Thursday, November 17, 2005

Posting will be light

Posting will be light for the next week because it will be hard to write anything worthwhile on the road, which is funny because road trips generate the kind of experience that stays with you forever and yet which you may forever be at a loss to convey. But the strangest thing about the meetings, dinners and parties surrounding the Open Source Media launch was its twisted sense of deja vu; people were meeting for the first time who had known each other for years. Tigerhawk remarked on the uncanniness of the experience as people stepped up and introduced themselves by their screen names. The faces and physiques, the ages and the backgrounds were often unexpected; but in a surprisingly high percentage of the time, the person you saw was exactly who you'd thought you'd meet.

The launch generated a surprising amount of commentary on the blogosphere, so much that at midnight EST it led the top of Technorati's charts at 740 posts. Commentary naturally focused on people; what they said and did; their agendas; their foibles. Yet I suspect that in the long view the most important thing about the event was that it was not a meeting so much as a reunion. And the process that made an inversion of the natural sequence of acquaintance possible is the real story.

It was bloggers from the smaller sites that brought the point home to me. One man was a commercial artist who had for years drawn illustrations for others and who had decided, one sunny day, to start illustrating for himself. Yet another described the need to write in order to make sense of the world and of his own life. In another age these attempts would have been fool's errands. But the Road, the real Road, the Internet has meant they had a chance to carve out their niche and do what they did best.

I'm personally convinced that each person is worth listening to; perhaps not across the board but at least in that one thing in which he or she is the world's greatest expert. It occurred to me as the elevator doors closed, zonked out by the 21 hour flight and the whirl of events, that I might have accidentally attended the blogger's Woodstock. Then I realized that such a thing was impossible: by a strange and almost mystical process, we had all already gone.

78 Comments:

Blogger Doug said...

re,
Woodstock,
Just don't hire Kevin for security at a future event, or he might revert to a prior incarnation, and instead of Woodstock, you'll have Altemont!

11/17/2005 03:08:00 AM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

Road trips...

Zen and the art of sanity maintenance.

So don't make it too long, W. I need my fix.

ADE

11/17/2005 04:03:00 AM  
Blogger Goesh said...

- just keep writing/blogging, that's the main thing, don't ever stop - you guys are appreciated more than you realize and are making your mark -

11/17/2005 05:45:00 AM  
Blogger stavr0s said...

It's interesting to meet internet personalities in the flesh. I used to be an IRC denizen and finally met some buddies in person. None of us were anything like we expected each other to be. It degraded our relationships rather than enhancing them. :)

11/17/2005 05:48:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Altemont, what now doug, you didn't enjoy the "Stones", or is it the Hells Angels prospect that is bothersome? kevin, stating a reasoned opinion is not stereotyoical of Hells Angels beehaviour.
There weren't that many casualties, just a few dead.
More than in Woodstock, to be sure, but less than a day's worth of auto fatalities in California, at the time.

It is interesting to see kevin's reaction to corporate and legal American realiyies. Let's see who the OSM management actually litigate against. If they do any litigation at all. If they get bogged down in copyright lawsuits and lose sight of their Goals, the effort will implode.

11/17/2005 05:54:00 AM  
Blogger Dymphna said...

In another age these attempts would have been fool's errands. But the Road, the real Road, the Internet has meant they had a chance to carve out their niche and do what they did best. I'm personally convinced that each person is worth listening to; perhaps not across the board but at least in that one thing in which he or she is the world's greatest expert.

Well, as usual, Socrates, you hit the nail on the head. I wrote some such to a discouraged blogger last night -- actually about 1:00 am -- there is that *one* thing. And sometimes just the effort of really listening to oneself transforms things.

I'm so glad you're in on this, considering you saw its possibilities before anyone else did. All it took was lotsa moolah to get it off the ground...

Have a good re-entry, Wretch. Maybe you could be interviewed via podcast by Silent Running and all the Aussies --plus the rest of us -- could get your version of the Rainbow Room Send-off.

What a venue! It's amazing it still exists...

11/17/2005 06:44:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

This is an interesting article, post at Realclearpolitics, basicly about the lack of serious limited government Republicans in Congress, or the Government overall.
It also highlights our lack of general seriousness of the entire Government and War effort

" ... Washington subsidizes the cost of water to encourage farmers to produce surpluses that trigger a gusher of government spending to support prices. It is almost comforting that $2 billion is spent each year paying farmers not to produce. Farm subsidies, most of which go to agribusinesses and affluent farmers, are just part of the $60 billion in corporate welfare that dwarfs the $29 billion budget of the Department of Homeland Security.

Brian Riedl of The Heritage Foundation reports that Congress responded to the Korean War by setting priorities, cutting one-fourth of all nonwar spending in one year. Recently the House failed to approve an unusually ambitious effort to cut government growth. This is today's ambitiousness: attempting -- probably unsuccessfully -- to cut government growth by $54 billion over five years.

That is $10.8 billion a year from five budgets projected to total $12.5 trillion, of which $54 billion is four-tenths of 1 percent. War is hell but, on the home front, it is indistinguishable from peace, except that the government is more undisciplined than ever. ..."

The contrast between the Korean era and today are alarming. After weathering WWII the Congress understood it's responsibilities to the "General Welfare".

11/17/2005 07:05:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

I used to read the newspaper daily. A good friend of mine is the opinion editor of the local bird cage liner, he is a Vietnam veteran and an all around great guy. But the paper has been descending into obscurity since the old man Copley died. It was taken over by his wife and now his pederast son David. During the final days of the Clinton revolution he was relegated to editor of the political cartoon section, aptly named ‘Drawn and Quartered’. His conservative views had no place in a paper that published most of it’s opinion on the front page. But times have changed and the media has suffered such great losses that they put my friend back into his previous position as editor. The sunset industry of the printed word no longer can support the grand machinations of the power elite and their pompous control of world dialog. Hoozah! Power to the people!

11/17/2005 08:04:00 AM  
Blogger tefta said...

Stavros, You're right. It's sometimes best to keep some mystery in relationships especially when the picture you've created in your head works better for you than the reality does.

It's comforting to keep thinking there's a wizard behind the curtain rather tearing it away and finding an old man talking through his hat.

11/17/2005 08:20:00 AM  
Blogger jp said...

fantastic conference. we need to do it more often.
jp
http://americansforfreedom.blogspot.com

11/17/2005 08:31:00 AM  
Blogger playah grrl said...

oh dear...hope this is ok with nahnceeee...;-)
OT, but Bill has met his met his fundage requirements--thanx to all that helped! Yaaay!
see here

11/17/2005 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger rufus said...

Does this mean that the Blogosphere's highest aspiration (ie to become MSM) is soon to be realized?

11/17/2005 10:53:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

'Rat,
Donnelly, the guy that wrote "The Army we Need," says in terms of percent of GDP (3%) defense spending is at Clinton Era levels.
...and conservatives used to gripe that that they were over deployed and underfunded!
Cold War Spending was often 6% for YEARS.
Sad, esp in light of the Pork you cite and we pay for in so many ways.
(loss of respect for markets being one)
---
As to Kev, that was no mere hypothetical.
If the search feature here is working again (if not, hope W can talk Google into finding cause) I can point to some interesting posts where Kevin and I discuss our experiences in different decades in the Madhouses of Marin and the East Bay.
One of my favorites was a visit to his buddies communal home of ill repute.
Poor Kev woulda begged for Ashcroft Justice at the time.
...that and his tales of his Boots and Buick Road Cruiser.
(Rains too much in Bay Area for year round Harley riding, I guess)
I chipped in my recollections of Black Panther Daze, and Campus life in Bezerkeley in the 60's.
(Kev attended years later)

11/17/2005 11:05:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Remember Richard Perle?
He is quoted at Daily Princetonian as saying some interesting things about Iraq:

" ... Perle, who chaired the bipartisan Defense Policy Board during the period leading up to the Iraq war, said he continues to trust Chalabi, who has been accused of supplying the United States with false intelligence prior to the war and of providing secret U.S. cryptographic codes to Iran.

"Almost everything you've heard about [Chalabi] is false," Perle said. "The CIA, which doesn't like him, has been out of control on this issue."

Perle described Chalabi as a brilliant patriot who sacrificed a life of comfort in the United Kingdom for an active role in the rebuilding of Iraq.

"We should have handed him the keys the day Baghdad fell," Perle said.

Perle praised the efficiency of the U.S. operations that ousted Saddam Hussein but faulted the establishment of the Coalition Provisional Authority, which precluded the transfer of sovereignty back to Iraqis until June 2004.

"I think we made serious mistakes after the initial military action," Perle said. ..."

He goes on to say

" ... The failure of the administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and especially Bill Clinton to respond to terrorist attacks allowed the terrorists to think they were winning, he added. President Bush's policy of not distinguishing between terrorists and states that harbor them was a more effective response than those of his predecessors.

"Terrorists can hide, terrorists can move, states are fixed in place," Perle said. "What better targets than states, which can be persuaded by threats or force not to harbor or support terrorists."

After Sept. 11, 2001, he said, the Defense Policy Board unanimously agreed that Iraq was one of the states most likely to supply terrorists with weapons of mass destruction. Perle said the U.S. government felt it could not tolerate that risk, no matter how improbable it seems in retrospect. ..."

11/17/2005 11:35:00 AM  
Blogger gemma said...

I love your statement that each person is worth listening to - in the area where he or she is expert because each of us, whether we know it or not has a voice. We just have not always had a place to use it or anyone who would listen. Hopefully we will be discerning in the areas where we are expert and share in appropriate ways......thanks for sharing your voice with us.

11/17/2005 11:46:00 AM  
Blogger Red River said...

This is the Deja-vu the men of the Continental Congress felt when they first gathered to write the Declaration of Independence.

They knew each other via letters and word of mouth, but met all together face to face for the first time that Summer's day.

Enjoy your Indian Summer - this Halcyon time, for the inevitable troubles to follow will challenge your union and will bring bitterness to some hearts.

11/17/2005 12:00:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

oh dear...hope this is ok with nahnceeee...;-)

Grrrrl - you silly git - as long as you're not being an total idiot, of course it's OK with me. This particular post is just you being a semi-idiot, but since that's probably genetic rather than learned I'll ignore it.

11/17/2005 02:12:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Well, to use the language of Woodstock, even your "light" posts are "heavy."

11/17/2005 03:32:00 PM  
Blogger Ari Tai said...

Congratulations and best of luck to all of you.

Let us know if and when y'all need to raise some serious money to maintain the presence and reach you deserve.

/Ari

11/17/2005 04:50:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Wanna take a look at the top of a true meritocracy, the results of the purest Darwinian process of elimination we'll ever see?

(No, not the website or its hostess--highly meritous tho they are--but the whole lineup of conferees, I mean.)

11/17/2005 06:51:00 PM  
Blogger sam said...

Bin Laden’s ruthless rival spreads tentacles of jihad across region:

Two US commando teams are pursuing him in the restive Anbar province, where he is thought to be hiding.

They have had some success in killing several of his subordinates and twice came close to capturing al-Zarqawi himself this year.

Bin Laden's Rival

11/17/2005 07:23:00 PM  
Blogger heather said...

Back to that Syrian blogger, and his insight as to the Cold American Civil War... I just fired off an angry email to National Review, as they led the charge against Miers... the success of which has broken enough of the dike that now Bush is in real danger of having to back down on Iraq. The GOP is awash with squishes.
As to the NRO: it is awash with beltway Intellectuals. And they are living down to their 'type': dabbling around in 'power' and being reeeaaallly amazed when everything explodes around them.

And I swear, George W Bush is the only guy standing who has a chance of preventing my grandchildren from living under sharia "law."

I retract my earlier snide remarks about John McCain... he is on the right side of this fight... and I hope he is as good a politician as he appears to be, which may mean the good guys have a (faint) chance.

11/17/2005 07:32:00 PM  
Blogger Karridine said...

It may be hard for us to think that the Internet was developed SPECIFICALLY in order to give the people of the world access to The Glory of God, but it is NOT DIFFICULT to accept that blogging, Internet and websites in general DO TODAY empower people to learn of the Coming of the Promised One of All Ages and All Religions; AND access to what His coming has brought and is bringing, DAILY.

11/17/2005 08:05:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Hard as it is to believe, Wretchard is harking back to the hated Hippies, in his evocation of Woodstock ... to an earlier time of a sense of community that was in the air, everywhere.

"By the time we got to woodstock
We were half a million strong
And everywhere there was song and celebration
And I dreamed I saw the bombers
Riding shotgun in the sky
And they were turning into butterflies"
- Joni Mitchell

Wretchard himself is probably flying at 50 angels now, far above and hopelessly unattached to the Web.

11/17/2005 08:50:00 PM  
Blogger sam said...

Al Qaida To Democrats: We love you!:

The Democrats have succeeded politically to the point where Bush now has only a 36% approval rating, while intellectually, Democrats look as goofy and deadly as ever. Their political attack has succeeded by accusing Bush of being dishonest about WMDs as the reason for going to war. But here are the facts:

1) There was a natural tendency to believe that Saddam had WMDs or could have them again quickly because he had them and used them in the recent past.

2) When Bill Clinton left office, having had 8 years to listen to the CIA and perhaps 30 other domestic and foreign intelligence agencies, he talked openly about whether Iraq would use WMDs in the run up to the war. He said, “I’ll guarantee that he’ll use the arsenal.”

Al Qaida Loves Democrats

11/17/2005 08:58:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

It occurred to me as the elevator doors closed, zonked out by the 21 hour flight and the whirl of events, that I might have accidentally attended the blogger's Woodstock. Then I realized that such a thing was impossible: by a strange and almost mystical process, we had all already gone.
/////////////////////
This was my experience last year. I went on an affiliate marketing cruise from NYC to Yarmouth Nova Scotia with a couple hundred people in the affiliate marketing business--many of whom I'd done $1000's even $100K's of business over the previous three years. We had emailed and even occasionally talked on the phone. But we had never met--not even in person for introductions. Everyone had found their way there over the internet.

There was something spooky/etherial about moving from discorporal to corporal relationships. And everyone had that man right off the street tangential air about them.

That was last year. This year its the movable feast; I see familiar faces in different settings as well as the passing crowd but the women are getting prettier and people are getting married. And the business is changing. There is the feeling that things are yet very new. But the wilderness days of the late 90's internet marketing are over.

11/17/2005 09:02:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

OT:

This is the picture everyone has seen of the earth at night
http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/Photos/earth_at_night.jpg


This is a live running picture that google has created of the google searches worldwide happening right now

http://labs.google.com/papers/sawzall-20030814.gif

11/17/2005 09:42:00 PM  
Blogger The Mad Fiddler said...

Dear Wretchard,

Reading your posts and the comments of your many thoughtful readers puts me in mind of the exchanges I’ve seen described that passed among people in ages past, individuals stranded in their smallish towns and even proper cities, hemmed in by forests roamed by brigands and wolves. The towns and cities may have bustled and brimmed with robust citizens, but learning and disciplined inquiry were rarities. Unless they had a posting at a university or a wealthy patron, those who were driven to such exertions had no other humans with whom to discuss their lofty ideas. Letters were their primary method of converse, so chats might extend over years. On the other hand, the process of writing tends to concentrate the mind and allow for more deliberate phrasing and cant.

There are a few excellent blogs that have articulated for some of us the pattern we had otherwise been unable to pin down in the seeming chaos of unfolding events. Yours is one of the few I’ve found that is consistently timely, compelling in logic, and free of gratuitously incendiary language. You clearly hope readers who don’t share your point of view will be sufficiently charmed to engage in conversation instead of a whacking great row.

I thought of my first encounter with your site last week when I heard of the Somali pirate attack on a cruise ship. The first of your essays that I chanced upon was one in which you discussed the danger of piracy or more organized predation on unprotected shipping, if I recall correctly, in more or less precisely that region of the world.

Regarding the “open source” basis of the new enterprise, it’s important to remember that individual property rights, when guaranteed and protected, have let individuals risk investments of energy and treasure that they otherwise would not have considered. Unix is not a purely copyright-free family of operating systems. But while some groups have created versions that are so specialized as to justify copyright protection, that in no way restricts others from continuing the elaboration and refinement of the original open-source materials.

Anyhow, congratulations on your grand concourse. I hope it leads to much success for all.

David March, crazed animator & fiddler
Virginia Beach, VA

11/17/2005 11:18:00 PM  
Blogger sausage sommelier said...

Hey wretchard, i found the following on ytmnd.com not too long after you posted:

http://wretchard.ytmnd.com/

Not sure what to make of it but it seems complimentary. This some harvard inside joke?

11/18/2005 12:05:00 AM  
Blogger ledger said...

Just keep posting Wretchard.

Persistence is the name of the game.

Keep up the great work.

11/18/2005 04:05:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

buddy,
As I said earlier the folks at the party seemed "normal" in appearence, some what, shall we say, average.
Except, of course, for Atlas.
To think, the weight of the world rests upon those shoulders.
Amazing.

11/18/2005 05:15:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

This from the Washington Times

" ... Last month, on opposite sides of the globe, two assaults on the freedom of speech began.
In Afghanistan, the editor of "Women's Rights" magazine was convicted on "blasphemy" charges after a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai accused the editor of publishing two "un-Islamic" articles: one criticizing the Islamic practice of punishing adultery with 100 lashes; the other arguing that leaving Islam wasn't a crime.
Such charges may seem as far as the moon to anyone raised in a free-speech society where adultery is a matter of private grief, not public beatings, and where freedom of conscience is a founding liberty. ..."

" ... Having learned that a Danish author couldn't find an illustrator to depict Mohammed for an upcoming children's book because Danish illustrators were intimidated by Muslim strictures against depicting the Islamic prophet, the newspaper challenged artists to submit drawings of Mohammed for publication. It was a test, said editor Carsten Juste, of whether the threat of Islamic terrorism — and the influence of Sharia — was encroaching on free speech in Denmark.
The paper ended up publishing twelve cartoons of Mohammed to make a liberty-affirming point: Denmark was not subject to the kind of thought control that had sent Ali Mohaqiq Nasab to jail half a world away. Besides, as Flemming Rose, the paper's culture editor put it, "In a democracy, one must from time to time accept criticism or become a laughingstock." ...
... This story takes another turn, off the streets and into the salons. Eleven Muslim ambassadors to Denmark (including representatives from Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Iran and Bosnia-Herzegovina) have tried, unsuccessfully, to meet with Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen to protest the Mohammed cartoons, which they see, as they wrote in a letter to the prime minister, as a "smear campaign" against Islam.
"The Arab Muslim world must take a stand on this," said Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit, who has announced that "this caricature affair," as one Egyptian diplomat called it, will be high on the agenda in December when the Organization of the Islamic Conference meets in Mecca. ..."

11/18/2005 05:31:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

E. J. Dionne Jr. writes about the political climate towards the Iraqi Conflict.

" ... Even more alarming for Bush is the fact that Senate Republican leaders felt obligated to introduce and pass their own resolution declaring 2006 ``a period of significant transition to full Iraqi sovereignty.'' The resolution called, without specific timetables, for ``creating the conditions for the phased redeployment of United States forces from Iraq.''

Sen. Richard Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, noted that the Republican resolution drew heavily on the language of the Democrats' proposal. Durbin praised Sen. John Warner, the Republican chairman of the Armed Services Committee, for a speech this week arguing that the next 60 to 180 days -- notice Warner's time line -- were critical to the future of Iraq and that the Iraqi government needed to come to grips with its ``internal problems.''

``Warner's speech,'' Durbin said in an interview, ``was as clear a signal as this White House will ever get that its loyalists in the Republican Party have lost faith in its strategy.'' .... "


Because the Presidient never articulated a metric for Victory, wanting, instead, a deployment of US Force without limits or judgement. Without specified Goals beyond the Authorization, he has boxed himself in. He has allowed the debate to focus upon pre-war intelligence and US failure to "secure" Iraq.

Car & Suicide bombings ARE NOT cause for military operations by US troops. They are crimes, that Police investigate. American soldiers are not in Amman, Madrid, London, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Bali, New Dehli, Islamobad or New York. Bombers do not call for a US Military response in Baghdad, either. Police and local officals are more than competent to deal with their people. As Presindent Talabani says, aQ is not part of a resistance, they are criminals.

Either the US "Wins" in the next few months, that ever famous "Spring '06" or the entire escapade will be labeled a "Failure".
Mr Bush and Mr Rove have not been able to control the debate, mostly because the "Course" being stayed is not understood by the Public, perhaps not even by the Senators. The Administrations message articulation has been very bad on Iraq. The problem and the solution are in the West Wing, not in the newsrooms and editorial pages of the free press.
With each passing day it will become more difficult for politicians to support a strategy that is not articulated by the President or understood by the people.

11/18/2005 06:27:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

David Ignatius writes at the Washington Post that we shoud be

"Careful With Syria"

" ... Broad-brush sanctions would disrupt Syria's contact with the West at the very time it's most needed and would alienate ordinary Syrians who need reassurance. They would undermine a process of political and economic change here that, if it continues, will gradually create a new Syria. "If you want to save the Syrian regime, then use economic sanctions as in Iraq," a European diplomat told me. A Syrian intellectual confided that in his view, "The regime is dying for sanctions." ..."

" ... The United States should send its ambassador back to Damascus, despite the government-organized demonstrations taking place almost every day near the U.S. Embassy. America and France should broaden their outreach to Syrian dissidents, human rights groups, artists, professors -- indeed, almost anyone who's willing to talk with outsiders. They should convey the message that the West is standing with the Syrian people as they move into the future. When Syria is truly ripe for change, these helping hands can ensure a safe passage.

More pressure on Syria will be necessary if the Assad regime openly defies the United Nations, but it should focus on individuals targeted by Mehlis -- so that they can't travel abroad, can't draw on their foreign bank accounts, can't strut on the global stage. This time, sanctions should punish the criminals, not the victims. ..."


The same type of policy should be followed in Iran, IMO

11/18/2005 06:45:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

desert rat, i think the "Atlas" is just short for "At LAST!" You now, what she keeps hearing when she meets guys.

11/18/2005 08:10:00 AM  
Blogger AtlasShrugs.com said...

Having exhaled, I just read my breathless mid-inertia post on the OSM event on some troll infested left wing blog. My sophomoric exuberance is almost pathetic (at my age sophmoric is inexcusable).

But that is exactly how I felt and how I continue to feel. More so in the post-launch snarkfest.

Apparently, nobody "gets it". It's a "non working business model". It is not economically feasable (even the attendees expressed some skepticism).
But I get it. Non working business model? It is an "original" business model. Organizing chaos. An intelligent conduit to harness and make sense of the incredible depth, breath and intelligence of an unbridled blogosphere.

Not only was a witness to history, I was a part of it.

Hooha!

Pamela

11/18/2005 09:26:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

In the news

Who is Rep. John Murtha?

" ... U.S. Rep. John P. Murtha has dedicated his life to serving his country both in the military and in the halls of Congress. He had a long and distinguished 37-year career in the U.S. Marine Corps, retiring from the Marine Corps Reserve as a colonel in 1990; and he has been serving the people of the 12th Congressional District since 1974, one of only 131 people in the nation's history to have served more than 30 years in the U.S. House of Representatives and one of only 224 Members of Congress who have served 30 or more years. ..."

This is his current view:

"... I have been pressing this administration for more than two years to provide an exit strategy for this war. I’ve been urging the acceleration of the training of Iraqis so that we can turn over security to them and get our troops home. I’ve pressed for greater urgency in getting the Iraqi infrastructure in place to put more Iraqis to work. I held a national press conference with House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi to again publicly call on this administration to provide clear measurable objectives for our progress in Iraq. At that press conference, I said the following:

"… I think we’re confronting a crisis of immense proportion in Iraq, and it’s coming faster than the people realize. The lack of clear objectives and consistent policies has left us with a weakened security both at home and abroad. (There is) a weakening of public support not for our troops, who have done everything we’ve asked of them, but of the president and his job in Iraq. There’s a difference between supporting the troops and continuing to support a failed policy. It’s up to the president to clearly define the goals and objectives of what constitutes success in Iraq. The American people deserve this. Even more important, the troops deserve to hear what the policy is." ..."

11/18/2005 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Atlas, let me apologize on behalf of desert rat (who started it, BTW) for those several rather loutish posts. You're just another soldier in the fight for freedom, you can't help what you look like. And neither can desert rat, I'm sure from the opposite direction.

11/18/2005 11:25:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

I could never carry the weight of the world on my shoulders, that's for sure.
As Dirty Harry Callahan once remarked:
"Mans got to know his limitations"

11/18/2005 11:33:00 AM  
Blogger quark2 said...

Wretchard,

Someday I will name a kitten after you. :)
Many thanx for the brilliant and learned essays you've wrote for the internet public to digest.
It's good to put a face to the name, making the circle complete.
Hope someday to have the honour of shaking your hand!

11/18/2005 12:08:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"E. J. Dionne Jr. writes,"
---
What next?
Charles Manson on Iraq?

11/18/2005 01:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Now I know you are not THIS Desert Rat .
---
Desert Rat on
Mark Steyne
on Iraq.
---
Steyn will offer the "Great" Marine vet a free first class ticket to Iraq along with him to see what ACTIVE DUTY SOLDIERS think of this longer serving John F. Kerry Wannabe.
Whatever he was, he is now doing them a serious disservice.

Cheney Chickenhawk Talk is BENEATH CONTEMPT!!!

11/18/2005 01:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Actually, that's 'Rat on GOP CS Senators.
Steyn's interview is at
radioblogger.com

11/18/2005 01:50:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

you are correct doug, that "rat" ain't me.
I'd litigate, but who really cares.
What are the damages?
ah, open sourced names on blogger, call kevin, maybe he'll find an easy, field expedient solution.

If the "withdraw now" crowd were not so automaticly anti Bush, they'd start saying we've won in Iraq, which is a reasonable position. Where would Mr Bush be left standing then, arguing the US has lost?

11/18/2005 02:05:00 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11/18/2005 02:23:00 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11/18/2005 02:30:00 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Look like the good folks over at the media group formerly known as Pajamas Media have stolen their new name Open Source Media.

A very famous blogger has these comments on the rapidly evolving situation:

Charles Johnson, why are you acting like Dan Rather?

Radio Open Source has two additional posts up on their site about the trademark infringement contretemps. Meanwhile, OSM removed their previous post defending the name and have now posted an updated version, complete with manufactured facts.

OSM is acting more and more like post-Memogate CBS by the minute. "Wait a minute! What's this? We're supposed to be the watchers, not the watched! Accept what we say, don't question it! Don't you know who we are?"


Guess who,
Atrios?
Daily Kos?
Steve Gilliard?
Morth American Muslim-Lefty Love Association?

Nope



Who would have thunk?

11/18/2005 02:31:00 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

It's Steven Den Beste but for some reason his link doesn't work

http://denbeste.nu/Chizumatic/

11/18/2005 02:33:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Does charlie think we should stay or go, inquiring minds need to know.

Now the House will vote tonight to "support the troops", but the debate has only just begun. If the Republicans couldn't hold the House, it'd be over.

After a successful December election, with Chalabi or Allwai as Prime Minister, the Big Z is captured or killed.

As we begin the Victory withdrawal, in the Spring, our darkest of black operators snatch Dr Z and Osama, or bring back their heads.

Democrats are then left on the side of the road, while the Victory Parade rolls down Main Street, USA.

Bush & Rove misunderestimated, again.

11/18/2005 02:56:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

For those of you that have not kept up with Michael Yon and his tales of the Duece Four.
It seems that CSM Prosser was awarded a Silver Star.
Seems they've come home and held a party.
Interesting reading.

11/18/2005 03:08:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Where the hell is Morth America?

11/18/2005 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Let me explain somthing to y'all about Murtha.
Before the Republicans took over Congress, he was head of the Defense Appropriations Subcommitee. That gave him a great deal of power, as much any cabinet office, - and more than most.
And he relished that kind of power.
His "Hawkishness" can be explained solely by his attempts to enhance his own power by spending more on Defense.
I recall one instance in which he inserted in the DoD budget a few hundred $K for one of his constituants who wanted to sell the USAF a mod we did not need to equipment that was headed for the surplus yard in the near future.
The Air Force said that was dumb.
Murtha made it clear that if his friend did not get the bucks then funding for the B-2 and other things would get scarce.
The Air Force caved in.
That is not being a hawk.
That is being a porker.
That is the kind of man he his.
He will hurt the country to get his own petty little way.
And he just did it again.

11/18/2005 05:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Buddy,
It's due Morth of Texas.
'Bout 200 miles from your place as the Meuth flies, far as I can tell.

11/18/2005 07:10:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

'Rat,
I figure http://www.radioopensource.org/ owes OSM a considerable sum for all the extra traffic they've been so generously given.
---
My wife just wants to know,
Sue Who?
Unfortunately, Sue made me sign a non-disclosure agreement, so things just keep getting worse because of this situation.

11/18/2005 07:23:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"As we begin the Victory withdrawal..."
---
That's it, except the Dems and the Spineless GOP Senators are Hell Bent on reframing it as a withdrawal following a humiliating defeat, to better serve the Dem's campaign 2006 Lie:
Bush Lied People Died.
---
That, and to re-energize the enemy, of course.

11/18/2005 07:28:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Luckily, at least for now, we know that if we see a post titled,
"Atlas Mugged,"
we'll know it was just for the cameras.

11/18/2005 07:34:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

403 to 3 !! Put that in your headlines Al Jazeera.

11/18/2005 09:02:00 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Buddy,

Normally it’s called the North American Muslim-Lefty Love Association but this week, in honor of its founder, Mohammed (John) bin-Murtha, the first letter of the title is being changed to “M”.

11/19/2005 03:27:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

doug

Mr Bush and his team seem in freefall.
The vote in the House, inconsequental to any Policy development.
As I said, and have been saying, the President and his team will not define Victory, so that when his policy does achieve success, no one knows.
The enemy and Iraqi Insurgents know our policy and tactical plan, in Iraq. They understand clearing the 'rat line', they understand the power the ISF bring to the field. The US public does not.

The President SHOULD report to the people, often, aboout the progress being made by our troops. He does not. The fault is his.

As I said, he could just misunderestimated, again.
I certainly hope so, but I'm not sure of it. If they do not swing the PR war, here at home, there won't be much support for "staying the course". Most folk seem to think we have run aground.

11/19/2005 06:25:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

403 - 3.

I never knew C-Span could be so interesting. I really enjoyed my own Rep. Curt Weldon praising his pal and mentor Murtha - proving that nobody was trying to "swiftboat" Murtha.

Murtha himself was very moving in making his larger point. I don't doubt that he's a patriot, but he is certainly wrong. (Btw, he is a pork master - Johnstown PA runs on Congressional money he has poured into his district, including a huge medical center for research, and a classified Beltway Bandit operation way out there in countrified Pennsylvania (a short drive south from Shanksville, holy site of Flight 93).

J.D. Hayworth, the coolest cat in Congress, held up the three leading liberal dailies: NYT, WaPo and Al Jazeera to point out that they were all reporting this proposal as "immediate withdrawal." This is what our troops hear, this is what our enemies hear, no matter how the Dems tried to spin this.

Finally, Sam Johnson, he of the DFC, Purple Hearts, Silver Stars and 7 years as a POW in Vietnam put the 'slam dunk' on the whole deal by declaring that this move by Murtha was virtually equivalent to what the Dems did in the 70's - we surrendered in Vietnam - after we won the war!

The last two days leave me with one major question: who is the bigger pompous ass, Joe Wilson or John Kerry?

11/19/2005 07:11:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11/19/2005 07:22:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

If support for US Policy is so high in the House, why don't the Republicans float a vote on redefining Victory?
How about a Reauthorization for Use of Force?
That would really be the debate to have. One that would be "binding".

I'd love to read the where as's in a new Autorization.

As for Mr Hayworth, known him for almoxt 20 years, great guy, a former Sports Newscaster, he certainly does have a sense of theater.

11/19/2005 08:31:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Support for the war is definitely not as high as that vote, but at least support for Surrender is that low.

Murtha's remarks were all about having a debate, setting goals ... but also cutting and running to a base "over the horizon."

Also, this latest furor have to be viewed in the context of the Dems screaming about being tricked into supporting the war, and turds like Nancy Pelosi declaring that the White House knew so much more than the dull as dirt Congresspeople, like Pelosi. That information was available to them, there is no question about that, and they are lying to weaken the President during war time.

This comes on top of their purported furor about Plame and national security. As if! If outing Plame was so bad, what was giving Top Secret clearance to a Chinese agent, John Huang?

Is this poisonous environment, where many Dems would rather see Bush hurt no matter what the cost to the nation or the world, I don't think the kind of honest debate you hope for can possibly take place. John Kerry and his fellow fools will "swiftboat" any honest debate.

11/19/2005 08:58:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

tony,
the point is that without the debate, without a definition of victory, there will never be victory.
If the President refuses to define it, the Congress should.
Declaring the Aims and Goals of a War is the Congress's responsibility, while they have abdicated their Authority to the President, whom, in prosecuting the Use of Force leaves the Goals and Aims in flux. The Congress retains Responsibility, even after delegating their authority.
Which is one reason why their approval numbers are even lower than Mr Bush's.

Trouble is the Republicans control the Congress, so it is their numbers that are in the dumpster, there, as well as in the West Wing.

11/19/2005 09:42:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Over at RCP Tom Bevan see's the House vote and the debate, this way:

" ... Wanting to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq doesn't make you a coward. What does make you a coward is when you truly believe we should get our troops out of Iraq immediately, you have a chance to vote for doing exactly that, and you choose not to because you fear the political consequences of being on record revealing your position to the public. This was not a vote on some obscure provision of the budget, it was the most supremely important subject on which members of Congress have the privilege and duty to vote.

So hats off to Cynthia A. McKinney of Georgia, Robert Wexler of Florida and Jose E. Serrano of New York for having the courage to vote what they really believe. And shame on those who didn't ..."

11/19/2005 09:52:00 AM  
Blogger Eggplant said...

Tony said:

"In this poisonous environment, where many Dems would rather see Bush hurt no matter what the cost to the nation or the world..."

There is some truth in this. However what we might actually be seeing is an attempt at political preemption by the Democrats and MSM.

Iraq is entering into its end game. After the Iraqis have their general elections next month, the United States will be positioned to reduce its troop levels. The remaining troops will be redeployed in well defended bases inside Iraq. The strategic vision will have been achieved of a democratic Iraq (free of Saddam) with U.S. troops positioned for further action in the Middle East. The American bases in Iraq will be sharpened daggers pointing directly at Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia. Add to this. the additional Iraqi oil production safeguarded by American military power will have made the world less depenedent upon Iranian and Saudi petroleum (destablizing those two states will become an economic option).

The icing on the cake: Iraq becoming an efficient jihadii killing engine. Through al Qaeda's mindless violence, the foreign jihadiis are now hated in Iraq. Iraq is on the verge of becoming the Middle East's bug zapper.

The strategic vision of President Bush has almost achieved victory and the Democrats know it. The Democrats must prepare for this eventuality or be swept away in 2008.

11/19/2005 09:54:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Eggplant,
Don't bother 'Rat with the facts:
It interferes with his MSM view of POTUS and Co.
So no matter what people like RWE and numerous other long time Vets say about Murtha and other defeatist jerks on both sides of the aisle in Congress, it is always GWB's team at fault, since that is the DEM/MSM template of reality.
If the MSM gives more coverage of the turds coming out of Murtha's mouth than POTUS, then damnit, that is reality!
(Odd that no one ever asks the simple question of WHAT WOULD HAPPEN if we followed Murtha's advice...Better to rehash divisive details and join the MSM's demoralization campaign than to look at the end game.)
---
More Murtha:
[Kathryn Jean Lopez]
Roll Call---
Republican lawmakers say that ties between Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) and his brother's lobbying firm, KSA Consulting, may warrant investigation by the House ethics committee...

According to a June 13 article in The Los Angeles Times, the fiscal 2005 defense appropriations bill included more than $20 million in funding for at least 10 companies for whom KSA lobbied.
Carmen Scialabba, a longtime Murtha aide, works at KSA as well.

KSA directly lobbied Murtha's office on behalf of seven companies, and a Murtha aide told a defense contractor that it should retain KSA to represent it, according to the LA Times.

In early 2004, Murtha reportedly leaned on U.S. Navy officials to sign a contract to transfer the Hunters Point Shipyard to the city of San Francisco, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.

A company called Lennar Inc. had right to the land, and Laurence Pelosi, nephew to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was an executive with the firm at that time.

11/19/2005 11:06:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"to sign a contract to transfer the Hunters Point Shipyard to the city of San Francisco"
---
Wonder what development rights to that little bit of Bayside Real Estate is worth?
Direct transfer from the taxpayers to Pelosi and Co.
...Just like her Crooked Bastard Father taught her.

11/19/2005 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

(must be something GWB did not properly articulate)
MSM Rules!
Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar!

11/19/2005 11:13:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"So hats off to Cynthia A. McKinney of Georgia, Robert Wexler of Florida and Jose E. Serrano of New York for having the courage to vote what they really believe. And shame on those who didn't ..." "
Do you really enjoy pasting this garbage here 'Rat?
Why shouldn't we just watch TV if we want to hear about some jerk praising a group like that, including the Corrup Muslim Loving Traiter and Anti Semitic Racist Hater McKinney?
---
Please don't quote EJ Dionne or Celine Dionne in your reply.

11/19/2005 11:20:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Corrupt"
(means she takes money from terrorist sponsors)

11/19/2005 11:21:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony, 7:11 AM,
Please delete that post, young Desert Rat still believes in Uncle Walter and the tooth fairy.
...Lessons of Vietnam not welcome here!

11/19/2005 11:30:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Doug,

The thing is: Desert Rat was right, he's been saying for the past year or so that the Politicians would eventually declare peace (and blame any real or imagined bad results on W. - my addition to this prediction.) He was even right on the timing.

I don't understand exactly what the debate on the Plan would cover. For me, doing the OPPOSITE of whatever we did in the 90's that led up to 9/11 constitutes a great plan.

How would the debate go from the other side? Let's see, most but not all wmd analyses said Saddam was a threat, and if we retreated from the UN sanctions he would almost certainly would have renewed all of his programs. What was the likelihood of that NOT happening? Very low, right? So, given 9/11 and the known results of ignoring enemies, wasn't it prudent to eliminate Saddam?

Or, if Saddam "was no threat" - then what was Osama?

Or, if we didn't even know about the AQ Khan network, Libya's wmd programs, etc. - wasn't it good that we found out and stopped them?

I suspect this is not the kind of plan or definition of victory that Desert Rat is hoping for.

Facing a nation-less, global, suicidally fanatic enemy in Islamofascism, our plan must necessarily be as amorphous and dynamically changing as the enemy. As Eggplant says, we needed bases for that, Iraq is the base. Is that a good enough first step in the direction of Victory?

I guess I'm being simplistic. At least we are fighting back, that's a huge improvement over the 90's.

As for the Dems pulling their Vietnam surrender routine all over again, well, that was expected. I'm glad the Republicans are finally fighting back.

I guess I'm just for fighting back, not surrendering.

But Desert Rat is right, it can't go on like this forever. According to us. According to our enemies, it has been going on for 1.4 millenia, and it will go on forever.

The loose way Bush defines our goals and Victory is the only kind of net that can grasp such an enemy.

Then again, if half the population of America manages to convince a few more of us that this war is an "illusion" - we lose. The enemy doesn't beat us. We just lose. Just like Vietnam.

Somebody please suggest a plan, like Murtha's "run away from the beehive" plan, or something better.

11/19/2005 12:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony,
The honorable plan 'Rat predicted was declaring victory and proceeding with the phased turnover to Iraqi forces.
The Dems and Spineless GOP Senators want to label it a mistake, lay that mistake on Bush, take their perceived payoffs to the polls, and let our Military the Iraqis and our country pay an incredibly high price as the terrorists once again point to yet another "victory."
---
That's why it's sad that the debate does not REQUIRE a straightforward answer to the simple question of:
What happens AFTER we follow through on a Murtah plan?
---
Vietnam redux, only their were no North Vietnamese bombing our cities.

11/19/2005 03:56:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

let our Military, the Iraqis, and our country, pay an incredibly high price...

11/19/2005 03:58:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Doug,

Back in the 70's the Democrats seemed to believe that every price was too high, every foe too strong, every task too difficult.

Then along came Jimmy Carter, who wanted to surrender in the Cold War.

Thank God for Reagan and both Bushes.

Now - it's off to make a million writing for OSM! Heh.

11/20/2005 05:23:00 AM  
Blogger Netpowersoft said...

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11/28/2005 03:32:00 AM  
Blogger Netpowersoft said...

You take pleasure in the most twisted things...

keep it up :)

hey i am fully agree to what all you have written here ..
i am lovin this blog...

This is looking really nice stuff..
Well you win my heart..


i am lovin this blog...
This is a cool stuff
:)

http://netWallpapers.com

http://tradealoan.com

11/28/2005 08:45:00 PM  

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