Wednesday, December 20, 2006

Bring Me My Chariot of Fire

Over the last few days I had the opportunity to visit Israel to attend a conference. The flight from the Far East to this little country on the Med coast solved the mystery that quoted airline fares direct from the Far East to Israel were higher than going the far longer route through Europe. That is, fares connecting through London or Amsterdam were cheaper than a direct flight. I wondered why. The El Al flight from Hong Kong provided the answer. It flew three legs of a rectangle, dead north through China, across the Gobi, over the Aral, Caspian and finally the Black Sea and then down through Turkey and over the tail of Cyprus. Then it was over the coast of the Levant until we turned due east into Ben Gurion airport. It was one hell of a detour. The reason direct flights to Israel from Asia were so expensive was simply because Israel-bound airliners could not transit Pakistan nor the Arabian Peninsula and essentially had to fly around them. That explained why it was cheaper to fly through Europe than to take the Silk Road express. Lesson number one. Israel is not a normal country and what international friends it has are very important. If the route through China, Russia and Turkey were closed the trip would be even more of a hassle.


The Silk Road express left me at Ben Gurion at 3 am, and naturally, rather than taking a taxi, I rooted around for more plebian transport to Jerusalem, where accomodation had been arranged. That turned out to be an shuttle bus which was packed floor to ceiling with Argentinian rabbinical students, one Roman Catholic nun, a somewhat testy local lady and yours truly. We headed east into the Judaean Hills and came to the city holy to the three monotheisms. Going into the Old City would have to wait for daylight. But in the meantime the evil effect of time zones meant that although it was zero dark hundred locally, the body clock put it closer to noon. So, having recovered somewhat from the flight, I ventured out into the predawn city. In the dark and from the Old City came what sounded like the Islamic call to prayer, possibly (or so I surmised) from the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa mosque area. And there was Lesson number two. All the waves of conquest and proselytization that had washed over this place had left its indelible mark. None of this was news to anyone in the region, but it came home forcefully to me.

Though I don't know enough to say so with conviction, I am fairly persuaded that the Old City has been stripped of all meaningful signage in order to pander the vast army of hucksters who present themselves as tourist guides. The absence of directions leaves the hapless pilgrim with little choice but to trust to their services. Little choice but not no choice. Meandering later through the Old City I came upon many a picaresque character, all of whom I think could have become Jewish, Muslim or Christian to suit in the blink of an eye, with the proper headgear in their pockets, promising to show any number of miraculous locations, which thanks very much, I declined. After doing a circuit of the walls I came on the Jaffa gate, and by following a man in a business suit with a tall, blond and Anglo-sounding lady tourist guide came through a souk to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. It usually helps to follow the money.

(More later)

104 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wretchard said, "The reason direct flights to Israel from Asia were so expensive lay in the simple fact that airliners could not transit Pakistan nor the Arabian Peninsula and essentially had to fly around them. That explained why it was easier to fly through Europe then backtrack then to take the Silk Road express. Lesson number one. Israel is not a normal country and what international friends it has are very important. If the route through China, Russia and Turkey were closed the trip would be even more of a hassle."

Yeah, we thought France was our international friend after pulling their fat from the fire in two world wars, but when Ronnie stomped Ghadaffi for the West Berlin disco bombing, France refused overflights and our planes had to basically follow the same path a ship would have taken, which may have contributed to the loss of two American pilots in their F-111. But France is not a member of NATO you say? That would be a valid point, but NATO member Turkey refused, at the eleventh hour, to let the 4th Infantry Battalion open a northern front in Iraq and who knows what they managed to sneak out to Syria through the back door. So much for friends.

12/20/2006 06:50:00 AM  
Blogger bohica said...

Two fine examples from a far-too-lengthy list WC. It's depressing to your truly and I still cannot fathom the true emotion, despite all the fine pontificating on the issue, behind W. Europe's political dislike for the U.S.

I can imagine how we must come off to many Europeans as brash, cocky and even culturally lacking (while not agreeing with that characterization myself). But how can any reasonable person doubt the heart of the American people? Our history is certainly no more nasty than much of Europe and much less so than most. What gives?

12/20/2006 08:13:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

It is amazing when flying into Israel that the security levels that were once considered by the rest of the world what the "jews" had to do are now softly becoming more standard for all mankind.

When walking past the hundreds of shops selling made in china "holy goods" and seeing people who you could not but wonder is this a Jew, an Arab or a Christian made me understand the GREATNESS of the place. You could NEVER wonder this in any islmaic country anymore (with small exception). Jews, Arabs and peoples from 100 different countries live, work, breath, eat, haggle, crowd in Israel. there are jews of every stripe & color, black jews, indian, white, orthodox, jews that look like they just woke up in Poland in 1422 and jews with bikini tops and mohawks. There are parades of greek priests and catholic nuns, there are moslems by the tens of thousands that exclusively crowd the Jewish Temple Mount every Friday....

Gee not like any arab country......

You visit the Christian Holy Sites in the City of MY Great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather David, you go through the doors of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre only to realize that the building actually COVERS layer upon layer of christian vrs christan struggle throught the SHORT 1500 yrs christians have been in this Jewish city. Then you decide to take one of those "historic" stations of the cross tours thru the "old city" (of course the actual stations of the cross dont take you on the path that the local tour guides want to take you since it takes you into a moslem area) but you comply and upon learning that the actual paths would be 43 (forty three) FEET BELOW where you are walking since the city has built upon it'sself to raise it's level. Maybe you decide to visit the hyped "western wall" and wiggle thru the narrow streets until you come upon a plaza, no bigger than a SMALL strip mall, yes you have found a major source of Israeli LAND grab!!!

Back in 1967 when Israel UNITED the City of David, they came upon this same square, but only there had been hundreds of shacks built by arabs in FRONT of this WALL, israel cleared them out! and NOW a small plaza allows the JEWS to pray in front of a WALL.... YES MY FRIENDS a BLOOMIN WALL...

What is this WALL? it's RETAINING WALL.. one PORTION of one SIDE of the JEWISH temple MOUNT! Well there ya go, those land grubbing JEWS STOLE a PARKING lot space infront of thier retaining wall!!!

Now for all you people that dont get it... let me explain...

A long time ago, thousands of years before Mohommed had his 1st wet dream about 12 yr old girls and camels, Long before that Jewish Traitor Saul who was a spy for Rome had his 1st cheesy taco those occupying Jews built a temple on the place where Abraham OFFERED (NOT SACRIFIED) his son Issac to the G-d of the Hebrews, on this same spot, TWO, (NOT ONE) Jewish Temples were built (and leveled) and destroyed. All this before thousands of YEARS before Islam or Jesus.

Skip forward longer than Europe has had the invention of concrete, Islam came to the Jewish City and built a HUGH Mosque on the Plaza on the Mount. thus was created the Dome of the Rock...

JUST TO CLARIFY...

Islam hold the KEYS to the Jewish Temple Mount...

Jews are allowed a small parking lot at the base of one wall....

and YES it's been ILLEGAL for Jews to Pray on the Mount for centuries (or even blowing the shofar on our parking lot below)

Now as you travel thru israel you get to see Jews that run a country... Amazing, they are loud, they argue, they scream, they are noisy and nosey... and yet, within the landscape 25% of the country is NON-jewish, and the NUMBERS of international peoples that visit and make it a temporary home is staggering...

Then you take a bus ride to the DISPUTED TERRITORIES...

what a shock, what a waste, how disgusting..

to think MORE MONEY PER person has been spent on this one people "the fake people Palestine" than the Marshall Plan spent is amazing...

more to follow...

12/20/2006 08:33:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Fox news ran a piece last night from a representative of Pajama Media. (I forget the guys name.) Anyhow the piece was about the last No Name post.

The suggested solution was to get the Egyptians to earn the money the USA gives them every year by cutting off the sattelite feed for the terrorist tv programming. The Egyptians control that sattelite feed.

12/20/2006 09:19:00 AM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

Slightly off topic, but good news. The President gets it:

"We can ask more of our Iraqi partners, and we will," Bush said. "I believe that we're going to win. I believe that. And by the way, if I didn't think that, I wouldn't have our troops there."

Bush said that if the Iraqis "stand up, step up and lead," then the U.S. military can help them achieve victory there.

"It's their responsibility to govern their country. It's their responsibility to do the hard work necessary to secure Baghdad. And we want to help them."

12/20/2006 09:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is Occupation said, "Long before that Jewish Traitor Saul who was a spy for Rome had his 1st cheesy taco those occupying Jews built a temple on the place where Abraham OFFERED (NOT SACRIFIED) his son Issac to the G-d of the Hebrews, on this same spot, TWO, (NOT ONE) Jewish Temples were built (and leveled) and destroyed. All this before thousands of YEARS before Islam or Jesus."

Quibble#1: St. Paul was blameless as touching the law of Moses, so he never combined milk products and meat into a single meal.

Quibble #2: If an angel had not intervened at the last moment, Abraham's offering would have turned into a bloody human sacrifice.

Quibble #3: The first Temple was destroyed 587 years before Christ, not thousands, and the second one was destroyed 37 years after he ascended to heaven.

12/20/2006 09:37:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

mercy--hucksters all over the Holy City, changing their religious-identity per approaching tourist, the actual Stations of the Cross 43 feet buried below whatever is there now, wot a pilgrim's progress, fooey, i want to be a tree.

12/20/2006 09:38:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

Hey,buddy!

Did you think of the Canterbury Tales?

12/20/2006 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

In the course of several conversations over shot glasses of Johnny Walker I was struck by how most of the differences between sides had little to do with material things like money or even land. They had mostly to do with tribal things, even -- if I can make so bold to say -- within Jewry. The divisions between the "Lefty" and the "Zionist", the difference between the Arab Christian and the Arab Shi'ite is nothing to do with race or wealth so much as to ineffable things.

If I were to guess why the problems in the Middle East were so intractable it would be because the differences were precisely about perceptions. It would be because they were about nothing tangible. Looking on the dusty terrain and picking one's way over Ottoman masonry from which more ancient stonework yet protrudes, one is left with the question: what is Holy? And given the enmity which the various Revelations have aroused, how dare we call it Holy? Yet men do.

There may be some who think that if they could turn back the clock to 32 AD with the knowledge they had now they would listen, with self-assured certainty to what Jesus of Nazareth had to say. Yet I doubt they would find the obvious Redeemer. They would find, I guess, pretty much the same land they do today, full of doubt, fear and hate, but yes, Holiness too. That was what struck me above all, that sanctity, if it does exist, must recognized in the everyday. It is no place to which you can buy an air or theater ticket.

12/20/2006 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Heres a good Christmas card for everyone.

http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2442

12/20/2006 09:44:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

Wretchard,

While we all like to think not, I am certain that Moses and Jesus would receive much the same treatment today as they did then. The lives of the ancients have such resonance with us moderns precisely because human nature does not change (at least historically). We are they; they are we.

12/20/2006 10:07:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

what is occupation,

It seems like such a comedy of errors. I spent long hours listening to people express their disappointment that this group or that group failed to respond to common decency or responded only to take advantage of it. Jerusalem, the capital of Israel, is in fact surmounted by the a Muslim Holy Place something even more evident from the air.

Yet I am beginning to guess that for the custodians of the Mosque to have responded as a Westerner would to civic generosity, would have been to cut against the grain of tribal acquisitiveness. As the robot in Lost in Space used to say, "It Does Not Compute".

This is really depressing because each side tends to send signals which to some extent will be doomed to be misunderstood. It is as if each party were semaphoring each other in codes calculated to confound rather than to communicate. That we come in peace may be true but how does one say that where it may not be in the lexicon.

12/20/2006 10:15:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Wretchard seems to be saying that memory stands in the way of peace. Well then, Jesus would be the answer, with the message of forgiveness.

Only problem is, we can't do it.

A person can claim to, but how if he is not buttressed and protected by those who can't?

Like nuclear disarmament, peace and goodwill seemingly have to happen everywhere simultaneously, or else someones' children will die before their voices can keep the future alive and unfolding--for better or for worse, as the case may be, from any point of view.

12/20/2006 10:15:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

That we come in peace may be true but how does one say that where it may not be in the lexicon

The Alphabet Wars

12/20/2006 10:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Allen said, "The lives of the ancients have such resonance with us moderns precisely because human nature does not change (at least historically). We are they; they are we."

Except that we have abandoned the eye-for-eye, life-for-life principle of the ancients. The Jihadist who shot up the Jewish Federation building in Seattle will not be on the fast track to get his 72 virgins (or 72 raisins, depending on your translation).

12/20/2006 10:40:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"eye-for-eye" is oft misinterpreted. In truth, it limits--an eye, but no more than an eye, for an eye.

12/20/2006 10:54:00 AM  
Blogger Pascal Fervor said...

Re. WC quibble #2:
Jeesh, that was a major point of the offering. And of the subsequent recounting of the ordeal. That Abe had faith that God would not permit it.

After all that Abram and Sarai went through to conceive Isaac, there was no way Abe wanted to sacrifice him. But he had to go thru the preparation for the ritual that even Isaac recognized so that he offered himself (having faith in Dad or Dad's god is not necessarily clear from that one accounting.) But the scripture clearly states that God said, to effect, "now I know you are the ones."

The event didn't even have to be a real event to make clear what the very essence of the creed is. It intends to end human sacrifice, because your Creator does not wish it, no matter how many swine try to make it appear differently.

Abraham lived in a world where every vestige of barbarity from trampling innocents to offering them ritually to some idol was common. His covenant with his God was a break, a revolution.

And that offering continues with every individual who agrees that innocents should not shoulder the penalties due the sinners. Jesus offered himself up in the same manner, signifying that God was willing not just to tell us what to do, but to endure the worst meted out to those who follow in His way.

I've covered this at length before. The majority of the anti-Christian, Anti-Jewish, Islamo-fascist loving behavior of postmodernists explained.

12/20/2006 11:04:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Anyway, Wretchard, you're right about the signaling--alphabets *must* exclude. It's the only way to derive meaning. All but the 'knower' must be excluded. Before the jihad exploded across the globe, the currency was that English would soon cover the planet. The other candidates were in retreat. The new globalist language was part of the 'end of history'. The jihad is bringing all that hopefulism back into question, as a peace on someone else's terms.

12/20/2006 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

stated: what is occupation,

It seems like such a comedy of errors. I spent long hours listening to people express their disappointment that this group or that group failed to respond to common decency or responded only to take advantage of it. Jerusalem, the capital of Israel, is in fact surmounted by the a Muslim Holy Place something even more evident from the air.

Yet I am beginning to guess that for the custodians of the Mosque to have responded as a Westerner would to civic generosity, would have been to cut against the grain of tribal acquisitiveness. As the robot in Lost in Space used to say, "It Does Not Compute".

This is really depressing because each side tends to send signals which to some extent will be doomed to be misunderstood. It is as if each party were semaphoring each other in codes calculated to confound rather than to communicate. That we come in peace may be true but how does one say that where it may not be in the lexicon.


This may be true but for ONE small point..

in 1967 the JEWS liberated HISTORIC lands, and the 1st thing the jews did when liberating the MOST important HOLY (as you stated) site with in Jewish lives since the begining of record history, is GIVE the KEYS BACK to the Moslems..

That says it all...

12/20/2006 11:21:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

wc:
Quibble#1: St. Paul was blameless as touching the law of Moses, so he never combined milk products and meat into a single meal.

my take is that MOST of the issues with christian behavior in the last 1700 yrs comes from Paul/Saul

Quibble #2: If an angel had not intervened at the last moment, Abraham's offering would have turned into a bloody human sacrifice.

Ah, Just like crucifying Jesus on the cross? But Torah is not about What Could Be, but rather what was and is..

Rule Number One in Judaism, No HUMAN SACRIFICES for G-d. Hense the concept that MURDERING one's 1st born is pagan and not "kosher"

Quibble #3: The first Temple was destroyed 587 years before Christ, not thousands, and the second one was destroyed 37 years after he ascended to heaven.

Within the dialouge of Jewish circles we do not call our cousin "christ" which comes from the greek "christos" or follower of the annointed one"

My Timing was slopply, I was refering more to the thousands of years from abraham's time to 2000 yrs ago, I do apoligize for my sloppy statement

12/20/2006 11:27:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

WC,

re: unavenged murder

Pamela of Atlas Shrugs is carrying a some such thread. Pay her a visit. For your pleasure, do check out the “Comments”, where several “fellows” attempt to bi**h slap into submission. It is a delight to be loved wherever you go, don’t you think?

Link

Link

12/20/2006 11:31:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

What is "Occupation"

You carry yourself well.
;-)

12/20/2006 11:33:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

wc:
Except that we have abandoned the eye-for-eye, life-for-life principle of the ancients.

actually the Jews (pardon the replacement of the disrespectful non-entity - "ancients") whose legal and moral codes use the title "eye for and eye" (life for a life is nowhere in jewish concept the way you imply) has nothing about making people blind.

the typical christian or gentile mistranslating of the jewish concept of "eye for an eye" is that property shall not be a reason for a life or limb's destruction.

in the olden days of the ancient world (proper usage) such as Hammarabi, the concept that if a lower person tipped a cart over of a high birthed person that high birthed person could demand life limb or eye as payment for thier destroyed property.

Within Torah this concept was trashed under the "eye for an eye" title. It makes VERY interesting reading, many jewish customs and morals are completely screwed up/hosed of thier ORIGINAL MEANINGS when gentiles (other nations) misread, misinterpret, mistranslate my family's (notice " ' " showing ownership) history, codes, lore, stories and traditions...

happy chanukah

12/20/2006 11:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Buddy Larson said, ""eye-for-eye" is oft misinterpreted. In truth, it limits--an eye, but no more than an eye, for an eye."

True, but it also requires an eye as a minimum, and not thirty-nine stripes, for example, or a little pinky up to the first knuckle.

12/20/2006 11:41:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

What is "Occupation" said...

wc:
Quibble#1: St. Paul was blameless as touching the law of Moses, so he never combined milk products and meat into a single meal.

my take is that MOST of the issues with christian behavior in the last 1700 yrs comes from Paul/Saul
////////////////
Its not Jewish thinking of course, but Christians generally think that if Jesus were not fully God -- then he's just another human sacrifice--and as such no more able to provide forgiveness for sins than a sheep or a goat.

As it happens the great practical accomplishment of Jesus has been to extend the Jewish ban against human sacrifice to the whole world.

Could a mere man do that? I think not.

12/20/2006 11:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is occupation,

I'm intrigued by what you alluded to about Paul/Saul and how he had some significant (and negative?) impact on Christianity - but I'm not a religious scholar.

If you'd elaborate, I'd appreciate a chance to read it.

From what I've gathered from the wiki:

What he does not tell his correspondents (or the modern reader) is much about the life and teachings of Jesus—

12/20/2006 11:54:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

If I may be so bold as to elaborate on the first rate observations of my friend, What is Occupation, consider that Paul/Saul was a near contemporary of Jesus. Often we Jews fail to grasp that the same Greco-Roman tendencies that ravaged our cannon may well have done the same to that of the Christians. Indeed, history is littered with allusions to hundreds of Christian apocryphal works denied canonization. While I do not wish to argue motive, there is a respected body of evidence suggesting that this was all too often for political or personal reasons.

Moreover, I suspect most Jews view Christianity as monolithic; obviously, it is not. From this limited perspective, then, the complexity of the culture which nourished early Christianity to maturity is lost.

Finally, both Judaism and Christianity have been under the relentless assault of Biblical criticism seen that began in 19th Century Germany. This desire for a fuller understanding of the founding religions of the West, no matter how well meaning, has caused great consternation and occasional chaos.

Given our limited abilities to agree on basics, we should exercise extreme caution when attempting to use scripture in argument. The prophet once said, rightly I think, that G-d’s essential requirements of all men are the love of mercy, the pursuit of justice, and a life of humility before our G-d.

12/20/2006 12:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So is it that Paul/Saul monopolized the market of ideas of early Christianity so to speak?

12/20/2006 12:32:00 PM  
Blogger charlotte said...

Yes, monopaulized.

12/20/2006 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

Charles said...
What is "Occupation" said...

Its not Jewish thinking of course, but Christians generally think that if Jesus were not fully God -- then he's just another human sacrifice--and as such no more able to provide forgiveness for sins than a sheep or a goat.

From a Jewish pov it is not a sacrifice for G-d since G-d cannot die not is there anything that G-d (since he/she/it is infinite) cannot already know or do.


Charles: As it happens the great practical accomplishment of Jesus has been to extend the Jewish ban against human sacrifice to the whole world.

Could a mere man do that? I think not.

he wasnt a "mere" man, he was my cousin, a Jew

Happy Chanukah, a time to be remembered for Jews kicking out the assyrians from the Temple mount and the Jewish Homeland (that many, even here call that term the "holy" land, g-d how i hate that term, it aint the HOLYLAND, it's the HOMELAND for the Jewish people. Period. What OTHERS want to PROJECT as claims are fine, but truthfully without substance since all OTHER peoples have thier HOMELANDS already) and making the power of the land understand that you cannot force Jews to pray to pagan gods...

12/20/2006 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

don't 'hate' the term WiO, honor it as one of the Chosen People.

12/20/2006 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

That's what "chosen people" *means*, to many of us, the people of the Holy Land, where mankind found G-d, the people who did it.

12/20/2006 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

So, you're stuck, WiO, with the job. You're stuck with having to "be" the host, so to speak, for the great meanings of the west, about spiritual equality and the value of human being.

12/20/2006 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

ppab,

The monopolization of ideas you suggest is understood, incorrectly I think, by Jews to be almost solely the handiwork of Paul.

The Festival of Chanukah celebrates the liberation of Judaism from the yoke of Hellenism. Christianity had no such experience. While the extent of the paganization of Christianity is debatable, it is incontestable that the Greco-Roman culture did influence a new religion having its roots in Judaism. Jesus was one of us, before he was one of you.
;-)

It must be noted that Judaism did not and has not escaped unscathed in its relationships with numerous host cultures, despite our protestations to the contrary.

The extent to which the authentic Paul speaks to us through the Christian cannon is something that will continue to be debated by those interested in such arcania.

12/20/2006 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

For those not interested in such arcania, there is always food.

12/20/2006 01:26:00 PM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

General Petraeus literally wrote the new Army/Marine counterinsurgency manual, so this could be interesting.

It is probably too late for counter insurgency fighting though. Everyone knows everyone, and the insurgent groups are all players in the government.

I think 2007 will simply be choosing sides and then fighting. The two sides could be named after the US civil war, "Union" and "Rebels".

If most of the Sunnis join Union, then it might be close to a counter-insurgency battle, with limited blood shed. If most of the Sunnis plus al-Sadr want to fight to the death as Rebels, then it will be a full civil war with us on the Union side.

One way or another, it should be an eventful year. Neither Iraq or the US can afford to wait.

The widespread expectation inside the military is that Abizaid will be succeeded by Lt. Gen. David Petraeus, who currently is chief of much of the Army's educational and training programs.

Casey also is expected in the spring to leave his post as the top U.S. commander on the ground in Iraq, and the betting at the Pentagon is that he will be followed by Marine Lt. Gen. James Mattis. However, all those moves will be dependent on the approval of Gates, who hardly has been defense secretary long enough to make his views known.

12/20/2006 01:28:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen,

re: Sartre

You have made my day!

I had forgotten how humorous was Sartre. Or not...I don't know.

Weren’t he and Dr. Albert Schweitzer cousins?

12/20/2006 02:23:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Schweitzer and Sartre;
cousins or nartre?

12/20/2006 02:33:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

allen said...
.///////

About Captain's Quarters. I don't think he's at all dense. I think he did some great original work on the canadian links to the oil for food scadal and some of the oddities of the last premier there. However, having had McCain blog for his site -- he now takes McCain's POV without further research. I disagree with McCain's views on things like Border Policy.

12/20/2006 02:51:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

"It is as if each party were semaphoring each other in codes calculated to confound rather than to communicate."

In August, 1945, upon hearing of the Allies call for unconditional surrender, the response by the Japanese leadership used phraseology that was appropriate for an underling signaling his superior that he knew he must comply with an order, but he did not like it, as in "Okay, Okay, you're the boss and I know it, but dammit, I don't like it."

This was translated to President Truman as "Reference your demand for our surrender: Eff you very much." Truman responded by sending the Enola Gay on its mission.

And Wretchard: These solitary perambulations of yours are endlessly fascinating - but get yourself a GPS unit man!

And an ELT as well, if you decide to go wandering around Mt. Hood...

12/20/2006 02:52:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

charles,

re: Ed Morrissey

I just found his justification for deleting my comment comedically dubious at best, a bit like Emeril huffing about the overuse of garlic.

You may recall an entertainer named Arthur Godfrey. Mr. Godfrey, a nice enough man, got into television early and then hung on for dear life. Eventually, even his most stalwart fans came to ask for talent. Mr. Godfrey did not measure up over the long haul.

Some big bloggers are much like Mr. Godfrey. In time, talent will prevail.

As I said, Mr. Morrissey can do with his property as he pleases. I just don't have to participate. Given his handling of my potentially embarrassing request for an investigation of one of his sacred cows, in time his audience will see his manipulation of news for what it is. The rest will be history.

Thanks for your interest.

"Colonel" Murphy is not going to disappear. The MSM will pull him out of the freezer when it suits them to administer the administration and the Republicans a good beating. I would have thought the Foley scandal lesson enough, but apparently not.

12/20/2006 03:19:00 PM  
Blogger Mastiff said...

If it's not too late to actually reference the original post... /grin

Many people (such as C4) are unhappy with Israel's association with China. I am not thrilled myself, not least because Israeli technology sometimes ends up in the hands of the Arab states, China's other friends in the region.

But as Wretchard's plane flight demonstrates, Israel has so few friends as it is that they cannot be too picky.

It is unfortunate, though. For example, Israel has had to essentially ignore the grievances of its significant Armenian community against the Turks' genocide, for fear of offending Turkey. Turkey provides much of Israel's water, and the two nations have a military pact that keeps Syria in check. So the Armenians get shunted aside.

Similar travesties occur in connection to Russia, etc.

12/20/2006 03:54:00 PM  
Blogger sam said...

Since taking power, Ahmadinejad has escalated Iran's confrontation with the United States and the West on multiple fronts, in particular drawing the threat of U.N. sanctions for pushing ahead with uranium enrichment in Iran's nuclear program. He has also sparked widespread international outrage for his comments against Israel and casting doubt on the Nazi Holocaust.

On Wednesday, a leading newspaper that usually reflects the thinking of many in Iran's conservative clerical leadership said in a blistering editorial that the election results showed it was time for Ahmadinejad to moderate his tone and concentrate on improving the ailing economy.


Rafsanjani Rising

12/20/2006 03:55:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

O/T, but if we remember Arthur Godfrey, why not former sitcom kid star Danny Bonaduce?

12/20/2006 03:56:00 PM  
Blogger Joe Buzz said...

I had a great uncle that worked for Mr. Godfrey. I visited his farm a few times. He may not have been able to "hang" on TV but folks around here considered him a good man. In fact the local dirt runway airport was named after him....probably because he was the only fella to fly in and out of it. ;)

12/20/2006 05:24:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

Joe Buzz,

re: Godfrey

Guess I should have used Attila the Hun.
;-)
My late mother thought Mr. Godfrey the cat's meow.

12/20/2006 05:28:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

Arthur Godfrey, Jackie Gleason--those guys came up the hard way.

12/20/2006 05:35:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Godfrey was a radio man who made the leap to tv--

12/20/2006 05:42:00 PM  
Blogger ricpic said...

It seems to me that Wretchard's post was about the hatred of Israel/The Jews: so deepseated in Islam that Islamic rule won't allow a flight destined for Tel Aviv from the far east to overfly an Islamic land.

This being the case what is there to talk about? All that the Jews of Israel can do is to stand firm, not give an inch, and be ready to fight to the death when the next inevitable attack comes. Everything else, all the talk of understanding, is folly, suicidal folly.

Now you can all tell me what a simpleton and how lacking in understanding of the fine shades in the conflict I am.

12/20/2006 07:08:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Look and listen to a soldier that will not be in another chariot of fire.

12/20/2006 10:15:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

speaking of godfrey check out this rendition of White Christmas. According to the blurb:

http://www.mesasoftware.com/

This rendition of White Christmas was recorded by Clyde McPhatter and the Drifters in 1953. It was #2 on the charts in 1954. Animation is by Joshua Held in 2002.


White Christmas was written by Irving Berlin for the Movie "Holiday Inn" and recorded by Bing Crosby in 1942, and received the Academy Award in that year. Crosby recorded it again in 1947, and that recording has become the standard. It was also featured in the 1954 movie White Christmas with Bing Crosby, Danny Kaye, Rosemary Clooney, and Vera-Ellen.


White Christmas is the biggest selling Christmas song of all time.

12/20/2006 10:18:00 PM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

Link

Nice little article called "Do Iraqis Have Free Will?" ("Not according to liberals")

A headline in the British liberal newspaper, the Guardian, caught my eye recently: IRAQIS CAN’T BE BLAMED FOR THE CHAOS UNLEASHED BY INVASION.

The headline makes clear that double standards are about to apply, double standards that are not flattering to the Iraqis’ capacity for independent action...

Forgive them, he invites all men of goodwill, for they know not what they do.

Like hell, they don’t.


for can one really say that people who travel to a different part of the city to explode bombs, resulting in scores of deaths of people chosen merely because they are (most of them) of a different religious confession, do not appreciate what they are doing, any more than a dog appreciates what it does when it knocks over a precious porcelain vase?

12/20/2006 11:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So it is agreed:
Allen is wrong on Arthur!
---
Confronting the Wahhabis

But King Abdullah and the overwhelming Saudi majority, who want to live in a normal country, are opposed by the Wahhabi-line faction in the royal family. The pro-Wahhabi clique is led by three individuals: Prince Sultan Ibn Abd al-Aziz, minister of defense; Prince Bandar, predecessor of Turki as ambassador to Washington; and Sultan's brother, Prince Nayef. Nayef is notorious for having been the first prominent figure in the Muslim world to try to blame the atrocities of September 11, 2001 on Israel. He is deeply feared both inside and outside Saudi Arabia for his extremism.

Saudi sources indicate that King Abdullah is assembling his forces for a decisive confrontation with the reactionaries. Part of the Wahhabi-line strategy is to depict a U.S. leadership in conflict with King Abdullah, to undermine the monarch's credibility. That is why different versions of a meeting between U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney and King Abdullah, late last month, circulate in the MSM and the blogosphere.

According to credible reports, Cheney urged Abdullah to stiffen action against Saudi-Wahhabi involvement in the Iraqi bloodletting. According to unreliable gadflies, King Abdullah commanded Cheney's presence, to demand that the U.S. immediately attack Iran. But the claim that King Abdullah summoned and berated Cheney does not ring true. King Abdullah is too polite, and Cheney does not take such orders, according to those who know both men.

Many leading clerics and intellectuals among Sunni Muslims indicate that King Abdullah has effectively told the Wahhabis that they will no longer receive official subsidies, and must end their violent jihad around the world. The greatest impact of this development may be seen in Iraq, but Wahhabis everywhere have begun to worry about their future.

In a totalitarian system like Wahhabism, the weakest links snap first. And the beginning of the end for them may now be visible in the Muslim Balkans...

12/20/2006 11:55:00 PM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

W,

Very interesting post.

I had my first experience in an Islamic country (Morocco) several months back.

You have strongly emphasised cultural variety, strong cultural variety.

In Morocco, I was struck by the exact opposite - strong cultural uniformity. Most of all, I saw a culture in complete deadlock - to go forward, to change anything, would be to destroy everything. Nothing could change - donkeys on streets, putting up street signs, the touts, the covered women gliding anonymously through the streets, the filth, shepards (yes, shepards) watching 10 sheep - every 100 meters.

A people desparate for recognition - but they believed it could only be for their past. Brittle, questions asked that requested afirmation - any doubt in your answer would be met with aggression, not discussion.

Doomed, a culture at its Darwinian moment.

ADE

12/21/2006 01:52:00 AM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

WW

SEASONAL GREETINGS
From me ("the wishor") to you ("hereinafter called the wishee")
Please accept without obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an
environmentally conscious, socially responsible, politically correct, low
stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice
holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious
persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect
for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their
choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all... and a
financially successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated
recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2007, but
with due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures or sects, and
having regard to the race, creed, colour, age, physical ability, religious
faith, choice of motorcycle brand or dietary preference of the wishee.


Oh hearts, oh minds, am I abject enough?

Sorry WW, it's not just you, but the complete collapse of the West that's knawing at me.

"Then screw your courage to the sticking post, and we'll not fail"

Happy Christmas all,

ADE

12/21/2006 04:55:00 AM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

In 2004, Americans thought they were voting for the guy who stood on top of a pile of rubble at the World Trade Center with a bullhorn and said, "I can hear you! The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!" What happened to that guy?

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18577

12/21/2006 05:49:00 AM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

As usual, the president took pains to warn the enemy in Iraq that "they can't intimidate America." But, by offering no real sense that he knows what "the way forward in Iraq" is, he seemed unsteady - and unsteadiness is exactly the quality that should and will gladden the hearts of the enemy in Iraq.

If you combine the effect of yesterday's press conference with his remarkably depressing interview with The Washington Post the day before - when he said that victory was "achievable" in Iraq, a defeatist word that must have had Winston Churchill rolling in his grave - you can't help but feel that Bush has had the stuffing knocked out of him by the twin blows of the November election results and the bloody chaos in Baghdad.

Yet this is not a moment when we or the troops in Iraq can afford to have a winded and stunned president.



Link

12/21/2006 05:51:00 AM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

WW
you can't help but feel that Bush has had the stuffing knocked out of him by the twin blows of the November election results and the bloody chaos in Baghdad.

If Bush had the stuffing knocked out of him by the November elections, that I respect. If the bloody chaos in Baghdad knocked the stuffing out of him, then here are my views:

It's horrible; I want the Baghdadis to live like me.

If it's a tactic of the RoP to make me feel guilty, f 'em.

If it's a tactic of the Arab culture to make me feel guilty, f 'em.

How to bridge the divide? Articulate the unbelievable - think white. Yes, of all things on the planet, this is the best for you. Scarry eh, you, me? My contribution, your contribution? Somebody else's ejaculation to somebody else's egg.

But we are here, and I know you know that.

ADE

12/21/2006 06:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wu wei said, "'...And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!' What happened to that guy?"

The guy who canned Eric Shinseki for saying we needed a surge of troops in Iraq three years before the President thought of that idea? He's still there, getting ready to sign Democrat bills like an increase in the minimum wage and amnesty for illegals.

12/21/2006 06:25:00 AM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

WC
What happened to that guy?

He never got it:

"In the begining was the word".

He ain't, er, nev, no how, not ev', got, er, nev, cud, ar', er say, it.

"In the begining was the word".

How the west was lost lost.

ADE

12/21/2006 06:47:00 AM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

And here's how the west was lost:

In my headphones; your quiz for tonight: Who composed this haunting song? What year?:

In this proud land we grew up strong
We were wanted all along
I was taught to fight, taught to win
I never thought I could fail.

No fight left or so it seems
I am a man whose dreams have all deserted,
I've changed my face,
I've changed my name
But no one wants you when you lose.

Though I saw it all around
Never thought that I could be affected
Thought that we'd be last to go
It's so strange the way things turn.

(Now the nuke has hit)

Drove the night toward my home
The place that I was born, on the lakeside
As daylight broke, I saw the earth
The trees had burned down to the ground.

(A futile rebellion)

Got to walk out of here
I can't take anymore
Going to stand on that bridge
Keep my eyes down below
Whatever may come
And whatever may go
That river's flowing
That river's flowing

(Islam's kicked in...)

Moved on to another town
Tried hard to settle down
For every job, so many men
So many men no-one needs


A fabulous prize will be awarded to the winner who gets the composer and the year.

Even better, Donald Trump will forgive you.

ADE

12/21/2006 07:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ADE, "A fabulous prize will be awarded to the winner who gets the composer and the year."

Peter Gabriel, 1986

12/21/2006 08:12:00 AM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Holy C_w!

While I've been away everybody has morphed into a theologian!

;-)


I think these disputes are best exemplified in the old Jewish joke about the tiny shtetl near the border of Poland and Russia in the late 1800's, which had only two Jews. But it had three temples.

One for the one guy, the other for the second, and the third one that neither would step foot in!

Jamie Irons

12/21/2006 08:21:00 AM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

WC,

Oh dear, you're right.

Now that you've won, here's the bad news: I'm the prize.

But hey, think of the intellectual discourse.

It's a great song. I wish I could get a link to it, but I don't know how. I'm playing it at the moment.

Love, ADE

PS What have you done that Donald Trump would forgive you? I know, you're soft.

ADE

12/21/2006 08:35:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Doug, in the piece you posted, I would have highlighted a different section, the part that names names of those high-ranking (and rich) Saudi royals who actively support the Wahhabi religious police. I'm also assuming that means they're actively funneling money to terrorists all over the world:

The pro-Wahhabi clique is led by three individuals: Prince Sultan Ibn Abd al-Aziz, minister of defense; Prince Bandar, predecessor of Turki as ambassador to Washington; and Sultan's brother, Prince Nayef.

I wonder where Turki, the ex-ambassador, stands.

And I still think that Cheney's flight to Riyadh and meeting with Abdullah had to do with presenting proof of which people named Saud have been funding terrorism, including (perhaps) 9/11.

We've been blaming everything on people named bin Laden, but there's a hell of a lot more Saud's than there are bin Ladens ... AND some of them are in positions of great power.

12/21/2006 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

The Shiites are talking seriously about taking down Al-Sadr, by force if necessary. They met with Sistani today.

Senior members of Iraq's Shi'ite Alliance are pressing Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki to go after the Shi'ite militia loyal to cleric Moqtada al-Sadr if he wants to save his government from collapse, Alliance sources say.

In a significant admission that forces linked to one of their own allies behind much of the violence in Baghdad, the sources said Sadr's Mehdi Army was a serious threat to the government and the Alliance risks losing everything...

An Alliance delegation went to the holy city of Najaf on Thursday to seek a meeting with Sadr and other religious leaders, one of the team said, without giving further details.

"They are trying to solve it politically but I doubt that it will lead to anything," said another senior Shi'ite official. "The situation is becoming intolerable."

Another senior Shi'ite Alliance official said Maliki must act now. "The main problem for the government now is ... the Mehdi Army militia,"...

Askari said Sadr had pledged support for the government after he met Maliki more than two months ago, yet both his political movement and the militias had gone back on that.

"Both groups have broken all the promises he made. The situation is dangerous now," Askari said. "All we ask of him (Sadr) is that he publicly disavow those groups who are acting outside the law so the government can act and take them on."

Alliance sources said Shi'ite leaders were weighing a number of choices including limited military operations, perhaps with backing from multinational forces, to stem rogue militias in the Mehdi Army, mainly in Sadr City in Baghdad.


Link

12/21/2006 09:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ADE said, "PS What have you done that Donald Trump would forgive you? I know, you're soft."

I dunno. I share some things in common with Rosie, and he wants to sue her.

12/21/2006 09:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jamie Irons said, "While I've been away everybody has morphed into a theologian!"

Every now and then one of Wretchard's threads turns into a religious free-for-all, but at least this time the original post could be construed as a trigger.

12/21/2006 09:04:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

hey, Roy Rodgers's horse was construed as a Trigger. and he too was often tied to the post. but not saddled with pointless comments like this one.

12/21/2006 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger Promethea said...

Jamie Irons . . .

Your joke about the two Jews and three synagogues is classic. I think Wretchard, after he recovers from his jet lag and wanders around Israel a bit, is going to find out that it is not even a joke--it's reality.

Most people have all kinds of stereotyped views about what Israel (and Jerusalem) are like, but once they get there--and keep their eyes open--they will be surprised.

Wretchard will be a good observer.

12/21/2006 09:29:00 AM  
Blogger Jeffrey said...

Here's a video put together from footage collected by soldier blogger Armor Geddon's Avenger Company during Fallujah II.

Fallujah II.

Good sound and image editing (and catchy tunes). Armor Geddon is a tank platoon commander, so you also get some nice footage of Abrams tanks in action.

*

12/21/2006 09:41:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Jamie Irons said...

Holy C_w!

While I've been away everybody has morphed into a theologian!
///////////////
imho what pastors rabbis priests have in commen with (good)novelists and screenwriters is that both believe that character is destiny.

on the order of a thought makes an action, an action makes a habit, a habit makes character and a character makes a destiny.

theology is about the character of God--which men can aspire to immitate. philosophy is about the character of man which comes naturally.

12/21/2006 10:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charles said, "...theology is about the character of God--which men can aspire to immitate. philosophy is about the character of man which comes naturally."

Protestant theology says the natural character of man is like dung, which cannot be improved, but only covered over by trusting in the character of God the Father to look only on the character of God the Son.

Catholic theology says the natural character of man falls short of the perfect character of God, and so we rely on the infusion of the perfect character of God the Son to make us objectively acceptable to God the Father.

12/21/2006 11:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Promethea said, "Most people have all kinds of stereotyped views about what Israel (and Jerusalem) are like, but once they get there--and keep their eyes open--they will be surprised."

Most tourist's accounts I've read of the Old City cannot help but betray a certain disillusionment, even anger, at the conditions there, almost enough to make one fashion a whip from cords and drive out the moneychangers. Fortunately my personal theology attaches no significance to certain geographical locations. We ourselves are temples of the Holy Spirit.

12/21/2006 11:57:00 AM  
Blogger Das said...

I am haunted by Wretchard's description of the Israeli airline El Al's flight path restrictions over the middle east.

Then I think about all of our leaders who have taken Gulf oil money by speaking at events in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the U.E.A. Before picking up the fat check it is my impression that these leaders ladle on the butter and compliments to these regimes. Would it be too much to ask our leaders who go to these countries to speak that they challenge their hosts a bit? The prospect of American leadership licking the bums of these despots fills me with revulsion. Why not push them to come to grips with Israel? To liberalize their own societies? Somehow I don't think our leading lights on the lecture circuit do this...

12/21/2006 12:04:00 PM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

Speaking of religious disputes, here's a violent Christian one in today's newspaper.

Wednesday's violence involved rival groups of monks carrying crowbars and sledgehammers — and is part of a longstanding dispute led by a rebel monastery which opposes efforts by the Orthodox Church to improve relations with the Vatican...

Video footage recorded by cell phone and broadcast on Greek television showed monks using sledgehammers to try and break into the compound where the rebel monks are holed up.

Violence broke out as the rebel monks attacked the intruders with crowbars and fire extinguishers.


Link

12/21/2006 12:29:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

Them Catholics, always havin' a high opinion of themselves:)

12/21/2006 12:30:00 PM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

> Why not push them to come to grips with Israel?

UAE, Kuwait, and in the past Saudi Arabia allowed us to base troops in their countries. They are actually some of the least negative towards Israel, compared to Syria and Iran.

12/21/2006 12:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"on the order of a thought makes an action, an action makes a habit, a habit makes character and a character makes a destiny. "
---
On the order of a feeling takes an action, an action creates reaction, a reaction confirms the feeling and victimhood is destiny.

12/21/2006 01:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Liberalism is about the victimhood of man, which is naturally selected for by Socialism.

12/21/2006 01:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nahncee said,
"
I wonder where Turki, the ex-ambassador, stands.
"
---
I came across that piece in my search for old Al Turkey, since about a week ago I read a very interesting article about the timing of his leavetaking from Washington.
I'm still looking.
This guy claims he's a good guy,
I've yet to be convinced.

12/21/2006 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Promethea,

There's a variant of this joke that I heard more recently; in some ways it's even funnier than, though not as delightfully concise as, the first.

In this version a Jew is found on a remote South Pacific atoll twenty years after he was thought to have been lost at sea in the accidental sinking of a cruise ship. This being the modern world of Oprah and Geraldo, soon after he is discovered, a horde of news types descends on the island. The lead reporter asks him, "Mr. Roth, how did you keep yourself from dying of boredom all these years."

He leads the news people to a place hidden by palm trees, where he has constructed a magnificent temple out of local materials; there is even a Torah made of palm leaves and written by hand with octopus ink.

"Wow! How long did it take you to build all this?!"

"I labored for five years."

"But that still leaves fifteen years. What did you do with the rest of your time?"

"Come," Roth says, and he leads the group to the other side of the island, where, beside a small waterfall and lovely deep pool of clear water, he has constructed a still more magnificent temple, much more ornate than, and three times as large as, the first.

"Utterly amazing! How long did it take you to make all this?"

"Twelve years," Roth replies.

The newsman appears puzzled. "But why would you bother to construct two temples?"

Roth gestures reverently toward the temple the news people are all gazing at in wonder. "This is where I worship," he says. And with a gesture of contempt toward the first temple he showed them, he adds, "I wouldn't be caught dead in that dump!"


;-)


Jamie Irons

12/21/2006 01:12:00 PM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

Muqtada al-Sadr has agreed to allow his supporters to rejoin the Iraqi government and end a three-week boycott protesting the prime minister’s meeting with President Bush, officials close to the radical Shiite cleric said Thursday.


I wonder if al-Sadr agreed to the one month cease fire?

12/21/2006 01:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wouldn't be caught dead writing about one of Philip Roth's Humps!
;-)

12/21/2006 01:22:00 PM  
Blogger Promethea said...

Jamie Irons . . .

So, you think it couldn't happen?

/Channeling ancestors ;-)

12/21/2006 01:33:00 PM  
Blogger unaha-closp said...

UAE, Kuwait, and in the past Saudi Arabia allowed us to base troops in their countries. They are actually some of the least negative towards Israel, compared to Syria and Iran.

...examined Saudi textbooks used during the past school year, and found the following teachings, which were verified by NBC News:

Jews and Christians are "enemies" of Muslims.

Every religion other than Islam is "false."

"The hour [of Judgment] will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them."

12/21/2006 01:59:00 PM  
Blogger charlotte said...

In these days of jihad against the secular West, against Christiandom and against Judaism, Woman Catholic instructs us on important religious points:

Protestant theology says the natural character of man is like dung, which cannot be improved, but only covered over...

Catholic theology says the natural character of man falls short of the perfect character of God, and so we rely on the infusion of the perfect character of...

I'm not even sure who here asked for this wonderful Theo-scatology in a Nutshell overview, but may I add that it all works out in the end, as in:

Blessed are the publicly pious, the preachy and sanctimonious, and those who lay claim to the superior way, for they shall inherit an aseptic and sterile earth not contaminated (and fertilized) by the redeemed dung character of man.

12/21/2006 02:17:00 PM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

Saudi Arabia put forward a peace plan which recognizes the right of Israel to exist, and lets it keep territory which bin Laden and Iran think must be Muslim only, the Caliphate. Iran by contrast, has threatened to nuke Israel.

12/21/2006 02:21:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

Dung--I suppose the reference is to the Lutes, but one should be cautious lumping all the dung in one pile, as protestant theology is quite varied. Starting quite early,too, as that Pelagius fellow might be thought a protestant of sorts, having been canned. The theological streams meander about, flowing through a big delta, to the sea.

12/21/2006 02:38:00 PM  
Blogger charlotte said...

The Protestant dung ref on a thread about Israel was just another out-of-the-blue grace note of manure. At Hanukah and Christmastime.

12/21/2006 03:01:00 PM  
Blogger charlotte said...

Yours is a humorous save, though, bobalharb :)

12/21/2006 03:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Judaism makes it clear, God is unknowable. And the story of Judaism and Israel is not about an unknowable god; it is about the nation of Israel and its national homeland. You will not find God in any Jerusalem building or ancient architecture. But you will find the image of God in the great diversity of the people's faces and the diversity of their land. (Wretchard, make sure you walk the pine forest(s) of Mt Carmel, near Beit Oren. Some beautiful forest there, with great mushrooms for mushroom soup :)

12/21/2006 04:38:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Wu Wei: Shortly after he took office in Afghanistan, Karzai made an incredible statement: "We see eye to eye with Israel on responding to terrorism."

Both counties obviously see the problem as being not Islam but Arabs.

12/21/2006 04:57:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

re: Holy C_w!

That is definitely not the case! I was taught Holy C-lf!!

12/21/2006 05:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Savage does not share NY Times POV!
Shock!
---
From Dirty Harry to Dirty Liar. (michaelsavage.com)
Review of “Letters from Iwo Jima”
The astonishing transformation of Clint Eastwood...
---
In one astonishing scene old Clint has the audacity to show besieged Japanese troops, treating an American prisoner with compassion, giving him their last morphine injections!

12/21/2006 07:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

bobalharb said, "Dung--I suppose the reference is to the Lutes, but one should be cautious lumping all the dung in one pile, as protestant theology is quite varied."

It was Martin Luther who said, "Human nature is like a dung heap covered by snow," but ill-informed Protestants cry foul, scat, it's Hanukkah, it's Christmas, and attribute ill-will to the Catholic who cited him. It is worth it, however, to probe the depth of that person's edumacation, lest one find oneself wasting time in an attempt to exchange information.

12/21/2006 08:10:00 PM  
Blogger charlotte said...

Thank you for your gracious edification, Woman Catholic, and for all your biblical teachings, moral authority, and concern over my poor education. Even though I (miraculously) had known of Luther’s old analogy, I should have been more grateful for the compare-and-contrast dogmatic manner in which you invoked dung on a thread touching upon the weariness of religious division.

Merry Christmas!

12/21/2006 08:37:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

Catherine,

A nony moose
A nony moose
A nony moose
A nony moose

Ring silver bells
Ring silver bells

Sorry, got caught up in the Schadenfreude of the season.

Hey, you, Trish, and I were having a great time the other day, when, Poof, you both vanished from the screen. Did I offend you in some way?

12/21/2006 10:34:00 PM  
Blogger charlotte said...

Not at all, Allen. Just obligations and distractions. Happy Hanukkah and thanks for the jingle!

(I really liked that follow-on wrap-up comment you made at the time, btw.)

12/21/2006 11:06:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

catherine,

Thanks!

Merry Christmas to you, if we do not cross paths before then.

I would like our festival much more, if we could work in some battle axes, arrows, and slings into the Klieg lighting. I'll pass on the hog's head, for obvious reasons.

;-)

12/21/2006 11:13:00 PM  
Blogger charlotte said...

That’s the philosophical warrior in you, Allen, ever mindful that some good and necessary things are achieved through war, that there are times we have to do battle for one’s ways and beliefs or for others.

G'night. I'm zonking out :)

12/22/2006 12:00:00 AM  
Blogger Judith said...

"True, but it also requires an eye as a minimum, and not thirty-nine stripes, for example, or a little pinky up to the first knuckle."

No it's a metaphor. Like pays for like. All recompense is proportionate to the crime, regardless of social status. No literal eyes involved, almost always restitution was monetary unless a capital offense.

12/22/2006 01:31:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

My Rebbi’s better than your Reb
My Rebbi’s better than yours
My Rebbi says don’t read Shamei
My Rebbi’s better than yours

And, behold, it was very good!

;-D

12/22/2006 03:42:00 PM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

wc:

Most tourist's accounts I've read of the Old City cannot help but betray a certain disillusionment, even anger, at the conditions there, almost enough to make one fashion a whip from cords and drive out the moneychangers.

Now aint that special.... nice "misplaced" jew baiting line... now who are those "money changers" ? Swedes?...

wC: Fortunately my personal theology attaches no significance to certain geographical locations. We ourselves are temples of the Holy Spirit.

yeah yeah...

then what is it ANY of your business and why make SUCH a loaded statement?

12/22/2006 07:38:00 PM  

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