Friday, April 21, 2006

War, media and politics

One of today's big news items is the dismissal of a person at Central Intelligence for leaking classified material to Washington Post Pulitzer Prize winner Dana Priest. Pajamas Media has a really big blog roundup. Some of the choice items.

Captain’s Quarters: Plugging the Leak says:

The Department of Justice needs to prosecute these leakers to the full extent of the law. We already have the precedent of a two-year special prosecutor who spent millions of dollars investigating a leak of minimal import that resulted from what looks like a deliberate misinformation campaign quarterbacked by the CIA’s non-proliferation desk. Those within the agency that attempt to leak classified information to the press to serve their own political ends deserve a long vacation at Club Fed as a lesson to others who might consider trying their own rogue operations later.

In From the Cold comments:

My reaction to this news can be summed up in a single phrase: it’s about time. As this blog has noted (on several occasions), there have been more than 600 investigtions into unauthorized leaks since the mid-1990s. Until now, all of those inquires had something in common—none had resulted in the dismissal of offending employees, or criminal prosecution. Not surprisingly, leakers became emboldened, with new disclosures appearing in the drive-by media on almost a weekly basis.

And the oddest reaction of all was from AJ Strata.

Strata-sphere

Could there be a connection between the CIA firing and and the news that a key Democrat Hill Representative from West VA resigning his poston the House Ethics Committee? Coincidence? Seems like it. Except for the fact one name keeps propping up in the NSA leak investigation: one Senator Rockefeller from West VA. Probably just coincidence…

I had to go to Don Surber to find out about the Mollohan thing. Apparently "Congressman Alan Mollohan of northern West Virginia has stepped down this afternoon from his position as the No. 1 Democrat on the House ethics committee." That just goes to show how intertwined the subjects of war, politics and the media have become. It's almost as if they were three sides of the same coin, if you know what I mean.

Update

Big Lizard: Story on the leaker leaked to the press -- That's how ingrained the practice is. You have to leak about the leak. Leaking over the years has become as American as apple pie and illegal immigration. There are whole industries built around it. Come to think of it, apple pie is probable the most dispensable of the three. More here from Dr. Sanity.

AJ Strata is quoting Reuters as saying:

More details are coming out. Now the news is claiming the CIA officer in question was one Mary McCarthy from the CIA’s Inspector General’s office - the supposed watchdog for illegal activities inside the agency.

The interesting thing is the possible perception that leaking wasn't "illegal" at all. It was simply the call of a "higher duty". It had been going on so long (see In From the Cold) that secrecy was more honored in the breach than the observance.

The National Review is alleging that the consequences of McCarthy's leaks were bad, not just for the US, but for any European ally that was foolish enough to get caught up in the toils.

In Europe, the reaction [to the Post story] was immediate and intense. The EU said it would launch a probe of both Poland, which is an EU member, and Romania, which hopes to become one. Both countries might be punished if the story were true, EU officials said. Romania denied the whole thing, sort of; in a statement that perhaps sounded more definitive than it was, Romania's premier said, "I repeat: We do not have CIA bases in Romania." In Poland, the new government -- it had been in office for just a few weeks and had played no role in whatever had happened before -- also issued a denial.

But, at least in Poland, the story caused enormous anger and unhappiness behind the scenes. In an interview with National Review, one source with knowledge of the Polish government's dilemma would not address the facts of the story, but called the damage "horrific." The source cited two reasons. First, the Polish government believes that it is now, as a result of the Post story, on al-Qaeda's hit list, setting off fears that Warsaw or Krakow could follow Madrid and London as European terrorist targets. And second, the leak shook the pro-American Polish government's faith in the United States. Poland has been a loyal ally of the U.S., sending troops to Iraq and keeping them there when others withdrew. That decision has been costly not only in lives -- 17 Poles have died in Iraq -- but also in terms of Poland's relations with largely anti-U.S. European governments. And now Poland worries about whether it can trust its most powerful ally. "The next time we are asked to do an operation in common, we will always think twice about your intelligence community's ability to keep a secret," the source said.

Here's the problem as I see it. The leaky and politicized intelligence system has made it difficult to judge the truth value of any proposition. Did the Plame affair damage national security? Did Ms. McCarthy's actions damage national security? Is there someone lying dead in a gutter because somebody talked? The answer to those questions about the intelligence agencies is going to be answered by the intelligence agencies themselves. And so we come full circle to the modern version of the Cretan Paradox: which asserts that when a Cretan says 'all Cretans are liars' all logical roads lead to a contradiction. How then to know the truth about the lies? When intelligence agencies -- and I use that word broadly to encompass the press, which is the civilian intelligence system -- are politicized, then even our knowledge about our knowledge becomes uncertain. We are in a Wilderness of Mirrors indeed. Substitute the term "political faction" for "KGB" in the paragraph below.

Angleton extrapolated from this his theory of a "wilderness of mirrors" (the term is thought to be a reference to T. S. Eliot's "Gerontion"), which entailed that the KGB was capable of manipulating the CIA to believe what they wanted through channels that the CIA was unable to identify and defend against.

More ...

Dean Esmay has a little bit more on Mary McCarthy.

Buried deep--very deep--in the New York Times' story is the fact that she was a contributor to the John Kerry for President campaign in 2004. What they don't mention is that she was an even bigger donor to the Democratic Party, and her husband was likewise a significant donor to both. They also, no surprise, were friendly with Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame.

Although I'm not surprised, this particular should irrelevant to the violation itself. In principle it should not matter if the suspect was a Republican caught giving away secrets to bring down a Democratic administration or vice-versa. But in Washington politics, like the gravitational field of a massive Black Hole, distorts everything. In regions sufficiently close to the political event horizon truth and facts simply cease to exist.

128 Comments:

Blogger Doug said...

A plug nickel.
...and a Pulitzer for Priest.
She will NOT be punished imo.
Columbia Journalism Review sees no evil.
Suicide Nation.

4/21/2006 07:03:00 PM  
Blogger fred said...

It's about time they caught this guy. This leak about the rendition program is of a very, very serious nature. First of all, it puts the lives of allies and our own people into the hazard. Second, it has damaged our credibility with our counterparts' governments and intelligence services and they have stated as such. Thirdly, this is about as blatant a breach of law and trust as we have seen in recent years.

I had so hoped that this leaker would be caught. I would imagine that it involved a very thorough search and investigation of a rather limited pool of people, because the reports last year were that very few people were cleared to have access to this knowledge.

Does the law about divulging truly classified information also obtain with respect to the journalists and the newspaper involved? If it does, then why not pursue that avenue as well? I would dearly like to see those folks sweat, do the perp walk, and face an embarassing trail.

4/21/2006 07:03:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

In the previous thread, Tom Grey linked his site which has an excellent post with good Michael Rubin links on the State Department/Bremmer FAILURE to give local councils budgetary authority to address their constituent's concerns, back when it was a clear path to progress.
...better to act like Bremmer was a compassionate Saddam.
(and take a long term hit for some short term reasons.)
Iraq will become a bloodbath
May 4, 2004
Abolish State!

4/21/2006 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Fred,
Welcome!
Jay Rosen assures us Priest will go free:
The way the outside world looks at it is the
GOVERNMENT TRYING TO SILENCE THE PRESS.
(Always for personal gain, of course, like Bubba and his choir)

4/21/2006 07:17:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Fred,
A bunch of lawyers comment on the subject, there, citing some of the laws.
Ballard agrees w/me on Priest tho:
"There is neither law against nor penalty for sedition. The journos know it and the pols know it.

We must wait to see what reward the public grants to those who flirt with treason
"

4/21/2006 07:23:00 PM  
Blogger fred said...

Doug,

Been recovering from a right total hip replacement on March 30th. I'm 3 weeks post op and don't get to drive until 6 weeks post op. I go back to work at the end of May. I pass the time reading, movies, the Red Sox, and reading and posting on a couple of sites. Driving the wife nuts when she gets home from work. I start physical therapy next week.

I do not see how this is a cut and dried "freedom of information and the press" scenario. I just read an excerpt of the applicable law on another site and the statute pretty clearly includes all parties to the leak of classified information. A large portion of the populace may see it otherwise, but their stupidity and corruption do not obviate the law. Plus, it is a very long stretch to assign credibility to a defense that the reporter did not know this was classified information.

4/21/2006 07:27:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

The Congressman Mollohan resignation from the ethics committee reportedly was as result of a watchdog group pointing out that he had arranged to funnel some millions of Federal dollars into grants to some groups which then made substantial contributions to him. The fact that he went so quietly speaks for itself. They really should press for a resignation for the House, not just the committee.

So, with Mollohan and the CIA leaker we have two instances of people doing the kind of thing that Libbey and Delay were accused of doing - but did not, since in their case it was not against the law anyway.

We seem to have entered the era of the ravenous prosecutor - Ronnie Earl in Texas, Fitzgerald in DC and that guy after the Duke Univ kids - determined to bring noncrimminals to justice for their own glory.

Maybe it is the Saddam trial - these guys are watching it and getting jealous - and like 6 year olds banging away with their cap pistols after an afternoon of Roy Rogers, charge forth to imitate their hero - and end up shooting blanks at the paper boy.

4/21/2006 07:31:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The Law, fred?

Go tell it on the Border.

To expect the Federal Government to enforce the Law,

those painkillers must be workin'...
real good

Good luck on rehab

4/21/2006 07:35:00 PM  
Blogger stackja1945 said...

To reveal secrets is treason. Death to traitors.

4/21/2006 07:45:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Duke Cunningham goes down on bribery, now this Democrat, Alan Mollohan, looks to be dirty, as well.

Ahhh swell.

4/21/2006 07:46:00 PM  
Blogger Anglo-Canadian said...

"Leaking over the years has become as American as apple pie and illegal immigration."

Indeed! Like how the media has become the fourth branch of government. You gotta love that "living tree" consitution.

4/21/2006 07:50:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

By the way, in the area of connected/unrelated news, consider these items:

1. Based on the 7 generals who attacked the SecDef as well as many other Leftist critics, we are in a war that we are losing badly, the cemeteries and hospitals filling up with our ever-mounting casualties.

2. Meanwhile, the just-released statistics show that the overall U.S. death rate DROPPED BY 2 PERCENT last year.

4/21/2006 07:50:00 PM  
Blogger fred said...

Thanks, Rat. I know I'm being an idealist here, but there are times when the "realists" do far more harm. No argument from me about how the law and immigration intersect. Just because I live in the Northeast is no reason to think that folks up here do not appreciate what is happening in Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico, etc.

This McCarthy gal sounds like the kind of person who thinks she is above the law and knows what's best for the rest of us. She's forgotten her oath and her contract. Most of all, she ought to be condemned for any and all lives, overseas and here, that may have been put into hazard for her narcissism. I suspect a heavy dose of political alliances are involved also.

Those shadows of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton keep getting longer and longer.

4/21/2006 07:52:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

czechs and slovaks are not Formerly Ottoman Muslim Arabs. the fact that there was a kind of superhistorical iron curtain between them and us seems underappreciated to me. czechs and slovaks did not have the balkan experience because the precondition is Ottoman suzereignty. none of us had anything like an accurate picture of what this society is actually like; Petreaus relies on goddamn TE Lawrence. and even our major media and academic products reflect obvious ignorance or import their own vanguard ideologies. I agree Bremer made a lot of cultural errors - he was not charismatic enough for these people. He should have been much quicker to flatter them, and I agree the Pentagon's plan was probably the better one. But I have the feeling that whatever might erupt we'd just surround and prevent other countries from settling scores. I agree things are bad, but they're bad in that part of the world. Look at the place. You can't underestimate the natives' capacity to tolerate absurd conditions. But I admit optimism is getting to be more and more an act of will.

4/21/2006 08:13:00 PM  
Blogger Airedale said...

I wonder if she was put in that slot to protect other Democratic Party leakers.

4/21/2006 08:21:00 PM  
Blogger Chester said...

If the spooks have been leaking all this stuff to the Washington Post and the New York Times, how much stuff are they "leaking" to the Chinese, Russians, Iranians, or Saudis?

String them all up.

If I were a Chinese agent in the US, I'd pose as a New York Times reporter and wander around places where the spooks eat lunch in Bethesda.

4/21/2006 08:23:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

No matter who is in the Executive, even the bumbling Bush, we cannot have rogue operations at NSA, CIA, FBI out to sabotage the elected Government with leaks - especially leaks that break the law and harm national security.

This McCarthy woman should be prosecuted with vigor. She not only betrayed a key secret, she undermined the cooperative alliance of several Eastern Euro nations with the USA and caused them harsh negative publicity and problems within the EU.

And the ones that fed Rosen and Lichtbau top NSA secrets are worse.

Full prosecution.

And Ed Morrissey of Captain's Quarters is right - there is a nest of anti-American vipers at the CIA's Counterproliferation Desk, and Porter Goss needs to houseclean their disloyal asses out, too.

4/21/2006 08:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

fred,
Get well soon!
"A large portion of the populace may see it otherwise, but their stupidity and corruption do not obviate the law. "
---
Sometimes, it seems, in these timid but very correct times it does.
Hard to remember a legal price being paid by the press in some time.
The GOP Senators seem to care about little but their acceptability in the media, and less about the law and that "living tree" Constitution, as the Anglo/Canuckistanian put it so well.

4/21/2006 09:32:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Duke Cunningham goes down on bribery, now this Democrat, Alan Mollohan, looks to be dirty, as well."
---
But we're all so ACCUSTOMED to Repubs getting thrown beneath the bus, while the Dems get the serious Wrist-Slapping, aren't we?

I've detested the "New Tone" idea since day one.
Should have called it the bend over and grab approach to political hardballs.

4/21/2006 09:35:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

Planning for a Self-Inflicted Wound: US Policy to Reshape a Post-Saddam Iraq

Revision Three: December 31, 2002


www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/iraq_wound.pdf

4/21/2006 11:57:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

One of Cordesman's points is really debateable. He says it was a mistake to disband Saddam's old army.

"The Revolutionary Guards, the secret police, and other Saddam loyalists are contemptible, but the idea we disband the entire army and security forces and start over with training and ground up new groups is impractical and dangerous."

You can make the case that insisting on de-Baathization was the one good thing Bremer did. There could never have been a new Iraq if it were simply the old regime warmed over. What would be the point of invading Iraq if in the end it was handed over to the same people? That would be like having a revolution to keep the status quo. Given that you were going to topple the regime, then topple the regime.

The real problem was combining the policy of de-Baathization with the public perception that things would be easy. That was the incompatbility. The idea that avoiding de-Baathization was a good move is a debatable one upon which the jury is still out.

4/22/2006 01:17:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

American Strategic, Tactical, and Other Mistakes in Iraq: A Litany of Errors

April 19, 2006

www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/060419_iraqlitany.pdf

4/22/2006 01:17:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

What Went Wrong in the Iraq War: Revisions in Need of Revising

December 2005

www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/display.cfm?PubID=637

4/22/2006 01:33:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

The center of gravity in the Counter-Jihad is the will of the American people. The enemy is running psychological operations against America, aided and abetted by the Main Stream Media, the anti-war movement and elements within the CIA.

4/22/2006 01:54:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"It was not until October 2005 that the US resolved jurisdictional squabbles between State and Defense over who should control the advisory effort for the Ministry of Interior and its forces."

4/22/2006 01:54:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Comic Relief:
BUSTED AT THE CIA: Senior director for intelligence programs under Clinton [appointed by Sandy Berger], Kerry supporter...
'Failed polygraph, admitted giving reporter information'...
- ht,Canoneer

4/22/2006 02:25:00 AM  
Blogger putnam said...

YABLT: Yet Another Bush Litmus Test. Lets see if the Bush administration is willing to spend some political capital pushing this. There is some hope since at a minimum the dismissal has occured. OTOH we can expect McCarthy to sing like a bird, or like Richard Clarke anyway.

4/22/2006 02:39:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

What would you say to the proposition that America's breaking point has been progressively declining since 1945? Looking back from the vantage of 2006, maybe the question is not why America capitulated to North Vietnam but how that generation of US politicians managed to hold out so long. Daniel Ellsberg leaked the Pentagon Papers in 1971, after six years of a conflict in which generated an average of 526 combat deaths per month for 90 months. The All-Volunteer Army and all the hi-tech weapons were in part intended to restore the freedom of initiative; to delay the onset of the breaking point at which the politicians would run, thereby making the military option available again. But for all of that, it can be argued that in the light of current experience the political breaking point actually fell, relative to Vietnam.

Osama Bin Laden's basic bet was that America's political breaking point was far too low for it to mount an effective resistance to the Jihad. Even after 9/11, even against an enemy who unlike the NVA can strike at the homeland, there are already the Dana Priests and the Mary McCarthys. So soon. So soon.

4/22/2006 04:08:00 AM  
Blogger orlandoslug said...

Leisure time...
...Al Queada recognizes the softness that has accompanied the accumulation of wealth in the west...
recognizing that many that came of age since WW II have not faced the sort of life trials of previous generations; but, rather spent formulative years passing a joint and pondering "you got a point...", followed by many of the ruling elite coming from the up and comers from the eighties, who enjoyed snorting and staying up all night chatting about the problems of the day, because they could...
...it is understandible that they, who vastly know more about us than we know about them, have correctly assessed the pulse of not necessarily the US working man; but, rather the ruling elite...

Regarding the leakers, let's not forget the grid-lock these same elites have knotted us up in...immediately following any prosecution would be an investigation of the motives of "Big Brother"...the most that can reasonably be expected is for a few to quietly lose their jobs.

Trish,
Thanks for the links; good reading...
helps me to realize how valuable good analysis is, and how it is not something to simply throw warm bodies at...
...but...the Cordesman piece shows how tough a task managing a war these days is (what an understatement!!); upon examination, imagine all the many hats that the lead dog would need to wear in the prosecution of such an ideal war...
...it is no wonder that SecDef dreams of a smaller, more elite force to prosecute a war in such a war...it would only be possible by prosecuting the war by putting together a hand-picked corporation with a single minded focus to pursue that particular business plan, night and day, free from outside constraints...

...now couple that task with the do nothings in Washington, and it is understandable why this war has had to be prosecuted almost entirely on Bush and his advisor's own impetus (sp?)...

...Al Queda, the mullahs, and everyone else that truly longs to cripple the US, and our western culture have long recognized this and have played the fat cat elites in this country like banjos, understanding that, like all advancing armies, Bush would over-extend himself and eventually his efforts would be cut off...

...thus the lack of attacks on American soil; they realize that the only way the elites would change their stripes would be if they actually felt their little world was somehow threatened...
(they also realize that the american attention span is shorter than the time between a New York street light turning green and the taxi behind you honking!)

BTW: Cordesman's analysis is good; however, he leaves to the recipient to decipher how to implement it...no way they could intellectually or practically clean up the Iraqi army/police!!

4/22/2006 05:02:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

Chester said:
"If I were a Chinese agent in the US, I'd pose as a New York Times reporter and wander around places where the spooks eat lunch in Bethesda."

If you were a Chineses agent, you wouldn't have to pose as anything. Most likely you would have been a NYT reporter already for years. It is suspected that the Chinese have in the US, spies numbering in the tens of thousands.

4/22/2006 05:03:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Post Executive Editor Leonard Downie Jr. said people who provide citizens the information they need to hold their government accountable should not
"come to harm for that."

"The reporting that Dana did was very important accountability reporting about how the CIA and the rest of the U.S. government have been conducting the war on terror,
"
Downie said.

"Whether or not the actions of the CIA or other agencies have interfered with anyone's civil liberties is important information for Americans to know and is an important part of our jobs."

In an effort to stem leaks, the Bush administration launched several initiatives earlier this year targeting journalists and national security employees.

They include FBI probes, extensive polygraphing inside the CIA and a warning from the Justice Department that reporters could be prosecuted under espionage laws.

The effort has been widely seen among members of the media, and some legal experts, as the most extensive and overt campaign against leaks in a generation, and has worsened the already-tense relationship between mainstream news organizations and the White House."

4/22/2006 05:59:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hijabs for liberal Fems!
""O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them
(when they go out or are among men).
That is better in order that they may be known
(to be Muslims)
and not annoyed..."
"
---
Hijabs-R-Us
www.hijabs-r-us.com
Free Shipping in the US Amira hijabs start at just $7.99!

4/22/2006 06:08:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hijab HOW TO's

4/22/2006 06:12:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

She's been at CIA since 1984, was a "special assistant to Clinton", and a "holdover for a few months until replaced by the new admin [GWB] with its own people", according to Fox just now.

Fox running video--she looks exactly like that KGB lady--the one with the shoe-knife--who nearly did in James Bond in "From Russia With Love". Life imitates Art, eh.

4/22/2006 06:12:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Doug, Leonard Downie Jr sounds like that AP guy "terrorists want their story told, too". (*spit*)

4/22/2006 06:16:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

He's that guy in and out of prison for Drugs, right?
Great Act!

4/22/2006 06:19:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Too bad it's real.

4/22/2006 06:20:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"McCarthy began her career in government as an analyst at the CIA in 1984, public documents show. She served as special assistant to the president and senior director for intelligence programs at the White House during the Clinton administration and the first few months of the Bush administration.
She later returned to the CIA.
Attempts to reach her last night were unsuccessful.
"
---
CIA has become our enemies best intelligence and subversive activities organization.

4/22/2006 06:23:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

"... Back to Alexandria, where churches have been for some weeks under escalating vandal and arson attacks from self-declared “pious” Muslims. The stabbings in the churches last Friday (which was the one before Palm Sunday, in this year’s Coptic calendar) were the culmination of what seemed to the Copts like an orchestrated campaign. They became more incensed when a man arrested for the killings -- a known local Islamist -- was described by the police as “a madman acting alone”; and more still when the funeral procession for one of the victims was attacked by a Muslim mob at the moment the crucifix was raised -- with the usual tardy police intervention. The communal rioting proceeded from there.

Egypt was once a pioneer of secular, Western constitutional government in the Arab world, but like every other Muslim jurisdiction of which I am aware, the trend now is towards the restoration of Shariah. The current Egyptian constitution declares the absolute priority of Islam, and while to my certain knowledge a great effort is made from the minbars (pulpits) of many mosques, and sometimes by the government, to inculcate gracious behaviour towards the Christian minority, the opposite is also preached.

Alexandria has anyway always been a likely flashpoint. It contains a much higher proportion of Christians than other Egyptian cities, including Cairo; and they play a prominent role in its business and civic life. But the city is also a major centre of “Islamism”, and fanatic slogans now decorate its walls. The last of the once-large Jewish, Greek, and other long-settled “foreign” communities were driven out two generations ago, following Nasser’s nationalization of the Suez Canal. The Copts remember. ..."

Alexandria We've discussed these folk before. The situation does not improve, for them, either.

4/22/2006 06:27:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"Wilderness of Mirrors" in Hell.

4/22/2006 06:27:00 AM  
Blogger ledger said...

I agree with Sam, RWE, Stackja1945, Chester, Cannoneer No. 4, and others, that this CIA leaker should be punished to the full extend of the law (not just "let go" to write a book).

If CIA agent M*ary McC*rthy did indeed disclose operational information and endanger agents in the field (not to mention civilians) said agent should be criminally prosecuted to the full extend of the law. No More Leaks!

Having CIA agents disclose information to a major newspaper which is read by millions (including our enemies) is the antithesis of a covert agent.

This agent was sworn to secrecy but decided to spill his/her guts to the press for personal (and or partisan) gain. This is mutiny at the highest level.

I would go even further and prosecute any government employee involved in this mutiny and scansion any American "reporter" involved with this case.

The CIA is based on secrecy and broadcasting the internment location of enemy terrorists is a grotesque abuse of said CIA position.

I can see little difference between this action and Outright Treason. These leaks must stop.

This 'leaker' must be punished and further leakers like wise punished.

4/22/2006 06:30:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Post with the Most
Leaks.
(or is it a tie with the Times?)

4/22/2006 06:30:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

ledger:
They also DESTROYED precious trust with other allies, and damaged our best friends in those countries in the midst of the hostile EU.

4/22/2006 06:33:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Rat, Alexandria sounds like the early days of the destruction of Beirut (formerly known as the "Paris of the Orient"--with Paris probably soon to be known as the "Beirut of Europe").

4/22/2006 06:33:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Wretchard said,

"...Osama Bin Laden's basic bet was that America's political breaking point was far too low for it to mount an effective resistance to the Jihad. Even after 9/11, even against an enemy who unlike the NVA can strike at the homeland, there are already the Dana Priests and the Mary McCarthys. So soon. So soon."

Jimmy Carter, giving amnesty to Viet Nam draft dodgers, cowards and deserters, all who violated federal law, started this cycle. It gave the left the beginning of a legend and standard that blessed them with a higher authority to decide right from wrong. Hollywood and the press abetted it. In real time, that time, it made the skunks virtuous and the virtuous, those that served with honor, soiled. It has spread to the common culture, which itself has morphed into the vulgar culture. Look at a recent American Express commercial talking about "a generation as unique as this". Yea, it was all about them.

We had this argument over Pollard. It is time to enforce the laws in the intelligence agencies. Convict them and de-Carterize this infected wound. Start by using some simple English and call them what they are, traitors.

4/22/2006 06:35:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Airedale
"I wonder if she was put in that slot to protect other Democratic Party leakers. "
---
Reminds us of the sickness, sadness, and depravity of Bergler running free after stuffing his undies and socks with unmentionables.
The Unmentionable has become the Norm.
...before the storm.

4/22/2006 06:42:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

OT, except apropos evil and 2164th's Vulgar Cuture.
A Lookback at Lolita

And satire, I am sure, considering his ability and the quality of what he has written, was Mr. Nabokov's intention. Of course I may be wrong. He may simply be an immensely gifted writer with a perverted and salacious mind.
But if the latter is true, it does not change the situation much. Lolita, in the context of the reception it has been given, remains nevertheless a savage indictment of an age that can see itself epitomized in such horror and run to fawn upon the horror as beauty, delicacy, understanding.
But I hope that this is not so, that Mr. Nabokov knew what he was doing.
It is so much more exhilarating to the spirit if the evil that human beings have created is castigated by the conscious vigor of a human being, not by the mere accident of the mirror, the momentary unpurposeful reflection of evil back upon evil.
---
To think that Roy Rogers and Dale Evans made 33 movies with nary a bit of salaciousness or vulgarity a mere 2 decades before.
NOT what RR had in mind when he said:
"Progress is our most important product."

4/22/2006 06:49:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I've seen that ad, 2164--I too read it the same way, as a clue to a great shame as yet unacknowledged, indeed, still "played" as some sort of actual achievement.

"You conquered the need for character!" so use American Express.

Carter. Kerry.

4/22/2006 06:50:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"It is so much more exhilarating to the spirit if the evil that human beings have created is castigated by the conscious vigor of a human being,
not by the mere accident of the mirror, the momentary unpurposeful reflection of evil back upon evil."

4/22/2006 06:52:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

I know that many here read Mr Roggio's work.
He has made an announcement at his Site which may be of interest to others, here.

" ...
The Counterterrorism Blog is being redesigned and will go live on Midnight Wednesday April 19, and new address is: Bill Roggio is now @ Counter terrorism blog

We have created the Counterterrorism Foundation, which will support our continuing efforts at the Counterterrorism Blog to provide original reporting and increase public awareness of the daily happenings in the Global War on Terror. The Counterterrorism Foundation will also support future embeds with our troops in the field in the major conflict areas of the war. I have decided to devote my full time efforts to the Counterterrorism Foundation, and will depend on your support. Contributions to the Counterterrorism Foundation will be tax deductible. We'll provide more information on the Counterterrorism Foundation in the near future.

With that said, I will be embedding in Afghanistan some time in mid-May (date and unit to be determined). The war and Coalition reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan is not being covered sufficiently, and in fact the soldiers and Marines fighting there call it “The Forgotten War”. ... "

The Taliban has gained control of large swaths of Pakistan. Providing base camps for aQ planning and training.

Dr Z still roams the mountains.
War or retreat.

4/22/2006 06:53:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Carterism leads inexorably to the question: what's the use of Freedom if all it does is cover ya with great steaming mounds of manure?

4/22/2006 06:54:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Freedom's Just Another Word..."

4/22/2006 06:59:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Mike Brown, ex FEMA Chief, could have told Mr Bush the difference between American Quarter horses and the Arabian breed.

The Quarter horse, bred for short bursts of speed, quick out of the gate, a steady platform to throw a rope from, rock solid when it stops with a calf on the end of the rope. About a 15 second event.

The Arabian is lightly built, no speed demon, but was originally bred as a War Horse for light cavalry. The breed shows exceptional endurance and is consistantly victorious in all the 50 or 100 mile races held in North America. The winner of a 100 miler is at it for 10 to 12 hours.

The nature of the animals reflect the nature of the men and places that bred them

4/22/2006 07:02:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Be careful Doug,

Looking up Lolita on the Internet may trigger something with the thought police. I can picture the story: Local man arrested. Hard drive seized. Files regarding under age sex.

Not only do we have to listen to their lies. We have to stomach their hypocrisy.

4/22/2006 07:03:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Yeah, and it was an Arabian and an Oak Tree that almost took my head off!

4/22/2006 07:05:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Didn't pay this Anglo no mind.

4/22/2006 07:06:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

as well as local meanings of "strong" and "weak".

4/22/2006 07:06:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

7:03 AM,
Yes, they practice a very pure and correct creed.
None Dare Call it Religion.

4/22/2006 07:08:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

We're very patriotic in the sprints.

4/22/2006 07:09:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

The last horse I rode was a quarter horse.His name was Jack. Jack taught me a lesson and proved Bin Laden wrong. Given a choice between a strong horse and a weak horse, I'm going weak baby.

4/22/2006 07:11:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

WWII wasn't a sprint--and by god neither was VietNam. The VN sprint was all in the way it ended.

4/22/2006 07:12:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Bruce lee or Mohammed Ali.

US afficiandos believe Ali, with size and power, wins.

Others in the World believe Lee with agility, lightning speed and great endurance wins, in the end.
Ali never lands a major punch, while Lee breaks Ali's knee.

4/22/2006 07:13:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ali turns out to be a Muslim spook in the employ of the CIA.

4/22/2006 07:15:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

You stated three things there Doug, two obviously true. The third pure conjecture

4/22/2006 07:18:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

:-)

4/22/2006 07:19:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Trish,

See my latest. I'm beginning to wonder about CSIS.

4/22/2006 07:19:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Ali is still alive. Lee ain't.

4/22/2006 07:22:00 AM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Time to refresh the page guys>Wretchard threw some red meat on the table.

4/22/2006 07:26:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

But end, buddy, it did.

What cursed 'Nam was the lack of Victory. As long as the North existed, it was a threat to the South.
The Goal was never to defeat the North, but defend the South.
To maintain the Status Que.

It was an unworthy Goal and one destined to fail. Defense does not win. Not in a Game without time limits.
Not against Communists or Mohammedans.
If a person believes Communism is dead, they are misinformed.
Belittle Fidel, but his "Last March" has begun.

Havana, Caracus, La Paz, and southern Columbia are firmly established on the parade ground.
Electoral victories may add Managua, and Mexico City to his column.
Fidel and his brother have the vision and are about out of time. Hugo's got the money and the Iranians, they have lit the fuse.

4/22/2006 07:29:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Ali is in a sad way, buddy.
Everyone dies.
Some go out on top
Some have only memories of greatness

Longevity is not everything,

ask Achillies

4/22/2006 07:32:00 AM  
Blogger orlandoslug said...

desert rat,
congrats on the move!
you're doing what we need more of!
we need people over there for a number of reasons, not the least of which is to know what's going on...
...additionally, we need to build rapport in that neck of the woods...
...I wish more US humanitarian missions could take place, even if it involved embedding overtly military men for security reasons...

4/22/2006 07:36:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

Cordesman is a fucking moron. He should retire. He's been saying the same crap this ENTIRE TIME.

4/22/2006 07:39:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Can't ask Achilles--he's dead.

4/22/2006 07:45:00 AM  
Blogger tom_d_perkins said...

I can't imagine why anyone thinks Mollohan has much of anything to do with either the leaks or Rockefeller. They have in common the state their districts are laid in and their party, but they come from very different social strata and are in diferent houses of Congress.

Mollohan is solely in trouble because he lined his and his relatives pockets with federal money, something making him essentially kryptonite to Rockefeller--who hasn't had to worry about money or its increase in my lifetime anyway.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp

4/22/2006 07:54:00 AM  
Blogger Smacko said...

Trish,

The articles your posting are from CSIS. Did you not read that the new CIA Leaker-in-chief comes from CSIS.

As does Sandy (no thats not top secret documents in my pants, I'm just happy to see you) Berger.

And Gen (Of course I did not help organize the 'Generals Revolt', I just called them all this weekend to talk about a BBQ - at Kerry's compound) Zinni.

Not much credibility there, IMHO

4/22/2006 07:54:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

orlando

It is NOT ME that's moving

It is Mr Bill Roggio
a more responsible reporter, I'm sure, than I'd be.

4/22/2006 08:00:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

"Grossly exaggerated the level of popular support for liberation"?

Cordesman is anti-neocon tool, like Cedarford the Confused. We didn't overestimate the UBIQUITY of popular support but its DURATION. Too bad they all hate eachother, especially the women, whose viciousness is hilarious to me.

4/22/2006 08:02:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

buddy,
Then I guess we'll have to wait for the movie.

4/22/2006 08:03:00 AM  
Blogger blert said...

I don’t have time to fisk Cordesman’s entire piece, but let’s start with:

The French blocking us at the UN… threatening Turkey with perpetual exclusion from the common market… the staggering impact of Oil-For-Diplomacy….

Combined, these triggered the bulk of the headaches back in 2002-2003.

The biggest errors of Bush & Co have resulted when Foggy Bottom is in control. The State Department is always more concerned with Saudi and Kuwaiti perceptions which means that they back the weak horse in Iraq.

The next biggest errors all revolve around our critical strategic weakness: translators – linguistic and cultural. The unlawful combatants started their campaign by targeting them, quite a tip off as to their importance.

Other mind boggling errors include: not securing and destroying Saddam’s immense weapons stores. FOR MONTHS fantastic quantities were left unguarded in al Anbar. One ammo dump, broadcast live on CNN, was ten miles on a side! (Not surprisingly, the re-broadcast was never aired.)

The whole WMD story is about to spin around: the latest revelations from transcripts and testimonies are extremely damning to Saddam. The sensitivity of binary nerve gas shells in the hands of unlawful combatants prone to command detonated mines ( IED ) well explains why the real evidence of chemical weapons is surpressed.

The unspoken error: Bush & Co did not figure that Iran could play both Sunni and Shiite like a violin. Even today Iran’s massive involvement with both sides is poorly propounded.

On an even larger scale: France, Germany, Russia and China are not at all happy to see American hegemony in the Gulf.

We are in conflict with (almost) all of the ex-empires of the world: Muslim, Persian, Chinese, Russian, French and German. Our position is still too strong for anyone to name us enemy, but that is the way they think and operate.

Iran names Israel when she means America.

China names Taiwan when she means America.

Iraq, pe se, is virtually a done deal. We’re not looking for perfect – and we won’t get it.

WWIV is much larger than the first pawns.

4/22/2006 08:11:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/22/2006 08:14:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

Also, Cordesman pretty much wept like someone dipped his piggy tails in the inkpot during a CSPAN-broadcast sub-committee hearing on Wahhabi funding networks. His characterizations were pathetic, and wear refuted by literature in the possession of his co-panelists, who were so "ideologically pre-committed" that they understand that truth is just a plain picture.

Send Cordesman to a nunnery.

4/22/2006 08:17:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

How about Trish's Librarian?

4/22/2006 08:21:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

I think Trish and Ash are the same people.

4/22/2006 08:26:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Blert, compliments on a tight exposition of some basic truths.

Rat, LOL--the movie will teach us--but, in the vein of obscure symbols, Achilles died but killed Hector first--our analogy is Zbigniev's "We lose by winning". or is it, "We win by losing" -- i get cornfused.

4/22/2006 08:27:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/22/2006 08:28:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

One thing I notice about BS slingers in General, and Tony C. in particular:
They GO ON.
(and on and on and on)
But we'll all shine on...

4/22/2006 08:29:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

And yet they still didn't vote Maliki in today.

Good god, it's not like the PM's going to be the Caliph: just install the bastard already and let's get on to the next phase of whatever you morons are going to inflict on yourselves. Damn.

4/22/2006 08:30:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Recommend highly the rat link to the counterterrorism blog.

4/22/2006 08:31:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

call me crazy, but the riddled CIA makes me wonder--is this attack on Rummy--which seems to be overly obviously an attack on Bush via OIF--actually a foreign rival trying to dump the "transformation" of the US military?

4/22/2006 08:37:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Rummy loading up the Pacific?

4/22/2006 08:40:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Doug, your 8:29, I too have long been amazed at the resilience. No matter how often proved wrong--or even crooked--they never show any wear and tear. Energizer Bunnies stuck at hard left rudder, circling full speed ahead.

4/22/2006 08:46:00 AM  
Blogger Oengus Moonbones said...

The Great Wretchard: "…there are already the Dana Priests and the Mary McCarthys. So soon. So soon."

My only question here is "Where is Bush?"

If I don't see prosecutions, and soon, carried out with upmost vigor—or with extreme prejudice as they say in the military—then I can only reach one conclusion: Bush is, sadly, a failed leader because he is too intent on being "nice" to everyone.

The Prez should come out and at least say "I'm as mad as Heck and I won't takes it anymore."

4/22/2006 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Intriguing notion. (instap ht)

4/22/2006 09:36:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

Interesting take, Buddy. I doubt any of the benefits would outweigh the damage done by impeachment proceedings. But perhaps. I rather think it would be an excuse for the fringe to really take over, in a way they failed to achieve with McGovern but were able to reprise with Carter.

Regardless though I wanted to ask you or any other noble apostles of the vast rightwing conspiracy here: does anyone sincerely feel any actual effect of this supposed Evangelical Christian takeover of public culture? I sure as hell do not, except in the occasional dorky tv preacher I click past and of course the constant leftwing reference to their totalitarian phantom enemy du jour. But then again I don't care about abortion, so perhaps I'm incapable of feeling it.

4/22/2006 09:45:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

That sentence in the link jangled me, too, dan. I just assume that I'm missing something. I guess you are, too.

4/22/2006 09:50:00 AM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Doug (at 6:49 AM),

You probably should read Lolita again, and also Nabokov's Speak, Memory (perhaps the most magnificent autobiography in our literature), and "Nabokov's Blues" (a wonderful study of Nabokov's second career, lepidoptery).

Reading Lolita one comes to despise H.H., the protagonist, and there can be little doubt that the author despised him as well.

Frank S. Meyer, the author of the 1958 review of Lolita in National Review that you cite, rightly skewers the critics who evidently misread (in Harold Bloom's sense) the work, including, incredibly, Lionel Trilling! But then Mr. Meyer goes too far himself (though in the opposite direction) in my view.

Nabokov was not a moralist; he was a novelist.

Jamie Irons

BTW, I always find it difficult to remember to pronounce Vladimir's surname correctly; but the author himself has provided a little ditty to help us in this endeavor:

The querulous gawk of
A heron at night
Prompts Nabokov
To write.


;-)

4/22/2006 10:19:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

Dan, 9:45, Buddy, 9:50

It's a sad day when Christians are disparaged in the United States of America.

I also cannot fathom the mental pathology which would lead the sufferer to see Christians as a menace.

It's another symptom of a decaying society.

4/22/2006 10:45:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

jamie, all the more distinguishing,

born Russian, writing English in.

4/22/2006 10:49:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

I admit it's hard for me to make out what's going on in Ada, though, the one time I read its first 50 pages.

4/22/2006 10:52:00 AM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Dan,

I've never read Ada, but a trusted, intelligent friend tells me it's her favorite novel...

Buddy,

In the foreword to Speak, Memory, Nabokov talks about how his autobiography went through several "internal" translations from Russian to English and back again, perhaps the only such book in our literature.

This re-Englishing of a Russian re-version of what had been an English retelling of Russian memories in the first place, proved to be a diabolical task...


;-)



Jamie Irons

4/22/2006 11:06:00 AM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

Lolita, and much else in Nabokov, is, I think, a kind of Rohrshach test--what you see is--what you are.

4/22/2006 11:13:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

Bounding the Global War on Terrorism

Jeffrey Record

December, 2003


www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2003/record_bounding.pdf

4/22/2006 11:29:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

Can Iraq Be Democratic?

Patrick Basham

January, 2004

www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa505.pdf

4/22/2006 11:32:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Ha--"a diabolocal task" and "what you see is what you are" -- and what you are is this, in the Nabokov world. laughter and light.

4/22/2006 11:46:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

"Cordesman is a fucking moron. He should retire. He's been saying the same crap this ENTIRE TIME."

No, dan. The fucking moron is the official or policy advisor whom you remembered saying, with regard to Iraq, "Let's break it and see what happens."

4/22/2006 12:02:00 PM  
Blogger Smacko said...

Oh come on Trish,

Wretchards own comments on Mr Records article from OVER TWO YEARS AGO (which you might have known if you spent more effort here than drop your normal IDGD -improvised doom n gloom device).

quote:
There is in addition, the question of control cases. It is not as if Record's recommendations have not been implemented before. They are a perfect description of Amrican policies in the decades before September 11, including President Clinton's. No more need be added. The current European experience, which accurately simulates the outcomes of countries which have substantially eschewed preemptive action and democratic prosletyzation, is not very encouraging. They have described themselves as now being on the frontline of terrorism, which is in its own way, the sincerest form of endorsement for American policy.
end quote.

It is very telling that it seems that your opinion of 9-11 is that NOTHING IS BROKEN.

4/22/2006 12:23:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Trish, absent his removal, what, in your mind, was going to happen, would've likely happened by now, with Saddam, and all the encroaching global dealings he linked together?

4/22/2006 12:25:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

You know, buddy, my soon-to-be-home husband remarked the other day upon the striking difference between the ways in which "pre-emptive" and non-pre-emptive wars are carried out. (Iraq v. Afghanistan.)

Now I would add to that: I think that we've engaged in the former for so long that the ways of non-pre-emptive, or preventive, wars have bled into the way in which we fight wars that are necessary.

Which doesn't answer your question, but, Oh, Well.

4/22/2006 12:58:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

"The Revolutionary Guards, the secret police, and other Saddam loyalists are contemptible, but the idea we disband the entire army and security forces and start over with training and ground up new groups is impractical and dangerous."

Sounds about right, Wretchard. In our past successful occupations we worked hand in hand with the defeated army and government people - using them in positions of value (local police, admin, translators, simply doing their previous jobs) or in positions of little value simply to keep them accounted for and their activities kept under control of the occupier. De-Nazification took a gradual 3 years to slowly, slowly do to minimize societal "shocks". And that was with a 3 million man occupation Army and civilian administration that had planned 3 years in the war for how Japan and Germany would be dealt with in postwar.

I think the consensus is that the fell swoop De-Ba'athification was a catastrophic strategic error. We just turned loose 200,000 military, admin, and secret police, fairly able people - into the streets of Ramadi, Baghdad, etc. - told them in effect that they were the enemy and their day was done.

Instead of insisting on those on a list muster, be paid, and using them. With those failing to report assumed to be refusing suurender and subject to be hunted down and killed.

Now after we had demonstrated how to do a fair, superbly planned occupation after WWII, we blew it badly in Iraq with no real planning on a reckless insistance that no planning was necessary in a "liberation of a noble, peace-loving people". And we will pay for that in future crisis like Iran, because until we redeem confidence in our abilities - we will think that we can beat Iran's stand up military easily, but then would be in a mess 3X as large as Iraq, costing us 3X the hundreds of billions and the 18,000 casualties Iraq has cost us so far.

I believe it will take a new President before we consider expanding to a new major war. Unless we have lots of allies. A new President will help dispell the loss of confidence Iraq has caused in our war-fighting ability and postwar role.
-----------------
Dan - While you can still find a few blogs that still support the neocon vision...all the errors and ineptitude pretty well indicate the neocons, Sharansky, the Likudnik vision are discredited. Those who were once prominent neocons are trying to blame others.
Time may have passed for you to be advantaged by being a good little loyal neocon tool.
-----------------------
Blert, you had many good observations until this WTF??? came up:

The whole WMD story is about to spin around: the latest revelations from transcripts and testimonies are extremely damning to Saddam. The sensitivity of binary nerve gas shells in the hands of unlawful combatants prone to command detonated mines ( IED ) well explains why the real evidence of chemical weapons is surpressed.

Are you one of the last that believes in "vast, hidden stockpiles" and are making the argument that Islamoids out to kill us only refrain from using their "vast hidden stockpiles" from "sensitivity" or that an administration that was discredited on WMD and would have loved to find some aware of binary nerve gas use and formed a conspiracy involving 10s of thousands of soldiers and medical personnel to cover up their current use?

Count me confused on what you are getting at with the "WMD" thing.

Iran names Israel when she means America. China names Taiwan when she means America.

No, Israel and Taiwan are targets in their own right. It really isn't All About US when you look at global animosities. America has become synonymous with Zionism in most countries, though.

4/22/2006 12:59:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

I think that we've engaged in the former for so long that the ways of *pre-emptive* or preventive, wars have bled into the way in which we fight wars that are necessary.

4/22/2006 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I know, trish, it was a crappy question for a blog comment section--whatever you'd say would just become an easy target. But, that points up the essential problem, the pickle we're in. No matter what we do, it's not gonna be easy, and maybe not even successful--especially if we quit too soon. What is "too soon"? that's another problem--you only know it was too soon after it's too late.

Of the two "when to leave Iraq" errors, which is the better to make, Too Soon, or Too Late ?

4/22/2006 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

I disagree. I think the proper appraisal of the situation, which was chaos-with-CNNs-jimmied-news-coverage, was the only honest and pragmatic way to go about it.

Think we wouldn't've had uniformed squads of ethnic killers had we kept the Baath AMry together?

Well, what do you think that army Was?

C'mon. This is a ludicrous debate.

4/22/2006 01:52:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

C4 - ha! If I only I were advantaged by being a neo-con tool. I have only been disadvantaged, except that my integrity is in-tact. In fact, I've been busily asking my Jewish friends how much blood-matzoh i need to make in order to qualify for Official Goi Footsoldir in the Great Conspiracy, but so far I get only blank stares.

A tight operation! Only makes this willing slave of Zion try harder, though - don't you worry.

4/22/2006 01:55:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

dan, with me it's jackie mason--until the nazis come up with somebody funny, i'm gonna have to t'row wit da jews, too.

4/22/2006 02:01:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

A goldfish goes in a bar and the bartender asks "Wot'll it be?"

Goldfish sez "Water!"

4/22/2006 02:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Still fish pee to me.

4/22/2006 02:38:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Jamie, I LOVE Abba!
You can sing or hum it, and it's pretty darn well written.

4/22/2006 02:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

9:45 AM,
Oh you'd FEEL it Dan, no doubt about that.
And the Doc would have to call
Roto Rooter.

4/22/2006 02:51:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

(Trish sings:
"Away go Troubles,
Down the Drain!"

4/22/2006 02:52:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Anyone else think
"I'm Mad as Heck..."
is SERIOUSLY over the line?

4/22/2006 02:55:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Darn it, that remark really miffed me!

4/22/2006 03:03:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

"Of the two 'when to leave Iraq' errors, which is the better to make, Too Soon, or Too Late ?"

**********************************

"We oughta have a victory parade with the troops marching through Baghdad...and right on out."

4/22/2006 03:07:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Dan said...
C4 - ha! If I only I were advantaged by being a neo-con tool. I have only been disadvantaged, except that my integrity is in-tact. In fact, I've been busily asking my Jewish friends how much blood-matzoh i need to make in order to qualify for Official Goi Footsoldir in the Great Conspiracy, but so far I get only blank stares.


Chill, Dan! I never said you had to be Jewish to be a Zionist booklicker. Plenty of gentiles such as yourself are such good little neocons.....

It must hurt that Sharon's stroke along with Bush's bumbling ineptness left your sort rudderless for so long...

4/22/2006 06:26:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug & buddy larsen,

I think I missed something; has someone seriously stepped over some line?

4/22/2006 07:16:00 PM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

I think I missed something; has someone seriously stepped over some line?

Yes.

Jamie Irons

4/22/2006 07:22:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

jamie irons, 7:22 PM

Thanks for the helpful info.

4/22/2006 08:11:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Oh it did, Cedar. Thank you for the lemonjuice, though. I'll just put it on the list...

4/23/2006 10:14:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Pick me up a tube of Dr. Scholl's Bootlicker Tongue Salve, too, wouldja, dan? Blisters lately, owweeee.

4/23/2006 11:21:00 AM  

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