Wednesday, February 08, 2006

The past as prologue

The Ranting Sandmonkey, an Egyptian blog, illustrates just how bogus the MSM refusal to discuss the Danish cartoons "out of respect for Islam" is:

Freedom For Egyptians reminded me why the cartoons looked so familiar to me: they were actually printed in the Egyptian Newspaper Al Fagr back in October 2005. I repeat, October 2005, during Ramadan, for all the egyptian muslim population to see, and not a single squeak of outrage was present. Al Fagr isn't a small newspaper either: it has respectable circulation in Egypt, since it's helmed by known Journalist Adel Hamoudah. Looking around in my house I found the copy of the newspaper, so I decided to scan it and present to all of you to see.

One of those pictures is shown below.



First the BBC reports that a spurious pig-picture was included in the Jyllands-Posten cartoon set when it was added on by a radical Danish imam, then American newspapers refuse to even discuss the cartoons "out of respect for Islam". Instapundit notes that the New York Press staff walked out after management refused to print the Danish caricatures of Mohammed.

Editor-in-Chief Harry Siegel emails, on behalf of the editorial staff:

New York Press, like so many other publications, has suborned its own professed principles. For all the talk of freedom of speech, only the New York Sun locally and two other papers nationally have mustered the minimal courage needed to print simple and not especially offensive editorial cartoons that have been used as a pretext for great and greatly menacing violence directed against journalists, cartoonists, humanitarian aid workers, diplomats and others who represent the basic values and obligations of Western civilization. Having been ordered at the 11th hour to pull the now-infamous Danish cartoons from an issue dedicated to them, the editorial group -- consisting of myself, managing editor Tim Marchman, arts editor Jonathan Leaf and one-man city hall bureau Azi Paybarah, chose instead to resign our positions.

And now it turns out that these cartoons have been circulated in the Muslim world, in Egyptian newspapers to be precise, as far back as October 2005. Amir Taheri says the Multiculti "intellectuals" have been humbugged. Taken. Sold some phony interpretation of Islam the way you would take a rube to the Olive Garden for Italian food, Taco Bell for Mexican, or serve up chop-suey and General Tso chicken as authentic Chinese cuisine. According to Taheri the whole "you can't portray Mohammed" injunction was largely drummed up by snake-oil salesmen who found a ready market of people ready to fall all over themselves in the West.

But how representative of Islam are all those demonstrators? The "rage machine" was set in motion when the Muslim Brotherhood--a political, not a religious, organization--called on sympathizers in the Middle East and Europe to take the field. A fatwa was issued by Yussuf al-Qaradawi, a Brotherhood sheikh with his own program on al-Jazeera. Not to be left behind, the Brotherhood's rivals, Hizb al-Tahrir al-Islami (Islamic Liberation Party) and the Movement of the Exiles (Ghuraba), joined the fray. Believing that there might be something in it for themselves, the Syrian Baathist leaders abandoned their party's 60-year-old secular pretensions and organized attacks on the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus and Beirut. ...

There is no Quranic injunction against images, whether of Muhammad or anyone else. When it spread into the Levant, Islam came into contact with a version of Christianity that was militantly iconoclastic. As a result some Muslim theologians, at a time when Islam still had an organic theology, issued "fatwas" against any depiction of the Godhead. That position was further buttressed by the fact that Islam acknowledges the Jewish Ten Commandments--which include a ban on depicting God--as part of its heritage. The issue has never been decided one way or another, and the claim that a ban on images is "an absolute principle of Islam" is purely political. Islam has only one absolute principle: the Oneness of God. Trying to invent other absolutes is, from the point of view of Islamic theology, nothing but sherk, i.e., the bestowal on the Many of the attributes of the One.

The claim that the ban on depicting Muhammad and other prophets is an absolute principle of Islam is also refuted by history. Many portraits of Muhammad have been drawn by Muslim artists, often commissioned by Muslim rulers. There is no space here to provide an exhaustive list, but these are some of the most famous ...

The truth is that Islam has always had a sense of humor and has never called for chopping heads as the answer to satirists. Muhammad himself pardoned a famous Meccan poet who had lampooned him for more than a decade.


Blogger Tom Grey said...

THANKS for noting that the 12, or at least the "most offensive" of them, was published in Egypt in October 2005.

I'm adding this to my blog!

MSM -- toadies for terrorists.

I hope Christians boycott NBC and Will & Grace -- and target big advertisers of NBC, too.

2/08/2006 02:44:00 PM  
Blogger wretchardthecat said...

I'm not sure "toadies" is the word for the media outlets who jumped on without looking too closely. Just people who've been sold a Pakistani Rolex and worn it to a jeweler's ball. It's embarassing more than anything else.

2/08/2006 02:47:00 PM  
Blogger Kat said...

On that last note of the prophet pardoning a poet, he also did his own version of Henry II: will no one rid me of this woman? and had a poetess killed in her bed. The assassin only being so kind as to move her sleeping child from her arms before driving the sword home and cutting off her head.

Thus, it is the continued confusion, abrogation, the schizophrenia of Islam which is actually a good thing because it shows that, like Christianity, Islam is not monolithic.

The point of this whole thing was to get the fire burning in the ME, not necessarily to declare war on the west. We are just a rally point. Islamists can do nothing without the greater Ummah to support them and it hasn't yet moved to be the great supporter they are hoping for.

For me, the messages of "kill the unbelievers that insult Islam" on the posters was a message to liberal or fence sitting Muslims, not necessarily to us.

2/08/2006 02:52:00 PM  
Blogger enscout said...

Well done as usual.

Most in the west had no desire to view the Danish cartoons until, after the Islamic uproar, we wanted to see what all the excitement was about.

You've captured the essence well. I thought all along that the iconaclasm issue of first century Christianity had become confused and corrupted by Islamic "leaders" as is so often the case.

After viewing the pictures for ourselves it was evident that the whole affair was just, as you discribe, a ruse.

The divide between the rational minds in the west and Islam has been increased as is alos the case between the rational right and the irrational left.

2/08/2006 03:26:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

In response to the Danish cartoon riots, the Boston Globe editorialized that “As with the current consensus against publishing racist or violence-inciting material, newspapers ought to refrain from publishing offensive caricatures of Mohammed in the name of the ultimate Enlightenment value: tolerance.”

The popular blogging law professor Eugene Volokh promptly went back through various prominent blasphemies against Christianity over the last few years and discovered—what a surprise!—that the Globe had somehow never managed to summon the least condemnation of the blasphemers in the name of that ultimate Enlightenment value, tolerance.

That’s not to say the Globe—which is really just a stand-in for an entire American mind-set—didn’t feel the need for tolerance back when Andres Serrano was pissing on Christ and the Brooklyn Museum was touting the Virgin Mary done in feces. But it always ran in the other direction: Those offended must learn they live in an enlightened world where they are required to swallow their hurt in the name of tolerating those with whom they disagree.

First Things

Are Mohammedans Non Normies?

2/08/2006 03:28:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Taheri may be a good guy. He may even be correct on his canonical Islam scholarship, but who cares? A crocodile is ravaging the village children and there is no comfort or safety in the scholar's assurance of its gentle nature.

There is too much Islamic barbarism in too many places to take Taheri and the other apologists seriously. Perhaps they play a different game. God knows that Western politicians and media will swallow whole any hopeful message from an "Islamic author." The jihadis know it too and take full advantage of this shortsightedness.

I'm not buying any of it. The facts on the ground deliver a far different message.

2/08/2006 03:29:00 PM  
Blogger wretchardthecat said...


The refusal to cover the cartoons and to show them made is possible for the Danish imams to substitute their own offensive images. Where a man's face is unknown he may be impersonated. Here was this invisible object which you could only learn about at second-hand. Those who were inclined to imagined the worst, when the real cartoons were pretty inoffensive. What's worse is that some journalists apparently didn't even look at the cartoons themselves and repeated hearsay.

2/08/2006 03:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Blankley is trying to part the fog in Hewitt's Brain:
His point is, I think, that our past "nuanced" approach was a failure, because the West remained asleep as the Muhammedans become ever more energized.
Both Transcript and Audio are already up at!

Great links there, also

2/08/2006 03:33:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Peter Boston 3:29 PM
That is to a large degree Blankley's argument.
Here's how I put it:
The Eggheads are Gonna Get Us Killed!

2/08/2006 03:36:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Well put: "Creeping Surrender"
...crawling under the
Dung of the Strong Camel.

2/08/2006 03:44:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Richard said...
Now... this should be a "siren" story at DrudgeReport.
How to get it to him?
Drudge Mostly Reflects the MSM
(Except when it's HIS Scoop)
This doesn't

2/08/2006 03:50:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

How about the fact that the NYT doesn't run the cartoons so they don't offend anyone? Of course, they ran Abu Ghraib on their front page as news for FIVE STRAIGHT WEEKS! What's more offensive - a few cartoons, or pictures, details and anguished questions of half-nekkid American babes dragging Muslim men around the floor on their hands and knees on a dogleash?

Same thing with CNN, et. al. - remember how the guy in the hood with the wires hooked up to him almost became CNN's logo for a few months there? Gitmo "abuse" 24/7, but a few cartoons, horrors!

Now, if they had found a way to tie Bush, Cheney and Halliburton into the cartoons, we would have been treated to full-page blow-ups of each cartoon along with a lengthy discourse of every aspect of its offensiveness.

2/08/2006 04:00:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Steyn OT, and yet it's not:
" Whatever their merits, these jokes aren’t “homophobic”.
They’re not “afraid” of gayness, they just think it’s a hoot.
If I were Camille Paglia, I’d argue that the very lameness of the gags is in a sense subverting their intent, transforming them into an ironic comment on the lumpen insecurity of hetero-defensive male culture.

But, as I’m not, I’ll just say that, a few years ago, the idea that the left could make homosexuality as plonkingly earnest and solemn as feminism would have seemed incredible.
If Cole Porter came back today, he’d be straight.

For the culture to exempt certain groups from being the butt of the joke is one of the cruelest things you can do to anyone.
If I were gay, I’d get Sgt Turner’s lawyer and sue over it.

2/08/2006 04:03:00 PM  
Blogger wretchardthecat said...


"The Eggheads are gonna get us killed!"

I used to be a big fan of monster movies where people are stranded on an isolated base or dinosaur infested island and the team peacenik disables the entire team's weapons and says "you're always thinking with your muscles" or "can't you find a civilized way to do things". Then the monsters eat them one by one, the pacifist most horribly of all ...

Never thought it would happen in real life.

2/08/2006 04:07:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Just people who've been sold a Pakistani Rolex and worn it to a jeweler's ball.
It's embarassing more than anything else.
It goes beyond Embarassing,
when with one more tick,
It Explodes.

2/08/2006 04:09:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Taheri's article concludes with the following sentiment, which Wretchard neglected to include:

Just as Muslims should not blame all Westerners for the poor taste of a cartoonist who wanted to be offensive, those horrified by the spectacle of rent-a-mob sackings of embassies in the name of Islam should not blame all Muslims for what is an outburst of fascist energy.

So, really -- according Taheri, not all Muslims are terrorists, and Islam *is* a Religon of Peace just like Mr. Bush told us. And just because every Muslim media source in the Middle East and around the world are drumming their drums of provocation it's all the fault of just a very few rent-a-mob fascists. (Just like 9/11 was the result of just a few rent-a-Taliban fascists and had absolutely nothing to do with Wahhabi brainwashing back in good old Saudi Arabia.)

So that we should disregard the rioter who tells us he will kill us to PROVE that Islam is a tolerant religion, as well as the banners that read "A Muslim's Faith is Above Western Values" and "Our Religion Does Not Allow Unconditional Freedom of Speech".

Personally, I think Mr. Taheri may be fibbing just a little bit, and that the Cartoon Wars have pretty much definitively proven that "All Muslims Are Terrorists".

And now whatta we gonna do about it?

2/08/2006 04:10:00 PM  
Blogger Robert said...

Since no one knows what Mohammed looks like, couldn't the radical Islamists point at any image of a man with a beard and say, "That's Mohammed! We're going to burn you down!" So then they become the arbiters of all art. Before any picture is hung, any sculpture exhibited, it has to be run by the fundies. Hey - maybe that's the plan!

2/08/2006 04:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"And now whatta we gonna do about it? "
Rewrite all Rules of Logic,
Declare Common Sense a Hate Crime,
...and Slumber On.

2/08/2006 04:18:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/08/2006 04:22:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

For anybody who cared to watch, this "show" has been playing off-broadway for 40 years in the Palestinian Theatre. The actors may have different names but they read from the same obscene script. The pride of authorship is the Muslim Brotherhood's and the caste is well paid and well received by the home town crowd.

If Islamist countries and organiztions want a place at the adult's table they are going to have to prove themselves worthy. Until that day comes the Israeli strategy is the best option: kill the worst, fence out the rest, and preempt every attempt at lethality growth. Perhaps in time Islam can be shaped to function in the current century but that day is not today.

I've been struggling with this position for four years but the facts seem inescapable. Islam is the ideological and identity glue that binds the disparate nationalities and classes together into a death cult. I simply don't care whether the enemy is called radical Islam, moderate Islam or Islam. Other than what's promoted in an occasional op-ed piece there doesn't appear to be any meaningful difference between them.

2/08/2006 04:23:00 PM  
Blogger exhelodrvr1 said...

It seems that a pretty good chunk of the Muslim populace was also taken in by this scam, not just our own media. Hard to say which is more troubling. Both have potential for causing immense trouble for the West.

2/08/2006 04:24:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/08/2006 04:29:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

""Only Nixon could go to China""
But Talk of Impeachment
Drove Him to Drink.

2/08/2006 04:36:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Images of the Profit"

2/08/2006 04:42:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

It's not just the Islamofascist Pavlovian cavemen who seem childish to us, it's our our lefty fellow Westerners.

As before, snug and smug under Daddy's invulnerable care, they scream and spit at Daddy.

But if the big bad man looks at them personally, ohhh, they don't scream and spit at him. They try to not offend the scary man, they try to be good for the mean people, lest the bad guys attack them instead of their Big Bad Dumb Dad who caused all the trouble in the first place.

Obviously, they don't have any firm values or goals, so how could they get blamed if some bad guys get mad at particular values or goals? Values, what values, children are free of such guilty treasures.

2/08/2006 04:43:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"The West's Last Chance"
The Nazis failed to take over Europe, but Militant Islam might
The West, says author Tony Blankley in this shocking new book, is down to its last chance.
Within our lifetimes, Europe could become Eurabia:
a continent overwhelmed by militant Islam that poses a greater threat to the United States than even Nazi Germany did.
In The West’s Last Chance, Blankley shows how that could happen—and what we must do to prevent it.
In The West’s Last Chance, you’ll learn:
· What really happens if Islamist terrorists acquire weapons of mass destruction—it’s worse, and more likely, than you think
· How Europe is already well on its way to being a launching pad for Islamist terrorism
· Why Europe’s plummeting birthrates could wreak huge upheavals on the Continent—and how the United States could face a similar fate
· What’s holding our government back from fighting the Islamist threat to the best of its ability
· Why the U.S. has ignored the lessons of World War II—lessons that could hold the secret to winning the War on Terror
· How liberalism degenerated from the war-winning policies of FDR to an ideology of Western suicide
Tony Blankley asks the hard questions—and gives the straight answers—that our country needs to hear.
Frightening, provocative, and instructive, The West’s Last Chance is the most important political book of the year.
It will change the way we think about—and fight—the War on Terror.
Capitol Reader

2/08/2006 05:17:00 PM  
Blogger Arthur Dent said...

Nahncee said
And now whatta we gonna do about it?

We will fight until the cartoon menace is no more.
(As the horrendous Black Beast lunged forward, escape for Arthur and his knights seemed hopeless, when suddenly, the animator suffered a fatal heart attack.

ANIMATOR: (We see Terry Gilliam sitting at his desk, falls backwards in death) Ulk!

NARRATOR: The cartoon peril was no more. (the monster disappears) The quest ).....

2/08/2006 05:24:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...


As scary as Eurabia threatens to become, remember who is standing off to their right there, off in the East. The Bear, with his back to the wall, arguably the world's greatest rocket program, plenty of nukes, and a history of winning Long Wars.

Why do you think the Bushitler monkey tried to make friends with Pooty-poot?

2/08/2006 05:41:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

How will the MSM treat future slurs against Christianity. Will they show the same sensitivity

The NYT published the image of the Madonna covered in dung TODAY on page E-8 while claiming cultural sensitivity as its reason for not publishing the Cartoons in the same edition.

Can you hate something as inanimate as a newspaper?

2/08/2006 05:42:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

A Day in the Life...
Military role in space said set to expand...

Islamic Groups Call for End to Riots... BUSH: Freedom comes with 'responsibility to be thoughtful about others'...

French Magazine Prints New Muhammad Cartoon on Cover, Plea for Free Press...


UPDATE: Danish paper won't run Holocaust cartoons...

Hillary Clinton: Republicans 'Playing the Fear Card'...

First Grader Suspended for Sexual Harassment...

CRAIGSLIST accused of publishing discriminatory ads...

2/08/2006 05:44:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"The rest is just noise."
I disagree.

2/08/2006 05:47:00 PM  
Blogger Will Rayford said...

I guess Mark Twain was correct when he said that humor was "our last line of defense." Well, since that last line has been breached we might as well go on the offensive.

2/08/2006 05:47:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ha Ha Ha

2/08/2006 05:47:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...


Agreed. It does, because it casts our enemies in such a savage light.

If they do this over cartoons, what are they gonna do with nukes?

Then again, how many people are even paying attention with NYT and CNN burying it, as if our exposure of our enemies intentions might support Bush.

2/08/2006 05:49:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony 5:41 PM
You did get to read that great RWE Post on Bush 41 and the Bear, right?
...then came
The Bullshitter in the China Shop
(I gotta stop)

2/08/2006 05:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"It Was Twenty Years Ago Today..."

2/08/2006 05:58:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Unfortunately, the Dike was Blown Up.

2/08/2006 06:08:00 PM  
Blogger Will Rayford said...

Look, months ago we played a nasty practical joke on them by giving them Michael Jackson. You would have thought that might stir them up a bit. But they didn't seem to understand our sense of humor in that one. Next time, lets see what they do with a belly-dancing sister Janice complete with Burqa malfunction. Now that will give them something to cry about. Of course we will spare their children this frightening vision. Just a thought.

2/08/2006 06:12:00 PM  
Blogger Das said...

The problem with Hewitt et al is this: WE DON'T KNOW how our local Muslims will react because we have made sure that no (potentially offending) material will ever get between them and us. When a local Seattle artist carved the likeness of the Bamiyan Buddhas into the pages of the Koran, the local Muslims never saw it because the city's pants-peeing art elites pulled it from the gallery.

Ditto our newspaper editors have pre-determined that "our Muslims" are crazed. I find it sad that our elites don't give our Muslim immigrants any benefit of the doubt for having picked up a tiny bit of the "live-and-let-live" American spirit.

Meantime, we remain unacquainted.

2/08/2006 06:17:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

" I find it sad that our elites don't give our Muslim immigrants any benefit of the doubt for having picked up a tiny bit of the "live-and-let-live" American spirit."
But easy to understand when you know they believe "Their Blacks" can't sing,
"Gotta Along w/o You Before I Met You,
Gonna Get Along w/o You Now"

2/08/2006 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...


I did not see RWE's post on the Bear, and try as I might, I'm not finding it. Where is it? You know RWE is one of my favorite posters.

I still wish we were talking about the QDR. yeh.

2/08/2006 06:25:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"I still wish we were talking about the QDR. yeh."
My Plan was to link to it when you got back, but certainly not right now!
Hope someone can point to RWE comment.
(Yes, Google Used to Search Comments!)
Anyway, maybe he'll retell the story about him sitting in on meetings back in the days when
Real Bears were landing here and vice versa for our guys, and 41's plan was for us and Russia to defend the rest of the world as a team.
...then came Bubba, and the rest is the sorry His story.

2/08/2006 06:29:00 PM  
Blogger Das said...

There is an article about the Seattle artist here (sorry I don't know how to do the link):

2/08/2006 06:37:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Sirius Sir,
That Could be done as fun for the Profit,
But Life's No Fun
When the Head's Gone Off It.

2/08/2006 06:42:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I'll repost this here, seems appropriate, somehow:
Newsweek banned over article on the Koran

It was not banned here, but Newsweak "Lost It."
"Here's" the "Article"

HTML Link to pdf file: Challenging the Koran


Search for:
challenging the koran
No matches were found

Topics Sections Authors Publication Date Don't remember
Past 7 days
Past month
Within 1 year

2/08/2006 06:52:00 PM  
Blogger Das said...

An attempt to boil down my contempt for American presslords:

Implicit in the presslords' refusal to print the cartoons is the assumption that American Muslims are poised to go crazy on them.

That was the boiled down part - here is the unboiled part:

But don't we owe our fellow citizens (Muslim or no) an opportunity to put themselves forward as regular ol' fellow citizens? Doesn't the press owe it to Muslims citizens to show that it can report a major sensitive story with tact and skill? That is without intent to offend or provoke?

2/08/2006 07:00:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Are you Sirius?
Don't Tread On Me!

2/08/2006 07:03:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Pork and the Profit's Mess

2/08/2006 07:09:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Yeah, but, they know we don't even defend when they provoke.

2/08/2006 07:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Replacements for the MSM

2/08/2006 07:23:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"I was hoping for something a bit more metaphysical"
That's what they're hoping for.
Hewitt Delivers.

2/08/2006 07:39:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Buy Worry Beads and Speak Up!

2/08/2006 07:44:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

God Shows Require More Candlepower

2/08/2006 07:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Speaking of humor:
One of the funniest things I've heard all week was a GI that guarded Saddam describing his Junk Food Addiction.
Once he discovered Doritos, he'd go through a Family Bag at one sitting!
Mass Murderer Meets Mass Marketing
(wife and I discussed that if they'd (both) known, they could have lured him out of his hidey hole with Doritos Air Drops)

2/08/2006 07:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Where is it written that most difficult consistently yields results?

2/08/2006 08:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Nuclear Tribalism.
Too Bad Perot Ran Us Aground

2/08/2006 08:12:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/08/2006 08:23:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

In a world where Propaganda is Outlawed,
for us.

2/08/2006 08:23:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

So, you guys are hoping for something metaphysical?

The best story I have come across about "Why is there War?" immediately dismisses that question. You can't handle the Truth, so let's get on with the matter at hand.

In the original version of "God is my Co-Pilot" - the big blue Lord Krishna shows up as the Chariot Driver for Prince Arjuna.

Arjuna's all uptight, his and his cousin's vast armies are arrayed against each other, and he's feeling a few butterflies, even with the Big Blue Mr. K riding there right in his chariot. What could be better than having God on your side?

Here, you can find the original book on the shelf below. You'll notice that Xenophon's 10,000 and the Gita memes were popular at the same time.

See, it's an old idea, this "God is on my side" bit. The way you can tell if God really IS on your side, if you're the one with the coolest chariots.

Still doesn't make the same dealy-o any less stressful.

If you read the Gita, you'll see where Kipling got his brass.

I'm sorry, I just can't find one line that's better than another, you'll have to find your own.

From Gilgamesh to Aesop, Archimedes, and Euclid to Sun Tzu, with the new kids Xenophon and Bhagavad Gita around 400 b.c.

2/08/2006 08:33:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/08/2006 08:36:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony, you left out Patton:

Hitler[AoE]: cool, i start with panzer tanks!
paTTon: lol more like panzy tanks

2/08/2006 08:39:00 PM  
Blogger sam said...

Making and Unmaking History with General Myers:

Retired Air Force General Richard B. Myers -- who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 2001 to 2005 -- has joined the faculty of Kansas State University as a professor of military history.

General Myers became familiar to TV viewers via his Pentagon press conferences and Congressional hearings, usually playing straight man to the irrepressible defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Myers was the nation's top military officer through the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. During that period, his chief interest in history appeared to be in re-writing it.

For example, in December, 2001, with the Afghanistan campaign apparently going well, Myers told American Forces Press Service, "It is not just bin Laden we're after. [He] has handfuls of lieutenants we really want to go after.

The following winter, during the buildup to the Iraq invasion, Myers responded to concerns over expected civilian casualties by providing this undeniable but less-than-enlightening observation about the nature of war: "People are going to die."

Historians will have the task of sorting through the many and varied rationales that were used to justify the rush to war in Iraq. It will be interesting to see how Professor Myers deals with the question.

Myers, more than most other officials, has repeatedly stressed that the war in Iraq will be long and bloody and difficult. Looking at historical precedents, he has warned that insurgencies typically last from 7 to 12 years.

General Myers

2/08/2006 08:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

...Meanwhile, his wet behind the ears Barbie Niece has been made head of Immigration Enforcement.

2/08/2006 08:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"to justify the rush to war in Iraq"

2/08/2006 08:43:00 PM  
Blogger Pierre said...

Wretchard just to make sure I am not misunderstanding you. You are not saying that the Cartoons were first published in Egypt correct? Also it is worth noting that the demonstrations started in Denmark with the original publishing of the pictures back in October. And the publishing of the pictures was indeed done to prove a point that needs to be proved. That Freedom of the Press is paramount in an open free society. Amir Taheri didn't get that in his article. He believed the images were deliberately insulting. To quote him: Just as Muslims should not blame all Westerners for the poor taste of a cartoonist who wanted to be offensive, those horrified by the spectacle of rent-a-mob sackings of embassies in the name of Islam should not blame all Muslims for what is an outburst of fascist energy.

Thats an interesting perspective for a person who once said that Islam and Democracy are incompatible. For what is Democracy without freedom of expression and freedom of the press. And what is the worth of Freedom of the Press if it is not the Freedom to ridicule? Let the market decide if a paper should be punished for publishing junk...not mobs.


2/08/2006 09:08:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/08/2006 09:19:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...


You're right. Patton got butterflies, but he was used to them, he even liked them.

What do you expect, he was only human. He remembered getting them in his former lifetimes.

2/08/2006 09:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...


The West believes that human beings are free to insult other people. And if we didn't believe that, we would not have what is called democracy.
Hence, you do not have any Islamic democracy.
There are, I think, sixty or so countries that have Islamic Muslim majorities, according to Freedom House. Only one is a democracy. Excuse me, only one is rated free. That's the way they rate them. It's Mali, as it happens.

I have nothing to say about Islam. I have a lot to say about the state of Muslim civilization today.
Irshad Manji, a lesbian Muslim in Canada, writes nothing mocking about Islam, and travels everywhere on Earth with a personal bodyguard, because of the death threats from Muslims.

You don't need cartoons to be targeted for death.

(radioblogger has transcript and audio)

2/08/2006 09:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Patton was a Butterfly in a prior incarnation?
If so, I'm sure he got a lot of them.

2/08/2006 09:28:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/08/2006 09:31:00 PM  
Blogger sam said...

American suspected of aiding insurgents:

An American citizen who was captured in Iraq and is being held for trial there is a close associate of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's, was harboring foreign terrorists in Baghdad and was plotting kidnappings, according to documents filed in federal court by the Justice Department.

A 24-year-old Canadian whose father was a friend of Osama bin Laden's was indicted in Boston on Wednesday on charges that he provided ammunition and explosives for attacks on U.S. troops in Afghanistan, federal prosecutors said.

American Aiding

2/08/2006 10:56:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ophra's Book of the month, followed by a lifetime appointment to the Editorial Board of the NYTimes.

2/08/2006 11:13:00 PM  
Blogger Will said...

THe wonderful Danes

See Independently Speaking article

"Look at the 6th chart in this link from the IMF. Denmark is the most generous nation in terms of aid relative to their size ….. in the world. You won’t see any oil rich muslim countries at the top of this list.

Or go visit Transparency International’s web site and look at their corruption perceptions index. Denmark is perceived as the 4th LEAST corrupt country in the world. Iran is 88th, the Saudi’s 70th.

These Danish are pretty wonderful people on average." .....

2/08/2006 11:56:00 PM  
Blogger Free West said...

Adolph H. Mohammed wants to play Let's Make a Prediction...

A-Year 1939: Ein Volk! Ein Reich! Ein Fuhrer!

B-YEAR ????: ?????


2/09/2006 12:00:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Bill Bennet is looking shorter term:
The young Iranian girls (under 18) that are going to be hung for defending themselves against rape.
(first they came for the gays, etc)
But that, of course, is poetic license:
They've been coming for a variety of very strange reasons for a very long time.

2/09/2006 05:01:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

We also take this opportunity to remind the world that the insults levelled at Islam and the Muslims have only transpired due to the absence of the Islamic Caliphate today. Indeed the Muslims are fast approaching the day when the corrupt and impotent agents of the West within the Muslims world will be swept aside to make way for the return of the mighty Caliphate. On this day, the world will witness the true meaning of justice and mercy.

Kill the worst. Fence the rest. Preempt any attempt to grow lethality.

2/09/2006 05:10:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Religion is What Religion Does"
Bill Bennet
...but of course, it's been "Hijacked"
Har de har:
that's where the poor flyboys got the hijacking idea to start with - it's not their fault!

2/09/2006 05:15:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Kill the Rapees.
"Hanging the Rapee Women"
(F... the Sabines)

2/09/2006 05:22:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

More proof of the UTTER Bankruptcy of the American "Feminist" Movement.

2/09/2006 05:24:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Fear, power, violence."
Wow, that's a New One.
That's Not Fair!

2/09/2006 05:27:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Neither will the political class."
The Conservatives will remind us to be Compassionate.
Tolerate Barbarism, it's the Compassionate thing to do.

2/09/2006 05:30:00 AM  
Blogger Deuce ☂ said...

Lets not be too tough on the press and not forget It was George Bush, with his post-911 White House Ramadan party, who pronounced Islam, a peaceful religion hijacked by radicals. Let's be clear. If we are to bring reason to the forefront , we better start with Truth. There is no Episcopalian or Lutheran or Calvinist terror problem. Hassidic Jews and Baptists are not murdering innocents on commuter trains to further Bible studies. The Amish are not strapping on body bombs. There is an Islamic problem. A big one. Forget the polite equivalency argument. Islam has to be given incentives and penalties to deal with Islamic terrorism.

2/09/2006 05:35:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

That is the Israeli strategy and has been for 50+ years. It's probably the only grand strategy that can be implemented and remain entirely consistent with Judeo-Christian values. The major downside is that it's generational and based upon a belief in the underlying goodness of man - that with enough time even the most pernicious identity groups will come around.

The USA has added in a democratization feature but other than that Israel 1.0 is probably what we're looking at for the next upteenth years.

2/09/2006 05:39:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Yeah, but we insert and withdraw feeding tubes "roughly" at Gitmo.
If that ain't torture, what is?
When will OUR Barbarism Stop?

2/09/2006 05:41:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Iran to hang teenage girl attacked by rapists

2/09/2006 06:07:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

White House Catches Up:
Rice: Iran, Syria stoke Muslim cartoon anger

2/09/2006 06:13:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

At Mecca Meeting, Cartoon Outrage Crystallized
By HASSAN M. FATTAHA meeting of leaders of the world's 57 Muslim nations in December became the turning point for opposition to the cartoons.
Bush Urges Nations to End Violence

2/09/2006 06:20:00 AM  
Blogger Ash said...

wretchard wrote at 3:10

"What's worse is that some journalists apparently didn't even look at the cartoons themselves and repeated hearsay."

but you wrote in the main post:

"And now it turns out that these cartoons have been circulated in the Muslim world, in Egyptian newspapers to be precise, as far back as October 2005. "

What is your basis for the claim that it goes back to "Egyptian newspapers to be precise, as far back as October 2005. "?

Your basis appears to be a single source blog scan (easy to create a fake). In other words you are simply repeating hearsay. I have no knowledge that Sandmonkey's scan is a fake but all I've seen so far is this one single source for the story. Is there any other confirmation that that pape actually printed those cartoons? Sandmonkey just happened to have the 5 month old paper lying about? Maybe....

2/09/2006 06:52:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

Christianity went through their dark ages in Europe. The religious leaders had cozied up to the political powers of the time & became corrupted.

Eventually Christianity, with the help of a scriptural foundation, a bloody political process and political leaders with a Judeao-Christian worldview, got it right.

Compare this history with Islam & you will find their religion perpetually entwined with world politics, power and the type of domination Christianity manages to purge from itself.

2/09/2006 07:29:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Are you sure it was not the other way around?
That the world of Western politics was finally able to disengage itself from the infighting within Christianity.

2/09/2006 07:45:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

It started to seem that this way of thinking was an insult to us," he said. "It is fine to say, 'This is our freedom, this is our way of thinking.' But we began to believe that their freedom was something that hurts us."

This quote from the NYT article Doug referenced is the money line. "...their freedom was something that hurts us."

The article is worth reading because it sets a context for the mayhem behind the cartoon affair.

I see the salient facts as:

-The creme de la creme of the Muslim world attended that December conference. In other words, this is as mainstream Islam as it gets.

-A unanimous decision was taken to respond even at the highest government level to the cartoons.

-There appears to be a total lack of conceptual understanding that the cartoons were published by a private enterprise and that the Danish government neither owned nor controlled the publisher. This disregard for the concept of a free press persists throughout the period from the time of the December conference to today.

There you have it. An identity group that functions at about the same level of cultural sophistication as an adolescent street gang. They probably shouldn't be allowed to have matches without adult supervision.

2/09/2006 08:26:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

opotho & d-r:

Granted those who claim Christian beliefs struggle constantly with the lure of power and domination. It is man's struggle.

But if you look at the essence of Christ's message, it compels us to disengage from the power structure of this world. ("My kingdom is not of this world"). That doesnt mean we Christians are perfect, we are a fallen creature - see Genesis 3. The human condition has not changed.

The koran, OTOH compels its followers to make war - literally - with non-adherants. Not quite the same message.

2/09/2006 08:30:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

I should go on to say, as I have stated before; whereas the history of Christianity is pocked with Church sanctioned involvement with the politcal power of a particular time, it is largely the way of peaceful co-existance.

Islam, OTOH is not, was not nor, barring some disengagement of selct koranic verses, will ever be peaceful movement.

2/09/2006 08:37:00 AM  
Blogger Free West said...

Adolph H. Mohammed wants to make it all clear - Let's predict the next Fascist Horror by Islamists:

A-Year 1939: Ein Volk! Ein Reich! Ein Fuhrer!



2/09/2006 08:37:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Sandmonkey just happened to have the 5 month old paper lying about? Maybe..."
I wonder if libraries have been discovered yet over there?
(Course the Chimp would read that as "Liberties") I guess Bush IS just like them.
Seen one leader, seen them all, same as with religions.
Kum bay yah.

2/09/2006 08:45:00 AM  
Blogger sbw said...

As a newspaper publisher, it is my opinion that the cartoon images do not materially add to the story. One should not take the absence of the images in print to mean an unwillingness to do so.

According to the logic that has been proposed by the outraged, the newspaper should publish pictures in poor taste simply because they were in poor taste. Harking back to Richard Nixon, it turned out we did publish his explitives deleted, but it would have been no less proper just to describe them.

That's not defering to one subset or another. And deference should be used as an excuse.

2/09/2006 08:46:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

CNN is doing a pre-emptive thing there:
Bill Bennet is going to hold them to task tonite, I believe.
Don't understand you thing about keeping the piggy pictures quiet at all.

2/09/2006 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Simply because your Industry is characterised by a double standard on the pictures it prints for months (abu panties, piss christ, etc) and those it won't print at all.

2/09/2006 08:53:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

8:49 your point

2/09/2006 09:03:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Bennet's point is ""Religion is What Religion Does""
regardless of the theological debates, and one would be hard-pressed to draw an equivalence between the religions AS PRACTICED TODAY.

2/09/2006 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

That is prepostuous, sbw.

The lack of offensiveness, in the original Danish cartoons, which "sparked" this Mohammedan outrage is of paramount importance to the reader.

That is the real story. That the entire ME can erupt in rage because of work that would be considered both appropriiate and tame in any US publication.

That there is, according to Ms Rice, an international political component to the "outrage" also makes the cartoons themselves important.

That those tame images ignite a firestorm, on Iranian command, that is the story.

The percieved "insult" is so much Ayatollah, crapola.

2/09/2006 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger Bonnie said...

To demand that we label these cartoons "offensive" is offensive to me.

In order to say they are offensive, we must adopt a religious belief of Islam, that images of Mohamed are blasphemous.

This is the same as me telling all of you that since I don't eat meat on Fridays during Lent, none of you should eat meat either. Your religious beliefs don't matter; only mine, and if you don't take on my beliefs then you are insulting me.

Ridiculous. These cartoons are not offensive. Hugh Hewitt is wrong and so is everyone who calls them offensive who is not a Muslim.

2/09/2006 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Maybe SBW jests?

2/09/2006 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

opotho 9:10 AM,
Maybe Bennet will turn the whole damn CNN Empire Around!
Rush should go to work for them.

2/09/2006 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...


I disagree that a news story with images as the subject can be told without making the actual images available, either directly or by reference.

It is the images themselves that are the cause of the murder and mayhem. Shouldn't the readers have the opportunity to judge for themselves if the images could possibly justify the reaction?

2/09/2006 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger exhelodrvr1 said...

I disagree that the cartoons shouldn't be labeled "offensive". Just like I think that a lot of Ted Rall's cartoons are offensive, and that comments Howard Dean makes are offensive. The question is whether something that is "offensive" to Islam should be treated differently than something that is "offensive" to any other group.

2/09/2006 09:28:00 AM  
Blogger Ash said...

Doug said...

"Sandmonkey just happened to have the 5 month old paper lying about? Maybe..."
I wonder if libraries have been discovered yet over there?

You would think that it would be rather easy to verify this claim, yet I've yet to see any verification. Have you?

2/09/2006 09:35:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

:Your rationalizing of Christianity's proclivity to grabbing after political power is strained to my ears."

You were offended? Have you never read the New Testament?

2/09/2006 09:37:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

In that well-practiced tradition, SBW has gone black.
As practiced today "Journalism" is a Black Art.

2/09/2006 09:49:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...


Agreed. We all fall short. Admittadly Christianity gives us goals to which we can aspire but never reach.

I hope you see my point, however, making an overarching comparison of the teachings of Christ vs. the teachings of Mohammed.

Stupid is as stupid does. But we, like arrows and bullets, tend to travel in the direction we are pointed.

2/09/2006 09:55:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

After checking out your website, I see I missjudged you as just another unthinking liberal publisher, sorry.
If I had a small paper like yours, I probably would not print the pictures either.
My main motivation would be fear for my family.

2/09/2006 10:00:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

equating the use of explative deleted on a cuss word, which is well known and somewhat standard, to an unseen image, described as "offensive" is not reporting, it is a misreporting of the cause, for fear of further effect.

Those that do not print the cartoons should admit they quivver in fear of actual retaliation to their honest reportage, showing an image. While mispreporting US actions in regards Koran flushings are honest errors.

2/09/2006 10:01:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

At the dawn of a new century, a newly elected U.S. president was forced to confront an escalating series of unprovoked attacks on Americans by Muslim terrorists sworn to carry out jihad against all Western powers.
As timely and familiar as these events may seem, they occurred more than two centuries ago.
The president was Thomas Jefferson, and the terrorists were the Barbary pirates.
Victory in Tripoli

2/09/2006 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

If the West were engaged in some short encounter, with the Mohammedans, a path of moderation could be advised.
Self censor for a while, a year maybe two, for the greater good.

But when Mr Cheney, the Vice President whom some call "Prime Minister", announces that the "War against Mohammedan Fascists that do not respect Elections" will continue for at least a DECADE, maybe TWO.

That is to much to ask, to keep readers in the dark, about the nature of the "Enemy" is obscene.

If sbw needs improved Civil Defense in his community, they should hire better Police.
There is, most likely, Federal Grant money available.

But I am sorry, sbw, the moral high ground has already been taken, in Europe, where they publish despite fear of retribution.

Like Thomas Paine & Ben Franklin,
before there was a First Admendment,
when a man could hang.

2/09/2006 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger Bonnie said...

Opotho, the difference between finding cartoons offensive and finding demonstrations offensive is that one insists on another adopting your religious beliefs. The other is an understanding that free speech ends at the end of another's nose.

Of course, I might add modestly, we are morally superior to the barbaric, ignorant, foul creatures who burn little girls alive, behead helpless civilians, and hang girls for the crime of defending themselves against rape.

This is as easy as a Lord of the Rings movie: Over here, Galadriel in white, singing in the trees. Over there, green-skinned cannibal Orcs. Good, Bad. Easy.

2/09/2006 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

>sbw said...
>According to ...the outraged,
>the newspaper should publish
>pictures in poor taste simply
>because they were in poor taste.

Rubbish. The 'poor taste' label is false, and only plausible when talking to people who haven't seen the things. The cartoons published in Denmark are entirely conventional. Half of them illustrate a 'frightened artist' theme, where the artist asks 'what is the silliest scribble that will get me killed'?

2/09/2006 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

doug & opotho:
Your pragmetism doesn't hold water. Is the NYT in any less a threat of being destroyed by terrorists that sbw's small circulation paper?

Their destruction is their choice. They didn't cause the predicament they are in - any more than any of us. But if they sell out their principle now, engage in the pragmatic choice that someone else can pay for being honest and carrying the message, they've begun building their own coffins as news organs.

2/09/2006 10:27:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

< -i- > < /-i- >

2/09/2006 10:29:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ask and you will have already received.

2/09/2006 10:30:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Remember the old days:
You opted out when it took 30min to post!

2/09/2006 10:31:00 AM  
Blogger sbw said...

Pardon for my not getting back earlier. Newsprint is expensive for small newspapers. Not enough advertising to shoulder the cost. We have many people to serve with other news. The images weren't central to the argument.

But we jumped out early and strong editorially to stand up for the underlying principle in this all: Sometimes, the way to show respect is to tell someone something they don't want to hear. That's because people are fallible. They sometimes think they are correct when they are mistaken... and having an accurate and useful mental map of reality is the key to planning a better future.

The underlying problem is that this point, which seems obvious to some of us, doesn't seem to be taught in schools. Interestingly, the strength of democracy is not that majority rules, but codification of the idea that any individual can discover that there may be a better way of doing things, and have the opportunity to convince others.

2/09/2006 10:56:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...


Pan-Islamic Salafism is the glue that binds the Muslim Brotherhood to the Iranian mullahs to the Indonesian rejectionists and the millions of individuals under the influence and control of Muslim governments and organizations in between.

Comparing this pernicious ideology and its manifestations to centuries old European examples is somewhere between silly and absurd although the more you write the more I lean towards the absurd. If you want to defend Salafism do it honestly and within the context of the current century.

2/09/2006 11:22:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

What do you call minimizing Salafism by comparing it to centuries old events attributed to Christians? After all, we survived Cromwell with no apparent ill effect so if Salafsim is no worse then what's the problem?

2/09/2006 11:39:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

OK. I get it now. The IRA are terrorists and they're Christian so that automatically forecloses any discussion of Islamic terrorism because everything is the same and nothing is different and all cultures are equal.

2/09/2006 11:57:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

I have given you no reason to assume that that is true, and it is not true.

Really? What does this mean? Oh, it must be the comparison you don't like. When its our Book that's used to justify violence that's better than when its there's. You'll have to forgive me for not recalling anybody using the Bible to justify violence but I get the intent of the equivalency.

2/09/2006 12:04:00 PM  
Blogger enscout said...


Sorry, but you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth on this moral relativism thing. First you accuse me of being too narrow in my scope of history but then you keep holding up Oliver Cromwell as the standard by which you measure Christianity's past.

I would have, at least expected you to refer to pedophile Catholic Priests as your rationale for Christ hate, but Oliver Cromwell???... That's a first.

If you're going to make a point you need to be consistent and stop using double standards.

2/09/2006 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger enscout said...

Oldest left-wingnut ploy in the book. Resort to name-calling.

Let's keep this an honest arguement.

2/09/2006 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger exhelodrvr1 said...

You seem to be ignoring the crux of the matter. The main problem is not that members of a movement use their religion to justify violence. The main problem is that a very significant percentage of the leaders of that religion support the violent actions of those members.

2/09/2006 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/09/2006 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Name calling is the second oldest trick. The oldest is attempting to frame the conversation with an off-topic equivalency. The Left doesn't have a Plan because they can't stay focused on the same topic for more than a few sentences.

Great comment about the Islamist's strategic error in attacking the Western press. Of course you have to balance that effect with the NYT who yesterday published the image of the Madonna covered in dung on one page while swearing off publishing the cartoons on sensitivity grounds on another.

2/09/2006 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

"The press will give the Muslim world the message: We are aware of the consequences of exercising the right of free expression," he told the newspaper. "We can and we are ready to self-regulate that right."
EU mulls media code

That ray of hope of Europe actually standing up for Western values was but a glimmer. They ran out of the bunker just long enough to get their helmets and baby bottles.

2/09/2006 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger sbw said...

sirius: "I'd argue the images ARE the argument"

Gee. Do we get points for providing the URL? Nah. Probably gets us yelled at by both sides. [grin]

2/09/2006 01:28:00 PM  
Blogger enscout said...


Please stay on topic. I could give a spit whether or not the Bible provides justification for an Apostolic Church.

I thought we were analyzing the motives of a seamingly large group of miscreants who happen to be cuddled up to a certain religion. A group that has been given a pass by many on the left in the west because said lefties value their vocal chords more than their freedom.

The arguement, if I'm not mistaken, is whether said miscreants are following 1) The religious views of their "prophet", whom they obvioulsy hold in high esteem. 2) The views of their contemporary religious leaders who are calling for the deaths of all who stand in their way (whatever that is).

If you are arguing that by some moral equivency mumbo jumbo that there also exists a call to Christians to act up in a similar manner.. well.. I just think you may be from another planet. Or maybe you can point these people out to the rest of us.

2/09/2006 01:36:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/09/2006 02:01:00 PM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Wow. That Wapo editorial may just as well have been written by Hizbullah. The crime is the publishing of the cartoons and the explode-a-dope murder and mayhem merely a "controversy." This is unfortunate. The weapons of the Islamofacist War are words as well as bullets and the editorial boards of the Wapo and NYT, at the very least, are firmly in the enemy's camp and drawing down happily on you and me.

2/09/2006 02:09:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/09/2006 03:08:00 PM  
Blogger enscout said...


With apologies to Catholics who read this, (actually I was one in a former life) I think a huge problem for them historically has been their propensity to deviate from scripture and push church doctrine down the throats of their flock.

I don't know why certain events happen when they do, but when Luther tacked his 95 Thesis to the door of the Cathedral in Wittenburg, good things came of it. Granted there are some wingnuts in Ireland that are trying to kill each other over differences, both ancient and modern. But without his challenge of the church's doctrine it's hard to say where we would be today.

I think churches today adhere more to scripture than they would have otherwise and I think that's a good thing.

Actually his influence, along with the influence of St Thomas Aquinas, I beleive vaulteed Europe out of it's dark ages and into the age of enlightenment.

2/09/2006 03:08:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Sorry for late reply, electricity went out!
Your argument about Small SBW v NYTimes appears sound, but I just thought I'd back off when I found he has a small paper in NY where you cannot even defend yourself and family.
I'd probably do it in a fit of spite regardless!
But now, writing this, I don't think a small local paper deserves the same condemnation as the Times because of the audience they serve and the service they supposedly provide.
After hearing Hewitt again, just now though, I think we should all hold the Barbarians accountable at every opportunity just to make up for people like him who come up with fancy reasons not to!

2/09/2006 03:44:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

According to Hewitt, 1 B.... Clinton appointed Judge took it upon herself to rewrite the whole NSA rules requirements with the same effect as re-erecting the famous Gorelick Wall! (AFTER 9-11))
These judges are powermad monsters that are going to get us killed.
Should have nothing to do with National Security/Powers of the POTUS
Kolar Kotelly... In the Washington Post, will check.
As Hewitt says, she's another Judge treating the War like it's not.

2/09/2006 03:53:00 PM  
Blogger enscout said...


"In our own culture I find that its usually a Protestant bias that supposes we can transcend our basic prejudices. But that's a spiritual-utopian dream, an impossibility if we're made of our prejudices from the ground up."

My evangelical friends would call that "born agian". I don't think it is so much a spiritual-utopian dream as it is a very personal hope to become transformed from the old man (the Adam man, the fallen man) to the new man (Christlike).

You may be correct that we may be kidding ourselves, but I have adopted that pursuit as my life's challenge.

2/09/2006 03:58:00 PM  
Blogger enscout said...


I didn't think the power ever went out in Hawaii.

I also empathize with swb's predicament. But we're all in the same situation in one degree or another. Where do we decide to make our stand?

If the juges don't get us cooked quickly, we'll cook slowly due to our own pragmetism.

2/09/2006 04:04:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I'm thinking of ways to become more proactive.
The Government sure won't do it by itself.
(Should just tell the Judges to take a hike and provoke a showdown)

2/09/2006 04:23:00 PM  
Blogger geoffgo said...


I can sympathize with your situation and position, only on one condition...that you inform your readership that the reason you won't print the cartoons is fear of Muslim reprisals.

Might as well be upfront, and let your readers make of it what they will.

2/09/2006 05:19:00 PM  
Blogger sonia said...

I think you are totally wrong, trish. Moslem Meltdown, as you call it, will be as bad for America as for Europe and the Middle East. Unless of course, we find a way to run our cars on water or hydrogene. So unless people like these will replace the likes of Saddam everywhere, we are going to melt along with the Muslims. Especially since the Crusader spirit of our great ancestors is long gone and replaced by Carter-like defeatism and treason.

2/09/2006 05:20:00 PM  
Blogger KEvron said...

"last word on the cartoon crisis"

apparently not....


2/09/2006 05:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Rumor has it she's really a bald accountant!

2/09/2006 06:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hewitt has been coming up with every idea he can think of to rationalze dhimmitude:
Today in memoralizing a fallen Marine, he used that!
(The old, if you make them mad they might cut your head off if captured "argument" comes to mind)

Also, since they kill people around the world when we "make" them angry, he thinks we should weigh everything we do with that in mind!
...I've decided to crawl up in a fetal position in my bed and breath slowly and hope nobody minds.
Gave me the idea that if we CONSTANTLY offend and "humiliate" them, the WOT will be over because they will go into terminal riot mode with no time for terrorism against the USA.

2/09/2006 06:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Evidently Hewitt doesn't, since he thinks our Cartoon Capers put them at greater risk!
Sometimes I'm begining to wonder if 9-11 really DID happen after all.
Then along come Republicans wanting more senatorial oversight of NSA, and Bush Admin going along!
Wo is Us!

2/09/2006 07:39:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I'm studying up on that tonight just to make sure.
We must not offend, what might they do next?

2/09/2006 07:42:00 PM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Where to start?

"Offensive" is in the mind of the perceiver, hence (X or Y or Z) being "offensive" is not something I can control. "Good morning, Sir..." (WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT OFFENSIVE REMARK?)

Like 'feelings', their locus of control may be open to influence by me, but YOUR FEELINGS are YOURS. Period. Trying to make ME responsible for YOUR feelings disempowers YOU, and defies logic: We call your feelings "YOUR" feelings for a reason.
opotho, enscout, for the sake of dialogue in the investigation of reality, posit for a moment that Jesus of Nazareth was FAULTLESS, informed of the Holy Spirit, and spoke unerringly that His Holy and Truthtelling words could be recorded later for humankind's guidance, okay?

That would mean that Jesus MEANT for His promises to come true in the same year; mean that Jesus told the Truth about 'One like unto the Son of Man' coming at the time the Gospel was first taken to every nation (Matt 24:14); at the time the 'times of the gentiles' were ended with the signing and enactment of the Edict of Toleration ending gentile control of the Holy Land and Jewish repatriation thereof (Luke 21:24); at the time the 'Abomination of Desolation' prophecy's 2,300 years came to an end, counting from the Second Edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild the Temple at Jerusalem, issued 457BC (Matt 24:15)

Just pretend for a moment that Jesus knew He'd be accurate, correct and truthful before the Lord God Almighty, even though all three of Jesus' prophecies CAN BE SEEN TO HAVE COME TRUE in one calendar year, 1844.

Giving Jesus the benefit of the doubt after He gets 3 out of 3 promises CORRECT will lead us to accept that the One, Like Unto the Son of Man, Who CAME May 23, 1844 was the One Jesus WANTS us to accept as Holy Intermediary between us and God!

'False prophets'? Sure, name ONE other human who claimed to be the messenger from God in 1844.

The absence of any others does NOT 'prove' that the One Who came IS the Messenger of God, but when we investigate Him the way we investigate Jesus or Moses, He bears remarkable similarities to all previous Messengers!

And by accepting Him, I no longer engage in the 'damnable heresy' of 'scoffing and denying our Lord Who redeems us' has returned! (II Peter2:1)

Frankly, the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy is less important to me than His Teachings, and the Teachings and life of the Lord of Hosts, for Whom He paved the way...

2/09/2006 10:48:00 PM  
Blogger sbw said...

geoffgo: that you inform your readership that the reason you won't print the cartoons is fear of Muslim reprisals.

Actually, I am so ticked at what's happening in Sweden that rather than just link to the cartoons, I'll probably put them up on our newspaper website and offer the Sweds the opportunity to link to them. Civilization is impossible without the freedom to say what other people don't want to hear.

2/10/2006 08:30:00 AM  
Blogger sbw said...

Desert Rat, et al.

This week Borders bookstore declined to carry a magazine containing the Danish Mohammed cartoons. This is dangerous. Accordingly, our newspaper had revisited the issue and has published some of the ostensibly offending cartoons along with some others and a strong editorial explaining why.

I thought you might care to read it. See: Courage to stand up to thugs. or visit for the April 6, 2006, editorial of the same name.

4/06/2006 09:13:00 AM  

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