Not Far From Bethlehem
Here are some pictures from the recent conference trip to Israel, representing different aspects of the country. One is a picture of a street in the Old City of Jerusalem. The second shows the Med coast from a 12th story hotel window. The third is an illustration of how Globalization has come to the Holy City: you too can dine at the Abu Ali's and Fat Ho restaurant. I wonder what cuisine they serve. The fourth shows a scene on the Gaza border looking out across No-Man's Land toward where the Other waits. Waits possibly for the wrong thing. But maybe the right thing is already there at hand but for our blindness. To most of us, a child is born; and the joys of childhood and parenthood all run together. Let's go out and cherish those who love us all of our natural days.
posted by wretchardthecat at 12/22/2006 09:17:00 PM
161 Comments:
Merry Christmas Wretchard.
God bless you and yours.
what woudl jesus celebrate right now?
ah yes...chanukah..
8 crazy days of gambling and military victory over the assyrians..
now if there was no chanukah, there certainly could not be a jesus..
What is Occupation said, "...now if there was no chanukah, there certainly could not be a jesus.."
On the contrary, it is written (John 8:58) "Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
Mega Multicultural Secular Creed-neutral WinterFest Dittos to All
Wretchard,
I've been there - what a wonderful experience.
I think I posted here about it, so I won't repeat it, but suffice it to say it was perhaps 8 of the best days of my life. I wanted to stay.
Triton
What is Occupation said, "...now if there was no chanukah, there certainly could not be a jesus.."
wc: On the contrary, it is written (John 8:58) "Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
Again, if there was no Chanukah, Jesus would not been born, as for your "faith" that Jesus was "god" or whatever in some hinterworld has NO baring on this real world...
If there was no Chanukah, the JEWS WOULD HAVE PERISHED FROM THE EARTH.
And your "god" or whatever would have NEVER walked as a JEW on earth...
thus NEVER giving you your "faith" since christianity COULD NEVER have been...
Happy Hanukah STILL
If you CHOOSE to have belief's that "jesus" (no "J" in Hebrew" was actually:
Choose anyone or combo of the following:
the Promised Jewish Messiah, (that the entire Jewish Nation was to recognize)
god walking on earth
perfect "sacrifice" (not as good as lamb chops but it's your faith not mine)
then Jesus (or whatever his name was) MUST have had to actually BE on this planet... (not in heaven or 5th dimension or whereever)
so whether your faith is correct or incorrect about jesus being before Abraham in some position as god or part of god or the god...
He had to exist as the CORE point of christian faith, as a HUMAN jew and Die as a LIVE HUMAN JEW and was (according to Christian doctrines, came back to LIFE as something.....
SO LET'S ALL THANK JUDA MACABEE (THE HAMMER), since it is STILL Hanukah for saving all Jews from his moment in history forward....
For without Chanukah... There would be No HUMAN jesus to Be the "Christian Jewish messiah/sacrifice/son of god"
If I may interject...of the many attributes within love is protect.
Merry Christmas and may God be with you to all now out on the line, to all who have ever been out on the line, and to all who are out on the line someday.
Semper Fi.
Maligayang Pasko at manigong bagong taon!
Wretchard, your pix are on the darkside. May I suggest setting your camera to overexpose by +1 stop. My digital camera tends to underexpose by a full stop as well, so mine is also set to "overexpose" by +1 stop.
Also, often times I set my camera to auto-bracket, that is when I take a photo it shoots off three shots at -1 stop, even, and +1 stop. So one shot is going to be darker, one even, and one brighter, this way I am sure I get a good exposure. In the days when we do not have to pay for film & processing it makes even more sense.
Thanks for the lovely seasonal post, there, WiO.
Wretchard thanks for this post - this is a good time to express appreciation to your Belmont Club and the conversation you keep flowing.
Around this time of year (maybe) and in the area where you are at someone once said:
Peace on earth, goodwill towards men
Das said, "Around this time of year (maybe) and in the area where you are at someone once said: Peace on earth, goodwill towards men"
Except in Iraq, unless we want to be painted as a cut and runner.
the Christmas Truce
Good advice from Promethea, for us all. And if Carter is an insult to Jewry, just think what an embarrassment he is to Christianity.
God is not in any ancient Jerusalem Holy Building. And unlike the Islamists, niether did he defecate there.
What is Occupation,
It is the season of Chanukah, in that light I like to think:
___The many peoples and the multitude of nations shall come to seek the LORD of Hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD. Thus said the LORD of Hosts: In those days, ten men from nations of every tongue will take hold—they will take hold of every Jew by a corner of his cloak and say, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”
Zechariah 8:22-23
WiO, consider: “ten” and “corner”. Smile.
___And the many peoples shall go and say, “Come, let us go up to the Mount of the LORD, to the House of the God of Jacob; That He may instruct us in His ways, and that we may walk in His paths.” For instruction shall come forth from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
___Thus He will judge among the nations and arbitrate for the many peoples, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not take up sword against nation; they shall never again know war.
Isaiah 2: 3,4
WiO, “Le Shana Haba B'yerushalayim”
To our Christian friends, “Merry Christmas”!
Well, we're reminded of Elijah (chariot of fire) and now Isaiah. Who will be next? I vote for Jeremiah.
And, Happy Hannukah to all our Jewish friends, and to the brave and heroic little David, the state of Israel, standing now yet again against Goliath.
Try saying Habakkuk three times fast.
Hehe. I'm having the silliest time imaging Olmert as David standing up the Ahmadinjihad the Goliath.
Mat, try picturing Achmadinejad on a stepladder--that oughtta help.
Three times fast, aloud, nothing is as impossible as "yellow leather".
oops: ..standing up ^to..
buddy,
What size step-ladder? It could be embarrassing as you can well imagine.
Habakkuk--let's see, quick wiki, he told the story of rescuing Daniel from the Lion's Den in Babylon?
Mat,
Olmert the Supine?
Well, if we can't picture the Evil Shrimp on a ladder, then we have to picture Olmert standing in a deep hole. And that's just where he is, actually, courtesy of the west's sweetness, love, and idiocy.
i aint bitter, just correcting WC's tendency to minimize the actual Jewish contributions to her chosen faith.
One who claims to be educated cannot simply erase Jews and israel at the (good) root of israel david the temple torah and simply think that somehow islam and christianity (no matter how much distortion has occured) was created in a vacuum.
to all peoples of the world happy chanukah...
to all christians that profess faith in my cousin (no matter his real name or birthdate) and his ethical teachings... thank Hillel and Shammai....
and BEFORE anyone reacts that DOES NOT KNOW HILLEL OR SHAMMAI...
GOOGLE BAVEL, HILLEL, SHAMMAI & Rabbinic Judaism
Judah the Hammer
Ehud the Pene
Ronald Reagan was a great believer in Hillel's Prayer.
That's about as pain-drenched a statement as I think I can stand to contemplate.
The origin of the name Olmert is not known, even to the members of the family. Olmert was kidnapped as a young child by the Tsar’s army and forced to serve in it for 25 years. When finally released, he settled in the city of Samara on the River Volga, and when asked for his name, he gave it as Olmert.
Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times. One only needs to turn off the lights.
If the lights are 'on', how can it be dark? Only if one's eyes are shut. So happiness is in choosing to not see?
Promethea said...
Last night I went to sleep thinking about the Ron Rosenbaum article on Pajamas Media and linked by Dr. Sanity. I was quite depressed, thinking that if Iran nukes and destroys Israel, us remaining Jews should just say F**kit and disappear into the general populations of our various countries. No more Jews.
well think how easy a life... No anti-semitism, just say yes to hedionism and jesus and most importantly CHEESEBURGERS and BABYBACK RIBS..
wow... such a life!
Let the Borg-like Islamic creeping darkness take over the earth.
it is...
Who cares, after such a tragedy, that the human race survives or is happy and free?
I am close to being in that spot... let europe burn, after all they did it to themselves.. Let the arab world de-evolve into beetles... Let asia and africa overbreed and die out via darwin and survival of the fittest.
Maybe jews need to just live up to the worst nightmare's of our enemies and become invisible.
THINK of the strings we could pull....
But no, we are too stubborn for that... I make a prediction that for many years I did not comprehend or BELIEVE but now I do understand and believe...
Do harm to Israel and the Jewish people at your own risk or peril...
ALLAH/Budda/G-d/Jesus will kick your ass like NEVER before
just ask ANY of Israel's (israel as in the jewish people) enemies of history...
No. I believe Dostoevsky had it right. We were put here to suffer. It's our way to redemption.
How long, O LORD, shall I cry out
And you not listen,
Shall I shout to You, “Violence!”
And You not save?
The LORD answered me and said:
Write the prophecy down,
Inscribe it clearly on tablets,
So that it can be read easily.
For [the prophecy is a witness] for a set term,
A truthful witness for a time that will come.
Even if it tarries, wait for it still;
For it will surely come, without delay:...
Though the olive crop has failed
And the fields produce no grain,
Though sheep have vanished from the fold
And no cattle are in the pen,
Yet will I rejoice in the LORD,
Exult in the God who delivers me.
My Lord GOD is my strength:
He makes my feet like the deer’s
And lets me stride upon the heights.
___Habakkuk
What is Occupationmeister wrote, "Do harm to Israel and the Jewish people at your own risk or peril...ALLAH / Budda / G-d / Jesus will kick your ass like NEVER before...just ask ANY of Israel's (israel as in the jewish people) enemies of history..."
Uh, right, that's why Hezbollah is right back up to the same operational strength they had before they attacked Israel earlier this same year.
wc: Uh, right, that's why Hezbollah is right back up to the same operational strength they had before they attacked Israel earlier this same year.
spoken like a typical short term thinker...
let's look at the "israeli" loss...
hezboollahbitches shoot 4300 rockets and can barely murder 44 israelis (25% arabs to boot)
that's about 100 rockets per dead jew, no army in the world (next to the palestinians suck this much)
Israel caused about 7 BILLION dollars in damage to southern lebanon
israel has caused the productivity of lebanon to plummet
israel has caused iran and syria to spend billions of dollars to re-arm hezbollloah
israel destroyed a billion dollars worth of bunkers of iran, opps hezbollah
israel dispelled the MYTH of hezbollah as an effective FIGHTING force since the truth is Israel did not LOOSE anything they choose not to conquer.
as for "operational strength" how many hezbollahbitches were killed? 600? 1/3 of thier best battletested troops?
and let's face facts madam, BEFORE the war Iran COUNTED on hezbollah as a deterrent threat, now that "threat" is shall we say, "shooting blanks"
let's continue... Lebanon now is going thru the exposure of a cancer deciding to either kill the host or the host kill it.. this is good
Dont look so short term, I am sure the real G-d of the Hebrews doesnt, the arab world/islamic world is not thriving..
After the summer's war Israel's tourist trade came back as did it's economy, please tell me oh wise one, what arab or islamic nation (minus oil) is doing per capita even close to israel's
Just because the IMPODENT hezbollah has replaced the destroyed it's non-effective muntions doesnt mean those that hurt israel (or it's people) will not get a boot in thier ass in the long run..
Now, on to other fun facts about hezbollah, many lebanese are questioning what right did hezbollah have in creating foriegn policy for lebanon? They are angry. Will this be another civil war? after all, what has lebanon gained from thier war with g-d's 1st born? Destruction, loss of incomes, showing the world how incompetent they are?
In all fairness yes, hezbollah murdered/killed 150 or so israelis...
at what price?
I once mentioned to a high ranking PLO official that maybe after watching the uprising for a few years that the arabs should seek a different way to make a living, after all compared to 1 hour of nazi germany they really suck at being warriors and they SUCK at being warriors against JEWS...
now that sucks....
Remember WWJD... he'd be spinning a driedel and gambling right now about 2k years ago...
Promethea
"....if Iran nukes and destroys Israel, us remaining Jews should just say F**kit and disappear into the general populations of our various countries...."
Suggest you might read the Harry Turtledove alternate history novel "In the Presence of Mine Enemies" in which the Nazis win both WWII and WWIII and exactly what you suggest happens.
But Judism is part and parcel of, one of the foundations of, Western thought. It will not be killed unless they kill all of us. I am confused both by Christians who see Jewish people as "The Other" and Jewish people who view us Gentiles similarly. And I, as Gentile as they come, have a Hebrew word as my last name.
In Methodist teachings Jewish people are seen as the elder race of Christianity, religious cousins if not actual brothers.
And I guess what I am saying in the end is that to get to you they will have to come through me.
Shalom!
And if need be, it will be the peace of the graveyard.
Buddy Larsen:
If you're still lurking my friend, you have email!
Triton
tb68, Thanks for your tale of Christmas and redemption. For some reason, W's pictures this a.m. brought me the thought that the line is always there. Then came the reflection on the greatness of heart of those who are, were or will ever be out on it.
A day spent at my local mall (last night, too) reminds me of how easily the line becomes invisible...yet it is still there. Watching the mall reminds me of the strange glory and complex beauty of that which the line protects.
Promethea, The jihadis trifle with Hell on Earth...they may yet bring it upon themselves. Israel can be dented. I doubt it can be destroyed. I do not believe the answer will be within our lifetimes.
While too late as stocking stuffers, these would make excellent gifts for those determined to make the New Year more tolerant and enlightened.
Worth Saving: Essential books for understanding Christianity
Link
for Buddy Larsen:
Jeremiah 8:10-15
10 ...for from the least even unto the greatest every one is greedy for gain, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
11 And they have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people lightly, saying: 'Peace, peace', when there is no peace.
.
.
.
15 We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of healing, and behold terror!
Taken out of context, naturally :)
Holiday Greetings from Ronbo
Isaiah 7:
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
sorry there is no word in this passage that says virgin...
sorry the passage doesn't say we will call him jesus, david, alfred or sam..
Since someone wants to quote Jewish Scriptures to support another's religion here is a response:
http://search.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Why_Jews_Dont_Believe_In_Jesus.asp?s=g&k=jesus
3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS
Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.
A. VIRGIN BIRTH
The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.
B. SUFFERING SERVANT
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."
In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. Throughout Jewish scripture, Israel is repeatedly called, in the singular, the "Servant of God" (see Isaiah 43:8). In fact, Isaiah states no less than 11 times in the chapters prior to 53 that the Servant of God is Israel. When read correctly, Isaiah 53 clearly [and ironically] refers to the Jewish people being "bruised, crushed and as sheep brought to slaughter" at the hands of the nations of the world. These descriptions are used throughout Jewish scripture to graphically describe the suffering of the Jewish people (see Psalm 44). Isaiah 53 concludes that when the Jewish people are redeemed, the nations will recognize and accept responsibility for the inordinate suffering and death of the Jews.
For further reading, go to: http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-ss.html
Though I will agree that it is the responsibility of all citizens to become educated...blaming the MSM simply won't cut it. If we know what is going on then the broader public has no excuse.
[The US] education system has created a middle class which has developed a mental woekflow" which goes something like this: skim the "textbook" and absorb the bullet points for exam purposes as quickly as possible so you can get back to the stuff that really matters, like the Trump/Rosie fracas, frinstance.
This is how we "educate" ourselvs via TV these days. A brie fstop at CNN to soak up the talking points, maybe a fill-up of conventional wisdom and sardonic chuckles at Comedy central, then on to the game shows, the Survivors or American Idols or ET...
What is Occupation said, "hezboollahbitches shoot 4300 rockets and can barely murder 44 israelis (25% arabs to boot)...that's about 100 rockets per dead jew, no army in the world (next to the palestinians suck this much)"
And in this age of WMDs, no army in the world, other than the IDF led by Ehud "Take Judea and Samaria, please!" Olmert, would tolerate ONE rocket crossing their border and falling on their civilian population...not even Japan.
Porker,
As a fellow Heb (and an evil Zionazi Israeli one at that), I tell you that what you're doing is offensive and you should stop. Live and let live.
hag same'ah lekulam
(Happy Holiday to all)
wc: And in this age of WMDs, no army in the world, other than the IDF led by Ehud "Take Judea and Samaria, please!" Olmert, would tolerate ONE rocket crossing their border and falling on their civilian population...not even Japan.
Let's see if your position holds water...
Olmert did not tolerate as you so put "one" rocket...
Israel bombed the crap out of southern lebanon, or did you ignore that part of my statement?
did you not read how israel destroyed 6 BILLION in lebanese infrastructure? bridges? Hezbollah buildings in beruit? Killed 1000 (while trying not to kill civilians)
please oh wise one, what part of the WAR that the UN, Europe, Russia and Africa called DISPROPORTIONATE did not address the concept of hezbollah shooting rockets?
So you are saying that all other nations in the world will respond to any rocket will complete and total destruction of thier enemies? Interesting point...
thanks by the way for ignoring all the other points i corrected you on...
Mətušélaḥ said...
Porker,
As a fellow Heb (and an evil Zionazi Israeli one at that), I tell you that what you're doing is offensive and you should stop. Live and let live.
hag same'ah lekulam
(Happy Holiday to all)
You should be more specific as to how I am being offensive...
Since most things are offensive to someone, please be more pointed and I shall consider it.
I for one ONLY respond to other people's posts.
So without getting my panties in a knot, please be MORE specific as to your concerns...
Promethea said...
Methusalah . . .
I agree that Porker is being offensive and should stop.
Without the Christian faith and practicing Christians, there will be only unending darkness. Faithful Christians are the ones who can keep morality alive, if they choose to do so.
Now that is a can or worms...
How should i respond....
Without the Christian faith and practicing Christians...
wow...
I am trying not to be honest and give a history lesson of 1600 yrs of christian "love practiced upon my people....
So I will LIE...
Yes, the last 1600 yrs of Christian behavior / The Church towards Jews has been wonderful and I could NOT envision life without them....
OPEN THE POD BAY
DOORS, PLEASE, HAL.
HELLO, HAL.
DO YOU READ ME?
HELLO, HAL.
DO YOU READ ME?
DO YOU
READ ME, HAL?
HELLO, HAL.
DO YOU READ ME?
HAL, DO YOU READ ME?
DO YOU READ ME, HAL?
Notice: Since I do not KNOW which of my comments are offensive, I shall assume that everything is...
So I shall stop responding to lies, mistranslations, distortions, false statements, projections and out of context mis-readings by watching what I say because I do not want to offend anyone........
Oh please.....
Now that was funny......
WiO, I appreciate Promethea's and Mat's ecumenical spirit, but my vote is that you should not censor yourself. History is history, and we need to know it, or else the future is that much more dangerous. That said, you are one harsh dude, for a fact.
johnathan levy, ouch, but yes, that was the one, alright--and your postscript taken out of context, naturally :) , good one, LOL!
Buddy,
History is history. I wouldn't spit Nazi history in the face of every German I met, and if someone did that, I'd still find it offensive.
The “Carol Philosophy”
“[A] good time: a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time: the only time I know of in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of other people below them as if they really were fellow-passengers to the grave, and not another race of creature bound on other journeys”.
___Charles Dickens
“And God bless us, everyone!”
Point taken, Mat.
The fine line is an actual contradiction that must be made (by "faith"?) to not contradict--the slightly impossible things, like "forgive and forget", and
"trust, but verify".
Is the operative message to know what has happened, but to yet love the spirit of striving to prevent the past from writing the future?
In 1843 (December 17), “A Christmas Carol in Prose, Being a Ghost Story of Christmas” is published.
In 1843, Benjamin Disraeli leads the Young England party in Parliament.
In 1847, Disraeli’s “Tancred” is published; wherein, he claims an intimate and binding relationship between Judaism and Christianity.
Allen, if you have it handy, why not post--if there is one--the nut graf?
buddy larsen,
re: nut graf
Dickens, Disraeli,...Habakkuk
;-)
Drats!
I’ve misplaced the rope for the trebuchet, my battle-ax is dull, and my trail-mix matza is stale (Is that possible?).
It never fails, just as a guy is ready to do some serious whump-ass, all that comes to hand is the cod-piece.
I got tired of my cod-piece, so I remodeled it as a four-plex condominium.
One man’s nugatory nut graf could be taken from the old German ribald saying, “Don’t s**t in Grandmother’s sewing box.”
Judaism is the theological Grandmother of Christianity.
Christianity is the political Grandmother of Judaism.
Imagine if Israel had to confront simultaneously the forces of hostile Islam and Christianity.
buddy,
re: cod-piece
From your lips to Santa's sleigh!
Buddy Larsen said...
WiO, I appreciate Promethea's and Mat's ecumenical spirit, but my vote is that you should not censor yourself. History is history, and we need to know it, or else the future is that much more dangerous. That said, you are one harsh dude, for a fact.
Buddy,
I seem to remember the fine line in My Fair Lady that said something like this:
Miss Doolittle addressing Prof Higgins:
You treat me terrible because I am of "lower class"..
to which he reponded:
No I treat everyone the same, whether a Duchess or a Flowergirl.
For too many centuries Jews have HAD to hold there tougue under pain of death, expulsion, assault & much much more..
I do try to keep my barbs historic and correct (with some small barbs at C4 for his relentless nonsense when it comes to jewish points of interest.)
To point out that Christianity actual basis is that it TELLS the Jewish people who and what it's Holy Books say is, quite frankly, offensive.
Even after revisionist attempts by BILLIONS of people of the christian faith the Jewish people hold onto thier inheritance of Torah and refuse to allow "other nations" to reinterpret, mis-translate, and change historic jewish ideas and basics.
This CHRISTIIAN Holyday celebrates the Christian people saying who they want/annoint/appoint/select/choose/accept the Promised Jewish Messiah to be, has the Christian world every put on Jewish shoes and walked a mile in our shoes?
Our books/writings stand up to unbelievable standards of accuracy over the THOUSANDS of years they were known to us. From the discussions of the Talmud, from Sinai, from Bavel and back again (the true hobbits tale) the jewish people have been a VERY literate people who certainly have passed down our stories, lore, laws and cultural backpacks to the next generation far better than any outsider could even have a clue about.
This being said, what "the others" (gentiles) do is thier concern and I do not visit young christians on college campuses and try to convert them to bnai noahites, nor to tell christians that they believe wrong and hell awaits...
I have a saying that I invented:
I respect all ethical people inspite of thier stupid childish beliefs, including my own.
Happy Sunday, the 1st day of the week.
Imagine if Israel had to confront simultaneously the forces of hostile Islam and Christianity.
640- 2006
History is history. I wouldn't spit Nazi history in the face of every German I met, and if someone did that, I'd still find it offensive.
germans today do not continue to preach nazism
If i met one i would spit in his face...
Every german I have ever met has taken PAINS to apologize for his ancestors...
I can't address the one of your grievances, WiO, the historical one is what it is.
But your other grievance, the more personal one about your resenting being "told" what your own religion is about--couldn't I say the same thing to you?
IOW, we're discussing two entirely differnt issues here. One, the execrable behavior of man, and two, whether Gentiles have a justifiable right to deify a Jew, and to call his homeland the "Holy Land". You ask "isn't this all a little presumptuous?" and I ask, "compared to what?"
What is Occupation,
Do I understand you to intimate that Israel is under physical attack by Christians?
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"You ask "isn't this all a little presumptuous?" and I ask, "compared to what?""
---
Joy Behar commenting on the Pope?
"Every german I have ever met has taken PAINS to apologize for his ancestors..."
---
Kind of like the Muslims,
...or the French.
"Imagine if Israel had to confront simultaneously the forces of hostile Islam and Christianity."
---
Imagine if the USA had to confront simultaneously JDL and CAIR.
...Actually, you don't HAVE to imagine it.
The nut question:
"Thomas was asleep on his office couch early Tuesday morning when he was awakened by the sound of banging on his door and someone yelling, "The levee broke!" Thomas stood up on his soaked carpet and felt as though he were standing in concrete. He was paralyzed, he later said, by the fear of predictions coming true. Thomas, who had been rescued off the roof of his house in New Orleans during Hurricane Betsy in 1965, had been a city councilman for a dozen years. His specialty is water. He knew all about the studies and reports and dire warnings stacked up on the desks of bureaucrats, he knew about all the relief and reconstruction and restoration projects that had been discussed but never paid for or carried out, and he knew his beloved old city was doomed."
---
Who forgot about them Schoolbuses?
doug, when you write your book, I have your title: "The Porpoise-Driven Life"
Porker,
Judaism is a closed ethnic religious nationalist tribalistic identity. Christianity and Islam are expansionist and imperialistic in their world outlook. But at least the Christians of today are forward looking people, and don't mind our small tribalistic ways as much as they used to. Plus, I happen to like and appreciate a great many of them.
That last sentence is dedicated to Doug. :)
I agree with Mat, it's very difficult to hate EVERYBODY.
Difficult (depends on the weather). But not impossible. :D
Yes, it's a task, but well worth the effort!
(:-D shame on us!)
Besides, Porker, the Christian religion ain't exactly a flash-in-the-pan--it's as old right now as Judaism was when Jesus was born.
The test of time--passed by both.
Islam, 600 years younger than Christianity, is as old as Christianity was in it's worst human-behavior (see Jeremiah, above) phase.
So maybe there's even hope for that lot. 600 years from now, they'll have either evolved dramatically, or will be gone.
For you guys, 600 years is just another day at the office.
Buddy,
Problem is my wife always embarrassed when I squeek with delight.
Heheh. I'll have to take your word for it, Buddy. :D
At least she lets you swim around the pool with a beachball balanced on your nose
You'd better, or I'll grab that beard and take you to the bottom of the pool.
For Mat and his matted beard, obviously.
I would have loved to be a Gecko on the ceiling back when the Sheiks stayed here regularly.
(Is that the ONLY thing that's changed since 9-11?)
At another watering hole:
---
Habu said:
A good deal of the time some on this here blog remind me of this bit of wisdom.
---
A young, well-educated man on a business trip gets on a plane to find himself seated next to an older, weathered man in a western snap shirt, faded jeans and a cowboy hat.
Thinking himself above the old cowboy, the young man decides to make sport of him.
"You know," he says, "I've heard these flights go much more quickly if you strike up a conversation with a fellow passenger. So, let's talk."
The cowboy looks at him wryly and says, "Well I s'pose that'd be all right. What'd ya like to discuss?"
"Oh, I' don't know," says the young man with a hint of sarcasm.
"How about nuclear proliferation?"
"Hmm," says the cowboy, sensing the young man's attempt to belittle
him, "that could be an interesting topic. But, let me ask you a question first.
-- horses, cows, and deer all eat the same stuff --- grass.
Yet, a deer passes little pellets, a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse makes muffins of dried poop.
Why do you suppose that is?"
Dumbfounded, the young man replies,
"I haven't the slightest idea."
"So tell me then," says the cowboy with a smile, "how is it that you feel qualified to discuss nukes when you don't know shit?"
The chlorine would probably do my eyes some good.
cowboy's getting his horse shod, and wanders into the shop where the blacksmith is hammering out his horshoes.
He picks up one, just barely cooled from red-hot, and flings it back on the floor as fast as he can.
Blacksmith smiles, "Still hot?"
Cowboy sez "Naw, it just don't take long to look at a horshoe".
:-)
cowboy's wedding night, he's checking in to the hotel. Clerk smiles, and asks "Do you want the Bridal?" Cowboy sez, "Naw, I'll just hang onto her ears".
Allen said another thread was taken down in a religious war hereabouts?
buddy,
But your other grievance, the more personal one about your resenting being "told" what your own religion is about--couldn't I say the same thing to you?
Actually no, since the concept of THE Jewish Messiah is at the CORE of Jewish beliefs for others to tell Judaism who thier messiah SHOULD be is not the same thing as me telling a christian who tells me this that he or she is incorrect about JEWISH beliefs..
Christians can and do think all kinds of things that have nothing to do with judaism, and that is wonderful, however to suggest that Jewish people are "blind" and do not SEE who thier messiah is and also WHAT that the JEWISH messiah is to be is different.
The jewish messiah was NEVER ment to be the G-d, or born of a virgin and had to BE from the House of David. Lineage is not transfered thru adoption.
However again, Judaism does not condemn non-believers to hell thus being quite different from islam and christian theology
allen:
Do I understand you to intimate that Israel is under physical attack by Christians?
no, i am saying that christianity and islam has been hostile to the jewish people since saul became paul.
are there christians that love israel? sure..
are there christians that say they love jews? sure...
are christian groups still spending 100's of millions a year to missionize jews? yes
is there a respect for jews from islam and christianity to treat jews as equals?
to answer that look to the UN
Buddy Larsen said...
Besides, Porker, the Christian religion ain't exactly a flash-in-the-pan--it's as old right now as Judaism was when Jesus was born.
ok?
The test of time--passed by both.
I'm not so sure that test is a fair test, let's see christianity under a hostile islam for 1600 years a few thousand programs and maybe a inquistion and a crusade to boot, then throw in a few hundred expulsions and THEN let's compare notes
Islam, 600 years younger than Christianity, is as old as Christianity was in it's worst human-behavior (see Jeremiah, above) phase.
actually getting there, yep
So maybe there's even hope for that lot. 600 years from now, they'll have either evolved dramatically, or will be gone.
lol......... ok, let's make a date... 601 yrs from now we will meet and share a bottle of wine, you pick the place
For you guys, 600 years is just another day at the office.
actually that glib statement is quite literal...
Mətušélaḥ said...
Porker,
Judaism is a closed ethnic religious nationalist tribalistic identity.
actually let's all remember RUTH WAS A CONVERT
and has set forth the noahite laws for all the world
stated: Christianity and Islam are expansionist and imperialistic in their world outlook. But at least the Christians of today are forward looking people, and don't mind our small tribalistic ways as much as they used to. Plus, I happen to like and appreciate a great many of them.
christianity HAS lost most of it's lethality thank goodness, islam well need i say anything?
Before I even try to tackle any of that, let me correct my 'blind" remark. Mat had posed a riddle, and "blind" was my answer to his riddle. To the contrary, 'far' sight, based on 'long' history, is one of the more remarkable traits of your tribe, in my estimation.
Buddy Larsen said...
Before I even try to tackle any of that, let me correct my 'blind" remark. Mat had posed a riddle, and "blind" was my answer to his riddle. To the contrary, 'far' sight, based on 'long' history, is one of the more remarkable traits of your tribe, in my estimation.
Actually my statement was not even aimed at you or even specifically "belmont"....
lol
buddy, and all belmonters
i keep saying my mantra, please listen...
i respect all ethical people inspite of thier stupid childish beliefs, including my own...
everyone has the right to believe ANY NONSENSE they choose... However as long as it ends at the tip of thier fingers and doesn't HURT me or mine i could care less...
That being said. As Islam and Christianity mature and finally accept somethings that are hard to digest (like history, tells, digs, pottery schards, carbon dating, accurate translation of the HEBREW SCRIPTURES for USE in islam and christian discussions many THINGS are going to change and YES look to the Jewish originals to set the course straight since it is the ACTUAL CORE of all of this...
This is why Jerusalem is the place, not Rome or Mecca. In the end the world's attention keeps focusing on Israel and the Jewish POV.
Someone once asked me (because of my views) how would I like it if someone showed you that your faith is crap...
I answered it as follows, as just a jew:
If G-d is a fraud, we still have Torah.
If Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Exodus were made up where does that leave you?
We still have our 613........ or for you the ten
and FOR you if G-d is a fraud, and jesus is made up, you still have the 7 laws of noah...
that's all you need....
and let me correct "glib". That was meant as a salute to longevity, not as an implied jab at "detachment".
Have to parse my words a little better--I tend to forget the theological loads.
Anyway, granted that the persecutions are all one-sided, and that pogrom is a fact of history that is beyond any addition by latter day examination.
But Christians labor under psychological burdons that Jews are free of.
Understanding your own personal original sin, for example, or that a divine being personally died for your sins, and was resurrected.
These are heavy loads, doctrinally and cognitively--especially when--like me, for instance--you have no idea what they mean, nor any prospect of ever understanding what they mean.
Jews, conversely, just have to live right (difficult to do, but not impossible to understand).
So, you have that, porker, to be weighed in the balance.
I think you could boil it down even further, pork--how about just the "golden rule"?
Allen said, "Imagine if Israel had to confront simultaneously the forces of hostile Islam and Christianity."
And then throw in the forces of hostile Judaism (Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Gideon Levy, Ilan Pappe, Amira Hess, Jeff Halper) and Israel is really up the Jordan without a paddle.
One cannot make a system of logic without making assumptions. Logic by itself cannot explain itself. The bedrock of a sustainable living entity must be a connection and a bond to something entirely transcendent. Something beyond reason. Buddy, like many Christians, instinctively understands this. I too understand this, but every day is an emotional struggle with this paradox. It is a difficult burden on the mind, but I guess there's more to life than logic -- like Hanukkah and a Virgin Birth. :)
So where're we going for boiled-down Pork?
"I too understand this, but every day is an emotional struggle with this paradox."
---
I've *never* understood, it.
Talk about an emotional struggle.
"I'm tryin to think,
but nothin happens!"
Couldn't agree more, Mat--there's just no easy way out of all this. If you've got it all figured out, you've been defeated by your desire for clarity. Another idol.
Doug
LOL. I guess I should have been more careful with my wording. That should have read: "The bedrock of a sustainable living society must be a connection and a bond to something entirely transcendent." Interestingly, of all the ancient cultures of the past, only Judaism survives today as a living breathing entity.
"The bedrock of a sustainable living entity..."
---
Is fermented Kudzu,
according to Rufus.
"No War For Oil"
Is a desire to have my memory back just idle worship?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Buddy,
Actually, it is you that caused this to crystalize in my mind. I was subconsciously struggling with this for a long time. And it was only today, after I read an earlier comment of yours, that I was finally able to come out and verbalize this.
If your memory is gone, how do you know?
Thanks--that was a Christmas gift, mat. I finally said something thought-provoking, after all these years of trying. Now I have to go lay down in my longboat, set it afire, and sail to Valhalla.
or, possibly, Houston.
Ground control to Major Tom, Ground control to Major Tom: Take your protein pills and put your helmet on..
My wife said something about my mind and Crystal Meth.
...but I can't remember what.
boy, THAT stuff will help ya think! Think think think think
buddy larsen,
You and your faith have been ill used today. Accept my apology.
“…For I have singled him (Abraham) out, that he may instruct his children and his posterity to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is [JUST] and [RIGHT], in order that the LORD may bring about for Abraham what He has promised him.”
___Genesis 18:19
“…And I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you
And curse him that curses you;
And all the families of the earth
Shall bless themselves by you.”
___Genesis 12:2,3
I can recall no instance of Abraham, our father, calling anyone’s belief nonsensical.
Hit it again, doug...that should help.
Allen, thanks, but, well, as mat sez, nonsense is just another word for...uh...non-sense, or whatever transcends the world we can grasp. Pork's a fire-breather, but the western world needs some fire-breathers. If he remembers every stroke of every lash, well, so be it. I think I would, too, in his shoes.
Allen,
That would be like pot telling the kettle: You stink. :D
Or asking what the hell he's smoking!? :D
Boy, THAT's a mouthful, mat--you said it--the whole Old Book is hallucinatory. Gorgeous, crazy, wild, hallucinatory, and impossible to imagine a world without.
I just finished watching Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey, set to Pink Floyd's music. Talk about gorgeous, crazy, wild, hallucinatory!
Kubrick--something different about that guy.
Wasn't he the one that filmed NASA's moon walks? :D
Oh, maybe
SPACEBALLS!
Boy, it sure seems a lot longer than 5 years since that movie came out.
I can recall no instance of Abraham, our father, calling anyone’s belief nonsensical.
there is an old talmudic story about abram working in his dad's idol shop, his dad goes for lunch and when he comes back all the idols are destroyed...
his father asks, abram, what the heck happened to all the gods?
abram answers, dad, they got into a fight and destroyed each other...
his father looks at abram and says you know that's nonsense.....
abram says, so why do we sell them if they are crap?
Abraham by agressively going against the ancient practice of CHILD SACRIFICE WAS CALLING ALL OTHER BELIEF'S NONSENSE....
Rambam also makes this point repeatedly in his "guide to the perplexe"
I think you could boil it down even further, pork--how about just the "golden rule"?
The ethic of reciprocity or "The Golden Rule" is a fundamental moral principle found in virtually all major religions and cultures, which simply means "treat others as you would like to be treated." It is arguably the most essential basis for the modern concept of human rights. Principal philosophers and religious figures have stated it in different ways:
"Love your neighbor as yourself." — Moses (ca. 1525-1405 BCE) in the Torah, Leviticus 19:18
"What you do not wish upon yourself, extend not to others." — Confucius (ca. 551–479 BCE)
"It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly." - Epicurus (ca. 300 BCE)
"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man." — Hillel (ca. 50 BCE-10 CE)
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." — Jesus (ca. 5 BCE—33 CE) in the Gospels, Luke 6:31; Luke 10:27 (affirming of Moses)— Matthew 7:12
"Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you." — Muhammad (c. 571 – 632 CE) in The Farewell Sermon.
For me, I like the concept do what is right for right's sake, not reward.
but I still like my saying...
I respect all ethical people inspite of the stupid childish beliefs, including my own....
BELIEFS and BELIEVING too much is the problem, respecting ethical actions is what is needed...
Hope all the jews have a great chinese dinner!
Doug said, "SPACEBALLS!"
That was a great send-up of Star Wars, but it was an odd choice for Mel Brooks, because Star Wars itself was already a send up of Dune, the Foundation Trilogy, Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, the Seven Samurai, and Snoopy's adventures in the Lafayette Escadrille.
Doug said, "Boy, it sure seems a lot longer than 5 years since that movie came out."
Some people find the original Solaris seems to run a lot longer than five years when they watch it, especially at the end of the earthbound section when they just drive around on freeways. But if you tough it out, it gets under your skin. If you want to just skip to the end, it's right here.
I was talking about 2001, of course.
I gave up on Solaris when my computer got caught in an endless loop.
Doug said, "My wife said something about my mind and Crystal Meth.
...but I can't remember what."
She said, "Do you mind if I flush your crystal meth down the toilet?"
Nice that she's so polite.
She's good with children.
Don't pad his ego. The old wizard might cast another spell word that we'll all need to look up in the dictionary. :D
I just wish the Lord hadn't wanted me to eat that second BIG piece of cheesecake with cherries on top.
"Barry Lyndon" is a little-known Kubrick that is actually pretty great.
read somewhere that he was already working on his next project when he untimely died. What won't we see?
"Napoleon". Whew--that would've been something--maybe enough to make us forget that one over-reach, your unintentional comedy "Eyes Wide Shut". That's bound to be a better movie than it looked and sounded like.
"Full Metal Jacket"
I cannot believe that Kubrick has escaped mention...remindned me of my days in the Quantico woodlands at dear Camp Rupture....
WiO, I hear you. Thx for the various expositions and your formulation.
My contemplation has long been "Right is it's own reward"...and has nothing to do with power or privilege...sorry all you statists, whether Marxo- or corpo-....
Poor WiO! You are a bitter man.
You may sing the praises of Judas Macabeus and I will join along with you. But you don't have to denigrate Jesus on Christmas to do it. What is bringing you out of your hole today? What ethical crime was Jesus ever convicted of; (since you put so much emphasis on our ethical treatment of one another)? By all accounts HE healed people.
Wio,you are inhabiting an intellectual ghetto of the mind. You could sure use a little love of Jesus in your life.
Do not walk as the gentiles also walk in the futility of the mind. A Jew wrote that.
The time of the gentiles is passing and the heat is about to come on Israel and the Jews again. Maybe that is what you are feeling.
Anyway, today is the day of salvation. While it is still called today do not harden your heart.
Jesus is my Savior.
Happy Chanukah!
Say what you like about Chris✝iani✝y. It is clearly a religion not without sin.
It has however in its past flawed state and all too human human roots, spread branches that have allowed Western Civilization to flourish, the same Western Civilization that guarantees the rights of good men, of all faiths and none, to become great and fools to continue being fools.
What is Occupation said, "For me, I like the concept do what is right for right's sake, not reward."
I like the way Master Lao Tzu stated it: "Return good for good, and return good for evil, that good may abound." But this is not a good survival strategy in the face of those whose evil is to inflict mortal harm, unless one defines good as disengaging from the attackers. This requires that one puts the national ego into harness and turn away from the desire to be called great, which is at the core of every one of our overseas social-engineering projects such as the League of Nations, the UN, the Marshall Plan, and the Roadmap to Peace. After 9-11 Lao Tzu would have recommended pulling up stake and moving ourselves back within our own borders, and concentrating on making ourselves invulnerable to attack.
Allen said, "I can recall no instance of Abraham, our father, calling anyone’s belief nonsensical."
But Sarai, his wife, sure got a chuckle out of the suggestion that she would bear a son at her advanced age.
Sparks fly said...
Poor WiO! You are a bitter man.
Please i am not bitter... Not in the least...
sparks: You may sing the praises of Judas Macabeus and I will join along with you. But you don't have to denigrate Jesus on Christmas to do it.
I did not "denigrate" jesus on Christmas.
sparks: What is bringing you out of your hole today?
a full a belly of chinese food
Sparks: What ethical crime was Jesus ever convicted of; (since you put so much emphasis on our ethical treatment of one another)? By all accounts HE healed people.
sparks, I did not bring up the flaws of jesus today, if you wish we can address this some other time.
sparks: Wio,you are inhabiting an intellectual ghetto of the mind. You could sure use a little love of Jesus in your life.
thanks for the well wishing, but I have all the love i can handle. Please save Jesus's love someone else.
Sparks: Do not walk as the gentiles also walk in the futility of the mind. A Jew wrote that.
ok, a jew also wrote, bring on the lesbians, H stern, a jew also wrote, never order milk with beef potstickers.
sparks: The time of the gentiles is passing and the heat is about to come on Israel and the Jews again. Maybe that is what you are feeling.
Naw.... the HEAT is always on israel..... from trying to figure out what lands to live in to figuring out how to write a headstone for 6,000,000 to just getting the right to own land... the heat is on... But actually the heat is on the gentile now.. one false chamberlandlike move and gentile world will cease to be...
sparks: Anyway, today is the day of salvation. While it is still called today do not harden your heart.
Actually easter is your day of salvation, this is the birthday, no salvation until the "christos" is killed and brought back to life...
sparks: Jesus is my Savior.
I have g-d.....
Sparks: Happy Chanukah!
Thanks for the nice thoughts, Chanukah is over I am aiming at the MUCH more important holiday just 4 days away....
Woman Catholic said...
Allen said, "I can recall no instance of Abraham, our father, calling anyone’s belief nonsensical."
But Sarai, his wife, sure got a chuckle out of the suggestion that she would bear a son at her advanced age.
AND more importantly after the OFFERING it is rumoured that Sarah was QUITE PISSED at Abraham and never spoke to him again
buddy: cowboy's wedding night, he's checking in to the hotel. Clerk smiles, and asks "Do you want the Bridal?" Cowboy sez, "Naw, I'll just hang onto her ears".
10.....................................
OK, I'm a little slow,but I finally got it.
Wio is jealous of Jesus. Wio and his stupid comments. He just wants us to talk about him instead of Jesus. What a great intellectual! Hey Wio,how about doing a little soft shoe and some stand-up. Vegas has a place for you.
Now to get back to the serious stuff.
Happy birthday Jesus!
Later today a whole bunch of us Gentiles are going to get together in Canyon Country and sing happy birthday to Jesus and I am looking forward to it. It makes my day. Happy Birthday! What a pleasant thought. HE's alive and what's more HE knows what we are gonna do. Makes me feel warm all over. Thank YOU Jesus.
Merry Christmas y'all.
3case--agree on Full Metal Jacket--also "The Thin Red Line" along with "Private Ryan" for best war movies of modern times.
WiO & Sparks--thanks for a good humored (if a bit pointed) repartee in the JudaoChristian ranks. Nicely irenic, as those things go.
There, I gave Mat a new word to look up, and Merry Christmas to all!
sparks: Wio is jealous of Jesus. Wio and his stupid comments. He just wants us to talk about him instead of Jesus.
Dear mr Sparks,
I do not have more than my normal share of typical Jewish messiah complex. I am not jealous of Jesus. Unlike him, I have lived much longer than he, I have married a lovely lady and actually have had lots of fun martial nookie as well as successfully bred a couple of mini-WiO's to pass the torch to. Unlike Jesus, Howard Stern, Jerry Springer, Al Goldstein, Jerry Lewis, Paul, Karl Marz and many other assorted cultlike messiah wanting people I seek no actual limelight.
I speak in ideas, not of me personally. I seek to open the eyes of the unlearned and seek equal justice under the law for all, even Jews (but not as a separate group wiith "jewish rights".
Sparks, I have been posting here for over a year or so, you are a newbie so I shall cut you slack.. Sometimes learning what your "apparent opponent" is talking about before you shoot your mouth off is a good thing..
Try google on any point that I make... they are backed up with facts, not "faith".
sparks: Now to get back to the serious stuff.
Happy birthday Jesus!
now that you bring it up, are you sure it's his actual birthday?
Ask a Greek Orthodox or a Coptic thier opinion, after all they were True Christans 1st....
and as for his Name, do you know his actual name?
Please elaborate....
sparks::Later today a whole bunch of us Gentiles are going to get together in Canyon Country and sing happy birthday to Jesus and I am looking forward to it. It makes my day.
You are implying I don't like gentiles? Shhhh dont tell my wife, but you can tell my mother-in-law, but that really doesnt count since it's her not her "other nation status" that determines that, and actually she's Mormon, so she calls ME gentile! AINT that a kick in the nuts?
sparks:. HE's alive and what's more HE knows what we are gonna do. Makes me feel warm all over. Thank YOU Jesus.
Now that is faith, I'll tell you what, i have an email address on my blog, Have my cousin email me, I have a few things to dicuss with him. After all he does say, Judge the tree by the fruit...
Happy Secular New Year
"martial nookie"?
hey, put the club away, and try some roses or a box of chocolate first.
:-D
Buddy Larsen said...
"martial nookie"?
hey, put the club away, and try some roses or a box of chocolate first.
:-D
ah.....
Never claimed to be spelling master....
lol
opps...
I meant Marital Nookie...
and yes a club does work but Liqueur is quicker...
or a Nice Château Yquem.....
Oh, the Christian Brothers Cabernet is a much better wine.
as cab's go, i'd fight you for a Saint-Emilion ANY day over any cabsab...
"...lots of fun martial nookie...." -emphasis added-
John Philip Sousa gets it goin' over at your house!! Damn! Never THOUGHT to try firin' up the Marine Band recordings for a night of sweet lovin'...Got a good beat....
LOL
This is my clear favorite in the best typo of the year.
"Can you give me a hand?"
One hand clapping only.
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