Noah Pollak versus Matthew Yglesias
At Michael Totten's on the subject of whether Gaza's troubles are all America's fault. Even if you don't agree with Pollak, his recapitulation of Gaza's history and his analysis of the political dynamic alone make the article worth reading.
posted by wretchardthecat at 5/26/2007 09:58:00 PM
10 Comments:
Hey maybe its the fault of the culture over there? Nah that couldn't be it because before the Israelis got there everything was sweetness and light. Hell the Arabs had a thriving industry, were inventing all sorts of neat new gadgets, their agriculture was the envy of everyone. They were at the top of the food chain as far as cultures go and those those dasterdly Israelis came and it all went to shit. Then Bush came around and kicked was little crap there was left over.
Or maybe its just that corrupt damn culture started by a pedophile and perpetuated by murderers. Nah
Smack down…the idea that there exists something called Moderate Islam.
Michael Totten is an excellent read. He really captured the life on the Border.
Ironically, in our area, a local Imam that chain migrated from Gaza to the USA regularly blames Israel for everything in the local newspaper. He just had to run an obituary for his younger brother, killed by another faction of Palestinian gunmen. The irony was not lost on him - saying that part of the blame does have to go to Palestinians that accept armed anarchy and tainting the image of all Palestinians as insanely violent barbarians, which is not true, he said....
What's really fun about these types of articles is that for years we, the readers, have had to come to terms with how that part of the world likes to play.
Those terrible Jews who were given land in the last century! Those forever poor and suffering Palestinians!
Where does one begin to understand this sad, yet enduring conflict? Why care? Oh yea, that's also part of all these articles; why we need to care, why it's our responsibility to care.
As Mom used to say: "You made your bed; now lie in it!"
Or Mom's other great line: "You can lead a horse to water; but you can't make it drink!"
Mom was cute, and farm smart too.
Cultural dynamics...God I just love'm. Right now, it would appear the Jews have more energy within their culture than those who practice being their enemies.
To gather proof, just watch how the ambulances race thru the streets to a suicide bombing at a bazaar or a business. Note the newness and completeness of the ambulances. Note the condition of the streets. Note the newness of the motor vehicles the ambulance passes. Note the condition of the street's buildings. Look at the clothing those citizens wear who come into view. Note the various people who wear uniforms and act in what appears to be a very organized manner. Social energies here.
Now, let's go to our Muslim brothers' neighborhood. There's that missiled vehicle which carried some "freedom fighters" or "terrorists" depending which side of the street you may be viewing from. Note the vehicle's age. The road, the surrounding buildings. Is there an ambulance coming, see it yet? Are those citizens, who surround this vehicle and who are helping the occupants, organized? How about their clothing?
Fighting the good fight, on both sides. Argue all day long, but still not enough pain has been experienced for common sense to enter. Why, it's our own Hatfield and McCoy war, or perhaps just a domestic spat between Bill and Hillary...
There's one thing the Bible is really good at presenting: Today the Jews may be winning, tomorrow it might be the non-Jews (might as well lump all the different groups who from time to time hate Jews); at least if history does in fact have a tendency to repeat itself.
We need to let some of these groups who hate each other fight each other just to "bleed" all this hatred out. We might want to be careful some of the blood doesn't run into our yard.
Is this the problem which brings us into the fight? Should we, instead, focus on damning our yards or is that impossible?
Otherwise, we be "up the creek with no paddle."
Mom's adivce: "Fish, or cut bait!"
Let's take the Italian way: "Forget about it!" The race is on tv! It's great to be an American, no?
Totten, through omission, concedes a major point to Ygelsias. Yes, Fatah was horrendously corrupt and barely a "party" while Hamas was clearly on the ascendancy. Why then was the Bush administration so shocked that Hamas won? How could they not have foreseen that obvious alternative? Ygelsias may be some sort of snot-nosed "progressive" but he's dead right that this was mind-bogglingly stoopid on the part of the President. Condi Rice even admitted that they hadn't thought of the outcme!
There was a strange blindspot about Hamas within certain sectors of the Bush administration that National Review's Andrew McCarthy picked up:
http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200504141206.asp
Blatantly clear warning signs were ignored because the Bush admin., and a large portion of the most unschooled elements of the conservative movement were bewitched by the liberal/Trotskyite notion of global democratic revolution. No wonder Victor Davis Hanson complained at that time:
Hanson added that a number of conservative colleagues with whom he's recently spoken think that Bush has "flipped his lid" on foreign policy, that the president is "drunk on Wilsonian idealism."
http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/right_hook/2005/02/28/torture/index.html
Welcom to the hangover.
reocon:
Who is it bad for when Hamas wins an election?
Stability in the region? What stability.
Israel's security? I would suggest it is better now than it has been for a long time. At least to the south.
Palestinians? Yes it is bad for them. Hmmm.
Europe? This event has done more to change the perception of the Palestinians than almost any other event.
US? Maybe the State Department had their polite pieties shattered. Too bad.
Probably by mistake this event has clarified the issues in the middle east. For years everything you heard coming out of that region was either a white or a blatant lie. Middle East Peace Protest anyone?
Yes it's ugly. But it is an ugly problem. Now we know how ugly.
Derek
good work keep it up...
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Reocon,
I hardly think you have a right to level those charges at an administration that has steadfastly overlooked the impossibility of winning conflicts while holding MULTIPLE Enemy Sanctuaries Harmless, Ignoring Gen Abizaid's warning to this effect even as he lead the effort from Baghdad.
Have tolerance for the retarded!
Some fiddle in the corner of blogworld while the Country Burns:
Turn Up the Heat
As Congress heads out for Memorial Day, the immigration bill continues to enjoy bipartisan support in the Senate. We hope congressmen are challenged on the details of the bill at their events back home.
We suspect that, compared with the Washington press corps, constituents will demand more candor and less cant.
If they do, they will find that the bill’s contents don’t match its promises.
The Bush-Kennedy deal that supporters talk about is exquisitely balanced:
Immigration laws will be more seriously enforced, in return for a “path to citizenship” for 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants.
In reality, illegal immigrants are far more interested in legal status than in citizenship. The bill gives them that immediately. (It is a prize available only to those aliens who have violated our immigration laws.)
The enforcement provisions in the bill, meanwhile, are meaningless.
At Thursday’s press conference, President Bush declared, “So this legislation requires that border-security and worker-verification targets are met before other provisions of the bill are triggered.”
That is untrue.
Illegal aliens can get “probationary” legal status as soon as the bill is enacted.
NRO Editors
This comment has been removed by the author.
With all due respect, imho, the tone and tenor this blog apes that ot the Dude who Fiddled while Rome burned.
To avoid this, I would keep Terrye's post at the top of the heap until someone else posts on the immigration issue.
Thank you, Terrye, for expressing your view on the single most important issue facing us today in terms of the future survival of this country as we know it.
As you know, I disagree w/you chapter and verse! ;-)
PS
The reason I consider this urgent is the extremely short time horizon on this issue.
If our corrupt non-leaders pass this Bill, you can kiss your children's future goodbye in terms of enjoying the blessings of freedom and opportunity we did, fought, sacrificed, and died for by OUR unparalleled ancestors.
Thank you for your tolerance and forbearance.
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