Monday, November 27, 2006

The Red and the Green

First it began with cars. Then it progressed to more and more complex acts of aggression. Michel Gurfinkiel of the Jean-Jacques Rousseau Institute in Paris, writes about the specter haunting France in the Weekly Standard.


Mama Galledou, a 26-year-old student from Senegal .... was nearly burned alive on October 28 as she was traveling by bus through Marseille's 13th district ... Galledou's tragic fate is a microcosm of the crisis now engulfing France. In recent weeks, torching buses has suddenly become prevalent in the Paris suburbs and other urban areas ... Le Monde, the country's authoritative (if left-wing) paper of record, ran a front-page story about this new development and noted that it usually requires a much higher level of organization and discipline than casual car torching.  ... There have also been cases of organized large-scale stoning, or caillassage, as it is called in contemporary French slang ...

In order to avoid getting bogged down in immigrant enclaves the police responsibly redeployed away from initially limited centers of trouble in order to contain it from without. Then, by engaging in dialogue with the respected statesmen of the hostile force, the authorities attempted address the root causes of discontent and broker a general peace. But the containment was soon broken and contrary to expectation, the centers of trouble grew and spread. The withdrawn police did not find safety; they were pursued and finally became the hunted. The hostile cells spread within their newly established enclaves and cleared all resistance. They became criminal states within a democratic state, lords of their realm. And with their new found control over territory they acquired a new source of power: vote blocs which could be committed en masse. In a France suddenly split between those who wished to resist and those who wished to surrender, the attackers themselves held the electoral balance between resistance and surrender.

More often than not, the CRS or police were not just attacked but ambushed ... "this is not just a matter of angry unemployed youths who get violent at times," but "something carefully planned. ... Since we avoid going inside, where they are, they attack us outside, where we are." ...  They forced the last native French or European inhabitants out, and made it increasingly difficult for the police to enter and monitor the projects. Later, fundamentalist Islamic brotherhoods asserted themselves in the projects, or cités, as they are called ....  On the one hand, the fundamentalists intended to protect the immigrant community against everything the gangs stood for: drugs, alcohol, sexual promiscuity, easy money from crime. On the other hand, they derived benefits from the ethnic enclave status the gangs had secured. ... The gangs masterminded unprecedented "youth riots"; the fundamentalists then restored civil peace, and won as a reward de facto pardon for most rioters, a "less provocative" police presence in the suburbs, i.e., no "cleansing," more privileges for Islam as "France's second and most quickly growing religion," and recognition for themselves as national leaders.  .... The riots last year clearly ended as a victory for both the gangs and the fundamentalist imams. Why, then, are they being reenacted? ...  the new wave of violence is an intervention in the coming national elections: the presidential election in April and May 2007 and then the parliamentary election of June.  ...

Yet paradoxically, the more brutal the hostile leaders were, the more eagerly French pacifists, liberals and men of the Left courted their support. The sheer capacity for violence of the Islamic immigrant gangs rekindled revolutionary hope among aging socialists who saw a chance to reverse the verdict of history; to to regain the vision of their youth; to mount a new French Revolution. Not with their spindly limbs but upon the broad backs of those who waved the flag of green. The Reds were certain of what would happen afterward. Did not Marx and Lenin guarantee the triumph of the proletariat, the Flag of Red? What was there to fear in temporarily joining forces with the priests of a backward 8th century cult? With that assurance was born the Green and Red alliance: the Green horse of Islam beneath the Red jockey of socialism.

Indeed, there are intellectuals on the left and right who relish the prospect of a new French Revolution, and welcome the suburban rioters as its spearhead. Nothing is more revealing, in this respect, than the success of a feverish political novel, Supplément au roman national (A Sequel to the National Narrative), by 28-year-old author Jean- ric Boulin. Published two months ago, it forecasts a "social and racial" revolution in France in 2007. First a wave of suicide bombings in Paris. Then martial law. Then, finally, the great rebellion of the French poor: the native underclass, the Arabs, and the blacks, who unite under the green flag of Islam and the tricolor of France and march on Paris--as a sort of Commune in reverse. Boulin gallantly supports such an outcome. ... Still, it would be wise not to write off entirely the possibility of a green-red alliance. ...

But historically Islam always had other ideas than to be used. In the history of Islam's expansion over the world it was always the sophisticated rebels of the settled societies which sought to use them which in the end wound up used. Those who sought to harness Islam for their domestic ambitions were themselves eventually swallowed. Losing everything: their lives; their treasure and finally their symbols. Gurfinkiel writes, "even the green flag of Islam was borrowed from non-Arabs: It was originally the symbol of rebellion in Byzantium, the equivalent in its day of the red flag in ours." The banner of Islam's collaborators was appropriated and the memory of its causes -- as that of Byzantium itself -- faded from reckoning. Only Islam remained.

There is a historical precedent in the spread of Islam itself, in the 7th century ...  In fact, the Arabs didn't outright conquer Palestine, Syria, Anatolia, Egypt, North Africa, Iraq, and the Iranian plateau. They struck alliances with the local rebels: the Copts and the Syriacs, the Nestorians and the Donatists, the Jews and the Mardakites, with those who spoke neither Greek nor Persian and shared neither the beliefs of the basileus nor those of the shah. Even the green flag of Islam was borrowed from non-Arabs: It was originally the symbol of rebellion in Byzantium, the equivalent in its day of the red flag in ours. Can history repeat itself, and fundamentalist Islam subdue Europe in the 21st century with the help of European extremists? Will the green flag and the red flag wave side by side? Buses are burning in France and nobody, so far, seems to know how to stop that.

It was not that nobody knew how to banish the specter, just that no one wanted to try.

113 Comments:

Blogger sam said...

Green horse/red jockey...brilliant.

11/27/2006 10:29:00 PM  
Blogger 49erDweet said...

And now, ladies and gentlemen, set to open on Western Shores - fresh from the capitols of Europe -"Bowing Down to Islam". a social drama in three red-green acts presented by the Dhimmocrat Players. Premiers in selected locations on the east coast in January, 2007.

11/27/2006 10:30:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

The Arab invasions of the late-mid seventh century also caused the Iconoclastic controversy that split the empire for its entire history, an arbitrary theological innovation imposed by Leo III as a talsman to drive Arabs from eastern Anatolia and Syria and pry them off Crete, Sicily, and other Aegean islands. Affiliation with either the iconoclasts or iconophiles determined the course of dynasties, providing a remarkably familiar basis for disagreement that exacerbated weakness during interregna - particularly during regencies. It inflamed religious passion generally as it worked its acid through the religious hierarchy - of which the Emperor was nominally the head - in a time when Christianity had not reached a point of unanimity and had a profound effect on how friendly many of the near eastern often Nestorian or Monophysite Christians viewed their would-be conquerors. This was particularly important when Byzantine armies were composed of forces whose local loyalties to regional counts played a part in the decision concerning whom to ally with. And this was at a time when the Persian Empire, against whom Rome had waged a huge war and prevailed, was in complete collapse, and the Umayyad Caliphate was at maximum expansion velocity. And the Arabs had finished the Shah off at some battle like al Kaasadiyeh I can never remember the name of in the mid 7th century. With no Persia to force the nearby Byzantine provinces into compliance with the emperor, and with barbarian incursions on all Rome/Constantinople's fronts withering away the treasury and armies, the outer provinces began to feel simultaneously exposed and emboldened. The obvious parallel with the demise of the USSR and a suddenly assertive EU in the immediate wake (10-15 years) of that collapse - and remember the Ur-victory for bin Laden is the one the mujahideen in Afghanistan inflicted on the USSR - is a little startling, I think.

11/27/2006 10:53:00 PM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

In order to avoid getting bogged down...responsibly redeployed away...contain it...engaging in dialogue with the respected statesmen of the hostile force...address the root causes of discontent...

Paris = Baghdad, and here I was thinking that only the US had no post victory strategy.

As the scorpion said to the frog, "It's in my nature".

ADE

11/27/2006 11:49:00 PM  
Blogger sam said...

From Air Force One, the president spoke to the leaders of France and Egypt.

Addressing the upcoming meetings with al-Maliki, Hadley said, "We're clearly in a new phase characterized by an increase in sectarian violence that requires us to adapt to that new phase."


Diplomatic Efforts on Iraq

11/28/2006 12:11:00 AM  
Blogger HK Vol said...

I wonder if France will "lead the way" in expelling all of these "non-patriotic" residents back to their countries of origin?

Is there a tipping point in France? Or do they let anarchy reign?

11/28/2006 01:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wretchard: ...by engaging in dialogue with the respected statesmen of the hostile force, the authorities attempted address the root causes of discontent...

Heh.

I'd note that French Socialistic job security laws really do place a concrete barrier around profitable careers, discriminating hard against immigrants. But still... heh.

11/28/2006 02:07:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

A more apt metaphor would be bullet tracers used in Viet Nam. The VC incoming was green and the US red. Quite the light show. The closer they got the more meaningful the experience.

11/28/2006 04:45:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The newest meme I've seen here, that the US performanve has been so inept in Iraq and Afghanistan that it must be part of the "Plan".

A conspiracy of the Military and Civilian Leaders on the most grand of scales. Leaders that are so competent that they can feign incompetentence for years at a strech. That these same Leaders would relinguish their political power in pursuit of this Grand Conspiracy just proves it true.

I'll pass on sippin' that Kool-Aid, thank you very much.

11/28/2006 06:22:00 AM  
Blogger Papa Bear said...

It is natural for the Communists and the Islamists to find common ground. They are both fundamentally Statists: both intensely hostile to individualism, hostile to the idea of people working on their own goals. The Statist believes that individuals are the property of the State, and their lives are to be spent forwarding the goals of the State/Ummah/whatever, with those goals being formulated by the politically aware elite (or theologically aware imams).

Think of the alliance as being like the Hitler/Stalin pact: both sides know they will eventually devour each other, but first they must deal with those hated worms who believe in personal freedom

11/28/2006 06:56:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

The problem is international law. I've just spent the last semester studying it and there is no chance that complying with international law will allow us to win. No chance. That's why we have the rules of engagement we have, and that's why they look so goddamn stupid. These are not laws to win wars, but to prevent wars and prosecute the losing side. That's it.

11/28/2006 07:18:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

dan now echoes C4, must be something to it, aye?

11/28/2006 07:21:00 AM  
Blogger Cruiser said...

Dan and DR, while I generally don't read C4's posts closely, he and Dan are correct that our weakness is largely a result of the state of international and U.S. law. Both sets of laws have since the 1960's gone haywire in granting of "rights" to persons. Those who have championed the rights expansion have either given little thought to the fact that each right granted to a person takes away the right of people to act collectively, or have championed the rights hoping to destroy the "collective" institutions they revile.

11/28/2006 08:02:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

George Bush's crime to all the internationalists, leftists, and many who comment here is his recalcitrance to be pragmatic.

Yet it is this same pragmetism that leads France down the path of national suicide. It is the same pragmetism I hear from "leaders" of the Democrats here.

"Pragmatic leader" is an oxymoron.

11/28/2006 08:05:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Ahh, enscout, Mr Bush's problem with many in the US is his embrace of pragmetism and the abandonment of his nonpragmatic '02 rhetoric and pledges of action.

He has achieved what he pledged the US would not do, fallen short in prosecuting the Mohammedan Terror, breaking the promises made, oh so many years ago.

11/28/2006 08:25:00 AM  
Blogger istarious said...

Desert Rat: "The newest meme I've seen here, that the US performanve has been so inept in Iraq and Afghanistan that it must be part of the "Plan".

A conspiracy of the Military and Civilian Leaders on the most grand of scales. Leaders that are so competent that they can feign incompetentence for years at a strech. That these same Leaders would relinguish their political power in pursuit of this Grand Conspiracy just proves it true."



C'mon! You trying to tell me that the stupefying incompetence of the Bush administration is not deliberate? pffffft

11/28/2006 08:25:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Oh, it may be deliberate, but it is not part of a "Master Plan" for ultimate Victory against the Mohammedans and their Religion of Peace.

11/28/2006 08:32:00 AM  
Blogger istarious said...

So, you're arguing that it's deliberate but purposeless. Why would that be?

11/28/2006 08:33:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Not purposeless, just not the purpose advertised.

But allowing "Hezzbollah in Iraq" to be part of the UIA coalition just provides a name we all recongnize to paint a picture of who is involved in the Iraqi Government.

Catch & Release is indicitive of the Administrations lack of seriousness in combating Iraqi Insurgents. We have been "Staying the Course" for years, the destination was not unforeseen.

The Religion of Peace mantra, was and is the truth, as seen by Mr Bush. He is, was and will not be pulled into a "Clash of Civilizations". He TRUELY BELIEVES that Islam is a Religion of Peace. He is going to prove it. Come hell or high water.

11/28/2006 08:40:00 AM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

I said some bad things about President Bush, but I'll be the first to say his speech today, was excellent, exactly what needed to be said.

President Bush, under pressure to change direction in Iraq, said Tuesday he will not be persuaded by any calls to withdraw American troops before the country is stabilized.

"There's one thing I'm not going to do, I'm not going to pull our troops off the battlefield before the mission is complete," he said in a speech setting the stage for high-stakes meetings with the Iraqi prime minister later this week. "We can accept nothing less than victory for our children and our grandchildren."
...
"We'll continue to be flexible and we'll make the changes necessary to succeed," the president said.

Bush pushed back against skeptics of his goal of spreading freedom across the Middle East. "I understand these doubts but I do not share them," the president said.

11/28/2006 08:42:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

rat:
You and others here remind me of my kids when they were young....truly part of the instant gratification crowd.

I think we are still winning in Iraq because I'm not concerned that Iraqis have turned on each other. It will take at least a generation for them to sort out their greivences.

I might be the only one here that thinks "stay the course" is still our best option.

Now tell me about the "promises" GWB made to you that he didn't keep.

11/28/2006 08:44:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Mr Bush's promices, made in speaches is worthless, w.w.

His most important speaches, the State of the Union, tell that tale, in his own words matched against subsequent reality are the best proof or that.

Feel free to read his '02 State of the Union. It charts a course far from the one taken.

Mr Bush promising a Global War on Terror.
Delivering much much less.

11/28/2006 08:46:00 AM  
Blogger istarious said...

He is, was and will not be pulled into a "Clash of Civilizations".

Then he should be voted out.

11/28/2006 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

> I think we are still winning in Iraq because I'm not concerned that Iraqis have turned on each other.

I agree. Just like the cold war this will be mostly patience, temporary political alliances, and covert fighting.

11/28/2006 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger Ash said...

yikes wu wei, Bush's recent rhetoric is nothing new and as deluded as ever. He keeps yammering on about staying til the job is done ect. yet he has no clue as to what is going on in Iraq. He's still touting the 'it's all Al Qaeda's fault'. Kill them and peace and democracy will reign...pfffft!

Bush Blames Al Qaeda for Wave of Iraq Violence

11/28/2006 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

sure, ensout.
We will start and end, for now, with the '02 State of the Union.
All the below quotes are from that speach.

"... So long as training camps operate, so long as nations harbor terrorists, freedom is at risk. And America and our allies must not, and will not, allow it. ...
...
... The man and women of our Armed Forces have delivered a message now clear to every enemy of the United States: Even 7,000 miles away, across oceans and continents, on mountaintops and in caves -- you will not escape the justice of this nation. ...
...
The man and women of our Armed Forces have delivered a message now clear to every enemy of the United States: Even 7,000 miles away, across oceans and continents, on mountaintops and in caves -- you will not escape the justice of this nation. ...
...
A terrorist underworld -- including groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Jaish-i-Mohammed -- operates in remote jungles and deserts, and hides in the centers of large cities. ... ...But some governments will be timid in the face of terror. And make no mistake about it: If they do not act, America will. ...
...
Our second goal is to prevent regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction. ... ...In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic.
We will work closely with our coalition to deny terrorists and their state sponsors the materials, technology, and expertise to make and deliver weapons of mass destruction. ... ...We'll be deliberate, yet time is not on our side. I will not wait on events, while dangers gather. I will not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons. ...
...
Our war on terror is well begun, but it is only begun. This campaign may not be finished on our watch -- yet it must be and it will be waged on our watch.
We can't stop short. If we stop now -- leaving terror camps intact and terror states unchecked -- our sense of security would be false and temporary. History has called America and our allies to action, and it is both our responsibility and our privilege to fight freedom's fight.
..."


Now since that speach Terrorist training amps have set up or are continuing to operate in Somalia, Sudan, Lebanon, Iran, Syria & Pakistan.
Mr Bush stopped short

Since that speah North Korea has setonated a nulear device.
Mr Bush stopped short

So those are multiple promises, all rallying around the War on Terror, where Mr Bush and his Administration, to include the Military has stopped short, in violation of his Pledge.

11/28/2006 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11/28/2006 09:25:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

"Time is short" Mr Bush told US, then in the face of an Iraqi quagmire declared US to be in a "Long War".

"you will not escape the justice of this nation.", but even though Osama may be dead, or not, Doc Z is alive and kickin'.

I could go on, but I think you can get the drift of the broken pledges of action.
Actions not limited to Iraq.

11/28/2006 09:28:00 AM  
Blogger istarious said...

"A terrorist underworld -- including groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Jaish-i-Mohammed -- operates in remote jungles and deserts, and hides in the centers of large cities.."


The Jihadi "underworld" operates in plain view and with in your face open support. Who's hiding? What kind of Orwellian blinkers does someone need to fart out these kind of asinine statements?

11/28/2006 09:36:00 AM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

> Bush's recent rhetoric is nothing new and as deluded as ever

This is the first time he said it after the election. By firing Rumsfeld and then saying nothing more than he was considering his options, Bush encouraged the terrorist leaders in Iran, Hezbollah, etc.

11/28/2006 09:38:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

DR,

Broken Promises

__Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide
What is Waziristan?

__No aid to the terrorist Hamas government
What are 3,000 M-16s and one million rounds of ammunition?
What is $400 million in "indirect" aid to the PA?

__Oath to uphold and defend the Constitution
What is McCain-Feingold, which was characterized by Mr. Bush as "unconstitutional?"

11/28/2006 09:40:00 AM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

> Mr Bush stopped short

It just isn't over yet. Bush is patient and willing to use all the tools available, including negotiations, sanctions, political alliances, special forces, and conventional fighting.

I understand the other viewpoint, that all problems can instantly be solved by military foce, but I don't agree with it. Saying that convention warfare is the solution to everything seems as big a mistake as pacifists who say we never need war.

11/28/2006 09:41:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

DR,

Didn't Mr. Bush castigate Mr. Gore repeatedly for what he characterized as the Clinton administration's habituation to "nation building". Indeed, Mr. Bush promised that his administration would not get into the business of "nation building."

What is Iraq?

11/28/2006 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

rat:

Despite all the sniping at our intelligence agencies and the gross amount of info leaked to the MSM, I'm thinking there are activities out there of which you & I are unaware.

You've been sucked in by the rhetoric of the MSM and destracted by the battles in Iraq & Afghanistan. Battles, by the way, in which we have, despite ridiculous ROE's, given an excellent account of ourselves. And please don't argue with me on that DR, take it up with our guys there that are doing the fighting.

To me the bottom line is security here. If you want to beleive that GW & the ME wars have nothing to do with the fact that we haven't been hit again then so be it.

11/28/2006 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

DR,

Didn't Mr. Bush vow that Iran would never be permitted to go nuclear?
__What is Iran doing this very moment?

11/28/2006 09:47:00 AM  
Blogger Wu Wei said...

> “The Maliki government is going to have to deal with that violence and we want to help them do so,” the president said. “It’s in our interest that we succeed.”

That's another excellent quote from the President today. It shows that we will let the Iraqis fight their own civil wars, not do it for them. That's exactly what needs to be said, that it is an Iraqi problem, but we will help and will not leave Iraq until the problem is solved.

11/28/2006 09:47:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

Well yes, US law is a problem currently, but we can change that unilaterally in all sorts of useful ways.

International law, however, is another matter.

11/28/2006 10:00:00 AM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Papa Bear - It is natural for the Communists and the Islamists to find common ground. They are both fundamentally Statists: both intensely hostile to individualism, hostile to the idea of people working on their own goals. The Statist believes that individuals are the property of the State....

I'm afraid you don't understand communism or Islam, or both. Islam violently opposes communism wherever it manifests itself. Communism per se at it's core is secular and organized so that the Party and Mankind define all law and morality, with no religious component.

Islam does not believe individuals are the property of the State. Under Islam, individuals are free to pursue just about any job they want, and what they do in the privacy of their houses is their business. They believe that each individual has an individual relationship with God bounded by common law and religious instruction - but there is no Central Politburo of Mullahs, only individual scholars and schools of thought of varying reputation whose instructions, guidance, and fatwas may or may not be accepted by the individual Muslim. (Very decentralized).

There is no common ground. They are oil and water. Islamists may be OK to be just like Bush - Free Market, Free Trade, Globalist, Open Borders capitalism lovers out to further enrich the rich at the expense of the masses. Binnie has no problem with that model, nor the Saudi rulers - just over the Saudi's money leading to embrace of of infidel vice, temptation.

Both the Saudis and AQ agree.

They cannot be communists, and good Muslims at the same time.That is why both are bulwarks against the Commies.

They can be 100% behind what Bush believes macro-economically.
***************************
Enscout - You and others here remind me of my kids when they were young....truly part of the instant gratification crowd.

Aside from the patronizing tone, I don't believe that people who stuck by Bush only to slowly grasp the utter incompetence of his team over the span of years in a conflict that has now gone on longer than we were in WWII can be called "the instant gratification crowd"

enscout - I think we are still winning in Iraq because I'm not concerned that Iraqis have turned on each other.

Our place is to position ourselves in the middle of a Civil War - where we take huge casualties and eventual blame for actions and inactions about ethnic cleansing and mass deaths? I suggest you become very worried, very fast about us being in that situation and your thinking it will be a sign of "winning".

It will take at least a generation for them to sort out their greivences.

And you want us there, taking 7,000-8,000 casualties a year, spending 180 billion a year over 20 years to better savor the thrill of "us winning" every year a little more?

enscout - I might be the only one here that thinks "stay the course" is still our best option.

I think you may be right.

enscout - Now tell me about the "promises" GWB made to you that he didn't keep.

After 9/11, Bush called it the "defining struggle of our times". He couched his language in WWII jargon, and wanted national support and also wanted us to love the Religion of Peace and accept that innocent Americans gladly suffer a large range of impositions so as to not single out "noble Muslim friends".

1. Our military is qualitatively weaker than when he took office.
2. No sacrifice was asked of any American outside "the government -paid heroes" meme.
3. No real effort was made to work on the cultural, propaganda side of "the defining struggle". Nor about changing the international covenents & laws - and domestic ones that handcuff us. Gitmo is now ringed by besieging Jewish lawyers obsessed with enemy rights, Roth's Human Rights Watch and others like Soros who seek to criminalize our troops for any action, and our domestic system of powerful secular progressive attorneys has blocked trial of anyone actually involved in 9/11 for over 5 years.
[As Rat has said - that is why we have Catch & Release, insane ROE, and inability to question IED bombers or captured insurgents to save OUR GUYs lives. And groveling guards at Gitmo fearful they will be sued by a ACLU type for "emotional or psychological pain or humiliation inflicted" on a terrorist with full human rights]

Bush & Co is unable to articulate why the laws the Jewish and Gentile secular progressives methodically created to since the late 60s to constrain and discourage America from engaging in conflict and from winning such conflicts must be ended. Why all the protections they slyly enacted involving "religious dissident minorities" and freedom fighters using right armed resistance, enemy privacy rights, "the human right to be accepted as refugees wherever they choose to settle", and to "3rd Worlders being greeted by 1st World Open Borders" must be unravelled.
4. This is the 1st "defining struggle" in American history in turn defined as about "tax cuts for the rich" coupled with China financing the war. The number of billionaires in America has gone up 45% in Bush's years and the number of people becoming millionaires from Bushie and Republican Congressional pork exceeds the number of "dead heroes" created in the last 6 years. I suppose that is a sort of "winning in Iraq" and "in the war against the few evildoers who hijacked a peaceful, noble religion".
5. Hard to consider Bush's exhortation to "Shop, Travel, be nice to your neighbor", and Cheer the government heroes keeping you perfectly safe" as the American Churchillian Equivalent of "I promise you nothing but blood, tears, toil, and sweat".

11/28/2006 10:14:00 AM  
Blogger Cruiser said...

C4 said: "Bush & Co is unable to articulate why the laws the Jewish and Gentile secular progressives methodically created to since the late 60s to constrain and discourage America from engaging in conflict and from winning such conflicts must be ended."

C4, your sentence would have been correct but more pursuasive if you left off "Jewish and Gentile". You just can't stop yourself, can you?

11/28/2006 10:24:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

cruiser,

re: C4

Cruiser, have you ever stood awestruck, as I, and wondered how the garbage truck could possibly handle one more dumpster?

11/28/2006 10:51:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Easy, boys--C4 is definitely making progress. "Jews & Gentiles" is progress. And that (*whew*) Hindus and Buddhists weren't involved in the real disaster he describes.

11/28/2006 11:00:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

allen said...
"Freedom" is not "license", something all too easily brushed aside by pseudo-intellectual graduate students and immigrants.

Ash said...
"license" to beat kids allen - no problem?
"license" for two ladies to marry - OHMIGOD!!!

Ash said...
kids are property, right? like your wife?

allen said...
ash,

I've turned over a whole, new leaf. Yes, dear friend, "Borat the Movie" has changed my life. Ash, I have surrendered my worthless life to my savior, Moe. Henceforth, it is the life of submission for me.

Inspired by your latest, I called a family meeting, during which I gave all to understand that they were chattel. Moreover, they were told to submit as if my word was the very voice of Allah. Screaming, "Allahu Akbar", I then laid into my dependents with a flyswatter.

Sadly, my dear, Ash, I was overpowered. As this is written the mental health people are attempting to force the lock of my refuge, the tool shed. Inshallah, my posting may be light for a while. When last I saw them they were unfolding a straitjacket.

(Sigh) Dear Ash, the life of the shahid is fraught with peril.

Yes, the Elephant Bar, a serious place for the seriously deranged. Link

11/28/2006 11:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re: enscout post at 9:43:09 a.m.:

True, we haven't been hit again. But wait until we're out of Iraq (which the Democratic House and Senate will ensure). I predict that then we'll be hit at home. After all, what's to stop them. And on whom will we take revenge?

11/28/2006 11:22:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Linda: "Bush".

11/28/2006 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

Allen--If you like I'd try to smuggle a lap top into your place of incarceration. Just let me know where you are somehow.

11/28/2006 11:40:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

bobal, here.

11/28/2006 11:47:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

C4:
Glad you can take up for your buddy rat since he has yet to respond. Let me see... you said,
" 1. Our military is qualitatively weaker than when he took office." On what do you base your observation? I think if you ask any trained military leader he would answer that our military is now better able to deal as a countreterrorism force against jihadists than it was when GWB made his statement to prosecute the WOT.

"2. No sacrifice was asked of any American outside "the government -paid heroes" meme."

Was this one of GWB's campaign promises? I must have missed that one.:( Or are you confusing that with GWB's position on tax cuts and the health of the economy upon which you continually whine and about which history has consistently proven you 100% wrong.

"3. No real effort was made to work on the cultural, propaganda side of "the defining struggle". Nor about changing the international covenents & laws - and domestic ones that handcuff us. Gitmo is now ringed by besieging Jewish lawyers obsessed with enemy rights, Roth's Human Rights Watch and others like Soros who seek to criminalize our troops for any action, and our domestic system of powerful secular progressive attorneys has blocked trial of anyone actually involved in 9/11 for over 5 years.
[As Rat has said - that is why we have Catch & Release, insane ROE, and inability to question IED bombers or captured insurgents to save OUR GUYs lives. And groveling guards at Gitmo fearful they will be sued by a ACLU type for "emotional or psychological pain or humiliation inflicted" on a terrorist with full human rights]"

Agreed. Bush & the right continually get overwhelmed by the volume of bullshit coming out of the big cocky media run by the left and now by the money boys in qatar. What's a social conservative to do? By the way, notice I didn't say fiscal conservative, which Bush is not and about which is my biggest disappointment. However, it isn't the job of the POTUS to spend our tax dollars, that's the role of Congress - you know, the guys who were just voted out of power by Bush haters like you & rat who voted in....oops, even bigger spending a$$holes! But, then agian, I don't remember GWB promising to rule congress but rather to bring a "new tone" to the relationship.

"Bush & Co is unable to articulate why the laws the Jewish and Gentile secular progressives methodically created to since the late 60s to constrain and discourage America from engaging in conflict and from winning such conflicts must be ended. Why all the protections they slyly enacted involving "religious dissident minorities" and freedom fighters using right armed resistance, enemy privacy rights, "the human right to be accepted as refugees wherever they choose to settle", and to "3rd Worlders being greeted by 1st World Open Borders" must be unravelled."

Er, your blaming Bush for Congessional activity since the 1960's? That's a really rational arguement C4.

"4. This is the 1st "defining struggle" in American history in turn defined as about "tax cuts for the rich" coupled with China financing the war. The number of billionaires in America has gone up 45% in Bush's years and the number of people becoming millionaires from Bushie and Republican Congressional pork exceeds the number of "dead heroes" created in the last 6 years. I suppose that is a sort of "winning in Iraq" and "in the war against the few evildoers who hijacked a peaceful, noble religion".

Sounds like more prolie class hatred C4. You may need to see a shrink about that problem. There will always be poor and rich. Get over it!
Maybe you would rather have civilian corpses here to bitch about. I admire every one of those guys that died defending our country and I think each one of them would do it over again if they had the opportunity. To use the casualties of this conflict as a point about your careless hatred of the only western world leader who has the courage to use the military is dishonest.

"5. Hard to consider Bush's exhortation to "Shop, Travel, be nice to your neighbor", and Cheer the government heroes keeping you perfectly safe" as the American Churchillian Equivalent of "I promise you nothing but blood, tears, toil, and sweat".

Well, that speaks for itself. My condolences...

11/28/2006 11:49:00 AM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

Looks like it will have to be an air drop. Can do.

11/28/2006 11:57:00 AM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Cruiser -

Attempting to understand the laws now hamstringing the USA from fighting our enemies without understanding the critical role transnationalist Jews played in the erecting of those laws is like saying we must fight terrorism - but avoid any understanding of how Islam shapes and guides terrorist actions.

The beauty is that it has come full circle on the Jewish Secular Progressives in Europe. No group worked harder to provide the intellectual and legal framework where Europe was obligated to take in masses of Muslim immigrants, and grant massive new rights under "international laws and conventions" Jewish transanitionalists and communists in France, particularly - crafted.

The full circle of course being that Europes Muslims may be grateful for all the nihilistic, anti-Western Jews did to give them immigrant rights, to set up militant groups unmolested, to enjoy the free speech rights to call on the death of Jews and infidels in the streets of London or Paris ....but not grateful enough to want the Jews around anymore, even after all the help.

That is why Jews that enabled the Muslim migration into Europe now fear for their lives in many of those countries and seek to join the Muslims now crossing other Open Borders to safer lands not yet messed up by the eventual consequences of the laws and conventions their lawyers and media and intellectuals brought into existence.

No Muslim gratitude for transnationalist Jews work on bringing the Conventions on Torture, Human Rights, the ICC and endless due process for terrorists into existence.

Just a Muslim invite for Jews to leave Spain, France.

In the USA, no group is more involved in Muslim Terrorist civil liberties and "rights" (besides CAIR) than the ACLU, which has had a Jewish Director and policy boards dominated by progressive Jews for 45 years.

To properly fight the enemies of Western Civilization, one must understand who the enemy is - be they Muslim, Jewish, or Gentile anti-West groups...and what Shadow Networks they use where Fronts they have established like CAIR, the ACLU, Code Pink, Tides Foundation - that each controls and uses to thwart America and the West's ability to defend themselves from the destruction those Muslims, progressive Jews and Gentiles wishes to cause.

And in America, those Muslim, Jewish, and progressive, anti-Western Networks DO communicate, DO work together on various America-bashing, enemy-loving causes.

To say that the Islamic part can be discussed, the Gentile part discussed, but Jews at work against America and the West cannot be, because....well...unlike Islamists...it is just wrong to discuss Jewish groups working against us ----is ridiculous.

You would think that such Jews were smart enough to worry about Muslims soon outnumbering them in America thanks to the Jewish-led 1965 Immigration REform Act, or noting how effectively their international laws have hamstrung the US and Israeli military from defeating enemies..

But you'd be wrong. All too many believe it is better to be dead or make their neighbors dead for purity of their beliefs than commonsensically observing the results of their binding laws against survival. Besides, there is always another country, hopefully, they can move to..

For the rest of us though, we have to recognize that the enemies of America consist of more than just Islamists, and defeating the Islamists means taking on those other enemies and openly discussing them and working to diminish their insidious weakening of our ability to defend ourselves.

11/28/2006 12:04:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

I'll get that lap top to that island prison if I have to use scuba gear.

11/28/2006 12:15:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Two points, C4. (1) it would not be such an emotional misstep to mischaracterize the behavior of Jewish Reds as a "Jewish" rather than a "Red" trope, if there did not (2) exist in living memory an almost unbelievable result of where such minor wrongs can and have already led.

It is this which causes the outcry you demean as illogical.

It's not illogical at all. In fact, it's the purest logic, based on empiricism as it is.

11/28/2006 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

bobal, if neither airdrop nor undersea will maintain manufacturer's warranty, you can always do like Alexander at Tyre, and build a causeway under enemy (or corrections officer, in this case) fire.

11/28/2006 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

I'm mulling the problem over. Sewers, there must be sewers to the place.

11/28/2006 12:47:00 PM  
Blogger istarious said...

You know Cedarford, there's a very simple solution to this. If the Europe, or the US, or whoever, does not like the laws and treaties they signed on to, they can rescind those laws and treaties. You know, rescinding laws and treaties has been done before, and I can assure you will be done again. And if the Joooish Nihilist Transnationalist don't like it, well, he can make a difference and cast another vote for Chirac in the next French election..

11/28/2006 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger Cruiser said...

C4 said: "transnationalist Jews"

Are those the ones with the horns, C4?

Seriously though, disregarding all of your rhetoric regarding the grand conspiracy of the "transnationalist Jews", we can agree that the ACLU and other similarly minded "civil rights" organizations are relentlessly destroying our ability to defend ourselves and to win righteous wars.

I would not characterize the civil rights groups as enemies though. I would say that they are terribly misguided and naive. Our goal should be to inoculate the American public against their seductive but naive goals. After all, who can be against giving more "civil rights". I posted on a related issue once at http://halbarad.blogspot.com/2005/09/when-giving-is-taking-or-danger-of.html#comments.

It (inoculation) can be done, btw. The Republicans have had some success in educating the public on “activist judges”, which is no less esoteric, than this concept. Indeed, it is just another facet of the same concept.


Regarding CAIR. I think they are the enemy dressed up in the burka of Muslim-American civil rights.

11/28/2006 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

bobal and buddy,

I don't know where I am. (Hell, I don’t know who I am.) I do know Teresita is next door because, when I said, "Hello", interrupting her Bible study, she threw a tin cup against the wall and swore she would never speak to me again. The surly, infidel woman must be beaten; it is a matter of honor.

Just wait until I get my hands on some matches, Teresita. I shall attach them to trained cockroaches and send them your way - lighted, of course. Go ahead, call the guards! It will do you no good. We of the "Borat Martyrs, In the Name of Allah, Blessed Be His Holy Name, and Death to Salman Rushdie Brigade" will never allow the presence of human shields to divert us from our mission. And, don't try to hide it, you know very well the mission. We will not stop until Victoria's Secret (run, as everyone knows, by ex-Stalinist, Jewish progressive, ACLU supporting, Congressional lobbyist, entrepreneurial homosexualists) hand makes a line of pastel, goat hair burkas (stamped with the approval of Andrew Sullivan), with fully integrated explosive pouches for combustible grannies. Laugh at your peril, Ms. Tuna Fish!

That’s Teresita on the left

I sign off, reluctantly, but “They” have announced, “It’s medicine time.”

11/28/2006 01:13:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

allen,

I'm not sure why you are keen on carrying our discussion over to the BC but these posts are made in the context of this thread and Englands move to make beating children by parents illegal. On the one hand some posters seem to have trouble with the English State inserting itself into lives of individuals to which I replied that the US State, to these peoples great happiness (stem cell research, gay marriage ect) does so as well. You then moaned on about freedom does not imply license, as if that had some bearing on this discussion to which I retorted (to paraphrase) that freedom does not mean you have license to beat your wife nor your child.

I guess I should follow your lead and post this at the Belmont club as well? Why not follow your 'brilliant' lead on this matter...

11/28/2006 01:17:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Democrats will protect law-breakers
Malkin:
Ed Morrissey points to this disturbing Washington Times report:

A Mississippi Democrat in line to become chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee has warned the nation's largest uniform supplier it faces criminal charges if it follows a White House proposal to recheck workers with mismatched Social Security numbers and fire those who cannot resolve the discrepancy in 60 days.
Rep. Bennie Thompson said in a letter to Cintas Corp. it could be charged with "illegal activities in violation of state and federal law" if any of its 32,000 employees are terminated because they gave incorrect Social Security numbers to be hired.

"I am deeply troubled by Cintas' recent policy change regarding the Social Security Administration's 'no match' letters," Mr. Thompson said in the Nov. 2 letter. "It is my understanding that hundreds of Cintas' immigrant workers have received these letters. I am extremely concerned about any potentially discriminatory actions targeting this community."
The Democrats: Protecting illegal alien workers, identity thieves, and Social Security scammers across the country in the name of preventing "discrimination
."

There's a winning homeland security platform for 2008!

11/28/2006 01:25:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

You got in my SPACE, Man!!!!!!

NEVER get on my cloud, Dude!!!!

You know we Jews are notorious abusers of our wives and children. I am a thoroughly DANGEROUS man, Man.

The link is for you and C4. Enjoy!

The non-judgmental training of youngsters

11/28/2006 01:29:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Doug, that's discrimininatory and mean-spirited of you. We're all children of the Almighty, and criminals want their story told, too.

11/28/2006 01:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

stem cell research
Ash,
Point to ONE law in the land that restricts research by anyone on stem cell research.
Thanks

(stem cells have rights too, Bud)

11/28/2006 01:37:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

hehehe, ah you got me there doug...though that StemCells got rights too doesn't seem to be too far off the mark for the near future. Won't even be able to waterboard the buggers!

11/28/2006 01:54:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

enscout was upset, but I had to leave for a while.

His retort for Mr Bush stopping short is that there may be stuff goin' on we do not know about.
Well, that may well be, that there are unknowns. It is the Knowns that we were discussing, though.

Instant gratification, if "Instant" is five years then what of "emergence", wow! Who knows what that'll really end up meaning.

As to asking the men that have been to Iraq, I have. My son and his friends, long discussions. They were there at Fallujah II, I reckon those Marines know better than you or I for that matter. But the debriefing I recieved was eye opening, and only made me more secure in my positions, vis a vie Iraq.

11/28/2006 02:04:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Ash, I can't believe you were arguing an issue with so little knowledge of the basic fact of it.

11/28/2006 02:05:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

actually buddy just typing fast and not thinking it all through. Laws against stem cell research is a moot point, neither here nor there, the point is that there are many laws that encroach upon 'freedoms' in the US. Can't snort coke is one example.

11/28/2006 02:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cruiser said, "Regarding CAIR. I think they are the enemy dressed up in the burka of Muslim-American civil rights."

Its only when you put restraints on the civil rights of Muslim-Americans that the burqua analogy comes into play.

11/28/2006 02:35:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Pepsi, though, you can snort.

11/28/2006 02:35:00 PM  
Blogger warhorse said...

"The hostile cells spread within their newly established enclaves and cleared all resistance. "

Anybody else think this sounds like a job for the Air Force? Nice concentrations of bad guys, no friendlies in the tartget zone ... shouldn't take more than a night or two to make the problem go away ... Of course, someone's civil rights would have to get violated in a serious way ...

11/28/2006 02:35:00 PM  
Blogger skipsailing said...

I think C4 misses a critical connection. He seems to state that Islam and communism are anathema to each other and perhaps that true.

but what I think the author if the Daily Standard peice is saying is different. he's stating that the reds would gladly let the Muslims destroy western society. Since their goals are congruent, why not?

The problem is, then what?

11/28/2006 02:36:00 PM  
Blogger possumDieter said...

Ash,

Your progressiveness is no match for mine.

Consider this a throw down.

May Heidegger and Foucault be with you in this hour of competitive discursive nonsense.

11/28/2006 02:39:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Anarchists are anarchists, whatever justifying symbol they act out under.

11/28/2006 02:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Free Love,
Unlimited Piece in Our Time.

Gee, back when we refered to a piece of ass, we weren't talkin anal sex.

11/28/2006 02:53:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

So fall the sands of time, doug

11/28/2006 02:59:00 PM  
Blogger Kinuachdrach said...

Returning to the Topic (well, someon had to do it!):

What would US public opinion be if every news broadcast for the last couple of years began with a list of last night's burnings & bombings in France? What if NYT reporters were embedded with the French equivalent of SWAT, describing how they were getting beaten back from French slums? Film at eleven!

How does a free society deal with an out-of-control media?

11/28/2006 03:01:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

With YouTube and Google video.

Take a trip to France, rent or buy a video camera, Final Cut Pro and away you go.

Mr Yon with a video camara.

The CIA Director shows up to testify to Congress in his Air Force General uniform.

There is a message there.

11/28/2006 03:07:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

K-guy, to an out-of-control press, you respond with scorn and shunning. This really sets 'em back, as you'll have noted, by the guilt expressed by such as AP whenever it is caught doing enemy propaganda.

11/28/2006 03:13:00 PM  
Blogger Tarnsman said...

To paraphase C4, "It's the Joooos!"
Oh yeah, and "It's the Mexicans!" Oh wait, wrong topic. The veiled anti-Semitism of your posts is getting old real fast. Put down your copy of Mein Kampf, step back, and try to see events as they really are, and not as the machinations of some super secret all powerful Jewish cabal that somehow has a death wish and wishes to take down the rest of the world with it. I imagine you sitting at your keyboard, your tinfoil hat a little too tight around the temples. Give it a rest.

11/28/2006 03:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hk vol asked, "Is there a tipping point in France? Or do they let anarchy reign?"

When the ancien regime of the Fifth Republic falls, the First French Sultanate will take its place, turning the Eiffel Tower into the Muslim world's largest minaret.

11/28/2006 03:19:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Unfair, Unbalanced,
...but accurate."

11/28/2006 03:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is my first time posting after years of lurking, so be kind.

Cedarford seems to be operating under the Mahathir Mohamed delusion:

"We [Muslims] are up against a people who think. They [the Jews] survived 2,000 years of pogroms not by hitting back, but by thinking. They invented and successfully promoted Socialism, Communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so they may enjoy equal rights with others. With these they have now gained control of the most powerful countries and they, this tiny community, have become a world power. We cannot fight them through brawn alone. We must use our brains also."

Relax, Cedarford. Before you know it, the Jews will have come up with some other ingenious ideology with which to save their hide. And yours.

Back to lurking.
As you were.

11/28/2006 03:24:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

The Air Force General/CIA Director said, roughly, that, in regards to Iranian aggression against Iraq, he 'had been a skeptic, but was now fully-converted, with the zeal of the newly-converted, by the facts of it'.

"Zeal" he said, wearing his Air Force uniform.

Ladies & gentlemen, place your bets.

11/28/2006 03:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cedarford wrote, "For the rest of us though, we have to recognize that the enemies of America consist of more than just Islamists, and defeating the Islamists means taking on those other enemies and openly discussing them and working to diminish their insidious weakening of our ability to defend ourselves."

I can no longer sit back and allow Islamist infiltration, Islamist indoctrination, Islamist subversion, and the international Islamist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

11/28/2006 03:50:00 PM  
Blogger enscout said...

buddy:
"place your bets"
My money is on GWB's "stay the course" VS the nonsense coming out of the Baker/Hamilton Iraq Study group.

Dubya knows that the Iranians & Syrians can't be trusted. Why have talks with the likes of murderers.

Sounds like the Paris Peace Talks revisited. Where did that get us?

11/28/2006 03:51:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

That's an easy one, enscout.
"Peace with Honor"

11/28/2006 04:01:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Watch for State Dept to set up a situation in Riyahd where W has to shake Abracadabra's hand.

11/28/2006 04:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

So what, drive by?
If the Jooos mess up your precious bodilies, it's no big deal?

11/28/2006 04:20:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

That was General Jack D. Ripper, talking to Group Captain Lionel Mandrake, doug. In the great Kubrick film, "Lolita".

11/28/2006 04:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enscout wrote, "Sounds like the Paris Peace Talks revisited. Where did that get us?"

Thirty-three years later, a Vietnam so capitalist it has become the newest member of the WTO.

11/28/2006 04:28:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

except he said "communists' instead of "islamists". And, tho he was being caricacachurered, ole Ripper was probably right. As was General George C. Scott, who was all for letting the wing go on and end communism, since they were past "fail-safe" anyway.

11/28/2006 04:32:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

And here we are again.
Stewed in our own precious juices.

11/28/2006 04:43:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

sauteed in our own vital liquids

11/28/2006 04:49:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Buddy - Two points, C4. (1) it would not be such an emotional misstep to mischaracterize the behavior of Jewish Reds as a "Jewish" rather than a "Red" trope, if there did not (2) exist in living memory an almost unbelievable result of where such minor wrongs can and have already led.

Pretty correct, except that 30 million killed by the Bolsheviks by the start of WWII cannot be considered "minor wrongs". Nor did people have any real doubt at the time of the instrumental role transnational Jews had in Bolshevikism, the targeting of Christian leaders and institutions for liquidation..

Not just in Russia, but the Jewish commissars of the Internationale, COMINTERN, the roles of Bela Cohen (Hungary), Ben Aronstein, Rosa Luxumberg (Germany), and brigades of Jewish-led volunteers had Spain - the Germans, Italians, Dutch, and Poles are greatly feared the spread of bloody Jewish Bolshevik Revolution further West and fascism is best understood as the opposing force meant to thwart Communist aggression. Until the late 30s, Churchill feared "Jewish Bolshies" subverting or overthrowing the established order in Britain more than he feared the Nazi threat.

While the Nazi democide accounted for 28 million people and would have done in far more if not stopped, it is hard to overlook the 80 million murdered by Jews, Chinese, Russians, and SE Asians and Koreans in the name of Communism. Unless you live in a country where much of the media and film industry is determined to sweep the excesses of the Jews and others doing Communisms bloody butchery from 1917-1977 under the rug.
**********************
hepzeeba - Relax, Cedarford. Before you know it, the Jews will have come up with some other ingenious ideology with which to save their hide. And yours.

Aside from the obvious arrogance of thinking 98% of humanity is reliant on the other 2% to do it's thinking.....the West - particularly America, Israel, parts of Europe are now so paralyzed by progressive international law that they appear to be unable to defend themselves or gain victory over an enemy.

If progressive Jews are the salvation of thinkers you think they are, time is growing short for them to undo the 40 year mess of "enemy/criminal protection" laws, covenents on military ROE, and "human rights" they led the effort to put in place. Think fast! Muslim-enabling and West-weakening has put their future in France and Israel at risk.

It is no accident Omert, a lawyer, was the Head Honcho when the lawyer-monitored IDF went into battle against Hezbollah and showed how weak they, not Hez, now are...

Tarnsman - Rather than direct your ire at me, perhaps your time would be better spent convincing your fellow Jews to stop targeting US troops for human rights violations and stop defending and seeking a broadening "Islamic enemy rights".

11/28/2006 05:08:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

My point stands, though, C4. Whatever Jews were among the Communist leadership, it did "Jews" little good as USSR turned on them soon enough.

Why not mention the non-Jews in the Communist Hall of Infame?

Point is, everybody is born something, everybody is born with a racial/ethnic identity.

But among the millions of Bolsheviks, you're mentioning only one of the racial/ethnic groups culpable for their Red mess.

That's why I ask you, why not curse the behavior of the Bolshies, and leave out all the varied racial/ethnic identities into which they happened to be born, as this tends to say to your readers that you do not understand the meaning of "guilt-by-association", nor the ethnic-cleansing which has often historically followed on that type of emotional organization.

Do you see what I'm trying to say?

11/28/2006 05:41:00 PM  
Blogger Tarnsman said...

C4, I am no Jew. Born and raised
Protestant and consider myself to be Agnostic. Sorry, you label doesn't apply. I will continue to call you a Jew-baiter so long as you continue to attempt to pin the failings of the world on to the Jews. Yes, there are Jews in the Left just as there are Jews elsewhere in society. They make up how much of the American population? 2%. Two percent. Wow, they must be using Jedi mind tricks to control the other 98%.

11/28/2006 05:47:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Stalin was a Georgian atheist. Why no indictments of Georgian atheists? Most serial killers are caucasian Christians. So, their race/religion is prone to serial-killing? Nah, it's ludicrous, C4--you need to lay all that crap aside.

11/28/2006 05:57:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

Boiled in our own bodily fats, we are.

11/28/2006 07:56:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Buddy, saying don't blame the Jews for the victims of Communism is like saying don't blame the Germans for Nazism because clearly other ethnicities like Lithuanians, Romanians, Ukrainians, Austrians, French, and Dutch were all heavily involved.

Lenin recognized Jews and their leadership as indispensible to Bolshevikism's winning the war with the Whites, the formulation and launch of the Red Terror, the creation of the Checka, Yagoda's slave labor scheme, the organization skills and heading the state security for the coercion needed to collectivize and place all industry and agriculture under State control, and the creation of the Gulag system.

I wouldn't mind if people would just admit it, rather than pretend that they weren't so heavily involved in the Communist democide - and from that, partially responsible for the rise of Fascism. I wouldn't mind so much if Jews and defenders would abandon the deceit that Jews were "Stalin's greatest Victims". For all the bloodiest years of the Soviet Butchery, Jews were largely unscathed except those in top leadership that crossed Stalin. It was only in his end days that Stalin came to believe Jews were untrustworthy and no longer true communists...he planned on relocation of Jews away from the Soviets main cities and Elite positions, but died before he did anything.
Before Stalin's rise, Jews were 50% of the senior Soviet, with 3% of the population of the USSR. After Stalin, Jews did not dominate absolutely, but were still extraordinarily prominent in Soviet leadership and in organs of state terror.

I understand what you are trying to say, Buddy, that others are to be blamed - and in fact, books are as careful to point out the other ethnicities in the Soviet butchery as they are to sweep the Jewish role under the rug. My point is raising that is that secular, progressive Jews have been eagerly assaulting Western institutions for a long,long time and that as an influential, powerful group they are capable of tremendous harm.

In the present day, Progressive Networked legal arms and activist groups in America fighting for criminal and enemy rights and attacking institutions like the US military are about 50% Jewish in their leadership and funding. It is impossible to discuss the laws and intellectual work "defanging the West" from defending itself without addressing the major roles of Jewish-led organizations like Open Society, ACLU, Human Rights Watch, Southern Poverty Center - or key intellectuals like Soros, Neier, Glassman, Roth, Cellar, Lord Goldstein, Chomsky, Derrida, and Marcuse in getting us to the paralyzed state we are in today.

Tarnsman simply believes that Jews are above criticism. If not Jewish, as he protests, that simply makes him a boot-licker determined to sweep away past and present harm done by powerful Jewish organizations. By claiming all such criticism must be stifled as bias against a group that he feels wears an immunity amulet from "suffering so by another people actions", Tarnsman licks boots, and in doing so, is complicit in covering up one of the great evils in recent history.

For my money, all culpable parties to democide should be condemned and their "contributions" to murderous ideology and mass murder actions discussed. Germans, Jews, Cambodians - no matter HOW much some people argue for a "pass" and historical amnesia for people that have "have also suffered". The oceans of blood the Chicoms spilled cannot be glossed over by saying that the 40-45 million victims of that democide were Chinese too, so what the Chicoms did matters far less than killing Jews, and the matter can be sanitized out of school books and no stigma attach to the Chicoms now packing the world's import markets.

And we have to be very aware who currently threatens the West. It isn't just "a few misguided people who hijacked the Religion of Peace".

11/28/2006 08:02:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

possumDieter said...
"Ash,

Your progressiveness is no match for mine.

Consider this a throw down.

May Heidegger and Foucault be with you in this hour of competitive discursive nonsense."

oh my, we are upping the stakes, let me wager a Bertrand Russell and Wittgenstein at this stage of the game. Though, let me stay my Wittgenstein to only the end of the Tractatus and his following silence which he led into with:

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

11/28/2006 08:03:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Whoa. C4's gonna get carpel tunnel.

11/28/2006 08:19:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

C4,

References, man, references! If a man is going to call another man a son-of-a-bitch, he should know something of the mother, don't you think?

C4, why did the Polish nobility and for awhile the Russian rely so heavily upon Jewish administrators? Indeed, why did they recruit far and wide for Jews. Literacy and Industry.

At the time of the Soviet revolution and civil wars, the rate of literacy among Russia's masses could not have been more than 10%. So, C4, if you are Comrade Lenin with a vast bureaucracy to build hurriedly, will you recruit from the highly literate Jews or the illiterate peasants?

Because a fellow pushed paperwork for the Communists did not him a Communist make. It wasn't as if he could turn the job down. Lenin and company made deals that couldn't be refused.

By the 1930s, Russia's literacy deficit was starting to come under control. Think about this, C4. As more ethnic Russians became trained to assume managerial roles, Jews were displaced and subsequently persecuted.

To begin your research, may I suggest "European Jewry in the Age of Mercantilism, 1550-1750." I believe it can still be had at Amazon.

11/28/2006 09:35:00 PM  
Blogger redaktør said...

Pfffffffffft..
Only a disgusting vermin and an arab neoNazi would stoop to blaming Jews for Stalin's butchery.

Cedarford, why not blame Concentration Camp Hebs for the murder of fellow Hebs and inmates, because those Jews placed still living Hebs in the ovens of Auschwich on orders of the Camp Commandant?

11/28/2006 10:20:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

redaktør,

My friend, C4 performs a valuable service. He must not be insulted. Rather, he must be carefully cultivated and engaged. Remember, light is the foundation of the universe.

Shalom!

11/28/2006 10:46:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

redaktør,

Pardon me if I seem patronizing; I meant no disrespect to you. Your rage is fully appreciated by me. But, I want to engage C4 whenever possible because he, like the Christian apostle Paul, might offer a great gift, despite himself. And, if not, G-d will judge.

11/29/2006 02:16:00 AM  
Blogger redaktør said...

Allen,

Anti Semitism is an incurable disease. Much like Jewish optimism and childish naivete.

11/29/2006 07:31:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

redaktør,

Touche! ;-D

11/29/2006 07:55:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

It's just envy. After all, you guys are almost as smart as the Chinese--
:-D

11/29/2006 08:11:00 AM  
Blogger Tarnsman said...

Cedarford, let me paraphrase Samuel Johnson: "name calling is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
Bootlicker. Wow. Name calling is also the last refuge of those unable to argue the facts. Seems your intellect "gifts" are found wanting when challenged and you are forced to resort to the tactics of a five year old. "You are a sad little man and you have my pity" -- Buzz Lightyear. I'm quoting a cartoon character because you have become one.

11/29/2006 10:06:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

tarnsman,

Ouch! Owee!! That is going to leave a mark.


redaktør,

You may be right about the terminal nature of Jew-hatred. But, I could not sleep well unless I made a sincere effort to save that one lost sheep. Granted, some of us have our kippas canted.
:-D


buddy,

Don't even get me started on that gneetic rant again. Everytime I throw out a few numbers, Catholic Woman slips another pin into my doll. Gosh, I do miss her wholesome banter; how about you?

11/29/2006 11:53:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

"gnee", Isn't that something out a Monte Python script?

11/29/2006 12:10:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

That would be Monty.

11/29/2006 12:29:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

It's hell to watch a man's spelling break down that badly, right before your eyes.

11/29/2006 09:16:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy,

I was flying along, minding my own business when, out of the blue, the right brain grabbed the stick.

11/30/2006 10:05:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

ah, yse, ti heppans ot em, oot.

11/30/2006 11:02:00 AM  

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