Wednesday, April 04, 2007

A Burning Issue

When is burning an American flag more than just bad taste. Glenn Reynolds knows: "what makes it a crime is that the flag belonged to someone else -- and was, in fact, attached to that someone else's house at the time..."

The three men, all of foreign origin, were charged with offenses ranging from reckless endangerment to arson and were held in jail Tuesday night after a judge refused to release them without bail.

According to the newspaper, the New Haven police said the men — two freshmen and a senior — first attracted police attention at about 3 a.m. Tuesday when they asked two offcers for directions back to their residence. They were identified as Said Hyder Akbar, 23, Nikolaos Angelopoulos, 19, and Farhad Anklesaria, also 19.

The moral of the story is never ask the police for directions. Or maybe it's something else. Arson, eh.


Blogger Pierre Legrand said...

Well its ok to burn flags even when they are attached to someone elses home because their need to display their first amendment rights outweighs the rights of property.

Need is everything these days. It even justifies Giuliani funding abortions for women too poor to afford them. Oops.

Need trumps all...pretty soon the Islamic nutjobs will figure that out and we will really be in trouble.
Giuliani has been trying to slide by on abortion…today he got cornered. Oops.

4/04/2007 08:19:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Seems everyone's tryin to slide somewhere these days.
Around Baghdad today, there’s a notable increase in the presence of armored vehicles on the streets, — and I mean heavy armor. Humvees are usually everywhere. Stryker vehicles come second and are quite occasionally spotted. The much more serious Bradley’s and tanks are usually quite rare, but today they too are abundant particularly in Rasafa, the eastern half of the Baghdad.

We’ve witnessed patrols of three to four Bradley vehicles rumbling through the streets; at times passing the same street more than a few times. Exactly what this increase in activity portends is always difficult to know until afterwards. The security forces do not share their motives and movements beforehand...

4/05/2007 12:27:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Sorry, that's from Iraq the Model and at PJ.

4/05/2007 12:28:00 AM  
Blogger Tyler said...

Interesting that these were foreign born students (I think one had a US passport but was born in Pakistan). Can you imagine if a US student studying at the American University in Cairo burned a flag there? He'd already be hanging from the gallows.

As it is, these students will probably receive hot shot lawyers from Yale so that the school doesn't look too bad, and they will try and hush this as much as possible.

Amazing that Yale is actively recruiting students who absolutely hate America. Kinda like the Taliban man they admitted. When the NY Times broke that story, Yale's dean of admissions talked about how hard they worked to get him because they "had another foreigner of Rahmatullah's caliber" but "we lost him to Harvard." I wonder if Rahmatullah knew these students who burned the flag?

4/05/2007 04:40:00 AM  
Blogger pst314 said...

"Yale is actively recruiting students who absolutely hate America"

Birds of a feather...and I say that based in part on the many academics I have known.

4/05/2007 05:07:00 AM  
Blogger CatoRenasci said...

As tyler points out, these students - taking up spaces at one of the most elite universities in America - were all foreigners, though one was a Pakistani with American citizenship. The lessons of America obviously did not take with him.

What to do? Well, it's easy with the foreign nationals: give them a choice between immediate deportation and a permanent ban on entry into the US, or conviction of a felony (they seem to have admitted it), some serious jail time, and then deportation with a very slim chance of ever being let back into the US.

As for the Pakistani with an American passport, some serious investigation should be done concerning how he acquired his citizenship. For him, deportation is only an option if his citizenship can be revoked. So, he needs to be convicted of a felony (bye-bye right to own a gun, or to vote in most states) and spend some time in jail before he goes back to Yale.

4/05/2007 06:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Doug: We’ve witnessed patrols of three to four Bradley vehicles rumbling through the streets; at times passing the same street more than a few times.

American troops are dying at a rate of 900 per year. Expeditures have risen from $4.4 billion to $8.4 billion without a corresponding decrease in the overall rate of violence (even if there are temporary local successes following tactical shifts in emphasis). Cities that are pacified to much fanfare must be retaken, sometimes several times. The Bush Administration has resorted to a policy of "kill the messenger", sacking any general who admits we cannot win another country's civil war and putting in place the lone general who thinks we can win this civil war, General Petraeus. One by one, our allies in the "Coalition of the Willing" have dropped out, and we are even witnessing the gradual departure of the United Kingdom from the southern theater. Bush got congressional authority to wage war on Iraq by certifying that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction and posed an existential threat to the United States, yet the WMDs were revealed to be a chimera and the only existential threat is to the Republican Party itself, as more and more Americans grow weary of the war.

4/05/2007 06:34:00 AM  
Blogger Towering Barbarian said...

"American troops are dying at a rate of 900 per year..."

And *how* many died per year in all the other wars, Teresita? Hmmm? o_O

Please refresh our memory! :P

4/05/2007 06:53:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

You can have your own opinion but you cannot have your own facts. Try reading the actual Congressional Resolution authorizing use of force in Iraq sometimes. If you are incapable of that then try looking at a map of the region. Any clue on the meaning of strategic geography?

4/05/2007 06:57:00 AM  
Blogger buck smith said...

I will answer TP's question to Teresita. For the entire history of the US before 9-11, the everage death rate of US soldiers in war was 17 per day. This is the number averaged across all 220-odd years. Since 9-11 the death is about 2 per day.

4/05/2007 07:01:00 AM  
Blogger Yashmak said...

buck, tsk tsk. How uncivil of you to expect teresita to conduct a relative examination of her information before posting it!

"Expeditures have risen from $4.4 billion to $8.4 billion "

Making it one of the cheapest wars in our history, in terms of percentage of GDP.

"One by one, our allies in the "Coalition of the Willing" have dropped out. . ."

Which was the plan, if I recall correctly.

"Bush got congressional authority to wage war on Iraq by certifying that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction and posed an existential threat to the United States, yet the WMDs were revealed to be a chimera and the only existential threat is to the Republican Party itself, as more and more Americans grow weary of the war."

Well, he got congressional authority by virtue of the votes of many senators/congressmen who certified that Iraq had WMD's, based on the same information Bush had available. . .but it's easier to blame him if you say "he certified this, or that". If the Dems continue in the manner they are conducting themselves now, they will perpetuate the alienation of our military, who will feel betrayed. The far left-ers already fell betrayed that their new Democratic congress hasn't done more to end the conflict. I contend that if this situation persists, the Dems will find the existential threat that Iraq poses, is to their party. . .not the Republicans.

4/05/2007 08:00:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

I do not favor laws that would forbid flag burning as a menas of protest - as long as it applies to your own flag.

However, I do favor laws - or even a Constitutional Amendment - that would permit you to absolutely kick the crap out of anyone caught burning the U.S. flag.

After all, if First Amendment Rights are so important, how can you exercise yours to protest a flag burning? There is no way to "unburn" a flag - and I have a right to express my views as much as the flag burners do, maybe more - I got guns.

Now, for the flag of the Confederacy, State flags, military service banners, POW flags etc, the counterprotest allowed should be somewhat less intense. Say, being tied to the rear bumper of my pickup and forced to run behind it - in 4 wheel drive - off-road - for 4 or 5 miles - in the rain - at night - in December - uphill - carrying a John Deere lawn tractor.

4/05/2007 08:16:00 AM  
Blogger PeterBoston said...

Between General Congresswoman Pelosi's idiot pronouncements on her Mideast trip and the gaggling gang display of near lunacy on the View one has to wonder if today's women are really capable of handling serious and consequential matters.

4/05/2007 08:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Carter, Gore and most of the leftist MSM and Hollywood king-and-conscience makers aren't female--- or are they?

The View is an abomination whose only saving grace is that its participants talk over each other, making it impossible to figure out what they're trying to say. I've set my TV to zap anyone who even turns that show (of chatty/catty imbecility) on. I can manufacture enough of that on my own :)

Pelosi is the face of today's "America Last" Dem Party, to include males and females. Hillary is its Machiavellian-Marxist-"me first" mind.

4/05/2007 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

I always giggle a little bit when these furriners get hauled into court for their various misdeeds. Invariably they are described as "stunned" - as if the full weight of the American justice system has just sat on their chest and they can't believe they're actually going to be held responsible for their actions.


I wonder if CAIR will have any words of wisdom for us overly-sensitive Americans.

4/05/2007 11:21:00 AM  
Blogger Soldier's Dad said...

"Yale is actively recruiting students who absolutely hate America"

Yale is in a really run down neighborhood. If one wants to get an Ivy League education and simultaneously experience the joys of the 3rd world...then Yale is the University of choice.

4/05/2007 11:51:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

Free speech must be protected. Mind if I burn MY cross on your front yard?

4/05/2007 11:55:00 AM  
Blogger 3Case said...

Sec. 53a-112. Arson in the second degree: Class B felony.

(a) A person is guilty of arson in the second degree when, with intent to destroy or damage a building, as defined in section 53a-100, (1) he starts a fire or causes an explosion and (A) such act subjects another person to a substantial risk of bodily injury; or (B) such fire or explosion was intended to conceal some other criminal act; or (C) such fire or explosion was intended to subject another person to a deprivation of a right, privilege or immunity secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of this state or of the United States; or (2) a fire or explosion was caused by an individual hired by such person to start such fire or cause such explosion.

(b) Arson in the second degree is a class B felony.

4/05/2007 11:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I’m all for keeping flag burning legal. It’s more offensive for being so mindless.

At least papier mache protest puppets and Bushitler signs require a little artwork and spelling effort on the part of developmentally delayed, delinquent types.

4/05/2007 12:25:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Buck Smith - I will answer TP's question to Teresita. For the entire history of the US before 9-11, the everage death rate of US soldiers in war was 17 per day. This is the number averaged across all 220-odd years. Since 9-11 the death is about 2 per day.

While it might give pause to some females and nanny Lefties now blubbering about the "unendurable" number of dead, Buck's stats are strongly skewed by 4 intense high-casualty, short-lived wars - the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea.

A more apt stat is comparing Bush's "horrific, unacceptable" casualties to peacetime Presidencies that didn't have Lefties demanding the right to wail and mourn over the coffins of "the troops they love so much!!".

The rate of US military fatalities was 4 times greater under Eisenhower, 5 times greater under JFK's peacetime, twice as much military died each year in Carter's time - than under the Evil Bush-Hitler.
Even Clinton averaged slightly more than 1 dead soldier a day.

Females in particular, but more and more people in America with absolutely no connection to the military or any grounding in statistical comparison purely think of this in emotional terms and as the masters of Soviet Agitprop in the US media intended - have become demoralized by efforts to "individualize" each death as something each family is obligated to feel as emotionally as a family member loss.

The American ignorance of actual risk is staggering.

The military is not in the top of riskiest careers - like commercial fishing, long haul trucking, tunnel workers, etc. Not in the risk level of "lifestyle" activities like regular motor cycle riding , drug dealing gang member, or gay prostitute.

The military, even under the Evil Bush-Hitler, is safer than that. But it is still a risky deal even in peacetime. You mission-train as if you are doing war, you are surrounded by fast-moving, high energy systems intended to hurt and kill people or move you in position to do so in training or field conditions no civilians as exposed to, or exposed to as much. And until Reagan's modernization and safety reforms, there was perhaps too much DOD acceptance of low safety consciousness.

No American aircraft carrier has ever deployed without at least one crew death. No Army division has ever gone a year without fatalities.

I blame the bumbling, inarticulate Bush and a sadly expensive but off-message military PR Department still thinking selling the military as an alternate image of a winning sports team - for failing to break through the Soviet Agit-prop media, duplicitous Lefties, and ignorant females seeking to nanny and protect the poor children in uniform.

And for failing to committ the resources to a long war in terms of the economic, diplomatic, strategic communications resources, and VA rehab services needed in favor of tax cuts for the wealthy and reshaping our economy so gains go mostly to the Ruling Elites - in a time of War. And for failing to do anything to equip America with the training and education needed for critical language, cultural, and ROTC skills.

So political disasters, well-deserved, keep hitting the Bushies for such management failures. What? Large numbers of serious rehab cases from Iraq are there from hideous maimings by Iranian IEDs, the soil of Iraq is full of bacteria resistant to antibiotics? There are high numbers of stress disorder cases? And VA facilities are defunded and consolidated under BRAC to "save money"??

But "if only Sharansky democracy had worked for the noble purple fingered freedom lovers in the security and power vacuum we assumed would give birth to a ME version of secular America" - no one would have objected...

Gee, go figure! Fucking Bushie morons!


On the Yale flag-burners...I hope the owner publicly refuses a replacement flag from Yale on the grounds it likely was spit on, on campus. And he asks Yale to consider how pervasive anti-Americanism by faculty and staff might have incited the two Islamoids and the Greek to desecrate a homeowner's flag.

The best thing to do, IMO, is to completely bypass the ACLU and Left lawyers that will try to make the three "heroes" or dismiss the incident as a "student prank gone awry". You prosecute them for 2nd degree felony arson and second degree felony reckless endangerment - plus tresspassing, plus some old CT blue law on the books about desecrating another person's "possessions and symbols of unique value".

Then offer them a choice of being expelled from the US as undesirable aliens, including the dual citizen Paki we stupidly gave naturalized citizenship to. Yale simultaneously expells them as students and refuses to let the anti-Americans get a degree through Yale abroad. And the two Islamoids and the Greek compensate the homeowner for all expenses.

No trial. Just leave. Go. Get out of our country.

And perhaps Yale considers giving the 3 spots to loyal American Vets that would benefit greatly from the prestige of a Yale education and would use that education not for the betterment of American-hating forces, but our own nation.

4/05/2007 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

I asked a cop for directions one time, I had to because my brakes were locking up so it was kind of hassle driving in cross-town traffic in Manhattan. (What with the Mrs. 'advising' me in the passenger seat.)

So I ask the cop, "Officer, where is a gas station with a garage around here?"

The Cop says, "I don't know, I'm not from around here, I'm from Brooklyn. My advice would be to get through the tunnel and over to Jersey."

4/05/2007 03:12:00 PM  
Blogger Peter Grynch said...

Texas can show us the way. In Texas the law states that you can use lethal force to defend your property. A case in point was a Repo Man shot dead by a homeowner in Houston who thought the guy was stealing his car which was parked in his driveway. The car owner was never charged with a crime.

Compare this to the fate of New York's Subway Vigilante, Bernard Getz, and ask yourself which state you'd rather live in.

4/05/2007 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger Stephen Renico said...

I once heard that a Parish in Louisiana, upon reflecting that it was impossible to ban flag-burning, decided instead to make the battering of a person burning a flag an offense punishable by a $5 fine.

For once- innovation in legislature.

4/05/2007 03:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


4/05/2007 04:10:00 PM  
Blogger Chavo said...

Actually, it's pretty funny. Asking directions to the place where you gonna burn someone else's flag! It's like trying to collect on your deposit for the rental truck you blew up in the world trade center basement.

Has anyone ever noticed how easy it is to get a flag from the US or Israel (or any Western nation for that matter) in the ME.

I for one would have an extremely hard time finding a Iranian flag or a...

Dutch flag for the matter.

Anyway, stupid is as stupid does.

4/05/2007 05:45:00 PM  
Blogger Peter Grynch said...

Here's my very favorite flag burning picture...

4/06/2007 06:36:00 AM  
Blogger Peter Grynch said...

Link didn't work. Try this...

4/06/2007 06:38:00 AM  
Blogger Peter Grynch said...

Three's a charm...

If that doesn't work, I give up!

4/06/2007 06:44:00 AM  
Blogger tckurd said...

Peter: owwwwie

Those flags are generally made of a nylon thread.

As a child, I nearly burned my left hand off playing with matches and nylon rope.

It's like napalm.

And, it doesn't go out, and it doesn't stop hurting.

Poor guy... that may have led to disfigurement.

4/06/2007 07:43:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

If you're gonna ask for directions, stop at a fire house and ask the firefighters.

They're terribly eager to assist, are usually bored and looking for something to do, are intimately familiar with the neighborhood, and there's a firehouse on every other corner.

Of course, if they catch you burning a flag, they're also less likely to be civilized about it than a cop has to be.

4/06/2007 10:17:00 AM  
Blogger rickl said...


Well, Lincoln went through a lot of generals before he found one who "thought we could win this civil war".

4/07/2007 11:51:00 PM  

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