Sunday, April 16, 2006

Easter post

Little Green Footballs links to a Washington Post article describing the life of a liberal blogger:

In the angry life of Maryscott O’Connor, the rage begins as soon as she opens her eyes and realizes that her president is still George W. Bush. The sun has yet to rise and her family is asleep, but no matter; as soon as the realization kicks in, O’Connor, 37, is out of bed and heading toward her computer. ... She smokes a cigarette. Should it be about Bush, whom she considers “malevolent,” a “sociopath” and “the Antichrist”? She smokes another cigarette. Should it be about Vice President Cheney, whom she thinks of as “Satan,” or about Karl Rove, “the devil”? ...

“WAKE THE [expletive] UP,” she writes next, and this time, instead of pausing, she keeps going, typing harder and harder on a keyboard that is surrounded by a pack of cigarettes, a dirty ashtray, a can of nonalcoholic beer, an album with photos of her dead father and a taped-up note — staring at her — on which she has scrawled “Why am I/you here?”

LGF says: "It’s amazing how closely this matches my mental image of these lunatics."

In the interests of comparison and contrast I've taken a picture of my own workspace, with the photo of the liberal blogger faintly visible onscreen. The setup isn't much better than the Maryscott O'Connor's. Here's a description of the objects in the picture. One software box of Norton Ghost (yellow carton). One regular phone with handsfree headset. (You can see the Plantronics mike sticking up to the left of the monitor). Nineteen inch screen. Keyboard. Logitech trackball. Video camera. Multiple USB adapters in a spaghetti tangle. Computer headset with microphone. Pencil case with mostly out-of-ink pens and working mechanical pencils. Hairbrush left on the table for no apparent reason. Powerbar. Luxo lamp. Cables leading to router, broadband modems, peripherals. The really important stuff is off camera. Coffee-bean grinder. Coffee plunger. Water heater. And the software in in the computer, which is a handbuilt AMD box with Frankenstein parts I've nicknamed Old Sparky.

 

It would be interesting to know what setups readers have. Maybe in basements, living rooms, attics, garages. Somehow I think that attitudes aside, most people have a lot in common with Ms. O'Connor.

Happy Easter everybody.

226 Comments:

Blogger rabidfox` said...

Right now I'm living out of a motel room waiting for my house to be repaired. The only difference is that my equipment is on top of a tv cart and a folding table. Mess, yes.

4/16/2006 05:13:00 PM  
Blogger exhelodrvr said...

Currently two computers in the family room connected via a router; when the two older kids get home from college we'll have three down here, and one upstairs in the dining room.

Wretchard, trying to change the topic?

4/16/2006 05:28:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Liberal no doubt a Greenie in her own mind, yet right-wing reactionary Wretchard is the one with the Power-Saving Monitor.
Luckily, she can't afford a Gulfstream.

4/16/2006 05:29:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Zaius said...

Panic in Year Zero...

Time to awake the Somnambulist.

4/16/2006 05:29:00 PM  
Blogger USCitizen said...

Here's my current setup for blogging from the Garage.

(No power saving monitor here!)

4/16/2006 05:35:00 PM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

Just installed a wireless network in the house.

Best thing I ever did.

Happy Easter all,

ADE

4/16/2006 05:39:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Somnambulist,

Interesting link. Many of the comments at LGF express amazement at the level of hostility certain people have for GWB. It's almost incandescent hatred.

My own guess is that if GWB didn't exist he would have to be invented. In fact, GWB always had his historical counterpart. Nixon. Reagan. GWB is simply the latest incarnation of whatever archetype he represents. If I'm right then four years into the future the obsession will be with something else.

Exhelodrvr, it's possible that many readers will have more in common with Ms. O'Connor's furniture than with the lady herself. Which is amazing in a way.

4/16/2006 05:40:00 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

Laptop. 801G network. LOS broadband at 780 mb/s off the watertower in the nearest town 8 mi away. I also have a Treo to get email on or for quick web checks.

I have a very nearly complete set of software tools, documentation sets, a large code base, e-books, and several VMware instances with several O/S on my laptop.

I can work from home on VLDBs for clients around the USA or go into the office. I make extensive electronic notes and keep lists in word and excel and do little handwriting now.

Work space is kitchen table which I share with my wife who finishing her degree. Sometimes its a queen bed or the sofa. House is surrounded by thousands of acres of open pasture and we can see for miles. We don't have TV.

A locked and loaded .243 wssm rifle with a scope is by the bedroom door along with a digital camera.

A half-dozen unread books lie by the bed - including the most recently acquired "Faith and Betrayal" which is quite interesting when juxtaposed against the Muslim Fanaticism of today.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140004135X/sr=8-2/qid=1145233244/ref=sr_1_2/104-2013367-0746346?%5Fencoding=UTF8

4/16/2006 05:41:00 PM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

U.S. Citizen,

You sir have installed hardware before....

4/16/2006 05:41:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

ADE,

Watch out for bandwidth thieves. You'd be surprised how far your wireless router throws out a signal. I took a laptop and walked a long ways down the street before it lost the connection. Always enable encryption.

4/16/2006 05:42:00 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

Wretchard - have you ever seen a contested divorce with kids?

That can descend into madness much worse than the hatred for GWB.

FDR was hated on the same level by many as well.

4/16/2006 05:43:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Red River,

I knew a South African with an invincibly sunny disposition who was instantly transformed into an embittered caricature of a man once the subject of his ex-wife and alimony came up. Amazing change.

4/16/2006 05:51:00 PM  
Blogger Asher Abrams said...

"I am this close to being one of those muttering people pushing a cart."

Wondering if there's anything I can do to help her finish that journey.

4/16/2006 06:01:00 PM  
Blogger Asher Abrams said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/16/2006 06:01:00 PM  
Blogger Asher Abrams said...

Anyway. 17 inch Mac G4 Powerbook, with a 12", a G5 desktop, and a Toshiba PC as backups.

Encyclopaedia Britannica and Oxford English Dictionary on bookshelves over writing desk.

Maps of Iran, Iraq, Israel, and Middle East on walls.

American Flag on other wall.

Books. Currently had to fill a duffelbag to capacity and death-march to Powell's new/used books to sell some of my old titles and hopefully forestall power shutoff. Not to worry, you can still hardly see my floor and the couch is entirely invisible. Audre Lorde, Haim Harari, Ghazal Omid, Nechama Leibowitz, Ursula K. LeGuin, Samuel R. Delany, Shakespeare, Feynman, Toni Morrison, Ntozake Shange, Alan Dershowitz, Isaac Bashevis Singer, Langston Hughes, Borges, William Gaddis, Pat/Patrick Califia, Rita Mae Brown, Jane Austen, Arthur Goldschmidt, Irshad Manji, Bernard Lewis, Rashi, ibn Ezra, Yehuda haLevi, Asimov, Bradbury, Robert Frost, Edwin Arlington Robinson ...

Who says I live alone?

4/16/2006 06:12:00 PM  
Blogger rhhardin said...

I have a windows 95 machine from 1996, and on a lecturn on the left, a modern $399 Dell laptop as a camera accessory.

pic

4/16/2006 06:14:00 PM  
Blogger Eggplant said...

Wretchard said:

"the computer, which is a handbuilt AMD box with Frankenstein parts I've nicknamed Old Sparky"

My machine is also a handbuilt AMD Frankenstein. Many of the parts I got second hand from junk stores, e.g. the monitor is from a SUN workstation, the mouse was from a SGI workstation, the keyboard is an old IBM Model M (best keyboards ever made). My machine has three hard disks on it (one ISA and two SCSIs). The hard disks and DVD reader are also second hand workstation refugees. The computer multiboots on different operating systems through LILO, i.e. Linux, Windows, DOS, etc. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Linux bigot and only use the other operating systems on rare occasion. The computer is a dual AMD Athlon CPU (XP chips modified into MPs) on an MSI motherboard (dual CPU machines have very smooth operating characteristics when running a multithreaded OS like Linux). I call my machine "Scumbo".

4/16/2006 06:17:00 PM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Once a person fixates on Mr Bush as evil incarnate, it becomes very difficult to see Ahmadi-nejhad as who HE truly is, sneering at the west's crippled helplessness, after 27 YEARS of DEMONSTRATED REFUSAL to adhere to internationally-accepted norms of civilized behaviour, including the illegal acquisition of nuclear weapons for the stated purpose of 'wiping Israel off the map!'

Hey, Moonbat! I gotcher "Anti-christ" rightcheer!

4/16/2006 06:25:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

My set-up is a Dell laptop and wherever I can get wireless access. If it's in the morning, I have coffee beside me. If it's in the afternoon, water. In the evening, Vodka and Tonic. If I'm really serious, Jack on the Rocks.

4/16/2006 06:33:00 PM  
Blogger Eggplant said...

Karridine said...

"Once a person fixates on Mr Bush as evil incarnate, it becomes very difficult to see Ahmadi-nejhad as who HE truly is... Hey, Moonbat! I gotcher "Anti-christ" rightcheer!"

Arguing politics with a moonbat is almost as pointless as discussing Cartesian dualism with the family cat.

4/16/2006 06:33:00 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

Eggplant. Cool!!

Take a gander at VMWare GSX server to get your other O/S to run smoothly within your linux systems.

4/16/2006 06:37:00 PM  
Blogger Asher Abrams said...

Eggplant, heh ...

4/16/2006 06:46:00 PM  
Blogger Eggplant said...

Red River said...

"Take a gander at VMWare GSX server to get your other O/S to run smoothly within your linux systems."

I've been thinking about using VMWare for years. What holds me back is I'm too cheap to pay for a VMWare license but too honest to use warez. I wish they could get WINE sorted out.

4/16/2006 06:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Anti-Orientalist
---
We could do w/o the Anti-Feline Bigotry, Mr. Eggplant.
esp on W the Cats Site!

4/16/2006 07:02:00 PM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

Doug,

Couldn't get past the 1st page on your link... A synopsis would suffice, I think.

What, you tryin' to stir up the nest? This is the civil thread, methinks.

4/16/2006 07:12:00 PM  
Blogger HK Vol said...

And a Happy Easter to you Wretchard!

Let's see. An Apple G4 computer (to avoid viruses and the ease of loading music and photos), 2 ipods, tons of unfiled business cards, some of my many books "on deck" to be read (Forbes book of Business Quotations, Capital - Story of Long Term Investment Excellence, Ronald Reagan - An American Life, Khrushchev - The Man and His Life, Selected writings of Jonathan Edwards, Selected Short Stories of William Faulkner), tax info, research report on Chinese Demographics, and yesterday's Financial Times.

Geeky enough for everyone?

4/16/2006 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger Bob W. said...

Happy Easter wretchard. I always enjoy reading your blog.

Bob (the Wilsonizer)

4/16/2006 07:27:00 PM  
Blogger Asher Abrams said...

hk vol, great collection! "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" is one of my favorite pieces of American religious writing. Hope to have the chance to read Edwards in depth some day.

4/16/2006 07:42:00 PM  
Blogger trangbang68 said...

I'm sorry that chick is scary looking.I've been married for 25 years this year and my dear wife on her worst PMS day couldn't hold a candle to that hormonal raging broom rider.
I would tell you I have a six year old limping HP pavillion,but you guys are way too techno saavy for that.
I do have a rambling old bungalow built in 1939 with a couple thousand
books in it and a doberman and a mutt.
I would recommend a book I just skimmed through,It's called "The Fate of Africa".I believe the author's name is Meredith.Its a fascinating look at a failed but magnificent continent.Happy Easter also to one and all.

4/16/2006 07:59:00 PM  
Blogger curtis said...

College student- I live in a small dorm room, and set an aging Dell Inspiron 8500 hooked up to a Sony flatpanel. It sits underneath my bed, next to a few overflowing bookshelves that are sadly filled not with wonderful works of human literature, but drap textbooks I haven't sold back to the school yet.

I can identify with the USB mess- my laptop only has two USB 2.0 ports, and thus I'm connected to two chained hubs to keep everthing going. (Yes, I realize chaining hubs slows down everything ;)...) External harddrive, etc.

Altogether an unimpressive setup, but on that I think works for me. Hopefully in the future I'll be able to write about my MacBook Pro or other new upgrade, but for now, its get through school and get a job.

4/16/2006 08:17:00 PM  
Blogger Paul Coyle said...

Wifi router, dsl, a buch of $200 ebay laptops such that where ever I sleep, nap, watch tv...there it is.

Pathetic. But I know my self.

4/16/2006 08:32:00 PM  
Blogger lewy14 said...

Hairbrush left on the table for no apparent reason.

You have hair. Fantasic!
[/Dr. Who]

4/16/2006 08:41:00 PM  
Blogger Eleanor © said...

My bedroom set up is an Apple G4 laptop on old TV cart, including an external hard drive and detached webcam. The cart has with shelves on which I store programs. Another cart with scanner and printer. Unopened USB cable and book titled "Teach Yourself Visually HTML." Shelves contain programs and supplies.

Side table with lamp piled with books: The Tiger's Way, Tactics of the Crescent Moon; Team of Rivals: the Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln; The Shadows of Power; The Camp of the Saints; The Dawning of a New Dark Age; The Purpose Driven Life; The Legacy of Jihad; John Dewey and the Decline of American Education; Shakespeare and the Culture of Christianity in Early Modern England; The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades; Those Terrible Middle Ages; Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand; How the World Really Works; Winning the Long War; The Unknown Story of Mao; Eurabia-The Euro-Arab Axis; Albion's Seed.

My faithful Rottweiler bitch is at my side at every step.

I share a wireless routed system with my husband whose setup is in another room.

Happily I have nothing in common with Ms. O'Conner except for her apparent gender.

Happy Easter.

4/16/2006 08:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Paul, maybe you could blog your experience with the laptops on Radio Free Vodka .
I like having more than one for recording audio from the net, and etc.
Plus, I still like 95 for some things.
Tired of burning all this expensive electricity with my present set up.
---
Didja ever hear "Coyle and Sharp"?
Hilarious:
"Mrs Bessinger has learned to live with misfortune because it's the easiest thing to do."
...or was that Bob and Ray?

4/16/2006 08:43:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Danmeyers,
"Couldn't get past the 1st page on your link... A synopsis would suffice, I think."
---
I was thinking maybe you'd do it for us!
Wonder what THAT woman is like, living with a guy that humps Muslim men?

4/16/2006 08:49:00 PM  
Blogger HK Vol said...

Thanks for the links Soshanna.
Perhaps Wretchard will open up a blog on "books read in the past year" "books on deck" and/or "books that have greatly influenced your thinking." Would be instructive as to the thinking of others who read along with perhaps inspiration of what to read next....

4/16/2006 08:53:00 PM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Eggplant: 'meoowww...'

I hear you.

And my setup here is again being threatened by a thunderstorm. Saturday's close lightning FRIED two hard disks, and I just got back up and online Monday, 0730 BKK.

"It LIVES! Igor, it lives!"
"Yeth, Mawthter..."

So I'll see you later, or my Frankenklutz hammer-and-tong aberration desktop here is liable to get whammied yet AGAIN, and that's no kool a tall!

4/16/2006 08:56:00 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

I live alone. Small bungalow in the rear, ham antennas on the roof. 3 PC's networked, & high speed internet. 1 PC for video projects & graphics, one for 3D and related utlities, and an el cheapo PC for email, etc. Laptop I can take to work with a Verizon Wireless card, and a Windows Pocket PC/cellphone also with Verizon Wireless. 1 bookcase with program-related books, 1 bookcase with miscellaneous pubs including some from Ann Coulter. Holder for my 150+ DVD's, 27" Sony HD TV, sofa. Table for my ham radios, and to hold my Canon digicam & camcorder.

4/16/2006 09:02:00 PM  
Blogger Dymphna said...

The Baron and I now live in Blog Marriage paradise.

We recently went from one desktop computer and a 26.4 dial up to a Wild Blue internet wireless with a router my son came over and installed. Wi fi heaven!

So the Baron uses his desktop in the office and I sit on the bed across the house with a Dell laptop (with a 17 inch screen --heavy sucker) and a small black cat who likes to bat at some of the iamges. She used to lie on top of the big computer and look at it upside down.

All this wonderfulness hasn't necessarily improved the quality of our blog (though guest posts by Fjordman and Mr. Zamp did that) but it sure has produced domestic tranquility.

We get together for meals and gardening and the occasional bicker over whose turn it is to do what...

...but the books? They lean in precarious topples everywhere.

Eastertide greetings to all.

(Wretchard, the word verification for this one end in "cat."

4/16/2006 09:25:00 PM  
Blogger nextcube said...

I'm a laptop user these days, so no real workspace. My wife uses an Apple iBook G4 12", and I'm using my employer's Thinkpad T42 (2378FVU).

4/16/2006 09:26:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Maybe soon Intel/Apples will run a VMware-like app?
Sure would be nice.

4/16/2006 09:44:00 PM  
Blogger Mike H. said...

eggplant,

866 meg intel, 512 meg ram, 64meg video,126 gig ide drives, un pc 21 in. monitor, Slackware 10 w/2.6.11.7 kernel. No MS. LILO for multiple kernels main kernel listed above. Rest of the room is 10 lbs of [blank] stuffed into a 5 lb bag. A blivot to be precise.

4/16/2006 09:52:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Kid got the Apple Mini to save juice at home. (13 watts?)
Knows BSD inside and out so is at home there.
Secures the Supercomputer peripheral networks by day.

4/16/2006 10:22:00 PM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Decades of study of the ins and outs of applied neurology tells me:

The Great Majority (bell curve plus two standard deviations both sides) of humans have EXCELLENT hardware, but our differences are in our firmware and software.

Language is the software of the human brain, and we can ALL improve our programming...

But having said that, I still assert that some of the Chiroptera lunis freaks, AND their Islamazoid counterparts, have SERIOUSLY mal-programmed their inputs and deranged their own knowing and loving capacities, embracing ignorance and hatred, while calling them knowledge and love!

4/16/2006 11:13:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Zaius said...

LGF says: "It’s amazing how closely this matches my mental image of these lunatics."

I'm not familiar with the women in question, but usually in these cases no one coherently disagrees with the target of ridicule. They just experience cognitive dissonance and denial as usual; and accuse the target of being an insane, mentally ill and delusional drug addict.

Isn't that what used to occur in the former Soviet Union to discredit and marginalize ‘dissidents?' Now that tactic would, in retrospect, make perfect sense, considering the more prominent devotees of Neoconservatism were followers of Leon Trotsky. (Yes, it's Justin Raimondo.)

4/16/2006 11:16:00 PM  
Blogger Asher Abrams said...

"usually in these cases no one coherently disagrees with the target of ridicule."

"Should it be about Bush, whom she considers "malevolent," a "sociopath" and "the Antichrist"? She smokes another cigarette. Should it be about Vice President Cheney, whom she thinks of as "Satan," or about Karl Rove, "the devil"? Should it be about the "evil" Republican Party, or the "weaselly, capitulating, self-aggrandizing, self-serving" Democrats, or the Catholic Church, for which she says "I have a special place in my heart . . . a burning, sizzling, putrescent place where the guilty suffer the tortures of the damned"?

Darfur, she finally decides. She will write about Darfur. The shame of it. The culpability of all Americans, including herself, for doing nothing. She will write something so filled with outrage that it will accomplish the one thing above all she wants from her anger: to have an effect.

"Darfur is not hopeless," she begins typing, and pauses.

"Ugh," she says.

"You are not helpless," she continues typing, and pauses again.

"Weak."

She deletes everything and starts over.

"WAKE THE [expletive] UP," she writes next..."

Well, what's the MATTER with you people? Why isn't anyone coherently disagreeing with that?!?

4/16/2006 11:33:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

11:13 PM Karridine,
Just like an MD to put down Chiropractors like that!
...and my firmware is doing just fine, thank you!
Lucky the Strikes did not Flash your Bios into Amnesia.

4/16/2006 11:33:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Be sure not to miss USCitizen's LINK .
Very nice!
Gotta get back into playing with pictures.
Disregard if that nik stands for USC.
Although they did graduate Lynn Swan, Pat Hayden, and my dad.

4/17/2006 05:53:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hey!
USCitizen is the place to go for Immigration Links, SC or not!
Well Done, USC!

4/17/2006 05:59:00 AM  
Blogger Ari Tai said...

A road-warrior w/ a four year old Dell Latitude C610 with 1gb ram (memory is / remains speed and longer battery life), w/ built-in WIFI. I regularly upgrade the built in disks (purchased w/ 40gb, now at 120gb, soon to be 160gb).

I keep two batteries in the machine (besides 5-6 hours of life, makes it a much heftier weapon late at night when walking back to a hotel in big cities, esp. DC).

I've dropped (really launched) the machine from airplane overhead storage three times,. Each time expecting (almost looking forward to) buying a replacement. But the Dell seems to work even better after the abuse. Go figure.

4/17/2006 06:00:00 AM  
Blogger doolz said...

Yesterday's coffee cup.
Uniball pen.
Chocolate covered cherries, from Easter loot.
Slightly old, but functional CRT monitor.
Wireless network in the house, but this machine (cube shaped) is still on wired Ethernet.
SuSE 10.0 box.
Scrap machine I was going to put FreeBSD on.
Cylinder containers of blank DVDs and CDs.
Family pictures.
Demotivator framed print with pictures of pyramids: "Achievement: You can do anything you set your mind to when you have vision, determination and an endless supply of expendable labor"
Pottery covered jar made by my friend, contains some spare change and a few black Go pieces which unfortunately don't fit in their bowl.
Bushnell binoculars (we just moved, and I haven't found a better place for them yet).
Starman DVD case from library containing Makai Kingdom PS2 game.
VS Naipaul: A Bend in the River. Got it last week, haven't started it yet. Looks good.
Python Web Programming, by Steve Holden and David Beazley. From Library, haven't started it yet.

As for my state of mind, I woke up fairly early and the birds were making a huge racket so I couldn't go back to sleep. I thought I might check a few blogs, maybe see what's happened over in Chad.

4/17/2006 06:07:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

USC links a good Captain's Quarter post on Immigration.
Getting A Head Start On Amnesty
---
Cynic's Comment:
The Bush-bots should check out what the Commander in Chief plans with his Security and Prosperity Partnership with Mexico and Canada. I see the creation of a North American version of the EU (which started as a few "free-trade" agreements. There is a Council on Foreign Relations report calling for one effective security perimeter around North America with a common tariff, unhindered cross border traffic and a taxpayer funded bank to rebuild Mexico. Welcome to the North American Community.

We will NEVER see any real security on the border, much less a wall or fence.
Posted by: vinceman
---
I just hope we get a new president, or attack across the border before GWB has a chance to give the country away.

4/17/2006 06:10:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

Not much in my immediate desk area: Gateway laptop, 3200+ AMD 64 bit, DSL connection. Got many, many books of lit, history, philosophy, and whatnot near me. Phone. Remote controls. Guitar & amp & headphones.

How about Iran this morning? And all the papers run by pVssies. Awesome.

4/17/2006 06:12:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Doolz 6:07 AM,
Blame the Birds for your Caffeine Addiction.
Fine!
Fiend.

4/17/2006 06:14:00 AM  
Blogger doolz said...

Well, the birds are definitely in with with Bush. And why is it that I never read that play by Aristophanes? I think I misplaced my copy, but I really enjoyed 'The Frogs'. Good thing we don't have any frogs around here.

The birds, yeah, they are the ones who are responsible for my sleep deprivation, not Makai Kingdom or coffee. Which I haven't had any of yet, and would go nicely with the chocolate covered cherries. Mmmmm.

4/17/2006 06:36:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

NOW THEY BLAME US FOR THEIR CRIMINALS! Get this--now Central American countries are angry at the U.S. for its surge of criminal activity.
You see, it's our fault because actually do deport many illegals who committed violent crimes here. Read this amazing piece!.
---
LA TIMES CONTINUES PUSH FOR ILLEGALS:
It's almost laughable how "open borders" the Los Angeles Times is in all its coverage of illegal alien issues. Read the latest.
- Laura Ingraham

4/17/2006 06:43:00 AM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Mac G4 laptop, wireless that carries signals to both my adjacent houses (no neighbors for a long way so no real worries about bandwidth thievery).

Two large libraries with many hundreds of books: on physics, biology, poetry, Greek and Latin classics, and technical subjects; and ornithology and neurosciences (the only subjects I have anything like an "expertise" in).

Doug,

Yes, Coyle and Sharp were hilarious; I sent for their CD two or three years ago and Coyle's widow (I think it was) sent me a very nice note in the package. I especially like their "In Living Hell" piece.

They worked at a time when people in San Francisco still had a sense of humor. The latter died in the late sixties; I think the "Flower Children" killed it.

Jamie Irons

4/17/2006 06:46:00 AM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

By the way, reading today's posts it's evident to me that most of you work at a much higher high tech level than I do. I wonder if most right-of-center people are technically quite adept, or if this impression of mine is an artifact of Wretchard's blog?

(FWIW, before 9/11 I was left-of-center.)

Jamie Irons

4/17/2006 06:49:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

doolz,
Here we have a "Coqui Frog" Invasion from Puerto Rico.
Evidently makes a horrible racket, trying to eradicate it before it takes over.
(don't have it where I live)
---
Control of Coqui Frog in Hawai'i

4/17/2006 06:50:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

" Demotivator framed print with pictures of pyramids:
"Achievement: You can do anything you set your mind to when you have vision, determination and an endless supply of expendable labor
"
Ny Times has a piece on the new craze for Mausoleums in this country.
...can't find it:
Still trying to go to sleep.
Couldn't be Caffeine or Sudafed.
It's the damned Computer!

4/17/2006 06:52:00 AM  
Blogger Jamie Irons said...

Doolz:

I think I misplaced my copy, but I really enjoyed 'The Frogs'...


Brek ek brek ek, koax koax...

say the Hyla regilla outside my window and up the canyon this very wet spring morning in Napa Valley...

;-)

Jamie Irons

4/17/2006 06:55:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wow,
Thanks for the Coyle update Jamie:
Remember Les Crane and Jazzbo Collins?
Les Spoke to the Campus Communists at Beserkley!
...a friend and I went to hear him then left when he did, to the derisive comments of the Commies.

4/17/2006 06:58:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

Robert Musil's alter ego Ulrich points out in The Man Without Qualities that all his ideas about the world - he's speaking of philosophical convictions and sentiments - were formed and done by the age of 26, with only minor fluctuations occuring thereafter (the protagonist is in his early 30s in the novel).

Discuss, if it is your wont.

4/17/2006 07:01:00 AM  
Blogger doolz said...

Our Pacific island also has a frog invasion on its hands.

These frogs occasionally eat birds, so they're probably not in it with them unless they have a mutual non-agression pact going like Hitler and Stalin did (Molotov/Von Ribbentrop). I'm pretty sure there aren't any around my house, as I'd have heard them.

4/17/2006 07:01:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Jamie,
I gotta ask my (Jewish) Cardiologist what he was typing on when I did a stress test:
Had a green monochrome Monitor, and a keyboard from the 80's!
---
Most of the newer junk is just time-wasting if you need to get something done!

4/17/2006 07:02:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"The flower children killed it" LOL! Check that, 'sobbing out loud'. Yes, that's it.

4/17/2006 07:06:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

doolz,
Someone said Vancouver Island is an unrecognizable multicult shadow of it's former self:
True?
We stayed up off Quadra Island when you could watch the Eagles, Salmon, Loons, etc.
Salmon fed the Eagles, Loons entertained us.

4/17/2006 07:07:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

7:06 AM
Not funny, Bud.
SF used to be a hardscrabble Dem Union town.
At least they had Law and Order, Irish Whiskey, and humor.

4/17/2006 07:09:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

...and Alioto did a house to house search once to get some vicious perp who will go unnamed, since I caint remember.
Or Sleep.

4/17/2006 07:10:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

No, it's not funny--you're right. I liked it best during the Gold Rush, when i was just a kid.

4/17/2006 07:15:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

:-)
Age does have it's rewards.
...listening to Hillary,
at a younger age my BP would be sky high.
Ah well.

4/17/2006 07:18:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Actually, I WOULDN'T BE LISTENING to Hillary at a younger age!
Crap.

4/17/2006 07:19:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Gracie Slick, Buckminster Fuller, Stewart Brand (Whole Earth Catalogue). The Age of Aquariums.

4/17/2006 07:27:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

We saw Gracie in SF courtesy of Phil Grahm.
(details because I can't remember the "famous" venue where it happened)
...I was in the Army at the time, I believe.
Girlfriend had a neat appartment on 17th not far from ...
(place where the hippies, then the gays moved it)
Jamie would know.
(I would too, with a nites sleep)
---
AVALON BALLROOM!

4/17/2006 07:34:00 AM  
Blogger John Samford said...

Test.

4/17/2006 07:34:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Your Texas Gal is still my favorite tho.
...again the memory fails:
Greatest Song:
"White Rabbit"

4/17/2006 07:36:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Ah, those were the days.

Avalon Ballroom, SI!Plumbing in Dubuque, NO!

4/17/2006 07:41:00 AM  
Blogger doolz said...

Ok Shoshanna (11:33) I'll bite.

"Darfur is not hopeless," are not Maryscott's words, they are from Nicholas Kristof's NYT piece. Kristof has been rightly recognized for his coverage of this issue, but what does she bring to the analysis besides expletives and rage? For her, Darfur is about her, and about her BDS syndrome.

Maryscott's program:

First: Financial support for the African Union peacekeeping

Second: Expanded U.N. security force in Sudan

Third: Create no fly zone. Sudan is bombing its own people. Make it a no fly zone and tell them if they violate it we’ll bomb the everloving SHIT out of their airplanes. Their AIR FORCE.

Fourth: The House should pass the Darfur Peace and Accountability Act, which would impose sanctions and pressure on Sudan to stop the violence.

My response:

1) The AU force are more along the lines of 'observers' than peacekeepers. They are practically incapable of protecting NGO staff, never mind Darfurians.

2) The UN has no such legal power to infringe on the soveregnity of a member state. Sudan will not allow the deployment of UN peacekeepers, because this would be against the interests of the GOS, and for the interests of the rebel JEM and SLA factions. Also, there is no consensus within the General Assembly (and definitely not in the Security Council) for the use of force. There is, however, a way (if the UN had a collective spine) to do this: invoke the Convention Against Genocide. "NEVER AGAIN!" Never believe "NEVER AGAIN!" because they never, ever mean it.

3) The no-fly zone is also an infringement on the sovereignty of Sudan. The No-Fly Zones over Iraq were a result of the defeat of Iraq in Gulf War I. There has been no such war or subsequent treaties. And didn't the 'No-Fly Zone' work out so well in the end? As an idea, it's a non-flyer.

4) Why not impose sanctions next? Unilaterally, no less. Sudan just got off the US list of nations sanctioned for the State-sponsorship of terrorism. Meanwhile, the Chinese, Russians and EU will ignore these sanctions. And then in another 12 years another president will have to invade to effect a regime change. I thought the Left was against these sorts of shenanigans? At least back when I was mildly Left, they were.

In short, I found nothing of value in her piece, in the time I spent reading it, I could have read a William Kristof editorial. In the time I spent rebutting her, I could have read two of them (given that I got around the NYT firewall somehow, maybe do an end-run like the German tanks did around the Maginot Line).

Darfur, like Rwanda before it, is a failure of the 'global community'. It is beginning to be a threat to the Government of Chad, as well. With Iran acting the way it is, the US (and its desultory allies such as NATO) are right to pay more attention to it.

Anyone who has read about Somalia will recognize that as soon as US forces (and nobody else is around who can do it) hit the ground they will become the medias sweethearts for two weeks. Then there will be talk of quagmire. The NATO bombing campaign over Kosovo was fodder for America haters as well. Maryscott lives in too simplistic of a universe (all of which is derived from the irrational hatred she experiences waking up with Bush still being the president) for her analysis to be interesting to me.

And I am against 'waking the **** up!' on general principles.

4/17/2006 07:43:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ingraham has some devastating Sound Bytes with Bob Simon:
"People" bragging about killing Israeli Children.
...60 Minutes.

4/17/2006 07:46:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

doolz,
But what about my Loons and Multicult questions?
Jeez!

4/17/2006 07:49:00 AM  
Blogger doolz said...

Doug, the Greater Victoria region is kind of a microcosm of Canadian politics. It's multiculti in that you can get good food from almost every culture, we don't have an equivalent of Surrey or Richmond like Vancouver, which are mostly homogeneous enclaves of immigrants.

The Victoria downtown is no longer charming, but still has character. There are a lot of street characters, who perform free street theatre, for instance. There is a fairly large segment of hippies who are highly visible when protesting (but nothing compared to the zombietime portrayals of San Francisco), but mostly the Capital region gets its slightly Leftward overtone from having such a large proportion of the populace Government workers.

If you go North on the Island, it's more logging, fishing and mill towns, which are turning more towards tourism. It's that or shut down for places like Port Alice (which will probably turn into a ghost town). And if you've been on the Gulf Islands, you've probably seen that most of the houses are owned by eccentric artists, most BC'ers can't afford to buy there.

It's still a pretty decent place to live, I have no major complaints.

4/17/2006 07:56:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Eight dead in falafel cafe suicide bomb this morning in Tel Aviv. This one isn't Hamas, tho. Nosiree, this one is the other guys, al Fatah. FoxNews running video. Young folks wandering around bloody. Ambulance crews frantic, running to and fro, victim to victim. People, arms outstretched towards the heavens, screaming, shouting. The Death Cult, feeding.

4/17/2006 08:03:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Doolz,
Sure,
Since Victoria has better weather than Hawaii.
...along with Port Angeles in the USA.
I used to know what we called it in Climatology:
20 inches of Rain, I remember.
Love Victoria.
Wife's French Friend does too.
Uh Oh!

4/17/2006 08:03:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Bud 8:03 AM,
Ingraham says we've lost more in Iraq so far in April than all of March?
SHIT!

4/17/2006 08:06:00 AM  
Blogger doolz said...

I'm pretty sure the loons are still around. The salmon runs (especially the Fraser) were getting to be rather small back in the 1990's, and I think that the allowable catch was reduced (and the season shortened) in order to stop stocks from completely failing. We didn't want to have a situation like the Grand Banks cod fishery in Newfoundland, which has still not recovered.

Meanwhile, the mayor of Tofino was on the CBC a few weeks ago talking about a bear aware program. Apparently there are certain people who need to be told not to put their garbage out the night before when they live smack dab in the middle of prime black bear habitat.

4/17/2006 08:06:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

bragging about killing women & children, that takes real men, doug.

Trouble is they have been both killing and bragging, for decades.

The Israelis now want to release a killer and braggard in echange for a spy. Who'da guessed.

The political news is worse than bad.
Mr Bush has tanked, his Immigration Policy a shambles,
the Iraqi War a quagmire, ten major cities in need of a Summer Security Offensive while Mr al-Jaafari still stands tall.
Social Security is unreformed and no longer mentioned.
Medicare payouts for perscription drugs may hold Florida for the Jeb and the team, but the Program will be bankrupting the Federal's future budgets.

Robert Kaplan of "Imperial Grunt" fame called the Bush Admin incompetent, today.

Dick Morris compared him to Jimmy Carter, today. Second time in two weeks I've seen THAT, Mr Bush compared to Jimmy.
The first time was, as I recall, written by Mark Styen.

Mr Barone believes the Republicans can hold the House in November, barely. Maybe a 5 seat majority.

Oh, and Iran, it's enriching away.

As Mr Steyn said yesterday
Manana is not a policy

4/17/2006 08:08:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Mr Barone believes the Republicans can hold the House in November, barely. Maybe a 5 seat majority."
---
So he doesn't watch Football?
Doesn't know the fate of the Prevent Defense?
Bring on that Lesbian/Italian Professor!
We need some Balls!
(I predicted this, on the morning of 9-11, unfortunately)
...I know, banned from Belmont.
Apple and Tree,
etc

4/17/2006 08:14:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

The only thing worse than a stalled DC is a DC going full speed ahead the wrong way.

4/17/2006 08:20:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

steve at threatswatch had an item
"UN Commission on Disarmament elects Iran as deputy for Asian nations"
which took, even me, aback.

Read his summary of the Event

Read it yourselves, if you wish.

4/17/2006 08:22:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

better would be a DC going in the right direction:
Bring back FDR!

4/17/2006 08:23:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Rat,
"Steve," aka USMC_Ret, no longer posts here.
I will not read.
Not Correct.

4/17/2006 08:26:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

stalled is one thing, buddy, but rolling backwards down the hill, the brakes not yet catching...

It's cause for concern, a change of course or perhaps some new crew, is due.

4/17/2006 08:28:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

You are saying the steve speaks in selfserving falsehoods, or that since he quit the Club he's persona non grata?

4/17/2006 08:30:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Mr Roggio is no longer affiliated with that site, perhaps another reference by default?

4/17/2006 08:32:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

We used to go uphill backwards in a Model A on my Bros friend's Ranch.
Maybe that would work?
Gravity feed gas, ya know.
Bush thinks we run on "Good Vibes."
aka,
"Compassion"
Crap #2

4/17/2006 08:32:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"Bring back FDR!" --what, prop a coffin up behind the POTUS lecturn?

I can see the headlines, "Presidewnt Continues To Have No Comment".

4/17/2006 08:32:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

8:32 AM
Wow,
Didn't know that.
Will be sure to check it out.
... and keep in touch w/ "Steve"

4/17/2006 08:34:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Always liked "Steve," made some stupid comment about an EMP post he made, even tho I know nothing about effects of EMP.
...Make lots of stupid comments.
Oh, well.

4/17/2006 08:40:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

I was going to post on the rise of emotivism as an effect of German romanticism and irrationalism, and how one can distinguish emotivists online by their fondness for CAPITAL LETTERS and exclamation points!!!, but then I came across Wikipedia's definition of emotivism and realized I had nothing to add:

Emotivists suggest that they [ethical statements] are expressions of emotional response, desire and aversion, approval and disapproval: under this view, the statement "Killing is wrong," for example, can be paraphrased as "Boo to killing!" or "Down with killing and killers!". Statements such as "helping people is good" can be paraphrased as "yay helping people!"

That, my friends, is perfect.

4/17/2006 08:46:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

yay, helping people by killing them is wrong!!!

4/17/2006 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Boo to killing!"
I CAN DIG THAT!
(after we wipe out the bad guys)

4/17/2006 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Font styles are extremely expressive. If you don't have 'em, what's left but CAPITALS???? They're inversely effective, though.

4/17/2006 09:04:00 AM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

No, there's still Bold..

4/17/2006 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

Aristedes,

Is it possible that this medium is inherently sterile. To express opinion in this medium requires a different tack.

As online collaboration has found.. You gotta have a picture to actually see if they are bulls***ting you.

4/17/2006 09:31:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Don't forget italic.

4/17/2006 09:32:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

"As Mr Steyn said yesterday
Manana is not a policy"

And hoy is not an option.

So Steyn, poor man, is going to have to keep churning out pieces that are variations on the theme of, "Just do it already! Please?"

But he won't be lonely. He has the the guys at the Weekly Standard to keep him company in the years ahead. And misery (disgruntlement, heartbreak, etc.) does love company.

4/17/2006 10:10:00 AM  
Blogger doolz said...

There's something up with blogger, so that italicized portions of posts show up on my browser (Opera 8.52) as "/*.

I find it very expressive. Bold seems to work fine.

4/17/2006 10:34:00 AM  
Blogger Cardozo Bozo said...

Hand built AMD, of course. All the cool kids do it.

http://flickr.com/photos/bmcusick/117800756/

Don't be fooled by the picture. It was not that neat the day before, and sure isn't today either. At the moment:

Coffee mugs (3)
Civilization: Call to Power CDs (2)
Civilization 4 CD
Watch (2)
Cellphone, wallet, keys, etc.
Essay printouts for editing (2)
Tax paperwork
ASUS Motherboard box, which I really need to ship to my Dad since its his and has all his drivers in it.

4/17/2006 10:42:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

Aristides, meanwhile, will be searching, magnifying glass in hand, for the Will to Power of the Bush administration, which is SURELY there, somewhere.

4/17/2006 10:43:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

desert rat, 8:08 AM

"The Israelis now want to release a killer and braggard in echange for a spy. Who'da guessed."

You did, of course!

4/17/2006 11:21:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

allen said...
And coming soon to a southwest border town near you,

Palestinians: Tel Aviv Bombing Legitimate
AP - 56 minutes ago
TEL AVIV, Israel - A Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up outside a fast-food restaurant in a bustling area of Tel Aviv during the Passover holiday Monday, killing eight other people and wounding at least 49 in the deadliest Palestinian attack in more than a year. The Palestinians' new Hamas leaders called the attack a legitimate response to Israeli "aggression." Israel said it held Hamas ultimately responsible ? even though a different militant group, Islamic Jihad, claimed responsibility ? and would respond "as necessary."

Of course, we must all remember to respond proportionately, compassionately.

Mətušélaḥ, I'm wishing you well.

4/17/2006 11:24:00 AM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen, 8:03 AM

"The Death Cult, feeding."

May I say again,

"It is tough being an Arab warrior, quite apart from being an oxymoron. The unfathomable protozoan impotence must be unbearable. Week-in, week-out, the son of Mohammed must endure the ringing harangue of the imam to go forth in the name of Allah and rid the caliphate of the offspring of pigs and monkeys (these would be the dirty, dimwitted, conniving, cunning Jews). Yet, for 48 years, despite the best efforts of Allah and the promises of Gabriel, he and his brothers have been unceremoniously driven from every battlefield by the self-same cowardly, yet vicious, miscreants; invariably reduced to seeking sanctuary behind the skirts of their ululating women and unkempt wailing children. Yes, the life of the proud Arab warrior is tough. One can readily appreciate the sympathy of the good Doctor and her Department of State."

4/17/2006 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger Matthew said...

I made some comments and posted pictures from my current and old blogging environment here. My stuff has always been a lot less cluttered.

4/17/2006 11:49:00 AM  
Blogger mdmhvonpa said...

Certainly no red wine without a good 120oz cowboy ribeye ... at 0630 hours.

4/17/2006 11:58:00 AM  
Blogger Alexis said...

Ms. O'Connor smokes. That suggests she'll die a lot sooner than I will.

4/17/2006 12:16:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Hard out there for a pimp, Allen.

4/17/2006 12:34:00 PM  
Blogger Alexis said...

I wonder what's going to happen when enemies of outfits like Hamas cross the same moral boundaries they do. If Hamas thinks attacking civilians is legitimate, what would happen if neigborhoods voting for Hamas were systematically bombed? Or Hamas legislators systematically killed?

One essential paradox of the electoral victory for Hamas is that America gains a nuclear deterrent if we are nuked by al-Qaeda. That is, Hamas gave out candy on September 11 to celebrate the genocidal attack. So, an elected Hamas government can be seen to have some presumptive responsibility for any attack against the United States in the future, especially if it is nuclear.

Given that "mutual assured destruction" doesn't work if our enemies desire mushroom clouds, a nuclear attack against us would put us into a bind. Either we would retaliate with nuclear weapons (or their incendiary area bombing equivalents) or we would find our nuclear deterrent broken.

The possibility of nuking Gaza and Nablus should be considered in the event of a nuclear attack on the United States, especially since these targets would (unlike Iran) have the ironical advantage of a terrorist government and a population supporting that terrorist government.

I take Ahmadinejad's statements in favor of destroying Israel at face value. I think he means it (although he seems to be fighting to the last Palestinian so far). I'm not so sure Mr. Ahmadinejad quite realizes that databases exist cataloguing every single radical cleric and mosque preacher, and every member of the Basij. His ruling class is not quite so safe as he would like to think it is.

4/17/2006 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger geoffgo said...

Alexis,

Prove it!

4/17/2006 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

dan, 12:34 PM

"U.S. Condemns Tel Aviv Bombing"

"It is a despicable act of terror for which there is no excuse or justification," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said."

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/mideast_conflict

Right you are, Mr. McClellan. After you finish with the Palestinians, would you be so kind as to have a talk to the Departments of State and Treasury. Like some generals, they don't seem to be singing with the choir.

On the 7th of April, the Department of State, at the close of business, announced plans to support the "Palestinian people" through extra-governmental channels.

On the 14th of April, the Department of Treasury made a similar, although far more convoluted statement.

It seems that the Bush administration has found a way to support the sponsors of terror (Palestinian voters) without supporting terrorists (the PA Hamas government). Or have I missed something?

4/17/2006 12:54:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

yeah Allen, you are missing something. It is something which you abhor many others doing - that is condemning a whole group of people for the actions of a few.

4/17/2006 01:37:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Allen - it's ludicrous. But perhaps US is concerned about too wide-open an opportunity for the Tehran/Moscow/Beijing axis to take hold and displace the US utterly. That would definitely not be a step in the right direction either. I doubt any kind of detente or rapprochment is actually in the works between the HAMAS nexus and the US, in any case. Pretty shocking and gratfying that the EU stopped their funding (or have they?), though, eh?

4/17/2006 01:44:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Allen, your "Arab warrior" post reminded of these lines from GK Chesterton's "Lepanto" (about another great Muslim invasion of the West):

They rush in red and purple from the red clouds of the morn,

From the temples where the yellow gods shut up their eyes in scorn;

They rise in green robes roaring

from the green hells of the sea

Where fallen skies and evil hues and eyeless creatures be,

On them the sea-valves cluster and the grey sea-forests curl,

Splashed with a splendid sickness, the sickness of the pearl;

They swell in sapphire smoke out of the blue cracks of the ground,—

They gather and they wonder and give worship to Mahound.

And he saith, "Break up the mountains where the hermit-folk can hide,

And sift the red and silver sands lest bone of saint abide....

4/17/2006 01:51:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

ash,

No, I abhor a factual vacuum.

If someone wants to say that in his opinion the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was inexcusably negligent, have at it. If on the other hand, a person says or implies that the attack was a purposeful, wanton act, perpetrated by the government of Israel, then, I expect a high level of proof. When someone says that Israel is responsible for more American deaths than is Iran, well, tell it to the Marines!

As to the Palestinians, Hamas was overwhelmingly elected. Moreover, every poll done of the "Palestinian people" indicates overwhelming support for murder-suicide. Now, are there Palestinians opposed to terrorism, yes, I'll bet there are. But, wars are not fought because of the basic decency of some number of adversary’s populace (Who knows how many kindly grandmas were incinerated in Dresden?) No, wars are fought to defeat the enemy's homicidal tendencies, minority opinion, notwithstanding. If in the process of defeating Hamas, the innocent Palestinians you reference are injured, they will be in my prayers.

4/17/2006 02:14:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Nothing like a tightened definition.

4/17/2006 02:17:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen,

Lepanto

Salamis. Those were the days my friend.

4/17/2006 02:18:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

dan,

(or have they)

While many EU politicians have the well remarked capacity to lie out of both sides of their mouths at the same time, as I read it, European governments are using the same backdoor tricks as we. The Russians, on the other hand, seem openly supportive to Hamas.

4/17/2006 02:23:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

2:18 PM
Torpedo Sandwiches

4/17/2006 02:33:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"On the 7th of April, the Department of State, at the close of business, announced plans to support the "Palestinian people" through extra-governmental channels."
---
SO?
We're going to raise the standard of living of Latin American Peasants and Drug Dealers through the channel of the American Working Class tm.
Power to the (other)People!
WSJ Uber Alles!

4/17/2006 02:39:00 PM  
Blogger The Apologist said...

I've just finished Claire Berlinski’s Menace in Europe, Bruce Bawer’s While Europe Slept, and Lorenzo Vidino’s Al Qaeda in Europe. Reading Steyn on a regular basis isn’t helping my sense of optimism any either. So here’s my question for anyone who has any thoughts on it.

At what point do we begin to treat Europe like a developing enemy? Do we seed Western Europe with agents for intelligence and sabatoge ops. to be carried out years from now? Do we begin co-opting (bribing) EU politicians to gum up the works of the state? How long before we begin to make plans to effectively isolate them economically and who do we get to replace them as a market? India? Southern Africa? Has anyone read or heard anyone talking about this very real possibility?

It seems in a long war we need long term plans. My suspicion is that our intel guys work too closely with Euro intel to be effective sleepers. I don’t know, I have a lot of thoughts on this, but has anyone else given any thought to our treating Europe as an antagonist instead of trying to woo them back toward a sane recognition of their interests.

4/17/2006 02:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

And he saith, I may be a Hermit, but I ain't no crab.
(Crabby, Yes)
...or, Si!
Crabby, See?

4/17/2006 02:43:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I just finished having my morning movement.
We should treat everybody else like we do the results of an Enema.

4/17/2006 02:46:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Alexis 12:39 PM would be more fun than merely flushing them.

4/17/2006 02:52:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen,

Rauch and "Jihad"

No disrespect, but removing jihad from Islam would be the equivalent of removing Sinai from Judaism or Easter from Christianity.

Looking at all the hot spots on a world map, I have the impression that Islam is not on Mr. Rauch's wavelength. Moreover, there does seem some historical correlation between Islamic quiescence and major military defeat; that is, Islam comes to peaceful terms following a "Come to Jesus" meeting.

4/17/2006 02:58:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I think the real enemy we face is a religion. It is not Islam. It is the cult of suicide bombing. Suicide bombing in and of itself has become the real deity of the enemy. Sure, Muslims who lionize suicide bombing may claim to pray to one god, but their principal deity is not Allah, but suicide bombing itself.

Alexis

4/17/2006 03:04:00 PM  
Blogger Asher Abrams said...

doolz,

Great response. It was a rhetorical question, of course (since it's hard to coherently disagree with someone who's not coherent to begin with), but great response.

4/17/2006 03:25:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

LINCOLN TO A GENERAL

Executive Mansion,
Washington, D.C., January 26, 1863.

Major General Hooker:

General, -- I have placed you at the head of the Army of the Potomac. Of course I have done this upon what appears to me to be sufficient reasons. And yet I think it best for you to know that there are some things in regard to which I am not quite satisfied with you. I believe you to be a brave and skillful soldier, which, of course, I like. I also believe you do not mix politics with your profession, in which you are right. You have confidence in yourself, which is a valuable if not an indispensable quality. You are ambitious, which, within reasonable bounds, does good rather than harm. But I think that during General Burnside's command of the army you have taken counsel of your ambition and thwarted him as much as you could, in which you did a great wrong both to the country and to a most meritorious and honorable brother officer. I have heard in such way as to believe it of your recently saying, that both the army and the Government needed a dictator. Of course it was not for this, but in spite of it, that I have given you the command. Only those generals who gain successes can set up as dictators. What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk the dictatorship. The Government will support you to the utmost of its ability, which is neither more nor less than it has done and will do for all commanders. I much fear the spirit you have aided to infuse into the army of criticizing their commander and withholding confidence from him will now turn upon you. I shall assist you as far as I can to put it down. Neither you nor Napoleon, if he were alive again, could get any good out of an army while such a spirit prevails in it. And now, beware of rashness! beware of rashness! but with energy and sleepless vigilance go forward and give us victories.

Yours, very truly,

A. Lincoln.

4/17/2006 03:29:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

shoshanna,
Agreed

4/17/2006 03:32:00 PM  
Blogger doolz said...

Thanks shoshanna and doug, although I doubt I should get much credit for taking down a fundamentally unserious person who takes herself so seriously. I also strongly feel that intervention is needed in Darfur, but I'm pessimistic of it ever happening. The South Sudanese experienced similar horrors for over 20 years and nobody came to help them (they had advantages of terrain over the Darfurians).

4/17/2006 03:44:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Gen. Hooker, of course, replaced Gen. Burnside after B generaled against Lee's great victory at Fredericksburg. Gen. Hooker then generaled the Union during the following showdown, Lee and Jackson's greatest victory, Chancellorsville.

4/17/2006 03:54:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

I and mat, believe the Israelis attacked the USS Liberty, deliberately.
He said it was justified.
That the US was spying on Israel, from International waters.
Read the whole thread.

The Israeli Government said the USS Liberty was misidentified as an Egyptian frieghter, flying the Stars and Stripes.
The Israelis made repeated attacks against the USS Liberty, while flying the Stars & Stripes.

You never, allen, posted a link to your story line. I have twice. The Citation for the Commanders Medal of Honor is enough for me. Pasted that in yesterday.

You a free to disagree, but apologize for telling the inconvientent truth, never.

The Jewish people seem to carry grudges for millenium, me, I just go back to '67. You see, I believe the crew, not the whitewash.

The Marines in Beirut were killed by Iranian proxies, Hezzbollah, not the Iranian armed forces, just as the Hostages were taken by "students", not representitives of the Government.
That is the way the US told the story, then, I'm stickin' to it, now.

I have no hatred for Jews or Israelis, just an appreciation of history and the strange bedfellows and enemies it produces.

If the US were to attack Iran, preemptively, how many of the Iranian people would turn against US?
People that could be proUS or, more importantly, antiMullah

4/17/2006 04:09:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Zaius said...

Doug, Shoshanna,

Agreed. 

Will the highways on the Internet become more few?
- US President George W. Bush (Concord, New Hampshire, January 29, 2000)

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." —Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

We cannot let terrorists hold this nation hostile or hold our allies hostile.
- US President George W. Bush (2000 in Des Moines, Iowa)

"Then I went for a run with the other dog and just walked. And I started thinking about a lot of things. I was able to - I can't remember what it was. Oh, the inaugural speech, started thinking through that." -George W. Bush, in a pre-inaugural interview with U.S. News & World Report

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

"We're concerned about AIDS inside our White House - make no mistake about it." -George W. Bush, Feb. 7, 2001

"There's no such thing as legacies. At least, there is a legacy, but I'll never see it." -George W. Bush, speaking to Catholic leaders at the White House, Jan. 31, 2001

This very week in 1989, there were protests in East Berlin and in Leipzig. By the end of that year, every communist dictatorship in Central America had collapsed.
- US President George W. Bush (November 6, 2003 in Washington, D.C.)

Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream.
- US President George W. Bush (October 2000)

I think we agree, the past is over.
- US President George W. Bush (May 10, 2000)


U.S. firm tied to nuclear-arms black market

4/17/2006 04:10:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I VOTED FOR BUSH TWICE

The first time because he was not Al Gore. When his contract came up for renewal, I wanted to let him go, but not to replace him with Mister Mrs. John Heinz, RIP, Kerry (Has there ever been a time in recorded history where a widow hyphenated her new married name with her dead husband?) I have a personal grudge against Kerry and I did not like him and I think he was too cautious to make a good president. There was no question that George Walker Bush would never have been nominated if his name had been George Walker. But nepotism seems to be locked and loaded into the American political system. After 9/11, when I saw the face of George Bush sitting in that kindergarten with Andy Card giving him The News, I got sick, feeling the man was not up to muster. That evaporated when he grabbed the microphone on the tower heap and solidified in my mind when he threw a strike at Yankee Stadium.

NOW I AM NOT SORRY, I AM PROFOUNDLY WORRIED

It is not just Iran, contemptuously double daring the US to do something, nor the hapless chaos in Iraq. It is not Hugo Chavez boldly going where no Latin leader dared since Daniel Ortega, but with mucho petro dinero. It is not China economically occupying both ends of the Panama Canal and linking its future to a global economic link indifferent to US interests. The steady erosion of any US coalition in Europe continues. It was somewhat amusing, but no longer. In Southeast Asia where a stalwart ally Australia is aligning itself as an Asian country, there is not much good news. And Islam, the HIV of religion, continues to spread the infection. It is a smug thug, the KGB G-8 Czar of Transparent Soul remaking a new Russia/Soviet State. I am worried big time. The model is broken. It is not working. It is obvious. Something has to change.

4/17/2006 04:14:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Zaius said...

Rather than eliminating a major cause of right-wing extremism, the collapse of Communism triggered its resurgence throughout the Northern Hemisphere. Not since the Third Reich had such a virulent and enraged Right made its presence felt in so many countries. Tracing the rise of Adolf Hitler, George Mosse observed that “one of the Nazis’ principle victories before seizing power “ was that they forced centrists and leftists to “argue on terrain occupied by the racist right.” European and American neofascists posing as right-wing populists could claim a similar victory half a century after World War II. Even when they lost elections and were not formally part of the government, far Right politicians had a significant influence on public policy. To a great extent, their scapegoating rhetoric framed key debates and shaped the post-Cold War political agenda.

Fascism is on the march again. No simple formula, however, can predict how strong contemporary fascist movements (or their functional equivalents) will become. A vibrant democratic culture is not conductive to the growth of fascism. But unchecked corporate power has, to a significant degree, stultified the democratic process, and fascist groups in Europe and the United States feed upon this malaise. British scholar Roger Griffin likened fascism to “a supervirus which constantly evolves to accommodate changes in its habitat, producing a wide variety of new strains resistant to traditional prophylactics.”

…neofascist groups, in turn, were symptomatic of a much wider authoritarian malaise, according to Theodore Adorno, whose mid-century diagnosis retains its relevance in the fin de siecle 1990’s. Adorno viewed “the continued existence of National Socialism within democracy [as] more threatening than the continued existence of fascist tendencies against democracy.” His studies suggest that the potential for fascism was embedded in the fabric of mass consumer culture, which typically engenders weak personalities with high dependency needs that could easily be manipulated by commercial advertisers and political demagogues. Seen from this perspective, fascism has persisted as a permanent possibility in advanced industrial societies, including post-Cold War Germany.


Martin A. Lee .The Beast Reawakens : Fascism's Resurgence from Hitler's Spymasters to Today's Neo-Nazi Groups Right-Wing Extremists. Little, Brown Company 1997. Pgs389,391

4/17/2006 04:26:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

I always keep my Wayfarers on, with the retinal projectors constantly displaying about 20 screens. I use the artificial depth setting to fly among the screen galaxy to drill into areas of interest.

I always have my Brass Knuckles keyboard fidgeting in one hand, usually in my pocket if I'm in public. It's a rounded hex cylinder, with 8-point rockers keys along one side for each finger, and the thumb gyro control key (the joy stick for flying between screens in X-space). It takes a couple of days to learn to type this way, but it's like playing the piano ... you're always happy you can do it.

4/17/2006 04:28:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

that is wild, tony.
almost sounds like the science fiction of my youth.
20 screens, that would make my stomach a bit queezy, I'd venture.

4/17/2006 04:38:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Saw on FOX News that the Iraqi Parliment was almost called into Session, but at the last moment the Shia anti Mr Al-Jaafari that had promised to "break away" from the UIA fell back into line.

The leadership of Mr Sistani holding firm?
or fear of Mr al-Sadr's militia?

Mr al-Jaafari remains the UIA's choice, regardless of what others may like or think, at least for a few more days.

4/17/2006 04:54:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Darfur update (instapundit link). Russia and China back the Janjaweed against Britain and USA ?

4/17/2006 04:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony,
Are you for real?
(in a VR sort of way at least)
If so, I'll have to show my son and he can ask you for particulars to get similarly outfitted.
I'm already nuts, so no need.

4/17/2006 05:02:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

for want of a nail, the Nation was lost

It is Worldwide, active & asyemetric.

War or retreat?

Manana, siempre manana.
tenamos basta de eso

4/17/2006 05:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

There have been sunnier Easters.
(got a page full of censored posts so as not to wear out my welcome at the Bush Booster Club.)

4/17/2006 05:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

OK,
It needs no further wear to qualify.

4/17/2006 05:12:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Andrew C. McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor writes in the National Review about more of those Iraqi documents that are being translated.
He says the docs make the case for a considerable connection between aQ and Saddam.
But the President's Team will not make the case.

It is interesting if a reader needs either proof or validation that there was a connection.
Iraq Is the War on Terror
As the administration stays curiously mum, the evidence that it was right mounts.

4/17/2006 05:13:00 PM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

I too think the Israelis attacked the Liberty deliberately. At the time they (Israelis) were preparing to assault the Golan Heights and Syria--they didn't want this known, as it was their time to roll, and were afraid an intercept might bring pressure to bear on them to stop the assault. That's my take. In 73 US shipped massive amounts of equipment to them when they needed it.

4/17/2006 05:15:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

Rat:
If you know something about the real reason Israel pulled a sneak attack the on US, let's hear it.

Same with you bobal,
But your theory doesn't make sense.

4/17/2006 05:35:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Amen,
The Liberty was accidently hit, like Gerald Bull accidently getting a hole in his head. I hate it when you call Israel on something and get branded an anti-semite Jew hating red neck republican bible thumping red state cro magnum something or other. That is one good thing about being English, you can say anything about the queen, the food etc. etc. but there is no English word for being anti-English.

4/17/2006 05:38:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Acting, premptively, against a percieved threat.
That is a Strategic Policy supported by many Posters, here at Belmont.
The Israelis made a strategic choice, that in the "long war" has made little difference in US Support.

The First Crusades of the 21st Century are in full cascade.

4/17/2006 05:40:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Either that or the IDF was made up of incompetent idiots and fools.

That was not the case, then or now.

4/17/2006 05:42:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I have a theory. It was the longest "accidental" attack in the history of US naval history, almost an hour and a half. the theory is the obvious, someone in Israeli intelligence, maybe a rogue, maybe not wanted the Liberty shut down. Shoot first and ask questions later.

4/17/2006 05:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

2164th,
That's not your problem.
It's just that you don't hang on to the good vibes of the trash heap and the strike long enough.
Stay the course.

4/17/2006 05:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Your 5:38, that is.

4/17/2006 05:49:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

And I do not want to be-labor the point, but in 1967 from RAF Lakenheath a flight of US Phantom FR's had the stars and bars painted over and were flow to Israel. There was no mis-identifcation there and there was none on The Liberty. Please do not insult the men who are there and common sense. It is what it is.

4/17/2006 05:49:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

sorry that was from RAF Bentwaters and NOT from Lakenheath.

4/17/2006 05:50:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

and of course the were F4's and not FR's and I blame that on a rather fine Gran Reserva Rioja of which I offer no apologies.

4/17/2006 05:53:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

desert rat, 4:09 PM

Yesterday, you made statements that I asked to validate. I suggested use of the U.S. Naval record. You obvioulsy did that. When it did not substantiate you, you then obfuscated by asking me for a citation that would disprove you. That is not how debate works.

When you make a statement in debate, science, or anywhere else where rules are recognized by adults, it your responsibility to prove your facts. You can say, for instance, that Mars is populated by small, red-furred, three legged rodents that eat dirt and crap gold nuggets. If you wish to be believed by serious people, you have to prove what you say. It is not the responsibility of others to disprove you. It is precisely this inability to reason rationally, utilized so effortlessly by so many folks today, that explains the mega-industry of conspiracy theory; any fool can have one, and any number of fools will believe it.

But I waste time. You see, unbeknownst to you, you have answered my objection. You would not know of a so called "white-wash" if you were not also aware of the official naval record, exonorating Israel from purposeful wrong-doing. So come on, just tell the audiance what the report said. I know everyone is on pins and needles, just waiting for you to tell the truth. It will be good for your soul.

Now, you say, "The Jewish people seem to carry grudges for millenium". Wow, and you know this, how? Oh, yeah, just an opinion, right; no need to trouble yourself with facts, right? Well, you haven't yet, so, why start now, right?

4/17/2006 05:55:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

If i recall my History Channel, the USA, Russia, UN, et all were furiously trying to stop the war, and UN have given a cease-fire date to which all parties had agreed. The Golan assault was pushed hard and fast to take the objective before the cease-fire. If Liberty was in the way, well, as rat points out, things are as they are. Who knows but what she wasn't stuck out there by the LBJ brain-trust just for either stopping the Golan attack, or proving that US didn't wish it? LBJ was already embroiled in Nam, and starting to skew weird--who the hell will ever know?

4/17/2006 05:59:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Look Churchill ordered the sinking of the French Fleet because he did not want it to fall into the hands of the Nazis. That is war. He made a tough decision and accepted the consequences. Quit trying to twist what happened. It was a call made in the heat of a war for survival. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe not, but US military men died serving their country.

4/17/2006 06:04:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Desert, Doug, so nice to see youse. almost sounds like the science fiction of my youth.

It's not fiction if it's just technology evolution, same as it ever was.

Unlike airplanes, we haven't hit the limit of the human interface yet. The Wayfarers are sci-fi, the X-space view was on the apple web site ten years ago.

As Doug points out, VirtualReality was the Next Big Thing years and years ago. So many years ago that it probably works by now.

3-D navigation of Info, seems only natural. Right?

4/17/2006 06:06:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

From abu aardvark:

I was surprised to see an unexpected American official show up on al-Jazeera the other day: Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. Kimmitt, the former spokesman for the American military in Iraq and now deputy director for strategy and plans at CENTCOM, went on al-Jazeera to talk about "the future of the American military presence in the region."


Mark Kimmitt and Ahmed Mansour in the al-Jazeera studio, April 5, 2006

Kimmitt didn't just go on al-Jazeera... he did the show No Limits, probably the most hostile environment for an American military official of any of al-Jazeera's programmes. The host, Ahmed Mansour, not only has a well-deserved reputation as one of the toughest interviewers in the Arab media. He is also one of the most broadly anti-American in his political outlook, and - of most direct relevance - was the correspondent on the ground in Fallujah in April 2004 . His reporting from Fallujah infuriated the American military and contributed to the early termination of that campaign. All of which makes Mansour's show a very interesting choice for Kimmitt's appearance.

(Indeed it does.)

4/17/2006 06:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wish the Pope would tell us how he really feels.
If only GWB would do that.
But then, it would be a different message whenever it conflicts with the Holy WSJ.

4/17/2006 06:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

6:06 PM,
But do you REALLY experience it or not???

4/17/2006 06:15:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Wait a minit. Doug asks: 6:06 PM,
But do you REALLY experience it or not???


Is this the Writing / Philosophy class, I forget what time it meets. It's Prof. Wretchard, right?

4/17/2006 06:21:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I thought maybe I had too much wine. I wish to revise and resubmit and have a little more.

4/17/2006 06:21:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

2164th, 5:38 PM

I ask the same of you as whit asked of those below.

I asked d'rat for a simple citation. How did that devolve into the rant you laid out? Oh, well, why ask?

"whit said, 5:35 PM

If you know something about the real reason Israel pulled a sneak attack the on US, let's hear it.

Same with you bobal,
But your theory doesn't make sense."

4/17/2006 06:23:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

6:06 PM,
But do you REALLY experience it or not???

HELL NO. Do I look like some kinda geek?

Do they have a bartender here? It's getting to be a bit of a dry argument. ... Makes squeaking noises, pointing to his neck, like the Tin Man in need of an oil can....

4/17/2006 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

shorter allen, be more concise, you lost me half way through your rant.
Tried as I might, just could make it to the end.

4/17/2006 06:26:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The second link had the Egyptian freighter story on it, allen.
You did not even look.

It is not up to me to retell the entire tale.

You will still miss the point.

The reaction to the attacks
as well as the length of the anamosity created by them.
That is the moral of this story.

Hell, my Lawyer is Jewish.

4/17/2006 06:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Well, Tony's tired of this, but ignoramus that I am, I'm just curious:
Is it agreed the Liberty was flying the flag, or no?

4/17/2006 06:33:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

desert rat,

"Hell, my Lawyer is Jewish."

Given your inability to argue rationally, I'd hold on to that lawyer.

4/17/2006 06:38:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Some things can never be settled to the point of removing the emotions from them. The best that can be done is to place the context. The context, and the players. LBJ was an inveterate game-player, and I've always thought of the Liberty incident as somehow flowing from that. Otherwise the communications would've prevented any such incident. You'd think.

4/17/2006 06:41:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Damn Texans!

4/17/2006 06:42:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

"The host, Ahmed Mansour, not only has a well-deserved reputation as one of the toughest interviewers in the Arab media. He is also one of the most broadly anti-American in his political outlook, and - of most direct relevance - was the correspondent on the ground in Fallujah in April 2004 . His reporting from Fallujah infuriated the American military and contributed to the early termination of that campaign."

What abu aardvark doesn't say is that the infuriation of the American military was beside the point. Scared the bejeezus out of the administration, which then decided to abort it.

4/17/2006 06:43:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Good thing Army, Delay, and some of those guys don't excercise their right to carry, what with all the Hatfield and McCoy stuff that's gone on down there:
Quite a bit of blood woulda been let about the time Newt departed.

As it was, B-1 Bob became the first officially confirmed victim of the illegal vote while the internecine stuff carried on.
Now the B..... rotten commie sister's been voted in by the "citizens" of LA.

4/17/2006 06:48:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

LBJ reportedly complained that the NY Times buried the Story.
Damned MSM.

Read all the stories and perspectives, allen, believe what you want, don't matter to me.

If what I believe matters to you...

4/17/2006 06:48:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Buddy,

The first time you dinged this meme, I thought it was just me, so I resisted typing ....

Now you harmonize again on the still unheard chord - Tonkin Gulf - this was the mirror chord, the opposite . Tonkin was the key unstruck but heard round the world, Liberty was the key that was struck but stays unheard.

Picking individual notes and chords out of the unending symphonies of war. It's all bad.

None of us are FOR WAR, right? We're all agreed on that. Just discussing how much war is necessary to end war, at least in our particular neighborhood.

Smile when you say that.

4/17/2006 06:54:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

What do you BELIEVE to be the answer to my flag question, 'Rat?
If I was a lawyer, I'd call that "determinative" or some such about whether it was an accident or not, apart from all the rest.

4/17/2006 06:55:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Trish,
But according to Gen Conway, once they had begun, they considered it a serious mistake to stop in the middle, right?
Bennet had a Post Link that I remembered reading at the time.
Straight from the horse's mouth.

4/17/2006 07:01:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug, 6:33 PM

The USS Liberty was, on 8 June 1967, flying the American ensign. It was repeatedly attacked by the armed forces of Israel. The American crew, as always, behaved with conspicuous bravery. These facts were never in question. What is in question is whether the Liberty was purposefully and wantonly attacked by Israel and, if so, according to what motive.

As to the flag, do recall, the American and Israeli experience with Muslim warriors at Fallujah and Jenin, for instance, where "white" flags of surrender were conspicuously displayed and then abandoned, duplicitously. Because a vehicle of any kind has a red cross, red crescent, or another distinguishing mark, when operated by Arab warriors, does not mean that is its purpose.

At the time of the attack, the Israeli air force and army were in the process of destroying an Egyptian army some 15 - 20 miles distant.

The Egyptian navy was believed to be working the area off the Sinai, in 1967.

The USS Liberty was a refitted cargo vessel, purposely maintaining that facade as cover.

The US Navy Sixth Fleet was operating the area. Not Fleet command, not the Egyptians, and not the Israelis were given a heads up about the presence of the USS Liberty.

The government of the United States exonerated Israel from any taint of purposeful wrong-doing.

______________________________________________________________________

___2164th, "hate it when you call Israel on something and get branded an anti-semite Jew hating red neck republican bible thumping red state cro magnum something or other."

Say what? I take it that this statement was given with the same considered forethought as desert rat's, "The Jewish people seem to carry grudges for millennium."

4/17/2006 07:12:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

"But according to Gen Conway, once they had begun, they considered it a serious mistake to stop in the middle, right?"

Right. Serious mistake. I'm sure that at that point, Conway was furiously frustrated and incredulous.

4/17/2006 07:12:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Trish:6:43 … of most direct relevance - was the correspondent on the ground in Fallujah in April 2004 . His reporting from Fallujah infuriated the American military and contributed to the early termination of that campaign."

What abu aardvark doesn't say is that the infuriation of the American military was beside the point. Scared the bejeezus out of the administration, which then decided to abort it.

Wretchard: April, 2004 – Gradually, the Marines will infiltrate Fallujah until the enemy is paralyzed. More than likely the press will interpret these indirect tactics as proof that Americans are afraid to advance or declare that the Marines have been pinned down. Never mind. The job at hand is to win an overwhelming victory at the lowest cost whatever its impact may be on the ratings. It is war, not entertainment.
Operation Valiant Resolve, Fallujah, April 5, 2004

4/17/2006 07:13:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug,

Sixth Fleet,

Oh, just a little something else think about. Why did not the Fleet scramble to the defense of the USS Liberty?

Although it was not by a long shot the longest naval battle in history, as suggested by 2164th, it was of sufficient duration that fighters could have come to the aid of Liberty in minutes.

Oh, yeah, how silly of me. Of course, now I SEE, Admiral McCain was part of the Jooooish conspiracy that authorized and then "white-washed" the attack.

4/17/2006 07:22:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

Thanks for the archive, tony.

4/17/2006 07:32:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Allen,
I have no idea what was really going on, I just wonder if it is agreed it was flyng the flag in international waters.
If so, it would seem, something other than an accident happened, regardless of who was culpable for what.

4/17/2006 07:32:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

By Rajiv Chandrasekaran
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, September 13, 2004; Page A17
FALLUJAH, Iraq,Sept. 12 --

The outgoing U.S. Marine Corps general in charge of western Iraq said Sunday he opposed a Marine assault on militants in the volatile city of Fallujah in April and the subsequent decision to withdraw from the city and turn over control to a security force of former Iraqi soldiers.

4/17/2006 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Tony, the note was definitely in the minor key. Trying to point to the Fog of War, in an attempt to harmonize the discord, hoping the clash of symbols will signify a coda.

Tonkin Gulf, ahhhh...the two USN vessels *were* attacked, right? I never doubted it. The sailors, you know.

4/17/2006 07:46:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Marine assault on Fallujah in April ended abruptly after three days. Conway expressed displeasure at the order he received from Sanchez to cease offensive operations, a decision that culminated in the formation of the Fallujah Brigade.

"When you order elements of a Marine division to attack a city, you really need to understand what the consequences of that are going to be and not perhaps vacillate in the middle of something like that," he said. "Once you commit, you got to stay committed."

Noting that six Marines were killed and six wounded in those first three days, he added: "We were quite happy with the progress of the attack on the city. We thought we were sparing civilian lives everywhere and anywhere that availed itself to us. We thought we were going to be done in a few days. That's the Monday morning quarterbacking

4/17/2006 07:48:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug, 7:32 PM

Thanks for an imminently sensible response.

This conversation began to devolve with the statement, "Israel & Iran, both have attacked US assets, Israel has the higher direct body count of US dead." 6:57 AM

4/17/2006 07:49:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Is that flag question radioactive, or what?

4/17/2006 07:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Didn't see your post, Allen, I was ribbing Buddy.

4/17/2006 07:51:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Allen,
I wondered which one Aristedes might have thought was over the line!

4/17/2006 07:53:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen, 7:46 PM

Codetta?

4/17/2006 07:54:00 PM  

Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home


Powered by Blogger