Baghdad Again, Part 2
Pajamas Media has a roundup of reports indicating that Islamists, perhaps of the Shi'ite persuasion, are imposing their codes on sections of Baghdad. Healing Iraq says:
Baghdadis are reporting that radical Islamists have taken control over the Dora, Amiriya and Ghazaliya districts of Baghdad, where they operate in broad daylight. They have near full control of Saidiya, Jihad, Jami’a, Khadhraa’ and Adil. And their area of influence has spread over the last few weeks to Mansour, Yarmouk, Harthiya, and very recently, to Adhamiya.
All of these districts, with the exception of Adhamiya, are more or less mixed or Sunni majority areas. They make up the western part of the capital, or what is known as the Karkh sector (the eastern half of Baghdad is called Rusafa). These areas also witnessed an influx of families displaced by the violence in the Anbar governorate, since many residents of the western part of Baghdad have roots in western areas of the country, such as Fallujah and Ramadi.
Iraq the Model notes:
People who follow the news frequently enough here in Baghdad know that a big security operation is coming and hearing several tough statements from Iraq's PM Maliki makes one anticipate this operation to be coming sooner rather than later and that it's going to deal with both wings of violence in Baghdad; the al-Qaeda terrorism (and allied local Sunni insurgency) and the out-of-control armed Shia militias.
posted by wretchardthecat at 6/05/2006 01:16:00 PM
28 Comments:
So these seem to be Sunni Islamists, from my reading of "Healing Iraq". That they are consolidating in their own neighborhoods?
Or are these Islamists foreigners, trying to fill a void, in the Sunni areas? The description indicates these Islamists have come in with the refugees from Anbar. But hard to tell, exactly.
No mention of out of control Shia Militias, at all.
"Iraq the Model"
" the al-Qaeda terrorism (and allied local Sunni insurgency) and the out-of-control armed Shia militias."
The Shia seem to figure large in the Model's mind. Wonder if he knows who killed his relative, yet.
Or are there just the usual suspects.
Of course I am shocked and dismayed that the Islamists are doing what Islamists do best. I thought there may be a problem when I saw they celebrate 'Holy Days of Obligation" flagellating themselves with bicycle chains. I hate to be culturally insensitive but it is well past time to accept Iraq for what it is and not expect it to be what is never going to happen. If this keeps going the way it appears, Saddam may be in line for a Nobel Peace Prize. Wake me up if GWB buys a beagle and picks him up by the ears. ( I apologize to those under 45, that may miss the meaning of that, but I need a drink>)
He said the US troops
"... " do not respect the citizens, some of whom have been crushed by tanks and others shot. We must speak with them and fix a definition of the obligations of foreign forces" ..."
We're obligated to Iraq and Mr Maliki, you betcha.
Whose son should die to fulfill these US obligations to Mr Maliki?
Who should volunteer, if not Iraqi mothers?
US obligations have been paid, in full, thank you.
Let US watch the ISF in action.
Get to see what two years of US training is really worth.
"..."There is a limit to the acceptable excuses. Yes a mistake may happen but there is an acceptable limit to mistakes," Nuri al-Maliki told Reuters when asked about a U.S. investigation into the deaths of 24 Iraqis in the western town last November.
"We are worried about the increase in 'mistakes'. I am not saying that they are intentional. But it is worrying for us," he said in an interview in his offices in Baghdad. ..."
We ought to let the Iraqis step out on their own, now.
They need to clear those neighborhoods and secure Route Irish at the same time.
I won't hold my breath, waiting for the Shia Militias to disarm, though.
White House spokesman Tony Snow said the Defense Department was investigating the incident and that he had been assured that "when this comes out, all the details will be made available to the public, so we'll have a picture of what happened." ..."
Taking those pictures drove a Marine Lance Corporal to drink, and auto theft, he says.
They must be euphoric in Teheran. Oil at $73 a barrel and the US tied in knots with this diplomatic and strategic folly. And your earlier point Rat about asking more men to die and be maimed to continue this epic mistake.
General Casey said that Baghdad was going to be secured, along with 9 other cities, after the Government to power. He said it a couple of weeks, maybe a month, ago.
The Minister seats are unfilled because the DAWA and SCIRI will not budge on their no baathist pledge, even a little. Also I doubt they want a Sunni of any sort in the Chain of Command, any time soon. The Prime Minister direct suits them fine.
Would depend alot on what Mr Maliki's real Goals are.
It comes down to some basic decisions. Do you believe the Iraqi people want us there and will our presence help them to become a stable democracy? Do you believe it may have been a mistake and it is time to cut our losses? Is GWB, a Kenneth Lay or is he a Warren Buffett?
Finally do you go short or long on this market?
Canoneer,
Man I respect you and admire your tenacity, but it is a scary thing when you ask men to fight and die for something. You better be damn sure the trade is worth it. If you look at Iraq, I have increasing doubts. That is not defeatism. It is not fear. American fighting men should never be compromised by the decisions of anyone other than American elected or appointed leadership. They should never be spent on any cause other than for the security of The US. That is the gold standard for me. When in doubt I ask the hard question. Would I do it or ask my son or grand sons to do it?
I had hoped that the US would evolve into a heavy fisted strike for, garrisoned for security, only to emerge to wreak havoc on those who needed combined forces of armor, air, and artillery. Exposing our troops to police action at this point is both pointless and cruel. We have succeeded in ousting Saddam and creating a self standing government, both malignant and intractable. Mission accomplished. Sayonara Ahkmed.
desert rat said...
"We're obligated to Iraq and Mr Maliki, you betcha.
Whose son should die to fulfill these US obligations to Mr Maliki?
Who should volunteer, if not Iraqi mothers?
US obligations have been paid, in full, thank you."
If only that were the case. Iraqi sovereignty is but a joke and the state, caught between warring factions, barely exists. If Iraq was a sovereign state, then some members of Kilo company, 3rd Battalion, would be facing trial for war crimes in an Iraqi court. Isn't that what any truly sovereign state would demand? We did not send General Pershing after Pancho Villa to have the Bandit King tried in a Mexican court. I'm not saying that an Iraqi court would be a just or desirable venue for determining the truth, only that a US military court martial puts the lie, once more, to the myth of an independent Iraq.
It galls me to say it, but Colin Powell's "pottery barn" rule now sounds as ugly as it was prophetic: we broke it and now it's ours. To walk away from Iraq will appear a victory to Islamists ranging from Zarqawi to Sadr. That said, I don't believe we have neither the old "Fordist" bureaucratic capacity nor the will to commit the resources to stabilize the country. For this I blame Rumsfeld.
Wretchard's analyses a few weeks ago of the "failing" Anbar insurgency were far too optimistic, and to truly tame Anbar, Baghdad, and Basra will require more US troops at a time when the fledgling Iraqi government is castigating them more and more. How did we arrive at this miserable position?
"Bon Air said...
Where is the tipping point? When do these people say enough is enough. When do they get to the point where they refuse to allow these loons to take over their neighborhoods?"
Were is the tipping point in the Congo? What happened to the communal spirit in the neighborhoods of Kinshasa? It takes a long time to find the floor in Hell.
THe other, more prevelant rumor, according to Iraq the Model, is a Saddam Lite General will pick the Defense Minister, or Mr Allawi may.
But then that's what rumors are.
Fantasies and projections.
My son, VDH, Mr Bush, Mr Cheney, Mr Rumsfeld, Ralph Peters, Mr Yon, wretchard, General Casey, Col Happersat, Mr Sistani and Mr Maliki, to name just the ones on the tip of my tongue, have all been instrumental in developing my outlook on the Iraqi theater of Operations.
Which authority is to be denied?
"Cannoneer No. 4 said...
The answers to those questions will depend on who you have been listening to.
Those who think they are defeated, are."
Oh really? Then I'm sure that you'll extend the logic and argue that the reverse is also true, that "Those who think we've won . . . are victorious"?!
Does the Fourth Canoneer claim that the "mission has been accomplished", that the insurgency has been in its "last throes" for the past year, that all the proclaimations of "victory" after Shiite Theocratic parties siezed control of the invidious Iraqi state are correct? If so, then I guess we can go home. Problem solved. Mission accomplished.
reocon
In almost all situations the Military tries it's own.
We never "handed 'em over" in Korea or Panama.
Never.
Rape, murder, made no difference. The natives didn't get 'em.
That is the comment of the Brit officer in this UK Telegraph story that was linked to earlier.
"... One of the main changes to military law will be the withdrawal of a commanding officer's historic powers to dismiss investigation into serious allegations such as murder.
Lord Boyce warned that "tampering" with the military chain of command could damage operational effectiveness.
"If you diminish a commanding officer's authority or start to erode his authority you will have a fracture which is ultimately going to cause failure," he said.
Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup said it was essential that actions taken by soldiers in the heat of battle were judged in context, "not as if they are walking down Watford High Street". ..."
British, not US.
desert rat said...
"reocon
In almost all situations the Military tries it's own.
We never "handed 'em over" in Korea or Panama."
True that. The impelling word is "we", a royal we actually, that denotes our status as hegemon. Our sovereignty extends across the globe, whether the Iraqi people care for it or not. No ICC for us, for we exercise our power in a peculiarly virtuous manner. If only the Iraqi people could be made to understand this, no?
Now you're gettin' it, reocon
Had a Panamanian friend, hated the US, it stood for all that was wrong with the world. I'd laugh and call him a fool.
He was off to Havana, for the first time, artist, poet, street performer that he was he "just knew" it'd be Grand.
Saw him when he came back, reality had set him straight. He did not love US, but he laughed at his old "beliefs". He was not so enthralled with "equality of outcome" once he'd seen it.
Moral being, bad as we may be thought to be, the next step down is a lulu.
Nathan said...
"Reocon,
The transpose of Cannoneer's argument is that "Those who do not believe they have been defeated, are not." I am sure you have heard some form of this before."
Oh yes, but I've also known of those who did not accept defeat but clearly were. They struggled on, raging against a fate that had already been decided. Belief alone will not carry the day, and certain beliefs that for too long defy the obvious are known as delusion. I've had enough relatives in the Seventh Day Adventist Church to be familiar with this phenomenon. I hope we have ceased deluding ourselves with a rhetoric of "last throes", "mission accomplished" and "victory".
"Cannoneer No. 4 said...
reocon,
You never played any team sports when you were younger, did you? "
Baseball. I wish my knees were still young enough for baseball. Well, knees, wrist and shoulders.
That'd be Mr Bush and Mr Cheney.
Mr Bush, he is to long between word and action to leave me less than depressed
Mr Cheney is not to be trusted around firearms. He should not mix bee, drugs and firearms. Evertone knows that. If he has forgotten or thought weapons safety below his station, he was obviously wrong.
That and we just do not know who the Insurgents are, at least in Ramadi, rest assured the Insurgency is on it's last legs though.
That light up ahead, is it the end of the tunnel, oh no, it's the Iranian Cannonball Cascade!
Given the choice between a virtuous execution of power and the vicious execution, I would prefer the latter. I base this belief on the expectation of not having to do either very often if using the vicious version when called upon was the recognized preferred method.
Well, there it is, not all countries and/ or criminals are treated equally.
It'd be bad to be in a Japanese prison for killin' a Japanese lady, I'd bet. Worse than Leavenworth, I'd wager.
24 steps to liberty says it Sunni Islamists causing the ruckus.
Baghdad Connect says
Rumor (or insinuating rumor!) "unidentified Mujahideen".
So more Sunni.
Iraqi Screen
if you tour Baghdad’s neighborhoods, you will find 90% of them are blocked by trees trunks, barrels and big stones and men are guarding them with their private guns and they are always in a state of alert to confront death squads in case they storm their neighborhoods, snatch some people and then their bodies would be found in the trash.
Where date palms grow
Now in the Golden age “Post April 2003” you should see that same street, concrete barriers, so cars would slow down, 99.9% of the shops shut due to terrorist threats, not even barber shops.
On Sunday the whole street was filled with threat notices posted by the “Honorable Resistance” AKA “Zarqawi’s” its main subjects are:
Now it seems the naming of the Enemy is even more confused.
Mindless defeatism is most insidious for a capable nation. It seems to be an underlying principle of present European spinelessness. Conversely, irrational exuberance seems to be the governing principle of Iran and their aspiring nuclear counterparts in NorK. Whereas the Europeans are hamstrung by the inertia of socialist ideology, the evil axis have found enabling in the friends of democratic chaos. The US had a legal basis to remove Saddam and a moral responsibility to leave Iraq whole enough not to be a threat to our allies in Turkey, Jordan and, to a lesser extent, Saudi Arabia. We have fulfilled that commitment as far as we can. We should remain in so much as our further presence is at the behest of an Iraqi government that we condone and not become instruments to further the aims of radical Shiism. The US spent nearly nine years in Bosnia but it would have been nine years too long if they were constantly being picked off by roadside bombs.
Annoy mouse said:
"The US spent nearly nine years in Bosnia but it would have been nine years too long if they were constantly being picked off by roadside bombs."
The problem there is that if you left because of road side bombs, you would be guaranteed roadside bombs no matter where you went. I would not be surprised if the logic behind Hiaditha was that young troopers were developing their own strategy to bring accountability to those that passively supported the IED users. Effective, but brutal by today's enlightened standards.
Here is but one of the images being sent around the world decipting the relationship between the U.S. Military and the Iraqi's.
Concerning getting rid of the death squads (and other bad guys) in the Capitol:
You could surround the entire city, where a mouse could not get out with our troops with enough IA and Police to capture the bad guys as they tried to escape.
Then you could send in the rest of the IA and Iraqi police and for backup 200,000 more American troops (who now are almost afraid to point their weapon at anyone, let alone shoot them).
You then could run this operation (lets call it "Operation kill them or Imprison them") for six months, day and night.
Then you could call it a successful operation.
It wouldn't be.
Half of the bad guys would get away, or join in with the IA or Police and wait for another day.
Meanwhile, in other cities, the same bad guys with a lot of new help would be taking over those cities.
What is that saying?
Wash, rinse...repeat?
Again and again and again...
For just how long?
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
This pieece via the Timesonline, of London.
"... IN SATURDAY’S Times there was a perceptive and important article from Gerard Baker on the American reaction to reports of the massacre at al-Haditha. His conclusion was that “there is a gathering sense that the outrages of al-Haditha and elsewhere are not just simply isolated examples of bad behaviour but the almost inevitable consequence of deploying the US military to a task for which it is ill-equipped and poorly trained — policing and pacifying an alien people”.
Baker backed this with a telling quotation from Foreign Affairs, the specialist magazine of the foreign policy community. The article was published in 2000, before 9/11 had changed American thinking. “The President must remember that the military is a special instrument. It is lethal, and it is meant to be. It is not a civilian police force. And it is most certainly not designed to build a civilian society.” Who was the author? It was Condoleezza Rice, who was foreign policy adviser to George Bush, then a Republican candidate for the presidency. She is now the Secretary of State. ..."
Read the Unless you are afraid your head may explode.
“The President must remember that the military is a special instrument. It is lethal, and it is meant to be. It is not a civilian police force. And it is most certainly not designed to build a civilian society.” Who was the author? It was Condoleezza Rice
"Sato’s friends and family found Reese’s punishment “light.” They had asked for the death penalty.
“I myself am dissatisfied with the sentence,” Sato’s brother, Shuichi Sanada, said during a news conference held after the sentencing. He was the only person to testify other than Reese during the two trial hearings since March and Friday’s sentencing.
“As I have been saying from the beginning, I want (Reese) to pay for the crime with capital punishment,” Sanada said."
---
Agreed:
Japanese taxpayers should not have to pay to keep trash breathing anymore the we should here.
cannoneer
More than half the US Public does not support the War in Iraq, as presently prosecuted.
That's a fact
That fact is transmitted
People see and hear it, everywhere.
Facts embolden the Enemy
You tend to blame the transmitter
I tend to blame the facts.
My Japan comment above references canoneer's apparent conflation of War Zone Military Justice with Murderous Scumbag behavior in Japan, which is most assuredly NOT a warzone!
(Nor are Japanese women a threat or target for frustration to real men.)
Kitty Hawk sailor gets life term for killing Japanese woman
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