Thursday, August 10, 2006

Good Morning To Everyone And All the Ships At Sea

I guess the question is where to begin our tour of the world this morning. Starting at random we could visit Iraq, where Iraq the Model describes how his neighborhood is setting up road blocks, setting up patrols and looking out for suspicious characters, that is to say killers -- to make it through to the next day. A few blocks away Damien Cave of the New York Times might be accompanying joint US-Iraqi patrols in Baghdad, where 10 of 11 recent operations against death squads have taken place. Or we could skip further afield to the outskirts of Falluja, where four of journalist Jill Carroll's kidnappers have just been arrested. Moving to the south we'd be confronted by the sad scene of carnage in Najaf, where a suicide bomber blew himself and 30 people up at a Shi'a shrine.


Some distance West would take us to the Holy Land, where 15 Israeli soldiers and an untold number of Hezbollah were killed in fighting in Lebanon. Sirens continued to sound all through northern Israel, as civilians hunkered down in shelters to escape rockets fired from across the border.  Things were quiet on the West Bank, as the IDF arrested an al-Aqsa commander in Ramallah. The Israeli cabinet halted the ground assault in order "to allow diplomacy to run its course. A senior minister said Wednesday that Israel might delay the expansion for 2-3 days for that purpose." That might be related to the fact that France threatened to break ranks with the US to accommodate demands that Israel withdraw from Lebanon  before any ceasefire. Syria, ever the prudent, has readied its civilian bomb shelters against the possibility that they may be needed.

Southwest Asia has seen some interesting developments. Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad told reporters that "that any attempt to take away the rights his country had under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty could force it to reconsider its adherence to the NPT."  Across the border in Afghanistan, coalition forces killed 15 Taliban fighters across that rugged country. "A spokesperson for the US-led forces said that the militants were killed after they attacked a base in Nuristan with rifle fire and rocket-propelled grenades. The soldiers responded with small arms fire before calling in air support to bomb the attackers."

All that, however, has been pushed below the fold by dramatic events in England, whose airports went into shutdown against a plot to blow airliners out the sky in a conspiracy said to be potentially more dangerous than 9/11. Practically all carry-on luggage has been banned at embarkation. Even baby bottles must now be tested by security personnel before they can be brought aboard. The air alert has now spread to the US, where two men from Dearborn were arrested on suspicion of being involved with the airplane attack plot. The operation is still ongoing as of this writing. No one can say where it will end.

But one thing that did finish was the contest between Ned Lamont and Joe Lieberman for the Democratic Senate primary of Connecticut. The Boston Globe says it should be a warning to all those who supported the war in Iraq.

now that Lieberman has paid a severe price for his unpopular war vote, the 77 senators who voted for the Iraq War can no longer assuage themselves with the once comforting thought that a fate like Lieberman's is an impossible prospect.

That was the mistake, in the view of some. Where it all started to go wrong. That and not September 11, 2001. And in some alternate mental universe people wish it were possible to return to that wonderful point in time when world history had ended and all the problems of the world seemed so near to solution you could almost see the dream unfolding before the clouds closed in. Bernard-Henri Lévy recently visited Israel to see how  Ehud Olmert, Amir Peretz and his old friend Shimon Peres -- men of the Left all -- were preparing for battle with Hezbollah. He asked Peres, now 86, to analyze the situation.

“The whole problem,” he begins, “is the failure of what one of your great writers called the strategy of the general staff. No one, today, controls anyone else. No one has the power to stop or overpower anyone else. So that we, Israel, have never had so many friends, but never in our history have they been so useless. Except.. . .”

He asks his daughter, who is present as we talk, to go to the neighboring office and find two letters, one from Mahmoud Abbas and one from Bill Clinton. “Yes, except for the fact that you have them,” he then continues. “The men of good will. My friends. The friends of enlightenment and peace. The ones who will never renounce peace because of terrorism, or nihilism, or defeatism. We have a plan, you know.Still the same plan for prosperity, for shared development, which will end up triumphing.Listen.. . .”

And reading these words for some reason reminded me of what Fitzgerald wrote of Gatsby's determination to set things to rights.

“I’m going to fix everything just the way it was before,” he said, nodding determinedly. “She’ll see.”

He talked a lot about the past, and I gathered that he wanted to recover something, some idea of himself perhaps, that had gone into loving Daisy. His life had been confused and disordered since then, but if he could once return to a certain starting place and go over it all slowly, he could find out what that thing was. . . .

. . . One autumn night, five years before, they had been walking down the street when the leaves were falling, and they came to a place where there were no trees and the sidewalk was white with moonlight. They stopped here and turned toward each other. Now it was a cool night with that mysterious excitement in it which comes at the two changes of the year. The quiet lights in the houses were humming out into the darkness and there was a stir and bustle among the stars. Out of the corner of his eye Gatsby saw that the blocks of the sidewalks really formed a ladder and mounted to a secret place above the trees—he could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder.

His heart beat faster and faster as Daisy’s white face came up to his own. He knew that when he kissed this girl, and forever wed his unutterable visions to her perishable breath, his mind would never romp again like the mind of God. So he waited, listening for a moment longer to the tuning-fork that had been struck upon a star. Then he kissed her. At his lips’ touch she blossomed for him like a flower and the incarnation was complete.

In some alternate universe.

280 Comments:

Blogger Karridine said...

Friends,
As an exercise in rational perception, I frequently strive to put myself in "the other guy's" shoes...

For instance, the recent verification of significant, anti-American/anti-Israeli distortion being introduced into the American and western communications and news media.

I tried to think of something good that could possibly come from lying through your pictures, lying through the labels on pictures, lying with staged pictures and lying in written reports...

Whatever ends I can conceive of achieving, are all SO VERY TEMPORARY that it all seems self-defeating!

The sickness of the lying thugs and their apologists truly saddens me, and at the same time stiffens my resolve to defeat them in their efforts at subjugating us!

8/10/2006 04:19:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Superb writing,scholarly assesment with an appropriate amount of irony. Well done wretchard.

One of the old ships at sea, the formerly Great Britain slightly fallen from grace, is conducting a press conference on the bomb plot to massacre ordinary people doing ordinary things. They are going through Olympian verbal gymnastics to avoid saying the obvious. Islam is the problem. A simple declarative sentence, much like Gatsby's “I’m going to fix everything just the way it was before,” would be a sensible first step.

8/10/2006 04:38:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Beautiful. F. Scott Fitzgerald, evoking the mood of an interstitial, after the War to End All Wars, before anyone has ever said "World War One".

He said "In America there are no second acts".

What a truth. We stay in our first act--revolution--or lose the dream.

8/10/2006 05:00:00 AM  
Blogger Bridget said...

Or Heathrow Airport, where British authorities appear to have foiled a sophisticated and large scale aircraft bomb plot....

8/10/2006 05:27:00 AM  
Blogger Bridget said...

My husband is currently in the air aboard an American airlines flight heading home from an international location. I hope they located all of the target aircraft.

8/10/2006 05:30:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Bridget, I'm sure they've gotten word, and nobody on the plane is going to make any sudden moves. Anybody even slightly weird will have plenty of people watching him very, very closely.

8/10/2006 05:35:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Any word on the flight plans and whereabouts of the eleven missing, dare I say, Muslim students?

8/10/2006 05:47:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

bridget

I hear you. I have two kids in Europe right now and there isn't a minute they are not on my mind.

I saw an interview with a Democratic congressman last night, gloating over the Lieberman dust-off. He said that Hezbollah was not really a problem.

Can these people really be that stupid?

8/10/2006 05:59:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

Funny how the west reacts to what Israelis would consider a daily routine - a bomb plot to blow up civilians.

Yet, Israel is supposed to lie down in the face of massive, sophisticated weapons firing at her daily.

The hypocrisy is monumental

8/10/2006 06:08:00 AM  
Blogger Bridget said...

PB,

Connecticut democrats are wearing egg masks this morning, that's a fact.

8/10/2006 06:13:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

Ah yes, those wonderful times, the mid-90's - before Monica - the world was at peace like never before - the only ones that plotted evil was the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy - terrorism, except for the American gun nut variety, simply did not exist. We were at peace forevermore and the military could be used for all sorts of nonmilitary things. Al Gore could devise a plan to cut NASA, the FBI and CIA by 30% - on the heels of cutting the DoD by 40% - and things would actually improve in those agencies. The business cycle had been defeated, permanently. Ah, for those wonderful days..

Maybe if we just put on our ruby slippers, clicked them together, and wished really, really, hard....

8/10/2006 06:27:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The Federals will or have not published the photos of tose Egyptians, so far as I know.

Of course these are "home grown" terrorists, in the UK. Makes it all better, not part of a world wide conspiracy. Just another local English event.

PB, no idea as to what will make people "see the light".
If the people of Boston, where the 9-11 flights originated, or NYC, PA and DC, where the 9-11 flights ended, fail to see the greater threat... Why expect the others, further afield to the threat, to see it, either.

Well, the New Yorkers are right in step with the US Supremes, Congress and the Executive.

There are none so blind, as those that will not see.

8/10/2006 06:30:00 AM  
Blogger Db2m said...

Wretchard,

The "interesting times" curse indeed. Pointless to bring up the old WW3 debate, but by foresight of future historians' hindsight, I would say it could very well be in progress.

"...France threatened to break ranks with the US to accommodate demands that Israel withdraw from Lebanon before any ceasefire."

I have no idea who the beast, the dragon, or the false prophet might be, but the 3 unclean spirits like frogs coming out of their collective mouth, hmmmm (Rev. 16:13)

******

The 2nd verse to the Old Song:


2. Let those refuse to sing
who never knew our God;
but children of the heavenly King,
but children of the heavenly King
may speak their joys abroad,
may speak their joys abroad.

Refrain:
We're marching to Zion,
beautiful, beautiful Zion;
we're marching upward to Zion,
the beautiful city of God.

We're Marching to Zion
Text: Isaac Watts; refrain by Robert Lowry

8/10/2006 06:30:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Is our future dependent upon ethnic cleansing?

8/10/2006 06:35:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

2164th:

I heard yesterday that one of the eleven was located in Minnesota.

I think they were here on a student exchange program at Montana State - which is in Bozeman - only about 1K miles off course!

8/10/2006 06:36:00 AM  
Blogger Db2m said...

Peterboston, Bridget,

I share in your concern, having 3 sons who are planning a mini-vacation in London later this year.

8/10/2006 06:38:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The "Goldwater" to Mr Bush's role as "Nixon", seems it may be Mr James Baker. The Bush family problem solver.

According to this piece in the Washington Monthly.
James Baker puts Bush's Iraq policy into rehab.

Well, we'll see.

8/10/2006 06:49:00 AM  
Blogger Ted said...

I don't understand what the Israelies are waiting for. Do they REALLY think someone is going to insert a credit force to disarm Hezbollah?

8/10/2006 06:49:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

Look for jihadis worldwide to jump the gun on their big Aug 22nd splash. Easily excitable boys & all that.

One of the considerations in this brave new world is the limits one must place on travel based on risk tolerance.

Damn that Bush!

8/10/2006 06:52:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Put me on the list, I just found out my son is in line at Heathrow, returning from a business trip.

8/10/2006 06:53:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Maybe if we just put on our ruby slippers, clicked them together, and wished really, really, hard....

I'm afraid that will just save Tinkerbelle, and not dissuade Green Helmet Guy from making children become dead and then playing with their corpses for the cameras of biased reporters.

8/10/2006 06:57:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

A very sobering read DR and a confirmation for your long term and somewhat critcized assessment, I found this part interesting...

""You'll notice, of course, that there are no neocons on the task force," said a member of one of the working groups. Here and there, scattered among the members of the working groups, are a handful of hard-line neocons, among them Clifford May, president of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, and Reuel Marc Gerecht, a former CIA Middle East hand who is a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. But they are vastly outnumbered by the moderates and centrists. In assembling the task force, Wolf, Baker and Hamilton were careful to avoid the neocons. "If you'd put [Douglas] Feith on it, people would say, 'These are the guys who got us in there in the first place,'" said a Wolf aide. Thomas Neumann, executive director of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs and a neoconservative, is concerned that Baker will steer the group toward an Iraq exit. "Baker's a lawyer," he told me. "He'll probably come up with some sort of position about getting an international consensus on Iraq."...

What a mess!

8/10/2006 07:10:00 AM  
Blogger nelson said...

What’s really scary is not the plot to blow up the airliners itself (that’s, anyway, what terrorists do), but what would be its likely consequences.

The MSM, the lefties and the liberals in general and also those that most actively sympathize with the Jihadists as well as their fellow-travellers were as unprepared for 911 as most of the rest of us. That’s not true any longer.

Had the plot succeeded, it would have succeeded in a big way, and without misfiring, with practically no risk of, from the terrorists point of view, a “wrong” political fallout.

Tony Blair would immediately be blamed for having jeopardized British lives by going along with the US and not turning recently against Israel. He would leave in disgrace. The US-UK special relation would also be finished for good. Thanks to the BBC and to the British elites, the UK would probably behave in a way that would make Spain’s reaction look steadfast and heroic.

The American Dems would paint it as final proof that Bush’s GWoT was an absolute mistake, blame him and milk every single drop of blood in this year’s elections.

Whatever went wrong (for the terrorists) in and after 911 would have been corrected. And the years between 2001 and 2006 would have been seen as a happy interval during which Jihadist terror could still be fought “easily”, with popular support in the West.

Nelson/Europundits

8/10/2006 07:11:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

time to bomb the black rock JUST to send a message

8/10/2006 07:15:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

the kaaba has been hit!

http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/dacha/smoke_on_the_kaaba_1280.jpg

8/10/2006 07:18:00 AM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Bridget said...
PB,

Connecticut democrats are wearing egg masks this morning, that's a fact.


No, you have to be careful to dissagregate events. CT was about internal Dem politics about being too kissy-face with Bush and whether or not Dems endorsed Maximum War Leader's vision and conduct of the Iraq War.

Not terrorism. Not Bush's tax cuts and 100s of billions in pork for the wealthy. Not supporting Israel.

Iraq. Being an overt DINO and the dispised Bush's Favorite Pet Democrat. Iraq.

Lieberman looks like he will win anyways, unless Lamont sells himself as other than a one-trick pony and Lieberman as another tired Inside the Beltway politican seeking a 4th term only because he sees himself as Senator For Life.

*************************

Meanwhile, as Wretchard does his echoing of Walter Winchell's radio greeting....the two big thematic events of the 21st century do seem to be:

1. Muslims killing The Other. And killing Muslims when no infidels are handy to satisfy their murderous rage.
2. The Owner Class and Ruling Elites using globalization to levelize wages between the advanced world and cheap labor pools. Creating very precarious economies and currencies. Citizens of advanced countries have to choose which good jobs in manufacturing, science, engineering are soon likely to be lost forever to China...and what good government, service, and legal jobs can be created by expanding Government size and regulatory mandates.
**************************
Desert Rat - The Federals will or have not published the photos of tose Egyptians, so far as I know.

Their faces are posted.

Saw a lineup on Michelle Malkin's blog.

****************************
So, no fluids or carry-on on flights for ALL due to the radical Islamist threat...The stupidity of the "pure defense approach" advocated by France, human rights groups, and enemy rights lovers like Sen. Russ Feingold and the usual suspects like the Sulzbergers of the NYTimes and Nadine Strosser of the ACLU is an intelligent enemy will probe and find weak spots in any defense.

Then the citizens, if the enemy is not barred or questioned closely under Muslim privacy and non-profiling "rights" are subjected to more and more blanket general restrictions.

Wait 'till the authorities realize the nexy step is to internally pack a martyr with explosives. And "enemy rights" lovers then have to line up for their flouroscoping and mouth, anal, and vaginal probing before entering Gov't buildings or airlines. A smart thing would be for the people to insist that there be no Congressional immunity from such body cavity searches if we go that way...and ACLU types can get in line with the Muslims and 70 year old Swede grannies.

At this stage - I'd rather we be honest. We are in WWIII, we are going to interrogate enemy suspects no matter how badly enemy rights lovers like Durbin, a Sulzberger, Schumer, or Feingold whines. To avoid having some lesbian TSA worker putting her fingers up Pelosi's vagina everytime she goes between Gov't buildings - it's time for her to consider strictly limit Muslim immigration, visas here - and to profile the narrow pool of people who the enemy hides in.

But again, Iraq is a bizarre offshoot of the war with Islam. As an ill-informed Bush listening to his Neocons amateur beliefs about Islam just needing Democracy, has taken 22,000 casualties and spent over 700 billion to "save the noble purple-fingered freedom-loving Arabs of the equally noble Religion of Peace from themselves".

And Iraq has responded to him with that special sort of Arab Muslim love and gratitude customarily shown infidels.

No one should think that we have an absolute obligation to enrich our enemy and rebuild & better their lives in the middle of a war.

Bush is so ensnared by the Neocon's seductions, and so checkmated by the Bush haters and enemy rights lovers that we may have to wait for a more intelligent and visionary President to be elected...and hopefully we can find one.

Meanwhile, shop. Enjoy your tax cuts if you are a "Ranger or Pioneer" level American...Stay the course. Support your hero cops, hero firefighters, The Troops, and any other hero kinda gov't employee in uniform. Send charity to the children of the Religion of Peace.
*********************

8/10/2006 07:26:00 AM  
Blogger nelson said...

The BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm

"Police had spoken to a "good number of community leaders to make them aware that a major operation was under way," he added."

Community? Which one exactly? The Latvians, the Chileans?

Well, here's a clue:

"According to BBC sources the "principal characters" suspected of being involved in the plot were British-born. There are also understood to be links to Pakistan."

Should we laugh or cry?

8/10/2006 07:34:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

newsflash...

just in...

Near London's Regent's Park, the copper dome of a new mosque is burning above the treetops. Above a busy street in Almelo, The Netherlands, the shape of a minaret stands sharp against the sky, it too is on fire. And in Munich and Manchester, Copenhagen and Coventry, the new mosques have been bombed.

These mosques, and others being all under attack in other European cities, reflect the anger of the west at the Muslim presence in the West, but also a final straw between Christianity and Islam. In London, this morning the arrest of 21 moslems trying to blow up American airliners has sparked the backlash.

Millions of moslems are fleeing europe as their self emposed ghettos are burning. Riots have broken out in Sweden, Germany, France and Norway, hundreds of moslems have been burned alive in their houses.



Just a prediction....

8/10/2006 07:43:00 AM  
Blogger Meme chose said...

The reason intelligent people on the left are not going to change their thinking until we get hit harder than we were on 9/11 is because in order to change what they think about that, they are going to have to give up what they think about just about everything.

They have been left adrift by the collapse of their absurd ideology.

Many of them are just too old to contemplate such a 'radical' (irony alert) reconsideration.

8/10/2006 07:48:00 AM  
Blogger charlotte said...

Problem with that prediction, what is occupation, is they won't flee.

8/10/2006 07:51:00 AM  
Blogger texas said...

2164th said...
Is our future dependent upon ethnic cleansing?

I wouldn’t have even considered this before Sept 11, but I’m beginning to think you may be overly optimisitic. Its not really enthnic, its religous.

I think instead we may get an old fashioned religious war, such as the West has not engaged in for several hundred years. It will be a terrible thing to behold.

But Islam is trying to kill my family.

8/10/2006 07:52:00 AM  
Blogger rufus said...

Well, one thing is for sure; Islam is incompatible with "Civilization."

Eventually, our children, or their children will have to wipe this Cancer off the face of the Earth.

If I was a Muslim, I would be converting, before it's too late.

8/10/2006 07:55:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

I cannot believe, rufus, that you'd "cut and run".
When have you ever done that, before.
When under fire, you "bugged out", I find that hard to believe.

The HB, in Lebanon, they'd rather fight than switch. Just like you.

That's why there will be a real War, eventually.

8/10/2006 08:14:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Hijack plot in Doha, Qatar was just foiled, by passengers on the plane.

US has raised threat level to "highest", first time ever.

And the President of the United States is about to make a statement.

What's sad is that if nothing happens, and we succeed, once again, in dodging the bullet, in a week or so you will hear the innuendo begin: are we manipulating the terror threat in advance of the elections?

8/10/2006 08:14:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

The thread of Islamic extremism is woven fine with what seems the mysterious sinews best known for the seams of the kings new clothes, bared by all who could see beyond the pall of reinforced reasoning. Listen well and the poets of the funny pages will muse us into a comfortable slumber. Sleep my pretties. Darkness awaits and your dreams will carry you like a carpet in a sand storm away back to the future of your just aspirations. Daddy can’t hurt you anymore. The courts have staid his steady hand and mommy loves you. No harm can come to you because you only reap what you sow and so you know you only get what you deserve and daddies gettin’ burned for being unnerved.

8/10/2006 08:16:00 AM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

FYI,

Remember the Green-helmeted "Red Cross " worker?

HT - LGF

8/10/2006 08:25:00 AM  
Blogger geoffgo said...

rufus,

Another thing that's for sure is that the left doesn't comprehend that they will be thrown under the bus, or worse, as soon as any one of them attempts to add compassion to that eventual response you mentioned.

8/10/2006 08:34:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

What's sad is that if nothing happens, and we succeed, once again, in dodging the bullet, in a week or so you will hear the innuendo begin: are we manipulating the terror threat in advance of the elections?

Who would be the "we" in this instance? Surely you cannot mean the inept Bush Administration?

But if you expand the concept to include, not a vast right-wing conspiracy, but a vast Jewish conspriracy, then the idea better conforms to some people's pre-existing world view and will, no doubt, find a ready audience in some quarters.

8/10/2006 08:35:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Iraq and the War on Terror, completely different things.
So says a Democratic talking head on FOX.

Lots of the Public, here in the US, believe that. The Administration refuses to tie Syria into either the Lebanonese or Iraqi situations, in a meaningful way.

The Administration is not promoting the idea that we are engaged in a Regional or World wide conflict. It has not moved to cancel the Hamadan decision.

Just a series of local conflicts.

8/10/2006 08:36:00 AM  
Blogger timmiejoebob said...


A few posts back
I commented about Hezbollah and Al Queda being like Coke
and Pepsi caught in a marketing war. Forgive my use of their terminology, but
the war against the Zionists and terror strikes against the Crusaders are not
the product for either of them. They are rallying points. Taglines in a
marketing campaign for the organizations themselves. South Lebanon has so far
been a fabulously successful promotional campaign for the shiite Hezbollah. So
successful that we are seeing fatwahs from Wahhabi clerics against sunni muslims
coming to the aid of Hezbollah.

Al Queda fundraising, recruiting and prestige have taken
significant blows lately. The Anglosphere war has had a devastating effect on
them. Hezbollah has leapfrogged past them in the battle for the heart of Islam.

The plot to blow up airliners between Britain and the US
was a counter to Hezbollah. It was designed to demonstrate Al Queda’s strength
and reach has not been diminished. It failed. And it failed at the worst
possible time for Al Queda with Hezbollah being so flush with success.

Al Queda cannot afford this failure. They will have to
respond. Not to the west, but to Hezbollah. Their response may be an attack on
the west, but that won’t be the end, only the means. If they have assets in
place they may choose to use them. Especially knowing the west has somehow
compromised their secrecy. Pinch Sulzberger isn’t the only one that wants to
know how.

If they don’t have assets in place they will need to
respond to Hezbollah in another way. That could get interesting. The faults
within Islam have been showing a little seismic activity lately. Sooner or later
something is going to blow.

8/10/2006 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger Bridget said...

"No, you have to be careful to dissagregate events. CT was about internal Dem politics about being too kissy-face with Bush and whether or not Dems endorsed Maximum War Leader's vision and conduct of the Iraq War.

Not terrorism. Not Bush's tax cuts and 100s of billions in pork for the wealthy. Not supporting Israel"


Cedarford, I'd love to ask Ned Lamont about the NSA eavesdropping thingie about now....

8/10/2006 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger PD Quig said...

It is comforting to know that James Baker’s Iraq Study Group is on the case. The collection of recycled realists that so smoothly paved the current road to perdition in Iraq—and for that matter in virtually every other world hot spot—reads like a virtual Who’s Who of Myopics Anonymous. They really cover the gamut of policy failures both internal and external. They are the ideal bipartisan group to diffuse any last chance for action against the real root cause of Middle East issues.

“Thanks, Dad. But you know there was more than one reason why the American people threw you out of office in 1988.”

Until action is taken against Iran there can be no peace or success in the region. Even if action is taken it may be too late for a peaceful outcome. Hopefully we can at least agree, Right and Left, that—given the alternative—it would be preferable if we are left sitting atop the ruins. On second thought, maybe that’s the real root cause. We can’t agree that our way of life is worth saving.

8/10/2006 08:58:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

If "Western Wats" are causing mental illness amongst the Nipponese, just imagine what it does to goat herders.
Western values 'are causing mental illness'
"... THE rapid spread of Western business practices in Japan has caused widespread mental illness and is responsible for a deepening demographic crisis, government officials say.
Statistics indicate that 60 per cent of workers suffer from “high anxiety” and that 65 per cent of companies report soaring levels of mental illness.

Meanwhile, the size of the Japanese population is shrinking, and for the first time the Government has acknowledged that the falling birth rate is linked to job-related factors. Directors of the Japanese Mental Health Institute blame the same factors for rising levels of depression among workers and the country’s suicide rate, which remains the highest among rich nations.

Merit-based pay and promotion are of particular concern ..."

8/10/2006 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

British Home Secretary John Reid:

Britain is living through its most threatening time since the second world war, John Reid, the home secretary, warned today.
In a speech to Demos, a London thinktank, the hyperactive home secretary - who will mark 100 days in the job this Friday - confirmed that a terrorist attack on the UK was "highly likely", as signalled by the current "severe" warning on official government websites.

He also called for a "Darwinian" approach to the legal system, saying that it must be "responsive to change" in order to protect the nation against terrorism.

Mr Reid said: "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."

8/10/2006 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Reid also quoted Rumsfeld:

Although the speech broke no new ground in terms of concrete policy, Mr Reid repeated previous government assurances that the security services had already foiled four known terror plots against the country - but quoted Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, by saying that there were "known unknown and unknown unknown" terror plots.

Mr Reid also pointed out that European-wide human rights - such as freedom from detention, forced labour, torture and punishment without trial - had been formulated in the wake of state fascism, but were now threatened by what he dubbed "fascist individuals".

8/10/2006 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

Should someone have the audacity to make a cartoon showing a man removing a bomb-laden turban and leaving it in an airliner seat, there would be (basing the speculation on past behaviour) widespread Muslim anger directed against the West for having the audacity to even depict such a thing.

And yet, let Muslims actually engage in a plot to blow up airplanes and our response is merely to sigh in relief that we have "dodged yet another bullet".

Where is our anger? Or do we not get to indulge that luxury in this battle for our way of life and our lives?

8/10/2006 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

s.s.

You overstate the threat, according to Mr Reid, no "fascist individuals", are going to threaten me and mine.
It'd take a world wide effort of States to do that.
The US does not acknowledge State involvement, nor do the Brits.
It all just Individuals

8/10/2006 09:31:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

oil and gold both selling off briskly today. What you'd expect from a drop in the fear of fear.

8/10/2006 09:31:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

rat, he may've been referring the 'home-grown' nature of this latest. Clue is that the phrase doesn't fit with the "back to Darwin" theme of the statement--which was pretty bellicose in fact.

8/10/2006 09:35:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Sirius,

A similar question was posed by WFB some weeks ago:

Why is Islam burning bright? What on earth do they have that we don't get from Christ our King? If what they want is a religious war, are we disposed to fight it?

8/10/2006 09:40:00 AM  
Blogger Staring In Disbelief said...

Cedarford,

You keep quoting the staggering sum of $700 billion dollars for the cost of the Iraq War. Where is that number coming from and how is it broken down?

Also, what would have been the right course of action re: Iraq?
1.) "Let the sanctions do their thing"
2.) Invade, topple Saddam, leave a mess (and risk a "Oh Shit We Need Another Marshall Plan " moment later?
3.) Other?

Pretend it's you in the White House in 2002. What's your move?

PD Quig,

I agree with you. The last thing IN THE UNIVERSE we need is a Jim Baker Deal on Iraq. The guy is the most unprincipled, spin-doctoring, anything-for-a-deal operator Washington DC has ever seen. If he had been Roosevelt's advisor instead of Harry Hopkins, we would have offered Germany Eastern Europe, half of France & a British indemnity to behave themselves. (Of course, the fanatical idiot Hitler would have turned it down in either case, but you get my point).

Oh, and "Daddy" Bush got thrown out in 1992. He got elected in 1988 as Ronald Reagan's Third Term.

8/10/2006 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger Chris Eich said...

What kills me is that the inept TSA is responding by banning all liquids, from shampoo to bottled water. And the radio reporters suggest that everyone is just getting used to another level of across-the-board idiocy.

One wonders whether the bad guys foresaw this secondary effect (well, if we get caught, at least millions of travelers will be made even more sheepish by their own bureaucracy) and rejoiced at its prospect.

8/10/2006 09:44:00 AM  
Blogger Chris Eich said...

A piece of good news: President Bush admits we are at war with "Islamic fascism" and not "terrorism".

8/10/2006 09:45:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

C4 said:

"Wait 'till the authorities realize the nexy step is to internally pack a martyr with explosives. And "enemy rights" lovers then have to line up for their flouroscoping and mouth, anal, and vaginal probing before entering Gov't buildings or airlines. A smart thing would be for the people to insist that there be no Congressional immunity from such body cavity searches if we go that way...and ACLU types can get in line with the Muslims and 70 year old Swede grannies."

The BBC is reporting that these "Asians" may be second or third generation. The TV picture of the homes in High Wycombe look to be worth in excess of $300,000. They will have British accents and have gone to English schools. Yet they would have killed themselves to kill any one of us. Cedarford, logically and in his own analytical manner points to the next logical step for these "Englishman" to try and murder us. I realize that we are stronger, more noble and enriched because of diversity, but diversity has morphed into a screen for perversity.

It is past time to pull back the curtain. The UK has identified another metasable aspect of westernized Islam. It is incompatible with western society regardless of number of generations. The US and Europeans have probed the depths of tolerance and acceptance and have struck a caustic barrier and that is Islam itself. That does not mean there are no good Muslims. That is demonstrably untrue. Pakistan is said to have provided assistance in outing this plot. However, you can come to no other conclusion Islam itself is defective in design. It can only be corrected from within. The question is how?

8/10/2006 09:46:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

I think that with each new publicized Islamic attack, whether foiled or successful, the average Western mind further hardens against Islam the religion and Muslims the group.

I don't think Muslims as a whole know the dangerous game they play by not using this time to distinguish themselves from the killers.

8/10/2006 09:48:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

re: diversity

Putting a fox in a hen house makes the hen house more diverse.

Viruses in the body make the body's cellular make-up more diverse.

Adding mustard gas to a train makes the train's air more diverse.

Something tells me that "diversity" is a poor standard by which to judge anything. That our elite universities fetishize it is proof of their unseriousness.

8/10/2006 10:03:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Mr Reid, the Senate minority leader has looked beyond CT, to Mich. where a Republican incumbant, Rep. Joe Schwarz, lost.

I have read of two reasons for his loss. One was support for stem cell research funding, the other was that Mr Schwarz was "to close" to Mr Bush. Each reason seemingly 180 degrees in oppossition to the other.

Anyone know?

8/10/2006 10:05:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

I don't think Muslims as a whole know the dangerous game they play by not using this time to distinguish themselves from the killers.

Aristides,

If they're not seen as being for us they'll be seen as being against us?

That sounds vaguely familiar.

8/10/2006 10:06:00 AM  
Blogger John Samford said...

None of this matters anymore. Go over to powerline and watch a streamin video of Ahmadamnutjob declare he has an atomic bomb.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/powerlinenews/video2/

If you have a minute, drop down and watch the "Right Brothers"

An Iran with nuclear weapons makes all the other things trivial.
This isn't making the news yet because it's possible it's a translation error. "When we have" being translated as "we Have" or something like that. Translators have bad hair day also.
I think once the half-wits at the MSM realize that this is 100% PRESIDENT Bush's fault and here is a hook they can hang their impeachment hat on, they will be all over this story. Like white on Rice.
After trying to pin everthing bad that has happened on this planet for the last 2 billion years on PRESIDENT Bush, they finally have something that 90% or better of American will agree is his fault.
On a positive note, Cheney will get the button after PRESIDENT Bush is impeached (with Republicans trying to keep their own jobs leading the charge). Dick will use the button, which is what Dubbau should have done a couple of years ago. A 10 warhead MIRV on Tehran and the WoT goes up in the W column.

8/10/2006 10:12:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

In light ot today's events,I recommend everyone look at this Pew survey on Muslim attitudes.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248

8/10/2006 10:13:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

aristides,

re: Darwinian

Here's something for Mr. Reid to consider:

___As a general rule, big fish eat little fish in life; little fish eat big fish in death.

___The advantage, on any evolutionary day, goes to the adaptaions of large/sharp teeth, talons, and claws.

___Intelligent organisms, say Mr. Reid - for illustrative purposes only, must recognize a challenge in order to adapt.

___Can/will Mr. Reid name the threat to which he must adapt?

___The inability of the West to recognize its adversary (ISLAM!!!) demonstrates not only the failures of strenghth and intelligence, but a terminal inability to adapt.

8/10/2006 10:13:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Read Donald Sensing's summary on Korea Air #858.

8/10/2006 10:14:00 AM  
Blogger John Samford said...

"If they're not seen as being for us they'll be seen as being against us?

That sounds vaguely familiar."

It should. Osama bin Ladan used it in his Fawtawa of 1998, then PRESIDENT Bush used it again later.
The statement itself it a fact, well established in military history.
In a guerrilla type war, regardless of the name it hides under, there can be no neutrals, SINCE THE ACT OF NEUTRALITY AIDS ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER. this is a fact that has been demonstrated many times over the 5500 years of recorded military history.
AFAIK, it's also present in criminal law. If the police come up to you and ask, "which way did he go", and you don't tell them, you are aiding and abetting. IIRC, that is a felony. It is logically impossible to not aid one side or the other.
Scenario; The Sargent asks you waht you say. If you tell him, you are aiding he army, if you don't you are aidng the Terrorist/insurgent/guerrilla.
I you tell him you didn't see anything, you are aiding the guerrilla again.
That is what makes irregular warfare so tough. Build a truth table and you will find most of the possible actions that can be taken help the guerrilla. That is why Henery te K. said that all the guerrilla needs to do is avoid losing, while if the conventional force doesn't win, it loses. A lesson Israel is being re-taught today.

8/10/2006 10:27:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Rat, re: Joe Schwartz,

Centrist blog GOPProgress is blaming the arch-conservative base in MI-7 district for rejecting what Redstate.com has stamped a RINO.

It seems that Walberg ran as the "real conservative", and carried the motivated base.

It's troubling that both parties are actively retreating from the middle, and burning their heretics.

As Redstate admits:

And the number one reason Joe Schwarz Must Go . . .

1. It will send a message to Republican leaders in Congress.


All of this is worrisome.

8/10/2006 10:30:00 AM  
Blogger Jrod said...

Don't miss Mike Wallace coming out of retirement to interview Ahmadinejad this Sunday evening.

O/T Anybody have any news on what's happened the that Taliban fella that was trying to matriculate at Yale?

8/10/2006 10:33:00 AM  
Blogger Novangli said...

In the words of Intel founder, Andy Grove, "only the paranoid survive." It's telling that Israel is finding documented Pasdaran among the dead in South Lebanon. Scotland Yard uncovered a sophisticated airliner plot this week and everyone is saying that it was "professional", but has yet to make the connection to government sponsored. Will they? Will we see more events implicating Iran in the next two weeks? Does Ahmadinejad have something up his sleave for 8/22? Did Nasrallah suggest muslims leave Haifa, because he intends to shoot WMD's into downtown? Are Israel's new German submarines sitting off the coast of Iran and Lebanon with nuclear tipped cruise missiles? There are so many unanswered questions, but my gut is telling me that we are accelerating toward something huge and unstoppable. Yet, as with the 1930's, we slumber lighly awaiting the blow that wakes this sleeping giant. Who will be this generation's Patton and MacArthur? Do we have the stomach to build the case for pre-emption, or will we ait for the blow to fall?

8/10/2006 10:35:00 AM  
Blogger geoffgo said...

2164th,

How? Cause the ummah to immediately SHUN the radical imams...in mosques, madrassas and residences; anywhere 24/7.

Isn't it obvious that the West needs to get the imams and Islamic scholars to produce Koran 2.0, now?

So let's ask politely, and then get on with it. I'm making my list and checkin it twice! I'm for targeting the top 5,000 (replenished in real-time) most outragious of these Muslim preachers/teachers world-wide, for termination-with-preudice. Updates and nosecone videos at 11:00.

After perhaps 200 - 1,000 of these bad guys are eliminated on TV, they'd get the message, and convene a conference to re-interpret what old Mo actually meant. Radical imams/teachers are the root of the problem. As Rat says, name the enemy. Well, we've named it. Islamic fascism.

The now-motivated imams/scholars might start with changes like it's really raisins, not virgins awaiting Muslim marytrs-to-be, according to the "older" interpretations.

Drones equipped with Hellfires are the essence of 4G warfare, and cheap.

Publish the list, be "inclusive." All sects of Islam are eligible.

It's the fastest, cheapest, most humane approach to avoid the genocide Muslims are incited to produce every Friday.

And, it can disabuse the ummah of the belief that they are not going to be first, for no reward whatsoever, if they keep listening to those perverters of Islam.

Let's be upfront and candid, rather than diplomatic. Kick off the program with Mokie.

8/10/2006 10:38:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

2164th,

re: Pew Poll

You dog.

For those who doubt the persuasiveness of war in changing hearts and minds, link to the Pew Poll provided by 2164th.

You’ve got to love those Lebanese numbers covering violence against civilian targets.

In 2002, when Israel was being hammered, 73% of the Lebanese could justify such attacks.

Fast forward to 2006 and "Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!" only 39% think being in the crosshairs is such a good idea.

My friends, they can be taught.

8/10/2006 10:39:00 AM  
Blogger Triton'sPolarTiger said...

Was this plot scheduled for Aug 22?

Mrs Triton worked for 4 years at the local Jewish Community Center. We used to joke with our Jewish friends that she was the token gentile.

It was an interesting place - let me tellya, you haven't lived until you watch one old Jewish couple get into a shouting match with another old Jewish couple when, after the one couple steals the other couples rolls from their lunch trays, proceeds to justify it because "we were in the Holocaust and you weren't!" Hilarious, and yep, they had the tattoos.

Seriously, the center was incredibly safety-conscious, but I still worried about my sweetie every dang day.

I think about that Seattle shooting the other day... could have easily been us... and I get angry.

I hear about this foiled airline plot... and I get angrier.

I hear about another rant from Achmawhatevertheheckhisnameis, threatening everything I hold dear... and I seethe.

I said it once before, and I'll say it again: If our government doesn't get serious about ridding us of this external AND internal menace, then watch what happens once the first two or three shopping malls are shot up by muslims. If enough of us become convinced that those charged with our protection are unserious about the job, a move to handle it ourselves will spontaneously generate.

It'll be Cowboys & Muslims, folks, and in Triton Country, we're properly prepared for it.

Now, that's not to say we're gungho wackos - we have little kids at home and want to avoid any legal entanglements so as to be around to raise them... but at some point, if this isn't addressed soon, the calculus of the risk assessment will begin pointing toward taking personal responsibility or becoming a statistic.

8/10/2006 10:44:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Sorry Geoffgo,

I am always upfront and candid and diplomatic, and I still manage to agitate and irritate.

8/10/2006 11:02:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

New US flight security targets soda, hair gel.

It's like we're being attacked by Joker-Brand Products.

8/10/2006 11:08:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Attacked by the off-brands--har--wish i could laff--that's funny !

8/10/2006 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger redaktør said...

President Bush said the arrests are a “stark reminder” that the U.S. is “at war with Islamic fascists.” -- LGF.


Mr Rat,

Will you now put your burka back in the closet? Somehow I doubt it.

8/10/2006 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger Michael McCanles said...

W. is probably already composing his posting on the arrest of terrorists with liquid explosives, et. in England.

I thought I'd get in early: NPR 1/2 hr. ago (my wife listens to it) broadcast a short message from Pres. Bush in which he used the phrase "Islamist Fascists." NPR then cut to its British correspondent, who stated that Britist authorities waited until the last minute, when they were sure that the people--already under surveillance for a long time--were ready to make their move. He explained this as required by the need to take into account the feelings of the U.K.'s muslim population. As he pointed out, authorities in the U. K. would never use the phrase "Islamist Fascist, as President Bush just did."

Translation: British are already dhimmi. Can they any more be depended on as allies? Or is this just a question of differing standards of courtesy and etiquette, where Bush can be depended on the do the gauche thing?

8/10/2006 11:14:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

redaktør you obviously do not read what DR says or do not understand it, but to make a punk ass remark like you did speaks more to the author than the intended.

8/10/2006 11:19:00 AM  
Blogger redaktør said...

2164,

Riiiight. Is there a war that burka hasn't lost already?

8/10/2006 11:24:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

Al Qaeda can’t do much to muck up the current conflict in Lebanon but should peace break out they will have some friction to exploit. Maybe Al Qaeda’s strength is fomenting internecine warfare and civil unrest.

8/10/2006 11:26:00 AM  
Blogger ex-democrat said...

DR - another "Mohammedan strike" that was not "waiting in the wings"?

8/10/2006 11:30:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

As many as 10 more suspects are being "urgently" sought in the UK, according to Fox.

One of my fears is that Al'Qaeda will figure out the utility of the red herring and the value of redundancy.

If one can affect the spotlight, one can affect the shadows.

How many simultaneous, parallel plots would be needed before the success of one was guaranteed? Right now I would be watching the trains. Closely.

8/10/2006 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger mbuckl1 said...

Wait...so is it supposed to be Peres kissing Abbas? Or Clinton? Or is it Clinton kissing Abbas?

I don't get it.

8/10/2006 11:55:00 AM  
Blogger geoffgo said...

So when we try the 24 captured by the Brits so far, do the defense attorneys get to ask for the Paki intel source, as part of full disclosure?

Or can we just hang'em?

8/10/2006 12:04:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

There are ten missing suspects. This is an active immediate threat. Lives can currently be at risk. Do you push the little bastard to the floor, put your knee to his face, grab him by the ear, and put a cocked pistol into his mouth or do you reason with him?

8/10/2006 12:09:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

He was going to blow up jetliners over the Atlantic? With human beings aboard? Waterboard his worthless ass in battery acid. When ACLU hollers, waterboard them, too.

8/10/2006 12:13:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy,

I don’t know about you, but I’d feel more secure if Muslims were barred from flights instead of toiletries.

Obviously, if we just must permit travel by Muslims, other than by foot to concentration camps, how about installing special screening for admitted Muslims and stereotyping the scofflaws. Stereotyping!? You bet. Stereotyping has impeccable evolutionary credentials.

The pictures I’m seeing are more of the same nonsense. Perfectly harmless European, American, and Western travelers are discarding their person property, docilely, so the governments of the West don’t have to admit the obvious: Muslims are not to be trusted unattended in airports any more than an uncaged Rottweiler.

Security should be looking for young men of obvious Muslim descent. And if we really want to be diverse, add young Muslim women to the mix as well.

Some will immediately scream, “That’s not fair!!!”

They are so right – so what?

And did I say “concentration camps”? Yes, I did. What I did NOT say was death camps.

Since Muslim families and the Islamic “community” cannot police themselves, society must take up the burden. These people have to be constantly watched and supervised. I’d prefer that happen somewhere other than in the airport, freeway, mall, and arena.

For those unwilling to accept Western accommodations, I suggest a mega-garage sale and a return to place of origin.

8/10/2006 12:14:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

We have to evolve, people.

8/10/2006 12:14:00 PM  
Blogger SnakeInTheWoodpile said...

I was listening to a live broadcast of Michael Chertoff, Homeland Security director this morning and in response to a reporter's question, he said he wouldn't describe what exactly the bombs were to be made of because he didn't want to give any recipes to would-be terrorists. I thought at the time; what's the over/under in days until the New York Times publishes all known possible recipes for liquid bombs?

My guess is 2 1/2.

8/10/2006 12:22:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

Goodie, goodie, goodie! Oh, happy day!

Ceasefire in works

“Senior Israeli official: Revised UN Resolution will stop short of requiring peacekeepers to disarm Hizbullah”

Wow, Dr. Rice and Mr. Olmert do drive a hard bargain. I hope they are not this tough when I try to sell that bridge.

http://www.ynetnews.com/
articles/0,7340,L-3289493,
00.html

8/10/2006 12:26:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

We have to evolve, people.

The threshold is approaching.

I spoke to my girlfriend and her business partner a second ago, as they were on their way out to the airport. After talking about the threat, a serious conversation ensued.

Now these are both decent individuals, who just want to live a normal, healthy long life and let others do the same -- normal American girls who had never thought about harming anybody else, well-steeped in the maxim that groups should not be held accountable for individual actions.

"We may have to kill them all" is now their earnest belief.

Just from these an other anecdotes, it must be concluded that across a wide swath of the Western world, severe retribution is now a desire in search of an excuse.

8/10/2006 12:31:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy,

re: "evolve"

Or devolve, as the case warrants, but survive by any means.

8/10/2006 12:32:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Could vacation in Maui, and talk to Frank, who greets the public at a Hotel in Wailea, about when he was a policeman in New York and lost his brother, a Fireman in the WTC in 2001.

More distant, but more timely, you could talk to him about when he was a Marine, back in 1983 in Beirut, when he was one of the few in the building that got out alive.

8/10/2006 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

allen wrote:

"I don’t know about you, but I’d feel more secure if Muslims were barred from flights instead of toiletries.

Obviously, if we just must permit travel by Muslims, other than by foot to concentration camps, how about installing special screening for admitted Muslims and stereotyping the scofflaws. Stereotyping!? You bet. Stereotyping has impeccable evolutionary credentials.

The pictures I’m seeing are more of the same nonsense. Perfectly harmless European, American, and Western travelers are discarding their person property, docilely, so the governments of the West don’t have to admit the obvious: Muslims are not to be trusted unattended in airports any more than an uncaged Rottweiler.

Security should be looking for young men of obvious Muslim descent. And if we really want to be diverse, add young Muslim women to the mix as well.

Some will immediately scream, “That’s not fair!!!”

They are so right – so what?"


hmmm, and allen since you are such a defender of Israel I would have thought that you might have recognized the similarities in your 'plan' for muslims to similar progroms in the past. Obviously you do note the similarity but you think you are absolved because you would stop at 'death camps'. Quite appalling really.

8/10/2006 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger Simon said...

DR, Aristides

RE Joe Schwartz

Pat Toomey's group, Club for Growth, painted a target on Schwartz. CFG focusses on spending, government growth and taxes. They support primary candidates that they like on those issues in safe Republican districts. Schwartz's loss had nothing to do with Iraq.

8/10/2006 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

I know, Buddy, that you were being "facetious;" but, for those first-time readers, let me point out that a necessary part of evolution is a good Darwinistic cleaning-up of the gene pool, from time to time.

8/10/2006 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Leave it to Ash to waddle through the vile to find indignation and be appalled. Just had to go and find the Jewish angle.

8/10/2006 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger Mollie said...

You know what? I am REALLY REALLY tired of reading about "devout" Muslims and "spiritual leaders" of the Muslim "faith" and "holy" Muslim mosques.

We NEVER see the Pope called "devout", or the Vatican described as "holy", or your local priests or ministers as "spiritual" leaders. And forgeddabout any such descriptives applied to yer basic Baptist or (gawdhelpus) MORMON.

And now, apparently old Ahminwhatever is a "devout" Muslim. (I just ran by this as Powerline).

8/10/2006 12:52:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Why don't we promote "Muslim men-only" flights. They wouldn't have to look at those disgusting pregnant women, or sit beside satanic, descended-from-pigs and monkeys, pork-eating infidels. The airplanes could be drones, flown by remote control, with a self-detonation device, in case one should "mysteriously" wander off flight plan.

Look fella's, we might as well let our imaginations run wild, because we're just a generation (at the very most) away from the next great World-Wide War of Religions. We're just killing time, waiting for the show to start, right now.

8/10/2006 12:55:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

devolve/evolve, definition depends on which best supports survival.

Look at ancient art/architecture--can we build Greco/Roman beauty anymore? Nope--we've devolved aesthetically already.

It's like rat's quote from the essay on Japan's western stress. It was pure Marxist dialectic--but it--the essay--seemed 'evolved', as in, evolution "should" make us more and more concerned with quality-of-life, and quality-of-life "must" always focus on the next defined problem.

So, Japan, wealthy, powerful, privileged, important, peaceful, just, accomplished, free, creative, and altogether a total success, still, has this up-tic in male suicide, related to competition. And it's no lie, I'm sure.

It's just, well, stupid to dwell on--as if there was no competitive stress in fighting over a mastodon leg by the water-hole.

8/10/2006 12:55:00 PM  
Blogger James Kielland said...

Aristides wrote:

"Just from these an other anecdotes, it must be concluded that across a wide swath of the Western world, severe retribution is now a desire in search of an excuse."

That was worth repeating.

8/10/2006 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

ash,

re: "appalling"

I'm sure the Muslim "community" will be appalled, as well. That should give you comfort.

As to similarities, the closest parallel would be the Boer Wars. If you see others, do feel free to be specific.

Oh, ash, I like to think myself a Westerner, who defends all Westerners and their values. I make no apology for my lack of sympathy with the cretins of Islam.

8/10/2006 12:56:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Ash says that firemen shouldn't use hoses because they were once used on blacks.

8/10/2006 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

2164th,

The rise of anti-semitism in the period before Hitler's ascension to power is an interesting period of history that one sees reflected in many of the opinions expressed here. Some muslims are extremists therefore all muslims should be persecuted. Should we treat all Christians based on the views and actions of Pat Robertson and Jim Bakker? Obviously not yet you would think someone so 'attuned' to the Jews would see the parallels. I guess Allen has let rip as Mel Gibson did. At least Mel had alcohol as an excuse, what's yours allen?

8/10/2006 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger Jim said...

A good Christian friend wrote me saying, "but i think we should bomb the hell out of pakistan and the rest of them over there....they are hate filled, insane murderers and its not just some of them...even the ones born and educated in the us or england are the same...that interview we saw with some young ladies..late teens...all american born muslims..who were praising the suicide bombers...scared the H outta me...thats what they are taught apparently..."

There's about 1.2 billion of 'them'. I asked if she wants to kill them all, or just the adults.
I think we are off to never-never land.

8/10/2006 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger luc said...

With the risk of offending everybody in BC I will say that we are like a group of people standing on a rail line while a freight train is approaching after havin long wistled in the distance. We are debating the speed of the train, its length, its weight, some even venture guesses regarding the age, religion or marital status of the engineer; all quite amusing and very interesting. The debate has reached the point where some wonder if there is a signal somewhere in between the train and where we are standing which, if red, might stop the train. Again, this seems very wise because if the train stops we are not going to get hit. But, unless the signal stays red for ever, which in reality never happens, the train will start again and those standing on the track will get hit.
Unless somebody takes steps to take control on the train or derail it, that train will hit us all.
Now, we can debate what freight is in wagon22, or derail the train. What do you think we will do?

8/10/2006 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

2164th,

Re: Jewish angle

Ash didn't really find any angle other than that of Islam.

I am waiting for those specific examples by Ash of how my commentary is directly proximate the Jewish experience.

8/10/2006 01:00:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Staring in Disbelief: Turns out that Harry Hopkins was a Soviet Agent. He really was. So we gave the USSR most of Europe.

Here is an idea: If Muslims want Muslim-only beaches, and Muslim-only days at amusement parks, then we should have Muslim-only international airline flights. They could be subsidized by the Saudis and other rollin-in-dough OPEC states and given low fuel prices as well. There would be no inspections of the passengers. Instead, the airliners would be escorted out and in by fighters. Or better yet, take a page from us at the Cape and put destruct systems in the airliners that could be activated by coded signals sent by specially modulating the ATC radars.

All airliners flying under the flags of Islamic nations would also be equipped with destruct systems.

Let's see how they like that approach. They want to be different, "separate and more than equal" so let us let them.

8/10/2006 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

More pASHionate moral relativism.

How many nations has Pat Robertson and Jim Bakker threatened to destroyed? God hates you ASH and wants you dead. I’m on Gods side. You probably have a T-Shirt that says “I’m with stupid”, seems about your pedantic way.

8/10/2006 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Ash,

There is no equivalency between Islam and anything. Even a mental gymnast as yourself cannot make that trapeze bar. Mel Gibson has a better chance at getting invited to a Bar Mitzvah than you selling that dead fish here.

8/10/2006 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

ash,

re: rise of Hitler

Please provide a single instance during Hitler's rise to power or thereafter, when a Jew physically threatened Germany or Germans. Your argument, if it can charitably be called that, rests upon finding that offending Jew.

I have noticed in the past that each time I place you or C4 in the position of putting up or shutting up, you chose the latter.

8/10/2006 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Rye, see my 12:55

Talk about "Great Minds," yada yada?

8/10/2006 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Ash, if a swamp in your backyard starts germinating pestilence and disease, and thereafter one of your kids dies from some mosquito-born virus, you drain the swamp.

To hell with the wildlife. If the swamp is not self-correcting on a time scale that is reasonable, that's just too bad for the fishes. Me and mine come first.

8/10/2006 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

Allen wrote:

“I am waiting for those specific examples by Ash of how my commentary is directly proximate the Jewish experience.”

You really want it do you…ok, here goes:

Allen wrote:

“Obviously, if we just must permit travel by Muslims, other than by foot to concentration camps, how about installing special screening for admitted Muslims and stereotyping the scofflaws.”


“The figures of death, destruction and deportation are staggering, and yet they were only a prelude of horror to come as new regulations robbed Jews of property and posession, and the right to travel freely. The times of intimidation and pressure to emmigrate were passing as the Star of David once again marked the outsiders and more than 30,000 Jewish males were deported. Now Hitler's more sinister designs loomed on the horizon. (Rogasky 29).”

http://holocaust.hklaw.com/essays/1998/983.htm

Allen wrote:

“Perfectly harmless European, American, and Western travelers are discarding their person property, docilely, so the governments of the West don’t have to admit the obvious: Muslims are not to be trusted unattended in airports any more than an uncaged Rottweiler.”

Although few Germans matched Hitler's zealous and perverse hatred of Jews, the Fatherland was deeply rooted in anti-Semitic sentiment. In fact, proud citizens of the state, with notable exceptions, showed indifference at best to the gross injustice that had come to rule the streets and government of Germany. The Fuhrer's exploitation of this general spirit of malice was influential in his rise to power among the fickle masses of bitter Germans and soon found destructive expression after he was sworn in as Chancellor on January 30, 1933. (Leckie 49)
During the early months of that pivotal year, affiliates of the omnipresent Nazi party incited riots, assaulting Jews with violence and vandalism. Encouraged by the Gestapo's covert acts of terrorism and by Herman Goering's refusal to "make the police guardians of Jewish department stores." (Rogasky 35)
http://holocaust.hklaw.com/essays/1998/983.htm

Allen wrote:

“And did I say “concentration camps”? Yes, I did.”

Maybe you get my drift now?

8/10/2006 01:17:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

2164 and Texas, if we get into religious cleansing of Islams please send me an invite.

Well, after mailing cookies to the troops this morning and working out I finally made it here.

Then DR's potent link about Mr. Baker was a damn good link..thank you sir.
I got to think'in that, well that ole saying ..... a camel is a horse designed by a committee and by golly that's what George needs..Baker's camel..I mean after all we're fight'in in camel country so it just makes good sense to employ the native flora and fauna.
So I read the link and figured , yep, being a US ally does have it's down side..we've forgotten how to win just like when Kissenger made the deal with Ho and Giap to allow the US a "descent interval" to withdrwal and "save face". Of course we left behind about six to ten thousand South Vietnamese we'd promised to get out. Such are the fortunes of war.
Then the last sentence of the linked article came up..kinda reminded me of April 1975 in Saigon..read it and weep.

"The object of our policy has to be to get our little white asses out of there as soon as possible," another working-group participant told me. To do that, he said, Baker must confront the president "like the way a family confronts an alcoholic. You bring everyone in, and you say, 'Look, my friend, it's time to change.'"

Pitiful.

8/10/2006 01:19:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

There is "no equvalence" between Islam and any other major religion. Islam is a Barbaric, Murderous, Hate-filled theology that has at it's core conquest, and servitude (if not death) of the followers of All other theologies.

This Murderous, Agressive movement is Not Compatible with Civilization. It will have to be out-lawed, and it's practitioners destroyed, eventually.

8/10/2006 01:20:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Why are 2nd and 3rd Gen Muslims willing to kill fellow citizens, and say Islam is higher priority?

Well, blame the religion, but also blame many more culpable parties than ISlam.

We live in a world where the intelligensia and Ruling Elites tell us the future of Mankind is instantaneous communications, and no nations or borders stopping "Freedom" - of free flow of capital, jobs, resources, labor to where the owners of such can optimally exploit their use.

We are told patriotism is archaic, that nations are artificial and a "respectable Elite" holds several citizenships. That multinational corporations workers and execs have no loyalty to
the nation(s) they are citizens of, and may work directly against those nations because the higher loyalty is to the firm. "Cosmopolitans" like some Jews and certain nations citizens with wide expat communities - maintain they owe no allegiance but to the country that currently offers the maximum safety, money-making opportunities..as long as they are free to go as soon as a better "deal" happens....

All well and good, as long we recognize that if nations go, we will have to have a replacement Central Organizing Principle.

1. Transnationals like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Kenneth Roth of Human Rights Watch envision International law replacing or supplanting national Constitutions.

2. British Pakistanis, and many many Islamics in other countries have the answer - Islam. Islam and Islamic Law can be supreme over all - thus Believers owe no loyalty to any nation, only to their fellow Believers.

3. Europe has the idea that voters of nations are imperfect vessels and the best government comes from Ministry Elites from the finest schools making the most important decisions.

4. The old transnationalist dream was "Only the UN has total moral authority" - since all nations have a vote.

5. As a counterbalance to Islam, Lev Bronstein and the Bolsheviks offered the religion of borderless, transnational communism....lately in ill-repute...which is why the Left now flocks to the UN, elite intelligensia ruling, or the UN.

In many Western nations, until quite recently as "multi-culti", wealthy citizen of the world, and "tolerance" arose as concepts - we thought the issue was settled that nations were the best vehicle to represent a people. Not perfect, but recognizing that Japan has it's own way and Tanzania's UN delegates or Jewish-financed Leftist NGOs, or Arab masses have no business ordering about the Japanese or passing laws they must obey.

Where nationhood is weak - where patriotism and loyalty are laughed at as bad jokes - is where banuiels burn, where wealthy owners burn their countries national security secrets, where lobbies undermine their own nations policies to favor a foreign nation or people they favor more, where UK Pakis say it is cool to kill fellow British citizens just as long as they are infidels they have no fellowship with.

If we wish to stop this, we must bolster national loyalty and show or push to the exit door - anyone who says they have a "higher loyalty" to their religion, ethnicity, employer, or what Global Leader Kofi Amman wants.

Otherwise, pick your new "Central Organizing Principle" that replaces nationhood as the primary governing unit.

*Islam?
*Kofi & Friends?
*Lefty Expert International Bureaucrats and Lawyers?
*Communism?
*Transnational Corporate Cronyism?

If we pick nations and strengthen them - we will have to insist that everyone obeys the rules and has no foreign loyalty, or higher loyalty to overseas religious leaders. Or they will have to be cleansed out of our midst...

8/10/2006 01:22:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

And, I don't want to hear any more non-sense about "Moderate" Muslims." There Cannot be a "Moderate" Muslim. By definition: If you are a follower of this Murderous Ideology, YOU CANNOT, BY DEFINITION, BE "MODERATE."

8/10/2006 01:23:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

ash,

Just to show you that I am in the mainstream of Jewish ethics, as this is written, Israel holds thousands of bipedal Muslim placentas in prison.

To the growing dissatisfaction of the Islamic "community" and fellow travelers, Jews find this preferable to having three beautiful, young medical students/interns blown to bits over coffee.

By the way, in your vast absorption of German history, do you recall an incident of a Jew committing upon helpless German students murder-suicide?

8/10/2006 01:23:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

That "fire-hose" analogy--David Warren used a 'fire hose' to illustrate our 911 reaction. He said the western left had so rotted our fire hose that it was only good for one good spurt on the fires of 911, then it fell apart in our hands.

8/10/2006 01:23:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

CAIR Cares
{…}
"The American Muslim community has always been dedicated to the protection of our national security. It is also important that our fellow Americans understand that Muslims are law-abiding citizens who should not be targeted or singled out because of their faith or national origin.

"We have been contacted by federal law enforcement authorities who are taking steps to ensure that there is no backlash against the American Muslim community. We commend them for their pro-active efforts. We ask local Muslim communities to step up security measures at mosques and other Islamic institutions. We also urge local law enforcement agencies to coordinate with Muslim leaders to deter hate crimes.

"It is important, based on past counterterrorism cases that did not lead to terror convictions, that we withhold judgment until all the facts of this case come to light. We also ask public officials and commentators to avoid using stereotypical and ill-defined terminology when referring to this and similar cases.

"As the largest American Muslim civil rights and advocacy group, it is our religious and civic duty to reach out to all Americans to reaffirm Islam's teachings of peace, justice and tolerance for all."

http://www.cair.com/

We really need to understand these poor misunderstood people better.

8/10/2006 01:31:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

This is what I like about farming--tough as it can be--the land don't talk back :)(Combine busted--sitting here waiting for a part).

8/10/2006 01:32:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Of course, the reference is to western institutions, which, save for the military, have been largely "progressivized". Now, when challenged, all that 'progress' is looking like maybe it wasn't really 'progress' at all.

8/10/2006 01:33:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

ash; 1:17 PM

Ash, try to wrap your head around this simple fact: the Jews were INNOCENT!!!!

The Islamic "community" keeps giving us thousands of homicidal GUILTY!!!! maniacs.

Jews have never asked more than to live quitely in peace, INNOCENTLY tending their gardens.

Muslims have never lived anywhere in peace and cannot be satisfied unless they MURDEROUSLY take your garden.

8/10/2006 01:33:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

"The crux of the problem in Lebanon is that a political movement became bigger than the state – not far behind a state takeover in the manner of the Taliban in Afghanistan before 2001. The same syndrome – a perceived lack of legitimacy of governments that are being challenged by armed political movements – can be seen in many Arab and Muslim states. The challenge today is therefore not just to achieve a ceasefire and a sustainable solution in Lebanon, but to secure a more comprehensive framework for peace in the Middle East that prevents the “Lebanon syndrome” from spreading throughout the region. Otherwise, there will be many Lebanons. Across the Muslim world, a civil war is raging between Islamic groups such as Hizbollah and modern states; between fundamentalists and moderates. The movements’ strategy to undermine ruling elites has been to confront the outside world, especially America and Israel. Their message is that movements can do what states failed to do, and can restore the honour that governments have squandered.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/

8/10/2006 01:36:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

Rufus,
Amen ..ain't no moderate Islams

8/10/2006 01:37:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Buddy (12:55:59 PM):

This comment confirms once again my assessment that you are a genius.


Jamie Irons

8/10/2006 01:37:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hedgecock talked about a Shiite who got out of So. Lebanon in 2000, telling about hezbos building a bunker/rocket depot underground, then building a school and a residence on top.

...looking forward to today, when Al-Reuters et al can crow about the evil Zionists.
---

Also that Scotland Yard delayed telling CIA, cause they did not want to spoil the secret.
---

Sweet thoughts:
Novangli said...
"German submarines sitting off the coast of Iran and Lebanon with nuclear tipped cruise missiles?"
John Samford said...
"A 10 warhead MIRV on Tehran and the WoT goes up in the W column."

Progress could again become our most important product.

8/10/2006 01:38:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The good doctor is delusional!

8/10/2006 01:39:00 PM  
Blogger skipsailing said...

Reading the comment here a question comes to mind. Why is it that we never hear any of the erstwhile defenders of Islam express concern that these endless provocations will result in a backlash?

CAIR is out there doing the PR damage control but it seems that between the outright aggression ala Nasrallah and the all to frequent reports of interupted plots western civilization is being pushed to a tipping point.

what happens when the majority of people simply "want them all dead". It's ugly and I know that Ash will object, but after all we're the only ones to have dropped the bomb in anger.

Is the goal of the Muslims to get us to that point for the sake of some expected mystic experience? Or is it the case that there are simply so many independant operations occuring that we see this for what it is?

Ultimately 12.31.1938 came and the appeasers lost thier grip on the reins of power.

Will that happen now? When?

8/10/2006 01:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

simon 12:44:11 PM is correct.

8/10/2006 01:43:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

From the Pew Poll:
Majorities in Great Britain, France, Canada, the U.S. and Russia, as well as pluralities in Spain and Poland, say they have a somewhat or very favorable view of Muslims. In the West, only among the Dutch and Germans does a majority or plurality hold unfavorable views of Muslims (51% and 47%, respectively).

For their part, people in predominantly Muslim countries have mixed views of Christians and strongly negative views of Jews. In Lebanon, which has a large Christian minority, 91% of the public thinks favorably of Christians. Smaller majorities in Jordan and Indonesia also have positive views of Christians. However, in Turkey (63%), Morocco (61%) and Pakistan (58%), solid majorities express negative opinions of Christians.

Anti-Jewish sentiment is endemic in the Muslim world. In Lebanon, all Muslims and 99% of Christians say they have a very unfavorable view of Jews. Similarly, 99% of Jordanians have a very unfavorable view of Jews. Large majorities of Moroccans, Indonesians, Pakistanis and six-in-ten Turks also view Jews unfavorably.

In the Asian countries surveyed, views of religious groups are generally more moderate. India, with its substantial Muslim minority, is closely divided with respect to views about Muslims; 46% hold a favorable view while 43% view them unfavorably. Opinions of Christians are considerably higher: 61% favorable compared with 19% unfavorable. Most Indians (56%) offer no opinion on Jews; those that do split 28% favorable to 17% unfavorable.

In China, half view Muslims unfavorably while only 20% hold a favorable opinion. Views about Christians are scarcely better: 47% unfavorable compared with 26% favorable. Chinese views of Jews are essentially the same as their attitudes toward Christians: 49% negative vs. 28% positive.

In most of Europe as well as North America, majorities or pluralities judge some religions as more prone to violence than others, and those that do mostly have Islam in mind. Similarly, in India, among the 39% who see some religions as more violent than others, nearly three-in-four (73%) point to Islam, while 17% designate Hinduism. In predominantly Muslim countries, many agree that some religions are more prone to violence than others, but those who think this mostly have Judaism in mind. In Turkey, a plurality sees Christianity as the most violent.

8/10/2006 01:46:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

The sitzpinklers have no understanding of history, no moral certitude to prioritize their outcomes, and absolutely no comprehension of the building anger.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored,
He has loosed the fateful lightening of His terrible swift sword
His truth is marching on.

Folks like Ash will rue the day they go to sleep hearing those words.

8/10/2006 01:46:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

rwe,
it wasn't just harry hopkins, commie, it was a huge portion of the upper eschelon of the State Department.
FDR thought he could "romance Stalin" and sold out at Yalta. The names are now out in the public domain..we were alive with fellow travellers.
Of course Yalta is in the Ukraine but did FDR ask Stalin about the 1931-32 Harvest of Sorrow..hell no..we sold out.

8/10/2006 01:48:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

Mutually Assured Destruction doesn’t work if they think you’re too much of a pussy to use them. Iran wants nukes? Let’s give them to them. We need to put the deterrence back in MAD and AhMADinejad should be in the center of the world’s largest ground zero. Let the region be a hot zone. The US can best exploit its oil fields robotically if it is truly a “no-mans” land. Maybe we can get Ash a diplomatic post in Tehran first.

8/10/2006 01:50:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

2164 and Texas, if we get into religious cleansing of Islams please send me an invite.

Well, after mailing cookies to the troops this morning and working out I finally made it here.

Then DR's potent link about Mr. Baker was a damn good link..thank you sir.
I got to think'in that, well that ole saying ..... a camel is a horse designed by a committee and by golly that's what George needs..Baker's camel..I mean after all we're fight'in in camel country so it just makes good sense to employ the native flora and fauna.
So I read the link and figured , yep, being a US ally does have it's down side..we've forgotten how to win just like when Kissenger made the deal with Ho and Giap to allow the US a "descent interval" to withdrwal and "save face". Of course we left behind about six to ten thousand South Vietnamese we'd promised to get out. Such are the fortunes of war.
Then the last sentence of the linked article came up..kinda reminded me of April 1975 in Saigon..read it and weep.

"The object of our policy has to be to get our little white asses out of there as soon as possible," another working-group participant told me. To do that, he said, Baker must confront the president "like the way a family confronts an alcoholic. You bring everyone in, and you say, 'Look, my friend, it's time to change.'"

Pitiful.

8/10/2006 01:53:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

Buddy: Your 12:13 comment. My goodness!

LOL

8/10/2006 01:55:00 PM  
Blogger Steel&Fire&Stone said...

I don't think Muslims as a whole know the dangerous game they play by not using this time to distinguish themselves from the killers.

You are correct. After a nuclear, bio, or chem strike on U.S. soil, after 10,000, 100,000, or a million are dead or injured, the perp is identifiably Muslim, and Muslims are dancing in the street and distributing sweets around the world, what do "non-radical" Muslims assume will happen? Do they think that the U.S.A. will simply all "convert", that shira law will be adopted throughout the land, or that the world will be come one large caliphate from east to west? The U.S. response toward Muslims will make Manzanar, Abu Grab, and Gitmo look like Club Med.

Well, option 1 is: These "ordinary" Muslims don't think. They are too dense to figure it out.

Option 2: These "ordinary" Muslims (e.g. C.A.I.R) reflexively respond with counter-attacks on Americans for imagined slights after Muslims actually attack us, because they identify in some way with their "radicalized" brothers. In fact, they would consider any reasonable American response to intern them or otherwise segregate them as THEIR own Jihad.

Option 2 makes more sense than option 1, which is why I trust no Muslim, not one. Islam is the problem. Well, I've got a message for them.

Hey Muslims: I WILL NOT submit!!

I do not hate Muslims. They hate me for my very existance. I take them at their word; they do mean to kill my family and countrymen. However, I will fight until the last Muslim quits or dies (and long AFTER the next Democrat President flys a white flag).

8/10/2006 01:57:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

2164th,

It is not a matter of equivalency between Islam and the Jews but rather similarities between how whole groups of people are treated based on the actions of a few.

8/10/2006 01:59:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

Allen, 12:26
Re: Peacekeepers not being required to disarm Hesbullah. That's what I reported here last night.

My question is: If this is what they finally agree to which I doubt, do they honestly think they will get Israel to agree?

8/10/2006 01:59:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

AnnoyMouse,

I get at least as irritated with Ash as you do (I think).

And I am as angry at the Muslim killers as anyone here.

But I think this remark is out of line:

Maybe we can get Ash a diplomatic post in Tehran first.

(I leave open the possibility that you were kidding.)

Jamie Irons

8/10/2006 01:59:00 PM  
Blogger Steel&Fire&Stone said...

Aristides said...

"I don't think Muslims as a whole know the dangerous game they play by not using this time to distinguish themselves from the killers."

Sorry, the lead sentence in my previous post was supposed to be a quote.

SFS.

8/10/2006 02:00:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Jeez, Jamie--thanks for the sudden rush of performance anxiety--
But, really, what we are up against in this meme war is the myth of the noble savage--as if the enemy's crowded mental ghetto is a better place than our own imperfect works.

8/10/2006 02:10:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Anybody who has ever bruised his cheek with his thumb will appreciate this.

Battle Hymn of the Republic

8/10/2006 02:23:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

I apologize. Sending Ash to Tehran would be inhumane. The Iranians deserve better.

8/10/2006 02:27:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

ash; 1:59 PM

Do you ever think before writing, or do you just free associate? I ask because to 2164th you wrote,

“It is not a matter of equivalency between Islam and the Jews but rather similarities between how whole groups of people are treated based on the actions of a few.”

Ash, what is it you think a “few” Jews did that brought the wrath of the German Reich down upon the entirety of European Jewry?

It is you, ash, who is mired in the absurd, obscene trap of equivalency. Islam is the implacable enemy of the West. The Islamic “community” sends forth flights of its sons daily to prove the point.

8/10/2006 02:30:00 PM  
Blogger skipsailing said...

the analogy for ash is the prisons. It is statistically possible that of the entire population of prisoners some fraction might in fact be innocent? Yes, but which ones?

although we've tried our best to seperate the guilty from the innocent we're imperfect humans using flawed processes and occassionally an innocent person is sent to jail.

Following Ash's logic, since there might be an individual in the prison population that is not guilty, all of the prisoners should be considered not guilty.

The opposing argument I'm reading here is that we are fast reaching the point where we no longer care about such distinctions. We will have been threatened, intimidated and murdered enough to be beyond the reach of such academic discussions.

"Kill them all" might very well become the new theme. Would that be ugly? yes it would and as aristede said, now is the time for muslims to demonstrate which side they are on.

8/10/2006 02:32:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

whit,

You have seen this? If you have already posted the site, pardon.

Will Israel agree to the alleged UN resolution, leaving in place an armed Hezbollah?

A year ago, a month ago, I would have thought not.

Today, I think Mr. Olmert is so anxious to extricate himself from the distraction of Lebanon that he would agree to anything.

As each day passes, with further rumor of Mr. Olmert's challenged leadership, his political survival is in doubt.

Why he has not yet been more severely criticized by the opposition is something of a mystery.

Analysis: Government and IDF racked by unprecedented leadership crisis
By Jonathan Ariel August 9, 2006

http://web.israelinsider.com/
Articles/Politics/9116.htm

8/10/2006 02:45:00 PM  
Blogger Bridget said...

Whit,

I had the rare opportunity about a year ago to host 3 business associates of my husband's for dinner in my home. One was Chinese (atheist), one was Indian (raised as a Hindu, but basically agnostic), and a Brit expat living in Dubai. I was amused to see the great interest both the Chinese gentleman and the Indian gentleman took in the experiences of the expat in Dubai. Many questions about women's dress, in particular, which rather surprised me.

I got the distinct impression that both men were just about as wary as I am of the potential for fundamentalist islam to wreak havoc in their world.

On a lighter note, my husband subsequently visited Dubai and came back very favorably impressed.

8/10/2006 02:45:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

peterboston,

in reviewing yesterdays comments AFTER i signed off for the night i noticed one from you.

something about running and Parris Island.

ROTFLMAO

8/10/2006 02:48:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

Raúl: an assassin and international terrorist who made a fortune from the illegal sale of arms, drugs, and human beings.

8/10/2006 02:49:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

I'm quite amazed that so many of you are seriously advocating genocide.

8/10/2006 02:50:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

Here's a fairly comprehensive roundup and expose on the Lebanon photo fraud:
http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/

8/10/2006 02:51:00 PM  
Blogger luc said...

peterboston 02:23:08 PM

Stirring version of beautiful hymn!

It also gave me a hint of a possible answer to my 12:59:07 PM post: Let’s tie Ash on the rail line and we all leave ;)

8/10/2006 02:56:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Question: How deep does the blood-pool have to be, before those who are so open-minded that their brains have fallen out, realize that moral-equivalence is *not* neutral?

PB, thanks for that--I put the earphones on, loud, and it did what that song always does. Strong medicine. It came from the darkest days of the Civil War, as you no-doubt know.

8/10/2006 02:57:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

Allen:
Olmert's on the hot seat. If he wants to stay in the seat he'll have to toughen up. Israelis are unified against Hesbollah. Netanyahu and others have been biting their tongues and presenting a united front. If Olmert shows more timidity he can kiss his office goodbye.

8/10/2006 02:59:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

PeterBoston:
There's no friggin' way that was the US Army Band making that kind of music.:)

8/10/2006 03:01:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Ash, no, only hoping to direct it if we can't escape it. Don't worry, someone will protect you, while you sit on your lofty fence looking down on it all.

8/10/2006 03:02:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

gen•o•cide:
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

“As a devout Shiite Muslim, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is telling colleagues in Tehran that he believes the end of the world is rapidly approaching. He also believes that the way to hasten the coming of the Islamic Messiah known as the “Hidden Imam” or the “Mahdi” is to launch a catastrophic global jihad, first against Israel (the “little Satan”) and then against the U.S. (the “Great Satan”).”


“Ahmadinejad gave a speech vowing to wipe Israel “off the map” forever.”

I can believe that Ash is mollycoddling murderous tyrants who, unlike a bunch of Belmont Club gadflies, actually is a head of state and is capable of delivering what he promises.

“Iran signed a $1 billion deal with Russia to buy missiles and others weapons.”

Pork Lips Now

I am amazed that anyone would be so amazed.

8/10/2006 03:02:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Peter Boston, thanks for the link. I had to take my glasses off twice. Big sissy that I am.

8/10/2006 03:02:00 PM  
Blogger redaktør said...

Ash said: "I'm quite amazed that so many of you are seriously advocating genocide."


Why are you surprised, Ash? We advocated thermonuclear war against the Soviets. That was stated policy of both democratic and republican administrations, as well as NATO. What is so different about Islam and Islamists that they should receive a different treatment?

8/10/2006 03:14:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

"Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

“President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Wednesday that Israel is a "disgraceful blot" that should be "wiped off the map," prompting international condemnation and an Israeli demand Iran be expelled from the United Nations.”
ABC News

If they say they believe it, I believe they believe it. So is suicide the best way to avoid genocide? I don't plan on finding out. We must root out the enemy, foreign and domestic and put an end to this madness. Words mean things and if someone threatens to kill you you will only be safe when you beat them to it.

Ash is an unbeliever and is going to hell.

8/10/2006 03:26:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Buddy,

You just wrote:

Don't worry, someone will protect you, while you sit on your lofty fence looking down on it all...

and it reminded me of one of my favorite movies, A Few Good Men, only because your reference to "a fence" reminded me of what Jack Nicholson's character says in his wonderful peroration at the trial about someone standing at the fence (as at Gitmo) to defend the country while we more harmless types sleep soundly.

Before 9/11, Nicholson's character always made me really mad; I had some sympathy for him, and even saw him in a way as a tragic character, but I strongly disliked him. I thought his values were all askew.

After 9/11, my assessment profoundly altered. I still saw the Marine as a tragic figure, but for a different reason. The tragedy emanated not so much from his bad choice, but from his country's abandonment of him, his principles, and his very defense of his fellow citizens.

(Don't get me wrong: I still have legal apprehensions about "Code Reds" and the like, and I am all for the Rule of Law, even in the military. I just think I developed a more nuanced and detailed appreciation of the movie's complexities.

Also, as a former Navy guy, I loved Kiefer Sutherland's withering remark to Tom Cruise about how "you Navy boys" always "take us to where we have to get out and fight. ;-))


Jamie Irons

8/10/2006 03:26:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

Typifiying liberalisms inability to make moral judgments, Bishop Griswold, outgoing head of the Episcopal Church has apologised for Hiroshima But a little old Japanese Christian refuted him with:
In contrast to the surreal observations of the American bishop, a retired Japanese bishop spoke of Hiroshima with greater historical and spiritual perception. Bishop Joseph Noriaki Iida, as a teen-age naval academy student, was a witness to the atomic blast and understood what caused it.

“At that moment, I felt I deeply understood that we had chosen the way of death three years ago,” when Japan declared war on America, Bishop Iida recalled to the Episcopal News Service. Viewing a charred Hiroshima from atop a hill 61 years ago, he remembered the Scripture: “Today I lay down two ways: the way of life and the way of death; the way of blessing and the way of curse.” The glowing mushroom cloud over Hiroshima also reminded him of the pillars of cloud and fire that protected and guided the Hebrews out of ancient Egypt.

Iida said the atomic blast at Hiroshima was a cause of jubilation for the Koreans, Southeast Asians and American soldiers whom the Japanese were killing. But even for the Japanese themselves, the bombings provided freedom from totalitarianism, militarism, colonialism and racism, he said. The bomb “was God’s judgment and God’s mercy at the same time.”

Remembering a blackened Japanese history textbook at the time, in which only sentence fragments remained, Bishop Iida compared it to his realization that what he had been told about his country by Japan’s militarist dictators was “totally wrong.” After learning of Japan’s atrocities and of the Nazi Holocaust, and absorbing the Japanese Emperor’s denial of his own previously professed deity, Iida considered turning to communism.

Iida read the Bible so that he could refute Christianity. But instead he succumbed to the “love of God.” While communism had urged hatred of the bourgeoisie, he said, the “Bible said unconditional love, love against those who persecuted you, who hate you.” The Japanese bishop concluded: “Christianity is superior. That’s why I became a priest of the Anglican Church.”

8/10/2006 03:32:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

ash,

I'm off to dinner out with some fascist types, US military, just back from OCONUS. I'll be thinking of you.

Please, don't disappoint. Give me the names of those "few" bad Jews your argument demands. Otherwise, I'll be left with the feeling that you are simply a light- weight busy body and probably French.

8/10/2006 03:38:00 PM  
Blogger SarahWeddington said...

FoxNews is now reporting that the IDF pullout from Lebanon has commenced. The ceasefire will take effect in the next day or two.

Looks like I was right all along.

Ehud Olmert is a failed leader and the sooner he is remobed from office the better.

The benefit of this is that it spells the end of the nascent Kadima party.

The Likud will vault back into power and the surrender of the West Bank and Jerusalem will be halted.

8/10/2006 03:43:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Ash:

If this were 1944 and we were accused of advocating "genocide" of Nazis, then the reaction from even you would be a highly sarcastic "Gee, do ya think?" or possibly a reference to feces and Mr Holmes.

We are recommending genocide of a particular thought pattern, philosophy, meme, what have you.
No problem with Arabs. No problem with Persians, nor with the residents of the Indian Subcontinent, nor with the people of Indonesia. And none, really, with the adherents of the peaceful version of Islam; it's just that there seem to be damn few of those evident right now.

Cederford raises a very good if not very original point: Why do the parents flee to here and the children want to make bombs? And this is where it gets sticky, where we venture into That Which Must Not Be Said Aloud. The mixture of Islam and Western Leftist thought (NOT true Western Liberal thought!) is what is so deadly, and must be exterminated.

And your problem really is that you are part of that problem.

8/10/2006 03:47:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

allen, it is not a matter of a few bad jews providing justification for the progrom against all jews, the problem is that many are condemned for the actions of a few. Israel and its founders are not 'innocent as the pure driven snow' as you seem to believe but explicating a heinous deed or two committed by a jew does not therefore justify the occurances under the Third Reich. Similariy eradicating all muslims because some have created heinous acts is equally evil.

enjoy your dinner

8/10/2006 03:50:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

rwe, many here are not just railing against a meme they are advocating taking out all of Islam. There is a big difference between the two.

8/10/2006 03:52:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

How to Build a Concealed Bomb
By MSM

Produce triacetone triperoxide (TATP) First employed by Palestinian bomb makers, the highly unstable TATP — also known as the “Mother of Satan”

First discovered in 1980 in Hebron, TATP is made by mixing hydrogen peroxide, which can be bought in disinfectant form at the neighborhood pharmacy, and acetone, commonly found in paint thinners. The compound is helped along by an acid catalyst. “The liquid from your car battery or even lemon juice will do the trick,” notes Keinan. The easy recipe is not lost on the bomb makers: In just one raid in 1998, Palestinian Authority security personnel uncovered 800 kilograms of TATP in a Nablus garage.

Extreme care must be taken with samples showing signs of crystal growth or precipitates. The ease with which diethyl ether, tetrahydrofuran or ethylene glycol dimethyl ether form explosive peroxides is the reason why they tend to be avoided in industrial processes.

Caution must be executed with mixing peroxide-forming materials with oxidizing agents. Acetone peroxide, a powerful explosive, is an unwanted and dangerous byproduct of several chemical reactions, ranging from illicit synthesis of MDMA (where it is a by-product of isosafrole oxidation in acetone) to industrial production of phenol (where the second product of the cumene process, acetone, is partially oxidized to peroxide on the second reaction step).

Hide in a false bottom of a sports drink container. Use a disposable camera flash as a detonation device and fly the friendly skies.

8/10/2006 03:53:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Ash,

Are you just playing dumb? Or are you really that dumb?

(I have defended you several times on this forum.)

The problem with your "many being punished for the few" "argument" is that it is nonsensical.


Nobody questions that at least "a few" Muslims have very recently done really horrendous evil things.

It is perfectly sensible (though it may be erroneous) to argue that the majority of Muslims are entirely innocent of supporting, even in the hidden thoughts, these evil deeds.

Ergo, we should not "punish the many for the acts of the few."

You tried to set up some analogy with what happened to the Jews in Hitler's Germany.

But neither you, no anyone else, apart from anti-Semitic lunatics who supported that Holocaust, and would support another, has ever claimed that the Jews ever actually did anything that would have remotely justified putting even a small number of them to death, let alone the entire population.

My, God!

Jamie Irons

8/10/2006 04:00:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_3 said...

Today.
Do we know for sure that the Islamic "plot" was foiled?

Was it a ruse to gain greater "elint" for an even larger hit on NY or LA or London with a dirty bomb?
In the Byzantine world of intelligence what you see is rarely what you see.
Supposedly the "big" help came from a Pakistani. Could this have been done to unsettle plotters ready to assassinate Mushariff? To get a rabbit to run? To put an AQ courier in motion headed for HQ?

Certainly increased telephonic,radio, or other electronic communications took place betweeen evil-doers.

Ya know, ya just never know. Civilians are so out of the loop on intel (as it should be) that you often "feed" them.

Don't ya really wish you knew what the play was? Could all be Indonesian shadow puppets.

8/10/2006 04:02:00 PM  
Blogger redaktør said...

Substitute the Sickle for the Crescent, Ash:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_cLw6oMayc

8/10/2006 04:04:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

The German Jews of the 1930’s were by and large successful in commerce. This is their sin and why they needed to be exterminated. The have-nots didn’t have it so well and were jealous. That is why we need a National Social Party to level the playing field. I try not to engage in bASHing but have seen so many threads relegated to the ASH heap of history here that it is disconcerting that the BC should have its own mascot site pest… might as well enjoy it some. Ash is a neo-fascist ankle biter and a certified moron who would gladly smoke Ernst Rohm’s peace pipe if it insulted G.W. Bush. It is the epitome of BDS. Everyone is better than us. Ash is most likely a German transgendered goat fondler looking for BDS sympathizers and lives on moralizing others with its insouciant drivel.
---
And now, something completely different;
“The president laid the blame for the foiled attack squarely on al- Qaida-type terrorism.

"This nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom, to hurt our nation," he said, his remarks carried live on television. “
GWB

Wow, harsh words. Hope he means it.

8/10/2006 04:59:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

...nor anyone else...


***

I would like to append to what I have said:

So it is preposterous, not to say profoundly insulting, to draw any "analogy" between what the Third Reich did to Europe's Jews, and what the West may or may not do to the Islamic world.

The Jews never declared a war on Germany (they were thriving there) or anyone else at that time. Rabbis never preached in any schul that the vile Germans, the "sons of apes and pigs," should be killed. No aspiring rabbi ever clothed himself in Semtex (or the contemporary equivalent) and detonated himself in a beer hall in order to further the Jewish jihad against the Germans.

These "examples" sound ridiculous because they are ridiculous. Indeed, we have no equivalent in our recent history to the behaviors of the Islamic fanatics.

They are bringing something very bad down on their world. Many innocents (or "innocents," as the case may be) may die.


Jamie Irons

Jamie Irons

8/10/2006 04:59:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

A typical US airport has five terminals. Call them A, B.C D and E. Assume we have: Habu welcoming passengers at Terminal A,: DR , Terminal B,: Allen, Terminal C; Rufus, Terminal D; and Buddy Larsen on Terminal E. Their instructions are to welcome all passengers into that terminal and using their life experience and common sense direct obvious non- threatening passengers into Inspection Area 1, those needing additional assessment in Area 2. Does anyone doubt that 95% of passengers would be expedited through with a minimum of intrusion and the others would be respectfully given additional security? Would security be less?

8/10/2006 05:03:00 PM  
Blogger ambisinistral said...

Jamie Irons,

As ex-Navy you should know that soldiers and marines make fine ballast to keep the ships from rocking too much in rough weather. ;-)

8/10/2006 05:05:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

"In fact, our country had become an extension of Iran, and our so-called political power also served as a political and military cover for the Islamists of Teheran. We suddenly discovered that Teheran had stocked more than 12,000 missiles, of all types and calibers, on our territory and that they had patiently, systematically, organized a suppletive force, with the help of the Syrians, that took over, day after day, all the rooms in the House of Lebanon. Just imagine it : we stock ground-to-ground missiles, Zilzals, on our territory and that the firing of such devices without our knowledge, has the power to spark a regional strategic conflict and, potentially, bring about the annihilation of Lebanon.
{...}
Lebanon a victim? What a joke!

Before the Israeli attack, Lebanon no longer existed, it was no more than a hologram. At Beirut innocent citizens like myself were forbidden access to certain areas of their own capital. But our police, our army and our judges were also excluded. That was the case, for example, of Hezbollah’s and the Syrians’ command zone in the Haret Hreik quarter (in red on the satellite map). A square measuring a kilometer wide, a capital within the capital, permanently guarded by a Horla army [1], possessing its own institutions, its schools, its crèches, its tribunals, its radio, its television and, above all… its government. A “government” that, alone decided, in the place of the figureheads of the Lebanese government – in which Hezbollah also had its ministers! – to attack a neighboring state, with which we had no substantial or grounded quarrel, and to plunge US into a bloody conflict."

No Pasaran!

8/10/2006 05:06:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

2164th:

Hey, which one's my terminal?!

I'm a psychiatrist, for crying out loud!

;-(


Jamie Irons

8/10/2006 05:12:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I never got to the other shifts, pick a terminal. Forget that. You are shift captain.

8/10/2006 05:14:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Moonbattery.com/

We are tired of fighting, we are tired of being courageous, we are tired of winning, we are tired of defeating our enemies, we want that we will be able to live in an entirely different environment of relations with our enemies.

Ehud Olmert Address at Israel Policy Forum, New York, June 9, 2005

8/10/2006 05:15:00 PM  
Blogger DB2 said...

From wretchard, 15 November 2003:

"America too is at war both in the streets of Baghdad and with itself. And here all comparisons between Guderian and Osama Bin Laden cease. For the aftermath of September 11 showed that we are not in the end refighting the Second World War so much as a global Civil War; a war as much between brothers as enemies in which the stake is the fate of all mankind over the issue of slavery or freedom. We may look for a Lincoln as eagerly as the Al Qaeda await a Saladin. But in the end there is just us and uncertain destiny, as there was for men on Little Round Top who had never heard of Appomattox, where courage in doubt was the greatest kind of faith."

8/10/2006 05:18:00 PM  
Blogger enscout said...

whit:
Your 3:32...
Thanks!

8/10/2006 05:28:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Ash:
I will admit to you that we may not know how to kill the bad people and yet spare the people who only look like the bad people - or who will be bad people, or at least act like it if the bad people win. That is what our Great Experiment in Iraq is about.

But I am quite sure that if we had not killed a whole lot of Germans and Japanese and Italians and otherwise demonstrated our utter military superiority over them in WWII that those nations would not in the end have been able to handle their own bad people - or at least the ones that were left.

The "Cold War" approach we used to defeat the USSR will not work with the Islamic Facists. In a battle of wits they are unarmed - so they find another way - a hot war with a touch of plausible deniability mixed with modern Western Civil Rights style ( "I'm a Victim! I get to slice and dice my wife and the poor waiter who brought her back her property! It's only fair!") ideology.

8/10/2006 05:34:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

db2, if only that Wretchard feller could write, eh?

Re Ash, I don't think he understands what happened in Europe 40-45. It's just too much. It's too modern, it's too close, it's just too much. Words seem to work, but they don't.

8/10/2006 05:35:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

Jamie, you might consider applying for "Bartender." With a shift like that you would, no doubt, get very, very Rich.

8/10/2006 05:37:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

rwe makes that salient point--those people simply must be brought to the point where they will police their own crazies.

8/10/2006 05:43:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

ex-dem,
As to the "waiting in the wings". The prepublished aQ battle plan put a 5 or 6 year interval 'tween attacks in the USA. Check the calendar, my friend, and you'll see the five year mark has just about arrived, from 9-11-01, plus 5 is what, 44 days from today. The attacks were not yet implemented by these new detainees, so who knows their prospective schedule.

The implications are clear.
If this is a direct action aQ cell, made up of British nationals, the Battle of Iraq has done nothing to deter attacks upon US. May have, in fact, been a motivating factor for the Brits.

If these British fellows are merely fellow aQ travelers, not directly connected, then both Iraq and Afghanistan have done little to fight the virus.

The 21 players are, most likely, most of that Cell. Wonder how many other cells there are?
In France, Germany, Egypt, Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Nigeria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and England. As well as here, in the good old USA.

Or as habu noted, it all could be a false front.

8/10/2006 05:49:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

We're gonna end up flying in our skivvies. Stewardesses, too, it's only fair.

8/10/2006 05:55:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

You still get on those buses with wings. buddy.

I've put off most air travel 'til the jet taxis are on line, myself.
Did charter a jet for an OK City, Houston & Fort Worth sales swing.
Much better than taking the air bus, or driving.

8/10/2006 06:00:00 PM  
Blogger Kinuachdrach said...

Just a thought about the airline plot disrupted by the Brits --

There have been some reports that the Pakistan government provided key information, gained from a suspect they had recently arrested.

Let's suppose that, in a few days, the New York Times reveals that the Pakistan suspect yielded the information under torture -- not the "panties on the head" kind, nor even waterboarding. Genuine medieval eye-gouging testicle-crushing torture.

What then? Do Good Liberals demand that the British suspects be released, and given their bottles of "pop" back? Maybe even with an apology?

8/10/2006 06:12:00 PM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

DR,

We all seem to forget the cost of not fighting back.

After 9/11, the proper response was......?

Don't think tactically, think strategically.

Your oft repeated laments of poor execution, strategically and tactically, are probably right on the mark. But, do you see anything in this war that is correct?

How do you fight a war with one hand tied behind your back without the world seeing the reason for that war? Is the world seeing it yet? Isn't this the long war what we were told would occur? Didn't GWB see the fecklessness of our electorate? A one-term President can't fight this war, but he can start it.

8/10/2006 06:15:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Air taxis are one hot entrepreneurial space. My son's a pilot, and has lately been fiddling with a business plan. Hope it looks good to a banker--otherwise it's me, and I'll have to start that small-biz flop-sweat life again.

8/10/2006 06:16:00 PM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

"PITBULL JOURNALIST GOES SOFT ON IRANIAN MADMAN: 88-year-old CBS journalist says Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a 'reasonable' man on Sean Hannity's ABC radio program... Points out Ahmadinejad not anti-Jewish... just anti-Zionist state. Says many Jews in Iranian Parliament, in great positions in Iranian life... Believes Ahmadinejad sincere in his hope for peaceful coexistence between Iran and West... Troubled by comparisons of leader to Hitler... Marvels at Ahmadinejad's civil engineering degree, 'intellect', 'savvy'... Asks viewers not to bring 'prejudices' to Sunday night '60 MINUTES' broadcast... Proclaims 'discussion' was sincere and not for propaganda purposes... Developing..."

HT Drudge

8/10/2006 06:18:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

jamie (phsychiatrist) irons,

You are totally missing the point. Projecting maybe. I do not assert that the Jews deserved their treatment. I simply wish to point out the (should be obvious) fact that it is a mistake to condemn a whole group of people for the actions of a few of them. Some Christians have done heinous things but not all Christians should be punished. Similarily some muslims have perpetuated heinous crimes but we should not punish all 1.2 billion of them for the actions of the few. Some here, and it is appearing that you are one of them, think genocide in the case of Islam is justifiable. That is sad. If you are in that group I surely pity your patients. Maybe the pills you push are the answer, your logic isn't. By your, and Allen's logic, if I can come up with some ugly actions perpetrated by a few Jews in Germany circa 1930's, then all of Hitler and crew's actions are therefore justified - HOGWASH!

8/10/2006 06:20:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

danmyers,

As a psychiatrist, I can tell you there are few things sadder to witness than the early stages of primary senile dementia...


Jamie Irons

8/10/2006 06:23:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Ash,

That "reply" was totally pathetic.

You know nothing of me or my relationship with my patients, or even what sorts of treatment I use.

I have never advocated here or anywhere else the genocide of any group.

This:

Some here, and it is appearing that you are one of them, think genocide in the case of Islam is justifiable. That is sad. If you are in that group I surely pity your patients. Maybe the pills you push are the answer, your logic isn't...

is reprehensible, ad hominem nonsense.

You still don't get the point of how your "argument" is nonsensical.

You are a troll, and I am through with you.

Jamie Irons

8/10/2006 06:29:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

I was wrong to doubt Sarah Weddington:

Hizbullah Declares Victory...


Jamie Irons

8/10/2006 06:36:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

danmyers,
When the Army was on a roll, it should have continued.
If one looks back to the threads of '03, you'll see my closing was "On to Damascus".
The President had the electorate in his pocket. The Case was never made for an expanded War. Instead we bogged down in Iraq, by choice.
The Democracy Project started before the War was won or even over.
That was the Tactic slated to achieve Victory. Instead it has empowered our Enemies, in Iraq.

For any serious person to promote the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq as being on our side in the War on Islamic Fascist Terror proves they are not at all serious.

buddy,
Adams Aircraft has a neat taxi coming on line, someone else, Eclipse Air just obtained FAA certification.

This article will give others some background info.

Need five seats, IMO, not four, for a viable service.
Two million per plane, need three or four for a first class limo service, I'd think.

Plan on flights to Scottsdale, as a premier destination.

8/10/2006 06:40:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Wallace has evidently done a CBS 'treatment'--like Dan Rather did for Saddam and Fidel. What rot. It oughtta have a name. How 'bout "Bundyism"? After Ted Bundy, the "charmer".

8/10/2006 06:41:00 PM  
Blogger waymad said...

Re TATP etc - don't wet your collective knickers just yet: google "syft tatp". If you're a betting type, invest in the stock, too. I know, I know, it's a technological fix, applied to all, because of a brain wiring problem in some. But this thread has seen enough polemic about dat. Sniff 'em out.....

8/10/2006 06:46:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

DR just wrote the brief entry into the 2015 World Book of Facts,

Subject: Us War in Iraq

The Democracy Project started before the War was won or even over. That was the Tactic slated to achieve Victory. Instead it empowered our Enemies, in Iraq.

8/10/2006 06:49:00 PM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

You're talking tactics DR....

Strategically, not "kickin the crap out of somebody" would have been our death-knell. Afghanistan and Iraq were/are the perfect strategic position for Iran. I believe you still need to give me a strategic response.

8/10/2006 06:50:00 PM  

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