August shorts
You really have to be a sadist to read former UK Defense Minister Michael Portillo's prognosis of military action in Lebanon under French leadership. An excerpt:
We (the other Nato defence ministers) found a word to describe the French habit of making impressive statements with no means to put them into effect. ...
The unclear rules of engagement derive directly from the ambiguity of the French-inspired resolution. But France has nonetheless used the uncertainty as an excuse for delay. ... French forces are now arriving in Lebanon with the mission and the rules still unspecified. ...
At the heart of this mess is France’s reluctance to tackle Hezbollah. ... France’s failures of both diplomacy and nerve have made it less likely that the ceasefire will hold, and made the UN mission more dangerous. ...
Last week a former junior member of the [first] Bush administration, Jeff[d?] Babbin, likened undertaking a military operation without the French to going on a deer shoot without an accordion ... In the case of Lebanon, grandstanding was not enough. He has now stepped forward to do his duty with all the relish of a man slipping into a quicksand ...
Also, Fox News reports that the "two Fox News journalists were released Sunday, nearly two weeks after being seized by militants in Gaza." Reuters had earlier reported that both had suddenly converted to Islam. Video captures of their conversion are shown below below.
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What are the odds both men have seen this movie?
Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin alive, stayin alive
posted by wretchardthecat at 8/27/2006 04:20:00 AM
446 Comments:
What about "E.T" ?
We...wanna...go...home.
http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/movie/et/24.jpg
http://www.originalalamo.com/images/et.jpg
....Yep that's the one !
Anyway! I hope they'll be back home soon, safe and unhurted.
Conversion to Islam....??
Talk about slipping into quicksand.
Ok Wretchard, new keyboard please!
The moment it dawned in my consciousness that the 3rd pic was Travolta from Saturday Night Fever, I was beverage-spewing.
ROFLMBrightAndShinyAO!!
Priceless!!!
Yeah, but now they will be heretics and may be "legitimately" killed unless they follow Islam.
Would have been better if they had used a different finger.....
Noah, yes, but as Ralph Stanley sang in "O Brother, Where Art Thou?",
O, Death
O, Death
Won't you spare me over til another year
Well what is this that I can't see
With ice cold hands takin' hold of me
Well I am death, none can excel
I'll open the door to heaven or hell
Whoa, death someone would pray
Could you wait to call me another day
The children prayed, the preacher preached
Time and mercy is out of your reach
I'll fix your feet til you cant walk
I'll lock your jaw til you cant talk
I'll close your eyes so you can't see
This very air, come and go with me
I'm death I come to take the soul
Leave the body and leave it cold
To draw up the flesh off of the frame
Dirt and worm both have a claim
O, Death
O, Death
Won't you spare me over til another year?
By the way, Y'all don't miss this:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/wsj/?id=110008853
The Socialists and the Islamic Facists in Belgium have made common cause?
It all fits.
Both RWE's and the other Sunday article @ Opinion Journal, Shelby Steele's reflections on the current crisis, are rewarding reads.
Mr. Steel's essay, in clear plain English, is an especially good thing for a Sunday email to those of your kith & kin who may have not been paying attention to this war.
The mystery is why the US would ever enter into a "peace agreement" that is partially authored by the French. Has the run-up to OIF already been forgotten, where the French virtually promised Saddam that they would veto whatever the US painstakingly persuaded the UN to do?
Ps. I was away from a while, could somebody please supply a pointer to the new rules that get your posts deleted? Or perhaps google just hates me.
Palestinians singularly disprove the postulate that every human life has value. Line up the D9s and don't stop until there is a new seawall off the coast where Gaza City used to be.
re: Portillio
Too bad that plain-speaking politicians don't get that way without a "former" in their name.
"The mystery is why the US would ever enter into a "peace agreement" that is partially authored by the French."
Amen.
Well and good to yuck about the French but WTF?
Boston,
Did you read Trish's link and become convinced we're all suffering from Male Menopausal Hysteria over the "so called" IslamoNazi threat?
wretchard wrote:
Fox News reports that the "two Fox News journalists were released Sunday, nearly two weeks after being seized by militants in Gaza." Reuters had earlier reported that both had suddenly converted to Islam.
Jill Carroll: Reciting Koranic Verses Kidnapped American Reporter Recalls The Pressure To Convert To Islam
Now expect a book called "How To Convert To Islam And Save Your Life" to be a surprise best-seller from Madrid to Stockholm. I hope the loony left finds what they're looking for when they submit to Allah, but they should be warned it's a one-way ticket. At least in the much-maligned Christian religion, you can miss Mass skip Protestant services on Sunday without getting 70 lashes.
peterboston wrote:
Palestinians singularly disprove the postulate that every human life has value. Line up the D9s and don't stop until there is a new seawall off the coast where Gaza City used to be.
Krauthammer's idea was to have the Israelis set up five howitzers on their side connected to a radar/computer system that detects when the Pallies launch a rocket. The computer automatically, without human intervention, fires five rounds back on Gaza for every rocket they fire on Israel. Then it becomes a deterrent in the same way a wall implacably deters people from beating their head on it.
Teresita, five-for-one is "disproportionate" -- why not one-for-one?
"Then it becomes a deterrent in the same way a wall implacably deters people from beating their head on it"
---
Unless they're Palestinians.
Or Liberals.
Larsen,
I have a hard time imagining that thing achieving the muzzle velocity of an M-16, but damn, those Balls!
Larsen's Shelby Steele Link
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
"But the international left is in its own contest with American exceptionalism. It keeps charging Israel and America with oppression hoping to mute American power. And this works in today's world because the oppression script is so familiar and because American power cringes when labeled with sins of the white Western past. Yet whenever the left does this, it makes room for extremism by lending legitimacy to its claim of oppression.
Over and over, white guilt turns the disparity in development between Israel and her neighbors into a case of Western bigotry. This despite the fact that Islamic extremism is the most explicit and dangerous expression of human bigotry since the Nazi era. Israel's historical contradiction, her torture, is to be a Western nation whose efforts to survive trap her in the moral mazes of white guilt. Its national defense will forever be white aggression.
But white guilt's most dangerous suppression is to keep from discussion the most conspicuous reality in the Middle East: that the Islamic world long ago fell out of history. Islamic extremism is the saber-rattling of an inferiority complex."
doug has a s-s-s-t-tuttering keyboard.
I was feeling guilty.
Jeez, Steele used hundreds of words to get his point across. While many laymen, on the web, have said the same thing in just a small paragraph or two.
Does he get paid by the word?
Papa Ray
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion. You just leave a lot of useless noisy baggage behind."
— Jed Babbin, former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense
...in the REAGAN administration.
"But what shall it profit a person if they gain the whole world but lose their soul?"
When should we go quietly into that good night? The Deans, Sheehans, Murthas, Polosies, ANSWERs, etc. of the world say "always, there are no absolute truths."
.. Every writer who supports the GWOT should close with the following, and when the last jihadist is caught and sentenced, the same should be inscribed on the condemnation order...
We stand with Quattrocchi.
David Ignatius has been Riding around Iraq with Gen Abizaid.
I think his conclusions are reasonable.
I simply do not understand the psychology of the dreadful Palestinians, nor of any of the terrorist ilk of al-Queda, et al.
WHAT did they think they were accomplishing by this enforced conversion? Do they understand that what it translates into is that Islam is such an awful religion that no one would embrace it who is in their right mind and not at the barrel of a gun?
Do other Muslims applaud this act, since it *must* reflect on them, too? Do they all understand that, or are the whole bunch of them so shallow and uneducated that they buy into the party line that by forcing people to mouth some words they don't mean, Allah will love them more?
When Jill Carroll was abducted in Iraq, there was great ululating and lamentations among Iraqi bloggers, going on and on and on about what a wonderful female person she is. Since she's been freed and back home and speaking out about what REALLY happened, I haven't seen one single Iraqi blogger mention her name. I guess when she's safe and can speak honestly, she becomes a less-wonderful female person.
Fabrizio Quattrocchi's kidnappers forced him to dig his own grave and kneel beside it wearing a hood as they prepared to film his death, but he defied them by pulling off the hood and shouting "Adesso (or ora) vi faccio vedere come muore un italiano." -- "Now I will show you how an Italian dies." He was then shot in the back of the neck.
The Arabic television station Al Jazeera refused to show the videotape of his death, saying it was "too gruesome". Many commentators have celebrated Quattrocchi's defiance and suggested that he ruined the propaganda value of the video by refusing to submit to his captors.
========
OT, but anybody remember this USN vs Iran scuffle, back in 1988?
ari tai said:
"But what shall it profit a person if they gain the whole world but lose their soul?"
Quid enim prodest homini si mundum universum lucretur animae vero suae detrimentum patiatur aut quam dabit homo commutationem pro anima sua
Anima means breath. What Jesus really said was, "What good is it for a man to acquire more possessions than anyone in history, and then die?" But since then, the word anima, translated as "soul", has acquired a lot of theological baggage, and now it is an immaterial something you can "save" or sell to the devil. Even with that definition, you end up on an infinite loop when you say you "have" a soul, because the soul is your identity, it is that part of you which has things.
BTW, Buddy, I don't think they've kidnapped any more Italians since then, have they?
IN DEFENSE OF THE AD HOMINEM
"Political discussion is generally of three types: analysis, philosophy, and advocacy. We discuss events and their impact on electoral races, as if they're sporting events. We talk about the proper role of government. And, we promote issues and candidates. Unfortunately, the line between philosophy and advocacy is blurred, because what we want done follows from what we believe is right.
But neither political philosophy nor advocacy is purely intellectual. Justice isn't defined so much as felt. When our sense of justice is attacked, we do not react by saying, "What a fascinating proposition! I will analyze this and after careful thought decide if this is logical and true." Instead, we fight back. And we must. Politics is war, in the sense that politics determines who controls the land. It is natural to want the people in charge to be in line with our own values.
That is why I am not bothered by the ad hominem attack in political debate. It is an oft-used, but also much-maligned, rhetorical tactic. Charging someone with making ad hominem attacks implies that this person is coarsening civil discourse and helping to wreck civilization. Ad hominem means "against the person." It is the logical fallacy that the truth of a claim depends on the qualities, virtues, or circumstances of the person making the claim. An example: "Jack says '2+2=4,' but Jack is a jerk, Jack's been wrong lots of times before, and Jack is a paid shill of the Mathematics Establishment, so we shouldn't listen to Jack."
We know that 2+2=4, even though we might not like Jack. But we can not apply this lesson to politics. There is usually less objectivity, and far more subjectivity, in factual claims than we care to admit. For the ad hominem is but the inverse of another logical fallacy, the argument from authority. After all, just because Einstein says 2+2=4, does not make it true, any more than an untrustworthy source saying it would make it false. In the real world, however, we get by not on logic, but on trust. We do not have the time to investigate and figure out everything ourselves. We must rely on others, and must choose on whom to rely. We can't help but rely on those who share our values.
The undercurrent beneath the condemnation of ad hominems is the assumption that everyone means well, and everyone's views deserve a fair hearing. The expectation, then, is that we be polite and "agree to disagree." One problem with this is, people are free to express opinions that promote violence and intolerance, such as war or censorship, but in the interest of "civility" others are not free to call them out for these most uncivil positions. Another problem is that everyone advocates policies they think will make the world a better place. Everyone "means well." Everyone, from their own perspective, has "good intentions." Including Osama bin Laden. That does mean it is possible to reason with them.
A third problem is that politics does not depend on logic, but on persuasion. In the long run we are not persuaded just through our rational minds, but by what "feels" right. Debate is about persuading the audience, not the opponent. And associating the opponent with abhorrent beliefs and practices can potentially persuade the audience And if the audience is already on your side, demonizing the enemy in front of them can enthuse and rally them all the more. The ad hominem attack is no more unfair or uncivil than any other logically fallacious rhetorical tactic, precisely because the charges often do stick. If the Congressman receives campaign contributions from defense contractors, how can we trust him when he says our national security depends on spending more on the military? He may even be right, but it is more than fair for his opponent to point out this relationship. Also, other fallacious rhetorical devices often get free reign. Politicians like to throw around words like "compassion" and "for the children" all the time, not to change our minds, but to arouse our passions and confirm our prejudices in favor of more government. Why is this acceptable, but ad hominems are not?
The final problem with condemning ad hominems is that they provide a good place to draw a line in the sand. The ad hominem shouldn't replace valid arguments, because that is a sign of weakness. But still, it is good to use it as a first resort, as an expression of what is simply not acceptable. "I think we need an open, honest debate about the benefits of incest and pedophilia." Uh, no. To play nice, to even engage in the debate, is to grant it some legitimacy. It would be a small victory for the other side. They have their "in." The better response would be, "Get the hell out of here, you creep. Do the world a favor and jump off a bridge."
In discussing political philosophy, it is best to remain and civil and patient as possible, offering up different viewpoints with respect and empathy. When it comes to political advocacy, however, the gloves often have to come off. It is one thing to discuss in the abstract whether the state has the right to ban smoking. But when it comes to advocacy, the defense of liberty may require gouging the eyes, kicking the groin, or whatever it takes to keep those sanctimonious tobacco Nazis off our freaking backs.
Ad hominems may not be the best weapon. They are best used sparingly, preferably but not always when "they started it." The purpose in using them should be persuasion, not just to vent anger. But ultimately, all's fair in politics, particularly when our opponents stand for war, repression, and economic enslavement. It is acceptable to kill in self-defense; why is it unacceptable to call somebody names in self-defense?"
James Leroy Wilson
RWE, guess they have better luck the closer they get to Stockholm?
nahncee said:
Do they all understand that, or are the whole bunch of them so shallow and uneducated that they buy into the party line that by forcing people to mouth some words they don't mean, Allah will love them more?
Galileo just wanted to tell other people about what he saw in his telescope, he didn't expect the Roman Inquisition. He was required to mouth words declaring the immobility of the sun to be "absurd in philosophy and formally heretical", and the mobility of the earth "to be at least erroneous in faith" So think of Islam as being like Christianity, but in a pre-Enlightenment state.
So think of Islam as being like Christianity, but in a pre-Enlightenment state.
Any you wonder why you get the loony toons moniker hung on you? Stop painting targets.
Christianity is to Islam as an Italian suasage is to a dog turd.
Peter, she did give herself considerable cover with the "pre-enlightenment," qualifier.
But, you're still right.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Terestita,
With all respect, this is not quite right:
Anima means breath.
Or only half right. The anima = soul identification is directly analogous to the Greek situation with ψυχή being identified with "soul." In very ancient Greek, in Homer's era, there were a number of words (psyche, thumos, menos, nous) loosely identified with our notion "soul." Psyche (ψυχή) was a sort of "breath soul," as when one "gave up the ghost" (in German Geist, mind, spirit, soul), with a last exhalation some sort of spirit was thought to leave for the underworld (a place not at all like our idea of Heaven, where the souls were not especially happy -- see Pound's first Canto)...
So all these terms are rather vague and have had many shifting meanings over the ages. And by the way, I think you'll recall thhat whatever word Jesus actually used for "soul" in this passage was Aramaic...
And don't forget that Jung (I know, I know!) used the term anima as a word for the feminine part of the soul that we men carry aroun!
;-)
Jamie Irons
Gosh, pretty soon I'm gonna run out of Belmont Clubbers to talk to.
Eppur si muove...
Jamie Irons
around!
Jamie Irons
Actually, PeterBoston and Rufus, I believe if you read up on the history of the Catholic Church pre-Enlightenment, you will find that there is a strong resemblance to the more militant strains of Islam. Both are expansionist, demand total obedience, demand universal (catholic!) adherence, are warlike, accept the legitimacy of forced conversion, are violently anti-Semitic and many other comparisons besides. It is only with the Enlightenment that the Catholic Church became something a modern Westerner would find admirable.
What we need to do is not criticize people for pointing out truths such as this, which portray our ancestors as something less noble than we in some ways or in some cases. Instead, we need to examine them for lessons, because if we became better because of the Enlightenment, for example, it means that there is a similar possibility in Islam, if we can find the way to unlock it.
Which is a far cry from "loony toons", and more in the way of not forgetting the past, so as to avoid being condemned to repeat it. Converting the Catholics to a relatively harmless church via schism and warfare took more than 100 years.
Teresita's 7:42 & 7:49 are right on.
Deja Vu.
Palestinians kidnap westerners, then get all the congrat's when they spring them...
only thing missing was jesse Jackson going over and getting some tv time...
how disgusting, from the LACK of mention of the Israeli soldier that was kidnapped, to the fresh pressed italian suit the prime minister of "batshit-palestine" was wearing, sitting there hold a press conference, listening to the released hostages talking about "palestinian" hospitality and how the "palestinian" story must be told... i wanted to barf.
Here is the story, the Palestinians, tired from shooting their imaginary israeli collaborators, hacking to death any women that has shamed them, or discussing business deals with loaded ak-47's, got bored since their bigger murderous cousins stole the limeline (sorta like the french and italians in lebanon). Now all that happens when these poor misunderstood palestinians shoot kassams is that Israel attacks back! No fun there fur sure....
So they said... Yo Mohammed, let us snatch some new "hostages", and poof! they snatched 2!
But here is the NEW and IMPORVED angle, Let us send a letter and state our demands!
Which name shall we call ourselfs......
Well we cant be Fatah or Hamas since we are in charge now...
how about?
Abu Nidal Organization
Hezbollah
Egyptian Islamic Jihad
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
force 17
Palestinian Islamic Jihad
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command
Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
Al-Qaida
naw, a new group! We can get a new ball cap! let us order them!
Holy Jihad Brigades!
Old Mo would be so proud of our new islamic goosestepping group! the Holy Jihad Brigades..
Listen abdullah, get print shop to print up some NEW and IMPROVED baseball hats, tell all the people that Sunday will be the RED Holy Jihad Brigades hat day, Monday will be the YELLOW Hezbollah, and TUESDAY will be the BLUE HAMAS hat day!
Same disgusting group of terrorists, just different hats.
jeff medcalf wrote:
What we need to do is not criticize people for pointing out truths such as this, which portray our ancestors as something less noble than we in some ways or in some cases.
Thank you Jeff. Now, where have you been for the last week! :-)
Big Rock Candy Mountain
One evening as the sun went down and the jungle fire was burning
Down the track came a hobo hiking and he said boys I'm not turning
I'm headin for a land that's far away beside the crystal fountains
So come with me we'll go and see the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains there's a land that's fair and bright
Where the handouts grow on bushes and you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars are all empty and the sun shines every day
On the birds and the bees and the cigarette trees
Where the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains all the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth and the hens lay soft boiled eggs
The farmer's trees are full of fruit and the barns are full of hay
Oh, I'm bound to go where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall and the wind don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains you never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol come a-trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats and the railroad bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew and of whiskey too
You can paddle all around 'em in a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains the jails are made of tin
And you can walk right out again as soon as you are in
There ain't no short handled shovels, no axes saws or picks
I'm a goin to stay where you sleep all day
Where they hung the jerk that invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
I'll see you all this coming fall in the Big Rock Candy Mountains
Jeff, you're right. However, Christianity at it's worst (and it did get pretty bad) was never as bad as Islam; and, I say this as no big fan of religion, period.
I agreed with Peter in his statement: Why keep painting bullseyes?"
THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
poss -
i've been there many times...
could tell you some amazing stories...
Jeff, you're right. However, Christianity at it's worst (and it did get pretty bad) was never as bad as Islam; and, I say this as no big fan of religion, period.
Well actually far worse than islam is.
however thank g-d that christian era is gone.
Quoting Homer:
"Ummm BEER!"
"When Jill Carroll was abducted in Iraq, there was great ululating and lamentations among Iraqi bloggers, going on and on and on about what a wonderful female person she is.
Since she's been freed and back home and speaking out about what REALLY happened, I haven't seen one single Iraqi blogger mention her name.
I guess when she's safe and can speak honestly, she becomes a less-wonderful female person."
---
Anybody got the names of a few of those bloggers?
possumtater, your 10:48 AM post. This is the essence of the leftist liberal-socialist creed, but I am not sure you do the cause of good goverment a favor by publishing it, it sounds too nice!
Tater's 10:03:38 AM is right on.
Haven't read references yet.
Lenny Bruce: " "I'll give away state secrets -- Caroline Kennedy plays with herself with a bobby pin --just don't give me that hot-lead enema!"
No wonder she'd turned out Liberal.
"...-- why not one-for-one?"
Yeah...like I'd like opt be around when that thing fired....
Re "stages" of a religion, the war that gave us the "Westphalian model" that is suddenly, stupifyingly, no longer relevant:
(edited for brevity)
Magdeburg had a population of thirty thousand, almost completely Protestant. After the a six month siege the Catholic forces managed, on May 20th 1631, to over-run the city. The description of the carnage by Brain Bailey, from his excellent book Massacres:
The enraged Catholic League troops then set about annihilating Magdeburg...Children were thrown into flames and women were raped before being butchered. Fifty-three women were beheaded in a church. No one was spared, regardless of age or sex, and twenty-five thousand of the city’s population were either massacred or burnt to death...[Count von] Tilly [1559-1632; commander of the Catholic forces] held a solemn mass in the cathedral [of Magdeburg] and boasted that no such great victory had occurred since the destruction of Jerusalem. The loss of life in this war was tremendous. It reduced the population of Germany, according to conservative estimates by at least a third; this put the death toll...as high as fourteen million. Peace was finally negotiated in Westphalia in 1648. The positive contribution of this peace was that it finally secularized the western politicians. After this, the pope no longer wielded the secular power that his predecessors had enjoyed. The power of the religion to do harm was reduced tremendously.
"We have no indication at all that this has anything to do with terrorism," said Laura Brown, an FAA spokeswoman."
Recordings of Frantic Cellphone Calls from passengers prior to takeoff screaming:
"There's Two *Asians* wearing Tubans at the controls!"
Have been impounded by the DOE.
Tubans? No wonder they sent them to the DOE.
Doug--is there a real report?
The first responders pull the Exec officer from the cockpit, buddy.
Doubt that he was wearing a tuban or a turban, for that matter.
Looks like they may have used the wrong runway, but first reports should be discounted until confirmed.
The thing to keep in mind about this sort of coerced conversion to Islam is that once one has joined the faith, to later renounce that faith is to become
APOSTATE.
The penalties for the faithful attempting to leave Islam are much harsher than for the infidel.
I would imagine that many clerics over the centuries have issued fatwas declaring it the religious duty of ANY devout Muslim to kill the apostate wherever they find them.
Remember the fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie by the Ayutollah Ruhollah Khomeini, for having offended Islam with his "Satanic Verses?"
Sharia (Islamic Law) may in civil cases acknowledge the unenforceability of coerced contracts, but I'll guarantee that Sharia does not accept that as exemption from punishment for apostasy.
So, having coerced the two newsmen to convert to Islam, if those two later publicly renounce their conversion, and are subsequently murdered by some completely OTHER Islamic M-F, the original kidnappers are free of any blame, at least under Western Law.
I watched Wesley Snipes in "Passenger 57" last night. Apart from the merits or demerits of the movie, it was aggravating more than I have words to describe, just seeing how accurately it portrays the self-mutilating hobbles the West places on itself.
We've grown up since WWII watching a hundred thousand movies (written, directed, and acted by a crowd of Hollywood Liberals mostly) glorifying some insane "Code of the West" by which honor is maintained ONLY by allowing your adversary to draw first blood.
"I'm not even going to START for my gun until I feel my worthy opponents round slam into my shoulder..."
How many times have you seen two, then five, then twelve police officers pile onto a citizen resisting arrest? Invariably some ASS HOLE bystander will say, "Wull, Gee! THAT's not fair!" as though we should rightly require our constabulary to give a suspect even odds of getting away.
In the spring of 1987 a young man in Cincinnati who had been a patient in a mental hospital was allowed to visit his parents for the weekend. Sunday afternoon came, and he did not want to return to the hospital. Locked himself in the bathroom with a kitchen knife. After a few hours of pleading failed to persuade him to emerge, his parents called the police. The call was taken by a young cop in his first year — a “rookie.”
When that police officer arrived, the young man came out of the bathroom, still carrying the knife, and approached the officer. When the guy continued advancing, still with the knife in his hand, despite the officer’s orders to drop it and halt, the officer drew his weapon and fired. Sadly, the young man died of the gsw.
That was (and *is*) standard police procedure, though, even though it might be true that a more experienced officer MIGHT have been able to handle things differently. Many people have been killed by even itty-bitty knives. Some departments have issued standing rules authorizing lethal force if a suspect with a knife approaches as close as six feet.
The next day a bunch of students were talking about this, and several of them insisted — I am not making this up — that the police officer should have shot the knife out of his hand.
We have a very long way to go in getting folks to wake up to reality.
rufus
I agreed with Peter in his statement: Why keep painting bullseyes?"
Et tu, rufus?
Now if they could gaurantee we'd all end of with Clones of Rushdie's wife, they'd start making some progress.
The Mad Fiddler
The next day a bunch of students were talking about this, and several of them insisted — I am not making this up — that the police officer should have shot the knife out of his hand.
I was taught, "Three disabling rounds, center of mass."
"Gosh, that's going to kill him, ain't it?"
"Three disabling rounds, center of mass."
"Think about his wife and kids. How are they going to feel?"
"Three disabling rounds, center of mass."
"Shouldn't you try to hit his legs or something? You don't want the death of another human being on your conscience, do you?"
"Three disabling rounds, center of mass."
Well, hell, Teresita, you know that when you start drawing equivalences between Christianity and Islam (even with qualifying circumstances) you're going to draw fire.
PB
"Christianity is to Islam as an Italian suasage is to a dog turd"
Well there goes my favorite pizza with Sunday football.
Jesus was pointing at something, not himself, but immediately began to be taken for that which he was pointing at, like mistaking the finger pointing at the moon, for the moon it's pointing at. Troubles sprouted like weeds thereafter.
And those Latin theological lawyers! Ayeee, seems the eastern churchfolks had a better grip.
Teresita said...
Gosh, pretty soon I'm gonna run out of Belmont Clubbers to talk to.
8/27/2006 09:55:52 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
teresita,
You hang in there. you give as good as you get and you've got guts and as R.Lee Ermy said as the DI in Full Metal Jacket..sometimes guts is enough...I know this is strange coming from me, but my rough and tumble,ad hominems, insults have garnered me a HUGE following (crowd roars with laughter)..Teresita, it's only a blog, it's only our own arguments bolstered by our knowledge and research. Keep it com'in. Forget what others may think..make your point to hell with them. We're not gonna have any influence on world affairs. So just fire away..I know it is gratifying to be embraced when a point one makes is penned but every one here is, I suspect an "A" type trying to get elected Homecoming King and Queen with the definitive post...ain't gonna happen without some shrinking violets and I see none here.
So, Teresita, have you some law enforcement training / experience in your background?
Should give some perspective.
Apart from people pissing each other off... no, that's not right. Apart from people Getting pissed off over some ascii characters... hmmm...
Sorta seems like part of the problem here is that we have a very restrictive medium of communication, and it's gonna take a fair amount of time to sort things out.
Poop. I guess all I can say is I'm glad folks are still participating. The most important thing here is that our differences may be real, but they should matter far less than the community we are trying to build with our bitty little posts and comments.
We all gotta vent.
Sometimes I just don't hit the "Login and Publish" button.
The advantage of this is it gives me even more time to think of some even more devastating insult, that will establish *ME* as the Avenging Jihadi Commentator...
A Guy’s gotta Vent
A Woman’s gotta vent
All God’s Chirren gotta vent
But who struck John and thar she went
Sometimes the pissypost’s best unsent
Ha--nice scherzo, there, fiddler--
My nurse just brought my meds
I’ll lie down till the posting urge goes away
Up the stream of consciousness
without so much as a paddle
A Guy’s gotta Vent
A Woman’s gotta vent
All God’s Chirren gotta vent
But who struck John and thar she went
Sometimes the pissypost’s best unsent
This is a "Classic," Fiddler. Good'un.
Up the stream of consciousness
without so much as a paddle
he writes to right this awful mess
and ends up in an addle.
12:14:54 PM Habu,
My first was definitive, and in truth, nothing more needed to be said by anyone since.
I just thought I'd do y'all a favor and try to keep you entertained.
Hey, is there a modern-day George and Ira?
The first Blog Musical
PaJaMa & PapaJama
pecking at their keyboards
all the cold night thru
Tanned to a crisp
by the light of the CRT
Projected text in the deathless style
of Speilberg annoints their countenances
'member the raptor in Drastic Park?
magical screens that glow in the dark...
Libretto by Wretchard
ooops. time for more caffeine.
(I know, George & Ira were BROTHERS)
Add a little Sudafed.
---
BLAIR DERANGEMENT SYNDROME
Compliant and subservient:
Jimmy Carter's explosive critique of Tony Blair
(John Preston and Melissa Kite, The Telegraph, August 27th, 2006)
Tony Blair's lack of leadership and timid subservience to George W Bush lie behind the ongoing crisis in Iraq and the worldwide threat of terrorism, according to the former American president Jimmy Carter. Brothers Judd
jeff medcalf
The Enlightenment happened about 1,700 years after Catholicism began so I think it a stretch to say that no Westerner could find anything admirable for those first 17 centuries.
If you want to attribute behavior to ideology, religious or otherwise, you should be able to point to the Canon of that ideology and say "See, there it is. Catholics believe that and that's why Catholics act that way."
Now, I can do a "see that" hundreds of times in the Koran and from Mohammed's biography to connect depraved behavior and canonical ideology. Can you do even one "see that" with Catholic Canon? I'm not the final expert on such matters, but I cannot.
Bennet has something like:
Religions are as religions do or something a little more poetic.
---
Timothy McVeigh! Timothy McVeigh! Timothy McVeigh! Timothy McVeigh! Timothy McVeigh! Timothy McVeigh! Timothy McVeigh! Timothy McVeigh! Timothy McVeigh!
Attaboy, Sport.
Some of you people here are really shameless. I really don't understand how or why Richard puts up with you peeing his blog.
Another August short:
I received the following from a post to my own blog and RCP.
Ahmedinajad said...
ISLAM IS THE RELIGION OF ABRAHAM, MOSES, JESUS AND MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON THEM ALL). WAKE UP FEAR THE GOD OF ISRAEL AND THE UNIVERSE. AS A WESTENER THE RATE OF ISLAMS INFLUENCE IS SKY ROCKETING ESPECIALLY IN EUROPE. SO STOP BURYING YOUR HEADS IN THE SAND (no pun intended) LIKE OSTRICHES.
Visit the following websites for further information on ISLAM.
http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM
(MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE)
http://bible.islamicweb.com/
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-galloway_060806,00.html
http://ifamericansknew.com/
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm (Quran and Science)
http://www.harunyahya.com/
http://www.barnabas.net/
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm
http://www.islamicity.com/
http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml
http://www.islamalways.com/
While I do not know the individual doing the post, at least I (and we) have a reading list to listen to and study. I am reading all of it.
Here is the original post that prompted the response:
Protecting a basic human right…my life
Now I have had to think about Islam and me
Like most, I continue to do my homework on Islam and what I thought was its cause against the west.
Now I am coming to think the attack on the cultural west is led and financed by less than a 1,000 humans. These 1,000, probably more like 200 to 300 leaders, are a cabal of religious zealots (some already dead) and select family tribal financiers using their oil powered dollars to protect themselves as they try to finance our destruction.
I also am coming to think that the majority of our small cabal of enemies are Sunni Moslems (95% of Islam). The Iranians tend to be Shiite Moslems (5% of Islam), and often distract us as to figuring out who our enemies are.
The Iranian theocracy and president are part time players. Even then, we must respect them for their efforts, and the probable three nukes they bought in autumn 1991 from Nursultan Nazarbayev, the president of Khazakhstan.
That Russia belongs to the eastern world is part of history as it covered up all this Khazakhstan episode. That it still influences some of these now Iranian possible nukes is the problem of the present Russian leaders. Who really knows in the west? And I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday.
I also have come to believe the vast majority of young Islamic martyrs are created by the horrible failure of a civilization and culture called Islam. Nothing in the West to date has changed this state of failure. In my poor analogy of east and west, lack of upward mobility and opportunity for young people is like being in the military when you know you will probably be dead in the near future. Then I will do some crazy and wild things. (Of course this is theoretical since my times in the Marines never placed me in such a mental state, and I was not in the 8th Air Force or the Kriegsmarine’s U-boats in WWII).
Rather than use my words about the failure of Islam as a civilization and tribe, I offer three links for those who want to read other opinions.
One is by the UN and is written by Arabs: http://www.meforum.org/article/513
The second is by an Israeli academic: http://samvak.tripod.com/brief-middleeast01.html
The third is by a columnist I like: http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/arabs_last_chance_opedcolumnists_ralph_peters.htm
I have also come to believe the cabal of our enemies is concentrated in Arab lands, Pakistan, and “old” Europe. Even the Iranian element is dominated by Arabs, not Persians.
That there are Islamic cells in other countries such as the Philippines (Moro) and Indonesia is a reflection of their more local frictions. But in my homework on finding enemy locations, the cabal is not there.
That the Arab world’s young people are so ripped off by its religious despots, dictators, and the royal families who keep most of the oil cash is their shame.
Our shame is the strong presence in the west of yellow journalism, propaganda, parachute journalism, and the embarrassing gullibility of dealing with deceit.
Here is the fault line to attack…Never have so many been threatened and attacked by a cabal of so few.
The terrorist mass attacks on civilians is statistically small, but huge in its impacts on our way of life, and our own politics, and our finances.
Before we attack, consider this.
Time is on our side. Most opponents are losers (as in small despots, criminals, ideologues , and anarchists). Strategies to exploit their weaknesses will save us a lot of effort, money, and distraction. This assumes our leaders are savvy enough. And the relatively recent oil income of theirs will eventually fade away, in decades.
Time is on our side another way. The traditional western media outlets are collapsing of their own weight. As more locals read news by outsiders who report nothing like what is going on or thought, then the locals will find other sources of “just the news”.
Our western culture idea of nation states has been so abused by tribal and criminal elements that new control of many small nation states will be change for the better of the west.
War 101. The Powell doctrine is always appropriate. To me it appears in our national interest to protect our way of life, and so to commit to such an effort is a good deal.
We must attack and hopefully quickly eliminate most of the cabal that plots our demise. They are not our moral equals. This is a military attack, not a legal attack. This is not assassination, this is war. President Jefferson did it against the Barbary Pirates, and we can do it again.
Expect the normal hand wringing by those ideologically opposed to our way of life, or the military approach.
I expect the attack to be: quick, timed, probably from the air and space and undercover, deadly to the 200 to 300 targeted people, fraught with mistakes by us (mostly in strategic intelligence) , and subject to later counter attack.
In “old” Europe, whether the cabal types have accidents, go to the dungeons, or are tried by local standards that truly take them out of the game, is a wash to me. Mission first.
And the vacuum created by such an attack will unleash monumental forces of Islamic young people that will result in many small wars (a strategic goal of OBL), but almost all to the west’s advantages as the yoke of Islam’s failures are replaced by still volatile nation states with more western exposures. That such movements can be manipulated by those cabal follow-on types is part of how we fight this war.
Don’t be surprised if other local frictions become physical, as in internal-China, China-Taiwan, North Korea-Japan, Japan going nuclear, and Kashmir. After all, WWI prompted a revolution in Russia.
I think change is good. It’s getting there that is difficult.
I do hope Iraq becomes three countries, that Kurdistan and Baluchistan become countries, and generally things become more tribal. Having served in Turkey (an ally), most there would disagree with me about the Kurds. Maybe they are right.
And maybe just giving things almost infinite time will allow things to somehow sort out. Maybe the vast Muslim populations will take out this cabal. Maybe we can pay tribute as did President Jefferson’s predecessors.
The French are all hubris and no character.
Re: Bush’s Poodle Blair
Jimmy Carter and Mahathir Mohammadmust be reading from the same talking points
It's difficult to picture Jimmy Carter and not see the real Manchurian Candidate. I was around during the Carter years and knew then that he saw that his main purpose in life was to knock down the United States. I can easily conjure the flashbacks of contrasting Kennedy's "we will do it not because it is easy but because it is hard" with Carter's "Americans have to accept less."
I don't think it coincidental that the term "zero sum' became popular during the Carter years. He never saw the USA as the engine that could lift the standard of living for people everywhere. He has always has wanted to take the engine apart and distribute its pieces. If there is ever a Milleneium Useful Idiot Award Jimmy Carter is a lock.
"Some of you people here are really shameless."
---
That does seem like the simplest, most likely, explanation.
After the Nixon Funeral, A Malaise settled over the Peanut Farm, and Roselyn laid down the law:
"Jimmah! You put down that hammer and bring me back a Nobel Prize.
The rest as they say..."
That was good, Doug. I'll shave to that.
just a marine, I don't think your view of a small number of people being behind Islamo-fascism. But even if true can we identify all these and thieir disciples? It is impactical although it is a nice idea to think we could just take out a select group, more like a police action than military. Oops, thats a liberal leftist notion.
Slight typo: Please add "is correct" at the end of the first sentence, my las post.
Thanks, Buddy Larsen for the link to the article describing the 1988 USNavy engagement in the Persian Gulf, especially Operation Praying Mantis.
I had thought I was paying attention to the news at the time, but there are aspects of that period I’d never heard of before. I honestly don’t recall anything in the news about this battle, which is described as the largest naval surface-warfare battle since WWII.
For anyone else innarested, here are some URLs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis
http://www.nightstalkers.com/history/4.html
http://www.navybook.com/nohigherhonor/pic-iranajr.shtml
http://www.navybook.com/nohigherhonor/vid-prayingmantis.shtml
Makes me think we might have hope after all...
the mad fiddler said:
Sorta seems like part of the problem here is that we have a very restrictive medium of communication, and it's gonna take a fair amount of time to sort things out.
I agree. I'm fairly new here, so I'm still figuring out who restricts their repartee to the playground of ideas, and who restricts their ideas to playground repartee. Things will smooth out by and by, after I decimate.
bobalharb said:
Jesus was pointing at something, not himself, but immediately began to be taken for that which he was pointing at, like mistaking the finger pointing at the moon, for the moon it's pointing at. Troubles sprouted like weeds thereafter.
"What did you think the vittles was for?"
"For a dog."
"So 'd I. Well, it wasn't for a dog."
"Why?"
"Because part of it was watermelon."
"So it was -- I noticed it. Well, it does beat all that I never thought about a dog not eating water- melon. It shows how a body can see and don't see at the same time."
Teresita,
Things will smooth out by and by, after I decimate.
I don't follow you here.
(A serious, honest query.)
Jamie Irons
Re: "Just a Marine" 01:10:36 PM
Good post! Well thought out, and thought-provoking.
Surely the real issue is not with the Muslims or Arabs -- it is the dissension within the west. One trivial example -- one of the London Sundays had an article asserting that most Brits do not like any of their political parties, and a substantial percentage are thinking about leaving the country. Does not sound like a country ready to take serious steps to insure its own survival.
Another example: considering mere technology & resources, the US could wean itself off imported oil within a decade or so -- but the US people would have to be prepared to disrupt the habit of a few snail darters, build a bunch of nuclear power plants, and strip mine a lot of oil shale -- which would first mean building a new infrastructure of heavy industry. So far, the will is not there.
The real future conflict could well be the one *within* the west: liberal elites, bureaucrats, & academics versus the rest. And a west weakened by internal dissent could provide tempting opportunities for a China or a Russia -- to say nothing of Islamo-fascists.
The underlying message seems to be -- let's enjoy life while we can; our world is going to become steadily more "interesting".
Thanks to "Just a Marine"
Magnificent post.
Thanks for the research, and for having faith in us to take the time to absorb and act.
Sometimes venting on these blogs seems a waste of energy, but I think they have a several good effects, all of which flow from planting little seeds and scattering them to the winds. Individually our efforts may seem trivial. But they accumulate, like the individual cells in a root that in time can crack stone and heave it aside.
It's kinda like studying and studying and reviewing and checking with the neighbors to see if you've missed anything so you'll know which way you should vote on whether to build a new hospital or a school or a nuclear power plant.
I'll be studying your links for a while, and will shut up shutting up.
BurmaBobalharb
just a marine
Maybe the vast Muslim populations will take out this cabal. Maybe we can pay tribute as did President Jefferson’s predecessors.
Ahmedinajad says he will destroy Israel and Middle East light sweet crude posts 2 dollars higher overnight. How is this not already tribute?
Maybe this will help, Jamie
Fiddler,
Individually our efforts may seem trivial. But they accumulate...
Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi, sed saepe cadendo...
;-)
Jamie Irons
Doug, two of the Iraqi bloggers who commented on Jill Carroll when she was first abducted were: 24Steps to Liberty at http://twentyfourstepstoliberty.blogspot.com/, and Treasure of Baghdad here http://baghdadtreasure.blogspot.com/
* * *
OT sorta/kinda - Australia and Indonesia have been playing tit for tat games the last year or so with Indonesia busting Australians who they claim are drug mules, and then Australia being appalled at the harsh sentences meted out as well as questions about whether or not the Australians were set up, presumably to wring concessions and/or bribes out of them to avoid the stiff jail sentences they've been receiving.
At least one of the Australian women was reported to have converted to Islam while she was in jail. She was photographed in the hijab and the rest of the cloak-like garments. After she was repatriated, she said that she did it to avoid being raped by the native jailers, that once she donned the hijab and announced she was Muslim, they left her alone. I don't believe there have been any repercussions about her denouncing her enforced conversion.
Wonder what it would take to get some Saudi sheikh to issue a fatwa that if you convert at the end of a gun or to avoid being raped, it doesn't count.
Thanks.
Kinuachdrach said:
Another example: considering mere technology & resources, the US could wean itself off imported oil within a decade or so -- but the US people would have to be prepared to disrupt the habit of a few snail darters, build a bunch of nuclear power plants, and strip mine a lot of oil shale -- which would first mean building a new infrastructure of heavy industry. So far, the will is not there.
Oh there's a lot of bitching and moaning because we're on the top of a spike right now, but soon enough it will fall back into the grass and we'll be spoiled again.
The mad fiddler said:
Sometimes venting on these blogs seems a waste of energy, but I think they have a several good effects, all of which flow from planting little seeds and scattering them to the winds.
I myself read this blog for many moons before getting a blogger account and weighing in. The ideas kicked around here go out into the marketplace of ideas and roll around for a while and might even influence public policy. It's a Third Millenium version of the Greeks standing in the agora letting fly with their jibber-jabber.
"and might even influence public policy."
---
Federal Govt Mandates Lithium in Drinking Water.
Doug,
Federal Govt Mandates Lithium in Drinking Water
The euthymic among us might protest that...
Also, very difficult to control the levels, due to the wide variation in drinking habits...
;-)
Jamie Irons
I'm OK, You're OK, Nasrallah is A-OK
(Berne)
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Whit,
It's another new Google "Feature"
In Olden Tymes, you could search for comments and it worked perfectly.
Rumor is, they wanted to censor Tony.
I hope Wretchard will put the search bar back on the blog so we can at least search for blog titles.
Turns out, they wanted to censor Whit.
Okay, all you* suddenly morally superior peace lovers / international military stragegy experts: please explain how the policy of ignoring our enemies’ declarations and acts of war is a good idea, based on the precedent of American policy during the 90’s that followed that exact model. Tell us how ignoring our embassies being bombed, our warship the USS COLE being attacked, and even treating the original bombing of the World Trade Center as purely a “law enforcement matter” was sensible policy, and therefore why we should return to such policy.
Lay it on us – you have the perfect example with Iran, who is ignoring the UN Security Council venue where we have taken the grievance, just like Saddam did. Here’s an example for you to tell us how it should be done. Here we are trying to stop another known, active, historic enemy from acquiring WMD’s in 2006, it’s a perfect analogy for Iraq in 2003. Tell us how you will solve this current situation, the way that dumb ol’ Bushie should have solved Iraq.
* not you personally, silly!
Way, way OT:
Tiger Woods and Stewart Cink in a terrific hole by hole playoff, Bridgestone Invitational...
(I'm partial to Tiger as he's a Stanford classmate of my oldest son...)
;-)
Jamie Irons
Sorry about that Doug, I was going to correct "the super-duper hyperlink" and then just decided to delete the whole thing.
tony said:
Here we are trying to stop another known, active, historic enemy from acquiring WMD’s in 2006, it’s a perfect analogy for Iraq in 2003. Tell us how you will solve this current situation, the way that dumb ol’ Bushie should have solved Iraq.
Walk away. We've had historic enemies who acquired WMDs before (USSR, China) and as soon as they got their nuclear mojo they found out it's only good for retaliation and you can't go swinging the thing around. Have the President give a State of the Union address outlining a doctrine that says the first use of nuclear weapons by any rogue state, no matter how limited the attack (or whether the attack was with a dud), will automatically result in the disproportionate and total annihilation of that state's military and industrial capability.
Then go back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Dan Gordon, a reserve captain (Information Officer) in the IDF during the recent war (and mentioned on Michael Totten's blog) has written an appreciation of the strategies used by Israel during the war. He has a firm opinion on who won and what the future challenge is:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5800
Jezz Doc:
Rub it in. You live in one of the most beautiful places in the country. You're bright, wealthy and very well educated and your son went to Stanford with Tiger.
You're going to have to start gratis counseling for inferiority complexes.
Or is that complexi?
signed, your patient
It's the way of the Tao,
Tony.
Trust Us.
(and abracadabra)
In fact, you might try SAYING
abracadabra a few times every morning.
Couldn't Hurt.
Un ennui frais a surmonté le club
BTW Doc:
While I have you on-line, do you have anything for green skin?
Lately, I noticed a little discoloration. :)
Rich,
That's a geat analysis...
Jamie Irons
Careful, Tater might take a bite.
Tater likes his veggies.
La pente sans fin, le manque de vitalité, est trop mauvaise. Ennui, la mort. Une opinion de possoms. Je parlerais plutôt des tracteurs.
Whit,
You're very kind.
But I'm just a country doctor, and a very ordinary person.
Jamie Irons
Whit, green skin remedy--be "warm-blooded". And give live birth (no egg-laying). Ovoviviparousity'll green ya up every time!
les vieux marsupiaux ne devraient pas traverser la route
En avant à la discussion de tracteur sur d'autres emplacements!
Doc,
Do you practice regular medicine, psychiatry, or both?
M. Larsen a filtré mon humeur mais je l'ai méritée.
whit
Vieil ami trop véritable, trop vrai. Mais l'observation d'une matrice de pigeon est semblable à observer cent matrices.
Whit, this'll really make ya jealous--dude's a good poet, too!
Tater:
If you'll talk English,
I'll talk Tractor.
Larsen,
Just give me the quantity of production!
Any quality is OK.
Last night I learned two new rules about cascading stylesheets.
Pretty impressive, huh?
Now if I could make it rhyme.
Jealous? Who me?
I saw his poetry.
He's a renaissance man! And I say that with the plus grands respect et admiration,
Habu, would you have P-Tater translate that last missive please?
Why can't he cure Islamophobia?
Maybe Cedarford is right.
Das repition ist alt und ich werde Zeit anderwohin verwenden dort bin viel, zum im Leben und in wenig Zeit zu tun!
Zo is het wat pret geweest maar het leven beweegt zich vooruit.
Now if I could make it rhyme
Of stylesheets Doug learned to cascade,
and now he won't quit, I'm afraid.
Whit,
Ignore Buddy Larsen.
I paid him $1,000.00 in genuine North Korean counterfeit US "supernotes" for that compliment.
Jamie Irons
Doug,
I'm a general adult psychiatrist, originally a family practitioner (mostly on the Navajo Indian reservation), and most of my work is in consulting with internists, surgeons, and other "real doctors" on psychiatric aspects of their patients' problems.
Jamie Irons
Jetzt gibt das Beuteltier mir einen Unterlegenheitkomplex.
(Now the marsupial is giving me an inferiority complex)
Actually, Buddy and I are each other's "sock puppets."
Oldest Internet scam in the books.
We pay each other in genuine North Korean (when we can't get those, genuine Hezbullard) counterfeit $100 "supernotes" to say nice things about each other.
That darn Buddy, though, his fees keep going up. The Hezbullard and NoKo counterfeiters can hardly keep up with the demand.
Jamie Irons
(Now I will, finally, shut up. I've gone way, way over the two-post limit.)
I looked at the courses required for psychiatry and decided maybe I'll tackle that in the next incarnation.
(not the translation)
At what point in a persons life does spending 4-8 hours a day discussing endless diplomatic and historical points that one can not change become obsessive? And I know this may sound a bit pretentious but the knowledge I gain doesn't come close to the knowledge I have. It is similar to watching a 4 hour NASCAR race, except there a resolution is reached. And as much as I like racing I usually only watch the last 50 laps.
04:22:01 PM That only counts on the first 50-100.
The Commutariat has spoken.
Tater,
What if we add flaming accidents?
If there's one thing I can't stand,
it's Pretentious Possums.
Possum:
Maybe Doc Irons will address the question.
I'm sure my wife would appreciate a cure.
Crap! Reality Sucks, Whit.
Why'd you say that?
If he weren't so Pretentious,
that Possum mighta learned a little
humility perusing the Good Docs works.
Oh well.
From th' highlands there came an old Scot
who ended up in the islands, a sot.
posts comments like mad,
they're invariably bad,
'cause a George Bush supporter he's not.
whit,
our esteemed colleague the good doctor may say it isn't an obsession unless you can't resist it's tug.
it may well be that that makes little difference.
but my orbit has manifestly been static now as opposed to forward motion ... something I've never considered good.
Okay, that was cruel. But you axed for production, quality unimportant! How many things rhyme with 'scot' anyhoo? Give me a minute and I'll do an atonement limerick.
Depends on yer perspective:
That last line about absolved me of all guilt by my reckoning.
Thanks!
I mean I'm not here to impress the Kool Aid Drinkers!
Oh, please, forgive me I've sinned,
A malicious bad limerick I've penned--
I meant not to hurt
(it was only a blurt),
but into this thread does not blend.
Tater keeps trying to boost himself out of this holding orbit, but our magnificent gravity always pulls him back.
Sunday is unblended thread day.
I guess I'm overdrawing my NoKo fake dollar account. No amount of cabbage can cover the stink I'm makin.
Please address Possum before you go:
Either convince him to stay,
or show me away.
(out)
Nasrallah, Oop, I screwed up; Sorry.
Links like that make checking back often worthwhile for me.
Thanks, Rufus.
Nazrollah's "admission" -- isn't it just more of the "disproportionate" agitprop operation?
Audio interview with Lt. Col. Buzz Patterson is now up at
http://regimeofterror.com/archives/2006/08/interview_with_lt_col_buzz_pat/
for those who are interested.
mark, the link no workee--
Rufus,
Very good link.
I'm quite fond of Captain Ed.
Jamie Irons
(Doug gave me a dispensation to comment.)
;-)
Teresita wrote:
"Have the President give a State of the Union address outlining a doctrine that says the first use of nuclear weapons by any rogue state, no matter how limited the attack (or whether the attack was with a dud), will automatically result in the disproportionate and total annihilation of that state's military and industrial capability."
OK - but that brings us back to Wretchard's recurrent underlying question: How far would we go?
Say there is a nuclear fissle in San Francisco -- some radiation dispersed, Gay Pride Parade interrupted, no serious harm. Does anyone think that the US would nuke one or more countries in response?
Say there is a genuine, albeit small, nuclear explosion -- but the damage is confined to Oakland. What then?
Say there has been an election since the previous President made that speech. Will the new Administration feel compelled to implement the prior Administration's threat?
Don't get me wrong -- I like the idea. But making it credible would require a whole lot more testosterone and a whole lot more common purpose than has been apparent in US politics of late.
Actually, I would like to take your idea a step further -- if there is a nuclear explosion anywhere in the world on the territory of the US or one of its allies, then North Korea, Iran, & Pakistan cease to exist -- no effort to restrict damage only to military & industrial capacity. If any of those parties don't like being on that list, follow Libya's example. Instead of Mutual Assured Destruction, it is Unilateral Assured Destruction. And, by the way, the US will henceforth observe the Anti-Powell doctrine -- we break it, you fix it; fix it wrong, and we will break it again.
But any declarations would be pointless unless the people it was intended to influence really truly believed that the US would reliably implement it. And that just is not the case these days.
kinuauchdrach wrote:
Say there is a nuclear fissle in San Francisco -- some radiation dispersed, Gay Pride Parade interrupted, no serious harm. Does anyone think that the US would nuke one or more countries in response?
Simple, here is part two of the doctrine: All declared nuclear states not in good standing with the international atomic energy agency are responsible for the detonation of errant devices. In other words, if a terrorist lights off a nuke, it will be exactly equivalent to Iran and North Korea (and maybe Venezuela if they wanna join that club) both lighting one off. This gets Israel off the hook--they are not declared.
Powerline has the picture of the Reuter jurnalists' car damaged by what they claim is an Israeli strike in Gaza. It seems that they used the Lebanese RedCross ambulance for a model since the Reuters car also includes rust patches :) :) :)
Teresita wrote:
"Simple, here is part two of the doctrine: All declared nuclear states not in good standing with the international atomic energy agency are responsible for the detonation of errant devices."
OK -- but we still have to address Wretchard's question, and more. How would we make sure that the Bad Guys really believed that the US would follow through on any declaration?
There are probably two prerequisites.
First, near unanimity in the US. All major political candidates, parties, organizations are explicitly & loudly committed to the declaration. Those entities that are not (e.g., Daily Kos, New York Times, BBC, UN) are laughingstocks within the US.
Second, a demonstration. Say, a single submarine-launched ICBM with a dummy concrete or depleted uranium warhead dropped on a high visibility target in each of the countries on the "List".
Unfortunately, the second is not going to happen without the first. And the first is not going to happen until after the next civil war -- or until after a series of major attacks on the US mainland.
Agreed.
luc,
That's a VERY Corrosive Environment,
and you sir, just make it more so.
RE: Taters Ad Homina
Sounds like the culinary equivalent of the law of diminishing returns. I think the outline has been clearly - starkly - delineated. Most readers of the site can see the basic outline - the Shelby Steele essay an eloquent summation. We are anxious to get on with it.
As a youngish adult - approaching thirty IIRC - I discovered that both of my parents harbored lingering hostility, suspicion, and clear resentment for the Japanese. I recall being shocked. I am 52 so I was raised during the ‘era’. With recent developments, I am decidedly less shocked.
Recent topics have addressed the militarization of the western world. Wretchard’s fairy tale is correct. Our faces will turn black with hatred and we will kill. Is that a loss or a victory? I only raise the question because it has been deemed important by others. It is a non-issue in my mind. I also think it is a wee bit pretentious. We aren’t dealing with the rocket science of human psychology. Someday we might. But not today.
So order me up a plate of taters ad homina. If I’m gonna fight, I need my carbs.
Bob,
What about steps suggested in
Trish's link first?
---
My list would include shutting down the Mosques of hate, and deporting or incarcerating the "holy men" that spewed there.
Border security, visa reform, on and on.
Unfortunately, I agree with Mr unspellable up there, that we aren't even ready for that YET.
I guess trish's comment and link and mine are in the last thread.
(hers will be easier to find ;-)
Kinuachdrach said...
How would we make sure that the Bad Guys really believed that the US would follow through on any declaration?
We don't care if they believe we would follow through on any declaration. All we have to do is just follow through on our declaration.
All major political candidates, parties, organizations are explicitly & loudly committed to the declaration. Those entities that are not (e.g., Daily Kos, New York Times, BBC, UN) are laughingstocks within the US.
You do this by initiating a vast project to turn the United State into a gated covenant community protected by a laser and ABM shield. Instead of running around on the DMZ in Korea, the Army can pretend there's a DMZ along the border with Mexico and Canada. This project swallows up all discretionary funding that would otherwise build bridges to nowhere and projects like the "Robert C. Byrd Museum of Redneck History" and all military spending that would otherwise keep US forces oveseas in Germany, Korea, Okinawa, etc. Funds (and the attendant jobs) to be distributed according to the extent at which a representative or senator is on board the project. FCC and IRS harrassment and Senate hearings for media outlets who favor the European appeasement model.
I want my bridge and my Big Byrde KKK Kostum.
Forget border security.
(I like to stay in touch w/reality
...sometimes)
Jamie, if you have a brother, I think I met him at a reunion, circa 1992. Same bus trip to a picnic as when I met the brother of Frederica von Stade.
I met a guy who said his brother was doing counseling on a Navajo reservation.
Was that anywhere near the Hopi villages? My brother and I spent 2 weeks on the Hopi reservation (which consists of three mesa communities right in the middle of a vast Navajo reservation a few hours outside of Flagstaff...)
Doug, not to roll on an argument, but absolutely. I was talking in terms of Plan B ... or C. A good strategist is happily surprised when the game is over.
Not counseling.... MEDICINE
Jerusalem Channel 2 News
Fiddler,
Did you, or did you not take Violin lessons in Oxnard?
(obviously, an answer is optional, but so is Jamies ;-)
Click on medium quality.
Doug said...
luc,
That's a VERY Corrosive Environment,
and you sir, just make it more so.
8/27/2006 06:47:47 PM
Doug,
I guess corrosion is to be expected with my background ;)
Doug,
Violin lessions with Betty Ruth Dayton, at her little stucko 3-room studio just a few blocks from the the central square. I also played violin in the Dennis McKenna elementary school orchestra, then the Haydock Junior High School orchestra, and then the Ventura County Symphony.
All that was between 1958 and 1962.
Were you in the Horn Section?
Or did you agress upon a drum?
I played the whoopee cushion.
I thought you'd remember ;-)
(even if you forgot, it would seem to be rather obvious)
Citizen Journalist Report
Anyhoo, just wondered when you lived near G_d's country.
Went to UCSB back in the good old days.
...well, maybe they weren't so good:
That's when Joe Wilson was there, followed by Barbara Bodine!
----
----
My dad lived in and loved Ojai for a few years, so took the family there on trips.
Wheeler's Hot Springs and etc.
luc 07:48:40 PM add severe aging and you've got my situation.
Doug said...
luc 07:48:40 PM add severe aging and you've got my situation.
8/27/2006 08:03:45 PM
Doug, in that case we both must suffer from the same condition which is not a bad one to have considering what the alternative is ;)
southern Cal in the 50s & 60s
Northern Cal from 93-2003
Between, I always told people "I'm from California."
Now I'm homesick, except for all the people that believe in the Tooth Fairy.
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