Saturday, April 22, 2006

All about Mary McCarthy 2

In From the Cold has some opinions on Mary McCarthy's career. The key paragraph:

Equally interesting is her meteoric rise within the intelligence community. According to her bio, she joined the CIA as an analyst in 1984. Within seven years, she had rise to a Deputy NIO position, and reached full NIO status by 1994. To reach that level, she literally catapulted over dozens of more senior officers--and I'm guessing that her political connections didn't hurt. By comparison, I know a current NIO, with a resume and academic credentials more impressive than Ms. McCarthy's, who reached the position after more than 20 years of extraordinarily distinguished service. McCarthy's rapid advancement speaks volumes about how the Clinton Administration did business, and sheds new light on the intelligence failures that set the stage for 9-11. We can only wonder how many other political hacks climbed the intel food chain under Clinton--and remain in place to this day.

OK. It's an opinion. Then In From the Cold makes a prediction:

Within a few weeks, fired CIA officer Mary McCarthy will take her place in the pantheon of liberal heroes. Democratic politicians, left-leaning pundits and analysts in the drive-by media will hail her "courage" in exposing secret CIA prisons in eastern Europe, and providing that information to the Washington Post. There will almost certainly be a book and movie deal; I'm sure Joe Wilson's literary agent will be in touch, if he hasn't called already. However, timing for those media events will probably depend on whether Ms. McCarthy spends any time in jail for her "disclosures."

Which has already come true. The New York Times has a special on Mary McCarthy called Colleagues Say C.I.A. Analyst Played by Rules. You may have to go through registration to view it.

As a senior National Security Council aide for intelligence from 1996 to 2001, she was responsible for guarding some of the nations most sensitive secrets.

"We're talking about a person with great integrity who played by the book and, as far as I know, never deviated from the rules," said Steven Simon, a National Security Council aide in the Clinton administration who worked closely with Ms. McCarthy.

In the view of the Times, McCarthy was not somebody who 'rose meteorically' -- as In From the Cold believes -- but rather a hard working gal who rose by merit to the loftiest positions in intelligence.

Though she was a C.I.A. employee for more than 20 years, associates said, her early professional experience was not in the world of spying and covert operations. After a previous career that one former colleague said included time as a flight attendant, she earned a doctorate in history from the University of Minnesota. She worked for a Swiss company "conducting risk assessments for international businesses and banks," Ms. McCarthy wrote in a brief biography she provided to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, also called the 9/11 Commission. She testified before the commission in 2003. The biography notes that she once wrote "a book on the social history of Ghana."

Even after joining the C.I.A. in 1984, Ms. McCarthy, who was hired as intelligence analyst for Africa, was far from a covert operative. In the late 1980's, she was promoted to management, taking over as chief of the Central America and Caribbean section, though she had no previous experience in the region, said a former officer who worked with her.

But "By 1991, she was working as deputy to one of the agency's most senior analysts, Charles E. Allen, whose job as 'National Intelligence Officer for Warning' was to anticipate major national security threats. Ms. McCarthy took over the job from Mr. Allen in 1994 and moved to the Clinton White House two years later." Yet her competence is established in the next paragraph by a glowing comment from Rand Beers:

who at the time was Mr. Clinton's senior intelligence aide on the National Security Council, said he hired Ms. McCarthy to be his deputy. "Anybody who works for Charlie Allen and then replaces him has got to be good," said Mr. Beers, who went on to serve as an adviser to Mr. Kerry's campaign in 2004. She took over from Mr. Beers as the senior director for intelligence programs in 1998.

And Rand Beers turns out to be, according to this cached news article, John Kerry's foreign policy advisor while on campaign.

Washington, DC – Kerry Foreign Policy Advisor Rand Beers issued the following statement today: "John Kerry rejects any association with former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, an avowed anti-Semite whose views are totally deplorable. The world needs leaders who seek to bring people together, not drive them apart with hateful and divisive rhetoric."

He was was also, according to this Washington Post article (hat tip Riehl's World), adamantly opposed to OIF; believed that Afghanistan "was a job begun, then abandoned", and a believer in the primacy of multilateral and diplomatic effort in the War on Terror. The Post article closes in this way:

On a recent hot night, at 10 o'clock, Beers sat by an open bedroom window, wearing a T-shirt, his bare feet propped on a table.

Beers was on a three-hour conference call, the weekly Monday night foreign policy briefing for the campaign. The black, secure phone by his bedside was gone. Instead, there was a red, white and blue bumper sticker: "John Kerry -- President." The buzz of helicopters blew through the window. Since Sept. 11, 2001, it seemed, there were more helicopters circling the city. "And we need to return to that kind of diplomatic effort . . . ," Beers was saying, over the droning sound. His war goes on.

LOL Department

From the National Review:

If you want a good sense of where the media's mind is in the wake of the Mary McCarthy story, check this out. . It's an AP story about McCarthy's firing. Guess whose picture is at the top? Not McCarthy. Not Dana Priest. Not anybody involved in the story at all, actually. It's a picture of Scooter Libby -- who's not even mentioned in the article. I won't be surprised if they end up fixing it soon. But it's there now.

It was there when I checked. But then, maybe the stories are related in some way.

More ...

This is from the ABC: Will CIA Firing Cloud Public Window on Government? Some See Media's Watchdog Function at Risk

To supporters, McCarthy is a woman of conviction who exposed actions she believed were against the law. "This a matter of principle," said Ray McGovern, a former fellow CIA analyst, "where she said my oath, my promise not to reveal secrets is superceded by my oath to defend the constitution of the U.S."

Here comes the "higher loyalty" argument. Except in this case the higher loyalty may be to a political party.

Still more ...

Larry Johnson at TPM Cafe has an interesting article on Mary McCarthy, the gist of which is that Ms. McCarthy was not in a position to know anything operational about the intelligence, but may have stumbled across it while at the Inspector General's. Johnson then goes on to distinguish McCarthy's "service to her country" leak to the despicable leaks engineered by the President of an undercover operator, presumably one Valerie Plame.

For starters, Mary never worked on the Operations side of the house. In other words, she never worked a job where she would have had first hand operational knowledge about secret prisons. She worked the analytical side of the CIA and served with the National Intelligence Council. ... Sometime within the last year she returned to CIA on a terminal assignment. I've heard through the grapevine that she was attending the seminar for officers who are retiring while working with the Inspector General (IG). Now things get interesting. She could find out about secret prisons if Intelligence Officers involved with that program had filed a complaint with the IG or if there was some incident that compelled senior CIA officials to determine an investigation was warranted. ...

I am struck by the irony that Mary McCarthy may have been fired for blowing the whistle and ensuring that the truth about an abuse was told to the American people. There is something potentially honorable in that action; particularly when you consider that George Bush authorized Scooter Libby to leak misleading information for the purpose of deceiving the American people about the grounds for going to war in Iraq. While I'm neither a fan nor friend of Mary's, she may have done a service for her country. She was a lousy manager in my experience, but she is not a traitor and has not betrayed the identity of an undercover intelligence officer. That dirty work was done by the minions of George Bush and Dick Cheney. It is important to keep that fact in the forefront as the judgment on Mary McCarthy's acts is rendered.

Request to commenters

Keep your comments on topic. And try to limit yourself to four or five comments per post

236 Comments:

Blogger Doug said...

Colleagues Say C.I.A. Analyst Played by Rules
NY Times 3:23 PM ET
Mary O. McCarthy, dismissed after being accused of leaking information to reporters, once was responsible for guarding some of the nation's most sensitive secrets.

"It looks to me like Mary is being used as a sacrificial lamb," said Larry Johnson a former C.I.A. officer who worked for Ms. McCarthy , in the agency's Latin America section.

She's just a mom, like those Duke dancers, making a living in the world's oldest profession:
Married with one child, she also began attending law school at night, two former co-workers said, and talked about switching to a career in public interest law.

4/22/2006 02:59:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Somehow, her meteoric rise doesn't strike me as merit-based.

Maybe it's the fact that her associations are so political.

There *is* the one big promotion under the Reagan administration, though--to the Latin American/Caribbean desk.

4/22/2006 03:00:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

This episode is déjà vu: Graves' I Claudius - Augustus and Livia

If just once the administration of George W. Bush would act with the ruthlessness sometimes required of a chief executive, future tragedies could be foreclosed. Bring Ms. McCarthy to trial post haste. And what was this business of firing her; she should have walked out of the office in shackles, to an awaiting press.

4/22/2006 03:02:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug, 2:59 PM

"sacrifical lamb" I should certainly hope so, with the accent on sacrifice.

"She's just a mom" So was Ethel Rosenberg. That didn't cut much slack, though.

Mr. Bush must really try to ignore the newspapers he never reads and do what is required for the good of the nation. Bring her to trial, fight for a conviction, and seek the maximum incarceration permitted - all this in less than five years.

4/22/2006 03:07:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Oh, we'll get to those scenes soon enough, Allen. The lefties will see to it. Already the NYT and WaPo have become Party Organs. There'll be a reaction, alas. It's called "devolution".

4/22/2006 03:09:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

allen,
Moonbones had a suggestion in a prior thread:
"I'm Mad as Heck, and, And!"
---
I really think that's over the line, tho.

4/22/2006 03:09:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I'll be relieved when GWB gets to "zero" in the approval polls. THEN he can start hanging seditionists.

4/22/2006 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug,

"over the line"

What line, officer?

4/22/2006 03:18:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

""She's just a mom" So was Ethel Rosenberg. That didn't cut much slack, though."
---
Is Mary Jooish?
Jeez!

4/22/2006 03:18:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen,

"seditionists"

With compassion, and then hanged. Just kidding.

4/22/2006 03:21:00 PM  
Blogger Meme chose said...

It's entirely consistent with the Clinton view of the world that they turned the security bureaucracy into a jobs program for political hacks. They could see no higher or more urgent use for it.

They had a long train of camp followers, former flight attendants and others who desperately needed government jobs because they would never be very good at finding the kind of work they wanted outside the government. That's because the only kind of work they wanted was a job which would enable them to pursue their favorite activity - full-time political campaigning.

Leaving these people behind as political landmines, protected by civil service employment rules, to leak and then burst in public view one after another during the Bush administration, with the press guaranteed to receive each one with open arms, was a bonus.

It's largely corrupt practices like this which ensure that successive Republican presidents keep the bulk of the country's intelligence assets under the Defense Department, where they can be secured from this sort of partisan political interference. The Democrats will never be able to operate this sort of scam on a much larger scale as long as our country's Generals don't allow themselves to be subverted for political purposes... oh, wait...

4/22/2006 03:22:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Stoned.
It'd be a Compassionate Banging.
Medically Mediated.

4/22/2006 03:23:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen,

"Just kidding"

About the compassion, that is. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

4/22/2006 03:23:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

In my part of the world, a drought has recently broken, lightning and thunder provide the atmosphere as I read Wretchard's latest. I keep telling myself, "It's only a movie, it's only a movie."

4/22/2006 03:23:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Meme,
One of my favorites was the gal gaurding the Crown Jewels that eliminated Security badges because they are DISCRIMINATORY!

4/22/2006 03:25:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

It was a Dark and Stormy Noon.

4/22/2006 03:26:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug,

"Is Mary Jooish?"

Miriam is not Joooish. Wouldn't that be something. We'd already have 100 posts from the "Zionists under the bed lobby."

4/22/2006 03:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Joos doing business with the Dust Bunnies.

4/22/2006 03:31:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

meme chose,

I think you have a handle on this. The administration has been consistently undermined on a routine basis. The administration, sadly, is not blessed.

Again, great post.

4/22/2006 03:33:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Now I forgot who linked the Dana Live! ht anyho:

"Winnipeg, Canada:
Congratulations on your Pulitzer. You reporting is the kind that is vial for a thriving democracy. How do you respond to people who have said you should be tried for treason instead?

Dana Priest: Well, calmly most of the time. Just because something is classified does not make it automatically something that the world shouldn't know about."

4/22/2006 03:34:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Vile" would be more like it.

4/22/2006 03:34:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Dana is really our old friend
Double Standard,
and in fact it IS the JOOOS!
"Dana Priest:

Double standards abound. I do believe Israeli's nuclear status contributes mightily to the nuclear arms race in the Middle East. I do not think there is any way Israel will give up that capability. No nation that has acquired nukes has. Why would they? It vastly increases their power and standing in the world. That's the irony.
"

4/22/2006 03:38:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

what a great post, Meme Chose--so true, the long line of camp-followers to be paid off with our tax dollars, so they could dirty-campaign against the interests of the people providing those tax dollars, forever.

What a slick con--the blow-off was to leave tree-huggin Al-the-Insane in office, generating mo dat gravy.

4/22/2006 03:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Call of the Big Apple?
Dana Priest:
Well, the Big Apple calls....thank you all for joining me and for your many nice comments which I did not post.
Until next week....

4/22/2006 03:42:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Don't Play on our Fears, Smed!

4/22/2006 03:43:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Smedley sez, folks should tink about it before dey votes.

4/22/2006 03:48:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug,

"Dust Bunnies"

OT, but is that a Zionist rock group? Of course, not to be confused with a Joooish rock group.

Seriously, this administration needs to find itself a decorator - a Buford Pusser. Oh, yeah.

Pusser the Repub enforcer, armed with a wiffle ball bat. Loses something, doesn’t it?

4/22/2006 03:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Dana Priest:

Thank you. Don Graham called me up to his office and told me, with Len Downie, Phil Bennett (managing editor) and Liz Spayd (national editor) present. It was a greeaaat moment.
Lots of hugs.
What really made it feel like Christmas, though, was that my other great friends and colleagues won as well.
As for the other prize-winners, they and so many of the finalists are such a testament to the powerful work that can be done by newspapers these days.
You should go to the Pulitzer Web site and check it out.
It's amazing work.

4/22/2006 03:49:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I'm losing it.

4/22/2006 03:52:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug,

"irony"

Wasn't he the cousin of calumny?

4/22/2006 03:53:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Think about, when a nation rejects a GHWB for a WJC, what can the Lord of Hosts do but give that nation what it asked for--catastrophe, disaster, armor-gettin'.

4/22/2006 03:55:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug,

I'm sorry about the sexism. What I meant was, "Wasn't he/she/sheit the cousin of calumny?"

4/22/2006 03:56:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

A pucker lips, Now!

4/22/2006 03:58:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Flopping Aces:
"This is a country that is telling the world they will wipe Israel off the face of the earth but hey, let them get the bomb.

What right do we have to tell them they cant drop a nuke on Israel.
Amazing.
"

4/22/2006 03:58:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen,

Armor-gettin's what we got. Or, will that be Armor-gettins will we get?

4/22/2006 04:03:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug, 3:52 PM

"I'm losing it."

Walter Durante won a Pulitzer
Yasser Arafat won a Nobel

These people confuse irony with idiocy. Hang in there, at some point such stupidity ultimately proves fatal.

4/22/2006 04:06:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Fear Not:
"We have added Golden Animal Print and Sparkle Square hijabs!!!
---
Hijabs-R-Us

4/22/2006 04:07:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Did Walter or Fatso have Nukes?

4/22/2006 04:08:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hijabs-R-Us is your one stop shop.

4/22/2006 04:12:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I'm lookin into the crystal bawl and seeing wavy words ...can't...we...all just get ...along? NO...you...idiot....

4/22/2006 04:13:00 PM  
Blogger Boghie said...

Wretchard,

That ain't no article you linked to. It is either a special advertising section or, more likely, a leaked copy of a job reference letter for Ms. McCarthy.

She let me build her resume and post it on my site:

Resume - Mary McCarthy'

Included is a copy of that reference letter.

See, there are even those fighting for the common democratic good in the press rooms of the Washington Post and New York Times.

4/22/2006 04:16:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Right below the Times Priest Link is this one:
How a Billionaire Friend of Bill Helps Him Do Good, and Well

Bill Clinton champions a private equity firm run by Ronald W. Burkle that invests in poor areas.
Graphic: An Enduring Friendship
---
Mr. Clinton is also a partner in a Yucaipa fund that invests in overseas ventures, for which he receives regular payments and would draw one-third of the profits when the fund is dissolved at least five years from now.

4/22/2006 04:18:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Ahh, Scooter McCarthy, Mary Libby--wot's the diff ???

4/22/2006 04:19:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

Doug said...
Fear Not:
"We have added Golden Animal Print and Sparkle Square hijabs!!!

Just a guess - no pigs or monkeys?

Semtex sparkles! These people just kill me.

4/22/2006 04:19:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Har de Har, Har.
---
I get it:
All Warhol had to do was depict reality.

4/22/2006 04:21:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ny Times links Algore's Goddess Video about 8" down on front page.
Hot!
Carbon Footprints fill your eyes.
Hybrid Lumbers when you rise.
Sleep Little Darlin,
Do Not Cry...

4/22/2006 04:28:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hubbie's Dodge Durango has a
BIG Carbon Footprint.
Being a greenie, he feels GUILT.
Goddess wife makes up tho:
Picks up at least one Bottle a Day.

4/22/2006 04:31:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

doug,

Har de, Har, Har

Saw the fresco in Italy. From Dante, just prior to the pouring of the molten gold. Now, that's a comforting thought.

4/22/2006 04:35:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

snip from Boghie link, CNN, October 2000:

With a firm handshake, Albright and Kim moved their two nations -- longtime adversaries -- a bit closer.

Kim noted that Albright was the first U.S. secretary of state to visit North Korea. "This is a new one from a historical point of view," he said. "I am really very happy."

Responded Albright: "I'm very glad to be here in your beautiful city."

Albright arrived to a low-key arrival ceremony that belied the significance of her visit. Asked if the United States was moving too quickly in the relationship with North Korea, she said, "We're not moving faster than it makes sense."

(ed. note: I'm not quoting this more visciouser than it makes sense)

4/22/2006 04:42:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

"I'm a suburban mom." - Linda Tripp

Now, Dana, you silly putz, that's by G-d irony.

Think anyone in the administration has picked-up on this little plum? I doubt it.

4/22/2006 04:47:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

O/T, but i thought id type this out for added perspective on the "the place is just f'd up" vs. "we made so many mistakes!!!."

To wit: from V.S. Naipaul's "Among the Believers," copyright 1981.

(in parts, for easy reading. the following action occurs in Karachi, Pakistan, as Naipaul, having finished his tour of Iran, Pakistan and Malaysia, is returning back through on his way to the United States.)

"The [newspaper's] office looked run down. But just a few months before, there had been a drama. The Morning News had reprinted an article from Arab News about a great Arab woman. The woman was the great-grandfather of the Prophet. And the article, for various reasons, had outraged the Shia community. There had been demonstrations and threats, and the government had had to act. They had closed the paper down for three days; they had orderd an inquiry.

It was a time of danger. If the authorities hadn't acted, and the Morning News had had a weak editor, there might have been a calamity. Ghauri, the editor, had taken full responsabilityfor what had appeared in his paper; he had acted throughout as a man of courage and honour. He was a very sick man....

The matter was now closed. But for Nusrat the matter was not closed. It was Nusrat who looked after the women's page. It was he who made the slip, had passed the article from Arab News. For weeks and months Nusrat lived had lived with the danger and guilt; the editor had seen him shrink into himself.

What was the offending matter that the Morning News had published? To understand, it was necessary to go over a little of Islamic history.

4/22/2006 04:49:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Buddy is consumed with visions of the Madame Pressing 400lbs with her legs.

4/22/2006 04:52:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

"For Shia Mulsims, Ali, the Prophet's son-in-law, should have been the first temporal sucessor (or caliph) to the to Prophet. He was passed over three times; he was only the fourth caliph and then (after a reign of only 5 years) he was murdered. Ali had two sons. Neither was granted the caliphate. The first was poinsoned. The second son, Hussain, had a daughter - Ali's grandduaghter, the Prophet's great-granddaughter. The offending article was about her.

There is some controversy between the two main Muslim sects about this woman. The Arabians (or orthodox) try to suggest that she was not interested in the cause of her father's death, she settled down happily in the Arabian city of Medina; that Medina, bursting with the wealth of Arab conquests, became in the eighth century a city of luxury and culture: musicians, singers, courtesans, slaves, exquisite brothels; and that Hussain's daughter, many times married, queened over the city.

To the Shia, grieving for Ali and his sons, this story about Ali's granddaughter adds insult to injury. They reject it. They say that the girl never grew up, died as a child. But the article on the women's page of the Morning News - reprinted from Arab News - gave the Arab or orthodox version of this woman's history, made her a beguiling, luxury-loving patroness of the arts in eighth century Arabia.

4/22/2006 04:55:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

That's not no more weight than it makes sense.

4/22/2006 04:56:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Albright arrived to a low-key arrival ceremony that belied the significance of her visit."
---
But soon she made ammends:
Bellied Up
And Danced

4/22/2006 04:56:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Zaius said...

Allen 3:02pm,

Graves' I Claudius - Augustus and Livia

Have that loaded up in the player at the moment. Best TV series of all time.

Somehow, this whole thing reminds me more of Caligula, however...collecting all the sea shells from all the beaches of the world, in order to depose that oceanic tyrant, Posideon aka Neptune.

Posideon Adventure...indeed.

4/22/2006 04:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"A'm mending fences"
She said.
Better red.
She decided.

4/22/2006 04:58:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

Re: my 4:47 PM

All, my sincere apology for yielding to emotion.

I wrote, "Now, Dana, you silly putz, that's by G-d irony."

Strike "putz" and insert (Do not go there!) "Pulitzer."

4/22/2006 05:03:00 PM  
Blogger Dr. Zaius said...

Allen 3:48pm,

OT, but is that a Zionist rock group

Originally, I thought the 'Zionists' were a Reggae band. :|

I just popped in to say hello...

...'be seeing you...'

PS_one of my posts was deleted on Firedoglake last night. I'm very proud of myself :)

4/22/2006 05:03:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

"The article could not have appeared at a worse time. It was the month of Monhurram, when the Shias mourn the death of Ali and his sons for 10 days. Tnder the martial law regulations of Pakistan, crowds were not allowed to assemble; but the Shias were free to meet during the month of mourning in mosques or parks or playgrounds, and there they became worked up against the Morning News. Forty or fifty students marched to the paper one day; there were threatening telephone calls; there was talk of leading a procession of forty thousand to the Morning News and burning it down. At another level, there began to be talk of an international conspiracy against the Muslim world. The seige of the Mecca mosque had just taken place; the American Embassy has been seized in Tehran; a Pakistan plane with pilgrims had crashed after leaving Mecca airport.

It was a bad time for the paper. It might have been closed down for good, and many people would have lost their jobs. And there was the physical danger from the enraged Shias of Karachi. And not only Shias: in the month of Mohurram, feelings about Ali and his sons run high among the orthodox as well. Nusrat must have lived a nightmare. He wished to serve the faith above everything else; and in the land of the faith he must have felt quite alone. The world would have changed for him: the appearance of the streets, the crowds. At any moment he might have been set upon.

Ghauri said - was it with despair or fatigue? - 'There are four versions of this lady's story. One version is as was printed. The second version is that the lady died at nine and a half. The third version is that she died at eleven and a half. The, and most likely, is that she never existed.'"

Draw your own conclusions.

4/22/2006 05:03:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Putz Played the Pulitzer Committee like a Wurlitzer.

4/22/2006 05:08:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

It was Bill's Organ, tho.

4/22/2006 05:09:00 PM  
Blogger Old Dad said...

Doug,

"Buddy is consumed with visions of the Madame Pressing 400lbs with her legs."

That is hateful and mean spirited.

Besides, what do Madame's 400 lb legs pressing against Buddy until consummation have to do with the topic?

4/22/2006 05:16:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

yes, Tin-Eared CocoNut Ass-of-a-Pineapple, what if someone had not 'erd the news story? How Humiliatin'.

4/22/2006 05:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

My mind slipped off the thread to Buddy's Bed!

4/22/2006 05:45:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Okay, I take back the tin-eared part. Bigger fish to fry: communist-front organization ACORN is being deprived of its right to steal the New Orleans mayoral election! This is an Outrage, and it Shall Not Go Unchallenged and and...oh, you know....

4/22/2006 05:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wish I had some Nork Manufacturing Connections.
Could make a Million On May Day
Sellin Steatopgoddess Figurines
of You Know Who.
---
I need help here:
I may be a Biologist of Sorts, but I ain't French.

4/22/2006 05:53:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Buddy 5:50 PM
After the Algore Green Goddess Video were some good N.O. vids.
One Horse-Taxi Driver Spoke like he might have a Phd in English, plus Speech.
And a real can do 'tude about fixin up his house.

4/22/2006 05:57:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Here's a Brain-Splitting header from ABC:
Will CIA Firing Cloud Public Window on Government?

4/22/2006 05:58:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"This a matter of principle," said Ray McGovern, a former fellow CIA analyst, "where she said my oath, my promise not to reveal secrets is superceded by my oath to defend the constitution of the U.S."

Oh, Good God Almighty--Ray--Ray! RAY!!!

4/22/2006 06:02:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

If only we could Pretzel the Muzzie Minds So.

4/22/2006 06:10:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

This is the logic of Chaos. that's all it is. There is nothing but atoms.

4/22/2006 06:15:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1143498895484&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Uh-oh - I guess someone must've disbanded their goddamn fascist army or something. Stupid! Stupid!

4/22/2006 06:15:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

any clumping of atoms into a larger structure, is irrelevant.

4/22/2006 06:16:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Dan--LOL! No telling how many times the Dove of Peace has tried to fly in to the Gaza, only to be shot to pieces by a hundred thousand AK47s firing blindly straight up in the air.

4/22/2006 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

As are the clumps of cells that evolve therewith.
Best to wrap in Blankets.

4/22/2006 06:30:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Ha - yeah I've certainly lost count.

Somehow I believe if we just ignored that countrylette for 5 or 6 years we could all re-tune in and it'd be a lot calmer. A lot emptier, a lot more destroyed, but a lot more Peaceful.

(And with any luck I'd only have to go as far as the British Museum to be able to see the Dome of the Rock. Now that would be a bonus.)

4/22/2006 06:30:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Maybe we'd derive some meaning from teaching Dan to Link?
...or we could just link back to the bobal thread.
---
Unless there are special needs that would go unmet.

4/22/2006 06:35:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

In a town where leaking is common, the decision about who to prosecute can seem partisan — especially since President Bush himself authorized the leaking of classified information in the run-up to the Iraq war.

ABC knows better than this--the president is a de-classifier--whatever he says becomes automatically--by his saying it--declassified.

ABC is telling a deliberate lie in order to fake a fake moral-equivalency.

4/22/2006 06:36:00 PM  
Blogger Mrs. Davis said...

Larry Johnson rang a bell for me. When I clicked on doug's link, I got lots of sports references. What I think he meant to link to was another CIA hatchet job gone awry.

4/22/2006 06:38:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I watched Hotspur in California stammering and stuttering that the price of gasoline reminds us we should find a substitute fuel. (It was not quite that smooth so I cleaned it up a bit.) The political genius in him has not recognized how he could change the subject and go after Ms. McCarthy with a vengance and smoke out her defenders. No he will wait till the Left and the press define her heroine status. Has he had a mental breakdown?

4/22/2006 06:39:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Dan is a writerer, not a linkerer!

4/22/2006 06:39:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

New Orleans Hip-Hop: Home of Gangsta Gumbo
A secondary link leads to:
"In Craig Brewer's new film, Christina Ricci is chained to a radiator. But that's not the shocking part."
---
Slower, Please?

4/22/2006 06:42:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wow, that's weird, Mrs Davis.
I just copied that from the Times article!

4/22/2006 06:44:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Mrs Davis, have you ever seen such hypocrisy--ever?

4/22/2006 06:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Maybe they did not want to reveal
the REAL Larry Johnson?
He's a real Johnson, all right.

4/22/2006 06:46:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

2164--he hadda talk gasoline today--the radio address targets mid-America--not us poli-junkies.

4/22/2006 06:47:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

6:39 PM 2164th,
He hasn't experienced a Mental BreakOUT since he took his last drink.
Devout, but not out.

4/22/2006 06:49:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Let's see how good YOU'd do it, Elmer of the Island.

4/22/2006 06:51:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Maybe I'll volunteer for 'stan duty and become a REAL Junkie.

4/22/2006 06:51:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Wow good catch mrs. davis. I wonder how much the apparent cabal will be exposed? Larry Wilkerson involved at all?

4/22/2006 06:51:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Could just a little nip hurt?

4/22/2006 06:52:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Dan, I hear the Giant Sucking Sound
of the MSM Black Hole.
It's been nice.

4/22/2006 06:54:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Thanks Buddy,
For reminding me. Although I wonder if there are 15,000 people that listen to the radio address.

4/22/2006 06:54:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

jush uh liddle niparooski....

4/22/2006 06:54:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

6:54 PM
Crap! I missed it.
Don't bother yourself w/a synopsis tho, tanks.

4/22/2006 06:58:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

buddy larsen, 6:24 PM

Those Palestinian college kids are such cut-ups. Oh, well, boys will be boys.
“The clash broke out in Gaza's Universities neighborhood. Hamas activists arrived from the Islamic University and Fatah activists arrived from the al-Azhar University.” http://clarityandresolve.com/

As usual, all parties were “outraged.” http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3242284,00.html There was no report of “humiliation.”

Yes, shots were fired, bombs thrown, and then all retired to the charred Danish consulate for a press conference, where the Zionists were roundly cursed and vengeance sworn. Ariel Sharon remains unavailable for comment.

4/22/2006 07:03:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The NEW National Truth-tellin Champ!
"Johnson, a registered Republican who voted for Bush in 2000, said he and Plame have been friends since they began their training at the CIA in 1985."
--Larry Johnson
Ignorance was bliss, but thanks, Mrs. Davis.

4/22/2006 07:05:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

yep--this bunch with the NSA and the Eastern Europe leaking has damaged the doo-doo out of our national security--and insulted and terrified our allies, and given AQ a huge boost--but,

"Ahhh, it's nuffin, Smedley, nuffin at all, compared to pore ole Mizz Plame--the lady who wanders around town wearing a sandwich board painted "I WORK FOR THE CIA"--getting maybe mentioned in passing somewhere by someone who maybe heard it or something a few years ago maybe."

4/22/2006 07:05:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Doug 6:54

My wife wants to know why I think that is so funny.

4/22/2006 07:08:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Interventions-R-Us.
Preventive, of course.

4/22/2006 07:10:00 PM  
Blogger Oengus Moonbones said...

[Since it's more pertinent to this thread, I'll repeat my comment I made elsewhere]…

The Great Wretchard: "…there are already the Dana Priests and the Mary McCarthys. So soon. So soon."

My only question here is "Where is Bush?"

If I don't see prosecutions, and soon, carried out with upmost vigor—or with extreme prejudice as they say in the military—then I can only reach one conclusion: Bush is, sadly, a failed leader because he is too intent on being "nice" to everyone.

The Prez should come out and at least say "I'm as mad as Heck and I won't takes it anymore."

4/22/2006 07:11:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Moonbones, my sentiment exactly see my 6:39.

4/22/2006 07:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Moon,
At 3:09 PM, I excercised a little editorial discretion on your intemperate outburst.

4/22/2006 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Temperance Movement Nation.

4/22/2006 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Maybe no one has explained it to him yet to make him mad as heck

4/22/2006 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

:-(

4/22/2006 07:17:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

On the morn of 9-11, Rudy was,
he wasn't.
I confided the future to my wife.

4/22/2006 07:17:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I think the Prez let Porter Goss say it for him--he said (paraphrased) "These leaks have done serious damage, and when I say "serious" I mean SERIOUS damage, to our operations."

4/22/2006 07:18:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

THAT'll do it!

4/22/2006 07:19:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

How many Americans would the Dem Cabal trade for the White House ? My guess is not one over say a hundred million.

4/22/2006 07:21:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Imagine being in any of the Eastern European Governments and hearing the American Ambassador has a favor to ask? Someday when we least expect it and we most need it, it won't be there and we will never know why. The left and the Democrats may be a disgrace but this political administration is inept beyond belief. And inept can do as much or more damage as the breaking of national security laws. We will see if POTUS notice.

4/22/2006 07:29:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Maybe have Priest take Condi's place if she'll promise all of them she won't do it again.

4/22/2006 07:33:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

i guess if you lead the hosses to water but you can't make 'em drink, you're an inept hoss-waterer. can't argue that--tho I can have my thoughts about the hosses.

4/22/2006 07:35:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Replace Cheney w/Ted.
That'll quiet down the MSM.

4/22/2006 07:35:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

The point is Bush has to come down hard and fast on this.

4/22/2006 07:36:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

You don't know your Asses when you see 'em, Bud!

4/22/2006 07:36:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

7:36 PM
Blood-Turnip

4/22/2006 07:37:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Even if you stick a fork in it.

4/22/2006 07:37:00 PM  
Blogger raymondshaw said...

He got elected. Twice. Says something. Think Gore. Think Kerry.
Either would be far worse than inept. But at least we could read happy news.
So I suppoe that would be something.

4/22/2006 07:39:00 PM  
Blogger raymondshaw said...

'suppose'

4/22/2006 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Think Zell.

4/22/2006 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

look over your shoulder, and find you're behind.

4/22/2006 07:42:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

What is says is that a lot of people, present company included decided Gore was unstable and Kerry unsuitable. I regret Bush is so deficient in so many unexpected ways.

4/22/2006 07:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Apple-Tree

4/22/2006 07:47:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

wretchard wrote:

"Here comes the "higher loyalty" argument. Except in this case the higher loyalty may be to a political party."

So many here lament the acrimonious state of US politics and I see the jackals jumping on the political bandwagon in this case. But, is there a higher loyalty for any of you, or do you simply believe that secrecy is the be all and end all especially in support of King Bush. We are talking about secret run CIA prisons in foreign countries. Do we not, as US citizens have a right to know what our government is doing in our name? They are our representatives are they not? Don't we have a right to know what they are up to? At some point we have to draw the line. If Bush were buggering little boys and claiming it was OK because he was Prez and it was a matter of national security surely you would support someone leaking that info wouldn't you? Well, here we have our wonderful government running secret torture camps in other countries and you don't think I have a right to know about it? Shame on you!

4/22/2006 07:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

A Thousand Points of Light'll Show em.

4/22/2006 07:49:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Kinder and Gentler than who?"
---
Nancy Reagan

4/22/2006 07:50:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Doug, you are the master of sussinction

4/22/2006 07:53:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Well, he got this weird war laid on him, and is doing okay at it--no mo 911, yadda yadda--and the tax cuts have advanced the global economy, he got a couple SCOTUS in past the screemin' meemies--overall, it seems to me that the 'inept' thing is the beautiful creation of 5 yrs of dedicated MSM liturgy, compounded with BDS widespread enuff to make any leader inept in the way of being able to lead the unleadable.

That's my opinyon, yassuh!

4/22/2006 07:54:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Ash nonsense. Pure Carteresque nonsense.

4/22/2006 07:57:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

ash, your opinion of your fellow Americans-in-uniform, must be mighty low, if you think your being in on everything they do is the only thing preventing them from torturing people.

4/22/2006 07:58:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"We are talking about secret run CIA prisons in foreign countries. Do we not, as US citizens have a right to know what our government is doing in our name?"
---
So why didn't they tell on Bill, Ash?
They were there then, too.

4/22/2006 07:58:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

(working there, that is)
...the PATRIOTS.

4/22/2006 08:00:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

buddy wrote:

"and the tax cuts have advanced the global economy, "

have they? Are things really all that fine and dandy? Sure global growth is good and the treasuries are still moving but might there not be something rotten? Here we are at war and traditionally we get inflation in such a state but we aren't. One possibility is the earlier worries about deflation have been countered by the inflationary tendencies of war. In addition, shouldn't we during good time REDUCE the deficit? Instead we are adding to it at a considerable pace. On top of that you have the current account deficit and the steadily declining dollar. So, Buddy, to sit back and claim Bush tax cuts are at the cause of the worlds growth is.....is....stetching it a mite.

4/22/2006 08:02:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Jeez, is there no diff between the GOOD guys and the BAD guys, Ash ? As in, what are all these activities aimed at accomplishing?

4/22/2006 08:03:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

Last evening, I attended a fare-well dinner for a senior NCO. This guy is tough as nails and as intensely loyal to his people as a mother bear.

Per his request, the dinner was held off-post. He wanted no official send off. It was a moving affair. His staff came in mass, paying for their own meals and bar. Thirty youngsters, with spouses in tow, came to see off the old man. Speeches were given and tears shed. Rarely have I seen such unfeigned loyalty. These kids would have followed the old Irishman anywhere.

The gentleman said, “Twenty years, three months, five days, and I’ve loved every minute of it.” He was/is a “lifer.” He has dedicated his life to his country. He has given his all to his service. His life was focused on the welfare of his troops.

It should be noted that of the command only three officers attended. Those who failed to honor this good man are also “lifers.” Yes, that kind of “lifer.”

Later, at a private gathering, I asked, “So, why are you really leaving?”

He responded, “It’s no fun anymore. There's just no place for me.”

His leaving is the nation’s loss.

And then we have Ms. McCarthy and her ilk.

4/22/2006 08:04:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

How many ways can you spel "rendition?"

4/22/2006 08:04:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

No credit for changing the subject.
Or predicate.

4/22/2006 08:05:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

buddy wrote:

"ash, your opinion of your fellow Americans-in-uniform, must be mighty low, if you think your being in on everything they do is the only thing preventing them from torturing people."

Your right buddy, it seems that even though we know it is occurring they are still doing it. It will take a more then press reports to get it to stop.

4/22/2006 08:05:00 PM  
Blogger Starling David Hunter said...

I never heard the name Mary McCarthy before this scandal broke. My reading of her resume and her meteoric rise through the ranks leads me to believe that she was being groomed for a very high position in the nation's intelligence services. When the political connections are taken into consideration, I can't help but think that some people had it in mind to make her the DCI in the next Democratic administration.

Provided her reputation and good name are not tarnished beyond repair from this leak investigation, it is not hard to imagine a fawning press rehabilitating her image when the time arrives.

I can see the titles now, "Mary McCarthy: Profile in Courage", "Mary McCarthy: Speaker of Truth to Power"; "Mary McCarthy: A True Patriot"; "There IS something about Mary"; "Proud Mary"; "Mary McCarthy: "I have a Plan to catch Osama"; "When leaks are a good thing" blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum

The title you wont see? "Our safety depends on someone who leaks like a defective one."

4/22/2006 08:06:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

buddy, are you claiming the ends justify the means? It is ok for US to torture because we are the good guys? By engaging in torture we become bad guys.

4/22/2006 08:08:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Maybe he'll find a way to have fun fighting another way, Allen.
We all gotta try.
Moving Story.
Ring of Truth.

4/22/2006 08:10:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Ash, the euro was introduced in 1999 at $1.18, it trades around $1.23. That is a massive slide of 1/2 % per year. Huh?

4/22/2006 08:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

8:06 PM
Starling.
Rush is always saying, and giving examples, of losers rising FASTER to the top to come back again for the left.

4/22/2006 08:12:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

FYI. General Zinni coming up on Bill Maher on HBO

4/22/2006 08:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Starling,
Depends on your point of view:
An Asbestos thong for the Madame would be nice, imo.

4/22/2006 08:14:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

If they cram enough BS in one 24 hour cycle, might they acheive Fusion?
Sure good at producing Fission.

4/22/2006 08:16:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Percentages, Ash, not nominals.

Look at debt-financing in terms of percentages and of RETURN on the debt. That's what central bankers do, and how they vote, is what you read in the business section every day.

Everything is bigger. You need to use percentages.

The IMF met today and had no emergencies anywhere--for the first time in history.

World growth is unprecedented @ 4.5%, people everywehere are prospering--and you're fretting that "there's something rotten somewhere"?

Yes, okay, energy supply. Prez has been trying to work it. Can you say "Alaska"?

4/22/2006 08:17:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wilson, Johnson, Plame, Zinni...
Get me a Priest!

4/22/2006 08:18:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

big cheer for Zinni from the leftos on Bill Maher

4/22/2006 08:19:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Zinni is very Politically Correct.

4/22/2006 08:21:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Heather Higgins is outflanking the general.

4/22/2006 08:23:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

buddy even in percentage terms the deficits have been increasing in these good times, not what Keynes would recommend. Hold on to your hat if we should (as we always do) hit a rough patch again.


2164th,

There are more currencies in the world then US and Euro. Here is a nice little chart for you to make the decline easy for you to see. Note: OIL is denominated in US dollars, the recent price rises (for buddy) represent larger percentage increases then, say, for Canadians.

US dollar versus Basket of currencies

4/22/2006 08:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Did Ash spel "rendition" yet?
(I skip)

4/22/2006 08:27:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

ash, even the Pope goes along with "ticking bomb"--and with these terrorists--it *is* always "ticking bomb".

4/22/2006 08:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

50, 51...
Alaska, again: Hawaii?

4/22/2006 08:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

He hears the ticking Sodom Bomb, too.

4/22/2006 08:32:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Ash all commodities are up because world demand is up. World demand is up because we are in the middle or beginning of the greatest economic expansion in history. Oil demand in India and China is as great as all oil demand ten years ago. Countries are in defecit because others prefer their equities or currency to their products. I do not mean to pile on you but the facts you use for your argument are remiss in one aspect. They are not factual

4/22/2006 08:34:00 PM  
Blogger fred said...

People like "Ash" really are clueless about the nature and purpose of intelligence operations. Winston Churchill once said that sometimes truth itself must have a bodyguard of deception. In a broad way, it can be said that in a world that is utterly and irreconcileably hostile to the United States of America and the principles of liberty, we have to be able to apply the operative principle of the ends justifying the means. When you have armies - literally - of lawyers and activists in our country who will do anything to defend and expand the "rights" and capabilities of our enemies to kill us, and these people do not even want coercive interrogation methods used (and I am not talking about torture here)to get information from captured enemy operatives, we must have the ability to shield from view the methods and information used to fight this enemy. People like Mary McCarthy have completely politicized the intelligence service. There is precedent for this, and you will find them extant among the recent historical examples of totalitarianism. Just like the KGB and Gestapo, people like Mary McCarthy consider themselves above any law or loyalty to professional standards. And for a political vision she would sell out the nation in order to advance her vision of the nation. She was in the wrong business. This is a person who is an aesthete, living in a ethereal realm of intrigue and manipulation, without any mooring to the lives of the people of this nation and our allies, who are daily under threat from an extremely dangerous enemy.

There really should be only one destination for this nihilistic narcissist. It is the destination and location that all convicted traitors in the past, but we have somehow shut down that exit and closed it off to traffic. That destination is the gallows. The hangman's noose is the appointed moment that is the fitting reward for those who cripple our nation's capacity in war time.

4/22/2006 08:35:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Thanks, fred.
Well said.

4/22/2006 08:38:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Aswh, currencies are always relative to each other--the only bench is gold (and commodities in general). What you're seeing is an ocean of liquidity, put out by the Fed deliberately, to fight the recession and 911 effects. if it weren't for developed nation's productivity gains--that is the creation of positive returns with the liquidity--we'd be in an inflation, and interest vrateas would be higher than a nickel on the long bond. This is a stimulative global boom, and working very well due to the efficiency and value-added of trade and low-cost production. i don't get your beef--if you were sweating what entitlements hold for our future, THEN you'd have some ammo.

4/22/2006 08:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I'll awake tonite out of my mind with a million banal ryhmes going through it.

4/22/2006 08:40:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Fred, well said.

I would add one thing. Responsibility and accountability. If someone decides to do something extra-legal for their perceived vision of the greater good, then they should except the consequences of your action.

4/22/2006 08:42:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

of their action. doug distracted me.

4/22/2006 08:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"--if you were sweating what entitlements hold for our future"
---
GM Nation.
I was thinking you should write something about Michael Moore, Mr. Rabbit, and GM, Bud:
Did the entitlements balloon after the movie?
...I heard 100k are idle at full pay in the "Labor Bank."
$2-3k per cars worth, all totaled.
Enough to total a car company.

4/22/2006 08:45:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

good one Fred, send me some o that Percodan--

4/22/2006 08:46:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

8:45,
My specialty.

4/22/2006 08:47:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I probably owe doug a banal phrase or two. Something far out, but I can't think of anything pithy.

4/22/2006 08:47:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Percodan.
Dan running on Java.

4/22/2006 08:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Could always just Pith on me, like Jimmah's grave.
Pith that man, he's French!

4/22/2006 08:49:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

best of the night to doug. dont try an out scrabble the man.

4/22/2006 08:50:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

fred,

"That destination is the gallows."

Precisely so!

A gentleman is given the ax or the bullet; a churlish turncoat dangles from the gibbet - compassionately, of course.

4/22/2006 08:51:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

2164th,
Nah, you gotta associate in competition.
I just disassosciate.

4/22/2006 08:52:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

When you think about the grief the US is taking from Russia, for example, you have to wonder how much information has been leaked?

Russia Warns Against Threatening Iran http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060423/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear

4/22/2006 08:54:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

and katrina, ash--we had to add liquidity for that, too--The dollar is doing quite well--considering all the disasters, the war, the recession he inherited--and most spectacularly, the demand-driven low-yield long-bond. long paper and currency values usually flow counter to each other--long rates rise on weakening currency. this is the fundamental of international currency. sop, first place to look for a dollar run is the rate of change on a uptrending long bond yield. you oughtta look at these things before you pop off, if i may say.

4/22/2006 08:54:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Percodan. dan on java.......you use that one before?

4/22/2006 08:54:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Java or Percodan?

4/22/2006 08:56:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

doug has succeeded in getting me mumbling to myself.
my apologies for my contibutions to being seriously off link.

4/22/2006 08:58:00 PM  
Blogger Brett Blatchley said...

The comment threads on the "Belmont Club" are generally of very high quality.

However, this thread is very disappointing: those who want to "chat" should find a more appropiate place for it.

4/22/2006 08:59:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Percodan:
A doc in my hometown went flyin high one nite over the village doin acrobatics.
...ended up crash landing in a dry wheat field.
And lived.
I woulda burned, for sure.

4/22/2006 08:59:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

What does Russia have to do with our Dollar debate, ash? Is you just flinging the smorgasboard at the room, or something ?

4/22/2006 09:00:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4/22/2006 09:03:00 PM  
Blogger fred said...

Guys, after the surgery they had me on oxycodone while in the hospital and sent me home after four days with a bottle of them. I HATE THE STUFF. I suffer all the worst side-effects of this narcotic pain med: fierce hot flashes, weird dreams, and very bad constipation. I stopped taking it as soon as I got home. Used extra strength tylenol and gradually got that crap out of my system. Told the wife to get rid of the oxycodone.

I derive neither inspiration from it nor satisfactory pain relief from it relative to its negative side effects.

4/22/2006 09:03:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I meant my GM question wrt Moore and entitlements.
Tripped on the Rabbit, somehow.

4/22/2006 09:05:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Damn, I must've missed it. We're offending the thread, didja notice.

4/22/2006 09:06:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

fred,
Neither my wife nor I can tolerate it either:
Luckily our hospital uses the old standby, Moriphine:
Works perfectly with pain, and when the pain goes away, Tylenol is fine.
Drug Wars or something crazy going on there.
The two times I had Codeine it worked fine too.

4/22/2006 09:08:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

9:06 PM:
fred needs advice:
he just got back from the horsepital.

4/22/2006 09:09:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Horse Spittle for Priest.

4/22/2006 09:10:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Oh yes--saw it--you made the point already, tho--the $1.5K legacy cost per vehicle. And the "work rooms". Gad--have you looked at Toyota's stock chart lately? 45 degrees, for a couple years--

4/22/2006 09:11:00 PM  
Blogger Brett Blatchley said...

Some people are too dense to take the hint: Wretchard?

4/22/2006 09:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

But did the big rise in Bennies happen after that movie?
(I've never seen it, just heard, I think.)

4/22/2006 09:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

brett,
You might try reading all the useful links, and I'll try to cool down.

4/22/2006 09:16:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

GM still got a lotta cash--it just can't afford to err anymore, while Toyota can frolic in the aisles.

4/22/2006 09:17:00 PM  
Blogger allen said...

starling david hunter,

Depends

"I gotta wear a pair of Depends on my drive down from Malibu to the set of my hit show “Two and a Half Men.”'

CHARLIE SHEEN INVESTIGATES: THE IRANIAN MILITARY BUILDUP

http://dicklist.blogspot.com/

4/22/2006 09:19:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

But When was the movies, and when did they really start to add all the bennies?
Last time I'll ask that one, Brett.
Sorry.

4/22/2006 09:19:00 PM  
Blogger Brett Blatchley said...

doug, I have read the useful posts and I noticed that the noise out numbers the useful at least 5 to 1 now.

I read the archives and I don't need people like you wasting my time.

GO FIND A CHAT ROOM!!!!!

4/22/2006 09:19:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Oh, "Roger and Me"--El Blubberero's first hit--yes, it did hurt GM. Don't have any numbers, tho--Goo do, I'm azure.

4/22/2006 09:19:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

's okay, doug--i at least find you amusing. But i've never been the least bit tasteful.

4/22/2006 09:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Don't just count, read all the links, if we both shut up, that will be a service, won't it?

4/22/2006 09:24:00 PM  

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