Sunday, June 04, 2006

Forget About It

Haditha big. Canadian terrorism, small.

Question: what's the most important news story of the past week? Haditha, Haditha, Haditha, Haditha, Canada, Britain. Ooops. Haditha, Haditha. Haditha. That's not to say the possible misconduct of US military personnel is not news, but the characteristic of correctly functioning sensory organs is that objects appear in their due proportion. If mice seemed the size of elephants and elephants the size of mice a visit to the doctor would seem in order. The press is the public's sensory organ.

Pajamas Media has a roundup of stories on the recent terrorism arrests in Canada involving suspects, many of them teens, who had never been to Afghanistan or Iraq, were as Canadian as Molson Beer or American as Apple Pie and had in their possession three times the explosive used in the Oklahoma City bombing. But large as the Canadian story is it is probably only part of something even larger. Atlas Shrugs quotes Cuanas, who supplies the connecting idea.

A week back the FBI and the Justice Dept announced that they were conducting "urgent" investigations into terror cells across the US, and in particular in NYC. The next day, British intelligence made a similar announcement.

Then, we had the London raid and the Toronto raid. Clearly, something massive is in the works, spanning at least three major Western countries. But, if Canada is a target, why not France, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Germany?

My guess is they are also targets. An early report out of London also said that police had ordered a five mile no fly zone around the site of the bust. This might also indicate they suspect rocket launchers.

Three tons of explosive. Suicide poison gas vests. MANPADs maybe. Home grown. Move along now, nothing to see here. Haditha is a story, but no matter how much anyone wants to keep it on the front page the sad reality is the really bigger stories won't stay still. They keep trying to climb above the fold. A National Post account of the Canadian arrests illustrates exactly how this process of trying to keep them below the fold works. The Canadian authorities described the suspects as follows:

With the exception of two men, who are aged 43 and 30, the alleged terrorists are all in their teens and early 20s. They include men of Somali, Egyptian, Jamaican, and Trinidadian origin. All are residents of Canada and “for the most part” all are Canadian citizens, police said. Charged are: Fahim Ahmad, 21, Zakaria Amara, 20, Asad Ansari, 21, Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, Mohammed Dirie, 22, Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, Jahmaal James, 23, Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, Steven Vikash Chand, 25, and Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21. A twelfth man was a youth when some of the alleged offences took place and can’t be named, along with the other five youths arrested. 

“For various reasons, they appear to have become adherents to a violent ideology inspired by al-Qaida,” said Luc Portelance, the CSIS assistant director of operations. ...“It is important to know that this operation in no way reflects negatively on any specific community, or ethno-cultural group in Canada,” he added.

Really, what's a guy to do? Luc Portelance tried delivering a straight line and came off as comedian.  The phrase "it is important to know that this operation in no way reflects negatively on any specific community, or ethno-cultural group in Canada" will one day vie with that classic, "any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental."


From a purely academic point of view future historians will find this period an interesting example of how manipulated perceptions struggled obstinately with suppressed reality for the center stage of the policy debate. Some of the questions that will be asked fifty years from now are: what was Scooter Libby really charged with? Is that all? How come millions of people could die in Darfur without anyone noticing? Why were people obsessed with the possible criminal behavior of a handful of Marines in Iraq and uninterested in why their wonderful universities and high schools  could produce kids who would be interested in blowing up buildings, spreading poison gas, or maybe shooting down airliners with surface to air missiles. And the most interesting thing about this period is that for a brief time, the manufactured perceptions almost looked like winning. Until reality weighed in.


Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

Seems like a great many events were planned for 06-06-06.

Could it be that an "atrocity" that supposedly took place in November was resurrected for the purpose of monopolizing attention and justifying a large scale, coordinated attack in multiple locations?

6/04/2006 06:35:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

Maybe I'm guilty of wishful thinking but I think the American public already "gets it." In spite of the PC nonsense and despite the left media's constitutional scare mongering, we have not seen a large scale public outcry against electronic surveillance. In deed, in spite of a "drawn out" occupation of Iraq, the anti-war movement has sputtered. It appears to this writer that the American public understands the "fundamental" nature of the Islamist threat. In fact, the current furor over a porous southern border is essentially because of security concerns.

It seems that the public "gets it" but the question is: Do the Politicians understand?

6/04/2006 06:42:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I wonder if the NSA violated their rights? The politicians that stepped out in front of the NSA story may be having a nervous twitch over their corn flakes.

6/04/2006 06:45:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...


Funny. Someone was saying exactly that to me. The Haditha thing, though promoted to the limit, is curiously a dud on the streets. The same person suggested that people were "bracing" themselves; that they were resigned to what the storm they felt was inevitable. This was before the Canadian arrests. That person also suggested that the real fault of President Bush was doing things by halves. It was one thing to risk US lives, money and prestige. It was another to risk them for nothing, that is to say, for no definite result.

But to return to Canada, in the previous threads there was some discussion about whether this leftist stuff wasn't actually prolonging the conflict and costing lives. That's not to say that was the only factor but simply that it was some kind of contributory factor.

But here these recent events change the question somewhat. We are used to hearing "see how American foreign policy creates terrorism?" But here's a counter-question. How much of the stuff generated by the Left directly produces terrorists? Directly educates them to think in this way. The London bombers were home grown. Many of the Canadian suspects were born and raised there. They were not trained in Afghanistan. What they learned, they learned in Canada. And there are Americans among the suspects too. So the question again is how much of the stuff generated by the left directly and explicitly produces terrorists? Or is that subject off limits? I don't think it should be.

6/04/2006 06:49:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...

This thang ain't over...

It is like an NBA basketball season. Long and dreary with another season afterward called playoffs or something...

Soon enough reality will force the illusions off the field of battle just like the bottom dweller teams are culled out of the playoff season.

Canada has been soft on the conflict. I predicted last year that they would be the next hit. Oooooo, Toronto is such a debaucherous place for jihadis who know what clubs to visit. However, it looks as if Canada’s internal Gestapo is a bit better than I thought – or maybe their internal jihadis are a bit less skilled than could be imagined. It is truly odd that they are on al-Qaeda’s hit list, what an honor.

This playoff round will be defined by creating a lasting peace. The media team is gunning three point shots from half-court. And, they make some spectacular shots. But, look at the fans in the arena. Their faces don’t seem to show much confidence in a team that can’t move the ball or read the court.

Special Note to the Border Militarization Folks:
By the way, how many of these jihadis were captured south of the US border… Me thinks that is a Hindu or Islamic concept – I am implying the number 0. We have to deal with our friends to the south in a different context than our maternal instinct friends to the north. This, however, is at least the second groups of Terror Turds that have been ‘spotted’ as a result of crossing borders legally (I am thinking about another Canadian border trip for Y2K). So controlling borders is key. As is controlling our ocean borders. A sailboat can travel from Vancouver or Ensanada to an American marina in less than a day.

6/04/2006 06:52:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

the subject is off limits.

6/04/2006 06:53:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

Haditha Reporter Was Jailed By US, Shares Name With Source

. . . I am surprised that we have heard nothing about the curious background of one of the first journalists to report the story, Ali Omar Abrahem al-Mashhadani, from the "restive town" of Ramadi.

It turns out Mr. al-Mashhadani might not have felt the kindliest intentions towards the US, having been imprisoned for five months mere weeks before his Haditha scoop.

Al-Mashhadani was detained because images found on his camera and because of his "ties to the insurgents," according to US officials.

Indeed, al-Mashhadani has since been detained by the US again, for two weeks. In fact he was only released today (1 JUN).

Ali al-Mashhadani writes for Reuters, mentions the following in story:

Abdel Rahman al-Mashhadani, head of Hammurabi, said U.S. Marines had killed 15 people in Haditha after the roadside bomb attack. The group’s Haditha branch said it got the video from a local man.

6/04/2006 06:57:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

That conspiracy theory, cannoneer is further afield than Baghdad's current popular meme, that the US is about to stage a coup and install some BaathLite General-President.

Or that the Republicans kept 350,000 voters away from the Polls, in Ohio.

6/04/2006 06:58:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...

The subject is a parallel argument to 'what are we going to do with the Axis powers now that the war is over?'

Turn the land to farms with peasants and plows.

Or, spend a decade (or decades) and germinate modern civilization in barbarian lands...

Hate to say it, but folks who meekly follow 'strong men' are barbarians - or at least have barbaric tendancies.

Not forever though. Look at the French!!! The Romans considered them barbarians - and they were.

6/04/2006 07:00:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...


"The subject is off limits"

Dang. That's too bad. Because that means it's going to be discussed in lowered tones in bar booths or on some dark lawn. And it take us back to the whole question raised by the post. How can we have a debate when all the interesting subjects won't be carried by the newspapers?

There's a comic book called Alien Loves Predator in which the two creatures live in New York City and go about their lives and no one, at least in the comics, appears to notice that they are somewhat unusual, even for New York City. I guess that's the kind of world we live in now. Because you're right. It is off limits. Get your copy of Alien Loves Predator.

6/04/2006 07:02:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...

My comment regarding 'the fans in the arena' was an image of the American populace.

Are we rending our clothing over Hidatha?

Are we confident the media has the story straight?

Are we not looking at our fine institutions of higher Leftist ideology?

I see some slow, old, mediacrat puking up another half-court shot. How exiting...

6/04/2006 07:05:00 AM  
Blogger gokart-mozart said...

rat 6:58AM: Do you not think Saddam is waiting for his cent jours moment, when he throws open his coat and declaims, "Iraqis, shoot your President, or lead me to the palace"?

I do, and I'm not a little concerned about what will happen then.

6/04/2006 07:07:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Yes, cannoneer, the people, of Haditha do not like US, so what?
The Doctors, Lawyers even the Police. That was not really news yesterday when you posted it, less so today. Unless weapons were in the hands of those shot, they were not "good" targets.

Attacking the accuser won't work, he is not going to be in the "Court" presenting evidence, regardless.

The problem is bigger than Haditha
"...Iraq's ambassador to the United States, Samir Sumaidaie, was equally blunt about an atrocity that, he claims, happened to his own family. A year ago, says Sumaidaie, Marines raided the home of his cousin, a school principal in a small village in Anbar province. The Marines shot the man's son, a student home from college. The only weapon in the house was an AK-47 loaded with blanks. Ambassador Sumaidaie protested all the way to Gen. George Casey, the Coalition forces commander, but was told that the Americans fired in self-defense—and that the ambassador had to file a Freedom of Information Act request if he wanted to see the investigative file. "It was a cold blooded murder," says Sumaidaie. The killers, he says, "should be weeded out openly and without hesitation." ..."

From , which YOU may discount as a reliable source, but tens of millions of US do not.

6/04/2006 07:09:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...


For whatever reasons, the multi-culti left has certainly denigrated the ideas of Western Exceptionalism and Judaeo-Christian values.

Some of the best insight/explanations/documentation for western Islamic youth becoming radicalised has been written by Theodore Dalrymple.

Start with "The Suicide Bombers Among US, Autumn 2005.

6/04/2006 07:16:00 AM  
Blogger Dymphna said...

oh, dear. What does it mean when I begin to think like you, Wretchard? When I first read the Canadian stories, I thought "there goes Haditha."

However, if "the press is the public's sensory organ" then we are in big trouble, given that in general the press cherry picks its stories. The crimes of the press against the reality of Katrina are by turn stunning, surreal, or scurrilous, depending on one's vantage point of the moment.

So far my favorite quote was from a young man interviewed by Sky News in the UK. He was aggrieved that his friend, arrested in the raid there, had been shot in the shoulder by police:

He said: "Going into someone's house and shooting them in front of their mum, that's not right is it? Just because they have got a beard doesn't mean to say you can shoot them."

It's no longer Molson beer and apple pie, is it? Now the meme is mum and men with beards...

And stereotypes? Here's one: the mouthy lawyer for several of these Canadian youths bears the first name of Rocco. If Italy happens to look up from its frenzied building of mosques, it may register a complaint that someone noticed...

"Bye, bye, Haditha, Hello Canada..." and the sensory organ is sniffing around right now, trying to make the bad guys look good. Fortunately for Canadians, their intel people are permitted to intercept any phone call they wish.

6/04/2006 07:16:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

how much of the stuff generated by the left directly and explicitly produces terrorists?

Words have consequences.

Sedition protected by the First Amendment is still sedition. Young minds full of anti-Western, anti-capitalist, jihadi hatred amplified through guilty liberal self-loathing are easily led from talk to action.

6/04/2006 07:16:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

He has stated that to be his intent, previously.
One reason the Coup rumor may be so vibrant, it is believable 'cause it's expected.
The Iraqis see the results of our Policies, first hand, they cannot believe we could find it acceptable.
If Mr Kerry had been elected, in '04 who here would have claimed it a Victory for US?

Sometime the results of elections do matter. Even more so when & where there are no Institutions to maintain the inertia of governess.

6/04/2006 07:18:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...

Remember all the undercurrent commentary about President Bush as he was running for office in 1999.

1. He was a reluctant candidate.
2. He was not driven to become President.
3. No childhood pictures with President Kennedy
4. He didn't want to get into the tough political mud throwing.

Folks, he was the best man for the times.

The mediacrats and the Left can reacquire some authority and respect from the American citizenry if they are constructive in the goal of building a lasting peace. They can't seem to read the court though. Bush is giving them another chance (like the UN) to be relevant. But, blinded by BDS, they can’t seem to get past a Yalta Accord style solution. We don’t have to deal with a great power Stalin anymore.

The 2+ years remaining in Bush Presidency may be unforgiving to the Left in America if they continue to rant and rave. He is up to creating a lasting framework for victory and peace. The Left has to learn to be constructive to stay in the game.

I don’t think President Bush wants a One Party State in America – see above and all his attempts to work with those in the other aisle – but that is where we may be going.

Is that good?

Will it be good to have an unconstrained polity?

Will future historians blame President Bush or the Media or the Democratic Party leadership?

6/04/2006 07:19:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

The NEA does not like us, that's a fact.
"Why were people obsessed with the possible criminal behavior of a handful of Marines in Iraq and uninterested in why their wonderful universities and high schools could produce kids who would be interested in blowing up buildings, spreading poison gas, or maybe shooting down airliners with surface to air missiles."
Amen, or pbuh, depending on the outcome.

6/04/2006 07:21:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...


I'm perfectly willing to grant that something criminal may have happened in Haditha. That there are lots of people exercised about it. That individuals need to be punished severely for any crime they may have committed.

That doesn't necessarily mean that other issues far more serious don't also exist. I think Kaplan said it best when he noted that a lot of people were grateful to media for exposing Abu Ghraib then became disgusted when it was still on the front pages weeks afterward.

I'm not entirely happy with the idea that one story boots out the other just because. But then again I never believed that the media should keep a story above the fold on artificial life extension just because.

Ah well.

6/04/2006 07:21:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

Further afield, rat?
You will have to expend more energy than that to debunk the "conspiracy."

6/04/2006 07:27:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

An excerpt from Dalrymple's column:

"Young Muslim men in Britain—as in France and elsewhere in the West—have a problem of personal, cultural, and national identity. They are deeply secularized, with little religious faith, even if most will admit to a belief in God. Their interest in Islam is slight. They do not pray or keep Ramadan (except if it brings them some practical advantage, such as the postponement of a court appearance). Their tastes are for the most part those of non-Muslim lower-class young men. They dress indistinguishably from their white and black contemporaries, and affect the same hairstyles and mannerisms, including the vulpine lope of the slums. Gold chains, the heavier the better, and gold front teeth, without dental justification, are symbols of their success in the streets, which is to say of illicit enrichment.

Many young Muslims, unlike the sons of Hindus and Sikhs who immigrated into Britain at the same time as their parents, take drugs, including heroin. They drink, indulge in casual sex, and make nightclubs the focus of their lives. Work and careers are at best a painful necessity, a slow and inferior means of obtaining the money for their distractions."

He goes on to indict the media for feeding Muslim perceptions of discrimination and persecution.

"In coming to this conclusion, young Muslims would only be adopting the logic that has driven Western social policy for so long: that any difference in economic and social outcome between groups is the result of social injustice and adverse discrimination. The premises of multiculturalism don’t even permit asking whether reasons internal to the groups themselves might account for differences in outcomes.

The BBC peddles this sociological view consistently. In 1997, for example, it stated that Muslims “continue to face discrimination,” as witness the fact that they were three times as likely to be unemployed long-term as West Indians; and this has been its line ever since. If more Muslims than any other group possess no educational qualifications whatsoever, even though the hurdles for winning such qualifications have constantly fallen, it can only be because of discrimination—though a quarter of all medical students in Britain are now of Indian subcontinental descent. It can have nothing whatever to do with the widespread—and illegal—practice of refusing to allow girls to continue at school, which the press scarcely ever mentions, and which the educational authorities rarely if ever investigate. If youth unemployment among Muslims is two and a half times the rate among whites, it can be only because of discrimination—though youth unemployment among Hindus is actually lower than among whites (and this even though many young Hindus complain of being mistaken for Muslims). And so on and so on."

Some of the news reports following the latest roundups quote Muslims as feeling "targeted" for being Muslim. This doesn't sound good to me. I've seen this kind of inane logic coming from Palestine for too many years.

6/04/2006 07:29:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

rat, basing your world view on MSNBC and Newsweak explains much about your endless depressing negativity.

6/04/2006 07:32:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hope he indicts "education" as well as Media.
Same applies here wrt to
"Mexican Immigrants"
They come here as hard working, faithful people, and in one generation their children are turned into America Hating Trash.
I'm old enough to remember when they became freedom loving Americans.

6/04/2006 07:35:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

In Canada, no one was killed, there was no attack.
Not much news, there.
Was not even a car chase.

If it don't bleed...

Can the News drift to overkill, of course.
If a lost girl in Aruba can dominate the cable shows for over a year, what of mass murder, if that is what has occurred, or not.

OJ was not guilty, we all believe it.

How many viewers hours of "Defense Network", I mean the Military Channel, have an interest in Haditha? How many of Family Channel's "Seventh Heaven" viewers see the inner turmoil of the families involved?
Those shows showing the AR National Guard and others deploying, they now have added impact.

6/04/2006 07:41:00 AM  
Blogger Smacko said...

Man DR

You have more hats than you have moving goal post.

Two threads ago, you were moaning and bitching that our ROE in Iraq was too soft and signalled our impending DOOOOOOOOM!

Not you are pushing that our ROE is too harsh, and does not punish murder? So we are DOOOOOOOMED!

The only constant in your comments that last year is that we are DOOOOOMED!. Everything else is moveing goalpost and contradictory positions.

6/04/2006 07:47:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"It can have nothing whatever to do with the widespread—and illegal—practice of refusing to allow girls to continue at school, which the press scarcely ever mentions, and which the educational authorities rarely if ever investigate."
They are just like us, Praise be to Allah!

6/04/2006 07:48:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

I have no need to debunk conspiracy theories, not worth it, proving a negative to an unsubstantiated and unreliable rumors.

My world view is not shaped by Newsweek & MSNBC. Many others are, though, tens of millions each month.

That is the reality.
You want to engage in the debate, sway the future, that is the Scale required, if you are serious.

Get on it. Your Enemies already have.
Ted Turner started from from "scratch", bet you've already got a leg up on him.

6/04/2006 07:53:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Well, smacko, it seems evident that you believe Mr al-Sadr and the SCIRI ascension to power in Iraq represents Victory for US in the war with Radical Islam.

Now that that is on the table, your other positions make much more sensse.

6/04/2006 07:57:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"That is the reality.
You want to engage in the debate, sway the future, that is the Scale required, if you are serious.
The Scale Required:
Limbaugh has 20 million,
yet he has no illusions about his great power to influence events.
Which is a major factor in why he has 20 million listeners.
Reality Counts.

6/04/2006 07:59:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

smacko is on smack.

6/04/2006 08:00:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...

A couple of questions for the Media and others still immersed in a fading hologram:

The American economy (GDP) has grown by about 35% since CY2000 (Calendar Year). I have a distinct feeling that NO other economy has grown that much over the past six years. Did bin Laden and his likeminded Jihadi autocrats think that would be the end result of 9/11. What happens when (as I think is happening right now) we start to consume less resources in our fight against a weakening enemy. Is this a matrix point for determining the winning team in the GWOT?

One side has a highly trained military in, or adjacent to, ALL borders of the enemy bastions – with freedom and capability of movement. The other has to rely on fairly incompetent boobs who can’t figure out that electronic communications can be – shall we say – observed by the Great Satan. Anywhere in the world. Is this a matrix point for determining the winning team in the GWOT?

One side seems to be implementing TQL style constant process improvement practices to constantly enhance capability. The other side is doing what they have been doing for decades. Nobody likes slow improvement. It is not sexy. But, it is measurable and constant. And the changes are always in the right direction. Always better. Always pushing the ball forward. Kindof strangling for the other side. The Jihadis wander from one hell hole to another because they have to – they are reacting to our moves. Where is that damn Qaim Centered Caliphate anyway? Is this a matrix point for determining the winning team in the GWOT?

There appears to be a few shaped charges in play. Not by chumps in a garage who routinely blow themselves up – but by strategic long term thinkers. What else is the wall in the West Bank other than a shaped charge? What else was the pullout from Gaza? What else are the Anbar action and the stuff going on at the Iranian border? The shaping of those kinetic charges points back to the centers of terror. And, the Terror Turds are starting to fight amongst themselves. These Terror Turds are starting to kill one another in something easily defined as civil war but what are they accomplishing? Who is following the guiding light of the Terror Turd leadership? Hard to attack the Great Satan and the Little Satan and the minions of Satan when you have to squabble over a shrinking piece of the pie in the Turd World. However, other parts of the Third World are starting to develop. Is this a matrix point for determining the winning team in the GWOT?

And, we have not destroyed a culture, a people, a civilization.

6/04/2006 08:02:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

We send Billions per year to however the sad sacks are described/demeaned.
(we "have" to)
The Taliban Rebuilds in the land of the Deliverable Nukes.

6/04/2006 08:05:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Hell, doug, I'm about done buildin' my prototype of a delivery vehicle.

Video, Inet, Print, and E-Publishing.
So far so good.

cannoneer and smacko, will still be posting yesterday's news,
behind the curve, in an 1860's fantasy world.

6/04/2006 08:07:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Any credit here for Brevity?

6/04/2006 08:07:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hold your fire!
The MSM is out to get us!
God, I hate being us.
(not that anyone taught me to think that way)

6/04/2006 08:09:00 AM  
Blogger Smacko said...


Just wanted to point out that your
'Mr al-Sadr and the SCIRI' meme is only your latest sign of impending DOOOOOOOM!

Since all the other, older, versions of impending DOOOOOM! did not come to pass.

Was it the Iraqi army and thier lack of effectiveness at Falluja I?

Or I remember your carping about route Irish for months.

Two days ago it was a weak ROE that signalled DOOOOM!

Now its the murders and war crimes covered up by the ROE that signal our DOOOOM!

You seem to have mastered the fine art of speaking out of both sides of your mouth, and your arse, at the same time!


6/04/2006 08:09:00 AM  
Blogger Dymphna said...

Ace of Spades has a rundown on the resounding silence of the left blogosphere re the news from Canada...

A sense organ atrophied on one side, like those strange neurological deficits that are sometimes one of the sequelae of cerebral strokes: the patient is no longer capable of perceiving anything on the affected side -- not even his own body.

Anyway, Ace really combed the sites and basically came up empty. Canada's arrests do not exist in that part of the galaxy.

6/04/2006 08:10:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Smacko's learned to spell (or paste) DOOOOOMED!

6/04/2006 08:12:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Canucks are peace-loving people, Lady ~D, all of them.
Trust me.

6/04/2006 08:15:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Well, this racist still needs some rest, if you critters will quit being so interesting.
(Texas talk, in honor of the Faultless One) pbuh

6/04/2006 08:17:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Route Irish is still not secure, per General Casey.
I just moved on, to the "crisis de jur".

Where is Haditha but on the "Rat Line"? That subject's gotten to be "old news" though. Syrian Sanctuaries, more old news, wouldn't want to harp. The "old" problems have not been solved, it's just that they have faded in signifigence.

The town with the sand berm, what change there? Doubt it is secure.

Baghdad and nine other cities needed to be secured, said General Casey, the situation has deteriorated since then, not improved. Now Basra is engulfed by violence, two steps back, aye.

At least we know you stand with Mr al-Sadr, direct fire killer of US Marines, smacko, it's good to know the enemy, aye.

6/04/2006 08:22:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Syrian Sanctuaries are Secure:
What more could we ask?
...4 years out.

6/04/2006 08:27:00 AM  
Blogger John Samford said...

In the dogfight of perceptions, reality always wins.
Cannon cocker #4 is correct. The enemy prefers dates that are numeric.
06.06.06 is a natural. I just wonder if this was the big event or a back up or just part of a multi-strike.
Sometimes I wonder if the MSM is just feeding the croc. in hopes of being the last one eaten.

6/04/2006 08:33:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...


6/04/2006 08:35:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

"... Pace, the first Marine to serve as Joint Chiefs chairman, is no stranger to such combat emotions. To this day he keeps a photo on his desk at the Pentagon of the first Marine killed under his command when he was a platoon leader in Vietnam.

According to Barney Barnes, one of the men who served with Pace, Pace's first inclination was to call in the artillery "and bomb the heck out of that village." Barnes said that Pace kept his emotions in check and went ahead with a search of the village _ ultimately in vain _ for the sniper whose bullet had killed Cpl. Guido Farinaro.

6/04/2006 08:35:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Up the Chain, to the Ultimate Brain:

6/04/2006 08:39:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...


Can you define 'secure'?

Does the other side move jihadis through the border region and into western Iraq without noticable opposition? What is their attrition rate?

If you had your choice - based soley on personal safety and security - would you rather be a jihadi running the Syria/Iraq border or a Marine patrolling the river region?

If you had your choice - based solely on a vision of success - would you rather spend the next 2+ years in the Marine Corps or as a member of al-Zarqawi's jihadi army (or al-Sadr's mighty militia).

Some make the decision to die for the Jihadi Mistake. Others do not. Our adversary has complained about both the quality and quantity of recruits from sources like the Syrian border. I can tell you directly that the Marine Corps is not having recruiting or training problems. And, the Corps is not admitting more Cat IV's into the force. The Jihadis are recruiting sub-CatIVs.

6/04/2006 08:41:00 AM  
Blogger Peter UK said...

What we are seeing is Winter Soldier Redux,the enemy knows that the only battlefield it can win is in the American media.

6/04/2006 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

I would not serve in a catch and release Military.
Nor will my son if I can keep him from it.
...unless I am SURE he will remain at a computer consol for the US Air Force.
The Taliban continues to build, unmolested, funded by our petrodollars 100km east of where Bill Clinton was so derelect in leaving them unmolested.
Land of the Deliverable Nuclear Warheads, exporter to many.

6/04/2006 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

At least we know you stand with Mr al-Sadr, direct fire killer of US Marines, smacko, it's good to know the enemy, aye.


Arrggghhhh! Avast there, matey.

Attempting to paint smacko as a Sadr sympathizer is not going to have the chilling effect on conversation you hope it will.

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum.

6/04/2006 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

If I had my choice, I would have bombed the living shit out of the sanctuaries 3 years ago!

6/04/2006 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I see things differently. The theme of Haditha is that the US public is done supporting Iraq. No more reconstruction, no new ideas, just get the hell out of Dodge. That is probably on balance a good thing, because the return on our investment on Iraq is somewhere between a small loss and a large but sustainable one. Iraq is diverting our collective energy from much more critical areas. Iran is not that critical at this time. It is critical that we see that because Iran, managed and contained, is a nation state. Nation states can be controlled and made accountable. Islamic terrorism is not controllable, reformable or accountable. It can only be monitored, identified, and then dispatched.

Afghanistan is the nightmare in waiting if not addressed fast. We have in place a real coalition of the willing in AFGHANISTAN. The Taleban is back and there is a real danger that it can come make itself respectable to the Afghans who are questioning the progress of the country under US led occupation. Musharraf has a tenuous hold on Pakistan and if Afghanistan comes apart, Musharraf will be removed. Then you have total hell, two failed Islamic countries, and unaccountable nation states, one with a nuclear arsenal. You have narco money, warlords, the crazy of the crazies jihadists, and all in the worst territory on the planet. The atrocity in this story is the unforgivable lack of priority and attention to Afghanistan.

6/04/2006 08:52:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

December 7, 1941, til when?

6/04/2006 08:54:00 AM  
Blogger RattlerGator said...

Correction, desert rat: you just moved on to the "presumed" crisis de jure.

Very big difference.

6/04/2006 08:57:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

But Warizistan is hard to spell, 2164th, and it has that ugly "War" word in it.

6/04/2006 08:57:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

When asked twice, cannoneer, he demurred answer.
Staying the Course puts the people that Mr al-Sadr is represents firmly in control of Iraq's Federal Government.
Tha means the ISF.

Is that rum spiced?

Mr Bush supports Mr al-Sadr's Party's rise to Power, why would smacko's or anyone else's admission of the same feelings such be a foretold chillin' consequence?

Why would you think such a thing?

6/04/2006 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...


"Iran is not that critical at this time. It is critical that we see that because Iran, managed and contained, is a nation state. Nation states can be controlled and made accountable. Islamic terrorism is not controllable, reformable or accountable. It can only be monitored, identified, and then dispatched."

Iran has been directly implicated in murdering Americans for decades via terrorism. They do not act like a deterable nation state. They have not acted as a nation state for three decades. They are a portion of a barbarian region.

The leadership of Iran may go for the gusto. How can you attain greatness by doing small things? Greatness means your name is remembered. Many autocracies in the past (recent and distant) have reached for the brass ring of glory. Napolean, Hitler, Stalin, Xerxes, Darius, Alexander etc...

If we could 'contain' Iran why did we not? Can we contain them without the threat of military action? If so, why haven't we? Are we willing, or is it smart, to destroy their cities and population?

Just some questions.

6/04/2006 09:05:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...


Afghanistan has not been forgotten, except by the media, until recently.

What do you want done in Afghanistan that is not being done?

6/04/2006 09:05:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

Mr Bush supports Mr al-Sadr's Party's rise to Power

Sadr is not a good guy. Bush likes Sadr. Bush is not a good guy either.

That about right, rat?

6/04/2006 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...


perhaps, but no one, yourself included, explains why Syrian sanctuaries are remaining open,
why Iranian designed and componented shaped charges that are being deployeed,
why daily "militarily insignifgant" car bombings as well as the infiltration of the Security Services in Iraq by radical Islamists
are not a crisis.

If they are not, I'd certainly be less concerned. I mean if it's all part of the plan...

6/04/2006 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

No, it means that US Policy supports a Bad Guy
It means you and I support Mr al-Sadr.
In means the Bush Doctrine, the '02 State of the Union are empty words, that's all.

It means
Radical Islam is not the Enemy

Beyond that, don't mean nothin'

6/04/2006 09:15:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

The US does have a bad history with Iran including the 1988 incident where the USS Vincennes pursued Iranian gunboats into Iranian waters directly under the path of Iran air flight 655. During the battle, the commercial Airbus A300B2 took off from Bandar Abbas heading to Dubai. The USS Vincennes immediately began tracking this unidentified aircraft. The Vincennes, using the Aegis combat system decided the passenger plane was hostile and it was destroyed. A similar incident happened with a Korean airline with a US congressman being shot down by Russian warplanes. The point being that both tragic incidents were controlled because there were accountable parties. Iran is still an accountable party.

6/04/2006 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...


Do you all realize that we could probably mobalize aircraft museums to rebuild a B29 squadron or two. That squadron could level cities in the Arab world. Israel flew right over Damascus to wipe out some Terror Turd farm. Their military training is abysmal.

Wretchard's Third Conjecture is always available - but it would be a very sad day when your grandson asks you why you scream for leveling population centers in a conflict such as we find ourselves in. And, leveling those centers with our new fighting (rebuilt) B29s would definitely result in a very long war with many converts to the cause - not all Islamofascists. Would it have been smart to level Berlin as an answer to reoccupying the Rhineland?

6/04/2006 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger Ari Tai said...

re: (civilization's practice of) continuous improvement & media's role being off-limits.

Hmmm. Mr. Rumsfeld has not been shy about bringing up the topic (of the MSM being unable to defend itself against being a tool of the jihadis). Many others have been having the same conversation. It's pretty clear where the American "center" is at (in terms of Rumsfeld's faith in it). And we know too well how easy it is to blackmail the MSM (be it Saadam and CNN or their inability to deal with a few cartoons).

What is an appropriate response, and tactic? Especially if the majority of the populace (and voters) seem to see through the enemy's use of the MSM?

If the West spoke with one voice about terror (as we did in past eras about slavery and piracy), would it save lives? Whose? Should we care that most of the lives saved would be jihadis, their (non-western) victims, and would-be jihadi-s? Is the Left so blind they don't realize who they are killing, or is their nature (and a bit of self-hatred) showing through?

We have been doing much better of late at denying the fascists the use of our tools that they can not build for themselves (banks, telephony, internet, etc.). Do we care enough to find a way to separate our "in the family" arguments from the discordance that gives hope to the fascists? In the old days the arguments used to stop at our borders. All would stand behind the leader of the moment, be it a Truman or Eisenhower, irrespective of their major (and otherwise fought to the death) policy differences. Granted, many on the Left think of themselves as citizens-of-the-world and embrace the anarchy that this implies.

I'd wager the Left doesn't see it (the blood on their hands). They've yet to admit their culpability for the 100 million untimely and often horrible deaths due to communism (to say nothing of the waste of several billion lives spent in unproductive efforts, rather than improving all of our lives - the difference between free-markets w/ individual choice and central-planning w/ its implicit slavery).

6/04/2006 09:23:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Cannoneer, I read your posts and based on that do not believe you are satisfied with the progress in Afghanistan. I would like to see the coalition presence raised, the opium trade irradiated and OBL captured. More US troops are needed. Surely you cannot be happy with the events occurring in Afghanistan nor the priority it receives from this administration or the MSM.

6/04/2006 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...


My point is that the militant and idiology driven Iran does not behave as a nation state should.

They are not deterable in the cold war sense.

Why are they pushing the envelop now, as they have repeatedly in the past? How have they been deterred? How do you deter them?

I don't think your point is proven. I don't think you can point to any positive affect of deterance for three decades when speaking about Iran or North Korea or pre-war Iraq.

6/04/2006 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...


6/04/2006 09:25:00 AM  
Blogger Mike H. said...

The Democrats shooting themselves in their brain housing group doesn’t help the Republicans turn their hearing aids back on. We’re in the middle of a war and we have a peacetime legislative branch. The executive isn’t doing very good with his border policy either.

The internet is a distributed computing project (witness Seti@Home and Einstein@Home, et al.) We need a project for distributed political guidance.

6/04/2006 09:30:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

not after the War was over, but from the video I've seen of the Fall of Berlin, there was not much left, regardless.

Iraq was never defeated, it's Armies were or they dispersed via desertion. But not the People, they were liberated. Shia, Kurd & Sunni alike.
The Sunni, though, desired no liberation for themselves or the others.
Our window for militarily closing out the Sunni Insurection is closing, success in standing up the representitive government will see to that. No one in Iraq, friend or foe, really wants US to stay.
US Leaders will not even admit to the strategic importance of a long term relationshup with Iraq & it's military.
Mr Bush wanting to put those decisions and discussions on the next Administration.

6/04/2006 09:30:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I spent enough time on SAC and TAC bases to appreciate the tremendous effort of managing the Cold War. This was the most impressive military achievement of all time. Never have so many done so much to keep the other side from doing something so stupid that it would have ended civilization. I am without doubt that we can contain a minor military power that has no national freinds or allies.

6/04/2006 09:31:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

Who is the enemy, rat?

6/04/2006 09:33:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

That's the question I've been asking for over a year.

By law it is Saddam and the perps of 9-11.

Saddam's in the Dock, waiting to be recalled to power or hung while the 9-11 perps have found Sanctuary in Warizistan.

The JCS, they are unsure of who the enemy is, at least in Ramadi.

So only the Administration can say, for sure. Call Tony Snow.

6/04/2006 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...


I would like to see the coalition presence raised

Canadians at Kandahar, British at Lashkar Gah, Dutch at Tirin Khot

opium trade irradiated
More disgruntled farmers for the Taliban to recruit.

OBL captured
October surprise.

More US troops are needed
How many more? To do what? To be logistically supported how?

It ain't easy maintaining armies from North America in Central Asia.
Remembering the fate of previous armies, keeping the foot print small makes evacuation easier.

6/04/2006 09:46:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Good points all Mr. Boomer, but your last is the one that bothers me.

6/04/2006 09:49:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

The perps of 9/11 are dead, rat. Which law makes them the enemy?

6/04/2006 09:51:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...

Desert Rat:
You use VDH arguments for Total War. But, you are not reading VDH's discussions on the conflict at hand. He states categorically and repeatedly that we are winning decisively.

Do you honestly think that most Iraqis - or most Arabs or followers of Islam - think that they will not get destroyed if our eyes turn their way after a serious provocation? Some of them may think they can wait till January 20, 2009. Most probably are coming to realize that Bush doesn't really give a damn about the screaming American Street - as defined by the MSM and odd holographic cities of NYC and LA and San Francisco. Cities that want anti-terrorism funds to pay for child welfare and police overtime at concerts.

Give me a single example of anyone detering Iran from murder and terror. The leadership happens to sit on some chair in Tehran, but they do not live in the realm of Iran. Radical Islam is not national. it is transnational and aggressive. And, now they seem rather end of timesy attitude.

As I have stated repeatedly - we can destroy the region when we want to. They may push us to that - but our own culture will look back at our failure to preclude that solution with disgrace. Intelligent folks do not look kindly at Neville Chamberlain and the 3rd or 4th or whatever Frech Republic. Had German aggression been halted with a measured conflict there may not have been a WWII. Let us try that solution first.

Anyway, Islamofascism will attack soft targets before hard ones - hence the attempt on Canada. They are making the false assumption that the rest of the West is soft and chewy. Me thinks they will find the hard edge of a sword at their throats when they succeed in blowing something in Berlin up.

6/04/2006 09:53:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I may want to add one more comment about the disgruntled opium farmers. Now if we are not the world power and most experienced country on the planet in paying farmers not to grow things, what kind of people are we?

6/04/2006 09:53:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...


The technique and craft is "plausible deniabilty". The US and Russians, Israelis, French and yes Iranians use it. The Iranians use it in their support of various groups because they do not want to suffer the consequences. They are playing the world to get attention and power on the cheap.

6/04/2006 09:58:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Authorization for Use of Force,
14 Sept '01
Joint Resolution 29, if my memory serves.

Gives the President carte blanche war making authority, totally at his discresion, no further Resolutions needed.

Get up to speed, cannoneer, you are way behind the engagement curve.

6/04/2006 10:05:00 AM  
Blogger woof111 said...

which YOU may discount as a reliable source, but tens of millions of US do not.

Apparently tens of millions believe that the US government flew the planes into the WTC, or faked it. The problem is not that there are moonbats, the problem is that our educational system has failed to develop the kind of critical thinking that marks a civilization. Soon we will be like the Middle East saying to all problematic events... The Jews did it.

6/04/2006 10:07:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

Undead ideas Dep't: Buying the opium crop

if we try to buy the Afghan opium crop, Afghan poppy farmers will grow two crops, one to sell to us and the other to sell to the heroin manufacturers

6/04/2006 10:09:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...


We are playing the same game. And winning.

Our presence in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan force Iran to expend resources they could have otherwise allocated. The Civil War in the Palestinian territories is forcing Iran to expend resources they could have otherwise. The impending UN sanctions - with American and British forces covering the borders or Iran - will have affect.

We will not attack Iran. Iran will not become a nuclear power. And, the jihad movement will die on the vine. All without carpet bombing. What a joy.

Imagine the Lefty Ranters after the War Party becomes the Peace Party. They should get in the game, but their BDS is too far advanced. The media should get their facts from the ground and from the decision makers before they are subsumed by competition - like that offered by this Blog. Who are you listenning to - Wretchard or Paul Krugman? Just asking...

6/04/2006 10:11:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

That is the War Authorization that makes the NSA intercepts required and the gives Authorization for them.
If one listens to Mr Gonzalez.

6/04/2006 10:16:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Gunmen kill 21 commuters near Baghdad
By YAHYA BARZANJI, Associated Press Writer
Sun Jun 4, 7:22 AM ET

SULAIMANIYAH, Iraq - Gunmen killed 21 people — many of them high school students — after dragging them off buses northeast of Baghdad, officials said. Four Sunni Arabs were spared and the dead were all Shiites or Kurds.

Serwan Shokir, the mayor Qara Tappah, said the shooting occurred in the early morning after three mini buses left his town headed for Baqouba — located 35 miles northeast of Baghdad. One person was wounded.

He said the gunmen dragged 26 people from the buses, separated four Sunni Arabs from the group, and shot the rest.

Shokir said 12 of the dead were high school student and of those killed, 19 were Shiite Turkomen and two were Kurds. The students were headed to another town to take exams.

6/04/2006 10:20:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...


My last comment so I do not overstay my welcome. I read and listen to those that interest me and make me think. My education, training, discipline and instincts make me sceptical and questioning. My experience with violence was chastening. I wish it were so with others. I do not look for a fight nor do I avoid one if necessary. All of my decisions are based on winning and achieving my goals at the lowest possible cost. This has served me well personally. I admire leadership well applied .I prefer statesmanship to its' failure which is war. If you think it best to carpet bomb someone, I doubt your enthusiasm would extend past the actual experience.

6/04/2006 10:25:00 AM  
Blogger pete speer said...

Some clarifications.

al-Sadr is a renegade Shi'ite alleged Mullah without sufficient educational credentials to succeed his father.

There is some indication that his forces are being supported by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, which is, strangely enough because the are Persian Shia, also supplying Sunni and Ba'athist insurgents.

The most influential Iraqi Arab Shi'ite is the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani in Najaf. He is in favor of the ill cobbled together Iraqi state. al-Sistani's influence extends to the Iranian monasteries, but not vice versa.

A major part of U.S. policy shortcomings was the result of the Tehran Embassy occupation. Our policy makers confused the Shia Arabs with those in Persia and saw a strong link between the two. There was not and never has been. The Iranians had to corrupt Shia theology to work out how Shia -- which posits the coexistence of the civil and religious sector -- could be used to overthrow the Shah.

Which left the American planners the untidy -- impossible -- task of attempting to put a unitary democracy in place in Iraq.

Three strong factions, no external threat, nothing in Moslem religious or secular political theory on which to base this -- is it any wonder that the necessary conditions for a democracy have not been met, let alone for a Democracy based on Muslim precepts.

The Ottomans recognized the factional nature of Mesopotamia. Post World War I the British, protecting their oil interests, cobbled together and enforced by their presence a sort of parliamentary rule, importing a foreign Arab ruler to do so.

Repressing the Kurds to develop the northern field was required.. Post WWII the country fell into the hands of the military and then the nominal Ba'athist dictator Saddam.

Americans being a missionary people liked the notion that we were there, post-Saddam to put in place something that we had in our history never experienced -- a unitary Democracy.

Since our schools do not teach History any more, a brief primer is in order. After Yorktown and the departure of loyalists and British forces, the Continental Congress adopted the Articles of Confederation which permitted thirteen states to be nominally joined. That was as close as they could get at the time.

Thereafter, in the intersts of currency, commerce and the lot as well as facing French and British superpower interest in little America, a Convention met to better determine the division of authority between the individual states and the central Government.

Exceeding their original authority, the members drafted and subsequently approved, and the States adopted, the Constitution and the first ten amendments.

Thus the Federal system endures. We have jumped the gun in Iraq to fulfill our domestic political agenda. Their Provinces are our States. Until each can see the the necessity to join together, there can not be -- even with superglue -- a Federal, let alone a unitary Democracy.

We chose not to understand that. We also refused to believe that western, Judeo-Christian Democracy could be painted by the numbers into a Muslim milieu.

The Turks understood that.

In terms of absolute years, the Muslims are in the fourteenth century of their existence. In the Christian era fourteenth century Western Europe was an intolerant mess, with duchies, principalities and kingdoms, with or without papal control warring for gain. The Reformation and the Enlightenment which produced the philosophers, who could turn the ethic into secular political philosophy, were a long time away.

What in the name of all that is rational, let alone holy, gives us the chutzpah to rnforce our secular religion of Democracy on Iraq or any other Muslim country?

The time, as Shakespeare wrote, is out of joint.

Only a country as righ as ours (or with purchasers of our national Debt in place) could afford such folly. Only a citizenry which is still living the missionary experience could buy into such a program.

Justify our adventure in therms of power politics. Yes. Bamboozle the people to believe we are exporting Democracy at any cost. No.

There is a weird parallel between our misionary efforts and those of al-Queda, is there not?

6/04/2006 10:43:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...

Concur, 2164th...

I think you misunderstood me.

We don't need to take this conflict to a Total War like WWII or the Civil War.
I think the current Mullocracy in Iran can be dumped without a shot.
I do not think the Islamic World must be barbarian.
Iraq is a theater in the war, not the war
Our actions preclude carpet bombing

Long term and just peace is the target of this phase in the conflict. The actual fighting is basically over. The current idiots blowing up our troops are the same kind of morons that kept up the good fight for Imperial Japan till the 1960’s. They are not getting anywhere.

Patience is the key…

I am concerned about the self-blinded media in the US and the self-deluded media in the Middle East. But, I think neither will survive the Bush Presidency in their current state. Their complete failure at understanding and reporting on this conflict is abysmal. Confidence in the media is below 20%. They are simply too dumb to figure out even campaigns in this conflict – not to mention strategy. They can’t even get specific battles straight. But, they can spell and use adjectives. That is why you, I, and the rest read The Belmont Club. And, that is a sad fact of life.

Anyone betting on CBS, the BBC, or TruthOut???

6/04/2006 10:46:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

In regards 9;53, boghie.

I do not see the Iraqi Theater as the core of the Mohammedan Wars, certainly not in regards the 14 Sept Resolution / Authorization.

I understand the "democratization" theory and support it, but it requires a well managed transition to democracy.
That is what has not been well managed in Iraq, the process was not designed to provide the desired outcome, IMO. Due to a lack of Civilian support from within the Federals, themselves.

Saddam is in the Dock, Osama and the Doctor are not. They are in the Lands of Pakistan, with 48 nuclear warheads, armed & ready but just out of reach.

That is where a "real" War ought be waged. I believe.

6/04/2006 10:52:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

"The actual fighting is basically over."

Over for whom?

6/04/2006 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger Bob Smith said...

Harry Truman was greeted by the Washington elite with a condescending scorn when the ‘funny man with the little hat’ became President. Unbeknownst to all of us, it took a frat boy from hell, so to speak, to lead a response, with the condescension coming this time from the Leftist elite. History has not yet reached a verdict, but whatever the outcome, Bill Clinton missed his place by a New York mile.

Agree with Cannoneer about 06-06-06. Big score for Canadian police. My thought was that the northern border would be more vulnerable than the southern border because who in their right mind would risk being caught by the Mexican police? [fuggetaboutit]

6/04/2006 11:19:00 AM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

9:53--US government has been losing its edge in this department lately. By the way, we have always been second best to the French. THEY know how to treat their farmers right, and the Japanese also. There is no solution to poppy production--wipe it out in one country, will 'pop' up in another. Would have to pay the whole world not to grow--not even USA is that fat.

6/04/2006 11:28:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Not for the boys in Ramadi or Haditha, that's for sure. Baghdad either, trish, Seems Basra has made the list as well.

Definately not for individual Iraqi.
Build all the schools you want, if a kid cannot take the bus to it, for fear of ethnic execution, well, someone's dropped the ball.

Do we admit to the fumble or shout at the Ref that the other team cheats.

When there is no Ref but ourselves.

6/04/2006 11:33:00 AM  
Blogger Texas Gal said...

Speaking of the timing of the British terror cell bust and the Canadian terror cell bust, my first thought was how effective that NSA phone number database is and just how many countries are involved? Especially since these Canadians are natives. Probably not a coincidence that 2 Muslims were arrested on terror charges in Atlanta, Georgia in March, huh?

6/04/2006 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Mr al-Sadr may be a Mullah, Imam or just the son of a Mullah's dog, but he meets with Mr Sistani and stands in a secure and commanding posititon over many Iraqi Ministries, as well as extending his influences over the balance.

Some say he is but a buffoon, but he's certainly been successful, for a buffoon, if indeed he is.

6/04/2006 11:52:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

Just heard on Fox News a really interesting short interview with a Canadian Islamic leader. He said he knew one of the men, and described him as someone who came into a nice, quiet Sufi mosque and converted it into a radical Whabbist site, delivering sermons "that even Muslims found offensive."

Interesting how the MSM can find out about a nonexistant urination on a Koran and report it but not say anything about a hotbed of Islamic hatred right here in North America.

6/04/2006 12:00:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

"Do we admit to the fumble or shout at the Ref that the other team cheats."

Those bastards. How unsportsmanlike. Who let THEM onto the field?

As I was getting at: If it isn't over for the other guy, it isn't over.

That's all there is to it.

6/04/2006 12:01:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

That retired USAF Col linked to yeaterday, the War Gamer, he was sure we were already active in Iran, covertly.

Hope he is right.

Said Mr Bush would have to supply proof of Iranian complicity.
That is totally incorrect.

So it could make someone wonder what War Gamers really do know.

6/04/2006 12:03:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

It’s not three tons of explosives it’s three tons of ammonium nitrate to make a bomb it needed to be mixed with…

This was going to be a huge bomb.

6/04/2006 12:08:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

The Ok City Murrow Bldg bomb was around 4000 to 4800 lb of Amonium Nitrate based explosives. I looked that up to run a computer simulation of it just a few days ago.

So the Canadian bomb was to be "only" 1/3 larger than the Ok City bomb. And since these guys seemed to be operating in an urban environment, they probably did not have a good place to keep the fertilizer for long and thus planned to use it all at once.

6/04/2006 12:14:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

"That retired USAF Col linked to yeaterday, the War Gamer, he was sure we were already active in Iran, covertly."

I'm sure he's right.

But doing what?

That's the thing.

And the colonel doesn't know.

6/04/2006 12:16:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

It's mixed with an accelerator, like diesel fuel.

Then an ignition charge is needed

The explosive force is in the Chicken s**t. About 12,000 fps sometimes less.

Big boom, lots of concussion.
McVeigh had a ton in OK City

6/04/2006 12:18:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

rwe is most likely correct as to the quanity in the OK City attack. I was working from sometimes faulty memories.

6/04/2006 12:20:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

McVeigh and Niclos could not get theirs to fire, not 'til Nichols cane back from the Philipines, better trained.

6/04/2006 12:25:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...


Somethin's aiways better than nothin'.

I'd hope that it would be in the most capable hands available.

Doin' what can be done.

6/04/2006 12:28:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Desert rat: That is one of the things I do at work, run simulations of what happens if so many pounds of what kind of explosive goes off in a given spot.

I expect to be doing a lot more of that kind of analysis in the future. It has become a popular What If for the Fed Govt in recent years for some strange reason.

6/04/2006 12:31:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

My grandfather and some of the other older farmers here used to blow tree stumps out of the ground with small fertilizer bombs. Not cutting edge technology. Another reason to be angry with the muzzies and the McVeigh types--honest folk can't go about their legitimate business anymore. We can't even get the old cyanide squirrel bombs anymore--man, did they work good.

6/04/2006 12:34:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

rwe, The velocity is about right, isn't it? It would depend alot on the particular product and purity.

We used it to crater roads and remove trees, flatten hill tops and such. 80 - 120 pds packs a wallop. Tons, of it, that would be quite a bang.

6/04/2006 12:35:00 PM  
Blogger heather said...

Fact is, quietly, people in responsible positions know what is what. A relative of mine met a young fella in the Calgary Airport, who was travelling to Toronto. It seems that he had tried to get a job in the oil fields of Alberta... and he had loads of qualifications: engineer, experience... in the Middle East, Kurdistan, Iran, and his name was "Mohammed" something.
Gee. Guess what. Not one oil company followed up on the CV he sent around. As another businessman said to me: who would be crazy enough to hire a guy with a Middle East name, in the biggest OIL PROJECT on the North American continent.

It is so great to know that reality is important to the "underslass" outside of the media/elite/university cultures.

There is indeed hope. And awhile back, Wretchard pointed out that maybe this is an advantage to us: that the Enemy reads the NYT etc., and therefore makes very stupid judgement calls.

Also, we beat ourselves up over our inability to 'understand' other cultures: like, courage to a jihadi is to wander around with no armour, daring to risk his life... and our guys are professional, with lots of armour, and equipment... and smarts.

6/04/2006 12:52:00 PM  
Blogger trangbang68 said...

In the Atlanta Airport yesterday I saw hundreds of people break into spontaneous applause when a group of soldiers deplaned.Maybe the poison Koolaid of the lamestream media isn't catching on.
Michelle Malkin ran side by side photos of UK Times picture alleging Marine victims in Haditha with the same photo in reality,a photo of Shiite fishermen slain in Haditha months before by Sunni trash.Pravda couldn't have done that better in the day.

6/04/2006 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

SINGAPORE, June 3 — Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told a gathering of defense experts here on Saturday that Iran was “one of the leading terrorist nations in the world.”

Mr. Rumsfeld also questioned why Russia and China would allow Iran to participate in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a regional organization that includes Russia, China and Central Asian nations.

Iran has observer status in the group, and the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is expected to attend a summit meeting that the organization is holding in Shanghai this month.

“It strikes me as passing strange that one would want to bring into an organization that says it is against terrorism one of the leading terrorist nations in the world: Iran,” Mr. Rumsfeld said.

His pointed comments were made at an important moment in American diplomacy. This week, the Bush administration reversed a refusal to hold direct talks with Iran that had lasted decades. The administration said it was willing to join European allies in negotiations over Iran’s nuclear program if Teheran first suspended its efforts to enrich uranium.

Mr Rumsfeld, speaking truth to power, once again.
Since it's from the NYTimes, I won't bother with a link.

6/04/2006 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

"... Singapore’s prime minister, Lee Hsien Loong ...
... Last month, President Ahmadinejad visited Indonesia where, Mr. Lee noted, he received a hero’s welcome from Indonesian students.

“This showed how successfully Iran has portrayed itself as a leading Muslim country, its nuclear program as a project in which Muslims worldwide should take vicarious pride, and the issue as a nationalist struggle,” Mr. Lee said. “We have to refocus on the core issue, which is nuclear proliferation and Iran’s obligations under the Nonproliferation Treaty.” ..."

Which is strikingly similar to what the Iraqi Foreign Minister said, last week.

Again the NYC source that can't be named in public.

6/04/2006 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

What the Iraqi foreign minister "said" last week is that, um, Iraq would very much like a nuclear program, too.

And, hey, who doesn't?

6/04/2006 01:45:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

No reason why not, trish.
Well within the International Treaty, what Iran says it wants.

Those fellows that "deceieved" the IAEA, all out of power, the untrustworthy dogs.

Time fo a new slate, more than half the World will agree.
They already do.

Even Mr Maliki.

6/04/2006 01:56:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

"Well within the International Treaty, what Iran says it wants."


6/04/2006 02:09:00 PM  
Blogger snowonpine said...

As part of my job, I spent part of each day, for 25 looong years, reading and searching through the MSM--NYT.WP.Chicago Trib,Boston Globe, LAT, AP,UPI. Reuters, foreign news sources, a very few more conservative sources--the WSJ, WTimes--TV news, government documents and reports, legislation and legal documents and, in recent years, web sites,etc. Through comparing these various sources it became very obvious to me that the MSM was turning road signs, used selective blindness, put their collective thumbs on the scales, call it what you will; anyone who relies exclusively on the MSM for their news gets a highly distorted, very selective, filtered and partisan view of the world, despite the MSM's claims of objectivity. I'm just hoping that enough people catch on soon enough so the MSM can't convince everyone that this is Vietnam redux.

6/04/2006 02:26:00 PM  
Blogger Bob Smith said...

Wretchard writes: So the question again is how much of the stuff generated by the left directly and explicitly produces terrorists? Or is that subject off limits? I don't think it should be.

2164th writes: the subject is off limits.

The biggest obstacle to formulating the ‘subject’ is defining ‘Left’ and, more importantly, segregating Left thought from the Democratic Party platform. Read the anti- position. The activists on the Left reject the socialist stigma. They now represent human rights and typically a concern for environmental issues - IOW issues that are not easily or directly addressed by market forces [despite CATO arguments]. Aside from a Ward Churchill or Noam Chomsky incident, who represents the intellectual core of the Left - academia? - news media? The opponent must be more clearly defined because the institutional shell, the Democratic Party, is transforming.

The issue however remains very interesting because I suspect that the intellectuals are taking cover since the current geopolitical context is not conducive.

An ideology premised on tolerance has limits. Self correction is required. That is occurring. And the screaming is intense.

6/04/2006 02:34:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

"...But in demonizing all American soldiers in response to allegations that a few Marines killed 24 Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha last year, Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki displayed a glaring lack of leadership. Saying these attacks against civilians were a "daily phenomenon," that coalition soldiers "crush them with their vehicles and kill them just on suspicion," he insulted all the Americans and the soldiers from other nations who put their lives on the line every day trying to bring democracy to his embattled country. Suggesting the frequency of these attacks on civilians would determine how long the United States remains in Iraq is as presumptuous as it is foolish -- his government would not survive without U.S. troops trying to keep the lid on the violence. We're there to help the Iraqis build a working, representative government; anti-American demagoguery won't advance that goal. ..."

From Chitown's Sun Times

They do not say why anti-Americanisn won't help.
It's the one thing they ALL agree on, remember the Cairo Conference, last November. Resistence to Occupation is legitimate.

6/04/2006 02:39:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Haven't read all, but did we AGAIN go from a call to bomb sanctuaries to GENOCIDE in 5 minutes at 9:19 AM?
Sorry, but that one always perterbs me as being seriously disturbed, discussion-wise.

6/04/2006 02:42:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Nuri Kamal al-Maliki "
Is that the ABC News CEO?
Those guys are not on our side!
Down with the MSM!

6/04/2006 02:47:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Resistance to the Elite is Futile.
But I ain't done yet.

6/04/2006 02:49:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_1 said...

Queers,fags,cab drivers,Meat Science majors at the University of Nebraska, as well as Canadians that collect tons of explosives are just "friends" we have never really connected with.
There is a universal understanding that we must rediscover, nurture, and allow to blossom so we all can go forward.
It begins within each of us,usually as a gaastrointestinal problem which is corrected with a theraputic "cleansing"
Lets use pray that Fleet enema company stays in business.

6/04/2006 02:52:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

1:45 PM
When I was a lad, my dad gave me a book:
"Our Friend the Atom"
(Haliburton Press)
"Nuri Kamal al-Maliki"
Needs Friends Too!

6/04/2006 02:53:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

2:52 Habu:
You'll have to settle for a Chinese Herbal Substitute.
Holistic Herbals in the New New Economy

6/04/2006 02:56:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Is that "Diversity" or Diverticulitus you got there, Professor?

6/04/2006 02:58:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Foggy Bottom in Control:
Turds Blossom into Mushroom Clouds

6/04/2006 03:01:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/04/2006 03:04:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Mr Rumsfeld is too damn old to "get" the New Paradigm.

6/04/2006 03:04:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

That "Culture of Violence", habu, we'll just have to contain it.
Generals speaking of brawling, and liking it, and shooting people, can't be having that, now.
That's just not US.

The water is just pullin' away from the beach, like in Thailand.
Big wave's acomin'
To no good effect.

Gonna flush out those antisocial attitudes.

6/04/2006 03:06:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

12:00 PM rwe:
What would Steve Emerson Know?

6/04/2006 03:18:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

11:52 AM
Maybe he's Misunderestimated?
That's spooky here's Mookie 3 years later.
Misunderestimated again.

6/04/2006 03:21:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The efforts of the Bush Team to expand democracy in the Mid East, that's why we remain in Iraq?
Wjile in Eyhpt our tribute taker...

"...The culprit here, Ms. Ismail insists, isn't simply the regime but Gamal Mubarak, who despite avowals to the contrary is setting himself up as his father's successor. "What provoked Gamal," she explains, "is that he and Nour are the same age, but Nour's been elected to parliament twice, he takes buses, he takes the metro, he knows what's happening with the people. He did not just say, 'Down with Mubarak.' He did more: He offered himself as an alternative."

It's partly for this reason that Ms. Ismail can hardly account for why Mr. Bush would receive Gamal so cordially, even as she says she never once has been personally contacted by Francis Ricciardone, the current U.S. ambassador. "Everyone is asking what Gamal did in Washington: Were we sold out in exchange for something?" She also notes that despite the billions the U.S. provides Egypt, the Mubarak regime continues to stoke anti-American sentiment in its press campaigns against Mr. Nour. "They call my husband, 'Nour, the spy of the U.S.' 'Nour, the friend of Rice.' 'Nour, the child of Madeleine Albright.' "

"With Friends Like This
Bush betrays Egypt's democrats, for what?

6/04/2006 03:25:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

bob smith 11:19
Unfortunately you think wrong this time:
Bill West @ Roggios:
June 02, 2006
Terror Threat On Southern Border - There Are Already Cases To Prove It
Thanks to IT expert and CT Blog regular reader Timothy Thompson, we learn the deportation case in Seattle against an African Muslim Imam is proving to be yet another indicator the US - Mexican border poses a very real threat to the Nation’s counter-terrorism efforts. ___Link___

6/04/2006 03:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Trish 11:09 AM
Maybe that MSM Lady, Ms Dozier would know?

6/04/2006 03:29:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_1 said...

The culture of violins . Sweet dulcet sounds. Why should we contain it.
Chairman Mao had a wonderful program. The One Hundred Flowers.
It is time for us to allow a hundred flowers to blossom and then, as Mao did, harvest those whose aroma is not in harmony with what we "feel" is best for all mankind. It is not always the scientific thinking of a Herbert Spencer as illuminated in his study of "First Principles" but rather the metaphysical,transendentalism of what was really thrown off the "Tallahachee Bridge"

6/04/2006 03:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

" Bill Clinton missed his place by a New York mile."
Allowing those Taliban Training Ground Sanctuary down there was UNFORGIVABLE.
100 km East is A-OK
Lost in Space

6/04/2006 03:32:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

My wife went to HS in Palm Springs With Bobby Gentry!
...but her name then was Bobby Meyers!
But that's water under the bridge.
In Palm Springs, no less.

6/04/2006 03:35:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

One of the miscreants has been here for six years spreading the contagion, having come in prior to the post 9-11 border crack down, that was sure to come, but didn't.

"... The investigation leading to Kourani’s prosecution and conviction, that was conducted by ICE and the FBI, revealed that Kourani’s brother was the chief of security for Hezbollah in Lebanon. ..."

6/04/2006 03:37:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Those guys are... different than the "really" bad guys.
I forgot which ones they be now.
Life is so confusing these days.

6/04/2006 03:39:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Bobby played Boogie Woogie on the Piano during recess.
Muzzies play with matches.
Under Bridges.

6/04/2006 03:43:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

"Maybe that MSM Lady, Ms Dozier would know?"


6/04/2006 03:49:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Home Grown, Home Groan

Yes Wretchard you have to love MSM. The new slant is Home Grown because that is the only thing they notice about the latest crop of Islamic terrorists. They must have repeated it ten times on ABC Nightly. They cannot bring themselves to say they are Muslim, because we all know they are Canadian youth. Their DNA cannot possible be the link, it must be something else, God willing.

6/04/2006 03:53:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Here is British exMP that voted to send England's military into Iraq.
Seems he thinks that decision a grave error, now.

Sunday Times online

"Iraq looks a little more like Vietnam every day"

His observations are all reasonable, some may be wrong, but reasonable. The "Sunday Times" reaches tens of millions.
Right or Wrong.

6/04/2006 03:54:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This forum uses VDH arguments about war.
Mr. Rubin thinks he is wrong about Libya, even though Victor's life was saved there.
VDH knows more about the "Immigration Problem" than ANYONE on this forum.
But on that issue, he is largely ignored here so that others can be demeaned for demuring from the Great Global W Project.

6/04/2006 03:56:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

It was the same in London, home grown.

6/04/2006 03:57:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Listen up, all you dissed Republican Conservatives, the latest memoranda from MSM says the "Ban on gay marriage" is to reignite the base. Please plan accordingly.

6/04/2006 03:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"The perps of 9/11 are dead, rat."
It's a new outfit accross the Border, 'Rat.
Ask Mullah Omar. pbuh

6/04/2006 04:03:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Ignorance is bliss, doug

6/04/2006 04:05:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_1 said...

One over arching question that appears to be an apparition is why so many good honest 'mericans cannot underderstand J Robby Oppenheimer, "Opie" to his friends when he said:

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I mean are we that deficient in our Vishnu and Bhagavd-Gita that we would allow that to go unchallenged by Burl Ives "Goober Peas?" I think not, therefore I roll my own.

6/04/2006 04:06:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

or is bliss ingnorance

6/04/2006 04:06:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

3:57 PM
That just wiped the WOT and the so-called immigration problem right out of my head when I heard that.
Damn those Gays, damn them all to Hell!
That's Now my first priority.
I'm off to get petitions signed!

6/04/2006 04:06:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Mr Rove has spent to much time drinkin' Mr Dean's kool-aid, if they think messin' with the "happy people" will make me want to support them.
That was one of things I always tried to overlook, ignoring that aspect of the Coalition inside the big tent.
If each State decided on it's own, I'd be happy, just guarentee each State's right to stand above the Federal Courts, on that issue. Eminently legal way to solve the challenge, in this Republic.

6/04/2006 04:14:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I find Mikes 9:30 AM amusing.
But then I always did go for sick humor.

6/04/2006 04:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Yeah, Sheriff Joe doesn't have tent space for gays right now, married or not.

6/04/2006 04:16:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_1 said...

2164th (3:53)

It be home in

That there hog was done home growd.

6/04/2006 04:20:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Dennis Ross has a program to advance the Democracy Project.

Check it out How to boost Middle East democracy

Dennis Ross, former U.S. envoy to the Middle East, is distinguished fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy The Battle for Arab Democracy, which he helped produce, aired this weekend on the Fox News Channel.

6/04/2006 04:21:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Their DNA cannot possible be the link"
Muslim Links In Hog Heaven!
New Paradigm for Paradise.

6/04/2006 04:26:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

If Illegals deserve SS bemifits and only need pay 3 out of 5 years of back tax payments, why discriminate against happy people, arn't they Americans, too?

No need to pick on them, 'cept most were born here. Are most of 'em white?

Pretty soon they'll want to enforce the laws agaist "Big Love", too

Maybe it's a hatred of white males that drives this new Compassionate Conservative Admendment.

6/04/2006 04:29:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_1 said...

Law dog Arpiyou,Arpiu,Arpienude, whatever be the name is a national treasure and should be elevatored.
He be know'n what ta do wit da bad 'uns.
I'd vote fur him wit a ticket that had jesse venturi them two wood tho the book at the al kadahs,,and they's build a fence with transormer stuff

6/04/2006 04:30:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Sheriff Joe used to run Columbia for the DEA, or so the story goes.

Could be Governor, maybe, but Maricopa County is as large as Rhode Island and he's the top cop, guarenteed.

6/04/2006 04:35:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Elections are part of the process, but should not come first.

Given the current environment, we should not be pushing for early elections; we should focus instead on helping secular, moderate alternatives to organize and emphasize fighting corruption and developing the rule of law and good governance in the near term.

• There should be eligibility requirements when elections are held. Militias and their members should not be allowed to run as parties or to field candidates. It is either ballots or bullets but not both, and potential candidates must make a choice.
Too bad you don't even need ID to be eligible in many parts of this country.

6/04/2006 04:36:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

About six million people in his jurisdiction

6/04/2006 04:36:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Night of the Living Self-Loathers

6/04/2006 04:39:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Ahh, but Mr Ross was a Democratic appointee, what could he know?

He must have read some the postings here, to get such radically progressive ideas that are so far off course.

6/04/2006 04:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Reminds me of some sociology stuff I heard about in College:
Prejudice being highest between those that are closest:
The Elite don't like white trash leaving their laundry on the line.

6/04/2006 04:43:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Throw it against the wall, what else we got to work with?

6/04/2006 04:44:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

To implement those principles in Iraq, now, would require a Coup.
Keeps those rumors followin'
Mr Ross, he's knowledgable, dialed in with Mr Murdock and Mrs Clinton.

6/04/2006 04:44:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Rush Characterizes it as Rockefeller vs Reagan all over again.
They never did like Reagan puttin white trash in control of their own destiny's.

6/04/2006 04:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

20 million more welfare recipients'll take care of that.

6/04/2006 04:48:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Yale moves to Texas, buys a hat & boots, goes a little "native".

Still a Yale alumn at heart, frat man to his very core.

Still keepin' secrets from his Skull & Bones days.

6/04/2006 04:50:00 PM  
Blogger Habu_1 said...

Two legit comments.
Joe Arpaio is the real deal and we need to insitute his justice more widely.
Secondly VDH is one hulluva writer and on the mark about a lot of what is going on here.

Throw in Shelby Steele foor good a dam interesting dinner party.

6/04/2006 04:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Gives me goose bumps to think of Steele at a table with VDH's mostly Mexican relatives.
Wonder if the younger one's would want to listen?
Sure would be interestin as long as they checked for firearms at the door.
That would be one beautiful mind to waste.

6/04/2006 04:59:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Fences with razor wire, surronding compounds of GP mediums.

Think he has swamp coolers running, it has to be miserable, at best. No new prison construction, lots of new beds,
As many as required, he's got budget for canvas.

Lots of Posse's. Mounted Search & Rescue. Airctaft Posse, gives him an expeanded air wing, all volunteers.
Provides cars to a Posse in Sun City, a major retirement community in the County, so they run uniformed Posse patrols in them.
Road side "chain gangs", they are a real deterent to young teenage boys. Visble evidence as to why not to get busted.

6/04/2006 04:59:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

That unfortunate Marine that ran amuck in Hanford after cleaning up in Haditha is from VDH's community.
Little did he know what he was getting in for.
Well, he knew, but the higher ups had other plans.
20 years young.

6/04/2006 05:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Even Mexicans are Maligned when they're Marines, so the Elites can't be THAT bad.

6/04/2006 05:06:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Equal opportunity is selectively enforced.

6/04/2006 05:08:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Remember back to when we thought that Wahabbists were the "real" threat, doug?

Just cause they flew planes into buildings, in NYC and D.C..

Wonder if these Canadians suspects are Wahabbist or some Shia sect, I'd wager Wahabbist, 4 to 1.

We no longer discuss the Wahabbist threat, it has become Sunni Insurectionists, Iraqi Nationalists that are now the US's main concern, them and the disparate Shia Militias, now on a rampage across southern Iraq, centering in Basra.

Shites and Kurds, they make all the news
But those Wahabbists, those that attacked US in NYC and D.C., nary a word 'bout those boys or their ideology, not any more.

Must be a conspiracy of silence.

6/04/2006 05:25:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Good thing Condi has all those degrees.
Summa Cum

6/04/2006 05:30:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Canoneer has one of the most amazing pictures of the tower scene I've ever seen.
I'll see if I can find it.

6/04/2006 05:33:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Right near the top of a bunch of great mil photos.
9-11 Photos

6/04/2006 05:38:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I had never seen a shot that illustrated so graphically the blow through effect on the buildings and in between on the street.
Twasn't Nuthin.

6/04/2006 05:41:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Just visited Canoneers site:

It does puts the term "Hard Core" in a whole new light. Be sure and pay him back the twenty bucks you borrowed.

6/04/2006 05:52:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

That Mr. Atta was one Competent Character, but like rwe says, we often give our lowly adversaries little credit.
Sand Monkeys.

6/04/2006 05:56:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Of course I mean the sixties GI slang version which was a good thing.

6/04/2006 05:57:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

On a slightly related matter, some of you may find this 1964 document very interesting. It is written by George Ball and discusses why the US is going into Viet-Nam. Worth the read.

6/04/2006 06:04:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

This is the link:

6/04/2006 06:06:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Frank Talk

6/04/2006 06:06:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

This is the link:

6/04/2006 06:07:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

"... Beyond its possible role in determining whether Republicans can retain control of the Senate, the race between Mr. Kyl and Mr. Pederson is also highlighting the complex politics of immigration.

Here in this border state, where the Minutemen civilian patrol group is busy building a fence on the border, where more people cross illegally than anywhere else in the country, it is not surprising that the issue is Topic A in the campaign.

Mr. Kyl takes a harder line, emphasizing border enforcement and scoffing at the proposal, included in legislation passed last month by the Senate and supported in a general sense by the president, to ease the way toward citizenship for illegal immigrants already here. His stance puts him in line with most grass-roots conservatives, who object to legislation that they believe grants amnesty to illegal immigrants.

Mr. Pederson is taking the position held by Arizona's other Republican senator, John McCain, who breaks with conservative orthodoxy on some issues and who supports providing most illegal immigrants with an eventual chance to become citizens.

Mr. Pederson, 63, drops Mr. McCain's name frequently, and in a television commercial promises he would be "an independent senator who gets results and puts the people of Arizona ahead of party politics."

To the chagrin of Mr. McCain, Mr. Pederson has used a quotation of his calling Mr. Kyl's suggestion that immigrants return to their countries before applying for any temporary worker program "bordering on fantasy." ..."

As i said a month or so ago, now reported from NYC.
Nah, Immigtation won't make a difference. Only in fantasies. Mr Kyl could easily get popped.
Do nothing or grant amnesty, Kyl will be toast, in protest.

Kiss Mr Kolbe's House seat good bye, that "happy guy" is not running, rather retiring. Mr Roves Marriage Admendment won't play well in Mr Kolbe's District, they've known of his sexual orientation for years, made no difference to them.

6/04/2006 06:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Do you think when Bush had that Secret Meeting with the Dems on Immigration, he told them any of his secrets from Yale?

I doubt if he'd tell old Dingy Harry Reid from the other side of the tracks.
But Harry was happy as H... anyways.

Maybe George gave him a present.

6/04/2006 07:10:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Maybe we could pay people here to give VDH a listen on Immigration?

But maybe they'd figure he hates Mexicans too.
Lots of people hate their own families.

6/04/2006 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger Bob Smith said...

I was of course joking about the Mexican police, doug. I recall stories about the coke-up-the-nose treatment (the carbonated beverage) during the drug daze. My issues with the leaky border are security and health care cost.

Just as a throw-away footnote, the deal with VDH, god bless his heart, the lyricism of his prose almost obscures the content - almost.

6/04/2006 08:01:00 PM  
Blogger The Mad Fiddler said...

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the current president of Iran, was among the small group of University students who planned the take-over of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran in 1979. He was deeply involved in the Revolutionary Guard during the 1980’s, which is thought to have organized and accomplished the murder of expatriate Iranians in many countries around the world during that period. He is not the slavering madman some would like to think, which does not mean he is no threat. In fact, he seems fully rational, according to the doctrine of his faith. It is the extreme views of his faith that make him seem irrational to us infidels.

Mark Bowden was a guest on C-span today for 3 hours, in a program that allowed him to spend a good deal of time reviewing his research for his book “Guests of the Ayatollah: The First Battle in America’s War with Militant Islam.” has two very informative reviews of the book, one by Philip Caputo, the other by Afshin Molavi, of the Washington Post organization.

Mr. Bowden relates that Ahmadinejad had argued for taking over the SOVIET embassy, and was voted down by his fellow conspirators. The group of students had conceived of the takeover as a way of reinvigorating the Islamist aspect of the movement that had dislodged the Shah.

They evidently thought of the takeover as being similar to university sit-ins they had seen in the US newsreels — Berkeley, Ann Arbor, Yale... even Columbia in 1969, where the militant students had been brazenly armed with shotguns, bandoliers, and handguns. Almost all had been handled by the authorities with kid gloves, so that the protesters had successfully and BLOODLESSLY (well, mostly) managed to seize international attention for their protests. More to the point, they’d managed to extort concessions from administrations unaccustomed to keeping a change of underwear in reserve for student conferences.

In any case, however benign the plan may have been in conception, the problem was always the utter gutlessness of the Carter administration in its response. This was not a university dean’s office, being occupied by a bunch of spoiled middle-class turdlings looking to amplify their Stridex-scented fantasies. It was the sovereign territory of the United States of America, invaded by armed belligerents. This was a violation not just of American territory, but a breaking of diplomatic covenants held sacred among nations for many centuries, even in the carnage of World War. It should have prompted Carter to something more drastic than a flurry of protest notes and a belated and pathetically bungled rescue attempt.

That the Ayutollah and the Iranian Revolutionary Government encouraged and publicly acquiesced to this violation helped make Iran a pariah among nations, unable to establish official diplomatic ties and the standardized treaties necessary for normal economic trade, for the last three decades. Carter’s wavering, timid, and cowardly indecision begat mounting boldness in all of his foes, as they perceived that he was unable to bring himself to DO ANYTHING to oppose their adventures. Crisis begat crisis, begat escalating adventures, until only the most extreme and costly responses could have any hope for success.

James Earl Carter, who had famously spoken of leaving a candle burning in the window to signify America’s extreme annoyance at the 1979 Russian Invasion of Afghanistan had taken the even more aggressive and bold stance of withdrawing America’s athletes from the 1980 Olympic Games scheduled to be held in Moscow. Carter’s conspicuously impotent response to tens of thousands of civilian bodies blasted and burnt by Russian tanks, aircraft and 30,000 troops was at least consistent with his abandonment of the Shah.

A little more boldness in the moment might have made an enormous difference in the direction of events in the Middle East. The circle is closing. We are dealing with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today as a very direct result of the self-mutilating leadership of Carter three decades ago.

6/04/2006 10:01:00 PM  

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