Sunday, February 05, 2006

Unintended consequences

The cartoon crisis shifted course ever so slightly as the White House held Syria responsible for the burning of the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus. The Washington Post quoted presidential press secretary Scott McClellan as he read a statement from Crawford:

"We will hold Syria responsible for such violent demonstrations since they do not take place in that country without government knowledge and support ... The government of Syria's failure to provide protection to diplomatic premises, in the face of warnings that violence was planned, is inexcusable."

The embassy attacks were ostensibly the outcome of Muslim outrage at the depiction of Mohammed by a Danish newspaper, a representation considered blasphemous. But the direction of the crisis has been nudged from the outset by groups hoping to turn its emotionally explosive content to their purposes. The Guardian describes how radical Imams took four month-old embers and fanned them into flames.

What should have remained a parochial row was to blow up into an international incident, largely because of the perceived obdurate response of Denmark's centre-right prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen. On October 19 ambassadors from Islamic countries, including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran, demanded a meeting. They wanted the paper prosecuted. The PM gave them the brush-off, arguing that his government could not interfere with the right to free speech.

At this point a group of ultra-conservative Danish imams decided to take matters into their own hands, setting off on an ambitious tour of Saudi Arabia and Egypt with a dossier containing the inflammatory cartoons.

According to Jyllands-Posten, the imams from the organisation Islamisk Trossamfund took three other mysteriously unsourced drawings as well, showing Muhammad with the face of a pig; a dog sodomising a praying Muslim; and Muhammad as a paedophile. "This was pure disinformation. We never published them," Lund complained. But the campaign worked. Outwardly the row appeared to be calming down. But in Muslim cyber-chatrooms, on blogs, and across the internet, outrage was building fast.

But fire once kindled can take on a life of its own. The demands for apologies and the deluge of threats against Denmark created the opportunity for a pushback which some were quick to seize. Guardian account continues.

Outraged by what they regarded as Denmark's "caving in", several rightwing European newspapers decided it was time to demonstrate solidarity. On Wednesday, France Soir republished the caricatures under the defiant headline: "Yes, We Have the Right to Caricature God" - a gesture that led to the sacking of the paper's editor the next day. Separately, Germany's Die Welt slapped the turban-bomb Muhammad cartoon on its front page.

On February 1 the flames had spread to the Internet. The cartoon issue, which did not register on the Technorati blog search index on January 31, became within 24 hours topics 1, 2, 3. As of this writing it threatening to solidly block out the top five.

 

But embassy burnings in Syria provided the opportunity for the White House to re-secularize what was rapidly becoming a religious and cultural conflict. The White House seized the chance to point out these arsons were not religious outpourings but deliberate acts of a State -- the Assad regime to be exact -- a State with bitter enemies throughout the Islamic world, thereby harnessing the charged climate of public opinion to advance its strategic agenda. It's reasonable to surmise that the first victim of the frisson that ran through Europe has already been Iran. Opposition within the IAEA to referring Teheran to the Security Council over its uranium enrichment program suddenly collapsed -- almost unnoticed -- as the furor over the cartoons rose to a screeching pitch.

February 5, 2006 ... The United Nations' atomic energy watchdog voted in Vienna yesterday to report Iran to the UN Security Council, setting the stage for a possible international showdown with Tehran over its nuclear program. ... The landmark 27-to-3 decision by the International Atomic Energy Agency capped months of wrangling by the body's 35-member board and paved the way for possible economic or political sanctions against Iran by the powerful 15-member Security Council.

One of the things which may contributed to this lopsided vote was the sudden European realization, on account of the cartoon crisis, that things were serious, that the hour was late. And for that we may ultimately have to thank Islamisk Trossamfund.

156 Comments:

Blogger Marcus Aurelius said...

Poor Syria.

They get the blame for every bad thing that happens in the Middle East. Sarcasm finished.

I don't think the fact that Syria allowed those riots to happen is really going to chagne the dynamic of the situation.

The mask is definitely off the Radical Islamists. They don't just want to be left alone in their sandy abode, they want to control the whole world.

2/05/2006 05:20:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

it was my understanding that the addition :

The measure had the backing of all five permanent Security Council members and two Muslim countries, Egypt and Yemen, that had been reluctant to oppose Iran but agreed to go along after the EU and the U.S. accepted compromise language making it a goal to create a nuclear-free Middle East.

So is this really the hand slapping of iran that we had hoped for?

2/05/2006 05:22:00 AM  
Blogger UnemployedCapitalist said...

The idea that Isreal would give up their nucs is laughable at best. If you were surrounded by this lot, would you?

2/05/2006 05:31:00 AM  
Blogger Marcus Aurelius said...

I never recall Israel officially declaring it had nuclear weapons.

It is widely held that has the bomb but the Israeli Government has never come out and said so.

The Iranian govt is making quite a bit of official noise about its intentions. They deny they desire to build a weapon but who believes they want nukes for energy?

2/05/2006 05:42:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

the only reason israel developed these weapons was in RESPONSE to the arab world's threat to destroy it with it's 125 million population (today they have 300 million), nasser once said, if it required 5 million arabs to die to destroy israel, fine egypt can birth MORE...

Unlike Egypt & Iraq, which HAD WMD and used them, if israel has weapons they have not used them once in the 30 years they have been accused of having them....

2/05/2006 05:43:00 AM  
Blogger EddieP said...

Pork

Yeah, the Israelis just took it in the neck from the EU and USA.

2/05/2006 05:45:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

ot?

Thirteen Al-Qaeda members convicted in the 2000 bombing of a US destroyer and the 2002 attack on a French oil tanker off Yemen were among 23 prisoners who escaped from a high-security

or is it the typical arab world ploy while everyone is looking here, doors for terrorists are unlocking there?

2/05/2006 05:47:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

The fact that Russia and China decided to go along with sending a report to the security council has little to do with the freedom of press issue. They couldn't care less about such western sentiments.

It will be interesting to see how their views become manifest when the security council convenes to deal with the issue.

2/05/2006 05:50:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

opps

Thirteen Al-Qaeda members convicted in the 2000 bombing of a US destroyer and the 2002 attack on a French oil tanker off Yemen were among 23 prisoners who escaped from a high-security prison in the Yemeni capital Sanaa, a state-run website reported yesterday.

2/05/2006 05:51:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

How could these riots expose Islamofascism anymore than videotaped beheadings? I suppose the huge numbers of rioters and the apparent triviality of their cause makes it different. But have we not read their fatwas, have we not heard their medieval "laws", are we not witness to decades of the murder of innocents in Israel and around the world? Did we not see innocents jumping from the WTC after a suicidal attack upon civilians?

Who are these riots expected to awaken? Liberals? Hah! They know their enemy, he lives in the White House. Maybe if they could impeach him, they would lift their gaze to the reality of Islamofascism, but not until then. They have to concentrate on the real threat.

2/05/2006 06:02:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Tony,

LizK has this posted in the other thread:

Why Denmark? Why now? Why are the demonstrations so well organized? Where did all the Danish flags appear from in the Palestinian Authority areas?

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/

notes:

"when the UN Security Council gets round to considering what form of sanctions to impose on Iran, guess to whom chairmanship of the Council will have passed. You’ve got it... plucky little Denmark.

Suddenly, the pieces fall into shape. The rumpus suddenly escalated, complete with fabricated offensive cartoons, to so enflame Muslim opinion that Denmark could be intimidated directly through a threatened Muslim boycott of its goods, or indirectly by the EU fearful of a wider boycott, into voting in favour of Iran."

2/05/2006 06:32:00 AM  
Blogger Starling David Hunter said...

The mullahs have made several "clerical errors" in the handling of this crisis. Among the more interesting is one made last year: they agreed to help fellow OPEC member Venezuela build a nuclear "energy" program.

2/05/2006 06:34:00 AM  
Blogger voletti said...

Just as the Danes are being pilloried for "letting" one of their newspapers commit blashphemy, maybe arab govts throughout the ME can be similarly held responsible for the vile antisemitism spewing outta their mosque pulpits, eh?
For instance, what were to happen if the EU demanded that TV footage shown on Al Jazeera among other arab channels having commentators and cartoonists routinely depicting Israelis as child-eating cannibals, to begin mildly...

2/05/2006 06:41:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/05/2006 06:46:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

I have a hell of a lot more respect for my government today, after the statement holding Syria responsible for the embassy attacks, than I did the day before, after the mealy-mouthed State Department response to the cartoon issue.

In the context of Wretchard's analysis, it all makes a kind of reassuring sense, and for the moment I am willing to be reassured.

I hope we continue to put the heat on those who would seek to manipulate the outrage of Muslims to their own ends. The world needs to hold not only states responsible, but also religious leaders who would take an obscure and parochial grievance and, by conducting a sordid disinformation campaign, turn it into an international crisis.

2/05/2006 06:48:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Thanks Mika,

So, this is just another "Koran in the toilet" meme to stir up the fanatic Muslim majority, their version of "People Power." Eh?

2/05/2006 06:56:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Tony,

I'm curious what incentives those demonstrating their "People Power" in the streets of London and elsewhere receive for their participation.

Iranian agent: "I'm sorry Ahmud, your brother back home is seriously ill. To save his life, we might need to amputate both his legs. But as you know, god is merciful. If you defend his name, perhaps we might just need to amputate the hands."

2/05/2006 07:39:00 AM  
Blogger nowhere girl said...

"Something rotten in the state of Denmark" indeed.

Back before the current Iraq war, someone (possibly Wretchard, or another equally astute blogger) pointed out that it really didn't matter whether Iraq had WMD or not. Everyone believed they did, and Iraq conducted its foreign policy as if they had them. In the post 9/11 world, it was no longer tolerable to allow Iraq to behave as if it had WMD and that it was willing to use them.

The same is certainly true of Iran. Even with recent speculation that Iran's timing of its escalation could (possibly) point to a stalled or failed nuclear weapons program, or even (taking some of the mullahs at their word) that they only want nuclear power for peaceful purposes, it no longer matters. Iran's conduct of its foreign policy, based on blackmail and terrorism, is no longer tolerable. Especially given Iran's ties to Syria and to Hamas.

The actual state of Iran's weapons development program is no longer relevant.

Changing subject abruptly, I've been browsing a number of blogs from the Middle East this morning, primarily blogs that comment strongly on Middle East affairs. Not one of them says anything about the cartoons or the embassy burnings. This one from a Syrian expatriot is as close as anything comes to commentary. I'd particularly expect the Lebanese bloggers to have something to say. So far, silence. Interresting, and eerie.

2/05/2006 07:39:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

If one can argue that the Baathists are a fascist regime, perhaps it is little wonder that they have allowed the unimpeded attacks against the Dutch and Norwegian embassies. Syrian forces managed to block the rioters when they were marching onto the French embassy. There Vichy collaborators will be protected as long as they stay out of the way.

When it comes to fomenting violence, the Imams are peerless. I am sure that the religious powers that be were delighted to come to the aid of the ‘injured’ co-religionists in Northern Europe. Muslims everywhere answer to their religious masters, rulers who, unlike the Roman Catholic Church, are not Western in their culture, nor are they centralized like the Pope. The aggrieved Muslim can shop around the Islamic pantheon of ideas until they find echelon of dark angels that will breath sufficient fire to ignite the flames of indignation, the Saudis must compete in willingness to use violence or suffer irrelevance to mainstream religious beliefs. But for a religion founded on the principle of ‘might makes right’ there is no paucity of players.

The crude ‘3’ pictures could have been as easily traced off of a bathroom wall. One would not have to search high and low to find something as childish, yet offensive. But, in a world where fate is still in the hands of the actors of history, the ’law of attraction’ would suggest that the offending 3 pictures were to be interpreted as from the Danish people themselves, not because logic and evidence would deem them so, but because it is the collective will of the Muslim people that it be so. It is the violent nature of the Muslim religion that requires conflict. It is the holy affirmation of fate that the Muslims would defend the honor of their god, they would die in their holy Jihad to avenge gods blood lust. A culture that cannot abide the slightest insult is quick to manufacture one. And they will control the world because there ‘embeds’ have the right to ‘immigrate’ to the centers of the Western powers whom they abhor. It is in these seats of power that they will metastasize and be at the beck and call of their terror masters, as their terror masters are at their beck and call of their followers abroad.

Islam who purports to be descended from Abraham to the Mohammad, saw no error in Europe’s ridicule of the Judeo-Christian religion, ostensibly the foundation of there own religious beliefs, will not suffer the portrayal of their later day saint. For continuity may have been necessary for the establishment of Islamic supremacy, but now that it has established itself as the seat of Gods presence here on earth, historical foundations need not stand.

It is a supreme irony that the reaction to depicting Mohammad with a turban resembling a bomb is that those who are offended by such histrionics would respond themselves, with… a bomb.

2/05/2006 07:40:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

One interesting offshoot of the cartoonathon is how the NYT and the Left have crawled into a hole since the kerfuffle began. The same people that went ballistic over the violation of rights from NSA surveiilance of explode-a-dopes, apoplectic with sensitivity over the phoney Koran flushing, and intoxicated with the prospects of blowback from the Abu Grahb torture stories are all hiding from the cartoons.

For the Left actual issues are far less important than controlling the conversation about those issues. Publishing the cartoons would be an insensitive breach of otherculturalism, regardless of their news value, and criticizing the Muslim staged defense of religious values would put them on the wrong side of the mirror.

I love it. A few cartoons have brought out the crazies and shut up the crazies at the same time.

2/05/2006 07:56:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

Something stinks in ‘Toon-Town’.
it is the Minions of Satan.

Climb a mountain of lies,
because it is there.

The Dutch have put their finger in it.

Bring the Mole-hill to Mohammad.

2/05/2006 08:00:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

It is a supreme irony that the reaction to depicting Mohammad with a turban resembling a bomb is that those who are offended by such histrionics would respond themselves, with… a bomb.

annoy mouse, yes, and ironic that one has freedom to march with a placard saying, "Freedom Go To Hell" in the attempt to suppress freedom of expression elsewhere.

2/05/2006 08:14:00 AM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Tony asks:"How could these riots expose Islamofascism anymore than videotaped beheadings?"

Because, Tony, the BEHEADINGS have been kept from the public eye by media collaborators and other 'sensitive' apologists.

Your question goes to the CRUX of this matter: the Islamazoids could control the bloody-gross violence, but they did not and still do not understand the power of Free Speech!

THAT couldn't be hidden, like the beheadings-to-the-chants-of-allaowakbar-allaoakbar!

2/05/2006 08:23:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Multi-culturism is dead. Everyone gets it now. Islam and the Secular West are incompatible. Forget the democratization nonsense and recognize what European ancestors learned centuries ago. Disengage, isolate and when necessary disarm your enemy. When Islam reforms itself, and there is no other way, we can try again.

2/05/2006 08:27:00 AM  
Blogger doolz said...

Some further implications:

There's all this fuss about the Jyllands-Posten, right? Actual cartoons of Muhammad printed on newsprint (way back in last September). Since then, a French and a German paper have also printed the cartoons, even a Jordanian paper printed three of them (although the editor was fired in two of those cases and the Jordanian editor had to recant).

I'd be interested to see the circulation figures for the Jyllands-Posten, I'm guessing it's not more than a few hundred thousand. Because of the uproar, millions more people have seen the cartoons, not in the newspaper, but on the Internet.

When something has become this big of an event on the Internet, it takes on a life of its own. Censorship, meet photoshop. There is no way to silence the millions of bloggers, forum posters and so forth. There's no way that even if Ayatollahs took over the IANA and IETF that they could delete every image of the cartoons. If there hadn't been such theatrical (often nonsensical) protests, it would not have come to this, they would have languished in obscurity.

And, because of the way the Internet's predecessor, the ARPAnet was designed, it should be able to withstand nuclear war. That's right, it was designed to be decentralized and therefore robust. If you took out the root DNS servers, another set of servers can be substituted in. The cartoons have been granted immortality by their most fervid opponents.

2/05/2006 08:32:00 AM  
Blogger opotho said...

Did anyone just watch the end of Chris Matthews?

In the closing remarks from the panel, Andrew Sullivan tacked on among his other concerns the dispute about the cartoons. In the entire program these were the first words - a dozen in all - devoted to the matter.

The final comment went to Matthews who cut Sullivan off by adding something like, 'yes, that's a little worrying'. Then to commercial.

2/05/2006 08:36:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

ahh, 2164, just where do we isolate them and how?

2/05/2006 08:40:00 AM  
Blogger opotho said...

Maybe the Euros will be willing to take up Samuel Huntington finally?

But W's post today goes to my argument yesterday that there's no great, overarching, long-term strategy among the jihadists. Every time I hear some speculation as to a long-term plan to restore the Caliphate it sounds completely incongruous with the cultural norms and traditional lack of centralization within.

To me, Eban's observation about the Palestinians is sort of a touchstone of dysfunction about the Islamic political world in general: 'that they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.'

Still, this is going to take a long time ...

2/05/2006 08:46:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Karridine,

But the WTC was not kept from the public eye. I was just up there a few weeks ago, it's still a big hole in Manhattan, surrounded by a cyclone fence with memorials to the dead, surrounded by thousands of somber people every day.

2/05/2006 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger Ari Tai said...

Anyone know if NATO is meeting today (on Sunday)? Given we had a legal right and should have declared war and deposed Khomeini in response to the original Tehran attack on our embassy (as the ex-soviets said they would have done in the same situation), and Denmark and Norway are both NATO partners in good standing, if either of them invoke their treaty rights I wager the President is free to choose to go to war with Syria, with (or without a full NATO meeting or our own Congressional approval) just a letter from either countries' responsible institution.

An interesting twist. I wonder if dealing with Syria is seen as a way to get Iran to back off - i.e. if Iran is told it's their choice, either change course or lose Syria. (Where's my popcorn? :-)

2/05/2006 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Desert Rat, a modest start is denial of immigration, restriction of travel, and the deportation of radical imams. A concerted effort to put restrictions with trade, travel and commerce with countries that deny equal rights for woman in a way that the West coerced change on South Africa. Stop nation building. Put a priority on stability. Increase taxes on imported oil. Stop sending US forces on patrols in Iraq. Allow Islam to sort out their own differences and quit pretending there is a moral equivalency between Islam and the Judeo-Christian-NeoSecular world

2/05/2006 08:57:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

2164

So, under your plan we boycott the KSA and all other ME oil producers.
Add a tax to gasoline and heating oil, etc. This would put gas at well over $6.00 per gallon, retail.

In the Urban US this may be acceptable, but in the Heartland...
We'd have a new Government, with different priorities at the next Election.

We have tried the option of benign neglect in Africa, it has not gone well. They are not moving to moderation, there.

Isolation, by US, is not the answer.

2/05/2006 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Ari,

Iran is using Syria (with Syrian consent) as a distraction. I also think that's what the Hariri assassination was all about. Going to Syria before taking care of Iran would be a strategic mistake, in my opinion. Iran would gain the time it needs to acquire their nukes. They would then pass these along to Syria (as per their defense treaty), and Syria would retaliate using those weapons against Israel.

2/05/2006 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

mika

We do have the assets to perform a take down in Damascus, where we do not in Iran.

No need to rebuild Syria, just destroy it's Military capacity.

Could be done in a month, less.

No Occupation, no Reconstruction, no schools opened.

The US needs both a win and an example, not a new "ally"

2/05/2006 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

True. But d'Rat, do you have the political capital to do both Syria and then Iran?

2/05/2006 09:23:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Nothing succeeds like success.

2/05/2006 09:26:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

It is unlikely, though.

In a World where Israel give Hamas $55 million, there are no battle lines, are there?

2/05/2006 09:29:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

D'rat,
i do not think the US is perceived as being particularly
successful in the two existing conflicts in either Iraq or to a lesser degree in Afghanistan. It needs to have a hard look at where those conflicts are going and how it impacts a new assertiveness in Iran. Deposing any regime in Syria would only create a new state of Hezbollah in Syria and Lebanon. Please, the US military already looks weak to the jihadists. The US Air Force should not be used to recruit for Hezbollah.

2/05/2006 09:33:00 AM  
Blogger Das said...

Tony wrote:
"How could these riots expose Islamofascism anymore than videotaped beheadings?"

It's hard to say what would turn the left - a dirty bomb? A vaporized city? Up here in Seattle I'm in a good position to see how blindly entrenched the Bush-hating left is. Jihad Islam is barely on their radar.

peterboston: ditto, I agree. I love CNN's and NPR's declarations of respect for Muslim sensibilities. This is like a log shredder (a "chipper" in logger's parlance) saying it has nothing but respect for all Alder trees. For these anihilating entities to profess reverence or to make motions towards "the sacred" is howlingly funny. It confirms for me that the left is hoping to forestall Jihad fury by seeing all aspects of Islam as "culture" rather than "religion" since culture to the left is sacred and immutable. It is a kooky and convoluted (and probably unconscious) hope of hoping to be eaten last.

2/05/2006 09:33:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

d r, I like your suggestion. Destroy the regime and let the people pick up the pieces. It would be a good object lesson to those who think we are only "occupying" Iraq. It would also serve warning to Iran.

As to whether we have the political capital to "do" both Syria and Iran, well, we don't know and neither do the Iranian mullahs. I think a quick and ruthless takedown of Assad's government would certainly get us all kinds of attention--some welcome, some not. But what else is an out-of-control unilaterel hegemony supposed to do?

2/05/2006 09:40:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Ok. So you bomb Syrian military instillations. Then what? Bashar will still be there. In the mean time, you've used up lots of time and energy, and what have you really got to show for it? I think it's better to focus on Iran and figure out to best suffocate that regime.

2/05/2006 09:41:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

Maybe after we're done we could tell the Lebanese: go occupy Syria.

Tit for tat, or something.

2/05/2006 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

2164

The Mohammedans have had no problem recruiting, without offensive actions by US.

In Pakistan, where the US does not operate, massed demonstrations are held. Hundreds of thousands of armed men live outside the "law".

In Chechnya, there are no US troops.
In the Philipines, Indonesia, Thailand, India, Bangladesh, et al. there is no US presence to aggrivate the Mohammedans.

Certainly none in Denmark or France.

You have not answered the questions about the effect of your Proposal on the US economy, or the Depression that will accompany it.

Come on, admit it, it is time to give War a chance. We've tried Peace, it hasn't worked out, well.

2/05/2006 09:44:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

sirius_sir,

Heheh. Too bad the Lebanese can't even occupy Lebanon.

2/05/2006 09:47:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

..focus on Iran and figure out ^how to best suffocate that regime.

2/05/2006 09:50:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

mika
The President of Syria would not survive, in power.

The Syrian Military, faced with continued destruction, would see to that.

Even if the Syrian Government survived, which I doubt, they would be impotent, compared to today.

We have no "good" options in Iran. As General Scales reports, we are not properly prepared for that battle. We will not be for a couple of years, if we started prepping today, which we are not doing.

Anyway, if the Israelis are comfortable giving Hamas $55 million, there is no need for continued worry about the Mohammedan threat, is there?

2/05/2006 09:53:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

After Syria – Nuke the Moon!

2/05/2006 09:54:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

"Above all else, the devil cannot stand to be mocked."

C. S. Lewis

2/05/2006 09:55:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

tony... now that's what I'm talking about. Heh.

2/05/2006 10:02:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

d'Rat,

Israel largely does what her friends ask her to do.

2/05/2006 10:04:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Well then, Israel's friends have decided that there is no Mohammedan threat, certainly no War, as I've said so many times.

Reality proves more powerful than Rhetoric, again.

2/05/2006 10:06:00 AM  
Blogger Utopia Parkway said...

The Arab-European League has anounced that Starting from today AEL will systematically publish daring cartoons produced by our own AEL cartoonist "Nabucho" and breaking many taboos in Europe.. There is a single anti-semitic cartoon at the site.

I guess this is par for the course. The Arabs are mad at Denmark and Germany so they attack the Jews.

2/05/2006 10:06:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

No, utopia, it is not an attack, it is a cartoon.

There is a substantial difference, unless you're a Mohammedan.

2/05/2006 10:15:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Sorry to waste your time D'rat and mine. I assumed this was a serious discussion. Best of luck in your wars.

2/05/2006 10:18:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Rueters reported that Mr Bush said we would defend Israel, while the Israelis are supporting a Terrorist Group, Hamas.

What ever happened to to "Support a terrorist, be treated as a Terrorist"?

The Bush Doctrine has been defanged.

2/05/2006 10:22:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

2164
It is.
You proposed Isolating the US from Oil producers and causing an economic Depression in the US, that is serious.

You claimed that US actions caused increased recruitment amongst the Terrorists, which if true, would be serious.

When I point out where the Terrorists operate, sans US interference, you tell me I am not serious.

There is a chicken and egg proposition in the Terrorist motivations vis a vie US. I'll grant that.

But you still have not answered the question about the foreseen "unitended consequences" of your proposal.

So, which of us is not "serious"

2/05/2006 10:31:00 AM  
Blogger Eggplant said...

Mika said...

"..focus on Iran and figure out ^how to best suffocate that regime."

Their nuclear weapon's facilities are deep underground and beyond reach. The mullahs are dispersed and/or in bunkers (decapitation is not an option). It would be counter-productive to directly attack their population. Iran is too big and populated to occupy and hold. By the process of elimination it looks like attacking economic assets is the best answer.

Conclusion: Take out their petroleum storage and distribution capability. If they can't sell crude oil then their economy will implode.

Obvious downside: They'll blockade the Straits of Hormuz. Consequently our own economy will take a hit. However we can last longer than them if they're not selling oil.

2/05/2006 10:32:00 AM  
Blogger Eleanor © said...

Who are the victims here? Using kitman tactics, once more Muslims have turned the blame back on the victims: Europeans that are only trying to preserve their own cultural identity against the onslaught of predatory Islam.

Where is Muslim rage against the burning of embassies, the calls for murder and beheadings? Isn't this assualt, battery, and premeditated murder?

2/05/2006 10:35:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

The Bush Doctrine has been defanged.

No, I think it is just losing its baby-teeth.

I linked to this earlier, didn't elicit any comments. Now Jack Kelly takes notice:

John Loftus, a former Justice Department prosecutor, said a civilian contractor who has been among those examining the Mukhabarat files has found audiotapes of meetings in Saddam's office where WMD was discussed. The contractor, a former military intelligence analyst, will make the tapes public Feb. 17 at a conference sponsored by Intelligence Summit, a private group that Mr. Loftus heads.

Mr. Loftus wouldn't disclose the identity of the contractor in advance of the conference, but said his tapes have been verified by the National Security Agency. "This isn't a smoking gun. It's a smoking cannon," he said.

Those who have bet their political futures that Saddam had no WMD may be starting to sweat.


This is going to be an interesting year.

2/05/2006 10:35:00 AM  
Blogger CBDenver said...

A Danish newspaper prints cartoons depicting Mohammed in a negative light and Muslims urge the boycott of all Danish goods. An American television network creates a sitcom depicting Christians in a negative light and Christians urge a boycott of the show and its sponsors. Is there any difference between the two incidents?

I think there are significant differences. The Christians launched a targeted protest against those whom they felt directly responsible for the offensive program. They did not urge a boycott of the entire television network, the entire entertainment industry, or the United States as a whole. On the other hand, the Muslims have urged a boycott against the entire country of Denmark to protest the actions of one newspaper that chose to print cartoons they considered offensive.

The reaction of the Muslims is far out of proportion to the original act. I believe this disproportionate response is the essence of terrorism. The goal is to get the Danes to turn on each other. By punishing the innocent who had nothing to do with the cartoons along with the guilty, the great mass of people is taught a lesson. The lesson is that they should rigorously suppress the speech and actions of their fellow citizens. Similarly, the publishers of the cartoons learn a lesson as well - they should impose self-censorship lest their actions cause harm to innocent third parties.

Recently I watched a movie about a Nazi concentration camp. Some prisoners successfully escaped. The guards rounded up the remaining prisoners and randomly shot 30 or so. The lesson? (1) Don't try to escape or others will be killed as punishment for your act. (2) Don't let others try to escape or you may pay for their actions with your life. How different is this from the Muslim response to punish all of Denmark for the actions of a few?

2/05/2006 10:38:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

If we have a conflict with Syria we’ll get Iran for the price of admission. We have invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, for good reason as everyone in the Middle East surely knows, but the next ME country that we invade it will become apparent that we are toppling dominos. We will be at war with the Middle East in general. If we want to pick a fight with Syria, the easy way would be to pick it with Iran. I see no good reason to forestall that fight much longer. If a group of miscreants surrounds me, I will not knock the teeth out of the fast talking little man, I will deck his hulking friend as quickly and brutally as I can. The rest I will deal with on my own sweet time.

2/05/2006 10:40:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Eggplant writes:

"Obvious downside: They'll blockade the Straits of Hormuz. Consequently our own economy will take a hit. However we can last longer than them if they're not selling oil."

But can't some preventive measures be taken in this regard?

1/ Clear all ships within 300 km of the area.
2/ Clear all Iranian and other hostile military assets within 300 km of the area.
3/ Knock out all power supplies in Iran, and to and from Iran.
4/ Resume regularly scheduled programing.

2/05/2006 10:56:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Unless, mika, like that old Mossad guy thinks, they already have a nuclear capacity.

Set one off in the Straits, the radioactive water vapor would drift and rain down, where?

The Straits would be shut down for, I really couldn't guess, but a while I'm sure.

2/05/2006 11:03:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

2164th said...

D'rat,
i do not think the US is perceived as being particularly
successful in the two existing conflicts in either Iraq or to a lesser degree in Afghanistan. It needs to have a hard look at where those conflicts are going and how it impacts a new assertiveness in Iran. Deposing any regime in Syria would only create a new state of Hezbollah in Syria and Lebanon. Please, the US military already looks weak to the jihadists. The US Air Force should not be used to recruit for Hezbollah.
///////////////
Any revolution in Syria would not by Shia. (Hezbulla is shia)It would be Sunni. The revolution in Syria would be ostensibly be to bring democracy to Syria like it has come to Iraq and (maybe) Lebanon. But in reality it would be to restore the Sunni Majority in Syria to power just as the Shia majority has been empowered in Iraq. And this would come with the support of the Jordanians the gulf arabs and everybody else in the arab world who are not too keen for a shia dominated crescent from Iran to lebanon.

Syria dominated by the sunni majority would cut off hezbolla.

2/05/2006 11:06:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

d'Rat,

I think that's Russian disinformation. See Debka. Plus the "vapor" would drift back onto Iran. Weather traffic always travels East.

2/05/2006 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The only major city east of the Straits is Karachi, more than 1600km away. Turn about's fair play, there.

I had read of some wierd Regional weather patterns, but that was in regard to the Iranian reactors and where that fallout could land. There was some concern in Kuwait, as I recall.

2/05/2006 11:20:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

charles,
In the depths of a self imposed US economic downturn, 2164 would have new concerns.
The Religious and ethnic make up of little countries, far away, would be of little interest.
Unemployement pushing 20% would be the new cause for alarm.

2/05/2006 11:25:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

d'Rat,

NOAA satellites pic of burning oil fields in Iraq:

2/05/2006 11:47:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Speaking of fallout, where did it all go? Follow these links to see how many times nukes have been lit off in the atmosphere. It looks like we had the radioactive fallout problems solved by 1956, as proven in Operation Redwing.

Even so, check these lists, these are huge tests. The Soviets biggest was 54 Megatons. Where'd all that fallout go? How come we ain't all dead? Why isn't every visitor to Las Vegas turned into a walking X-Ray?

Soviet Atmospheric Tests

American Atmospheric Tests

2/05/2006 11:47:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

oops:

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s1114.htm

2/05/2006 11:50:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

I'm with 'Rat:
A Slow steady Aerial Attrition of Syria with occaisional targeting of Leadership.
See what happens.
We already know many things that would happen in Iran and they are not pretty.
Syria being Iran's agent is reason enough and puts Iran on notice that we are serious.
Won't happen though since we all know this whole thing will be expeditiously taken care of in the Hall of Nations/Nuts.
---
Nuclear Dispute Arouses Patriotism Among Iranians

The nuclear case has become a matter of national pride, but it also has tapped into broader sense of victimization and a glorification of martyrdom that many people here describe as a part of their national and religious identities.

Muhammad Jaavad Molkoti was seated behind a cash register in a small appliance store here when he compared this struggle, against the west, to a struggle faced by the Prophet Muhammad in the early days of his prophecy.

2/05/2006 11:58:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

We break it, you fix it.
Powell After Reality Therapy.
(Maybe a Real Job would help)

2/05/2006 12:00:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Iran's nuclear program will not help Ali Shafiei pay his bills, or Muhammad Soheili Pour sell appliances or Yussefi Janali sell rugs, but they all said that they support Iran's right to nuclear energy and do not much care how other nations of the world react."
---
But we, the politically correct enlightened ones ONLY care about how other "nations" of the world would react.
(All the phoney proxies, that is.)
Real People react like people always have.

2/05/2006 12:05:00 PM  
Blogger lmg said...

"Disengage, isolate and when necessary disarm your enemy."

In order to "disengage" it would be necessary to unmake the omelet, forcing all those who admit to being Muslims to leave the West. The only way I can see that happening is if the West were to actually outlaw Islam - closing mosques and Islamic schools and other institutions. Make it impossible to openly practice or spread the faith, and the religious will leave. Meanwhile, roll up the welcome mat at the border.

Short of revolution or marshall law, I don't see Western governments doing any of that.

2/05/2006 12:06:00 PM  
Blogger Mike H. said...

Right now there are cartoons in the Nederlands that are yet to be noticed. We haven't even started the confrontation yet. Dutch cartoons

2/05/2006 12:09:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Syria being responsible for the deaths of many of our Soldiers is also reason enough.

2/05/2006 12:10:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

mike,
might want to save that to disk or buy his CD.
Don't know who's paying for bandwidth or providing protection.

2/05/2006 12:11:00 PM  
Blogger Eggplant said...

Mika. said...

"But can't some preventive measures be taken in this regard [blockade of the Straits of Hormuz]?"

I believe the Russians and/or the Chinese sold the Iranians a bunch of anti-ship cruise missiles. Also we found out from the Persian Gulf War that the North Koreans sold the Iranians anti-ship mines (we caught an Iranian ship fully loaded with North Korean naval mines). The Iranians would only have to sink a couple super-tankers in the Straits of Hormuz to have a signficant economic impact (make shipping insurance for the super-tankers prohibitively expensive). Of course, the U.S. Navy could respond but the Iranians would have an overwhelming home-turf advantage of being able to launch cruise missiles from their shore and/or sneak out naval mines with small ships in the middle of the night.

I think it's a safe bet that they could blockade the Straits of Hormuz. Any strategy that we construct must be based upon that assumption.

2/05/2006 12:18:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

A Date for 8 Means the Reaper Must Wait
'Rat, since the expense would be inconsequential, we might as well feed the Bastards after we bomb them.
Make Powell Proud:

" In the story that Mr. Molkoti offered, the prophet and a small band of his followers were surrounded by enemies in the desert with little to eat, and still they stood strong.

"Eight people would have to share one single date, and still they resisted,"
Mr. Molkoti said. "They did not give in, and we are inspired by them.
"

2/05/2006 12:20:00 PM  
Blogger lmg said...

"Where is Muslim rage against the burning of embassies, the calls for murder and beheadings?"

They don't rage against actions they whole-heartedly support.

2/05/2006 12:21:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Merkel likens Iran threat to Nazi era

SENATORS JOIN ATTACK
U.S. Senator Joseph Lieberman applauded Merkel and urged the world to take the Iranians seriously.

"From the writings of Hitler during the 1930s and Mein Kampf to the polemics of bin Laden in the 1990s, there is ample evidence that sometimes when people write and say that they hate you and ... they want to destroy you, in fact they mean it and will try," he said.

His Republican colleague John McCain said economic sanctions should be imposed on Iran even if that meant bypassing the United Nations. He said military action must also remain an option if Tehran does not bow to international demands to halt its nuclear activities.
Rumsfeld described Iran's Islamic leaders as extremely dangerous and said they could not be permitted to acquire the world's deadliest weapons.

"The Iranian regime is today the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism," Rumsfeld said. "The world does not want, and must work together to prevent, a nuclear Iran."
But both he and Merkel were more measured than McCain, making clear that diplomacy was the best option.

2/05/2006 12:33:00 PM  
Blogger Ray said...

Yes, we are fortunate that the Islamists keep overplaying their hands. If they didn't, we would have an unfettered Iran, a quite triangulating Europe, and an isolated US.

Perhaps people are waking up.

2/05/2006 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Any names that come to mind for any prospects that would be as serious on Defense and maybe even spending as McCain '08?
I know he offends and sometimes seems nuts but...
(Someone who beats Hillary that is)
Probably never get through the GOP primaries.

2/05/2006 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

I had a few misgivings after I wrote this post, though I think the kernel of the idea is correct -- that there's a political effort to control this stampede and head it in the "right" direction.

Looking at the papers today, the burning of the Danish Embassy in Beirut, for example, I am not so sure the White House or anyone else can really "control" where this goes.

2/05/2006 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Quite right,
The genie is out of the bottle, like toothpaste it will be hard to put back in.

While some folk may want to "accomadate" the Mohammedans and self-censor, many will not.
Look for more comics and the like in the future.

It will escalate if tne Mohammedans do not back down, and with the current state of International politics, doubt that they will.

2/05/2006 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Big John will do just find in the Primarys, doug.
The better choice is Rudy, but he would have a tougher time in the Primarys than John.

Looks more likely the Carpetbag may get to the White House as each day passes

2/05/2006 01:18:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Carpethag?
Lewinsky???

2/05/2006 01:35:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The thought of Hillary bringing back the Clinton Foreign Policy Team is Frightening in the Extreme.

2/05/2006 01:39:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

doug,
Big John did not believe that these wild horses had any rights under the Law, he sided with the Forest Service.

Fortunately the Federal Judge saw things a bit differently, he, it seems, had taken the time to read the Law.

Big John is friend to Big Government, make no mistake.

Tucson TV site

as well as

In Defense of Animals site

It is funny, my dad, now in his late 70's, was going to bid on rounding them up, for the Federals. I told him I thought the Program was outside the requirements of the Law, he said "No, the Forsest Service says they are excempt from the Law".

They are not.

So instead of rounding up the horses, we rode herd on the Federals, he testified for the Horses and the Judge appointed him the person the Federals have to negotiate with.

He hates being lied to, more than me. The wild horses will be safe, 'til we die, anyway.

2/05/2006 01:46:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony,
Google's PageRank and Google's Justice System

2/05/2006 01:51:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"He hates being lied to, more than me."
---
'Rat must have had a fearful childhood!

2/05/2006 01:54:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Hell, yeah

Learned to spin like a Clinton, for all the good it didn't do.

2/05/2006 01:57:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Doug,

For someone serious on defense, and speaking in the artistic, poetic license proper to this thread, how 'bout William Munny from "Unforgiven"?

Munny: ...I ain't like that no more...I ain't the same, Ned. Claudia - she straightened me up, cleared me of drinkin' whiskey and all. Just cause we're goin' on this killing, that don't mean I'm gonna go back to bein' the way I was. I just need the money, get a new start for them youngsters...Ned, you remember that drover I shot through the mouth and his teeth came out the back of his head?...I think about him now and again. He didn't do anything to deserve to get shot, at least nothin' I could remember when I sobered up....Yeah, no one liked me. Mountain boys all thought I was gonna shoot 'em out of pure meanness...
Ned: Well, like I said, you ain't like that no more.
Munny: That's right. I'm just a fella now. I ain't no different than anyone else no more.


He's speaking for America, getting over his war-like nature; but then, someone wakes the sleeping giant.

"Any son-of-a-bitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, I'm gonna kill his wife and all his friends and burn his damn house down. Nobody better shoot." As he rides from town, he commands further frontier justice for the prostitutes:

"You better bury Ned right. You better not cut up nor otherwise harm no whores, or I'll come back and kill every one of you sons of bitches."


Unforgiven

2/05/2006 02:02:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Thanks Doug,

So there 'tis, what I've been saying all along. Humans don't touch the sacred algorithms and calculations, just assign "importance" according to their own political values:

PageRank also considers the importance of each page that casts a vote, as votes from some pages are considered to have greater value, thus giving the linked page greater value. Important pages receive a higher PageRank and appear at the top of the search results.

Who is doing the "considering" here? Ahhh, it's almighty, omniscent, infallible Google PEOPLE.

This is a fatally flawed search mechanism, so it only makes sense it's the most popular one in the world. Do no evil, my butt!

2/05/2006 02:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony,
I guess that won't be shown in every NEA approved classroom anytime soon.
---
'Rat,
This link doesn't work, not yours, is it?
Bridle & Bit Heads & Brave Peruvian Horse Honored at April Event for Equine Rescue

2/05/2006 02:11:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

sure enough is, doug
one of thousands

2/05/2006 02:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Well, fix it!

2/05/2006 02:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony,
Gee, I thought they used the
"Importance Algorithm,"tm
you doubt that?

2/05/2006 02:18:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"Unforgiven"--Eastwood's finest work, and a movie right up there with "The Wild Bunch".

2/05/2006 02:21:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_1 said...

OK, this may be the big joke but aren't embassies territories of the sovereign country that occcupies that embassy? Aren't the torched embasssies all members of NATO? Isn't an attack on one NATO country considered an attack on all NATO countries?
So cruise missle a few Syrian cities as a counter, let it escalate and let's light this torch which is currently the "phony war".

2/05/2006 02:23:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Got a person for that, don't think we'll call him, now, about that.

Nothing all that important, anyway, is it?

The story must have been deleted, it does not seem to be around, anymore.

2/05/2006 02:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Buddy,
That one poor bloke sounds he's in worse shape than Mika's Extraction Candidates.

2/05/2006 02:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"sounds like"
(the one with the teeth extracted through the hole in back of his head)

2/05/2006 02:29:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

habu
if you check up the comments we spent some of the morning on just that topic.

Mika says forget Syria, go for Iran

Myself, doug and another hearty soul agreed we should bomb the tar out of 'em, 'til there was a Coup or something.

2164 thinks we should withdraw, from the very idea.

aristide thinks it'll be an interesting year.

As Mr Rumsfeld said, Iran is the premier Terror Sponsor in the World

As Mr Bush has said, We treat sponsors like the principles.

We don't treat terrorists to badly, now, do we.

The one that Masterminded the USS Cole attack has made his escape, dug a tunnel to a Mosque, they did.

al Sadr is still alive and kickin' supporting Iran, in Iraq.

aQ foot soldiers parade on the streets of Pakistan.

I'm up to my eyeballs in Danish Pork Products, for all the good that'll do.

2/05/2006 02:39:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"The one that Masterminded the USS Cole attack has made his escape, dug a tunnel to a Mosque, they did."
---
The Mosque is Sacrosanct,
The Cole, Expendable.

Our "Values"

2/05/2006 02:43:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

So it would seem.

Marines died, so as to not damage a Mosque.

Monte Casino is a ruin, so an extra Soldier need not die.

When a Nation is at War, it's citizen soldiers should not be killed as gestures of conciliation to the Enemy.

It caused the first tingle of doubt about the Value of this war.
Or rather the lack of it.
War, that is.

2/05/2006 02:49:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

The fricken God-forsaken oil.

2/05/2006 02:50:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

If we just took it, like some keep claiming we are, the deal would be done.

150,000 US troops could hold Eastern half of the KSA, indefinately.

There are few people, there. Most are not Saudi, are they?

Then deal with the rest as required, but mostly, leave 'em alone, miltarily.

2/05/2006 02:58:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

o/t but wrt oil--Doug, remember Robert Jensen, the UT Journo prof that aroused your ire sometime back? Foxnews interviewed him last night re Hugo Chavez--and you shoulda heard this bird--from right down the hiway 45 minutes from here--the "USA is a terrorist nation, and Hugo is the Savior of His People". This guy holds his meetings in one of Austin's strongest Presbyterian churches. Oh, I wish him publicity, lots and lots of it.

2/05/2006 03:05:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

If we don't take it, and someone else does, we're pretty much done. If say PRC ended up with that light sweet, that comes outta the ground almost ready to use, and at a lift cost of almost nothing, while we sulked in economic depression behind our borders, the relative powers of the military complexes would shift very rapidly.

USAAF was shooting Luftwaffe down with abandon in late war, when fuel restrictions were sending half-trained pilots up against our guys. And that's just a straw in the wind.

And here we have our robert Jensens, living phat and way high off the hog, in this land of pleasure, doing every single thing they can to bring ruin down on their stupid, stupid selves (and on everybody else on the planet, who wants to live free).

2/05/2006 03:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Meanwhile, our Allies busy themselves racing remote controlled Camels.

Robots race camels in Kuwait

A robotic jockey crosses the finish line Sunday at the Kuwait camel race championship.

KUWAIT (Reuters) -- Kuwait on Sunday held the first regional camel race using robots as riders after child jockeys were banned from the lucrative sport following criticism by human rights groups.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/05/kuwait.robot.reut/index.html

2/05/2006 03:17:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/05/kuwait.robot.reut/index.html

2/05/2006 03:18:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Starling Hunter--poster here--is teaching business in Dubai (see his link). maybe he can franchise us a USA concession on those robot camel jockeys!

2/05/2006 03:19:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

We made a BIG DEAL, here, about robot cars. A robot that can steer a camel, interact with a living animal, and win.
Now that is more impressive, to me, than an automated dune buggy.

That IS a real deal.
If fully automated cars are.

But, like much of the early Space Program, and almost all of the latter days of it.

To what end?

2/05/2006 03:34:00 PM  
Blogger For Freedom said...

What of the theory that islam is essentially a 1400 year old totalitarian warrior cult that masquerades as a religion? Is it conceivable that the nazis were preceded over 1400 years ago? The nazis did not invent totalitarianism. As a matter of fact the islamic pseudo-religion had many methods that preceded the nazis by a thousand years, including the use of labels on the clothing of Jews and Christians. As with all totalitarians, satire directed at them is not accepted kindly. Satire is therefore an effective weapon and one of the Achilles heels of the islamic fascists which should be exploited to the fullest.

2/05/2006 04:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

That Byron York Link I posted a day or two ago on Bush Energy Proposal said he hoped it would go to the same place as his Man on Mars Proposal - to the dustbin.

I'm not for a manned Mars program at this point, but I am for doing what we say we're going to do:

Kennedy said Man on the Moon in ten years, and they did it.

Seems like "other nations" we're so worried about take us more seriously when we do what we say we will.
How odd.

2/05/2006 04:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

for freedom,
But what if they get angry?

2/05/2006 04:15:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2/05/2006 04:19:00 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

Why did the Danish Embassy in Beirut burn today and not yesterday? Did Syria bus in some goons or did it take a bit longer to set up this Op?

Hmmmmm???

2/05/2006 04:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

rr,
The left keeps putting us to sleep, the RoP keeps waking us up.
Maybe they'll drive us nuts and we'll do something crazy.
...or maybe we'll just take our torture victimhood case to the UN.

2/05/2006 04:27:00 PM  
Blogger For Freedom said...

Doug

So they get angry - then they have to shut down the internet. Maybe they have to shut down laughter too. Not that they wouldn't try, of course. But there's another Achilles heel: their oppression of women. Another weapon against the islamic fascist cult movement is to find ways to liberate their women. How to do this i don't know. But so far that's 2 Achilles heels to use as weapons against the islamic fascists.

2/05/2006 04:30:00 PM  
Blogger Karridine said...

"Recently I watched a movie about a Nazi concentration camp. Some prisoners successfully escaped. The guards rounded up the remaining prisoners and randomly shot 30 or so. The lesson? (1) Don't try to escape or others will be killed as punishment for your act. (2) Don't let others try to escape or you may pay for their actions with your life."--CBDenver

CB, see "The Great Raid"... the Japs did it too! Terrorists use FEAR and TERROR to try to impose their view of their superiority on US...

but the US knows, accepts and TEACHES citizens that "All humans are created equal in the eyes of God and the Law"...

and the terrorists HATE that, because WE ARE MOCKING THEM in their 'superiority', and there's NOTHING they can DO!

"Above all, the Devil hates to be mocked!"

2/05/2006 04:45:00 PM  
Blogger StoutFellow said...

mike h.

Thanks for the link to the Dutch Art Show. The descendants of Rembrandt don't do anything small, do they. Ein Volk, Ein Ummah, Ein Muhammed.

As far as managing the unintended consequences goes, the MSM has done a stellar job of making sure that no-one in the US sees any images of British Muslims carrying signs reading "Exterminate those who mock Islam" etc.

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

2/05/2006 04:48:00 PM  
Blogger For Freedom said...

Intellectual and Spiritual Weapons Strategy to fight the islamic fascist scourge:

1) Work on identifying spiritual and intellectual weaknesses. Some can be identified readily. These are the Achilles heels.
2) Satire - cartoons were a brilliant start, now expand to other art media. Use internet and as many unassailable venues as possible.
3) Women's liberation - find ways to create and encourage the demand for equal rights by islamized women.
4) Publicize a critique of islamic history including critical comparisons to totalitarian thought going back 1400 years.
5) Find intellectual methods to reduce the stranglehold of the imams on their flocks.
6) Keep inventing new methods to enhance freedom of former cult members. Draw inspiration from cult deprogramming experience.

2/05/2006 04:52:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Hell, doug, I'm for treating Terrorists like, well terrorists.

The only Good Terrorist is a Dead Terrorist.

I'm all for treating States that Sponsor Terror, like Terrorists.

I heard someone, the President maybe, say something very similar.

To bad he forgot, or something.

Jr's four year enlistment will be over in a few months, he will have been in the Corps for four years. Been to Iraq once and Okinawa twice.

More than enough time to train an Iraqi Army from scratch, but we didn't have to start from scratch.

It'll soon be five years from 9-11 and the terror threat, according to the Government, is undiminished.

Time for a new Policy or a different Government.

2/05/2006 05:12:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

carridine

Since most Arabs are close to illiterate, or so I'm led to believe, perhaps you're Prophets story in comic book format.

Do the bubbles in both Farsi and Arabic editions.

When I was leaving the Army, oh so long ago, the training manuals were being redone, as comics.

Maybe they were ahead of the curve.

2/05/2006 05:22:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Let's be happy. The Quadrennial Defense Review concentrates on operating cladestinely, or unmanned, in enemey territory that isn't worth invading and occupying, and killing the bad guys therein.

They got suiciders, we got machines. That's a fair and comparatively moral match.

We're not going to let the bad guys win. I remember reading the first time that a Predator shot some bad guy with a Hellfire (for God's sake!) and you could tell the guy reporting in the NYT or WaPo had no idea he was reporting the first known action of Terminators.

I hope they unofficially re-name the first Boomer that is converted to carry 150 Cruise missiles the USS William Munny.

2/05/2006 05:26:00 PM  
Blogger lmg said...

Re: Intellectual and Spiritual Weapons Strategy to fight the islamic fascist scourge

7. Air drop 5 million copies of Playboy and they'll jerk themselves to death.

2/05/2006 05:40:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

lmg

To much intellectual fluff to Playboy, send 'em Hustlers
Then they could all be in the pink.

that may be a bit dated, but still effective, I'm sure

2/05/2006 05:41:00 PM  
Blogger For Freedom said...

Re: 8) - great idea

If the Intellectual and Spiritual strategy doesn't work ...

9)Start Cold War II

10)Make a clear list of assets to be taken out as immediate retaliation.

11) Prevent all immigration from islamic countries.

12) Put all islamics under surveillance domestically.

13) Threaten thermonuclear retaliation on all islamic states collectively.

If we are hit with another 9/11, then take off the gloves:

14) Take out Mecca, Tehran, and Damascus.

15) Go Thermonuclear.

2/05/2006 05:55:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

We made a BIG DEAL, here, about robot cars. A robot that can steer a camel, interact with a living animal, and win.

The reason the Arabs had to pay someone smart to develop their robot camel drivers is because people were noticing that they had this habit of buying/kidnapping little boys from poor families and then enslaving them to be camel-jockeys.

After the robots were introduced there were sad stories in the Arab newspapers about disenfranchised little boys who had been replaced by robots, but they didn't know where they came from and no one had kept track to be able to repatriate them with their families.

Every. Single. Time. You lift up an Arab rock and peer underneath, vile things never seen before in the history of humanity scurry out and away, seeking the cloaking darkness of stupidity, ignorance and religion once again ("It says in the Koran ...").

2/05/2006 05:58:00 PM  
Blogger Utopia Parkway said...

Rat,

It may be an attack by cartoon but anti-semitic cartoons are certainly an attack. Guns and bullets aren't the only modus operandi for attacks.

The inital publication of the anti-Mohamed cartoons by the magazine may have been only a mild attack but the more recent publications are certainly an anti-Muslim attack, or counter-attack if you like.

Now you want to attack them with Hustler. Still an attack.

BTW, here's an article from jpost on the Israeli point of view.

2/05/2006 06:08:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

I guess it is in how "attack" is defined.

Your view is understandable, and not entirely incorrect.
Actually, excepting that I was in a "War" mode of thought, your use of the word is accurate.

2/05/2006 06:18:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The Helen Keller cartoon was not to be seen.
The other cartoon, to me, represents the millions of 'other than Jews' that were killed by the NAZI. Gypsys come to mind, first.

I also have seen those cartoons that were actuallu publish by the Danes. The pig snouted Mohammed and a man at prayer being sodomozed by a dog, were not there.

Both the Danish and this AEL cartoon are well within the bounds of US sensibilities.

Pretty tame stuff, by Mr Toles's Standard at the WaPo.

That is why they are not being shown in the US. It would prove the insanity of the Mohammedans and we can't have that.

2/05/2006 06:26:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

Mohammad reads "Humanism for Dummies". Priceless, thanks for the link. Don't mess with the masters of rhetoric.

2/05/2006 06:31:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

As I have stated before, the "cartoons" highlight the power of psychological warfare and in the wrong hands could have negative effects.

If the certain bloggers and the Times (London) are correct, and this is a clever ruse designed by Ahmadinejad/Assad crew to intimidate Denmark into political submission, then the psychological weapon has fallen into the wrong hands.

"...when the UN Security Council gets round to considering what form of sanctions to impose on Iran, guess to whom chairmanship of the Council will have passed. You've got it... plucky little Denmark."

see: David Conway on Civitas

and


See: Timesonline


If this is indeed just a clever ruse then why not turn it around. More than one player can use psychological warfare.

I am sure someone could Photoshop a depiction of Ahmadinejad (or Assad) abusing the Mohammed or worse. I would guess there are a large number of ways to go at this. These images could be planted in various Arab countries to incite the masses against Ahmadinejad (or Assad).

Will, note that there is the feeling of manipulation in the current "cartoon" flap, but I would assume all of the players in the UN including Denmark and the UK (plus their respective intelligence branches) would have immediately suspected the ruse and acted to counter it. I doubt if there is much secrecy in the UN. But, stranger things have happened.

Ari Tai makes a good observation: "Anyone know if NATO is meeting today (on Sunday)? ...Denmark and Norway are both NATO partners in good standing, if either of them invoke their treaty rights I wager the President is free to choose to go to war with Syria..."

That is a good point. Denmark is a member of NATO. Why should we let some thugs push them around.

And, I agree with desert rat's assessment: "We do have the assets to perform a take down in Damascus, where we do not in Iran.

No need to rebuild Syria, just destroy it's Military capacity
."

I believe Syria has been a major supporter of Saddam and his thugs. Assad has given sanctuary to them and most likely fund a good bit of terror attacks in Iraq. He would be a top candidate for removal.

2/05/2006 06:59:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

The inital publication of the anti-Mohamed cartoons by the magazine may have been only a mild attack but the more recent publications are certainly an anti-Muslim attack, or counter-attack if you like.


Yep. I guess that would sum up what's being put out there on this blog. Designed to enrage, with a happy little touchdown dance, "Whattaya gonna do 'bout it?!?"

http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com/

While I'm seeing Mohammad's face photo-shopped on the ass of a camel, no one seems to have picked up Ledger's idea of having Assad (or Saudi Abdullah or Egypt's Mubarek ... or Pakistan's Musharref) leading said camel in the same picture.

2/05/2006 07:38:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Syria has also been a major beneficiary of Sadam's WMDs and stolen moneys. There's no reason not to think that after the collapse of the Iranian regime through sanctions, Bashar will not hand over this contraband in return for him keeping his throne.

2/05/2006 07:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I don't know where Nahncee 5:58 PM gets off blaming the
Religion of Peace for something that was clearly the fault of the United Nations:
(probably at the prodding of the USA)
---
"Sheikh Abdullah bin Saud al-Thani said the United Nations had threatened to impose sanctions which could bring camel racing to an end. "

2/05/2006 08:33:00 PM  
Blogger trangbang68 said...

Its late ,superbowl's over,Europe is in flames,just wondering:here the world is perched on the edge of thermonuclear annihilation.Wouldn't it be ironic if Hillary Clinton,our first female president pushed the red button in a fit of menopausal pique(maybe from reading tabloids of Bubba yet humiliating her highness with viagra fueled hijinks)

2/05/2006 09:19:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

She's Getting Mentally Prepared

2/05/2006 09:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"One demonstrator, among those who set the consulate building on fire, was encircled by flames and died after jumping from the third floor, a senior security official chuckled."
http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com/

2/06/2006 03:42:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

No Dhimmi
"These are our "moderate" Muslim friends. They don't belong to that "tiny group of extremists." These ones are just like you and me. They live in harmony with us--right here in our multiculutural, hippy-dippy peace bubble!"

2/06/2006 03:50:00 AM  
Blogger Marc McCall said...

A comment I have on the state departments response to the cartoons...

How far-fetched would it be to consider the possibility that the S.D. response was intended to put EU in the hot seat and as a reminder of the growing islamic cancer they have long turned a blind eye to? Or to remind them that playing the politically correct game goes both ways?

Or maybe the S.D is just showing its lack of spine? hmmm...

2/06/2006 07:03:00 AM  
Blogger A Jacksonian said...

Currently sitting in a research hostpital, but really cartoons are just the beginning. The West as a whole has much worse weapons in the way of ridicule, and the first comedian to realize that there is a responsive audience... fame and stardom will ensue.

As for Iran, I remember reading some bloggers from the region pointing out that the regime was using Chechens to keep its people in order, as it could no longer trust the police or regular army (the revolutionary guard are not included in that asessment).

Sounds like asymmetrical war to me, humor against righteous indignation. That is looking to be a target rich environment to the first few that have the wit necessary to see and deal with it.

Perhaps this will turn into the "Killing Joke" from Monty Python...

As for hardened underground sites... in this era of pinpoint weaponry, just how fast does it take to drill a hole with JDAMs? And then deliver a final penetrator? I am sure that someone out there is looking at the idea.

2/06/2006 08:08:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

...a senior security official chuckled.

How insensitive!

2/06/2006 08:12:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...



Moderate Muslims speak out against "the actions of a few" and "completely condemn all forms of vandalism and incitement to violence..."

2/06/2006 12:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"the first comedian to realize that there is a responsive audience... fame and stardom will ensue."
jacksonian,
That would be Albert Brooks, in theaters now, with
"Searching for Humor in the Muslim World,"
...but like most of his characters, for him fame, stardom and fortune will be something less than Earth Shattering.

2/06/2006 12:35:00 PM  
Blogger Buckeye In CA said...

Even The Guardian (Unbelievable, yes. But true.) has come out against the odious behaviour of the acolytes of the RoP in an editorial dated 2/6...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,,1702932,00.html

More evidence that perhaps there's hope for Euros yet.

2/06/2006 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Mika, Ski Much?
"Unintended Consequences"

The next day, Jan. 28, Luther Sartor Jr., 61, was skiing with several other members of the Four Seasons West ski club, a group of African American skiers from Southern California, when he apparently became disoriented and failed to see a wall of rock in front of him, friends and family members said.

He struck a 30-foot-high boulder straight on at full speed, said his friend Jerrold Smith, who was skiing with him.

A Los Angeles dentist and accomplished skier, Sartor "was always very athletic and really involved in adventurous-type activities,"
Deaths of 5 Skiers Stun Mammoth

2/06/2006 03:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Meet the imam behind the cartoon overreaction
Every Media Tactic they employ was taught them by the MSM.
(Here we have the old fake story becomes true through amplification and distortion.)

2/06/2006 04:35:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Doug,

Ou ch. Always thought skiing was a bit of an expensive sport. Didn't realize it's that expensive.

2/06/2006 05:32:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Two words:

Sonny

Bono

2/06/2006 06:39:00 PM  
Blogger geoffb5 said...

In the 1979 science fiction novel "Soft Targets" by Dean Ing it was proposed that terrorists could be damaged by humor and ridicule in the mass media. We may be starting on that road now.

2/06/2006 11:35:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

It's becoming clear that Danish Imam Ahmed Abdel Rahman Abu Laban fabricated some of the pictures which inflamed the Arab world. It was a good exercise in taqiya (lies).

If it is found that:

1) Danish flags were stockpile for media flag burring in the PA and other countries, and

2) That certain Danish representatives were to have control over a UN committee to discipline Iran...

The picture of a clever geopolitical ruse would fall in place.

Two photos shown: (One picture of Jacques Barrot in French Pig-Squealing Contest the other a grainy photo of the same man by Imam Ahmad Abu Ladan)

[NeanderNews]:

...They should because they are the same! No, not a satire of Mohammed nor any other sacred Islamic figure but a photo of Jacques Barrot, a pig squealing contestant at the French Pig-Squealing Championships in Trie-sur-Baise's annual festival. NeanderNews discovered this photo, taken by Bob Edme of AP , posted on an August 15, 2005 AP story seen here on MSNBC's website.

As ... others have reported Danish Imam Ahmad Abu Ladan, leader of The Islamic Society of Denmark, toured the middle east to create awareness of supposed anti-Islamic cartoons and included the above black and white photo as well as two other undocumented examples. Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the tour, explained that the three drawings had been added to "give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims."


See: Danish Imam Busted

How to turn this around?

1) The Danish authorities should hold a governmental hearing and examine the source of Imam Ahmed Abdel Rahman Abu Laban "photos." Those photos did harm to the Danes and their property abroad.

2) Determine if Abdel Rahman Abu Laban is tied to terrorists organizations. If so, either jail him or deport him.

3) All hostile members involved in the plot should be exposed and brought to justice.

2/07/2006 02:38:00 PM  
Blogger For Freedom said...

Heil Mohammed! Seig Heil! Seig Heil!
Heil Mohammed! Seig Heil! Seig Heil!

So the islamic nazis work the same way as the old nazis - Surprise!

Check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident

Heil Mohammed! Seig Heil!

2/08/2006 12:35:00 AM  

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