Saturday, May 19, 2007

Realism

Winds of Change comments on the anti-Musharraf movement and asks whether US policy towards Pakistan isn't in rigor mortis. "Almost six years after 9/11, the substantial failure of the pact with Gen Musharraf is plain for everyone to see. Osama bin Laden remains at large, the Taliban are back in Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan, the A Q Khan network is believed to be in operation and the one thing the deal was supposed to avoid---severe political instability in nuclear-armed Pakistan---is at hand."


Meanwhile, the Newspost India, quoting the New York Times, reported the United States is paying Pakistan roughly $1 billion a year for what it calls reimbursements to the country's military for conducting counter-terrorism efforts along the border with Afghanistan.

Some American military officials in the region have recommended that the money be tied to Pakistan's performance in pursuing Al Qaeda and keeping the Taliban from gaining a haven from which to attack the government of Afghanistan. American officials have been surprised by the speed at which both organisations have gained strength in the past year, the daily said.

Recent reports say Iraqis in the field are doing better than than the dysfunctional political structures in the Green Zone. Iraq highlights the difficulties, but also the advantages of having direct American access to the field. One of the most difficult tasks any foreign mission can face is working through established, but corrupt institutions of a sovereign government. Foreign advisers often use control over resources as leverage to influence counterparts to make things happen in the field. Unfortunately as the resources are released to the host government the balance of influence often gradually but inexorably shifts to the locals. Moreover the local foreign ministry can go over the local mission's head and advisers can find themselves having to implement a policy crafted by locals who have managed to out-sell them back home.

Can America work effectively through the governments of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan to fight terror? Can it work through the Palestinian Liberation Authority to achieve peace? Working through counterparts has its own set of challenges. Nothing is easy.

60 Comments:

Blogger Doug said...

30,000 Hate Spewing, Jihadi Producing Madrassas.
Scary, indeed.

5/20/2007 12:16:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

I didn't watch much of this snuff film, 1 kick was enough to convince me that pure evil is at work here.
Honor Killing In Iraq

5/20/2007 12:31:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

LINKS

trish said...
Influx of Al Qaeda, money into Pakistan is seen
U.S. officials say the terrorist network's command base is increasingly being funded by cash coming out of Iraq.
By Greg Miller Times Staff Writer
May 20, 2007

WASHINGTON — A major CIA effort launched last year to hunt down Osama bin Laden has produced no significant leads on his whereabouts, but has helped track an alarming increase in the movement of Al Qaeda operatives and money into Pakistan's tribal territories, according to senior U.S. intelligence officials familiar with the operation.

In one of the most troubling trends, U.S. officials said that Al Qaeda's command base in Pakistan is increasingly being funded by cash coming out of Iraq, where the terrorist network's operatives are raising substantial sums from donations to the anti-American insurgency as well as kidnappings of wealthy Iraqis and other criminal activity.

The influx of money has bolstered Al Qaeda's leadership ranks at a time when the core command is regrouping and reasserting influence over its far-flung network.

U.S. Pays Pakistan to Fight Terror, but Patrols Ebb

Go to Complete Coverage »

5/20/2007 02:03:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Influx of Al Qaeda, money into Pakistan is seen - Los Angeles Times
WASHINGTON
A major CIA effort launched last year to hunt down Osama bin Laden has produced no significant leads on his whereabouts, but has helped ...

5/20/2007 02:22:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

The same long war tactics that al-Qaeda have successfully used to persuade the liberals of defeat in Iraq are going to be used in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Afghanistan, unlike Iraq, is a landlocked country that is completely enclosed by the 'stans, Iran and Pakistan. And if the fighting ups in intensity, the logistical problems could be very challenging. Right across the border from Afghanistan is the nuclear-armed country of Pakistan. And on the other side is Iran. This the liberal idea of a favorable battlefield, though for what reason I can't say.

There's a good chance that political factors will force a US withdrawal from Iraq; but rather than being an economy in force, it may will lead to instability in the Middle East which will place further calls on US resources. It may actually increase the stress on the Armed Forces. Remember, despite the idea of Jack Murtha that the US can withdraw to Okinawa, the oil resource means that the US is absolutely chained to defending the Middle East.

This may have the effect of pinning US forces down in the ME and releasing enemy forces for Southwest Asia. If the Jihad ramps up in Afghanistan/Pakistan, the first year of a Democrat administration may be one of a real military crisis. Worse, any incoming Democrat will be committed to the strategy which precipitated the crisis in the first place. Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise and force the Left to come on board. But who knows?

In any case, the chickens will really come home to roost. None of the Western allies has really made the investments which will 1) reduce the force-generating capabilities of the Jihad. All the madrassas are still churning out recruits and our friends continue to appease their radical elements; 2) increase troop numbers and especially the capabilities (language, intel) that are so desperately needed to carry this battle forward. On the contrary, a precipitate withdrawal will have the effect of throwing away a lot of the institutional knowledge and contacts we've acquired at great cost. Documents will be lost, personnel lost. In betrayal many of our old networks will be turned. It's also possible that many current veterans will be disgusted and quit for civilian jobs. All in all, we have not begun to pay the price for a divided political consensus on fighting the war on terror; still to count the cost of not taking the world crisis seriously enough in strategic terms. Whether a Republican or Democrat wins, there will be tough times ahead. A little better if Republican, a possible castrophe if Democrat. But a crisis all the same. Here's hoping that I'm just feeling pessimistic on a Saturday night and completely wrong. Maybe I should go get a beer.

5/20/2007 02:50:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

More Bad News, as anticipated in your comment:

trish said...
The Army is now running 51% below strength in experienced Captains (that is, Captains that have had a company command). That reflects an absolutely astonishing rate of departure.

5/20/2007 03:13:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Depravity In La La Land.
Woman lies on hospital floor, screaming in pain. Staff calls the cops (!) woman dies while being put in squad car!

Officials are dismayed over a "tragic" death at King-Harbor. A nurse has resigned.
---
Think that's the hospital that had the Black Poster Boy Student that aced out the White guy at UC Davis who later won a lawsuit against them.
An astonishing number of his patients ended up dead!

5/20/2007 03:16:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Unless we develop a primal will to exterminate Islamists everywhere and anywhere they exist, regardless of "morality", the results will be what they have been. Those that try to defend everything defend nothing.

5/20/2007 05:09:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

I don't recall anyone saying the ME situation in any of it's spheres was an easy nut to crack, diplomatically or militarily.

If what is past is prologue then for many more decades we are chained to the ME complexities. Our leaders should remind us of that daily instead of trying to draw lines in the sand thousands of miles from the fons et origo.

It will mean death. It will mean huge expenditures of money.
So AQ is back in Afghanistan and making inroads in Iraq. They are also in the USA and making inroads in our criminal class and prisons. If your expectations were less it's origin was from your own lack of ME history and Islamic knowledge.

In the current book I am reading Power, Faith, and Fanasy points out that it is easily Islam that is the greatest source of constant world problems over the centuries and milleniums.

They are not going to give up and it's only going to get worse,UNLESS we decimate them, Iran,Syria and other hot spots.

Bomb the madrasses. Increase there pain. Send them to paradise in large numbers. Unleash every killing device we have in our arsenal.

There is no other choice. Appeasement will not work. They look at negotitation as weak which only emboldens them. They know only the sword and the lie and in it's latest itieration that is NBC and more obfuscation.
The approaches they take to conquest have not changed in a thousand years.
We must deal with it or lose our civilization.

Try this one experiment. When you get home from work next Friday, immediately turn off your main circuit breaker. Live that entire weekend, make it a three dayer, with just what you would normally have in your house. No trips anywhere. If here in the US sleeper cells knock out the power grid to several major areas this will be your life. The streets will belong to the hordes of scavengers bent on acquiring your goodies. They'll come to your neighborhoods to get it. Are you in any way prepared for that? The police and National Guard aren't. Chances are a resounding no from 98%. If you think this isn't a real possibility then you aren't keeping up.
So take care of them now, over there and hopefully minimize the chaos here or have the chaos here in full bloom. Either way we're going to be dealing with the waxing and waning of AQ and Islam forever. Best we be on top of our game.

It is becoming increasingly apparent with every maladroit bill Congress passes and the President signs that it is us, the regular citizen that must once again defend our own interests.
Congress passed and funded a wall to be built on our southern border. It's being done at glacial speed, if done at all. It is now in each of our hands to defend ourselves. Have a nice day.

5/20/2007 05:19:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Generations come
and generations go,
but the earth the same remains.

The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hastens back to rise again.

The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
and to its circuit the wind returns.

Streams flow to the sea,
and the sea is never full.
To the place the streams flow,
again they there return.

All things are full of weariness;
a man cannot utter it;
the eye is not satisfied with seeing,
nor the ear filled with hearing.

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.


Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write this as a memorial in a book and recite it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.”

5/20/2007 05:39:00 AM  
Blogger sakthi said...

Every country knows that USA funding Pakistan,but it is different issue that for what cause the money utilizing by Pakistan government..One day Pakistan will challenge US like Saddam..US have to stop its double standard on terrorism otherwise they'll be a huge sufferer than anyone else...
Car Breakdown Cover

5/20/2007 05:40:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

Mətušélaḥ,
I never tire of readng that, thanks.

5/20/2007 05:50:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"It will mean death. It will mean huge expenditures of money."
---
Desert Storm was largely fought by drawing down and disposing of our "excess" capacity after the fall of the Soviet Union.
You and I know, Habu, that huge expenditures would not be required, if we similarly drew down our Nuclear Arsenal in addressing Warizistan.

Iran and the other 9th Century Sandmonkeys would quickly get in line, problem solved.
But, of course we won't.

More must die, huge expenditures of money must be wasted.
Protocols of the 'Boners.

5/20/2007 05:54:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wetland [Mark Steyn]

Five and a half years on, the only good news on the 9/11 memorials is that they're not (yet) Islamic Education Centers funded by Saudi princes. Nonetheless, Jonathan V Last's account of the Flight 93 memorial's "progress" makes very sobering reading. A combination of bureaucratic process and our contemporary culture's default mode of tasteful passivity has brought about something that's more or less the precise opposite of what Flight 93 embodies:

Part of the Bowl is designated "Wetlands": "The area will be its own kind of healing landscape, as it will be a habitat full of life. . . . Here visitors will be most aware of continuously connected living systems as the circular path literally bridges the hydrology of the Bowl."

The architects proclaimed that their plan was for a "living memorial" that "offers the visitor space for reflection, learning, social interaction, and healing."

All that plus wind chimes. A true Flight 93 memorial would honor courage, action and improvisation, but reflection, healing and wetlands are the best we can manage. Go to any Civil War memorial on any New England common, and marvel at how they managed to honor their dead without wetlands and wind chimes.

LINK

5/20/2007 05:58:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

5/20/2007 06:09:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

A friend posed an interesting question to me the other day.

How deep did I believe the veneer of civilization is in the US?

If simultaneously AQ was to hit five or six of our major cities, simply by knocking out the power grids, how long before the looting begins?

Consider this. If the power grid goes down for a week, or longer

* In a week no drinking water
* If more than a month huge populations outflows from the cities and they're coming to your town(see Katrina)
* All communications go down. telephone companies central offices do have battery back up but after 72 hours they are finished.
That means the phones,hardline and cell are down. No internet. Without communication law and order are out the window.
* people with chronic health problems are doomed. Ventilators,dialysis,no resupply of oxygen bottles, no resupply of insulin.
* no heat or A/C
*no 911 to call cause you can't

Just go back and reread the horrors of losing the grid in the Northeast a few years back and that was just for a brief time.

Just think about it ... your friendly AQ and mulitant Islam is.

5/20/2007 06:09:00 AM

5/20/2007 06:18:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

Doug 5:54 post..great point ,when do we begine drawing cown THAT arsenal. I say tomorrow isn' too soon

5/20/2007 06:23:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

Doug,
Mark Steyn is coming close in my book to a modern Will Rogers, or H.L Menchen. He's Canadian yet he can pinpoint this re: you link..thanks

Go to any Civil War memorial on any New England common, and marvel at how they managed to honor their dead without wetlands and wind chimes.

5/20/2007 06:28:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

Worth the knowledge and time reading.

Turning The Corner In Iraq

The progress in the past three short months in Iraq is unmistakable. Since General Petraeus has taken command of MNF-I forces in mid February, the convergence of developments has fundamentally changed the outlook in Iraq.

LINK

5/20/2007 06:43:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

5/20/2007 06:47:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

You left out the Sewage Treatment Plants, I think, Habu:
Third World Style Disease Pandemics.

5/20/2007 06:50:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

5/20/2007 07:43:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

Doug,
It was just a starter list..I didn't want to shock the adults into reality all at once.

5/20/2007 07:50:00 AM  
Blogger 3Case said...

In lage part, Comment #4 by Marc, from the Winds of Change link:

"Just a small observation. This piece is written by Nitin Pai who quotes Manjeet Kripalani and Rohit Pradhan.....all Indians.
Now should US have a policy for Turkey scripted by Greeks? Or an Indian policy conjured by first generation Chinese Americans? Why are 'they' so eager to get rid of Musharraf?Hmmm..
The ONLY pontification we can take to the bank is US must encourage slow, measured steps towards a more representative system of governance over time in tandem with economic and education reforms. It must absolutely NOT intervene prematurely and publicly to undermine its friend Musharraf and help instal a sham democracy a la Bhutto/Sharief."

5/20/2007 08:06:00 AM  
Blogger buck smith said...

"This the liberal idea of a favorable battlefield, though for what reason I can't say."

Wretchard, you are funny!! Made me laugh out loud, this line is a classic. Right after 9-11, I believed that it would be better to attack Iraq first because it was easier to fight in the deserts than the mountains.

5/20/2007 08:13:00 AM  
Blogger 3Case said...

Re: Depravity in La La Land

Sad story. Getting through triage in any big city hospital is a horror show. If you come in through the front door and haven't an open vein or a bone protruding, you wait. 3+ years ago, I arrived with my Wife with a fever of 103.5F and climbing, getting past triage only took 10 minutes; still have to do the paperwork, ya know.

My Wife spends 6-10 weeks a year in a big city hospital, has for the last 10+ years. Within the last 3 we have noticed a new type of patient appearing in the other bed; they scream and scream and scream and scream and do not cooperate and scream until they've been given 4-6 courses of pain meds, always OxyContin in pill form, then they shut up, pack up, and walk out. OxyContin is worth $1+/mg on the street around here. The staff knows what's up and just puts the pills in the cup in front of them and leaves; doesn't watch the pills be taken because that will just prolong the stay. The screaming reignites about a half hour after the last pills were "taken".

5/20/2007 08:32:00 AM  
Blogger PierreLegrand said...

The same long war tactics that al-Qaeda have successfully used to persuade the liberals of defeat in Iraq are going to be used in Afghanistan/Pakistan.

Hmmm Wretchard not sure that only liberals are questioning the ineptness of our government. Also those of us who are skeptical of the "Petraeus" gambit said before it started that the enemy tactic would be to stand back give the US a fig leaf victory to cover its withdrawal and then move in for the kill once the US is committed to leaving.

The Bush administration steadfastly refuses to deal with Syria and Iran and by ignoring those two countries guarantees the failure of the Iraq war. You cannot allow sovereign countries to supply "insurgencies" and hope for anything but defeat.

The Bush administration may indeed go down in history as the most incompetent administration since Jimmy Carter.

5/20/2007 09:27:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

PierreLegrand

Good on ya mate! Always include(highlighted below) the bold italics when judging while involved in the event as it is unfolding. It does take persective and the declassification of documents to fully understand an event such as we are experiencing

"The Bush administration may indeed go down in history as the most incompetent administration since Jimmy Carter."

That one little saving "may", tis a glory to we who predict the outcome so quickly of the complex.

5/20/2007 09:48:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

I wonder why Musharref hasn't been made an offer he can't refuse. Surely he's scammed all the money he needs for the rest of his pathetic life, his military AND his terrorists are trying to kill him, and Paris is lovely in the springtime, especially if you're a murderous Muslim.

Pakistan is supposed to have The Bomb, but when was the last time anyone actually saw them light one of them suckers off? AND, do they have the structure to deliver it any place else besides downtown Islamabad. Make it part of the deal that when Musharref comes in out of the cold, Dr. Khan also magically disappears.

Is there any doubt whatsoever that if Musharref left *his* country in the same situation that Arafat left the Palestinians, and if the U.S. cut off all further aid to Pakistan, that the ultimate outcome would be Paki's killing Paki's the same way we're seeing Pal's killing Pal's?

Iran and Saudi Arabia might try to keep up the madrassah/jihad funding if the U.S. pulls out, but I can't think of a better way for those two exemplary Muslim countries to waste their oil money than by throwing it down the black hole of supporting ignorant martyrdom.

5/20/2007 09:50:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

A wee bit of trivia...

What person who later became a US Secretary of State served three assassinated Presidents, Lincoln,Garfield ,and McKinley?



John Hay....one more

Of those three this was the first ambidextrous president. It was said that one could ask him a question in English and he could simultaneously write the answer in Latin with one hand, and Ancient Greek with the other.

Which one?....Garfield

...ok the crowd wants another, but really the last one.


Of the three who was the only person in US history to be a Congressman, Senator-elect, and President-elect at the same time. To date, he is the only Congressman to be directly elected President of the United States.....


Your guess..........Garfield again!!!

5/20/2007 10:05:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

5/20/2007 10:10:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

NahnCee,

I'm with ya on why he hasn't boogied...however if he goes to Paris there are so many Mulims there someone could get him there.

His life really isn't worth much anywhere that I can see in todays world ...maybe the witness protection program somewhere in Wyoming or North Dakota.

5/20/2007 10:12:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

Feeble President Carter is desperate in finding a President to replace his current number one standing as THE WORST

Since we do have 27 years of perpective on his presidency it can be fairly judged as a peanut farmer from Georgia's best effort at running a country. Ugh.

His best chance to find a replace was looking good with Al Gore's candidacy but as we are all aware, through hoodoo,felony, and trickery, Al was robbed by the US Supreme Court of his place at the head of the WH dinner table.

Jimma grows weary on my brain with each utterance,book, and op-ed he produces.

Where are the attack rabbits when you need 'em?

5/20/2007 10:45:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

mark steyn is the finest columnist writing today.

Capitulation, from A------ to Z

Don't worry: It's not an "amnesty." Every politician in America is opposed to amnesty -- if not the concept, then at least the word. That's why the visa starts with the letter that's furthest away from the one "amnesty" begins with. "Z" stands for zellout . . . no, hang on, zurrender or Zapatista, or some other word way up the other end of the alphabet from "amnesty." But the point is, at a stroke there will be no more illegal immigrants. Because being illegal means you're now legal.

Unless, of course, you came to America after Jan. 1, 2007, and thus aren't covered by the zamnesty. But in that case why not apply for the Z-1 anyway? After all, you're here illegally so how would U.S. Immigration know when you arrived? Especially with 12-15-20 million urgent applications tossed in on top of what's already a multi-year backlog


The column in full

5/20/2007 11:05:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

If we thought Cuba's exodus of the Merilitos was bad, which we did, how can this amnesty be justified?

5/20/2007 11:21:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Habu,

Excellent work ethic. It's ok to take a little break. You're not Mexican, yet. :D

5/20/2007 11:47:00 AM  
Blogger R said...

Bring out the long knives! Compassionate Conservatism seems to have died. George Bush behaves like a man whose greatest wish is to be crucified like Jesus, note how the citizens are turning against him! Pakistan is one jump from going over the cliff into 14th century hell. Or maybe all this is part of a greater plan to totally destabilize all Muslim countries who hate the US...

So, Donald Sutherland's son, Keifer, is doing for this generation what his father did for mine via Mash...24 is setting a stage wherein our last supper takes place. For Judas, may I present Sandy Berger.

Just maybe among all this crap a true American leader will emerge. If so, what we will, the citizens, do?

5/20/2007 12:08:00 PM  
Blogger Habu said...

It's an escape from honey-do's.

or some other get-a-life deal.

if you know John Lee Hooker's work
Boogie Chillen then you knos da line... It's in 'em and its gotz ta come out

a bit of John Lee

Well my mama she didn't 'low me, just to stay out all night long, oh Lord
Well my mama didn't 'low me, just to stay out all night long
I didn't care what she didn't 'low, I would boogie-woogie anyhow

When I first came to town people, I was walkin' down Hastings Street
Everybody was talkin' about, the Henry Swing Club
I decided I drop in there that night
When I got there, I say, "Yes, people"
They was really havin' a ball!
Yes, I know
Boogie Chillun!

One night I was layin' down,
I heard mama 'n papa talkin'
I heard papa tell mama, let that boy boogie-woogie,
it's in him, and it got to come out
And I felt so good,
went on boogie'n just the same

5/20/2007 12:26:00 PM  
Blogger PierreLegrand said...

Compassionate Conservatism seems to have died.

From now on I take what politicians say seriously. I discounted that nonsense about Compassionate conservatism as just some more of that pap thrown in the general direction of the liberals. Oops. He was serious. He really is compassionate, he is giving away everything I worked for his compassion. How nice of him.

Iraq does not need a surge..it needs to disassemble the Iranians and Syrians supplying the "insurgents" any other strategy is foolish.

5/20/2007 12:27:00 PM  
Blogger Habu said...

r

It's been a lot of years since Ronald Reagan.

The question is, would the American people even recognise leadership if it was present?

Remember, the 60's generation is about as F'up as a generation can get....'cept of course me and the few other 60's comservative Boomers.

The markers the 60's liberals put down are really crap...

5/20/2007 12:34:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

Writing Latin with your left hand, and Greek with your right,at the same time, now that's quite a feat, I'll betcha Gerry Ford couldn't have done that:)

5/20/2007 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

I'm looking for a candidate that can write Latin with his left hand, Greek with his right, walking, and chewing gum, all at the same time.

5/20/2007 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger Habu said...

Bob-L,

That IS a tall order my friend. I do believe we'll have to wait for some type of cloning procedure.

I recall once reading that Alexander Hamilton's college entrance exam was similar. The pooh-bahs handed him a Bible written in Latin and he had to translate it to Greek ... verbally.

Today we have people like Al Sharpton who have the audacity to run for the Presidency .. now I'd be will'n to bet that if you gave ole Al Sharpton an ounce of cocaine he could tell you to the gram how much to "cut" it to maximize it's street value.. then he's slip his buddy Slick Willie a gram for being our first black president and having his retirement office in Harlem.

5/20/2007 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger Habu said...

RESPONSIBLE IRRESPONSIBILTY

The word in the world since Vietnam is that if you are engaged in a shooting situation with the USA all you need to do is wait, allow their leftests to gin up the anti-war rhetoric, wait just a bit longer and they'll leave, tail between their legs. It's more than just the word in the world , it's the fact. So what do you do?

Normally, we like our metaphors in football-speak but I'm a baseball guy so indulge me.

Back in the day pitchers would knock a heavy hitter off the plate with a high hard one, chin music it was called. Now with him back on his heels a bit, not dug in ,you could be more effective working the batter.

We should do the same thing on the world stage. We've had these nuclear weapons for a long time now. We have artillery shells, small nukes, big nukes,nukey nukes , but we don't use any of them. Well it's time for some chin music.

We pick out a target, lets say Somalia,poor, illiterate, a country of no value inhabited by people who once humiliated us. So we nuke them hard..kill 'em all. Like whose gonna miss 'em. Make it what use to be called a BOOB strike, Bolt Out Of the Blue.

Suddenly the US begins to look not quite so predictable...maybe the US holds a grudge? Maybe the US leadership is similar to Iranian leadership,except they already have a real big stack of boom-boom.

Betcha it would change the negotiating stances of some of these pip squeak countries that are tweaking us constantly. We don't make them pay, so they just keep on fu'k'n with us. Oh yeah economic sanctions right..hell the people of Somalia are starving as the warlords thugs live ok. What are sanctions gonna do to them, make them poor and skinny?

I say a bit of irrationality could go a long way to becoming a responsible world power.

5/20/2007 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger R said...

Habu,

It's going to take me some time to dig my bomb shelter: Your idea of being irrational via nuking someone, somewhere, only makes me want to work faster...

Not a good idea, only a last resort for me, and I hope most Americans.

I say we cut off Iran's economic arteries, and if possible, do the same to Syria. Then, let's really pump up all of our Special Forces in all branches of the military; along with undercover personnel in the CIA and FBI. Send these special units out in the shadows to do some pinpoint message sending, greetings if you will, to those who are the "brains" that seek our destruction.

Meanwhile, we throw the State Department into a new washing machine wherein we clean house real real good! Next we send our Clean Diplomats out with new orders: Find out who likes us and who wants to work with us. Find out what these people want from us. Those who hate us...find out what they hate and how they would like for us to change. Next, come back to the American people and give us an Honest Report, one that is as complete as possible too.

If I hear the word redaction...the game is over.

Leave the nukes alone. It may be easy to think of killing your enemies, quite another thing to do it, either from a distance or up close and personal...PTSD doesn't just come from thin air!

5/20/2007 03:30:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Winning Wars without killing enemies has been put to the test and found wanting.

Sanctions on Iran would be fine if we first Nuked Europe and Russia.
Til then, a mere pipedream.

5/20/2007 04:10:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Realism"

5/20/2007 04:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Near Honor Killing at Hollywood High

Beverly Hills Teen In Custody After Hammer Attack

(CBS) LOS ANGELES A Beverly Hills teenager attacked a prep school classmate with a claw hammer as they sat in his Jaguar, authorities said.

Harvard-Westlake Hammer Attack Suspect Charged
"On the left side, her head was shaped like a football. ...
Hayden said the suspect struck her 40 times with a claw hammer, shattering her leg and splitting ...

The 17-year-old girl's mother, Barbara Hayden, told the Los Angeles Times her daughter was struck 40 times with a claw hammer, breaking her nose, shattering her leg and splitting open her scalp in several places.

"Her hair and face were caked with blood," Hayden said. "On the left side, her head was shaped like a football."

Hayden said her daughter told her that before pulling the hammer from a backpack her classmate said he had thought about committing suicide.

After her attacker hit her several times, the girl's mother said, he pulled her from the car by her hair and continued assaulting her until the hammer broke. Then he began to choke her until she bit his finger.
---
Broken Hammer

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Prep student suspected of beating girl is hospitalized

A 17-year-old Harvard-Westlake student was hospitalized and receiving psychiatric treatment Wednesday after allegedly beating a female classmate with a hammer and trying to choke her while they were parked in a car near the private campus in Studio City.

Attorney Patrick Smith, who is representing the boy's family, said he contacted the Los Angeles Police Department on Tuesday morning and said the family, described as distraught over the incident, was fully cooperating with the investigation.

"His family has very, very complicated feelings about this," Smith said. "The girl may have saved this boy's life and suffered greatly for it."

---
Victim Concerned about Attacker's Welfare:

Kleinman said she had been working in her upstairs office when she heard screams and saw a girl covered in blood running from a beige Jaguar parked under her window. A boy in jeans and a T-shirt got out and apparently ran after the girl, she said.

By the time Kleinman ran downstairs, the girl was lying on the pavement, and the boy had returned to the car and sped away. "She kept saying that he was going to kill himself, that she was afraid he was going to go back to school and commit suicide," Kleinman said.
---
Did She just Suffer a Bad Acne Day?

"But the girl who was allegedly attacked..."

5/20/2007 04:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Harvard-Westlake is considered one of the most prestigious, rigorous college prep schools in the country.

Annual tuition is almost $24,000, and the school boasts a roster of celebrity families and alumni such as Los Angeles City Council President Eric Garcetti, astronaut Sally Ride and actor Jake Gyllenhaal.

5/20/2007 04:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Who was counting?
...or was it a bit of artistic license borrowing from that old "40 Whacks" line?

5/20/2007 04:43:00 PM  
Blogger Habu said...

r,

Sorry, but everything you outlined is traditional and shopworn. Plus it doesn't work.
Economic sanctions on Somalia? As I already pointed out that gets you fatter warlords and thugs and never works. Some countries will foil any embargo we attempt. I specifically pick Somalia because there is no nuclear power that would retaliate against the US with a counter strike over Somalia and we owe them a good pranging. Other countries setting off nukes at us? Ain't gonna happen.

But it would engender "The Holy Shit" effect worldwide and cause everyone to wonder just how unstable we might be. The big powers won't care and the shit countries that keep poking us in the eye will stop.
You don't need the biggest nuke in our arsenal to topple the constuction techniques used in Mogadishu believe me.

Point is nobody, I mean nobody believes we can use our military for a victory, only for a better bargaining position...unless we cut and run first which is what we've been doing for the past thirty plus years.

5/20/2007 05:40:00 PM  
Blogger Habu said...

r,

I'd get that backhoe busy soon, and not for any of the reasons I outlined.

The IAEA has already stated as of last week that Iran has crossed the "red line". The red line is Israel's threshold to tolerate any more progress by the Iranians to attempt to develop enough nuclear material for a bomb.

The estimates we are now starting to hear talked about are not five year projections but six months to a eighteen months tops.

Regardless of our position on attacking Iran's sites with our non nuclear but recently developed 30,000 pound conventional bombs, Israel will have to use nuclear weapons to get the job done. THAT will cause more than a hiccup in the world, but it's coming because the Israeli's aren't walking back into the shower rooms of the 1940's again, even if it costs them everything. NEVER AGAIN and they mean it.
So hoe away because what you outlined would take a decade to gin up IF we could and we can't. Right now the Army is down 15% on the number of captains it needs..we can't just puff up an all volunteer army overnight and a draft isn't going to happen.

Finally, no President in my lifetime (Truman was Pres when I was born) has been able to get the State Department civil servants to do anything but mark time until retirement. Foggy Bottom has been a joke for decades.
An honest report to the American people. It can't happen because it would by definiton require giving away sources and methods of intelligence gathering in it's explainations. That can not happen, that's why we have a representative democracy with a Congress that has set up an intelligence committee. That committe is useless however when run by Democrats and just marginally better when run by Republicans.

5/20/2007 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The stated purpose of the American “surge” operation in Iraq is to dampen down violence in Iraq during the summer in order to allow Iraq’s political factions a chance to achieve political reconciliation. This reconciliation is supposed to arrive in the form of new laws governing the distribution of oil revenues, re-instatement of Sunnis into the government, revisions the Sunnis want to the constitution, and setting a date and procedure for provincial elections.

These are highly contentious issues, requiring the strenuous attention during the summer of Iraq’s factional leaders like Messrs. Talabani and al-Hakim.

Instead of working on these issues, the Kurds and the Shi’ites are likely to instead spend the summer fighting over succession. Nor is it known whether Iraq’s parliament will be meeting many days during the summer to draft, debate, and pass legislation.

These illnesses, the incapacitation of Mr. al-Hakim and the downward trend of Mr. Talabani, could not have come at a worst time for either the Iraqis or the Americans. The necessity of “Plan B” in September, whatever that might be, seems more likely than ever.

posted by Westhawk at 5:41 PM

5/20/2007 07:24:00 PM  
Blogger R said...

Dear Habu, you present all the reasons why my ideas should be floated, tested and responded to. Earlier, I asked for a true leader, suggesting one who could communicate to the American people, who--the last time I looked in the mirror, are us.

When the average American citizen stands and fights...well now, who is going to beat us? You can use your nukes, however, I think that if the rest of the peoples on this planet were to see and realize a "united citizens" of America reality...the game would be over.

Also, I said "cut off Iran's economic arteries" not employ sanctions, a drip drip process quite different than severing a vital flow (that has in the past considered an act of war, right?).

As to "foggy bottom" and those who inhabit this fortress: I wanted to clean house. In the business world this is called a "turnaround" process. Blood is all over the place, it becomes ruthless, the goal is a new beginning, anyone who stands in the way gets axed.

As to killing other people, I have spent my time in such a sport, wearing an American uniform. Life has never been the same since.

When I visited Japan in '66 on some R&R, it was amazing to me how these people extended the hand of friendship to Americans. I wondered how far hatred could go. When I helped to restore a Fat Man
casing for the Kirkland Atomic Museum, I again pondered the death and destruction this bomb created.

No, I think were Americans to stand up and tell the world that we are from everywhere on this planet, from every country, every society, and we want peace, happiness, and stability...and we will not tolerate being terrorized any longer, I think the game at this point will move into the winning side.

Everyone knows we have nukes, and they know we have been the only country to use them in a time of war. Our goal is to keep it this way, and then to work for a common good.

Even our enemies of today go home to families that love them, and cry for them when death comes too soon.

Work for a united American voice. It could do wonders.

5/20/2007 07:25:00 PM  
Blogger Mike H. said...

R, what is the name of your true leader?

I think that Habu covered all the bases. We've been watching everything (sanctions, negotiations, threats, backroom talks) fail and everyone keeps saying more. We have no 'more' there. The fact that Zawahiri feels comfortable with the latest propaganda ploy should alert us to our problem. It amazed me when I saw it working in Vietnam and it's amazing me now. We're tromping along like a brain dead elephant with the jackals hamstringing it. The donkey that's leading it hasn't figured out what will happen when the elephant is gone.

5/20/2007 09:18:00 PM  
Blogger Towering Barbarian said...

Habu: "Finally, no President in my lifetime (Truman was Pres when I was born) has been able to get the State Department civil servants to do anything but mark time until retirement. Foggy Bottom has been a joke for decades."

Quoted for great truth! >_<

It has sometimes been my sentiment that the best thing we could do is just abolish the Civil Service Laws and go back to the Spoils System so that the President can be able to exert proper control over the Executive Branch.

5/21/2007 12:40:00 AM  
Blogger Habu said...

r,

I don't mean to be a bore on this issue but I feel compelled to highlight a few of your points and why I feel they won't or can't work.

First, your "true leader" desire.
You'll get very few who would disagree. Trouble is their isn't one in sight, anywhere. And in the current environment in DC where the game is "get the President" even someone as good as Ronald Reagan gets investigated into paralysis regardlesss of the validity of the charges.
What we have now are small men with either lots of money or egos that far exceed their leadership abilities. It's the old JFK responding to the reporters question about why he wanted to be President given his wealth and bluebook status. His reply, "Because that's where the power lies" I do not see anyone who wants anything more than power and self aggrandizement.

As for united citizens. Well that has happened only once in my reading of US history and that was after Pearl Harbor. But up until Pearl in October of '41, just two months before Pearl and after the fall of France,Holland,Belgium, Dunkirk, and the Battle of Britain over 80% of the American public, as guaged by the Gallop poll people, thought we should stay out of the war. Today the haunts of Vietnam still have us clearly divided into two camps. The aged hippies in suits headed to retirerment and the conservatives.
How the heck did Bill Clinton get elected twice..not because we're united.And with the amnesty for 15 million new unassimilated aliens theres not going to be unity for many a decade if ever again. Only a fracturing into more and more groups wanting special privleges. I'm afraid what you want is a prayer fulfilled rather than anything attainable by mankind.

"Cut off Iran's economic arteries" . Those things never work. We tried through the UN sanction after UN sanction to twart Iraq, only to find out that Germany and France, two "democracies" had secret oil deals, as did the Russians. You get into the sanctions and cutting off arteries game and you might as well be playing with yourself in the shower.

Cleaning house at Fogggy Bottom. Those are civil servants, untouchable until they retire or moon the President, so that's not doable at all, period. They know that Secretaries of State come and go with their staffs,but they, the undaunted civil servant, the cogs that run the machine, are there until they retire so why bust ass?

Killing people. Ive been there done that and most of them all needed killing. I did it covertly and overtly. There are about three quarters of a billion Islams that need killing right now.

"peace, happiness, and stability."..

We're the greatest benefactor the world has ever seen. We give more away free to the world than all the other countires combined. Since we must work through the host government the common man never sees an ounce of rice or wheat. The leaders slaughter their own people to build villas in Switzerland. We've taxed ourselves silly to help bring peace, happiness and stability to the world ..I don't see any.

"Even our enemies of today go home to families that love them, and cry for them when death comes too soon" Sorry, our enemies of today go home and teach their kids to become suicide bombers, the women are chattel, and their Islam teaches them to love death not life.

"Work for a united American voice"
That is a labor of waste. We have never had a unied voice and never will. We didn't have one at the inception of this country, nor through any period of our history. "What is, is"..Alexander Pope said. That is the way it has been and always will be.

I applaud your desire for these things. They are all noble and worthy, but mankind is more Hobbsian than Benthamite at this point in time. As Hobbs said, "The life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short.”

5/21/2007 03:44:00 AM  
Blogger David M said...

Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 05/21/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention.

5/21/2007 07:48:00 AM  
Blogger Elmondohummus said...

"One of the most difficult tasks any foreign mission can face is working through established, but corrupt institutions of a sovereign government. Foreign advisers often use control over resources as leverage to influence counterparts to make things happen in the field. Unfortunately as the resources are released to the host government the balance of influence often gradually but inexorably shifts to the locals. Moreover the local foreign ministry can go over the local mission's head and advisers can find themselves having to implement a policy crafted by locals who have managed to out-sell them back home."

Agreed. This is one criticism David Hackworth made regarding the Vietnam War in his book "About Face". It's nearly an identical description of his assessment and recommendations, down to the Newspost India/NYTimes pull quote about tying aid to performance.

Iraqis in the field get a gatekeeper - usually a soldier - who's probably more focused on the immediate task rather on navigating various social and governmental interests when dispensing aid. That's probably a big reason why they're doing better.

5/21/2007 04:32:00 PM  
Blogger 3Case said...

"Foggy Bottom has been a joke for decades."

...and a treasonous one oftentimes.

5/21/2007 05:59:00 PM  

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