The Blame Game
A member of parliament belonging to the British Labour Party has accused the West of holding "Muslim blood" cheap. But Shuggy's Blog argues that the MP has it backwards: the moral value of life depends not on whose blood is shed but upon who is doing the shedding.
According to Kitty Ussher MP the Muslim community in Burnley have been asking why it seems the blood of Muslims seems cheaper than that of Jews and Christians? An honest answer to this rhetorical question would have to include the observation that 'Muslim blood' has no fixed price but varies according to who is shedding it.
Christians shedding Muslim blood provokes outrage, although this too can vary. It is a much more serious matter, for example, if the 'Christians' in question are American rather than Serbian. But of course this is nothing like as grevious than the most serious of all - this being the context of the article - when it is Muslim lives being taken by Jews. On the other hand, Muslim lives being taken by other Muslims isn't anything like as serious. The pro-Nasrallah 'left', for example, are not only a little less than - how to put this delicately? - forthcoming in their condemnation of Jewish civilian casualties; they seem unpeturbed by the fact that Arab Israelis were also amongst the victims of Hizbollah's rocket attacks.
Is there any truth to this cynical assertion? Some perhaps. Recently, the Sri Lankan Ministry of Defense described the conflict between two "communities", who in terms of "toughness" are a matchup comparable to Alien vs. Predator: Muslims and the Tamil Tigers (LTTE) of Sri Lanka. In this clash, who gets blamed? In particular who is at fault when Tamil Tigers kill Muslims?
Sri Lanka Muslim Congress (SLMC) leader Rauff Hakeem is an angry man. He is angry with the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) for driving the Muslims out of Muttur and killing large numbers of them.
"What the LTTE has done to Muslims is absolutely horrendous. Tigers are to be blamed for making incursions into Muttur. We have been subjected to torture just because the Tigers think we are collaborating with the Army," he told this correspondent on Thursday, at the end of his visit to New Delhi where he briefed politicians and security officials about the plight of the Muslims in Sri Lanka.
Hakeem, who appeared particularly miffed with the LTTE, maintained that over 100 Muslim civilians, including women and children, were slaughtered by the Tigers in the recent conflict. The Muslim-Tamil relationship took a serious turn in 1990, when the LTTE expelled 90,000 Muslims from Jaffna overnight and killed 140 Muslims in the Kaathankudy mosque in Batticaloa district.
But later, the LTTE apologised to the Muslims.But Hakeem has little faith in the LTTE. It is worthless even to speak to them, he says. "The LTTE leadership has a funny attitude. No one can contact them. What they have done this time is simply unforgettable. The LTTE broke our trust. I was assured by Prabhakaran that our people will be protected when I signed a pact with him," Hakeem said.
Hakeem opined that constant international pressure could arrest the situation in Sri Lanka. And India, he said, could play a proactive part in this.
This incident contains all the stock elements of outrage. There is a mass expulsion of Muslims: ethnic cleansing. Women and children are slaughtered. But no Green Helmeted humanitarians come forward to display their bodies to an eager press. Promises are obtained by the pitiful victims which are immediately and treacherously broken by their killers. The Sri Lankan Muslims remained largely peaceful. Perfidy on perfidy. Had these acts been done by Americans, or worse yet, Jews, there would be calls for a War Crimes Tribunal. But none are heard, and what follows varies from the pattern in practically every respect. No outcry is heard from the UN Human Rights bureaucrats, nor from the Organization of Islamic Conference. No boycott is organized against the LTTE by Muslim countries. Even the European Sri Lanka Monitoring Mission composed of Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, and Iceland -- there to assist with keeping the peace -- has kept quiet. None of the usual champions of Muslim rights have come forward. So much so that the victimized Muslims themselves have appealed to India -- yes, India the archenemy of Pakistan -- for protection. How very, very strange. What is going on here?
Commentary
What's going is a demonstration of the principle that complaints are rarely lodged against those who are feared. Feared not for their power but for their brutality: such as the LTTE. Suicide bombs do not scare them: Tigers were suicide bombing before Islamic militants copied the tactic. In fact, the Tigers killed the former Prime Minister of India, Rajiv Gandhi with a prototype suicide vest carried by a woman in 1991. The Tigers are impervious to op-eds in the New York Times and speeches at the UN. Law does not affect them. The International Criminal Court would not dare to serve a summons on them. Therefore the LTTE will remain blameless, whatever outrages it may commit against Muslims. In contrast the Danes cannot even publish a caricature of Mohammed in a Danish newspaper without bringing down the wrath of the entire Muslim world and half the flagship newspapers of the West upon them. The difference between the Tigers and the Danes is you fear the one and buy canned ham from the other. The difference between correctness and political correctness is that the former blames who it must and the latter blames who it can.
This is completely perverse. And it means that modern political correctness will be exercised relentlessly against law-abiding nations because they are the only ones on who it works. The lawless will be given wide berth: the more lawless the wider the berth. The result will be split level morality where a few countries will be held to an impossibly high standard while the most brutal will be treated with kid gloves, even fawned upon. Now let's examine the question again: who holds Muslim blood cheap?
posted by wretchardthecat at 8/30/2006 05:51:00 AM
241 Comments:
Teresita looks a little like Lucy Lawless, doesn't she? Anyway, I'm not sure that "fear" is the critical independent variable. I'm sure Arabs "fear" what the US and what could do... and sometimes actually do. The issue is they have same some tactical or strategic effect on what that might be, by virtue of these appeals. They know they have a constituency within these states who "don't want trouble", so they make trouble.
Trouble, at least of that socio-political variety, has little tactical or strategic value with the Tigers. And that's what matters.
God, that's awful. I should have proofread. Let me try again.
I'm not sure that "fear" is the critical independent variable. I'm sure Arabs "fear" what the US and Israel could do... and sometimes actually do. The issue is they can have some tactical or strategic effect on what that might be, by virtue of these appeals. They know they have a constituency within these states who "don't want trouble", so they make trouble.
Trouble, at least of that socio-political variety, has little tactical or strategic value with the Tigers. And that's what matters. There's no utility in it.
shep barbash said:
They refrain from condemning the Tigers not only because they fear them but because they don't much care about them
Good point. We see this tendency too when Democrats practice the "soft bigotry of low expectations" with their black constituency, condemning Bush for "not giving money to Katrina" because Washington DC is supposed to be the solution to every problem, but refusing to condemn Ray "Chocolate City" Nagin for letting that fleet of buses get flooded out when people needed to be evacuated.
Saw Lucy with blonde hair, yesterday, singing her heart out.
Life is not fair
The Jews of Europe and the Chinese, both killed in the millions in WWII.
The killers of the Jews still "offically" rebuked.
The killers of the Chinese paroled by US and venerated by the current leaders of Japan.
Some folk are just more equal than others, just the way it is, sometimes.
teresita latte grande . 3 for 7. you are covering posts like starbucks coffee shops.
The moral environment Wretchard describes teaches future generations one thing -- do evil. You will only be condemned if you appear to have a conscience.
It sure seems like a global religious war. More and more war will find itself in proximity of the loudest mouth piece, and that means the West's MSM attracts terrorism. Let them be heard?
As goes Sri Lanka, so goes Sudan and so went Lebanon. The Israelis just had the audacity to brush past the UN to strike those who struck them, political correctness be damned.
The Israelis are lucky enough to have their own army and borders to delineate and control - outside of the UN peacekeeping arena. Too bad they had second thoughts. Pity those poor bastards who have to rely on the UN to do what is correct, not politically correct.
Another way to frame one's views of the UN and its role in disputes such as these is to recognize that it is a political institution and any resolution it engenders will be political, no matter how heavy the trappings of military involvement might be. It has set itself up to be, or has become, the avatar of that 'higher' level of morality that speaks ill of none and proclaims fealty to the 'proper' principles, yet avoids any effective censure of or action against the brutal. After all, it is so much easier (and photo friendly) to show those self-proclaimed 'higher' moralists that you are not buying Danish ham than it is to get to the meat of the matter in Darfur.
What truly needs to enter the collective conscious of the US and/or the West, is that boycotting a country that has transgressed the boundaries of political correctness, is at best merely a transitory pleasure for believers of the 'higher' morality, which papers over the evil acts of the brutal non-adherents and sows only killing fields, fertilized with the bones of the helpless.
It is no wonder that the French (and European) perfume industry is so large. The neighborhood stinks.
The Beautiful People have already effectively ignored the war (and large numbers of deaths) in the Congo, and Darfur. Why not ignore Sri Lanka too?
This reminds me of that case in England a few years ago, where a farmer whose home had repeatedly been burgled shot the next punk who broke into his house. Farmer went to jail. Punk got restitution.
Perhaps the "liberal" mindset literally is unable to recognize certain things. Maybe they are not being hypocritical when they apply double standards -- they simply don't see events which do not fit their mental template.
No cause for alarm. Darwinism will win out in the end. Organisms which are incapable of recognizing threats in their environment will eventually fall prey to those threats, and be eliminated from the gene pool. Messy, but ultimately totally effective.
I think i can answer this...
For a Moslem to die by a Jew is like a warrior being killed by a flea.
go back to your school days as a child... on that playground, look at the bullies... that angry leather clad italian, that mean looking black gang banger, that tough drinking fighting irish guy, that tough mexican wearing colors and yes that tough skinny big nosed book reading jew.
Yes my friends no one likes the shit kicked out of them by jews. the historic wimp of all! those book reading, torah studing jews... it's simple when a jew kills a moslem, it is unfair, not proper, the universe is backwards, so it actually causes humiliation beyond repair.
yep the geeky, skinny, big nosed, weak jews fight back and the moslems are really afraid. too bad...
This is substantially off topic, but I thought it might be of interest to BC readers.
We had in Fremont and San Francisco yesterday an incident of what may have been "Sudden Jihad Syndrome," where an (apparently Muslim) Afghani-American male in a black Honda Pilot mowed down multiple pedestrians, killing at least one and critically injuring a number of others.
Here is the San Francisco Chronicle account of the incident, which is very detailed but somehow fails to identify the driver or use his name (which was well known to the writers by the time the story came out), instead repeatedly referring to the "Pilot" as though it were some autonomous agent killing and wounding all these innocent people. (Somehow the "Pilot" made its way to the Jewish Community center on California Street and seriously wounded two there, but that was probably unintentional.)
If Pilots are outlawed only outlaws will have Pilots, I guess.
Jamie Irons
WiO, you are a scream. Demented, yes, but delightful to read.
Lucy actually dates a chubby big nosed balding older jewish man... who loves to read
Habu, she's gonna rope-a-dope you to where you're gonna punch yosef out and fall over in the 14th like George Foreman in the Rumble in the Jungle. Better let her off the ropes and box a few rounds. Little squirt can take a punch.
Lucy in the Sky with Hebrews?
buddy larsen wrote:
Habu, she's gonna rope-a-dope you to where you're gonna punch yosef out and fall over in the 14th like George Foreman in the Rumble in the Jungle. Better let her off the ropes and box a few rounds. Little squirt can take a punch.
I don't know what "pimping a blog" means, I'm just responding to wretchard and others as normal participation in a forum. And it's amazing how sweet I can be when someone offers a real apology that isn't retracted three or four posts later.
I also have a blog.
My blog has been visited by approximately 7 people in two years.
Perhaps this is somehow related to the fact that it is protected by a moat filled with alligators, surrounded by a killing field of land mines, and a perimeter of claymore mines and trained killer bees.
Well, also maybe it's because my writing is inflated, wordy, run-on, whiny, bigoted, pissy, self-indulgent, and opaque.
I mainly use it as a place to try to organize my thoughts and logic around issues that really really really really really hijack my attention. Not because I'm trying to force my opinions on a prostrate reading audience.
When I want to do that, I come over here to the BC and jump in the continuing fistfight.
Seems like it's become a lot more like figure-8 stock car racing lately.
No, seriously. I come here and post when I actually think I have some tiny little contribution to make to the conversation.
We now return to that conversation, already in progress...
Wretchard, re: your essay.
First, to build your thesis:
According to Kierkegaard, faith cannot be attained by approximation, or by an effort to quantify deliberation into a higher degree of certainty. Faith can only be attained by an appropriation or acceptance of the condition of uncertainty. Thus, faith requires a leap from disbelief to belief. Faith is a state of objective uncertainty in which the individual affirms his or her own subjectivity.
And more:
Faith, for Kierkegaard, is not a matter of learning dogma by rote. It is a matter of the individual repeatedly renewing h/er passionate subjective relationship to an object which can never be known, but only believed in. This belief is offensive to reason, since it only exists in the face of the absurd.
Kierkegaard also anticipated the secular aesthete:
That is, the aesthete uses artifice, arbitrariness, irony, and wilful imagination to recreate the world in his own image. The prime motivation for the aesthete is the transformation of the boring into the interesting.
This type of aestheticism is criticized from the point of view of ethics. It is seen to be emptily self-serving and escapist. It is a despairing means of avoiding commitment and responsibility. It fails to acknowledge one's social debt and communal existence. And it is self-deceiving insofar as it substitutes fantasies for actual states of affairs.
Kierkegaard writes:
Faith does not result from straightforward scholarly deliberation, nor does it come directly; on the contrary, in this objectivity one loses that infinite, personal, impassioned interestedness, which is the condition of faith.
Losing faith is losing any belief in the infinite--God, good and evil, moral truth, etc. Because finite thinking cannot understand the infinite, the infinite can only be believed in, can only be taken on faith.
Of course, as you point out, this definition of faith can be stretched to cover statism, Marxism, and liberalism; the self-elected Marxist, for instance, takes, on faith, a great many things that are repugnant to reason.
And secular faiths are by no means confined to these. As you mentioned, Churchill appealed to the secular faith of Britain's Glory and Worth when steeling his people for the onslaught of the Luftwaffe. Lincoln, it may be said, refounded America not as a social contract, but as a political theology -- affirming and appealing to the belief that America was "last best hope of earth."
In fact, if it is true that faith is necessary to survive when threatened by the faithful--or even further, if some collective faith is necessary to survive in general--our "last best hope" is a socio-political theology. Dogmatic religion is fatally weak; it consists of truth, but is itself untruth. The worth of religion flows from its ability to synthesize these truths into a coherent whole, but when the 'whole' disintegrates as absurd, its embedded truths are dispersed like a thrown deck of cards. And like cards, thrown truths, once disaggregated, are tedious to pick up and reorganize.
America will last so long as Americans believe in an 'Infinite American Truth.' In this context, then, it makes sense to fear those who want to render America ugly, finite, and equivalent. But it is also worth noting that many who are feared should not be, for when they criticize, they still use the unitary language of the Founders to do so--thereby enshrining the infinite in their ideological paradigm as something firm and real but not yet reached. Most secular Americans fall into the latter category. Only a few really believe a world without "liberty and justice for all" would be a more attractive place.
And that brings us to your distinction between 'faith as ideology' and 'faith as visionary and disciplined'--in your terms, 'faith as fighting faith.'
There is a difference between faith in the finite and faith in the infinite. Only faith in the infinite imparts the courage necessary to qualify as a fighting faith--courage in the face of uncertainty, courage in the face of the absurd. Faith that your plane won't fall out of the sky, for instance, will never motivate you to turn towards a volley of fire and charge. Only faith in an absolute will do that.
(Interestingly, our military cultivates a 'fighting faith' that can be separated from America's political theology, and from religion. It is the faith in the man next to you, and his faith in you--a faith for which both you and he would die before disappointing. You hear it many times: when the shooting starts, all that extra stuff is sheared away. It's just you, your buddies, and the enemy that is trying to kill you. It's a faith that motivates the religious and the atheist alike.)
The lesson, then, is that one can be taught a 'fighting faith' even if one starts as an agnostic aesthete. A better way of saying it is that faith can be forged. Training camp can forge it by creating an unbreakable covalency between you and your platoon-mates. The mosque can forge it by encapsulating the same type of brotherhood in a global religious cause.
The question, then, boils down to this: what can forge a fighting faith in America as a whole? Tigerhawk addressed this a week or so ago, in his question, "What can Militarize America?"
The answer is, in part, what we believe about "us." Are we worth fighting for, is there something true in an infinite sense about the value and values of America?
Perhaps even more importantly is what we believe about "them." It may be true that our ennui will, eventually, ruin us. A nation of aesthete's may very well crumble if it ever fights an attractive foe.
But that day is not today. Radical Islam is not an attractive foe; it is despicable and horrifying. If all else fails, its ugliness will be our battle cry. If things become urgent, our anger will become righteous, and we will destroy, destroy, destroy.
America is still the last best hope on earth. Most of us still believe it.
For now, that is enough.
Well, also maybe it's because my writing is inflated, wordy, run-on, whiny, bigoted, pissy, self-indulgent, and opaque
Hey, fiddler, that wasn't opaque at ALL!
Now, I shall follow henceforth the Lord Acton Dictum ("boy. he dicked 'em good!") and shut up further off-thread classroom hijinkery.
Wretchard wrote:
The difference between correctness and political correctness is that the former blames who it must and the latter blames who it can.
This is completely perverse. And it means that modern political correctness will be exercised relentlessly against law-abiding nations because they are the only ones on who it works. The lawless will be given wide berth: the more lawless the wider the berth. The result will be split level morality where a few countries will be held to an impossibly high standard while the most brutal will be treated with kid gloves, even fawned upon.
The problem is that the war we’re fighting is a war of concurrency—a war in which multiple processes occur in parallel. Let’s think about two processes:
Process #1: war fighting in a military sense
Process #2: war observing by the MSM, left-leaning NGOs and the like
If we do what we must and react brutally to some Islamofascist provocation, without regard to proportionality or PC, we will achieve a successful outcome for process #1.
However, process #2 is occurring at the same time.
If we do what we must and react brutally to some Islamofascist provocation, without regard to proportionality or PC, we will achieve a unsuccessful outcome for process #2.
The MSM and left-leaning NGOs will castigate us, using an “impossibly high standard,” world opinion will turn against us, and Islamofascists win a propaganda victory which, more often than not, erodes the success of process #1.
Since each of the processes has equal weight (at least in a liberal democracy), we tend to try to execute each for a successful outcome. In the process (no pun intented), we fail at both.
I wonder if Sunnis have killed more Shias in Iraq or if Shias have killed more Sunnis in Iraq?
Perhaps the reason Muslim blood is so easily shed is that they are "thin skinned"...
They cloak themslrves in thin rituals, policies, principles, and capabilities - which includes going in harm's way a great deal - because they so often create the harm.
What is but an unoticeable nick to a grown man while shaving is a fatal blootletting to a small baby.
Muslims are babies ... running with scissors.
soflauthor,
I dispute that the two processes you mention are of equal weight. I would say the latter has no weight at all. Not on my scales; and more and more, not in the scales of others. The chattering classes are known as such to a larger slice of the population with each passing day.
Solutions are what matter. Results matter. The military gets results; and the "media" and NGO's do not (in their own sphere or in the spheres they interfere in). Americans, being the industrious sort, understand this.
I think one of the long term trends which favors the decline of terrorism is the rise of China. Say what else you will of the Chinese, but they understand the power of effective solutions. There is a reason the Tamil Tigers are in Sri Lanka, not Pudong.
As for the complaints of certain British MP's and other men of little merit, I believe that Darwinism will win out here too. Luckily, thanks to the 1st Amendment and the Internet, Darwinism can procede at the meme / software level without having to procede at the slower and messier wetware level.
The problem soflauthor dissects is that early-identified problem of democracy; the ballot box makes perception more important than fact.
This is a bitch of a problem, as the fix can be nothing else but to inform, inform, inform, relentlessly, without surcease, forever.
Cardozo Bozo wrote:
I dispute that the two processes you mention are of equal weight. I would say the latter has no weight at all. Not on my scales; and more and more, not in the scales of others. The chattering classes are known as such to a larger slice of the population with each passing day.
Although I agree that process #2 -- war observing should have no weight, the events of the past few years indicate that it certainly does. Look at the broad-based left-leaning MSM condemnation (process #2) of Israel for lack of “proportionality” in Lebanon. It can be argued that fear of the outcome of process #2 caused Israeli’s political leadership to be tentative in its execution of process #1 -- war fighting.
Same holds in the US. Our political leadership is acutely aware that process #2 matters – in the polls, in the administration’s ability to lead effectively, and in our own process #1 endeavors.
Both of us may not like it, but process # 2 does matter. The real question is: how do we win a war of concurrency?
The entire argument for political correctness starts in the words "All men are created equal", which can lead to the fallacy that all men are equal, as well as all human institutions. We quickly arrive at moral equivalency. However, if we return to, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.", we end up with something quite different. The end is more limiting defining the specified inalienable rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.. The inalienable rights are positive aspirations shared by most of humanity. They are there to be pursued by those so inclined and deserve the help of others in that pursuit. The abridged, "All men are created equal", is simply incorrect and the derived political correctness leads us to the absurdity of much our present discourse.
Why is He Still Alive?
Last Updated: Wednesday, 30 August 2006, 15:09 GMT 16:09 UK, BBC
Chavez supports Syria against US
Hugo Chavez wants to show solidarity with Syria
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has pledged to stand by Syria in opposition to what he said was US "imperialist aggression" in the Middle East.
He said he and Syria would strive to build a world free of US domination.
to buttress soflauthor's thesis:
Battle of Wadi Saluki.
(ht Mika)
the mad fiddler said:
I mainly use it as a place to try to organize my thoughts and logic around issues that really really really really really hijack my attention. Not because I'm trying to force my opinions on a prostrate reading audience. When I want to do that, I come over here to the BC and jump in the continuing fistfight.
Awesome. Me too. I've only been using a blog for about a month, and it's helping me overcome writer's block. I've been reading Belmont Club for about a year, and I thought I'd start making my own contributions.
Rufus 08:10:16 AM,
Reminds me of the ROE's that allowed one sniper in a Minaret to pin down a platoon of Marines all day long, resulting in needless death and injury, rather than "defiling" this sacred explosives filled mosque with a single pinpoint accuracy helicopter fired missile to take out the sniper.
I complained loud and long here, and got argument after argument, including even from the host.
Wonder if a few more people are now willing to concede the FOOLISHNESS AND IMMORALITY of such stupidity?
The likehood that MANY lives could have been saved with rational use of force post OIF becomes more obvious daily, but of course that's just my opinion.
Having a 17 year old son that planned on suiting up after 9-11, I was constantly thinking how I would feel had he been asked to become such "Nobel Sacrifice"
A Pox on them!
rufus, I hesitate to critique from afar, with small info to boot, but it does seem that holding an armored column at an ambush-gorge jump-off point for several days while the enemy is known to be concentrating his anti-tank units, with your infantry scattered in the gorge sufficient only to negate use of your air, sounds pretty roughly-planned.
OTOH, the casualty ratios were all in IDF favor, and IDF did take the ground.
In the ROP, explosives make Mosques MORE sacred, Rufus:
We must respect that K?
Don't tell me you are STILL going to defend our ridiculous ROE's Larsen!
Make that immoral.
Rufus,
Right.
Not sure who you are refering to about the troop numbers:
Twasn't me.
I think we had plenty had we used them as if we had real men in DC in charge.
Unfortunately DC has a fatal Case of PC Cowardice.
doug, I was commenting on the Jerusalem Post article. calm down, tap your CapsLock--the topic may be huge, but the commentary ain't.
Make that Political Cowardice.
Savage's new definition of PC.
doug,
You may recall my having written during the late war my criticism of the wording given by the Olmert government in answering the question of how would Israel proceed, i.e. "for the moment we have ordered our troops to attack" (close enough, I think).
I responded to the effect, "For the moment General Pickett has been ordered to attack Seminary Ridge." A rather stupid, if not criminal formulation, any rational person would have to agree.
The strange thing about process #1 and process #2 is how readily resolved they are by victory. Victory just seems to cleanse the air and set things to right. However, just like those IDF tankers, if you sit around long enough with your butt exposed, someone will whack it.
Of course with guys like Mr. Armitage (just come out of the closet) attempting to sabotage his government's foreign policy, victory has to come very swiftly indeed.
Source of C.I.A. Leak Admits Role, Lawyer Says
The New York Times, by Neil A. Lewis
c/o http://lucianne.com/threads2.asp?artnum=293308
trish,
Isn’t odd that Mr. Rumsfeld did not mention Mr. Armitage’s betrayal during his enumeration of high crimes and misdemeanors? Wouldn’t be good form I guess.
I'm still fuming about the Marines and how it relates to present situation in Iraq.
...and I do remember all the STUPID arguments I got here.
(covering Admins ass imo)
sorry
Allen,
All my feelings about Powell have been confirmed.
The man is scum imo.
Armitage and Wilkerson his hit men.
It's a forum, right? At some point, as Allen says, situations clarify on outcomes. The Fallujah I argument has I admit swung back and forth unto madness. There's plenty who still say it was the right thing to do. no need to re-type all the arguments--I'd rather concede to you, since it's all just conjecture anyway, on the grounds that there's your health to consider.
rufus, good point--I knew that sounded like crap as soon as I typed it. I was pointing to the fact that on the metrics, as bad as it sounds, IDF still clobbered the enemy in the wadi. You've read plenty of slanted articles--JPost may've been gilding an admittedly ugly-looking lily.
rufus; 10:57 AM
re: mosques
In my entire life, I have yet to meet a Jewish mother who would be willing to sacrifice her son to preserve the "sanctity" of a mosque. But, I have met hundreds of lawyers and politicians who would be more than willing to sacrifice my son to preserve their good PR!
A man's gotta vent when a man's gotta vent!
Seriously, tho:
How would YOU feel if it was YOUR son sacrificed on that alter to cowardice and stupidity?
11:23:24 AM Allen,
Each day I feel less guilty about consuling our then 16 year old on 9-11 to remember he could wait, and also serve in other ways.
Wish others could see that EVERY soldier is some mother's son.
doug; 11:15 AM
re: Armitage and Wilkerson his hit men.
And this is precisely why the Franco-American UN Resolution 1701 is such a cluster. The names change at State, but the game remains the same: get the President.
No wonder the guy has aged ten years during the last two!
If the President does not take a flame thrower to that den of iniquity after this, he deserves all the lumps he gets. This was nothing short of a coup by Powell and associates.
alexis said;
The moral environment Wretchard describes teaches future generations one thing -- do evil. You will only be condemned if you appear to have a conscience.
It is evil to accept the condemnation of those who call the good evil and the evil good.
Check this re Armitage et al.
doug, you're absolutely right--an offspring's life lost on a screwed up deal is about the worst thing a parent can have land on him/her. All the more reason to be circumspect on judging while in possession of less than complete information.
I've noticed that aging thing ever since LBJ.
Wonder how much HST aged?
Could not disagree more Larsen:
POS ROE's are POS ROE's!
Case Closed.
Denial already has cost too many lives.
Better to be impolitic than immoral.
Hey, 54 to 60 is a long trip no matter what the heck you're doing.
wait a minute--there's always more than one opinion on any ops. If a commander using his best decision turns out to have been wrong--he's "immoral"?
If you're gonna throw that word re the fog of war, what word are you going to use for deliberate treachery?
I look better now than then:
I got a nice mirror you might be interested in too.
During Nixon's troubled times, I was talking to our best friend, the wise old man next door neighbor with the small Jersey Dairy.
Apropos Nixon:
"He's got himself a job."
One o' them Dorian Grey models?
lord acton said:
In terms of the worth of blood, I've always wondered how the tens of thousands of palestinians killed and displaced in the 1947 war have become the ultimate victims of the 20th century
There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". After the 1948 war many Arabs stayed in the land given to Israel in the UN Partition Plan or the lands conquered by Israel in the war and accepted, in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel the "full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions" About 700,000 Arabs rejected citizenship in Israel and fled to Jordan or Egypt. Egypt never accepted Gaza as their territory and denied Egyptian citizenship to Gaza Arabs. King Hussein cut ties to the West Bank part of Jordan in 1988. "Palestine" has been a figment since the partition.
lord acton said:
In terms of the worth of blood, I've always wondered how the tens of thousands of palestinians killed and displaced in the 1947 war have become the ultimate victims of the 20th century
There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". After the 1948 war many Arabs stayed in the land given to Israel in the UN Partition Plan or the lands conquered by Israel in the war and accepted, in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel the "full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions" About 700,000 Arabs rejected citizenship in Israel and fled to Jordan or Egypt. Egypt never accepted Gaza as their territory and denied Egyptian citizenship to Gaza Arabs. King Hussein cut ties to the West Bank part of Jordan in 1988. "Palestine" has been a figment since the partition.
Starting with Fallujah I,
it became apparent that the military was not always calling the shots.
To keep practices that don't work in place for years qualifies as something pretty sad and unnecessary whether "immoral" is appropriate or not.
Remember Lt Col Kurilla?
Hey, politics ain't beanbag, I admit. But, this semi-successful quasi-coup by Powell and Armitage cannot go unpunished. This is right out of Rome or Constantinople. Call out the Praetorian Guard.
An honorable man would make is way into a tub of steaming water, with whetted razor in hand. That's not going to happen, though.
Thumbs down! “Strike a king, kill a king.”
I know I feel all better now.
dave h said:
Policy is better done by a National Security Advisor. Anyone who thinks Condi Rice improved her chances for nomination in 08 by that "promotion" is nuts.
Much as I would love to see Condi get the GOP nod in '08, she don't even have a husband for "cover" like Hillary does, so the rumors fly and the religious right won't go for it on Romans 1:26 grounds, if you catch my meaning.
Doug,
(Sorry this is so late!) Yesterday you wondered where you heard Ferrigno's interview on "Prayers for the Assassin." You might try Hugh Hewitt. I saw his transcript of his radio interview. Wish I could give you more detail than that.
OK Allen:
Now fix the Media Blackout on Muzzie Terror against Jews in Amerika!
more on the Armitage deal
doug, okay, you're right--if Fallujah I was due to the coming elections, then that's a valid criticism.
But, how much do you know about what didn't happen?
What if Fallujah I had been what you wanted, and the guys who thought it would lose the election had been right, and Kerry had gotten into the White House? Would he have pulled us outta the mideast? If so, would that have set up a huge war with perhaps millions of deaths in the future?
What, no way to know, right?
Point is, when you back someone, you put the monkey on their back, and for carrying that monkey for you, you ought to give back the benefit of the doubt.
At least unless and until the POS ROE is acclaimed by most all, and not just a point of contention among many.
If the whole country defined "morality" as "perfection", who the hell but the likes of Gore and Kerry would ever even bother to run for office?
Gerry:
Thanks! Robert Ferrigno Interview
Also, LGF
teresita, are you in possession of (*ahem*) certain knowledges about the jr. senator from NY?
doug,
re: Muzzie Terror against Jews in Amerika!
There is little to say at the moment except the perp is a Muslim. For those benighted souls, that would be a practitioner of Islam, which is to say, a churlish goatherd with a hard-on for the world and no place to put it.
By tomorrow, the real news pros of the blogosphere will have found enough details on sheik Popal to make rational commentary possible concerning Jew hatred.
Viscerally, however, to Popal I would say, "A length of rope, a convenient tree, a flask of wine, and surely thee."
Perhaps, I have said too much. Oh well, I will never be a SCOTUS nominee, so what to hell.
McCain's got Mckinnon, GWB's promo guy,
POWELL AND ARMITAGE!
God I'm scared!
McCain Powell vs Hillary Kucinich!
Gingrich. Historian, patriot, DC-savvy.
"At least unless and until the POS ROE is acclaimed by most all, and not just a point of contention among many."
---
Kurilla's on the ground judgement, plus my common sense, leads me to a different conclusion.
The issue was settled long ago.
Since then it has been hammered home over and over.
Blind loyalty does not qualify as common sense.
Kurilla, Yon, on and on.
There's is the ring of truth.
DC mush rings hollow.
Fine, elect Code Pink, enjoy being 'right'.
Pay no attention to the president, the SecDef, the JCS, Tommy Franks, any of 95% of the command echelon. They're not trustworthy, they're "DC mush".
Not the point.
Cheap shot.
The truth is known by many, arguments can be more effective when it is openly recognized.
I think the general populace often feels the truth, even when absent details.
That can win elections.
We agree to disagree:
Let's move on!
You argue with Ash, I'll beg Teresita to take down that nauseating picture!
Great. You're off CapsLock and speaking rationally. Thanks.
Hey Teresita,
Let two other posters post first, that way I don't have to see that thing while composing these works of art/devastating arguments.
Compromise, OK?
"You're off CapsLock"
---
Don't bet on it!
I'm well fueled and ready to fire.
(sposed to be working on them cascading sheets before the morning high goes away. Wish me luck.)
12:49:47 PM ;-)
More wisdom from the farm!
Oh,well, like the guy fighting a bear in the bushes, and hollering for his friend to shoot--friend says "but i can't see where to shoot", guy hollers back "just shoot in here amongst us, one of us GOTTA get some relief!"
the difference between an oviparous and a possumist is eggs-parentus.
epictetus said:
It almost seems like a perfect storm of forces aligned against our patriotism. Is this due to design? Some cold war plot come to fruition? Or is this just a byproduct of the integration of the world economy?
Patriotism comes from within, like faith; it can never be destroyed by force. The barrel of a kidnapper's AK-47 can make your mouth say all kinds of things but can never move your heart.
Posters may want to read this from the Washington Post: "Monitors blame Sri Lanka forces for aid massacre".
Harvard Will Host Iranian Mullah
When he visits the United States on a mission to spread Islamist propaganda,
Iranian mullah Mohammad Khatami will be feted at Harvard University in an event titled:
Ethics of Tolerance in the Age of Violence: Mohammad Khatami. Orwell would be envious.
(Hat tip: Daniel Freedman.)
This celebration of tolerance will take place on September 10th.
---LGF
"Americans are still generally patriotic. But our country's overall sense of self is being weakened by mass immigration of illegals, multiculturalism, lack of historical knowledge, reduction of faith in our electoral system and leaders, and outright denigration of our culture by authority figures."
---
epictetus,
Agreed, and add NEA, MSM, and other bad actors.
---
Well, it's an improvement size wise at least!
I tired of the vacant stare.
Thanks.
(Teresita Picture)
trish said:
Powell delivered an identifiable crock of shit at the UN when it counted. Brought many of the fence-sitters here at home over to our side. Not a bad job at all.
I'm not too proud of being on the side that needed to deliver a crock of shit to get approval to go to war. I like it better when they ask us politely to put our young men and women on the thin camouflage line.
OK Allen:
Now fix the Media Blackout on Muzzie Terror against Jews in Amerika
It's denial, pure and simple. To admit that there are muslims in America who can at any momment lose their self control and run amok would force people to recognize the breadth of the threat we face.
Denial is easier. Living in a comfortably numb world where a "pilot" commits murder and no one has to worry is far easier that confronting the fact that the Muslim world is about to lose it's grip and come for us.
the most frightening aspect of this is the truth that our gracious host pointed out quite a while ago: the shakedown scheme only works if it is kept below a certain level. The tipping point of "pay or fight" is meaningless when muslims are so wound up that they can no longer display any discipline at all.
The Gaza situation is simple lawlessness. splinter factions upon splinter factions and fighting rages on. Whatever mob boss might have had control there lost it long, long ago.
for us in America we face a difficult choice: do we start listening to the preachings in the mosques? Or do we wait while a few more muslim men lose it and kill us?
It's way past time to clean out the State Department.
Incredibly, State has been a refuge for anti-Administration, anti-American activity since at least the 30's. During the Roosevelt war years Presidential instruction to overseas diplomats were deliberately ignored or altered to fit the personal agenda of that generation of State Department rats. It's the real Aegean Stables of the US Govt. and no Hercules has been found that is able to clean it up.
Skipsailing
I'm more worried about that SUV cult than anything else. I've been reading about SUV mayhem for years. A 200 lb jihadi is one thing but a 4,000 lb crazed SUV is quite another.
wretchard
The difference between correctness and political correctness is that the former blames who it must and the latter blames who it can.
I don't believe that the PC crowd fails to condemn the Tamil Tigers based on the latter's strength and ruthlessness. Rather, it is because the Tigers don't fit neatly into the Oppressor/Victim paradigm which is the single organizing principle for value judgements made by the illiberal left. For them, the defining moments in American history werethe massacre at Wounded Knee and the civil rights movements of the 1960s. The former proves (to them) that the US is little more than an Imperialist oppressor state which builds its success on the backs of non-white victims. The civil rights movement provides the notion that the way to redress the grievance of the victims is to give them special status by making them more equal than everyone else. (LBJ's idea IIRC). For these reasons, the blood of Hizbollah is worth more than that of the Israeli Jews, who are little more than an extension of the American state. Whem muslims spill muslim blood, it's victim against victim and no complaint is required. By the same logic, Ramsey Clark goes to Iraq to defend Saddam Hussein against the American Imperialists, Jesse Jackson goes to hobnob with Baby Doc, the illiberals support the Palestinians against the successful and Imperialistic Israeli's and so on.
The elites of former European colonial powers take a similar self-loathing view, making it difficult, for example, for the French government to deal with the car burnings in the banalieus and for the Brits to deal with terrorists being recruited in the local mosques.
If Powell didn't like the game while he was playing he should have quit. That would have been the honorable thing to do. Backstabbing the boss and then hiding from it makes Powell a puke.
skipsailing said:
for us in America we face a difficult choice: do we start listening to the preachings in the mosques? Or do we wait while a few more muslim men lose it and kill us?
Oh, we start listening to the preaching in the mosques all right. And we should get a warrant from a judge to do it, just like on The Sopranos, so everything is all legal-like. And if they talk about overthrowing the government we shut them down and run them out of the country like we did in the Red Scare.
What did habu say, peter?
I give up. What did habu say, trish?
stoutfellow said:
The elites of former European colonial powers take a similar self-loathing view, making it difficult, for example, for the French government to deal with the car burnings in the banalieus and for the Brits to deal with terrorists being recruited in the local mosques.
I keep thinking this European self-loathing business is endemic with the generation that corresponds roughly with the baby boomers in America, who are currently having their last hurrah with Vietnam nostalgia before they go out to pasture and leave the stage for good. In fact, the Europeans should be leaving a few years earlier, since they don't believe in working too hard over there.
buddy larsen said:
What if Fallujah I had been what you wanted, and the guys who thought it would lose the election had been right, and Kerry had gotten into the White House? Would he have pulled us outta the mideast? If so, would that have set up a huge war with perhaps millions of deaths in the future?
War with who? Kerry would have pulled us out of the Middle East. The next Demo POTUS might still do it, especially if a Demo House impeaches Bush in '07 for actions related to getting us into the Middle East.
The Hunt bro's of Texas, inherited a HUGE fortune, then, after losing 90% of it speculating silver, wrote a book titled "How To Make A Small Fortune".
War with who?
teresita, if you think the jihad is well-heeled now, with one state sponsor inside OPEC, just wait 'til the jihad has a half dozen state sponsors inside OPEC. And OPEC will have lots of friends by then, too, that will aid & abet it, or else. Like, the Eurasian, African, and South American continents, for starters.
wretchard,
re: "Monitors blame Sri Lanka forces for aid massacre".
A volatile mix of the UN and ethnic Tamil UN affiliated workers operating in "enemy" territory leads to a massacre.
Is it possible that government troops found the aid workers to be as helpful to the Tigers as the Israelis found some UN personnel to Hezbollah? Sri Lankan soldiers may be less constrained than Israelis when faced with possible mortal treachery.
On the other hand, it could be just another unprovoked atrocity.
rufus,
Re: Who will be GOP 2008 Presidential candidate; Guilliani, McCain, Allen, Romney or Gingrich.
One question is, can any of them can win without the Christian Right? Guilliani does well with them in the polls now, but they may eventually have questions about him on abortion, guns and gay marriage. Romney looks good too, but they probably would not vote for a Mormon for President. Gingrich? It has been awhile since he was caught in a younger-woman affair while Clinton was being hammered for that. Then, it smelled wrong. Now, it may not matter.
McCain is all the things you said. Is he also Soro's mole/"useful idiot?" (See www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=24073)
Allen is good on the issues, but what about character, persistence and toughness? Still a mystery. He is trying now to recover from his dumb "Macaca" goof, stumbling a bit. I'm watching.
Meantime, if the GOP big donnors suddenly start making pilgrimages to see Allen in Virginia, the way they flocked to Texas to see Gov. Bush in 1998-99, I may take an extra look. Those old boys don't like to lose a gamble. And they usually know more than the general public does.
Catherine ("I still tear up over all the antique silver services melted down on account of the Hunt brothers' manipulations.")
*******
Like to buy some Idaho silver mine stocks? Cheap.
Very cheap.
allen:
Is it possible that government troops found the aid workers to be as helpful to the Tigers as the Israelis found some UN personnel to Hezbollah?
Good point. With regard to my previous post concerning the Oppressor/Victim analysis by the illiberal West, I would add this corollary when the conflict doesn't involve a former colonial power (or the US): When in doubt side with the insurgents, not the government.
In one of your posts you say:
"For the moment General Pickett has been ordered to attack Seminary Ridge."
I would just remind you that Pickett's Virginians attacked the Federal line on Cemetery Ridge. Seminary Ridge is a few miles to the west and was, I believe, the location from which the assault was martialed and begun.
teresita
I keep thinking this European self-loathing business is endemic with the generation that corresponds roughly with the baby boomers in America
I believe this is true. In order to be proportionate to their involvement as colonial masters, the Euros must adopt a high degree of self-loathing. Couple this with their socialist, statist and post modern views and you get a wicked mix. Can we hope that their children/grand children will reject these views, which are surely being transmitted to them in the schools/universities etc.
Re 'macaca', the guy was an oppo operative, dogging Allen's public appearances, and Allen just let hisself get tired and irritated. Not a great confidence builder. Newt's age, 63, puts him in office from 65 to 69, then to 73. Not great, but not proscriptive, either. He should drop 15 or 20 lbs, tho. For the stage, y'know.
04:33:51 PM Just take the Katy Photoshop Instant Diet Treatment:
20 lbs in less than 20 min!
"I can't take Newt seriously."
---
That's a problem w/me,
if you get my drift.
re:
Silver Mines:
My wife Informs me Deadwood is filmed in Home of Homesteak Mining.
Pop 1,300.
04:22:03 PM Real World:
Little Kim's gonna Bomb Hawaii?
"Romney looks good too, but they probably would not vote for a Mormon for President."
---
Gerry,
I think that is a Meuth propagated by Liberals.
Don't know his stand on many critical issues though, better inform myself.
The guy is sharp and perfectly spoken.
stoutfellow,
re: Cemetary Ridge
You are most certainly correct. I have done that twice lately. Hmmm!?
The absurdity of Pickett's make-believe plight was not lost, I trust.
Bobal,
Did you used to be a real slick feller, workin' out of a storefront in Spokane? :-)
*******
Exciting inside hot tip for farmers: The new breeder reactors will be jumpstarted with ethanol.
Cornfused?
Papa Ray, West Texas,
How things over there today? Almost fall-like here today.
Db2m, East Texas
Actually, Allen seemed better as governor. Is there something about being in the Senate that works against the qualities needed in a President? A governor at least has been a Chief Executive. And gives us some advance idea of how well he functions as one.
Deadwood...
Wonder when they will graduate to 5-letter words?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
It's a problematic analogy, tho, Allen. For example, had Lee been a bit more Second Lebanon IDF-tentative, and had taken counsel of Gen'l Longstreet among others, he might've won the war. The effect you're after, I'd use Admiral Farragut @ Mobile Bay, "Damn the Torpedoes, Full Speed Ahead!". Which itself would sound much different in retrospect had he not won the battle.
Well, blogger did it to me too. Rejected my first attempt to copy all those letters. So I tried to type it all again from memory. Ended up with a double entry. Sorry.
That was happening to me last nite.
(double posts)
db2,
Haven't had TV in over 30 years!
Wife was reading an article someplace.
Actually, we had PBS for kid.
Then had to explain to him that there were indeed some black people that aren't very nice.
Propaganda can be as insidious and attractive as Sesame Street!
re:
Allen running for Prez.
Can America Elect a Jewish Marine?
Gerry,
Just click the little garbage can and your post disappears.
dear east & west Texans, today in central Texas was the nicest day since it last rained, back a looong time ago. still bone dry, but the haze blew out with the dry-line that came through.
Gerry,
How about a book like:
"Even if you haven't been to prison, you can still turn your life around!"
allen
The absurdity of Pickett's make-believe plight was not lost, I trust.
Not at all. The secular leftist members of the Israeli government must recognize that they are in a fight for the life of their State. They must not drink the PC koolaid offered by his highness Kofi and turn their military loose in the coming war against Iran and its proxy soul mates.
"In a meeting later with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Annan said Israel also must lift its closure of the Gaza Strip and open crossing points there. He called for an end to the bloodshed that has led to the deaths of more than 200 Palestinians since the end of June."
I didn't notice any comments by Annan regarding Palestinian rockets fired into Israel or Palestinian raids into Israel for kidnapping Israeli soldiers. Oh well, Jewish blood is not worth as much as Muslim blood.
Somebody REALLY ought to tell Lord Annan that the Pali death rate could be zero for the asking--all they gotta do is swear off the murder addiction.
Ex terror master president of Iran will speak at National Cathedral just before Sept 11!
Hope Hitchen's interview will be at Radioblogger.
doug:
Deadwood is the twin city to Lead (pronounced leed), SD, the former location of the western hemisphere's largest gold mine. It was shut down in the '90's by the owner - Homestake Mining Co, home office, San Francisco, CA.
i personally don't know or care where the Deadwood series is filmed. Never seen it.
doug,
re: Can America Elect a Jewish Marine?
If nominated, I will not run;
if elected, I will not serve.
To the more important question of America ever electing a Jewish Marine, it's only a possibility if Dr. Irons persists in refusing to harden potable water with massive doses of Li2CO3.
This isn’t meant to excuse terrorists or any of the other nasty manifestations of our adversaries... but i does help explain some.
In an The Chronicle of Higher Education dated 05 March 2004, titled “The Arab World's Scientific Desert” writer Daniel del Castillo assembled some estimates, findings, and descriptions that paint a sad picture of the Arab world. The article also quotes Farouk el-Baz, an American scientist you might recognize as someone who has been a very vocal chronicler of Arab culture’s shortcomings. Here’s an excerpt I found helpful, for putting things into a kind of perspective:
“Despite the perception that the Arab world is awash in petrodollars, at the end of the 20th century the gross domestic product per capita of all Arab countries combined was slightly more than that of Spain, which has only 15 percent of the population of the Arab world. Following the oil boom of the 1970s, most economies in the Arab world shrank or stagnated. Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil producer, has one of the highest birthrates in the world and a middle class that is becoming increasingly impoverished.”
By the way, if anyone can find a current link to the full text of the 2004 report by the UNDP on the Arab World, it would be a real service to share that. I was only able to find the Executive Summary.
(Actually, If you’re trying to find it... two organizations jointly produced the study: United Nations' Development Program and the Kuwait-based Arab Fund for Social and Economic Development were.)
stoutfellow says:
In a meeting later with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Annan said Israel also must lift its closure of the Gaza Strip and open crossing points there.
Egypt walls out the inhabitants of Gaza and not a word from Kofi about that. Any other bright ideas by Kofi? Like "America must lift its closure of the Gauntanamo fence and open crossing points there" ? Or maybe, "South Korea must lift its closure of the DMS and open crossing points there" ? This guy's ten years can't expire sooner?
The bacteria of stupidity
By Tony Blankley
August 30, 2006
Quite surprisingly, what may turn out to be the world's most fitting epigram in our time was uttered by none other than the official spokesman of the Hamas-controlled Palestinian Authority, Ghazi Hamad.
According to the Jerusalem Post yesterday, Mr. Hamad told his fellow Palestinians to dismiss Israel's responsibility for the growing state of anarchy and lawlessness in the Gaza Strip. He said it was time for the Palestinians to embark on a soul-searching process to see where they erred.
"We're always afraid to talk about our mistakes. We're used to blaming our mistakes on others. What is the relationship between the chaos, anarchy, lawlessness, indiscriminate murders, theft of land, family rivalries, transgression on public lands and unorganized traffic and the occupation? We are still trapped by the mentality of conspiracy theories — one that has limited our capability to think." I pray for this man's safety after he said such a sensible thing in such a lunatic place. But what takes his comments beyond a brave, local wisdom to a shrewd global insight was his epigrammatic conclusion: "We have all been attacked by the bacteria of stupidity." "We have lost our sense of direction and we don't know where we're headed." That seems to sum the world up pretty well.
(click the link above where blankly talks about everyone else's stupid stuff)
So Lead's a four letr wrd?
Allen,
If the good Dr. approves lead, we'll all be dead.
pbuh takes on a whole new meaning!
I like it!
Preferably at very high velocity.
Buddy Larsen,8/30/2006 05:28:41 PM
..." the Pali death rate could be zero for the asking--all they gotta do is swear off the murder addiction."
I am starting to think that all the talk about Muslim extremism and terrorism is just being emphasized to cover up the real problem. Just because a few bad apples like John Allen Muhammad the Beltway sniper with his specially-made sniper car, Ahmed Ressam who wanted to bomb LA Airport, the gentleman who threw grenades in the tent in Kuwait and killed a few of his comrades, Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar that used his Jeep trying to kill a few students in NC, the one who shot six women - one fatally - at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle, and now Omeed A. Popal in SF hitting a few pedestrians with his car, are in the news is the way of the MSM to cover the real criminal intent of the Icelandic underground. If you do not hear about the Icelandic terror quads it is because there is an ever-expanding cover-up and a plot to libel poor innocent Muslims. ;)
stoutfellow said:
Can we hope that their children/grand children will reject these views, which are surely being transmitted to them in the schools/universities etc.
"Current World Problems" is the liberal indoctrination course required by all high school seniors in Washington State. My teacher, in 1983, was a classic mushy-headed liberal who thought we should learn to read and write in Russian to properly welcome our coming overlords. My dissertation was on the Soviet perfidy that lead to the coup and eventual invasion of Afghanistan. Needless to say I didn't get an "A". But my point is, kids do have their own mind and they know when they are being fed a line of crap.
That's why Global Warming is our biggest threat, Luc:
Once those Northerners get warmed up, look out!
"But my point is, kids do have their own mind and they know when they are being fed a line of crap."
---
Some do and some don't:
Kids are all different.
Perhaps your rebel quotient was a bit above average back in the day?
Many's the parent that sent their kids off to College, only to be bitterly disappointed.
Our local chat room here had many military folks with that story to tell.
gerry said:
Is there something about being in the Senate that works against the qualities needed in a President?
Yeah, uh, you have to vote for or against stuff (or sometimes vote for stuff before you vote against stuff) and they write it down when you do. Governors get to veto stuff and sign death warrants and call out the National Guard and go on trade missions to China and all kinds of other fun mini-Presidential things.
Carter will talk with the terror master:
Big Surprise.
Doug, it is not only northerners, I think Thaitian and Easter Island extremism are also being covered up by the MSM under the astute and covert direction of Cindy Sheehan. If you don't believe just ask Possum Tater
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
doug;
just like dead wood.
How can we miss Jimmy Carter when he won't go away?:
Today, we learn that former Iranian President Mohammed Khatami, a man with plenty of terrorist ties, both former and current, has been granted a visa by our State Department to visit New York, and then down to Washington, D.C., where he is to give an address at Washington's National Cathedral. Who will be his host, his guide, his sherpa?
James Earl Carter. How pathetic is it for a former president to host another former president, the latter from a weaker country that humiliated the leader of the much stronger country.
Jimmy Carter
"Heroism aboard that plane makes sense to some, because when they consider the story, and look inside their own hearts, they say yes, that rings true.
To others, in the place that holds their deepest, most visceral truths, heroism does not-- cannot-- exist. There are only schemes and lies and misdirection. So that is what they seek and, given enough time, what they will find.
That is all you ever need to know about the right and the left."
HT: commenter a4g - discussing the conspiracy theory of the Bushies ordeing flight 93 be shot down. .
I always say 'nothing resonates like the truth'. I suppose it does in different ways to different types as a4g points out
sam said:
James Earl Carter. How pathetic is it for a former president to host another former president, the latter from a weaker country that humiliated the leader of the much stronger country.
Well, Carter already had the "Worst US President Ever" title, now he just bagged "Worst Ex-President".
Enscout, when your basic frame of reference is bent, how can anything ever appear to be what it is?
Luc, the Icelandic Armageddon Tongs are really working for Finland. Think about it--the people are called "the Finish".
buddy larsen wrote:
For example, had Lee been a bit more Second Lebanon IDF-tentative, and had taken counsel of Gen'l Longstreet among others, he might've won the war.
If Lee carried Day Three, Meade would have fallen back along his own supply lines to another excellent position to defend Washington and instead of the 1864 trench warfare in Virginia between Grant and Lee, focused on Petersburg, they would have dug their trenches in Maryland. And Grant would have relieved Meade, coming off his victory on the Big Muddy. With the Confederates assailing the Union on Union territory, the 1864 election wouldn't have even been close, Lincoln would have blown McClellan clean out of the war.
Habu,
The 'play along' career survival advice was spot on...thanks.
Keep stir'en the pot sir.
teresita, McClelland might've blown Lincoln out of the war i think you mean.
buddy said:
teresita, McClelland might've blown Lincoln out of the war i think you mean.
Oh, gosh I meant "water"
Sri Lankan Military Blamed for Aid Worker Murders:
Remarkably, neither the army air strikes nor the Tamil Tigers' ground offensive seems to have diminished the desire of both parties for peace. But many awkward details still have to be settled.
Alas, this latest turn of events seems unlikely to break the vicious circle of violence on the island.
Sri Lankan Military
quig said:
"All men are CREATED equal" (My empahsis). We are created equal. We do not remain equal.
Well the Declaration of Independence was that silly Unitarian Thomas Jefferson making theology up again. According to mainstream Christianity we aren't even created equal:
Romans 9:[20] Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? [21] Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
The "all men created equal" phrase is routinely misunderstood - mainly by the socialist left.
The intent 'dedicated to the proposition' that all men be treated equally under the law.
Egypt and the Press:
ON FEBRUARY 23, 2004, Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak phoned Galal Aref, head of the Egyptian Journalists' Syndicate, with some very good news: The country's practice of imprisoning journalists for their writings was going to be eliminated. Mubarak's promise of reform was in line with other optimistic proclamations the president has made in the past few years, such as that of Egypt's first multi-candidate presidential elections in 2005, which hinted that Cairo might be turning toward democracy).
THIS SUMMER, Mubarak followed through on his promise for a new press law, but although the government portrayed it as a "reform," it is unclear that the new law improves matters. The 2006 legislation is noteworthy, however, as one of a few instances where Mubarak has yielded to the demands of protestors.
Egypt and the Press
The phrase in the Declaration was taught to me, as a child down on the lower Mississippi in the faraway 50s, as meaning that in this country, the law of the land is that everyone will by God be treated equally. Of course, it is an ideal--but what an ideal!
Doug said,
"Gerry, how about a book like 'Even If You Haven't Been to Prison, You Can Still Turn Your Life Around'?"
Doug, I think I would have to make it "Even If You Haven't Been to Prison, You Can Still Turn Your Life Around - Unless You're So Darned Stubborn That Nothing Else Will Work, That Is!"
Buddy said,
"dear east and west Texans, today in central Texas was the nicest day since it last rained, back a looong time ago, still bone dry, but the haze blew out with the dry-line that came through."
Buddy, guess you must mean north central Texas. It rained yesterday here in south central Texas. Didn't dry up for at least 30 minutes either.
Just got back, what did I miss?
enscout wrote:
The "all men created equal" phrase is routinely misunderstood - mainly by the socialist left. The intent 'dedicated to the proposition' that all men be treated equally under the law.
Unless you're a dyke and your life partner of 17 years is in the hospital. Then the only way you can get to see her is to lie and say, "She's my sister! No, really!"
bobalharb said:
Easter and the escape from slavery come from the same root, and it is a very deep root.
"I felt good and all washed clean of sin for the first time I had ever felt so in my life, and I knowed I could pray now. But I didn't do it straight off, but laid the paper down and set there thinking - thinking how good it was all this happened so, and how near I come to being lost and going to hell. And went on thinking. And got to thinking over our trip down the river; and I see Jim before me all the time: in the day and in the night-time, sometimes moonlight, sometimes storms, and we a-floating along, talking and singing and laughing..."
Shit, did i just barge in on Romeo and Juliet?
"Did you know Helena Rubenstein is pregnant?"
"Yep, Max Factor."
re: all men are created equal.
There is a truth there, a truth even more fundamental than "equal before the law."
We are all an 'I'. We are all beings for whom being is an issue.
We are all consciousnesses. We all have beliefs, desires, hopes and fears. We are all imperfect. We all believe and act imperfectly.
We can all create, and we can all destroy.
In all that we are created equal. That is why a society must be just.
That is why I'm confident about our future. If the worst injustice Teresita can cite is a lesbian having to fib to get into a hospital room, then I think we are doing just fine. Especially when you think that all trends point toward even that small injustice being legally rectified in the near future.
On the questions that were asked about post-nationalism, immigration, etc., i'm going to have to think on it. My instinct is to say that while loyalties disaggregate from nations to groups, the fundamental loyalty toward that which makes it all possible will remain. No group or individual will allow itself to be dominated, and therefore it seems reasonable that a system of equality will always have more adherents than one that allows one member or group to reign supreme. It's the classic 'cooperation' vs. 'defection' dynamic in evolutionary game theory. As long as the rules that enforce equality work all the time, every time--as long as the rules allow one to minimize his maximum loss, and maximize his minimum gain--people will acquiesce to follow them, form alliances to see that they are followed, and administer costs on those who choose to break the rules.
habu. re Eugene Hasenfuss, did anyone ever figure out Mena?
I know you can't say. Long-armed Dixie Mafia.
aristides--great post. Have you looked into "performatism"? It seems connected to Heidegger's bias toward the real space-occupying and world-acting meaning of being. The performatists are a crew of academics out in California trying to figure out a solution to the self-referential circular deadness of post-modernism. I'm no philosopher, but they grabbed me with some work on the Coen Bros films--the Coens as performatists. Anyone who feels the films are somehow different but can't quite put a finger on why, would enjoy reading the performatists.
habu, yes, that list is incredible--the numbers of accidents and suicides and other unnatural endings. Maybe it's just that the Clintons had/have such a big circle, that statistically, 30 or 40 scandal-related sudden trips to the Great Beyond are nothing more than statistical normalities.
Eugene Hasenfuss.
Have been at work all day and unable to read anything here.
Just wanted to relate how today the war was brought home to me.
A patient came to see me, a 38 year old woman, whom I'd seen just once, in 2003, and did not remember.
Since then her son had enlisted in the Marines, and at 19 years old was killed in the November 2004 Battle of Fallujah. He had been cited for heroism several times.
The odd thing is, I was aware of her son's death (without knowing that it was her son), because soon after he died I saw a little memorial put up to him in a glass case at a local Starbucks. I thought, "Gee, I ought to do something to help that family," and then of course more or less forgot about it.
So I was grateful to have been able to help her (I hope) today.
Jamie Irons
G-d bless ya, Jamie.
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Jamie Irons 8/30/2006 09:45:54 PM
That says a lot about you. I second buddy Larsen :)
Jamie,
More sleep deprived, over-coffeed, and been staring at code all afternoon, so even less able than usual to relate:
Seeing myself lose a 19yr old son when I was 38 is like a scene from Mars.
Her son was probably more grown up at 19 than I was at 38.
And his mom is 38.
Hmm.
I'll try again in the morning.
Bless them both.
habu, this is a url I saved long ago--it only runs up to 2000 or so. Just freaky as all hell. But as I was saying, maybe just statistics.
Did Habu find out if that is a floatation device?
Did bobal have something to do w/it?
I sure did miss somethin!
Jeez, I just used the words "flotation device" not 20 seconds ago, in an email.
Bobal, if that's me who aroused your ire, gotta say, I wasn't mocking, I was emailing about the guy whose family invented the LifeSaver candy, and mentioned that it was modeled on the era's flotation device. I'm mystified on the other flotation device, whatever doug is talking about. Just sent the email, then clicked to BC, and there's the same words, just put there. Sychronicities get me, after a certain hour. They seem meaningful. But I know they're not. Just craving some magic, like everybody else.
Didn't you hear about that CNN Gal with her Mic on in the bathroom?
Bobal picks up e-mails off the internet in those intermittent naps he takes, and you know how things get turned around in your sleep:
He probably thought one of us jokers turned that floation device upside-down:
Talk about a damsel in distress:
Da Dress would be above de blouse and da head would be under de water.
Imagine waking up thinking THAT was real, or even that one of us wished it upon the damsel!
Habu started it all with an innocent question about what the device on Teresita's Icon's Midriff is.
That's what my riff is about above.
"it is your foolishness you are dealing with"
---
Nothing new for me.
I haven't had a lifesaver in years.
Can't say it's been a real trial, though.
More like one of those Kangaroo Kourts.
Confucious say, woman who wear upside-down flotation device in danger of having crack-up.
I wonder if Possumtater ever hitched a ride in a 'roo?
oh, you're right, bobal--sometimes the coarseness just takes over. i'm innocent--it's the damn coarseness.
LOL - can't even type nonsense, for a change.
Tan me hide when i'm dead, Fred--
(must go hit sack, not on Hawarya time zone)
Mr Popal's family insists the devil made him do it by making Mr. Popal dream he was being visited upon by Mr. "D"
'SoOK:
Alaskya again in the morning.
What if Mr Popal thought he was Mr Popeil and that all that fuzz on the back of his head damned him to have fuzzy thoughts.
Not Warm Fuzzies, either.
"doing nothing to stop the Salafist Mosques & Madrassahs from doubling in number"
---
As if Hitler was building little Hitler Youth Schools around the world and we did nothing about it.
AFTER Pearl Harbor.
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I'm Scotch and I probably got something caught up my Kilt.
Tartan Terror.
What's your prescription, C4? Really, no sh*t, for once, why dontcha lay out the proper course for us to see and mull over? I'll check in the morning. If you can't--for once--put together a few paragraphs of broad general plan, then you're still doing what you were doing several years ago, which is howling at the BDS moon. Remember to include congress, the courts, and public opinion, in your sweeping reforms. I'll print out your plan and take it over to my neighbor George Bush's place, next time he's in Crawford.
Didn't the Bard have a Bawdy Sense of Humor, Bobal?
If so, should that be censored out for the kiddies in College?
This here's a POSTGrad War College for Veterans of the Keyboard Conflict.
All these guys stayin up late and gittin Grouchy!
Glad it's not even 9pm here!
Bobal, sorry, but I just went off feed tonite. Didn't mean to insult. ok, gotta go--
oh--just dawned, bobal--the confucious joke. that wasn't aimed at anyone, that's as old as the hills--or the 8th grade--"woman who fly airplane upside down". I just adapted for doug's upside down flotation-device. Trying to make a li'l joke. Teresita was the farthest thing from my mind. ok NOW, i'm outta here--this place is weird after midnite--
Was it you, bobal, that warned of inverted waders?
Were you picturing me floating down the Big Muddy in my Kilt?
Upside Down!
You left out Harry, Buddy.
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