need not be obeyed.

4. The object of war is swift victory, not drawn out limited action.

5.. A city captured intact is superior to taking smoking ruins.

6. The army must drill as they fight or they will hesitate in battle.

7. Never commit reinforcing troops and supplies piecemeal.

8. Become as stone and quietly await your enemy's unprotected moment.

9. Show yourself in places the enemy must hurry to, tiring himself.

10. Against a mysterious strategy the enemy must prepare everywhere.

11. Provoke the enemy commander and determine his tendencies.

12. Be without detectable pattern to frustrate his countermoves.

13. Feed on the enemy to reduce the burden of transporting provisions.

14. Know yourself, and pretend what you are not.

15. Put on a show of disorder to entice your enemy, then strike.

16. Attack where the enemy does not anticipate you.

17. Move toward the battle by unexpected routes.

18. Do not repeat tactics after a victory. Be unpredictable.

19. If you outnumber your enemy divide him and attack.

20. If equally matched, engage but be capable of withdrawing.

21. If weaker, withdraw but be capable of eluding him.

22. Move at random to shake loose opportunities, and grab them.

23. When he counterfeits a retreat, do not pursue.

24. Leave an escape route to a surrounded enemy and they will retire.

25. Fight downhill and downwind. Always take the high ground.

7/30/2006 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Rat, they don't have "anything" that can hit a U.S. escorted oil tanker. Also, in order to hit a target more than a couple of miles, away, they have to use shore-based radar; and, the second it's turned on, the Weasel will turn it off (permanently, with all souls, aboard.)

Israel does Not have our top-of-the-line stuff.

7/30/2006 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

And, Sarah, It's Much, Much, Much Easier to hit a fixed bunker (no matter how deep) that you know about than it is to hit a "guerilla" moving from hole to hole. Especially, when you're calling him on the telephone 72 hrs in advance, and tell him where you're going to hit.

7/30/2006 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

On a happier note(?) and certainly in line with wretchard's questions, see:

"Some people, before they're about to kill someone, they think that — 'Hey, I'm about to kill someone.' That thought doesn't occur to me. It may sound cold, but they're just a target. Afterward, it's real. You think, 'Hey, I just killed someone,'" says Wilson.

Insurgents "have killed good Marines I've served with. That's how I sleep at night," he says. "Though I've killed over 20 people, how many lives would those 20 people have taken?"

USMC Sniper Metes Out Swift Death in Iraq

7/30/2006 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...


Damned few, and far between.

Let me repeat: Damned Few, and Damned Far Between.

7/30/2006 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...


You and Buddy are mighty confident there. What will you do when a carrier gets hit? When a destroyer gets hit?

It's amazing you dismiss the IRGC as one off's. They are the most elite terrorists in the world. They haven't shown their hand. You think the media and the dems press with 50 dead per month. What will they do when 50 die in one day? 500?

I wish I knew where your hubris comes from.

What evidence do you have that the US would win an engagement with Iran? And I mean win, not some cease fire deal or what have you. Saddam had nothing and we're still fighting in Iraq.

Iran has 5X the territory, 3X the population, 1and most importantly 100X the will and the ability to inflict damage.

They've already defeated the Israelis without firing a shot.

And yet you know we'd take care of them without breaking a sweat. Sure.

7/30/2006 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Good God, Allen; There's One Freak'in World Leader standing beside Israel, and "Taking the Heat," and all you can do is bitch about him.

7/30/2006 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Teresita, I meant to post this with that comment.

7/30/2006 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Not without breaking a sweat--you're making stuff up for other's mouths.

The mullahs have some stuff, but they wouldn't last long against a USA that meant business. And the USA will mean business, if it comes to it. But we'll see, won't we.

7/30/2006 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Crap, I can't do anything right.

I was referring to your point number 3. Jeeez

7/30/2006 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger Ari Tai said...

re: FDR, Mr. Churchill, etc.

Note that the (dispassionate histories written well after the war show that) earlier British leadership agreed largely with everything Mr. Churchill said and recommended, but they knew they did not have the support of the electorate. It's a fiction to think that democracies are led by their politicians when it comes to big challenges. The politicians follow, else they find themselves out of office.

Same is happening here. This has all been pretty low intensity stuff - we've a long way to go to understand where we've stood by and watched another rape of Nanking.

It's one of the reasons democracies are "conservative" - slow to anger, but when angry will demand unconditional surrender and fight to the death to achieve it.

Ms. SW. may well live to see the ultimatums (and following nuclear sterilization) she believes is the only answer. But it will only come after we (the great body of Americans - or Israelis who could certainly do the same) have shed enough of their own blood to salve their conscience of 1000 Nagasakis.

Note that the Serbs did the same as the Hez are doing. They'd take busloads of refugees and lock them into buildings and facilities that they believed were Nato bombing targets. Sometimes they guessed right.

7/30/2006 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Anybody know anything about any ground operations that might be going on?

7/30/2006 01:18:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...


We will probably never know in our lifetimes but I think Olmert did a bait and switch. He promised to deliver Hizbu'allah, got his diplomatic cover, and then went into half-ass mode.

Considering that there is still no indication that Olmert will commit the IDF to the battle he got his ticket punched. I don't necessarily disagree. The IAF is not going to stop the rockets so what's the point of continuing? The best we can hope for now is the longshot that the international force will get into dustup with HB and finish the job. I'll win the lottery first but that's all we've got.

7/30/2006 01:18:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

If Hez is this cavalier with its own people's lives, imagine what chance the Jews would have under its thumb. Or, you know, "us".

7/30/2006 01:20:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...


You are like a cool breeze on a too warm brow. To your parents I send thanks.

Rufus, I believe, and Buddy I know, feel the same.

You are a gem!
Sūnzĭ Bīngfǎ ?

7/30/2006 01:25:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

This is one good reason for long, long, Presidential Campaigns. It takes Strong Nerves to be President.

Sarah, go see a Doctor, Get some Meds; this war is going to go on for a long time. I'm not talking about this "battle" in Lebanon, nor our "battle" in Iraq. There's always going to be another "life and death" battle in this war.

Iran is probably next; but then there's Pakistan coming up. Other "marginal" players are going to jump in. Chavez, Kim's Dong is Ill, who knows who else.

Cast your next ballot, wisely. If there's a "swing" state, like Ohio was in 04' you might consider taking a few weeks off, and doing a little campaigning, there.

Hysteria never won a war.

7/30/2006 01:29:00 PM  
Blogger trangbang68 said...

I must be a hard old guy or something,but I don't ever lose a moment's sleep because I popped some 40mm rounds in the general direction of Indochinese commies.It kind of came with the territory of being in the combat arms during a time of war.If you joined the navy,served on a warship during a conflict it would be kind of part of your job,que no?
Article in the AP this morning about a Marine sniper who has dispatched 20 jihadis to paradise in Ramadi and is alright with it.That's war.
The question "how do you feel ?posed'to pilots " is a little too therapeutic for my tastes.Maybe it doesn't have to be groovin' on the smell of burning flesh in the morning,but feelings.....?
Tamquam,There was nothing on the DMZ in those days but NVA and they'd kill you in a moment if they could.
Incidentally, if you were firing in 1972-73,you were supporting ARVN's not Marines as the last Marine combat unit left Viet Nam in 1971.

7/30/2006 01:34:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I think if the Golani Brigade was in downtown Tehran with surviving mullahs outside under guard scrubbing the dust off Merkovas, Sarah would be saying "Oh, no, this is an utter defeat for Israel--which I love, BYW--because its playing right into the hands of the Serbo-Croatians!"

7/30/2006 01:40:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...


I expect the “White House” to say, “You are with us or you are with the terrorists” and then stand by allies who take it seriously.

If staff needs to vent or decompress, the White House has a chaplains’ service and mental health staff. I understand that the UN has a shaman on duty 24/7, if it would help. Of course, the French have the complete works of Jean Paul Sartre, while Dr. Rice might prefer Dostoevsky.

7/30/2006 01:43:00 PM  
Blogger Lesley said...

BEIRUT, July 30 (Reuters) - ""The Lebanese army opened fire on Israeli helicopters trying to land near a town in the Bekaa valley, preventing them from setting down, Lebanese security sources and witnesses said.

The four helicopters appeared to be trying to land Israeli soldiers near the town of Yammouni, they said.

The helicopters flew away before Israeli warplanes launched air raids on the area, the sources said.""

7/30/2006 01:51:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Allen, look at what we want: Israel's Hez front secured by an international force, so someone can stop the jihadi nuke. Diplomacy is the route to that interim goal. Let the diplos do it their way. This bunch will not sell Israel down the river. Us red-staters won't let them.

7/30/2006 01:52:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

The boys over at POWERLINE have this tidbit.

WMD Shipments to Syria Described

This is an unofficial translation of Document Number ISGQ-2005-00022470, released as part of Project Harmony. It is a memo dated July 13, probably 2003; the author is an Iraqi opposition source located in Syria

7/30/2006 01:53:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

So, you wanted him to say, "Kill all the Civilians you can, Israel."

Good God, (I keep saying that, don't I?) Condi and John Bolton, are taking "tremendous heat" everywhere they go. The Pres is trying to win the "War." You expect him to tell all of our (and your) future allies to "go to Hell?"

Look, you people that wanted an "Apocalyptic" solution aren't going to get it. It wasn't Bush's call; it was Olmert's. Relax, and observe the proceedings. This is just the 1st or 2nd inning.

7/30/2006 01:55:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

re: wretchard’s questions

We train men to kill efficiently and then send them into battle with the admonition to use restraint. Well, battle teaches many things, but historically restraint is behavior incompatible with long life. No wonder so many men return from battle terribly conflicted.

In battle men become gods, having the absolute power of life and death. We insist that they choose to deal death remorselessly under lawful writ. Then, we ask obscenely, “By the way, how does it feel to kill?” Why not ask, “How does it feel to lose your soul?” – a far more meaningful question.

When Sherman spoke of war being hell, he was not talking of the destruction to property or the dead. No, Sherman, Patton, et al spoke to the hell lived by the survivors. And this is a good thing, because as Lee observed, “It is well that war is so terrible — lest we should grow too fond of it."

As wretchard has rightly observed, there can be no justification for war other than victory. Anything that works to weaken the resolve for victory is a perversion indulged by fools and the uninitiated.

As this is written, Israel has agreed to a suspension (cease-fire). Good work, Dr. Rice.

7/30/2006 02:15:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

24 hour ceasefire to get civilians out of the way.

And to let this international pressure subside a bit.

This is not due to Rice. This is an adjustment based on necessity.

I still think this is the calm before the storm. But I don't like it.

7/30/2006 02:25:00 PM  
Blogger Triton'sPolarTiger said...


"The mullahs have some stuff, but they wouldn't last long against a USA that meant business. And the USA will mean business, if it comes to it."

Agreed. Hopefully, it won't take another big hit for us to mean business, but if it does... whoa, nellie. Joe Don Baker swinging the lumber comes to mind.

7/30/2006 02:25:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Well, now there'll be no more excuse for any civvies in the war zone--and we'll see if the incoming missiles stop. Yes, Hez troops will get a re-supply--now under the watchful eyes of the world.

7/30/2006 02:30:00 PM  
Blogger greer rants said...


It is for HUMANITARIAN aid

Mark Steyn's Professionalization of war is ghettoization of war

The first President Bush assembled the biggest coalition in history for Gulf War I, and the bigger and more notionally powerful it got, the better Saddam Hussein's chances of surviving it became. Because the bigger it got, the less likely it was to be driven by a coherent set of war aims.

War is not like firefighting: It's not about going to the burning house, identifying what needs to be done, and doing it; it's not a technical solution to an obvious problem. And, if you think it is, you find yourself like George Bush Sr. in 1991, standing in front of the gates of Baghdad and going, "Er, OK. Now what?" Some people look at the burning house and see Hezbollah terrorism; others see Israeli obduracy, or a lack of American diplomacy, or Iranian machinations, or a need to get the permanent Security Council members to send peacekeepers, or "poverty" or "despair" or an almighty pile-up of abstract nouns. You can have the best fastest state-of-the-art car on the road, but, if you don't know where you're going, the fellow in the rusting '73 Oldsmobile will get there and you won't. ....
We live in an age of inversely proportional deterrence: The more militarily powerful a civilized nation is, the less its enemies have to fear the full force of that power ever being unleashed. They know America and other Western powers fight under the most stringent self-imposed etiquette. Overwhelming force is one thing; overwhelming force behaving underwhelmingly as a matter of policy is quite another.
.....whether the skill set provided by the typical American, British and European education these last 30 years is now one of the biggest obstacles to civilizational self-preservation. A nation that psychologically outsources war to a small career soldiery risks losing its ability even to grasp concepts like "the enemy": The professionalization of war is also the ghettoization of war. As John Podhoretz wondered in the New York Post the other day: "What if liberal democracies have now evolved to a point where they can no longer wage war effectively because they have achieved a level of humanitarian concern for others that dwarfs any really cold-eyed pursuit of their own national interests?"


7/30/2006 02:31:00 PM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...

The Golani brigade in Tehran? Pass the duchie.

The Golani brigade can't even go 1 or 2 miles into Bint Jubeil and you have them in Tehran.

I've just heard that Israel has capitultaed and accepted a ceasefire.

And the cigars are lit in Baalbek, Damascaus, Qom and Tehran.

Looks like my prediction was correct. I said that Israel would accept defeat by sundown. They came in ahead of schedule.

7/30/2006 02:34:00 PM  
Blogger greer rants said...

Jennifer Griffin verifying
24 hr ceasefire for investigation and "coordinated Humanitarian Aid"....



7/30/2006 02:34:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said... is reporting some question concering when the building in Qana collapsed. IAF hit it around 1 AM, and there are some reports that it collapsed around 7 or 8.

It would be nice to think that the Israelis can prove something, and are using this ceasefire to do it (in addition to the other reasons already listed above). Probably wishful thinking, though.

7/30/2006 02:35:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

Hey sarah,

Looks like one for you.

Oh, the current Fox hottie is saying this is not a cease-fire. No, sir, it’s a suspension. No, wait, she is now calling it a "stall".

Boy, Napoleon sure could have used this. Tojo would have been ecstatic.

Oh, yeah, "Give me victory or give me a cease-fire, suspension, stall."

"I have not yet begun to cease-fire, suspend, stall."

"Damn the torpedoes, cease-fire, suspend, stall."

7/30/2006 02:37:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

Sarah W.

You're moving precariously close to the "not worth reading precipice"...

just put the mouse down and back away slowly .....

7/30/2006 02:41:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

Wait! Wait!

The administration says its a 48 hour suspension.

No! Says Israel. It's a 24 hour suspension.

Boy, what a brilliant plan to confuse the Hezbollah.

Of course, this could be "The Original Amateur Hour."

7/30/2006 02:42:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

I'll see you guys in 24 hours. Hope Sarah can make it.

7/30/2006 02:43:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...


All the fingers here point straight back to Olmert. The Israeli battle plan begs the question, if this war is so important to risk the lives of somebody else's children why is it not important enough to risk the lives of your own soldiers?

I say again, never let a lawyer be the chief executive of anything.

7/30/2006 02:43:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Grand Ayatollah Sistani--our Shia cleric ally--will be riding high now, as his call for a cease fire was only shortly before the Israeli announcement. The deck is shuffling fast and frantic for the Shiia, ain't it.

7/30/2006 02:44:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...



Do consider that wretchard's title "The Pawns of War" could point to Olmert.

You are a lawyer? Don't worry, you're among friends.

7/30/2006 02:47:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Tell me what I am missing. Israel going after Hezbollah is like the US going after the state of Chihuahua, Mexico. The whole world and Chihuahua would expect the US to win and do so quickly. Most everyone in BC and the rest of the world expected Israel to roll up Hezbollah in a ruthless efficient operation. A quick lethal takedown that would have been silently cheered by the Saudis and Egypt amongst others. It would have been a humiliation to Iran.

But like an out of shape prize fighter, Israel stepped into the ring with a non-contender. When you fight a non-contender , you better finish him off fast. It is the most dangerous mistake in boxing. After the fifth round our champ is looking more like a chump, flat footed, cut and swollen flailing away against Ali-Hez-Raqui.

Hez-Raqui is on his way to making a legend. After all the world loves a winner and the jihadi street of dreams will be energized because dumb champ did not know how to handle a nobody. Sorry, there are a few more rounds left, but the cut man looks nervous.

7/30/2006 02:49:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Yeah, Peter, it's hard to make the "existential" argument when you refuse to call up your reserves for "economic" reasons.

Over and Under on the "cessation of aerial activities:"

I make it 9 hours from now, 4:46 CST.

7/30/2006 02:51:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

BTW, there's been some interesting activity going on in the Norther Beqaa Valley. (that's Not covered by the "cessation."

7/30/2006 02:52:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

If Israel is so weak, Sarah, m'dear, how come Israel has rthe power to decide yea or nay and when and where and how long, for a cease-fire? Can yer boy Nasrollah do the same? No, all he can do is flap his jowls from in hiding, "We're Winning! We're Winning!"

7/30/2006 02:53:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Nice analogy, 2164. Very Good.

7/30/2006 02:55:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

Where is the Israeli street on this deal?

Where's Bebe?

It ain't over til it's over, and chill'in, it ain't over.

Syria and Iran
Syria and Iran
They are the prizes.

This is not the big show..
We'll see a Cold Harbor before this is over.

7/30/2006 02:56:00 PM  
Blogger greer rants said...

If you apologize for making war, you lose

If you apologize for making war, you lose. If every other day, you are ordering investigations into how your own side is waging its war, you lose. The logic is very simple. If you are making war and apologizing for it at the same time, someone else is setting the rules of the game.......
What a delicious war Hezbollah and their allies in the MSM have created! They have shaped the battlefield so well. Every act by the country that was initially attacked now becomes the act of the aggressor. Every act to stop the rockets from Lebanon becomes an act of wanton cruelty because every rocket has been placed in somebody’s back yard. Fantastic. This is a textbook case of something we addressed previously: the logic of terrorism is that retaliation becomes the crime.

The US and Israel are playing Hezbollah’s game by Hezbollah’s rules when they are “deeply saddened” by Israel’s attack on a town that time and again has been set up as a civilian-laden target. They more properly should be “deeply saddened” and outraged that the fabulously remorseless Hezbollah constantly sets up this same situation over and over again. Somehow the US and Israel keep failing to learn, however, and Hezbollah keeps getting to set the rules of its war. For the US and Israel, their misplaced apologies look like milestones along the road to defeat.

7/30/2006 02:58:00 PM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...

All Nasrallah can do is continue to rain down 150+ a day on Israel, with the IDF as limp as old man who's lost his viagra.

All Nasrallah can do is drive the IDF from Lebanon and Mt. Dov and the slopes of the Hermon

All Nasrallah can do is chase the IDF from Bint Jbeil and Maorun ar Ras

All Nasrallah can do is humiliate Israel in front of the US and have them begging France to save them

All Nasrallah can do is get Israel to release hundreds of Hezbollah terrorists

That Nasrallah can't do anything, I guess.

I don't think some here realize the significance of an Iranian client resoundingly and overwhelmingly defeating a US client in the War on Jihad.

7/30/2006 03:00:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

2164th, right, and damn good analogy. Everyone can see a boxing ring stark under the lights, and everyone can see the Champ trying not to hit the Challenger's mom, wife, and kids, shuffling around the ring between the Champ and the Challenger.

7/30/2006 03:00:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Sarah, for the life of me, you sound like a Hez. Is you a Hez, m'dear?

7/30/2006 03:07:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Oh hell, Buddy; did you have to put it that way?

Dang, I hate it when a good, well written analogy falls apart.

7/30/2006 03:08:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

Sarah W.

You're really Ali Ali Rancid aren't you?

I can smell the goat butter in your hair.

Tell me, who in the end will win?

7/30/2006 03:10:00 PM  
Blogger Bob Smith said...

Trangbang68: The question "how do you feel ?posed'to pilots " is a little too therapeutic for my tastes.Maybe it doesn't have to be groovin' on the smell of burning flesh in the morning,but feelings.....?

Funny, last time I was in an airport I walked what seemed like miles from one bar, where the music was stone-cold rap to another bar where Feelings was wafting over the airwaves. It seems that the middle has been sucked out of our lives. There is nothing between ‘beat yo’ momma till she bleeds with senseless remorse’ and ‘people who need people.’ The edge needs a little chamfer but we shouldn’t have to get insulin.

I read an interesting post on another site. Poster claims to be grizzled veteran and from the quality of his observations, I choose to believe him. He said that all good soldiers are moderate sociopaths. They can turn ‘it’ off on command. There does seem to be a significant gender divide. He admits his wife can’t do it nor can his daughters but his sons can.

What a neck-wrenching segue. We were running the technology markets. Now we’re slouching towards - what?

7/30/2006 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger Michael McCanles said...

The pause in the war for whichever it is--24 or 48 hours--is to persuade whom of what? If it is to show "good will" on Israel's part, whom do they hope to persuade? Those who side with Hezbollah on this planet? This is a joke. The evidence is already overwhelming at the present moment: those who want to see Israel lose and even obliterated, are going to be persuaded of only one thing: that Israel has simply demonstrated that they do not have the wherewithal to prevail. As Nasrullah has already said, all the world knows that Israel can't achieve militarily what it wants to achieve. Hezbollah is, unfortunately, in the position of America in the Revolutionary war and of the Confederates in the American Civil war: they don't have to "win," they only have not to lose. So far, as long as they fire rockets into Israel, and Israel can't stop them, Heabollah has already won.

As I said earlier in this thread, Hezbollah is spoiling to die, and to die as the result of being the target of some sort of, probably American, massive strike that annihilates everything in sight, preferably with lots of civilian casualties.

By playing western liberal sympathies against the west itself, Hezbollah is daring Israel and (from their viewpoint, hopefully America) to do its worst and thereby bring down upon themselves the universal opprobrium of the world. And they know this is fulcrum capable of exerting considerable leverage, because they are depending on the West's own hatred of war and its casualties--a hatred which, as I suggested earlier, for which they have nothing be contempt--to be the very thing that will allow Hezbollah to continue to resist.

"The only way you will beat us is to kill us all--if you dare. If you don't, we will prevail."

Hezbollah's willingness to die in massive quantities, like that of the Japanese in 1945, is very much strength.

7/30/2006 03:12:00 PM  
Blogger Oengus Moonbones said...

Hezbollah will gladly fight to the last Lebanese civilian, because half of what's going on is a agitprop war designed to bolster Tehran's prestige in the Islamic world by humiliating Israel, besides trying to distract attention from the Mullahs' knuke program.

It doesn't matter to the world that Hezbollah is deliberately raining missiles down on Israeli civilians. But I'm sad to say that Israel is losing the PR war with every precision guided weapon that occasionally misses its mark. That is the downside of trying to prevail in this kind of conflict using an air-power only approach.

I hate being pessimistic, but Israel in the long run will lose in this conflict unless it utterly annihiliates Hezbollah, and that will require an all-out, no-holds-barred ground offensive. Unfortunately, it appears that the current Israeli government no longer has the nerve to do what is ultimately necessary.

Folks, if Israel cannot defend itself against the Islamofascist offensive, then ultimately none of us can defend ourselves.

7/30/2006 03:13:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...


doesn't come until well into the William Tell Overture.

Right Ali Ali?

7/30/2006 03:14:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Yep, Sarah, if we cut off a few certain types of supplies, your jihad will be back to communicating by the camel express. "Build a cellphone? A computer? A bicycle? No, we just steal those things--we don't know how to build nothin--waaaa, you never showed us how!"

7/30/2006 03:29:00 PM  
Blogger NortheastOxymoron said...

SarahWeddington said...

"I don't think some here realize the significance of an Iranian client resoundingly and overwhelmingly defeating a US client in the War on Jihad."

Well, that's a safe statement in that none of us have truly substantive information to confirm such a potentially flawed perception. Other than supposition, questionable interpretations of questionable media perceptions, and abject speculation, how do those not on the ground know Israel hasn't been absolutely kicking the living fecal matter out of the Hizzbies? It's WAY TOO EARLY to believe one knows what's really happened or happening, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

7/30/2006 03:34:00 PM  
Blogger NortheastOxymoron said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7/30/2006 03:35:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen; 3:00 PM

The only way this could happen is if the boxing commission set rules requiring self-destructive restraint. Moreover, the referee would have to open the ring to the interlopers.

You have clearly exhibited, however, the current foreign policy of the US, acting as boxing commission and referee.

I do not believe the IDF to be as flabby as sarah et al apparently think. I believe the Israeli government to be comprised of impotent flower children.

At Waterloo, the Imperial (Old) Guard was held in reserve until too late, thereby suffering their only defeat and subsequent annihilation. The best fighting force in the world (USMC) could do no better in Lebanon if fielded one rifle company at a time, with the ringing mantra of restraint.

bob smith; 3:11 PM

re: moderate sociopaths

Great defense mechanism, until the second quart of whiskey.

7/30/2006 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...


Israel may have beaten Hezbollah to a pulp, as you say. Even if true, would you concede that the unrelenting barrage of 4,000+ rockets over the last three weeks, with over 150 today, might inform the opinions of others differently?

7/30/2006 03:51:00 PM  
Blogger just a marine said...

The Four Pillars of Wisdom

All men are progeny oriented. The genetic goal of men is to breed, and support.
Women are equal to men in all matters.
Democracy’s principles guides all of our human future.
Tribes of humans will define our future in the detail.

If you believe the above, then let us go forward on the world issue that the current middle east war has prompted.

On the middle east war, the present state exposes the weakness of the Arab Muslim political leaders as well as the the pitiful people caught up in the war. They have their center of gravity which will be exploited.

Their big weakness is their economic unproductiveness. Without unearned income, without oil revenue and "aid"(Jizya) from the western world, they dry up and blow away.

The big target should be their sources of funds, the source of their means to train in Jihad without needing to hold a productive job. This includes welfare given to immigrants to the West...

Another superb point. Why do we not put more direct pressure on the sources of funding, and the madrassas and their idiot "imams?"

On women.
I am a westerner who grew up listening to easterners. There are two messages I have heard. If you are a women who gets married in Afghanistan and cannot have her husband hang out a sheet the next day with a blood stain (showing a popped hymen) then he can kill you. The same fellow talks about the routine of sending girls to Syria to have hymens popped by male cousins reinstalled. Also, he taught me that if I have a daughter, riding a tricycle was verboten because it might pop her hymen. He also suggested and invited me to male homosexual stuff since women were off limits (kinda like the mormans, but that is another story). More on women in Islam. Islam allows me the male to have up to four wives, but my teacher simply said most can’t afford more than one wife. Makes since to me, a westerner.

On Democracy.

We may get what we ask for. The USA is starting to look like a wonderful experiment in human history that worked out. Now it is worth defending.

On Tribes.

The world has always been human tribes. The nation state concept is a failed idea, albeit well intentioned. The Council of Vienna circa 1820 about borders and tribes and European politics (and Brits and Russian border work in the trans caucus./middle east later) gave us some boundaries today. I would propose something like a Council of Vienna today, to include having a Kurdistan and and a Baluchistan. The murderous outcome of the British dissolution of the Indian subcontinent is likely to happen and to be avoided by the U. N.

My last comment is to think 1,000 years.

7/30/2006 03:56:00 PM  
Blogger RattlerGator said...

One of these days leftists are going to figure out that George W. Bush doesn't give a damn about the P.R. war -- because the people that hate us have been hating us for a damn century!

And one of these days the apocalyptic crowd are going to figure out that -- damn it all, diplomacy still has to be engaged.

It's all a balancing act and this administration is doing it quite well.

7/30/2006 04:04:00 PM  
Blogger Bob Smith said...

bob smith; 3:11 PM

re: moderate sociopaths

Great defense mechanism, until the second quart of whiskey.

Maybe. Maybe not. One of the Apollo astronauts, I want to say Alan Shepard, astonished his trainers during flight preparation by falling asleep under duress training. Cool by a New York Mile.

7/30/2006 04:07:00 PM  
Blogger Bob Smith said...

Oops. In response to Allen. My lapses in protocol and spelling are just that ... lapses.

7/30/2006 04:15:00 PM  

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