Is it time to shift focus to Iran?
A Marine officer responds by private email to an earlier post examining the question of whether it is propitious to shift the focus in Iraq from the AQI to Iran. He writes:
In your recent post about Petraus shifting the front to Iran, you asked: "First: is MNF-I correct to open this Second Front? Might not the AQI flare up again? Second: how will Iran be tackled? It will depend on three things. The Iraqi Army, the Elections in 2008 and the command plan. Right now those are three variables, the last being dependent."
My take: Yes -- they are correct. The only remaining fight that is predominantly against Al Qaeda is in Mosul. It seems to be going well judging by its absence in the news. AQI will not flare up again in Anbar province, though they will no doubt attempt more attacks there because a) the US forces are drawing down pretty dramatically there and b) the system of "reconciliation" that results in detainees from the past 3 years being released from prison is escalating -- releasing people who were once collaborators or facilitators, but who have now been hardened in prison -- and this will result in more attacks in Anbar. The coalition will be able to hold there, but watch out for some sort of large-scale attack: a truck bomb into a city council or local police station -- because if exploited correctly this could easily make people rethink their allegiances to the coalition -- out of survival instinct, not ideological fellow-feeling with AQI.
My only other tidbit is that there are two sets of elections in 2008: Iraq is scheduled to have local and provincial elections in October. This will significantly legitimize a good portion of the pro-US leadership in Anbar who just stood up or appointed themselves to be in charge when security was horrible and the Americans were scrambling for local leaders. Do not be surprised if the SaHwa Al Iraq, the Iraqi Awakening, carries these elections. If covered well in the western press, this will be some very good news for those who support the war: another round of elections in Iraq will be huge and especially in Anbar, where turnout was incredibly low in 2005. The fact that these are scheduled for October, and the US poll is in November, is most certainly not a coincidence.
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posted by wretchardthecat at 4/19/2008 02:46:00 AM
83 Comments:
I always said that Iraq is the key to Iran, as Iran is the key to Iraq. Wasting four years and nearly a trillion dollars on the Maliki government was a needless detour.
Fortunately the AP will provide excellent coverage of the surge in AQ violence in Anbar because their "correspondents" are being released from prison. Hell, they can help organize the violence and thus make sense of the chaos for the "news consumers" back home (while making chaotic the sensible). "Let's see. How can we get the best angle on the truck bombing at the public works meeting tomorrow?" Soon they'll be working in Hollywood. Except the pyrotechnics will be real.
Of course, they may prefer a tenured position at the Columbia Journalism School. Getting tossed into the slammer by the US Marines got to be a resume enhancer there.
When Maliki's government takes on Sadr's Mahdi Army are the two hands of Iran in Iraq clapping? Or are they washing each other? And does that even make sense? We'll see!
Doug in a previous thread makes note of the CIA's open war on Bush. I'd like to submit that it is not just the CIA involved in this war against the executive but the DOS as well. Lewis Paul Bremer III was deliberately inserted (in opposition and contrary to the original military plan) to indefinitely set back the schedule on Iran and Syria. That this might not occur, is a testament to the skill of Gen General David Petraeus and his junior commanders in Iraq.
If we can just keep things manageable past the Nov. elections, Barry, Harry, Nancy and Co. will negotiate a proper and lasting peace with Iran.
Another fine post trashed.
Would everyone please email blogger asking for a tool that a site administrator could use to block a commenter that is determined to destroy a blog site.
Kudlow had to suspend comments on his site because of the unsolvable problem from the blogger platform. His site is not the same.
The character of the Belmont Club would be diminished by the loss of reader participation with the end of comments.
It should be a simple matter for blogger to issue that tool.
Doug: If we can just keep things manageable past the Nov. elections, Barry, Harry, Nancy and Co. will negotiate a proper and lasting peace with Iran.
Mohammad Khatami strongly condemned the attacks on 9-11. Tehran did not oppose the US-led invasion of Afghanistan that toppled the Taliban regime, which was hostile to the Iranian government, and they approached the US through back channels offering to help us, because that was in their own enlightened self-interest. Instead Bush put Iran on the "axis of evil" and told them to pack sand. How's that working out for him?
better than it did for reagan (when he trusted the same back channel iranians)
As for 621317251521, as far as I'm concerned, he's welcome to post here. One of the inevitable consequences of free speech is that on occasion you will hear what you would rather not. What makes this blog so great is not only W's insights, but the commenters who provide additional arguments based, mostly, on facts and reason. 621317251521's perspective (pathetic raving) is, as far as I can see, disconnected from either facts or reason, yet provides a window into the thinking of a certain segment of the world with which we are engaged. That world view, like ugly cars or bad commercials, are not something which I need to either fix or denounce. Like oil stains in the middle of the street, 621317251521's fulminations are ugly, noxious, inevitable (for now) and irrelevant; I'll give them all the consideration they deserve - I'll ignore them. Meanwhile, it sounds like he'd be happier in Mosul. Maybe we could solicit donations to buy him a one way ticket?
...the system of "reconciliation" that results in detainees from the past 3 years being released from prison is escalating -- releasing people who were once collaborators or facilitators, but who have now been hardened in prison
I'm wondering how many of these reconciled ex-jailbirds are the bad guys that Saddam released BEFORE we went in in 2003.
It's seemed to me throughout our advetures in Iraq that a hefty part of Al-Q was dumb little Saudi's and Yemeni's imported from elsewhere, and that another hefty percentage were garden-variety crooks in it for the money.
I have to believe that the released&reconciled were already hardened before they ended up in jail, and that they must be running short on their 9 lives by now.
For example, Bilal Hussein has a couple of choices: he can relocate to someplace where the police (and Marines) don't know him, or he can try to talk AP into bringing him to America or England as a refugee. I just don't see him as being able to make a successful life for himself as a Baghdad photographer, and I wonder how many of his terrorist relatives are still alive that he can hide behind them.
* * *
As for the little Muslim troll, I think he and his threats are cute. If we can't logic and or snicker him into submissions then there's something dreadfully wrong with the inhabitants of B Club (and the terrorists have won).
Personally, I'd rather read his peaceful threats than Aenea's blithering idiocy, so I say let him do his worst because it will take more than a string of random letters to demolish the concept of freedom of speech and ideas. (Interesting how threatening he seems to find the concept of lesbian homosexuality ... and how extensive his research into it has been. I wonder if he's equally familiar with gay men and trannies, and why that might be if so.)
Yeah, Iran is going to need to be given a bloody nose to keep them out of Iraq.
For the crazy Muslim troll - get your own blog, don't spam here. Speaking of spam, SPAM is partly made of pork, so that is another reason for you stop spamming. Can't risk your chance at 72 virgin goats.
Wretch, you deleted me once, delete this fool. It's your site. Just push the button.
Allah be praised
Allah was a molester of little boys. He also had oral sex with his horse. Filthy little Muslim. God Damn Allah!
On further thought, maybe Wretch ought to keep you around, as a reminder to the rest of us about what we are dealing with.
Agree.
The thought occurs to wonder if it's really a Muslim at all, or some little sophomore majoring in Philosophy at Berkeley playing sock puppet.
BTW, Numbers, I wish you'd point out where I called you a terrorist.
When we vote here,in 20 or 30 years and our representatives measure many we will control the USA with legal means.
See, the difference between Western laws and memorizing the Koran is that the Koran is immutable and cannot be changed from century to century, which is why you're still living in tents with camels.
Western law *is* mutable and can be changed. They are being changed right now even as we speak, with France sending misbehaving immigrants back home, the Dutch putting anti-Islam movies on the Internet, and the English locking up imams who used to be able to hide behind free speech.
In 20 or 30 years, it wouldn't surprise me at all if all Muslims in the West had been deported back home where they can vote in elections *there*, or if our laws have been changed to where Muslims are not eligible to vote on the grounds that they're mentally deficient and therefore too stupid to breathe, let alone elect a President.
Of course, by then, vast swaths of the Middle East will have been turned into glass parking lots but I'm sure there'll be an oasis or two left where we can send the rest of you to discuss "lessons we have learned".
Whoa Y'all,
Hate spewing from the regulars here in reaction to 5389202943 (whatever) is not a solution or classy.
Sometimes I get that reaction when I comment but thankfully not often, ahanda Allah!
Even aenea makes some good points. America/the West is in a learning curve in dealing with this new threat. Care must be taken to keep mistakes to a minimum. This is the pain of trial and error.
The fundamental difference between me and 69862796 (whatever) is attitude. I am not in conquest mode like him. I, like most Muslims, can respect my brothers and their faiths. Maybe that is because I am American and love the Constitution (the world's greatest form of Sharia).
I think 86868686 (whatever) is just yanking the commenters collective chain. From the venonous reaction I see fear. Are Y'all going to be terrorized by a jihadist troll? As I have read, the greatest commandment of Jesus Son of Mary (peace be upon him) is,"fear not".
Salaam eleikum Y'all!
fen,
I have to side with 123456789 against such an insult against the Prophet (peace be upon him).
Humor is a better weapon.
I submit, the koran be outlawed, as hate speech, and as advocating the overthrow of the government.
And I mean it. We should do this now.
The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
Free men and women should act, now.
I find it interesting (and not terribly surprising) that commenters such as "numbers", never seem to unlock their blogger profile.
What are they afraid of?
Just lurking and reading the flow, I would guess that the chance of 621317521241 to be anything other than a prankster is very low.
I would ignore it.
marzouq:
For a good time, call 621317251521. The telephone number has been changed from 8675309...
This may be a bit off topic but I believe it is time to shift the focus to Iran.
621317251521, do your friends call you 621?
"Then another man came and said: Assalamu Alakum Wa Rahmatulah Wa Barakatuh. The prophet responded and the man sat down. The prophet said, "thirty rewards."
http://www.islaminfo.org/
Numbered one
Deceit is the quality that prompts intentional concealment or perversion of truth for the purpose of misleading.
Who is the False Prophet.
Tell me the Truth.
Bobal: I submit, the koran be outlawed, as hate speech, and as advocating the overthrow of the government.
Bobal, sedition is one thingm, but when did the US government ever outlaw hate speech? You have mixed up reports of what they do in Canada or Europe with how we do things here.
"This may be a bit off topic but I believe it is time to shift the focus to Iran."
---
Easily distracted, hd?
I suffer the same malady.
Numbers said, "So you are saying that US citizens who were born here but who are Muslims will be deported?"
In Western jurisprudence, unlike that of the Middle EAst where no one is EVER held accountable for their sins and misdeeds, there is a concept of "aiding and abetting".
What that means is that even if you, personally, did not pilot an airplane into a skyscraper, if you knew that your brother was going to do it or if you donated money to your cousin so *he* could do it, then you are also guilty of that crime and can be sentenced.
Therefore, because not once since 9/11/2001 has any Muslim in America turned in to the authorities any of their friends or relatives who might be terrorists, and since American Muslims are demonstrably still sending money overseas to help Al-Queda's efforts, and since people like you are vocally talking about taking over our country and throwing out its Constitution, then I think the majority of Americans have every right to adjudge you guilty of treason, the punishment for which would be jail for life where you can't hurt anyone, or denouncing Islam, or going back to where you originally came from.
Just because that's never been done before does *not* mean it's impossible that it won't happen in the future.
Why on earth would you think that we'll stand still for Muslims threatening us and kicking sand in our faces in mockery, just because you can hide behind our system of beliefs and laws which you do not support?
Do you *really* think that the meanest, most vicious, most lethal and most successful species brought forth upon this planet so far won't ultimately defend itself against your pathetic (and stupid) threats?
"Look at Marzouq The Redneck Muslim. i can believe he is a Muslim just by the way he refers to jewish people as the "unapologetic jew" or the "radical jew" but i have my doubts on whether he is a "redneck", he has not said anything that would indicate this to me (i am surrounded by them)."
I posted this before and have 2 questions for MTRM: 1. what makes you a redneck?? the fact that you say "yall"?? 2. you reprimand posters on here for not being "classy" and speaking hatefully and you act as though you are above all this and try to make us believe that you think of everyone as an equal. why is it that you have to refer to certain posters as "jew" and not just a person?? the "unapologetic jew" you referred to could only be detected as one by his last name not by what he was saying but that was enough for you to categorize him like this. to me, it sounds like you are completely blowing smoke up are ass and are full of .... you know. why are you trying so hard to make a good impression on us? i certainly dont believe you.
I've deleted a few comments from a reported troll in the interests of keeping the discussion going.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Wretchard - any way of tracking said troll's ISP and figuring out where it's posting from? Idle curiosity ... not important, just wondering if it's a sock puppet or not.
Back to our regularly scheduled programming on whether or not to nuke Iran.
I am fairly confident that I have the ISP address from a post at the EB. When I confirm, I will pass it on.
Well you know me Teresita, sometimes I get a little over riled up.
Orange Park, Florida
Surprise!
...another round of elections in Iraq will be huge and especially in Anbar, where turnout was incredibly low in 2005. The fact that these are scheduled for October, and the US poll is in November, is most certainly not a coincidence...
General Petraeus was fixing to go before the Senate with a surge that was militarily successful but with no political progress in Iraq to show for it, which is, you know, the primary reason for the surge. So somebody leaned on al-Maliki really hard to do something, which he did. He even went down to Basra himself. The only conceivable carrot and/or stick is a threat to withhold some funding or service US taxpayers are currently providing now. The threat worked wonderfully. President Barack Obama will use the same procedure, but far more extensively.
Derek Kite
It never hurts to know more about your friendly nieghbours to the North who are at this moment fighting side by side with U.S. Marines in Afghanistan.
As I often do when others demonstrate a particular fondness for Canada as you have shown, I like to leave the reader with general knowledge fun facts.
Here's one set of links to a man who has been an inspiration to people in both our countries and whose actions both under fire and within captivity still serve as an example today to those tasked by
the U.S. military to train U.S. servicemen to survive should they become prisoners of war.
His courage and tenacity saw many U.S. servicemen survive slavery as Japanese prisoners of war
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/
main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/18/
db1801.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/
09/18/ixportal.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Leonard_Birchall
http://www.telefilm.gc.ca/data/
production/prod_4414.asp?lang=en&
cat=tv&g=doc&y=2006
Telefilm Canada - SAVIOUR OF CEYLON (THE)
Teresita, a short perusal of Iran's conduct wrt US would include:
Hostages, 1979.
Beirut Barracks and Embassy, bombing of, 1983.
Hostages, hijackings, killings, 1980's.
Kidnapping, torture, murder (in Tehran) of Beirut CIA Station Chief Buckley, 1980's.
Bombings, Buenos Aires, 1994.
Khobar Towers bombing, 1996 (under Khatami the "moderate").
Facilitation of 9/11 (matter of sworn testimony before the 9/11 Commission, amounting to IRGC/Qods Force, direct report to Khameni, personally escorting Muscle Hijackers through Iran customs from Afghanistan, so no stamps on passports).
Offering sanctuary for Saad Bin Laden and other high ranking AQ people.
Now all this came when AQ was in open conflict with Iran, and had killed with the Taliban Iranian diplomats in Herat, Afghanistan.
Conclusion, before and after 9/11, Iran colluded with sworn enemies to kill Americans. As a tribal people, no real peace is possible with them, unlike top-down USSR. All that is possible is periods of quiet by using force to deter attacks.
Yes America MUST confront Iran.
Iran promises nuclear proliferation (stated public goal of Ahmadinejad) to attack America. Iran has promised since 1979 to attack and destroy America, and has done as shown above what it could without nuclear weapons to do so.
Moreover, if we want to moderate Iran's behavior, short of war and regime change, we need pressure points which means we need Iraq stable enough to launch various Special Forces, and other elements (Azeri, Baluchi, Arab separatists) to put painful pressure on Iran. It's the only proven way to get the regime which has been remarkably stable (Khomeni and Khameni plus various Mullahs are the real power, not the elected presidents) and of course, tribal.
I don't think we need to panic, either bomb Iran or prepare for doomsday, but our national security interests are in keeping Iraq stable, reducing Iran's influence, and paying Iran back "big time" as Cheney would say to make them do things we want (like stop proliferating).
Re: the troll. I've wondered if he's an agent provacateur.
Our troll inspired my muse
BAGHDAD — Iraqi soldiers took control of the last bastions of the cleric Moktada al-Sadr’s militia in Basra on Saturday, and Iran’s ambassador to Baghdad strongly endorsed the Iraqi government’s monthlong military operation against the fighters.
I'm a frequent reader here. Wretchard’s posts are often top flight and many regular commentors here are very knowledgeable on foreign policy and national defense topics. Thanks to all. However, the regulars and the trolls sometimes get way off topic. I suggest that the regular posters ignore the trolls and they will go away.
It’s way past time to crush the Mullah’s, destroy their military and nuclear capability. Unfortunately we have been giving lip service to this for so long that I’ve lost faith in Bush and company’s will to act. I’ve read blogs from many smart people and for years wondered why we spend billions of dollars cruising carrier strike forces around the Persian Gulf just to watch them sail away without pounding Iran into submission. Maybe I’m demonstrating my novice understanding and over simplifying the issue, but my humble opinion is that GWB knows Russia and China will not sit still if we strike Iran. Presidents before him have known this too. That’s why we just talk big and never act. It’s just a lot of ratchet jawing for domestic or foreign political consumption. Russian and Chinese leadership probably know this too. It’s all about oil, natural gas and where the pipelines need to be built. It’s the great game. I hate to say it, but I believe the most we will do is fight a proxy war with Iran which gives them more time to attain nuclear weapons capability.
Red - disagree x 2.
First, a troll needs time and engagement to reveal its troll status. You, for example, are new to me and seem to have some weird ideas that might lead me to consider you to be a troll. So I need to read what you have to say for a post or three to get a feel for where you're coming from. This can lead rather far afield, and that's usually a bad thing but then the art of conversation isn't usually restrictd only to the topic at hand, so live with it.
Second, I just don't see what either China or Russia are going to do if we nuke Iran. I don't think either of them are major players other than huffing and puffing. Their options seem to me to be (1) more huffing and puffing, (2)landing soldiers on the East Coast and invading us in retribution, (3) boycotting AMerican products or otherwise tampering with our economy, (4) denouncing us in the UN or (5) trying to nuke us in return.
Of those options, all of them seem un-doable except #1 and #4 and I can live with them as a reaction. Big Whoop. AND, in the meantime, our sworn enemy with be a smoldering heap of radioactive ash and a done deal. Like the man said, mission accomplished.
I don't think Bush has given up or our military has sailed away. I think there's a very carefully plotted plan in place with an extremelly tight timeline, and while that timeline has kicked off, it won't near completion for about another 6 months. So right now, patience is counselled and understanding necessary.
I watched something extremely interesting unfold today on this site.
A Muslim(maybe)kept making a point over and over that Islam would eventually take over the USA.
But that wasn't the interesting or telling part. The Muzzie wasn't rude, didn't make threats of violence, or in any manner other than state in various ways that Islam would prevail WITHIN the current US Constitution's rules.
The outpouring of vitriol was astonishing. People who I am sure consider themselves good Americans were making all manner of threats to abrogate parts of the Constitution, free speech etc and throw US citizen out of the country because they were Muslim.
I'm fairly sure a few of those posters have at one time or another actually taken an oath to defend the Constitution but a troll pushed them right into immediate fascism, the Constitution be damned. Yes, they'll have excuses but that's what happened. One Bobal wanted to outlaw Islam altogether..outlaw a religion in a country dedicated to freedom of religion. Amazing.
It was, as I say , very instructive as to how fragile most citizens commitment to the laws of this country truly are. In many cases non existent.
Then the blog owner pulled down the Muslim? troll? posts for what, they didn't follow the thread? Yeah I believe that. Teresita was about the only one to show good sense and her judgment in assessing the situation was excellent. But she was alone.
Good to see our citizens in their finest hour. Mob like.
Mostly for not following the thread. But in part because of references to child porn, lesbianism, etc.
A blog site is to a certain extent a moderated forum. You do what you need to keep the majority of readers commenting. Some blog administrators disable comments, as I have in one of the threads with a lot of ad hominem. In fact, certain organizations require pre-approval in order to avoid legal liabilities.
I have also deleted posts (not by the gentleman in question) which might be construed as inciting to personal violence. Probably unintended or badly phrased, but there's nothing one can do but delete them quietly.
There's nothing to prevent the gentleman from starting his blog. There's no censorship on the Internet unless you are the sort who goes in for distributed denial of service attacks.
IY Daisy,
There was some smack talking going on, but , just try to go to the other side's blog tell 'em they'll love life under the Christians' thumb and see their civility. Do you know what kind of problem mooslims are causing in europe? Rapes of young women in Sweden are alarmingly high. We are watching the slow demise of that land.
Pissing in that troll's ear is not even a step toward abbregating the constitution.
It'll get a lot more uglier than that.
Doug: BAGHDAD — Iraqi soldiers took control of the last bastions of the cleric Moktada al-Sadr’s militia in Basra on Saturday, and Iran’s ambassador to Baghdad strongly endorsed the Iraqi government’s monthlong military operation against the fighters.
Good, they cracked the hardest nut, now we'll see if al-Maliki goes after the umpteen other Shi'ite militias running around in Basra. Probably not, they might be what he considers "good" Shi'ites. Five years after the fall of Saddam and they are just now getting control of the most important city, economically, in Iraq. The British force sure as heck didn't control it.
Didn't we hand over Basra to the Iraqis? Isn't it their call whether or not to go after the Iranian supported independent militias at this time?
The entire center-right premise of victory in Iraq is that Iraq will grow a pair somewhere in the process of our association with them and do this fight on their own with our support. You can't have that happen without, at a certain point, targeting emphasis not being our call anymore. In other words, if the premise of the article is not divorced from reality, we're actually doing worse in Iraq than I thought we were.
My perception is that Maliki thinks that he can make a multi-ethnic government in Iraq without Iranian money and influence backing him in the next elections. He'll smile and say nice doggie to his former Iranian friends for as long as possible and then haul out the sticks so that nobody else on the Shiite Iraqi political scene can unseat him using Tehran's largesse.
Maliki's mask slipped in Basra and the Iranians are accommodating *Maliki* because their troops on the ground got creamed.
So far as I can tell nobody in the blogosphere's looking at Iranian command and control. I would not be surprised if some Iranian generals have recently been (or are about to be) put out to pasture. They did not perform well in the S of Iraq.
Wretchard,
Excuse me W but I saw no references today about child porn. By far the theme was Islam taking over the USA.
If you had left the posts up we could tell but you wilted and gave into the mob mentality.
I read things from the mizzie I didn't like to read but there were few if any ad hom attacks. You're blowing smoke.
It was an electronic lynch party on a Muslim, pure and simple and you know it.
Daisy - I name you a Progressive Troll.
A trouble-maker, certainly not commenting on the thread's topic.
Now where's my lynch mob?
cactusbob555,
Your final sentence is testimony to the point I'm making.
You may also note that this isn't Europe or Sweden but the USA where we profess to do freedom better than anyone else.
Of course the Muslims are anathema to us but when one flunky can get a host of intelligent people to so easily abandon the rules of our Constitution then the Muslims are indeed winning in causing us a loss of freedom. Surely you see that. It was one Muslim? troll? one F'in person and this crowd went postal.
Why wait, why don't we just all get guns and go to Dearborn or other heavily populated Muslim areas and start shooting them? That seems to be your position as well as others.
NahnCee,
If I waited a lifetime there would never be an appropriate thread to make the points I am making.
The points are valid and the mob needs to be brought to their senses on their behavior and dedication to the rule of law....or are you also of a mind to just having a free day of shooting Muslims in the USA?
No, I'll settle for a day of shooting smug, holier-than-thou liberal progressives.
Yeah , where is that mob? They use to hang blacks, lock up Japs ( while the Germans stayed free) and now it's the American Muslims turn to be hanged.
You go girl.
Standing up for the rule of law and the Constitution is smug?
That's a novel thought.
IY Daisy,
IF we agree you kick me?
If you're just talking smack, congratulations. If you take yourself too seriously, well, your evil troll ways will tell.
Why is it that anyone who deigns to disagree with the consensus is suddenly a troll?
I guess it makes it easier for some of you to believe you're logic is flawless if your counterpart is a "troll", a person who is less than human. It's a time honored way of demonizing your opponent without using your brain but rather an appeal to emotion.
Just like what we saw today.
I guess I didn't get my copy of the script we're all suppose to follow.
When do we all bark on cue?
Marzouq the Redneck Muslim: fen, I have to side with 123456789 against such an insult against the Prophet (peace be upon him). Humor is a better weapon
It was bait, not an attack.
And I mean this with the utmost respect - my insult of the Prophet pales in comparison to what your brothers are doing in His name.
IY dud Daisy,
Take Your PC police scroungy hide out of this.
Iran has, since the failed Carter administration, been
asking for a humiliation. They are most deserving of it.
It was bait, not an attack.
Nice try at spin fen , but it won't fly guy.
cactusbob555,
Take my what where? Not nice c-Bob.
Try to keep it elevated. We're talking about the rule of law and how it was thrown in the trashcan today.
So do your best to be nice and make your points without malice.
Are you a Christian C-Bob..then turn the other cheek.
Teresita was about the only one to show good sense and her judgment in assessing the situation was excellent. But she was alone.
Getting kudos from Habu is like Terri Schialvo getting CPR from Jack Kervorkian.
Now, outside of the USA what we need to do is bomb Iran into the stone age, which is what we should have done to Iraq. Just clean up the rubble and start out brand new.
They're desert people so they could move back to the nearest oasis.
But Americans won't support that policy at all. However Bush is going to bomb Iran big time and it will be a fun show and as the hated Habu said...there's not a damn thing anyone can do to him.
Teresita,
News flash but Terri is dead. CPR wouldn't help her much and Jack K doesn't look like he has the lung capacity to blow up a balloon.
Nahncee
The off topic conversation does not really trouble me. I skip it quite often because I prefer to read comments that pertain to the topic that attracted me to a post in the first place. I offered my suggestion to ignore the trolls in an effort positively influence this blog. That’s all.
As for China and Russia, I put the idea out there to see if it resonated with the better informed folks here, if I’m off base it won’t be the first time. I’m just mystified as to why we have been talking about dealing with Iran for decades (Since I was in High School) and have not done so. It looks like the Chinese have an interest in Iranian energy supplies.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23533450-5005200,00.html
http://mnweekly.ru/business/20080417/55324124.html
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JD17Dj04.html
I hope your right about the six month timeline. I’ve read here on other posts about the post election/pre-inauguration war theory. I’m just not optimistic about anything significant happening to deal with Iran until??
Daisy, I do not think you appreciate the gravity of the situation.
First, Muslims in the US have been very silent. Their silence shouts in fact. Nothing along the lines of the Nisei, who volunteered for front line combat service out of Manzanar. Muslims have decried discrimination, etc. etc. five minutes after the towers fell. Reasonable accomodation of the need to profile Muslim air travelers is verboten. It wasn't after all Al Gore nor 80+ year old Medal of Honor recepients who were flying planes into buildings. Searching them is a waste of time. Not so Muslims. Patriots would have assented out of love of country.
Second, Muslims make provocative demands in this country after co-religionists attack the US out of explicit religious reasons, for special treatment, and make disgusting and demeaning displays (burning and urinating on the flag at Ground Zero, etc.) They have acted along with Code Pink as enemies of America and so most Americans treat them as enemies.
Finally, we face according to Congressional testimony, the likelihood of nuclear attack on the US by Muslim groups.
I can tell you what will happen. People will look to survival, and revenge. The government and PC system will have broken down. As it broke down in LA during the Rodney King riots, and it broke down in San Francisco during the post-Gold Rush era when the Irish Gangs from New York pushed the Mexican-American war vets too far.
Yes after a nuclear attack there will be retaliation. There will be various vigilante action, with more or less state and local support. Some people will die, some will be imprisoned and interned, and others will lose everything. This is entirely predictable.
The Muslim lobbyist groups have aligned themselves with foreign terrorists (they make excuses) and refused to choose decisively America, when the choice was put to them by events between America and Islam. That Muslims have been acting barbarously and horrificly against Americans for more than thirty years, and Americans believe (with a great deal of justification) that Muslims are the enemy of America, has not helped matters.
You might ask the shades of Geronimo and Crazy Horse what happens, eventually, to those who make themselves enemies of America.
Lost in the Peace Movement dinge of Code Pink and ANSWER is the real reason that most oppose the Iraq War -- they do not think Iraqis, being Muslims, are worth a bucket of spit, and consider all Muslims their enemies, and treacherous ones at that. There is a huge desire among the American public to simply shove the world away.
GWB at every turn, echoed Liberal Dogma that Islam was a "Religion of Peace" and that Muslims yearned for freedom and peace. Barbarity in Iraq and on 9/11, not to mention thirty years of prior atrocities against Americans, make that an obvious lie.
Does anyone, including myself, look upon the coming disaster with anything but horror? No. But worrying about the fate of the Muslim community in America compared to say 3-5 million US dead in a nuclear terrorist attack is like worrying about a stubbed toe when you're diagnosed with cancer. It's foolish.
Muslims in this country sealed their own fate when they did nothing in response to 9/11 but complain (hate crimes increased against JEWS not Muslims after 9/11). I am sure they won't deserve their fate but they did in point of fact choose it, by refusing to choose ... America.
Iran is moving forward with nuclear enrichment. With proliferation. And where exactly is CAIR? Why decrying Mark Steyn for "hate Crimes" and backing convicted terrorist Sami Al-Arian.
Thus you have your answer and a classical tragedy. Hubris. You (and others like you) think that in an emergency people will not do things they have to in order to survive. Lincoln shot traitors, imprisoned Congressmen, and closed down newspapers. He's accounted a hero, and rightly so. He saved the Union. Did what he had to.
Freedom of religion in the United States is for the various flavors of the Judeo-Christian religion. ALL...the others are just different forms of paganism which we suffer. They are Worldly Wisdom raised to the level of a religion and the end of it is judgement and the second death. Today in America is the precious opportunity for all to become Christians. While there is life there is hope.
Mr. Daisy, you are way out of your depth. The letter of the law kills but the United States' legal system is based on the grace of Jesus Christ. That is why you have been allowed to speak. Christianity is not suicidal. Christianity is forgiving but there are consequences to your words and deeds. Inciting someone to anger to hunt their soul is a sin, whoever you are. You have not added anything to this conversation. Your comments are a distraction to the business of this blog. If you are playing the Devil's advocate you should say so lest you be taken for the Devil himself.
These conversations are important. This is how Americans focus their energies and sharpen their wits. Don't trifle with it.
Best regards!
Sparks fly: Mr. Daisy, you are way out of your depth. The letter of the law kills but the United States' legal system is based on the grace of Jesus Christ.
I wish that were true, but it's not. We don't forgive murderers, rapists and thieves, we make them atone for their crimes, either by killing them outright, or by slicing decades out of their finite life by sticking them in a rathole somewhere.
Whiskey_199: You might ask the shades of Geronimo and Crazy Horse what happens, eventually, to those who make themselves enemies of America.
Yeah, the white settlers were just minding their own business taking all of the land of the Original Inhabitants and marching them on the Trail of Tears to some crap land in Oklahoma when out of the blue, for no good reason, those Original Inhabitants decided to become enemies! But we showed 'em!
Sparks fly,
The element missing appears to be your understanding of the US Constitution and your repect for the law.
Where does it state or what scholar interprets the Constitution to say that freedom of religion is restricted only to the Judeo- Christian variety? You're nothing but a fascist. That is not ad hom attack that is labeling you for what you have presented yourself as. You can't support the Constitution and have the thoughts you have...you are the danger to freedom in this country.
Jesus has allowed me to speak? Jesus would decry your positions.
You may re read my posts and not like the point sI have made but they are observations of exactly what happened yesterday as normal citizens who think they are law abiding turned fascist over what ONE Muslim? troll? said. That is not rational.
"
These conversations are important."
Please, this is a blog where , like most blogs it's various choir members reinforce each other with a minor twist here and there on the same topic. But important, hardly.
Important conversations take place a bit about anyones pay grade here.
There's not a honing stone in the world that could sharpen your wits.
Some of you who have been around know of my advocacy for both the early bombing of Iraq into a parking lot and the bombing of Iran into a similar state.
I am also on record as advocating that the US redefine Islam as a philosophy and not a religion, thus removing it's First Amendment protections, given it's philosophy of world conquest via the sword if necessary.
I have appointed myself President of the Gen Curtis LeMay school of total victory, giving no quarter to an enemy that attacked us, backed by secondary shadow allies, but allies our intelligence people can say through intercepts and recovered documents are Muslim radical allies.
These positions I have advocated for years, since the beginning of the Iraq war. Total victory.
Now I see where most of you got on your high horses yesterday over the Muslim? trolls? assertions that in this country they have rights and are covered under the Constitution that most of you just brushed aside. Some even wanted to throw legitimate US citizens out of what is, by Constitutional authority, their country too. The atmosphere was redolent with fascist philosophy, not Constitutional law.
Well I'd do all those things too but we're stuck with law and order, and Muslims, and blue eyed people, and Hindus, and African Americans (anybody advocating we send them back to Africa because they torch large sections of our cities every ten of fifteen years/) Of course not.
Perhaps this inscription needs to be given some thought.
The version inscribed at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C. reads:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
You're nothing but a fascist. That is not ad hom attack that is labeling you for what you have presented yourself as.
You're nothing but an idiot, a twit, a misinformed traitor, and more than likely an Obama supporter.
You have consistently talked off-topic since your first post, and show absolutely no concern whatsoever about Iraq or Iran, but have insistently returned to your mistaken beliefs about our Constitution. You *do* understand the Constitution has already been amended several times, don't you? So that we can make it say whatever the hell we want it to say, including "no malignant daisies allowed".
The one bad thing about Wretchard's site is you can't put idiots on ignore so they don't show up any more. But this will be my last post to you because you are a troll and not worth the time to read your off-topic bullshit.
BTW, really good job on changing minds to agree with you.
Nahncee: The one bad thing about Wretchard's site is you can't put idiots on ignore so they don't show up any more. But this will be my last post to you because you are a troll and not worth the time to read your off-topic bullshit.
This reminds me of an old Bugs Bunny/Edward G. Robinson routine:
"I'm shutting up boss, anything you say boss I'm shutting up, yep that's' just what I'm doing right now, boss, yes siree!"
"SHUT UP SHUTTING UP!"
NAHNCEE DON"T READ THIS
NahnCee,(current BP 250/155)
Yes the Constitution has been amended. But last time I looked the first ten, The Billl of Rights, were in fairly good order.
Religion,etc.
Now if you want to add some new amendments we go about that through a Constitutionally proscribed process, not "The Edict of Nahncee"
Your rants have truly focused the kleig lights of your ignorance about our legal process directly on you. Whats really scary is that those who know I am speaking the truth are remaining true to the pack mentality and defending the tribe, not the Constitution. Their silence is deafening and telling.
Whiskey.
You might ask the shades of Geronimo and Crazy Horse what happens, eventually, to those who make themselves enemies of America.
You might also ask yourself why the United States failed to live up to even one treaty they signed with various Indian tribes.
Now under those circumstances do you think you would embrace or become an enemy of the people who violated those treaties?
This comment has been removed by the author.
And if we're going to start to throw US citizens out of the country because we don't like their religion , or their within the law speech then why don't we start with Rufus' wife,a Korean, or Wrethchard, or Teresita ..I dont't believe any of them are WASP's, although I believe all are US citizens.... so are they fair game?
Then we'll kick out everybody that doesn't watch NASCAR. Then those that don't watch I Love Lucy reruns, or Bonanza, or .......
nahncee
"Their options seem to me to be (1) more huffing and puffing, (2)landing soldiers on the East Coast and invading us in retribution, (3) boycotting AMerican products or otherwise tampering with our economy, (4) denouncing us in the UN or (5) trying to nuke us in return."
Another option they have is that could also cause trouble in other areas that could be in the US's interests - Ukraine, Georgia, etc.,
China wouldn't tamper with our economy because they are too bound up with it. It would be worse for them if we began boycotting Chinese goods. As for Russia, in 2006, they only imported 4.7 billion worth of US goods (oil/gas equipment, food, tobacco, chemicals, etc., Their exports to the US totaled 20 Billion. So, again, it would hurt these countries more if we decided to boycott them.
Nahncee,
Following up to my post above, I know that you discount this point too stating that option 1 & 4 are the only realistic options. But, while we are distracted, for good reason, but distracted nevertheless, I can see China and Russia causing mischief elsewhere that impacts us.
I just hope that whoever is President at the time is creative enough to recognize that two can play this game and cause mischief right back at them. But, to do this while the left is screaming bloody murder, the MSM playing every negative angle as they have done with the Iraq war, the President will have a tough time constantly trying to make the case to the American people. This last point especially, GW did a poor job on.
of course, I am not really sure what boycotting Chinese goods actually means these days, and how much harm to American companies who manufacture products there would cause.
"It sounds like you are completely blowing smoke up are ass and are full of .... you know. why are you trying so hard to make a good impression on us? i certainly dont believe you."
4/19/2008 02:14:00 PM
Slim Slow,
Thanks for the challenge.
I did not call the Unapologetic Jew that, he calls himself that. As a matter of fact, I have read his blog and I like him.
I call myself a redneck because I participate in redneck activities (hunting, fishing NASCAR). I live in the South and I like it.
I had been intrigued by the eastern culture and Islam for some time and have done much reading and research on the subject. The study of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is as interesting as my study of Jesus Son of Mary (peace be upon him) and their impact on the history of the World.
In the past I had met some Muslims when I was a Christian and was impressed with their respect for Christians. My life of faith has been an odyessy through several religions and I ended up a Muslim. I keep it private in my life and anonymously public on the net. I view those who want to kill and destroy to achive their goals as criminals. AlQueda, Hamas and Hezballah behave much like the Mafia. They profess many faiths.
Hell, what was I thinking. I did learn a lot. Especially about that silence of the American Ummah. The only ones making noise are CAIR and MSA whose agendas are very questionable. What I found is people with a love of their Creator, cameraderie and life. I decided to look for myself instead of soaking up news stories which tend to focus on the negative and sensational. This is what I found. It was an exersize in facing fear.
I fear a new century worse than the last when it comes to killing, mayhem and destruction; perhaps total destruction. I see religion used as a motivator to that end. Those who do so are the goats who need to be separated from the sheep. This new kind of war fomented by non-state actors is a scary prospect.
The irony is that all that hardware (aircraft carriers, submarines, stealth bombers) can not be used offensively as proposed against Iran. They are only deterance to be used in retaliation or leverage in negotiations. Intel is the key and we are far behind in that. I quote John Boyd, a man to be admired, a military genious. He said, "People, Ideas, and Hardware in that order is what wins." I believe him.
Most experts of Fourth Generation Warfare agree on the point that de-escalation is the key to winning this new kind of war. General Petreaus's strategy of shifting from the focus of hunting terrorists to the focus of protecting the population (the Surge) is a method of de-escalation in Iraq. There is always a learning curve and who achieves it the fastest, adapts to changes in the enemy's tactics fastest and improvises fastest will win.
Who thinks most clearly and communicates most effectively the clear thoughts shall win the war of ideas.
There are many sane Muslims out there who understand these things I have said. There is a war within Islam. I pray the sane prevail.
This has been my theme on this blog ever since I found it. I find Wretchard a good and reasonable man which is why The Belmont Club is one of my favorite stops on the net.
And... I ain't trying to blow smoke up nobody's ass. You can believe what you want.
Salaam eleikum!
I am also on record as advocating that the US redefine Islam as a philosophy and not a religion, thus removing it's First Amendment protections habu
Bob is on record agreeing with that very thought, and proud to do so.
Marzoug, you sound like a good guy. Why not give it up, like my ancestors did the worship of Odin? Why not read a little Joe Campbell, see things from a wider perspective? Why stay trapped in any of these isms, why not just say the hell with it, and not be identified with any of it? You can keep the best of it anyway you know. Keep the best of all the traditions. And you have cut yourself free.
Good day!
The definition of religion is: "to come to the aid of widows and orphans in their distress and to keep oneself unstained by the world." James 1:27
The only way to remove the stain of the world and to keep oneself unstained by the world is through Jesus Christ. All the other "religions" ARE the world.
All religions are not the same. Christianity is different.
Also, forgiveness and jailtime are two different things. It is possible and proper to forgive a thief and still send him to jail.
When the Constitution was written there were only two books in general circulation in this country: the Bible and Shakespeare. It is my opinion that the Founding Fathers never imagined that those other "religions" would ever be considered anything but paganism to be avoided like the plague. To their minds if America ever sank so low as to consider Islam or Bhuddism on a par with Christ then the game is over. America requires the love of Christ to function. All our institutions require it. This blog requires it.
Is America all done but for the weeping? Pray to the ONE God of heaven for a Spiritual Awakening.
Have a wonderful day.
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