Monday, December 12, 2005

Breaking: Violence breaks out again in Cronulla

Many emergency vehicles are converging on the site of the Sydney beach riots. Radio reporters are suggested a large number of "incidents" are taking place. Car windows have been smashed and bloodied individuals have been sighted by radio reporters. Residents are being advised to stay at home. More as information becomes available.

Several cars have been pulled over by policemen and persons have been arrested. The cars have been attacked by baseball bats. One witnesses is reporting by cell phone from behind bushes and trees.

Now there are reports that the attackers are from the largely Muslim suburb of Lakemba. Unconfirmed reports say the 'youths' are attacking cars and individuals at random. More unconfirmed reports that a mosque has been attacked. These reports are being compiled while listening to live coverage on 2GB. You can listen online at this site.

Commentary

Too early to tell now but it looks like the Lebanese gangs have struck back. The radio reporters are talking about "white Australians". The PC front is fraying. People are angry and I don't blame them. But the cops can't cope with the guerilla tactics because the raid on Cronulla has been in the kind of hit and run that was reported in Paris.

Interesting. Very interesting. I think Oz is the middle of the biggest political crisis of the decade. This is going to polarize the population, not fatally, but as never before. More importantly, it has made the issue of Muslim immigration and impossible one to ignore.

Look for this to spread because the modus operandi of the 'youths' is to fan out and hit other areas. Lebanese Christians are calling in and saying that they're different from Lebanese Muslims. There's a Lebanese Christian who is on and saying "they've taken Christmas away from us". Multiculturalism may not be dead, but it's certainly taken a hell of a ding.

My comment from the previous post about 8 hours before this news broke:

My two cents worth on the Maroubra beach riots (Eastern suburbs) is this. There's a perception, justified or not, among some Anglo Australians that authorities are not cracking down hard enough on Middle Eastern gangs, who are in Western Sydney. Some days ago, a Lebanese gang supposedly attacked lifeguards, who are an iconic part of Australian beach culture. That's a little bit like spitting on the Flag and writing grafitti on the Liberty Bell. So guys revved up by beer decided it wasn't just Miller Time, but payback time.

I have no doubt that some of the Middle Eastern guys beat up were innocent. But that's what happens when perceived political correctness undermines public confidence. We rely on the state to dispense justice, when that is thought to fail then mob rule steps in and punishes innocent and guilty alike.

I've been warning about this for some time now, both with respect to the torture debate and in an old post called the Three Conjectures. Like most people in Oz, I have Muslim or Middle Eastern friends and the way I got it figured is if we don't start cracking down on the Osamas and the Zawahiris and the al-Arians because they are draped in this bogus human rights shield, then the Joe Samadis and the Bill Mansours of the world are gonna start catching it. What's the use of being innocent if the guilty go scot free? One day if a nuke goes off in Sydney or Manhattan all the bets are off.

I get a little emotional sometimes watching these peacenik types defend blatant murderers because by frustrating justice they are building up tectonic pressures that will go snap one day, and it won't be their necks at the end of a rope. What the world needs isn't the fake sympathy of the Euro-human rights crowd but justice. They should remember that in the absence of justice there is only revenge.

Little did I know what was coming 8 hours later, a little sooner than I thought.

144 Comments:

Blogger Papa Bear said...

Over the weekend I was reading about the issue on freerepublic.com

What I gather is that the "immigrant" gangs are trying to conquer turf, and make it "theirs", much like they have turned the Paris "estates" into "no-go" areas. There have been incidents on the beaches, and elsewhere.

The specific tactic that I've noticed involves small teams of 3-4 gang members harassing people. The small units are part of much larger groups of 30-40. When any team meets resistance, they call in the whole platoon via cellphone (using group text messaging?), so that any small group of Aussie men standing up to the thugs is suddenly surrounded by dozens of thugs.

This seems to be in alignment with the historical tactics of Arab fighters: concentrate on mobility and communication, and draw out the opposition to fight in small groups which can be suddenly swarmed.

The only way to fight against such tactics will be for the Aussie homeboys to adopt similar tactics, but on a larger scale

12/12/2005 05:01:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

Interesting events.

Apparently there is one particular ethnic group that refuses to assimilate anywhere on earth. Or if they do, it is merely a covert exercise.

12/12/2005 05:07:00 AM  
Blogger ShrinkWrapped said...

Curiously, the New York Times does not have this story on the front page of their web site. It must be incredibly confusing for the multi-culturists not to know how to spin this.

12/12/2005 05:08:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

The interesting thing to me, listening to the frantic voices over the radio, was how the quickly the veneer of PC dropped. Phrases like "white Australians" and "we Lebanese Christians not those Muslims" and "terrorists" were spoken without so much as a thought. One Lebanese Christian lady said the media has been feeding the public BS by referring to everyone as "Lebanese", saying they had forgotten the critical qualifier.

And this was greasy kid stuff. All the guys out there who've been in tighter spots know that this is absolutely nothing compared to the stress of mortal danger. One of the unintended, or perhaps naively unanticipated consequences of Political Correctness is that it has forced fear and resentment underground. And its authors think that because it is out of sight, then it out of mind. Wrong. Fear, like a beast, will leap out from cover in a heartbeat. The difference between a civilized gathering and a mob is simply one of attitude.

The biggest problem caused by PC is that it prevents us -- and by that I mean everyone, including Muslims -- from facing the problem. It just festers and fester until it supurrates and bursts. This isn't kindness. It's cruelty of the worst kind. The excuse for it is that people 'mean well', but sometimes I begin to doubt even that.

12/12/2005 05:25:00 AM  
Blogger Barry Meislin said...

It must be incredibly confusing for the multi-culturists not to know how to spin this.

Indeed, but Juan Cole's doing his bit.

12/12/2005 05:31:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Juan Cole says his site provides "Informed Commentary". If he performs as advertised then the more you know about a subject, the more you are impressed by Cole's depth of knowledge. This one area in which I am arguably far better informed then he is. He should find another title for his website.

12/12/2005 05:35:00 AM  
Blogger Salt Lick said...

Are these outbreaks connected to the rioters' frustration with the Coalition's recent successes in Iraq? In other words, have the rioters been gloating at Coalition setbacks and believing MSM reports of failure, only to realize the onset of yet another round of successful elections, imam condemnation of suicide bombing, as well as more Sunni cooperation, indicates "their" side is losing?

12/12/2005 05:38:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

It's a "National Shame" when the Aussies Riot.
What's the label given when it's Muslims?
"Business as Usual?"
...oh I forgot, no label needed, just pretend it's not real.

12/12/2005 05:41:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Salt Lick,

No not directly. The proximate cause has been a kind of Shark vs Jets dynamic that has evolved over the last 15 years. A number of Lebanese Muslim gangs have been marauding and were famously raping white gals fairly frequently. A number were arrested but there are already liberal campaigns to get them out. Most recently, these youths have been hanging out at Maroubra beach where they ran into the surfing crowd. A few days ago, a gang of 40 Lebanese Muslims took over a beach to play soccer and were asked to leave by the lifeguards. The 40 (what is it about 40? Forty Thieves?) beat the lifeguards, one into unconsciousness. Then about 5,000 white guys showed up yesterday and chased anyone bearing a resemblance to the Lebanese Muslims into the toilets and pelted them with stuff. These were the so-called 'race-riots', but understand that unless Lebanese Muslims are a separate race from Lebanese Christians, it's not quite so.

I guess these Lebanese Muslim gangsters had to show who was boss and so they descended on Maroubra and trashed the place. Smashed cars, beat up people. Destroyed property. That's really the gang's weakness. They've gotta show that they are top dog. Just gotta.

The PC crowd haven't revved up yet so the anger is still raw, but I expect the papers to be pouring all the oil they can over the waters. Unfortunately for the PC crowd, the deodorant they peddle is often overpowered by their choice of models.

12/12/2005 05:50:00 AM  
Blogger nonomous said...

wrechard,

>This one area in which I am arguably far better informed then he is.

I'm interested in better understanding the context. What is the geography? Is this considered an urban area? Is the 'behind beach' housing high rent or low rent? Is the beach unique for surfing qualities? Where are the muslim gangs housed? Why are they located there?

12/12/2005 05:53:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Will these Aussie riots continue "Spontaneously" for the next twenty some days, or will the Government clamp down before that can happen?

We see again that tactics developed by Mohammedans in the ME being transplanted to both Europe and now, Austrailia. In both Regions the Civil Authorities seem stymied by the Mohammedan organization and communication capabilities.

In each case the sparking incident was minor, perhaps manufactured, and creates bedlam far beyond a cause and effect pattern.

Are the rioters true "jihadists" or just 'useful idiots', being utilized by the evil machinations of Mohammedans hiding behind a curtain or in a mountain cave.

Does it make a difference?

12/12/2005 05:54:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"These were the so-called 'race-riots', but understand that unless Lebanese Muslims are a separate race from Lebanese Christians, it's not quite so."
---
The Lebanese Christians I know act like wonderful members of the human race.
The Lebanese Muslims I read about, don't...

12/12/2005 05:58:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

nonomous,

Maroubra beach is right next to the famous Bondi and Cogee beaches. Spectacular place just 20 minutes from downtown Sydney. Faces the Tasman sea. You come down from cliffs lined with upscale or upper middle class homes to sand and heavy surf. A lot of rips, sometimes wild water.

It's an iconic place for Australian kids. The phrase that comes to mind when I think of those Lebanese Muslim gangs pushing around the bikini babes is "they're tearing down the place where I grew up, like pouring brandy in a dixie cup". Kinda sacrilege.

In a way it's sad. Australia was an innocent place. No harm could come to you. And though I knew that harm could come to anyone, still it was nice to see people who lived in a kind of warm bubble of decency. Like Narnia I guess, before the White Witch. But I hope I've answered your question.

12/12/2005 06:00:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"In both Regions the Civil Authorities seem stymied by the Mohammedan organization and communication capabilities."
---
They're stymied because we no longer communicate in English.
We speak PCeasy.

12/12/2005 06:02:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

desert Rat,

I think they'll continue because the tactical skill in hit and run has already been demonstrated. And as I said, they've just got to prove themselves top dogs. It's a psychology thing.

Now if you go to Tim Blair's site, you'll get a sense of what Aussies are like. There's something of the residual "working class" British thing in them that makes them suspicious and cunning. So they've never bought into the PC thing any more than their forefather bought into the droning organ temperance wowsers of the early 20th century. Did you know Australia had an insurrection called the Rum Rebellion? There was a time when early settlers preferred to be paid in rum. So my guess is that if the Lebanese Muslims try to play the macho game with Aussies it will be psychologically intolerable. They'll go berserk, and while they are too civilized to really hurt the guys who live out in Lakemba, clustered around their mosque, any further riots will drive stake deeper into the heart of multiculturalism.

Listen, I heard guys on the radio asking to call out the army. I know this is adrenaline talking, but in an Aussie context that's serious stuff. And the reason is probably because they don't trust the New South Wales government, which is to Oz what California is to the US.

12/12/2005 06:07:00 AM  
Blogger erp said...

The pressure that had been building finally blew. It was inevitable that the reaction would be in the anglosphere where law and order is the norm and rioting is not.

We are winning and even the Moslem yoots know it. Israel is planning on taking out Iran's vaunted nukes and this time, I don't think the UN will start any blather about it.

12/12/2005 06:11:00 AM  
Blogger erp said...

The pressure that had been building finally blew. It was inevitable that the reaction would be in the anglosphere where law and order is the norm and rioting is not.

We are winning and even the Moslem yoots know it. Israel is planning on taking out Iran's vaunted nukes and this time, I don't think the UN will start any blather about it.

12/12/2005 06:12:00 AM  
Blogger nonomous said...

wrechard,

Thanks for the info.

How far away is the closest mosque?

Are government housing projects involved (as in France)?

I'm puzzled by the Lebanese Christian's comment that 'they have taken away Christmas'. Can you make that a bit easier to understand? Is it a matter of the media lumping Christian and Muslim together, or a matter of Muslim mobs enforcing dhimmitude in Lebanese neighborhoods?

12/12/2005 06:21:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

There are bunch of mosques in Sydney, but the one in question is about 30 miles out west, in the Lakemba area. There aren't many high rise public housing complexes, but a fair number of these gangster guys are on welfare.

Now the Lebanese Christian gal was referring to the fact that the press, in order to avoid using the right words, uses broader descriptions like "of Middle Eastern origin" or even "Lebanese" to describe these gangsters. One guy called into the radio station while the Maroubra attacks were happening and berated the announcer for covering the attacks, saying it would "inflame" the listeners. For many liberals there's no problem that can't be solved by censorship. Basically, the press has been pouring cologne over this whole mess. But by using these imprecise words and refusing to name the real perps, the press was also putting a broader category of people under suspicion, and that's what this Lebanese Christian gal was getting at. She was being tarred with the broad brush by a media afriad to use the precise description. Interesting when you look at it that way.

The Christmas remark means exactly what it means in America. The Left has declared war on Christian religious symbols in their sneaky cultural way and make a big show of this whole Ramadan thing, which is OK in and of itself. But you can see how a Lebanese Christian, already on the outs in her homeland, might object to the same process being repeated in the New Country.

12/12/2005 06:30:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Fjordman has an interesting entry on his blog titled The Second Fall of Rome. In there he elucidates on how Muslim go about plundering entire civilizations. (Might be pertinent to discussions of what we're seeing in OZ, Europe, and elsewhere).



.
.
Muslims will be heavily concentrated in the major cities, and the dhimmi native population will retreat into the countryside. I believe something similar took place in the Balkans during Ottoman Turkish rule. The old nation states will thus slowly die, as their major cities, which constitute the brain and "head" of its culture, are cut off from the rest of the body.
.
.
At the same time, Europeans [insert Westerners] pay some of the highest tax rates in the world. We should remind our authorities that the most important task of the state - some would even claim it should be the only task of the state - is to uphold the rule of law. Since it is becoming pretty obvious that this is no longer the case in Eurabia, we have to question whether these taxes are legitimate anymore, or whether they are simply disguised Jizya paid in the form of welfare to Muslims and our new Eurocrat aristocracy.
.
.

12/12/2005 06:31:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

mika,

Not whole civilizations. One commenter at Tim Blair's site noted how these 'youths' gave the Sydney suburb of Cabramatta a wide berth. Cabramatta is a Vietnamese enclave. His take was that the 'youths' knew better than to take on hard cases who had grown up in the Third World because these dudes knew which end of a shiv was sharpened and were not above giving you the 21 barrel salute.

And I think that speaks to missing ingredient in all this. You've got all these dim bulbs who've been positively emboldened by the pusillanimous behavior of the Left into unsustainable aggressive behavior. But they behave in a right civilized way towards the Vietnamese because any idiot knows what would happen if they tried the baseball bat routine in Cabramatta. To bring this Clash of Civilizations to a peaceful conclusion it's important to restore the legitimate immune system of societies to troublemakers. That's not all it takes, but it's a necessary part of the solution.

12/12/2005 06:38:00 AM  
Blogger nonomous said...

There are some interesting 1st person accounts at
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/009393.php#comments

Included is the standard MSM message: "It's been simmering for a few years but I think the latest incident here - people have really let loose their inherent racism and violence … The only thing I am worried about is that it's going to further play on the minds of young Australian Muslims," (Kuranda Seyit, Director of the Forum on Austrilian-Islamic Relations.

Elsewhere, the Daily Telegraph is quoted: "Residents said the gang appeared to be well organised with some members smashing cars while others followed closely in getaway vehicles."

12/12/2005 06:38:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

I've gotta hit the rack now. It's about one dark thirty in the morning here.

12/12/2005 06:39:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Director of the Forum on Austrilian-Islamic Relations"
---
Real Experts at that, like CAIR.
;-)

12/12/2005 06:45:00 AM  
Blogger Goesh said...

Aussies aren't armed, big difference there - the first time a gang of islamic thugs came into most any American neighborhood burning and smashing, many would be left dead on the street

12/12/2005 06:49:00 AM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Goesh,

If it comes to mortal danger, there's no question it will get ugly. Guns or not, the Aussies are a physical people. From what I can tell the Left is in total damage control mode. They've got too much invested in this multiculturalism thing and it's all going down the tubes. So they're doing the worst possible thing and burying this problem deeper under their mumbo-jumbo. But that'll make it worse.

The only hope for a soft landing is for the government, the Australian Federal Government, if need be, to demonstrate the rule of law. That means cracking down real hard on those Lebanese Muslim gangs, ripping right out of their homes, closing the mosque if need be, etc. Deporting people by the boatload. And. And arresting anyone who acts as a vigilante because there should be no need to act as a vigilante if -- and its a big if -- the government does what it's supposed to do.

Given the politics in Oz, that's unlikely to happen. So my prediction is that things will get worse before they get better.

12/12/2005 06:55:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

I hope we can get back to the infectious disease model for the Muslim youth problem. Sure bird flu may be more insidious, but the government doesn’t invite birds to come in and live on the public dole, birds don’t make it a point of shunning your culture, and birds don’t chase you down the street and clobber you with a baseball bat either. We need to inoculate these beasts or quarantine them now before their terror masters in Iran can lend them a helping nuke.

BTW, I always knew that the average Aussie wouldn’t stand for that kind of bullshit.

12/12/2005 06:58:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

This looks bad.
Hopeless, in fact.
We need to pull out of Australia, immediately.

12/12/2005 07:12:00 AM  
Blogger Cobalt Blue said...

"In the absence of justice there is only revenge."

We should be so lucky. Usually all that is left is cruel farce.

12/12/2005 07:17:00 AM  
Blogger Evan said...

wretchard said:

They'll go berserk, and while they are too civilized to really hurt the guys who live out in Lakemba, clustered around their mosque, any further riots will drive stake deeper into the heart of multiculturalism.

Mark Steyn once had the same optimism about what would happen to multiculturalism in the U.S. after 9/11. He later recanted. Self-hatred among the chattering classes runs alarmingly deep.

12/12/2005 07:22:00 AM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

I note that Howard has made the unequivocal statement that so called “white supremacists” belong in the 1930’s Berlin. Perhaps whilst he is tar brushing certain ethnic Caucasians, he could bother to say that certain non-white’s belong in the 16th century… such vicious racism must stop. Just because you’re white doesn’t give you the right to impugn your race any more than being black gives you the right to exclaim ‘n!gger, n!gger’.

Let the Wog’s wear headscarves in Lebanon, if you want to identify with those who killed our brothers and sisters, if you want to consort with those who killed our brothers and sisters, if you want to behave like those who killed our brothers and sisters, then prepare to be treated like those who killed our brothers and sisters.

12/12/2005 07:31:00 AM  
Blogger Cosmo said...

Shrinkwrapped, nonomous, evan and others:

Yahoo/AP reports: "Arabs in Australia Retaliate for Violence"

Despite the decade-long buildup to this, and the chronology laid out by Wretchard's 5:50 am comment, it looks like the dominant narrative is setting like cement.

We might THINK the PC-multi-culti-Left SHOULD be in retreat over this. But, like almost everything else, it will be spun to reinforce their worldview: that of the 'other' under constant seige by intolerant, dominant white-Christian-eurocentric oppression.

12/12/2005 07:33:00 AM  
Blogger EddieP said...

The government needs to crack down hard on lawbreakers of either side. Will the PC bunch there demand no racial profiling? Will they compensate by focusing on old people like they do here in the states?

12/12/2005 07:34:00 AM  
Blogger John B said...

Wretchard:

"What's the use of being innocent if the guilty go scot free?"

"....by frustrating justice they are building up tectonic pressures that will go snap one day, and it won't be their necks at the end of a rope."

Congrats - you have said all that needs to be said in these two sentences.

12/12/2005 07:35:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

evan
it is not the chatterers, but the listeners that have to reach a tipping point.

In the US we are far from a reactionary tipping point. The President and Congress are in league with the MSM to "contain" anti Mohammedan news.

Wow! Just saw some more footage of the UK oil depot fire. While it is claimed to be totally accidental, though the cause is unknown, just think of how awful an attack on oil industry infrastructure COULD be.

Just who is guarding the Panama pipeline now a days, anyway?

It sure isn't US troops in uniform.

12/12/2005 07:39:00 AM  
Blogger geoffgo said...

Wretchard,

So if the situation worsens, I guess we'll quickly see how many guns are actually in citizens' hands. If firearms have to be used, it would do wonders in disabusing the gun-control crowd of their suicidal PC attitude.

12/12/2005 08:07:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

My girlfriend was watching the news from Australia last night, turned to me and said, "This has been a miserable year for the world."

And it has. Our illusions are dying. Our innocence is being stripped away. The world's Shires are no longer safe, and everywhere we look the sickness is spreading.

The real global pandemic has nothing to do with birds. The real crisis is one of faith.

"Life was only a dream, and all dreams had to end...And on distant Tremalking, the word began to spread that the Time of Illusions was at an end."
Robert Jordan, The Wheel of Time

12/12/2005 08:27:00 AM  
Blogger playah grrl said...

Revenge is a kind of wild justice.
--Francis Bacon

12/12/2005 08:28:00 AM  
Blogger Papa Bear said...

The latest article from The Australian lay the blame on white supremacists and neo-Nazis.

"NSW Premier Morris Iemma announced the creation of a taskforce to hunt down suspected right-wing instigators..."

"...Fadi Rahman, who runs the Icra Youth Centre at Lidcombe, said a "racial vendetta" was at the centre of the violence and that revenge attacks would continue. "Unless something is done, this is going to turn into another Paris riot," Mr Rahman said."

12/12/2005 08:30:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

Reader reaction to the riots at The Advertiser: www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17538160%255E421,00.html

Quite the grab-bag of local opinion and backround.

12/12/2005 08:35:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Faith in government, faith in the press, faith in decency, faith in restraint: they are all dying, and if we let them they will not go quietly.

We do not have many fig leaves left.

The Chinese word for 'crisis' consists of two symbols: the symbol for 'danger', and the symbol for 'opportunity.'

I know we are in danger, but the thought that haunts me is, "Opportunity for whom?"

I have resigned myself to war, but what do I know?

12/12/2005 08:47:00 AM  
Blogger Papa Bear said...

The thing to figure out now is "Who benefits from this unrest?"

12/12/2005 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Whoever is best organized to take advantage of these events. Care to speculate who it might be?

12/12/2005 09:10:00 AM  
Blogger moderationist said...

I believe that the Israelis have technology to shut down cellphone communications if they are being used like in Paris.

12/12/2005 09:12:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Frontpage NYTimes:

Racial Violence in Australia.
Thousands of white youths attacked people they believed were of Arab descent at a Sydney beach. Later, Arabs retaliated in the suburbs

12/12/2005 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Anybody found any pictures of any "Arabs" doing anything untoward in Oz?
Hundreds of Racist Whites is all I've seen so far.

12/12/2005 09:22:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Why would you want to shut down their cellphone communications when those same cellphone communications give you the perfect tool by which to trace back the criminals? How hard do you think it will be to track back calls going through a particular relay tower within a specific time interval to Ahmad's cell phone? Not very hard.

12/12/2005 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

The riots began Sunday after rumors circulated that youths of Lebanese descent were responsible for an attack last weekend on two lifeguards at Cronulla Beach. Police said the assault was not believed to be racially motivated.

12/12/2005 09:27:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

The NYTimes has had lots of practice producing these same kind of reports in their coverage of Israel. Man bites dog.. Nothing new there.

12/12/2005 09:30:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

''Arab Australians have had to cope with vilification, racism, abuse and fear of a racial backlash for a number of years, but these riots will take that fear to a new level,'' said Roland Jabbour, chairman of the Australian Arabic Council.

12/12/2005 09:30:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/12/2005 09:32:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

I Hate the dog race.
Almost ripped off my name.
Doug

12/12/2005 09:33:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

"Racial Violence in Australia.
Thousands of white youths attacked people they believed were of Arab descent at a Sydney beach. Later, Arabs retaliated in the suburbs"

Oooh. Nice "cycle of violence" set-up. That sh** never gets old, does it?

12/12/2005 09:34:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

From the excellent link Trish supplied, you find this perfect encapsulation of the multi-culti mindset:

Multiculturalism is the best thing that has happened to this country. I like the diversity of food and language we have.

That is what the left believes multiculturalism is: diversity of food and language and colorful clothing. What they don't understand is that it is first and foremost a difference of values.

There is no such thing as contradictory food.

This guy goes on:

Before multiculturalism started to make a difference, this country was quite a boring place really.

The boredom of peace: how undesirable! Well, it certainly is more exciting, now. I hope he's happy.

12/12/2005 09:34:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

They never have trouble figuring out the chicken and egg conunudrum:
Always starts with a White Chicken crushing a Brown Egg.

12/12/2005 09:36:00 AM  
Blogger Red River said...

One of my best friends is Aussie.

He's only 5'7" but is the toughest person I know. He is a one man bar clearing machine. He has six other brothers he says are tougher than he is. They love to fight.

Its now out of control. Unless the Police and Army are on the street come morning, the Aussies will be out in force.

Too civilized needs to be parsed.

Burning down some homes, breaking a few bones, destroying all personal property - where is the line?

Behind all this is the Bali Bombings, the sham trials, and the Muslim Gangs.

12/12/2005 09:50:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

Not entirely OT...

Don't do us anymore favors, Madame Secretary. Please.

Andrew McCarthy at NRO today:

[...]

In a contentious overseas voyage last week, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice found herself pelted with questions about torture, coercive interrogation tactics, and "black site" prisons. The pelting was carried out by haughty Eurocrats — the kind who sneer publicly about American behavior even as they pray privately for continued American protection.

Game-face on, Rice embarked, walking a fine but spirited line. She appropriately maintained that the U.S. does not condone torture, but steadfastly refused to give ground on the obsession du jour of Europe, the American Left, and Senator John McCain: civil rights for international terrorists. Specifically, the right of those who lustily butcher, behead, and bomb innocents to be spared upon capture from any measure of physical discomfort or insult to their self-esteem.

Nevertheless, after three days of tendentious grilling, the Secretary of State's resolve seemed to wither. Last Wednesday in Kiev, she gave her hosts what they wanted to hear. In remarks especially noteworthy because State Department officials reportedly egged inquiring journalists on, Rice asserted without qualification that the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Cruel, Inhuman and Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT) "prohibits, of course, cruel, inhumane [sic] and degrading treatment." She further declared that " [a]s a matter of U.S. policy, [American] obligations under [UNCAT] ... extend to U.S. personnel wherever they are, whether they are in the United States or outside of the United States." (Italics mine.)

Rice's statements were both wrong and extremely unwise. Policy aside, they are a wholly inaccurate reflection of U.S. law. They do not just inject further confusion into an already profoundly confused debate over prisoner treatment. They also elevate Leftist preferences — i.e., the attitudes of people who accept no adult responsibility for the demands of even their own security — over our Constitution's careful procedure for imposing international obligations on the American people.

[...]

12/12/2005 09:51:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

red river,
New Orleans had the guy in the Leaky Boat.
The Aussies have Russell Crowe!

12/12/2005 09:53:00 AM  
Blogger Red River said...

"I get a little emotional sometimes watching these peacenik types defend blatant murderers because by frustrating justice they are building up tectonic pressures that will go snap one day, and it won't be their necks at the end of a rope. What the world needs isn't the fake sympathy of the Euro-human rights crowd but justice. They should remember that in the absence of justice there is only revenge."

Just go into any Gas Station/Burger Joint in East Texas. A lot of people are just waiting for an excuse. I imagine Oz is not much different.

12/12/2005 09:56:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

The opportunity will go to whomever can manipulate this racial re-entrenchment to their advantage, and alternatively to whomever can manipulate the public disgust at this re-entrenchment to their advantage.

The former plays into the bin Ladenist narrative of Muslimness as an identity. Once a young man filters everything through that prism, he is half-way there--halfway to a jihadist rejection of the West.

Of course, the pendulum swings both ways. People say "everybody loses" when things like this happen, but that is not precisely true. When the pendulum of racial violence starts swinging, it is the minority that loses. See Hutus v. Tutsis.

The latter "opportunity" is a much harder position from which to gain victory. The multicultis will try to win by damning the racism of whites*, but that will only make the problem worse and lead to a solution of the first type. On the other hand, Champions of Unity can only succeed if people believe in their message. Their challenge is to articulate the values we should all embrace; they must describe and hold high the banner under which we should all unite. But as Mark Steyn would say, you can't assimilate into a nullity. How many Western children take in with their mothers' milk the lesson not to trust in their Western values?**

What we need is a message of tough love, conditional acceptance of outsiders, and a vision of good and evil. But how many leaders would dare say such a message out loud?


*This is an implicit admission that Arabs are of a lesser composition, since appeals to decency only work with whites.

**I'm afraid the removal of values has caused the removal of deliberation. After all, what is left to deliberate when one has no values? Reaction is all, and it's all that's Left (as Mr. Atos once said).

12/12/2005 10:10:00 AM  
Blogger enscout said...

aristides: Re: your 8:27 post.

This great dragon – the ancient serpent called the Devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world – was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.

…but terror will come to the earth and the sea. For the Devil has come down to you in great anger, and he knows that he has little time left.

12/12/2005 10:13:00 AM  
Blogger StoutFellow said...

aristides

*This is an implicit admission that Arabs are of a lesser composition, since appeals to decency only work with whites.


Not at all my friend. It is a simple statement of the multi-culturalist fundamental tenet: All cultures are of equal worth, except the dominant, white, Liberal, Judeo-Christian culture. It is to be despised as the cause of all the misery in the world. (Please note the capital 'L' in Liberal)

An ancillary tenet is that the minority is always righteous and deserving (this follows from Lyndon Johnson's notion of 'equality of outcome'. Thus, NPR is very concerned today about the fate of the Sunni minority in Iraq. As pure as driven snow, the Sunni are being tortured the Evil Shia majority.

Sadly the reaction to events in Australia is quickly falling in to the basic strategy of Leftist/Multicultis - the strategy plied so effectively by Robert Mugabe - Get Whitey.

12/12/2005 11:03:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

At least Mugabe ain't white!

12/12/2005 11:18:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Stoutfellow,

You are right, but underlying those tenets is the assumption that minorities, as beings of free-will, are inferior.

This assumption is built out of the explanatory nature of multiculturalism. When minorities act indecently, the explanation is racism or impoverishment or hurt feelings. All of these explanations connote a debilitating reactionism and an absence of free will.

On one side of the coin the multicultis presume that human nature is predominantly moral, that whites, in acting out in accordance with their dominant role, go against their nature and should be morally condemned. On the other side of the coin, where the minorities reside, human nature is inextricably tied to a person's race or status, so that all actions are pre-excused before they ever take place.

Now you tell me, which is more complementary: being defined as a man, whose free will demands responsibility for moral choices, or a helpless child whose tantrums are excused as a constant feature of the landscape of oppression?

12/12/2005 11:18:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

Pass the PORK RINDS folks...

this is the REASON FOR THE HANDLE....

the virus called "palestinia-reflux" is in full bloom..

down under? wow... last place I was looking for it...

btw, the french riots are offically over, and at last count:

As many as 60 cars still burn nightly in France

PARIS, Dec 8 (AFP) - Between 40 and 60 cars are still being burned nightly in France more than three weeks after a wave of suburban violence subsided, a senior interior ministry official said Thursday.

PASS THE PORK RINDS

let's see...

car bomb in lebanon murders anti-syrian reporter
40-60 cars still burn NIGHTLY in Paris
IRAQ
Afganistan
palestinian shoot rockets from gaza
palestinians fire at several outposts and patrols
palestinans stabs and murders 20 yr old
palestinians murder 5 in suicide bombing
iran says wipe israel of map, then says move them to germany
australia
Hundreds are now reported dead from the violence yesterday in eastern Uzbekistan
link: http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/05/death-toll-rises-in-uzbekistan.html

all very googleable...

pass the pork rinds, please

is a message being sent folks?

""On Saturday, the same day UN nuclear watchdog chief ElBaradei received the Nobel peace prize, he appeared to warn Israel not to bomb Iranian atomic reactors.

"You cannot use force to prevent a country from obtaining nuclear weapons. By bombing them half to death, you can only delay the plans," he was quoted as saying by the Oslo newspaper Aftenposten. "But they will come back, and they will demand revenge."

is the real message to the west, DON'T REACT with force? Resistance is Futile...

but wait, that message is also going EAST

suicide bombers on the loose in Bangladesh movie theatres

China!

Al-Qaeda's deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri has urged mujahideen to attack oil sites in Muslim states and said Osama bin Laden's battle against the West was only just beginning.

"I bring a message of joy to all Muslims and mujahideen that al Qaeda, thanks to God, is spreading and expanding and strengthening," Zawahri said in a video posted on a Web site frequently used by terrorists.

Editor's jailing tests Afghan democracy
Kim Barker CHICAGO TRIBUNE
KABUL, Afghanistan -- The prosecutors say Ali Mohaqeq Nasab deserves to die for what he did. Jailers shaved his head. He was pulled into court wearing handcuffs and leg shackles.
His crime? He is no killer, no kidnapper, no rapist. In a case reminiscent of the strict Taliban era, Nasab has been sentenced to two years in prison for blasphemy, for going against Islam.
And prosecutors are appealing.
"There should be a bigger punishment for him," said Abdul Jamil, who is in charge of prosecuting attorneys in Kabul. "If he intends to keep to what he said, then he should be executed.

freedom of the press at it's best...

Population exchanges are on the horizon... Unilateral withdrawl from "lost lands" has begun..

gaza & a portion two times that of gaza of the west bank has been given to the dogs...

areas of the netherlands of pakiworld and afgan no man's land are dog inhabited...

downtown areas of STOCKHOLM are dog infested..

same with every major european captial... dogs on the prowl

and the dogs shall rule their lands.....

a fence we shall build......

usa, eastern Europe, saudi arabia all are builing fences that would make the israel's look tiny...

yep, pass the pork rinds.. it's getting interesting.

12/12/2005 11:29:00 AM  
Blogger Ash said...

porky worte:

"btw, the french riots are offically over, and at last count:
As many as 60 cars still burn nightly in France"

Here is another statistic for you - In the US an average of 8 children are killed by guns each day.

12/12/2005 11:49:00 AM  
Blogger StoutFellow said...

aristides
Now you tell me, which is more complementary: being defined as a man, whose free will demands responsibility for moral choices, or a helpless child whose tantrums are excused as a constant feature of the landscape of oppression?


Point taken. I don't think multicultis view it this way though. Perhaps because their self-loathing is so great that they can't possibly view themselves as elitist vis-a-vis the 'oppressed'.

WRT to the events in Australia, the question of how the 'first-cause' of the rioting is depicted by the media is of prime importance. Was it initiated by Middle Eastern gangs or by 'White Racist Neo-Nazis'. Thus far it looks like the Media is in Get Whitey mode.

12/12/2005 11:50:00 AM  
Blogger Jimmy said...

Here is how it's being spun on CNN:

"Anti-Arab rioters smash cars, windows in Sydney"

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/12/12/australia.racial.unrest.ap/index.html

12/12/2005 12:25:00 PM  
Blogger Knucklehead said...

Ash,

What has the number of "children killed by guns" got to do with this thread?

I presume your "statistic" comes from some source such as this, where we learn:

The horrific death toll from gunfire in the United States included 2,867 children and teens in 2002-nearly eight deaths a day...

Is there any reason to believe the breakdown of the stat into its component parts has changed from 1999 (Info Please, the most recent stats I could find through cursory searching):

Children Killed by Guns: In 1999, there were 3,385 firearms-related deaths for children ages 0–19 years. They break down as follows: 214 unintentional, 1,078 suicides, 1,990 homicides, 83 for which the intent could not be determined, and 20 due to legal intervention.

That represents a decrease of 518 from 1999 to 2002 or, put another way, a reduction of 15%. Is there

Here's a table for US Deaths by Firearms which shows rather significant declines in rates of death by firearms in the US over the past 30 years.

A table of Deaths By Major Causes shows us that both suicide and homicide rates have trended back down to 1960s levels sinch reaching their highs in the mid to late '70s.

For those curious about such things, here is some information about the causes of death among children and adolescents.

I'm sure there was some point you were trying to make. Perhaps the additional stats will help.

12/12/2005 12:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Pork says,
"gaza & a portion two times that of gaza of the west bank has been given to the dogs..."
---
They gotta eat:
So we (Euros and USA) pay them:
(indirectly through the new "good guys" in power)

. Abbas Approves Monthly Grant To Families of Suicide Bombers.

DEATH BENEFITS [Jonah Goldberg]
More on how the families of suicide bombers will get on the martyr's dole:
Under the new law, the terrorist’s family will be paid a base sum of $250 per month. The law takes into account extended family arrangements commonplace in Arab societies. The families of married terrorists are entitled to an additional $50 per month, and $15 are added for each child, $25 for each parent, and $15 for each brother who lived with the terrorist prior to his death.
Again: The families of the people blown up get nada.
-------------
Andy McCarthy:

And Abbas is supposed to be the "good guy" we prefer to Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad? Great.

For the millionth time I ask – as we preside, day-by-day, over the creation of a terrorist state on Israel’s doorstep – what ever happened to the Bush Doctrine? What ever happened to "You're with us or you're with the terrorists"? Why are we subsidizing the Palestinian Authority?

12/12/2005 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

ash
France has about 60,000,000 people.
That is about 20% of the US population.
Equalizing the 60 French cars a fire each night, would be what 300 burning.
In Phoenix the largest cause of childhood deaths is drowning, usually in back yard pools. Even when the law requires all poolyards to be equipped with safety fences etc.

I would not suggest outlawing cars, guns or pools, would you?

12/12/2005 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Stoutfellow Says,
"Perhaps because their self-loathing is so great that they can't possibly view themselves as elitist vis-a-vis the 'oppressed'."

Tony Blankley in his new book says:
"But that survival instinct is threatened by the multiculturalism and political correctness advocated in media and academe -- and institutionalized in national and European Union laws and regulations for half a century.

Europe's effort at cultural tolerance since World War II slowly morphed into a surprisingly deep self-loathing of Western culture that denied the instinct for cultural and national self-defense.
"

12/12/2005 01:00:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

Yes, knucklehead, the average of children killed by guns in the US appears to have dropped from 16 per day to 8 per day. Does the fact that car burnings decreased in France to 60 a day make French society better or worse then US society/

Now there seem to be problems in Austrailia and Porky gets all gleeful thinking that now maybe the world will wake up and solve the Muslim problem in a way that Germany of the 1940's might be proud, mirroring their approach to the Jewish problem. Do you not see any parallels between these two 'problems'?

12/12/2005 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Nobel Prize Winner:
"By bombing them half to death, you can only delay the plans"
---
What happens if you bomb them completely to death?

12/12/2005 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger Mannning said...

The Aussie security forces should use the cell phone system to trace down every menber of the gangs causing problems. This can be done by name, by number, and by location. While possession of a cell phone is not evidence of being a gang member, every one of the youths there should have their phones examined for call lists in order to identify as many potential members of gangs as possible. Every one of them that is identified should be detained for questioning, and those who are found to have participated in riots and property damage should be jailed, if not deported.

Their parents and religious leaders should be held accountable for the actions of their offspring and if they are encouraging the kids, they should be jailed or deported forthwith, family and all.
Zero tolerance is the slogan. Either shape up or be shipped out.

That goes for the US as well as Australia, or anywhere else in the West.

Zero Tolerance!

12/12/2005 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ash says,
"Do you not see any parallels between these two 'problems'? "
---
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust?

12/12/2005 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

hey manning, does your zero tolerance policy apply to white youhs as well as Arab youths?

12/12/2005 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Christian leaders also expressed outrage. "There is no place in our free, democratic and civil society for racist and mob violence," said Sydney's Anglican Archbishop Peter Jensen.

"We must look to the root causes of this social disharmony, seek authentic information about them and deal with those matters," he added.

CNN

12/12/2005 01:20:00 PM  
Blogger John B said...

On a somewhat different note - Aisha has been posting at LGF with her own personal account of the troubles:

"Whew! Infidels! Has Aisha been busy last night!"

"Aisha gets back from the Masjid, and decides to go for a swim. Of course, Aisha is pious, so she only swims in a full burkha. Heading down to the beach, she sees a gang of kafir dressed up in flags and drinking haraam beer. Oh Allah! Thus the wisdom of the laws of hijab and staying indoors!"

"So there is Aisha running along the beach with her burkha trailing behind her, while a gang of drunken yobs, carrying cricket bats and broken beer bottles are running (or should that be staggering) after her! Oh Allah, protect Aisha from the shaitaan! Aisha decides to confuse them, so she ducks behind an umbrella and sheds her burkha, and continues running dressed only in some lacy black lingerie that she bought for showing self to husband to get husband to "rise for salat", if you know what Aisha means!"

"Anyway, Aisha is running almost nekked down the beach, and what do you know, there is a gang of Muslim brothers! They start screaming that Aisha is an Aussie sharmuta and a whore and saying that they want to rape her! And Aisha screams that she is a pious Muslimah being chased by the kafir, but they do not listen. So Aisha runs onto the street and seeks refuge in a big building that thinks is a church."

"Well, she looks around and there are people in friggin' yarmulkes and zionistish writing all over the joint! Aisha is in a Jew-Masjid! Oh Allah! Aisha feels so dirty! Nearly nekked and surrounded by lecherous old Jews. So she puts on one of those shawl things and runs home dressed as a Jew man! Allah! She will have to make sincere tawbeh for all of this!"

"Aisha feels like a drink now, but that would be haraam. She is just going to have a lie down and some quiet time with the Noble Quaran."

Allahu Akhbar!

12/12/2005 01:21:00 PM  
Blogger ed said...

Hmmmm.

-------------
Now there seem to be problems in Austrailia and Porky gets all gleeful thinking that now maybe the world will wake up and solve the Muslim problem in a way that Germany of the 1940's might be proud, mirroring their approach to the Jewish problem. Do you not see any parallels between these two 'problems'?
-------------

You mean like how muslims want to deal with jews? Or Americans?

Here's a question for you. List me all of the muslim dominant countries where Christian minorities aren't severely oppressed.

You can try the moral equivalence nonsense, but nobody is buying it.

12/12/2005 01:24:00 PM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

ash:

Now there seem to be problems in Austrailia and Porky gets all gleeful thinking that now maybe the world will wake up and solve the Muslim problem in a way that Germany of the 1940's might be proud, mirroring their approach to the Jewish problem. Do you not see any parallels between these two 'problems'?

no quite, i get gleeful that today's nazis are going to get the fate of my cousins, there lies the point of divergence... my murdered cousins never blew themselves up at the german opera or pizza shops while the germans pleaded for peace and tolerance.

the murderer's culture is going to become defensive, if that bother's you i wont pass the pork rinds to you.

12/12/2005 01:33:00 PM  
Blogger Knucklehead said...

Well, Ash, since the largest cause of death among "children" 15-19 years old, at least in the US and by a huge margin, is automobile accidents, then if the stats for causes of death among yutes is remotely similar in France, then I'd say the burning of cars in such prodigious numbers makes France, if not a "better" society, then at least probably somewhat safer for 15-19 year-olds because, well, there are some 21,900 fewer cars to get killed in each year in France (at the average rate of 60/day which, apparently, has been the rough daily average for several years now).

Of course if one is an auto owner and, presumably, pays for auto insurance, one might find that rate of auto-arson a bit of damper on one's quality of life.

I suspect the US to France emmigration numbers would tell us which place is perceived as providing a superior society. I can't find any evidence that emmigration from the US even shows up on statistical radar. The same is true for France except, of course, for Jews there - they apparently are voting with their feet to some degree.

Nonetheless some folks seem worried about the European Brain Drain (some thoughts re: the French Braid Drain at American Thinker).

So far there doesn't seem to be any evidence or concern that the smart and educated are fleeing, or contemplating fleeing, the US.

Whatever. I still fail to find a point in your "8 children per day" stat.

As to "parallels"...

...maybe the world will wake up and solve the Muslim problem in a way that Germany of the 1940's might be proud, mirroring their approach to the Jewish problem.

Perhaps I didn't read the comments carefully enough but I don't recall anyone suggesting the creation of industrial slaughter camps for muslims. And I don't recall anything about Jews running around rioting. And I don't think anyone has ever coined "Judaism has bloody borders".

Not too many parallels I can detect.

12/12/2005 01:38:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

ed, Pork, lets make it real simple for you. You appear to be saying that because some Muslims are causing a problem (suicide bombing, rioting) all Muslims should be punished. Have I got your position correct?

12/12/2005 01:39:00 PM  
Blogger johnny uno said...

aussie, aussie, aussie !!!

Just a little support from the States. Stand firm and don't relent your values, traditions or ways. Decades of great times on the beaches, inject some muslims and, presto, voilence, hatred and intolerence. Anyone see the common denominator yet? Wasn't the aussies who went to Mecca or Beirut and raped women because they refused to show some leg.

P.S. If the Lebanese Christians or any so-called moderate muslims/arabs don't want to be lumped in together with the islamo-fascists then turn them in and stand shoulder to shoulder with your host countrymen to destroy these threats. Remember, coming to Australia, America or anywhere else is a privelege not a right.

12/12/2005 01:43:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

solve the Muslim problem in a way that Germany of the 1940's might be proud

Ash, you must know that your posture in this war, were it universalized, would guarantee such an outcome.

My comment on deliberation is a real concern. The moral high ground is a luxury one can only afford in peacetime. By trying to eradicate the time-tested language of good and evil, and by extension our ability to discern between the two, our well-meaning Leftists, out of boredom and self-indulgence, have practically ensured the realization of Wretchard's three conjectures. What happened in Australia was morally despicable, Ash, but that doesn't change the fact that it was also inevitable.

Racial tension in Australia has been ticking like a bomb for years now. Multiculturalists admonish that there is no bomb, that, in fact, the problem lies in observing that the bomb is there at all. In one respect their fear is well-placed: trying to diffuse the bomb could set it off. What they can't see, what they won't admit, is that ignoring the bomb altogether ensures that it will explode.

We must actively confront the problem, Ash, for the debate will eventually leave the realm of the abstract. Once that happens, populations that have a Muslim problem will impose their own final solutions...as they see fit.

12/12/2005 01:45:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

Aristides, I think that all would admit there is a problem when confronted with what is going on in Austrailia, for example, but the big question, for "mulitculti's" and everyone else, is what to do about it. Generalizing to solutions that involve the phrase "all muslims' takes us into a similar realm as talking aboout "all jews".

12/12/2005 01:51:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

My observation from Los Angeles about the breading of gangs; in particular of foreign speaking gangs, is they do have some criminal advantage.

Usually, unassimilated foreign speaking gang members, tend to have to ability to melt into the woodwork. This makes them more bold and more dangers than domestic speaking gangs.

Quite often the members of foreign speaking gangs use false identities and false addresses. They are difficult to track. Further, when there is a large population of the same foreign speaking groups these gang members can blend in with this pool of non-native speakers and can naturally encrypt their conversations using their language adjusted a bit for key words to disguise the actual conversation. Hence, communciations are encrypted.

Once the foreign speaking gang member commits a crime he can easily melt into the pool of their peers under various methods ("I have a bill collector after me I need a place stay"). They may be able to convince their peers that it is necessary for them to have a weapon for personal protection when said weapon has just been used in a crime. And, some of their peers may be reluctant to provide information to the authorities for various reasons. A typical situation would be foreign speaking person may have over stayed a visa. Thus, although said person knows they are harboring a fugitive they will not provide any information to the authorities at all.

For example, a foreign gang member may have committed a robbery and then quickly disappear into a housing complex of his peers. The police will knock on the door of said houses but will not be able to gain any useful information on the foreign speaking robber. Although the police know approximately where the criminal is located - it's a dead end. This phenomenon can have many combinations. Add some hit and run tactics and the situation can become dangerous in short order.

Conversely, say if a white English speaking Aussie committed a robbery and tried to hide a housing complex he would eventually be exposed by one of people in the complex. This lopsided advantage of foreign gangs breeds more foreign gangs.

All and all, foreign speaking gangs can be quite difficult to dislodge from society.

12/12/2005 02:01:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Are you sure? Is not the problem, in its current iteration, an exclusively Muslim problem? Everywhere you look in the West, Muslims are asserting their own cultural dominance at the expense of their host's. This would be less of a problem were the two value systems complementary. It is dire if they contradict.

In many places Muslims assert their dominance violently, within and without their group, but in many more places they are doing it insidiously--attacking piggie banks, Christmas, etc. As non-Muslims we must confront members of the Muslim community and hold them morally accountable, not to a greater extent than we would ourselves, but not to a lesser extent, either. They are the ones who can diffuse this bomb before all hell breaks loose.

Tolerating the intolerant is not a contradiction in terms, but it is self-defeating in practice. For tolerance to win, we must demand--intolerantly, even--the favor be returned. Ask the Japanese or Germans who lived through "strategic bombing" whether they would have preferred some tough love from the allies before Hitler succeeded in annexing most of Europe.

Multiculturalists are appeasing the cultural imperialists of Islam for the same reason Chamberlain and Baldwin appeased the Germans: to avoid conflict.

The latter's good intentions paved the way to hell, as will the former's...if we let it.

12/12/2005 02:05:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

ledger, one attempt to address the problems you note is to recruit police applicants from the various ethinic groups. In Canada they even allowed mounties to wear turbans.

12/12/2005 02:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Race Riots" are a one way street:
Youths of Lebanese descent were alleged to be behind that assault, but police say there was no apparent racial motive .
. Full story .

12/12/2005 02:51:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"In Canada they even allowed mounties to wear turbans"
---
You Feuhl!
That was a Peter Sellers movie.

12/12/2005 02:53:00 PM  
Blogger Ash said...

doug, a picture just for you

http://www.sikhspectrum.com/092002/baltej.htm

12/12/2005 03:01:00 PM  
Blogger moderationist said...

Some bacon balls would make good projectiles. Or ham balls.

12/12/2005 03:03:00 PM  
Blogger Knucklehead said...

Hold On To Your Hats!

No doubt the primary reason Canada is so peaceful and serene.

12/12/2005 03:04:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

ash it is not what is on the head, it's what is in the head.

If a turban wearing Canadian Cop enforces the Law even handedly, all the better. Many turban wearers are not even Mohammedans, but Hindu. In any case your observation is just a form of subtle racism. I wonder if you realize it?

At any rate a Country that will accept 8 dead children a day, or 2,920 per year, can afford a few troopers KIA each day to maintain it's security.

US deaths in Offensive Battle, so far in the WoT, do not even begin to approach the deaths of US children by misadventure, with firearms, since 9-11.

And the US is REAL serious about that Global WoT, as proven by our inaction.

12/12/2005 03:05:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Those turban wearers are Sikh, ash.
Your assumption that they were Mohammedans prove the point of unjustified racism.
In Arizona, right after 9-11 a Sikh was shot and killed, mistaken for a Monammedan by a skinhead racist, because of his turban.
He made the same assumptions you seem to have made.
He rots in jail, now, the Sikh gentleman is dead. Killed by misplaced prejudice.

12/12/2005 03:10:00 PM  
Blogger Mike H. said...

Who should we consider the enemy, the multiculti's or the muslim? The muslim is encouraged in the west by the policies of the multiculti. The war against terror is incapable of being won according to our greatest multiculti. We are the terrorist, according to another.

12/12/2005 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ash,
So could Tookie's friends wear gang colors if they went up there to lend a hand w/law enforcement?
---
Maybe they are too black to pass, or the RCMP is prejudiced against gang colors?

12/12/2005 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

'Rat,
The details just spoil all the fun.
...and ash's creativity.

12/12/2005 03:13:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

This may become a Muslim and Cowboys thing precisely because people want to keep it a general thing. If you go down to Tim Blair's site, there are reports that persons of a certain ethnic persuasion were spotted by the Sydney Morning Herald reporters milling around Lakemba mosque(an NYT wannabee) with Glocks. But guess what, the reporters didn't mention it to the cops. You can't mention the race and you can't mention the guns to the cops. See no evil. Don't fan the flames. Might stir hatred.

Now the odds are pretty good those Glocks are going to get used, if not tonight, Australian time, then sometime soon. What are the chances, Ash, that people are going to be asked to turn a blind eye to that, having turned a blind eye to the Glocks when they were just getting oiled up and ready for use? This is how things spiral upwards. It's not kindness. It's cruelty. To the Muslims, eventually, if to no one else, because there are heaps of Muslims who go through life in a normal, peaceful way. But thanks to this PC stuff, they run the risk of being swept up when things go boom.

You're inverting the argument Ash. No wants a Nazi solution, except the Left, and I am being generous when I think they will get it inadvertently, because it is doing its darndest to keep people from stopping this while it is a limited and criminal problem.

12/12/2005 03:17:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Why not outlaw any uniform that is uniform throughout any service, culture, or religion?
...just to show how far we've come.
---
(and go back to NO security badges at the Nuke labs.)
...maybe in Clinton II

12/12/2005 03:18:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wretchard,
I did read one report somewhere that mentioned "pistols" in passing.
Wouldn't want to waste ink/pixels on messy DETAILS.

12/12/2005 03:21:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/12/2005 03:50:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

From Kipling's "Norman and Saxon":

"The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so
polite.
But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and
right.
When he stands like an ox in the furrow--with his sullen set eyes
on your own,
And grumbles, 'This isn't fair dealing,' my son, leave the Saxon
alone.

"You can horsewhip your Gascony archers, or torture your
Picardy spears;
But don't try that game on the Saxon; you'll have the whole
brood round your ears.
From the richest old Thane in the county to the poorest chained
serf in the field,
They'll be at you and on you like hornets, and, if you are wise,
you will yield."


I wonder how many Australian Muslims have read that poem?

12/12/2005 03:51:00 PM  
Blogger Harkonnendog said...

Austrailia isn't Europe, and a beach, especially a surfing beach, is VALUABLE. And it isn't valuable to middle aged men or old men, or to women. It is valuable to young, physically brave, physically powerful young men. I would be SHOCKED if the Austrailian surfers were intimidated off of a surfing beach, or allowed people to intimidate their women off of a surfing beach.

If a group of Muslims, or any group, started harassing local girls or life guards on a surfing beach here in Hawaii the violence would be IMMEDIATE, instant. And if the surfers were badly outnumbered it would be same-day, probably same-hour, and the surfers would start with fists, and if that didn't work they would move to bats and knives, and if that didn't work they would move on to guns.

And I wouldn't blame them, to be honest. I mean if my daughter ever told me she was afraid to go to a beach because someone told her she'd better dress more modestly if she didn't want to be raped I'd fucking lose it. I would call by brother-in-law and tell him what happened and ask him to meet me at the beach and I would get my machete and put it in my car, drive to my parents house and get a gun just in case, (I don't have one of my own) and I'd go to that beach and find someone who looked like the person my daughter described. If there was one guy I would talk to him and if it WAS him I'd beat the living shit out of him and probably piss on his face after I choked him unconscious. And if he beat the shit out of me my brother in law (who is a lot tougher than me) would beat the shit out of him.

And there's nothing wrong with that, is there? I mean the police can't really do anything in that situation, but you can't really tolerate that kind of shit, can you?

- excerpt from my blog on this topic... I'm surprised things got to this point in the first place, really.

12/12/2005 04:03:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Nobody thought Sunday and last night would ever happen. Yet for over 15 years the tension was building up. All the while the multicultural timebomb was ticking. Tolerance ... tolerance ... tolerance ... boom. There's a boom at the end. That's the kicker. You're supposed to keep rolling with punches. Tolerate. Tolerate. But never solve. Then one day you haven't got a whole tooth left in your head and find you're plumb out of tolerance. That's the boom day.

But for people in the Olympian heights, flitting from one international meeting to the other, there's no sense that the well of tolerance may ever run dry. So they spend and spend, like moral prodigals until that capital is all used up. Then they point their fingers and say it's Bush's fault. One comment I read argues that Bush failed to "depotentialise" (British spelling) 9/11 as Clinton had done by treating the world not as it deserved to be treated but as it should be treated in its best interests (his argument) and that the failure to do that eventually led to the beach riots. Some people are just gonna outsmart themselves into the grave.

12/12/2005 04:05:00 PM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

ed, Pork, lets make it real simple for you. You appear to be saying that because some Muslims are causing a problem (suicide bombing, rioting) all Muslims should be punished. Have I got your position correct?

no let's not...

what i am saying is simple.. the arabs have driven all jews from the lands they have liberated...

in fact even israel has liberated the lands of jews to satisfy the "arabs"/"islamists" of the world...

maybe it's time for "arabs" to go home to arabia...

12/12/2005 04:08:00 PM  
Blogger Cutler said...

The scariest thing has to be watching the news reports obfuscate what is going on - no context, and when it is provided history ends and begins where convenient.

After watching this for years, I no longer believe a thing they say. Unfortunately, in spite of the blogosphere, they control the narrative, and if they have their way it won't just be that nothing happens, the exact opposite will happen. Law-breakers will be coddled, and sensitivity training substituted to get one side to quite whining about.

12/12/2005 04:29:00 PM  
Blogger fjelehjifel said...

Wretchard, can you give us a better sense of the political divide on this issue as it relates to the federal government vs. the territorial/municipal governments. Bottomline: If PM Howard were unconstrained, what would he likely do because I'm getting the impression that the lower levels of government aren't up to the challenge for the PC reasons you describe.

12/12/2005 04:33:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/12/2005 04:37:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Held ... police arrest a group of youths last night .
Would be interesting to know how many on each side of this conflict have been arrested.
Individuals in picture above are the bad guys, far as I can tell, but I've yet to see any pics of the other "good" side.

---
Cutler,
Maybe one day each week the entire right wing of the 'Sphere should focus on one important MSM item, giving it the blogstorm that they all would profit from.

12/12/2005 04:38:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

JI "could be ready to attack ."
December 13, 2005

THE latest warnings from Australia and the US against travel to Indonesia could indicate Jemaah Islamiah (JI) is ready to strike again, a US intelligence group said today.

Private sector thinktank Stratfor said the warnings had been accurate in the past, and JI had traditionally attacked about once a year. But there were indications its attack cycle was shortening, it said.

12/12/2005 04:44:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

Those rascally white people must be stopped….

“Thousands of young white men attacked people of Arabic and Mediterranean background on Cronulla Beach on Sunday.

The fighting injured more than 30 people, including police officers, and at least 16 people were arrested. “
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4521442.stm

Then on the other hand, thousands of young white men managed to injure about 30 people with 16 arrested… that is an average summer day at the beach in San Diego. No mention of the ‘whities’ bustin’ up cars though. How come the racist press keep standing up for those white vandals?

12/12/2005 04:50:00 PM  
Blogger Cosmo said...

Wretchard cites a commenter who wrote about " . . . treating the world not as it deserved to be treated but as it should be treated in its best interests . . ."

This is wrong on so many levels, but for starters I'd argue that 'treating the world in its best interests' would certainly begin with dealing with the world as it is, instead of as we wish it to be.

12/12/2005 04:59:00 PM  
Blogger Annoy Mouse said...

Some say that certain setbacks to al Qaeda and Islamic fundamentalism may have led up to the Parisian Jihad. There are only 60 vehicles burned a night now so the problem has been solved for now. But I wonder what has sparked the Australian Jihad…

“Police in Australia say the group of terror suspects arrested last week in Sydney and Melbourne is thought to have been planning a possible attack on a nuclear reactor. It has emerged that three of the eighteen arrested were detained last year near Australia's only nuclear reactor, the Lucas Heights reactor in New South Wales, which is used for research and medical purposes rather than for generating electricity.”
http://wordunheard.com/archives/
2005/11/thwarted_austra.php

or this…
“The 16 members of an alleged terror cell raided by police in two states yesterday were in "pursuit of violent jihad to kill innocent women and children", a court has been told.
But for yesterday's raids - codenamed Operation Pendeness - cell members would have carried out a series of bombings in Sydney and Melbourne, possibly killing hundreds of people, a prosecutor said in Melbourne Magistrates Court.”
http://tammybruce.com/archives/
2005/11/australian_jiha.php

Damn whities. When will they ever learn? Australia is for the dark skin races.

Hey, wait a moment there are some good whities…

“Jack Thomas was "just an average Aussie," a sometime cabdriver and chef who enjoyed watching movies and playing pool. That is, until he converted to Islam, changed his first name to Jihad, forsook Foster’s Lager, and journeyed to Pakistan — where he is now under arrest on suspicion of terrorist activities and ties to al-Qaeda. Pakistan’s Interior Minister Makhdoom Faisal Saleh Hayat asserts that "there is more than credible evidence" to establish Thomas’s terrorist activity.”
http://www.frontpagemag.com/
Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5774

Obviously it is just a matter of respect… or the devil made him do it.

12/12/2005 05:16:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

READER RESPONSE .

From: m
Comment: Hi,I am a lebanese- australian.
I have been disgusted with these recent attacks they are outrageous and no one should have to put up with this. This aint how us lebanese should behave, because it is wrong ,god doesn't accept this behaviour, where are the parents of these Australian and lebanese thugs, haven't they taught their kids what's wrong and what's right.
I'm a local who lives three suburbs away from Cronulla and am so scared to leave the house just go to the shops which are 4 minutes away, my mum also is afraid to go anywhere because she wears the scarf. hopefully these riots and bashings end.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Alessandro
Comment: Look, I'm a Swiss-Italian, with Mediterranean looks and I'm scared to death to walk in the streets of Sydney and be bashed because I'm not "white".

I came to this country as a skilled immigrant, and was proud to know that with my work, I was contributing to the local economy, to my community and to the Australian society in general. I was even considering adopting Australian citizenship...

12/12/2005 05:19:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

doug,

That Lebanese commenter you quoted has got it mostly right. That Swiss guy isn't far off the mark either. I understand the surfer crowd chased an Italian around yesterday. You can see how that could happen. And you can see it's wrong.

But letting these Lebanese Muslim gangs get away, shrouding them in the mantle of victimhood isn't going to reduce the likelihood of that poor Swiss guy getting conked on the noggin. It's likely to increase it. Mobs aren't the smartest things around and they tend to form when the cops are perceived to be ineffective. Now look at Tim Blair's latest post, Exactly Wrong. It quotes a CNN headline: "Anti-Arab rioters smash cars, windows in Sydney". That's 180 degrees wrong. Forty carloads of guys from the Lakemba area assaulted Maroubra. But if you weren't reading Belmont, and watched CNN instead, what story would you come away with? The worst lies are the ones we feed ourselves. Hang on to reality for dear life. Our hold on it is more tenous than one would think.

12/12/2005 05:53:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

ffe,

Also see this good discussion at an Australian MSM paper. What would Howard do if he were unconstrained? Probably gut Lebanese gangs by arresting the ringleaders and deporting them where they were noncitizens. Give the Captain Hook imams a one way ticket to Mecca. Simple right? Nobody's going to die. Nobody's going to wind up in a gas chamber. Everybody's going to benefit. But it's politically incorrect. So it won't get done.

12/12/2005 06:02:00 PM  
Blogger sam said...

One police source said if officers had become heavy-handed with the crowd it would have caused the mob to turn against police, making the situation even uglier.

Instead, police had focused on picking out the hardcore offenders and arresting them.

Police Source

12/12/2005 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

I read the comments at SMH. Interesting, disheartening, laughable, enraging, thoughtful, provoking, hopeful, inspiring...humanity boiled down to its essence.

Contradiction is the rule whenever humans get together. We are a species of intricate simplicity.

God, I hope we make it through this. And if we do, I hope we recognize ourselves on the other side.

12/12/2005 07:17:00 PM  
Blogger Milan Oskoryp Sr. said...

Unbelievable essay at
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/11/second-fall-of-rome
The future of Europe.I hope America will have enough strength and will to save again its "Motherland."

12/12/2005 07:28:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Milan,

Check my post at 6:31 AM ;)

12/12/2005 07:49:00 PM  
Blogger trangbang68 said...

Hey Ash,what happened?Did you throw in the towel on the Save Tookie movement and now you need a new cause?Why don't you call Quantas and see if you can book a holiday flight to Sydney,plant your white liberal tail on the beach and see if you can sing Kumbaya with the sons of Islam and save the world.Take along a John Lennon CD.Just imagine....

12/12/2005 08:35:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

...CNN headline: "Anti-Arab rioters smash cars, windows in Sydney". That's 180 degrees wrong. Forty carloads of guys from the Lakemba area assaulted Maroubra. But if you weren't reading Belmont, and watched CNN instead, what story would you come away with? The worst lies are the ones we feed ourselves. Hang on to reality for dear life. Our hold on it is more tenous than one would think. -Wretchard

Well err..., the most damaging lies are inflammatory lies by CNN and other MSM outlets. Remember the "Koran flushing" story? It got a number of people killed. And, remember the NYT's Durante [sp] and "There is no starvation in the USSR."

12/12/2005 08:43:00 PM  
Blogger PaulPsy said...

I agree with Ledger's last post. Wretchard, maybe we should just go and state plainly that we are trying very hard to avoid mass slaughter, but are increasingly pessimistic. Survival is probably the most hard-wired behavior of humans and other animals.

12/12/2005 09:12:00 PM  
Blogger ed said...

Hmmmm.

@ Ash

------------
ed, Pork, lets make it real simple for you. You appear to be saying that because some Muslims are causing a problem (suicide bombing, rioting) all Muslims should be punished. Have I got your position correct?
------------

Completely and utterly incorrect. What I was doing was showing you that the flip side of the coin shows that muslims, when in a dominant position, are highly intolerant and rather vicious to non-muslims.

Here's a clue for you. I support the liberation and democratization of Iraq because it is necessary to give muslims a different path than the one they're on now. The time to affect the future is now, even if there are huge potential negatives to Iraq. Without a substantial change the likely outcome is one of death, ruin and utter destruction. The WWII generation isn't that far removed. We are little different from those that willingly firebombed Tokyo and caused repeated conflagrations that consumed over a hundred thousand Japanese people.

The difference between then and now is the trigger, and muslims are busily working on triggering that sort of response. All we can do is try and show muslims a better way because the alternative would result in a world with 1.2 billion fewer people in it.

I don't demand genocide. I demand every alternative possible to avoid genocide because if we fail then genocide will come.

For all our complexity as a group, individual humans are rather simple creatures. If we hunger, we eat. If we're cold, we put on clothing. If we're threatened we retreat or fight. If our children or loved ones are threatened, we kill. It has been that way for many centuries, it will continue to be that way for many more. The problem however is that some people can persuade themselves that somehow this ancient rule is no longer in effect simply because some people *choose* not to kill. And that is the very real danger that the Islamic world is in right now.

My theory about modern Islam is that, in a very perverse way, muslims suffered because they weren't involved more in WWII. Had Cairo been treated as Dresden had, then there perhaps would be an implicit understanding of just what the West is capable of. That savagery lies shallowly beneath the facade, and that casting aside that facade is a dangerous game.

But as it happened most muslims had almost no contact with WWII, nor any significant war where the intent wasn't so much to win, as to rend flesh and break the civilian will. Since that time muslims have had contact with western weapons, particularly American ones. But that has given them the idea that conflagrations can be started with minimal cost. That only a few will suffer, regardless of the circumstances. Regardless of the provocations.

9/11 reinforced this skewed viewpoint.

All we can do is try our best and hope it'll work. That 1.2 billion muslims all the world over will realise that there is a line drawn in the sand past which there is only annihilation. We can try to prevent that last step by punishing infractions now rather than later. But if we wait until later then the only result will be the conflagration.

The key to understanding my viewpoint, and wretchard's too I believe, is the concept of the pain feedback loop. If you stick a knife into your arm you will feel pain. If you push the knife harder and further into your arm, the amount and intensity of pain increases. This is the pain feedback loop that tells your waking mind that what you are doing is wrong and dangerous. You are prevented from injuring yourself because of this loop.

There are many people who are born without this mechanism. For them there is no pain, no feedback. For them they must be constantly vigilant over their own flesh because otherwise they could injure themselves severely. For them there is no safety in pain.

What I advocate is that the pain feedback loop be implemented immediately and with no deference to any victimhood society. To force muslims living in the West to confront themselves and decide what future they want. And for those that make the wrong decision, to treat them as the criminals they ultimately are.

It's better than genocide after all.

12/12/2005 10:55:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

ed,

Ex Sydney cop Tim Priest wrote an article today that is remarkably free of any Muslim bashing, although he predicted these types of riots would happen when his PC superiors were pooh-poohing it. It was a more basic version of your pain feedback loop theory. He said that lax policing and cost-cutting had given the gangs the wrong idea that you could get away with anything -- because the cops let them for 15 years -- and this was the logical culmination. It's the old story of slow increases in a variable leading unnoticed to a sudden phase change, like water boiling or gasoline igniting. Priest keeps his tone level, the better to convince the reader. But clearly the PC crowd has convinced itself that you can indefinitely adapt to a monotonically increasing stress without the slightest danger. There's almost no physical system that can do that; and probably no social system which can pull it off. In the end something snaps. The wonder is why are surprised.

12/12/2005 11:30:00 PM  
Blogger Cutler said...

With the events of the past few years, it is easy to immediately zone in on the Islamic element. However, Islam is really not the primary problem, though it certainly can breed a sort of chauvinism, especially the versions coming out of Arabia.

Multiculturalism, and apologia for anti-societal behavior that frequently accompanies it, are the problems.

It is about allowing sub-populations, even encouraging them, to set themselves apart from the traditional values of the countries that welcomed them. Then convincing them that they are persecuted, when they are lucky to be given the opportunity to enjoy the greatest societies on Earth - notably, not the societies that they've come from.

Criticism and high standards breed responsibility. Instead, they are coddled and apologized for, the police operate at the threat of lawsuits and bad press. Those who don't buy this societal self-flaggelation are treated like thought criminals and intimidated into ignoring the obvious for the sake of political correctness.

Of course, on the Belmont Club, I'm speaking to the choir. Still, I think it is important not over-emphasizing the Islamic element. We're just as vulnerable to this sort of upheaval and ethnic crisis. This sort of thing can happen just as easily in southern Los Angeles or Harlem.

12/12/2005 11:35:00 PM  
Blogger Cutler said...

"With the events of the past few years, it is easy to immediately zone in on the Islamic element. However, Islam is really not the primary problem, though it certainly can breed a sort of chauvinism, especially the versions coming out of Arabia."

I should specify that I'm specifically talking about domestic disturbances such as these and Paris. The same thing could happen in any of our ghettos, absent Islam. Indeed, it has already happened with our race riots.

12/12/2005 11:40:00 PM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

W,

Just read Priest. Excellent.

What triggers the tipping point? It's not just the events in your immediate (mathematical)neighbourhood - it's when you realise that you are not alone.

I've got a saying - "if I can see, everybody sees it". It's just that you don't know that they see it until somebody else opens their mouth, or sends a text message.

The vocabulary of where we are is spreading quickly. John "In the beginning was the word" of course got this the wrong way around - "In the beginning was the concept", the word is just evidence.

The yobbos reacted the wrong way. But when you're whitey, male, the butt ass joke of the all the backward cultures of the universe, bring it all down!

Iemma(?) was on the box. Fawning ABC "interviewer" Q: "What have you done to prevent this?". A:"We've given police unprecedented powers". And that was it.

"Interviewer" never said 'But you won't let them use the powers, and even if you did, the courts would let them off'.

The courts must take some of the blame in all of this.

Those whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad.

ADE

12/13/2005 03:00:00 AM  
Blogger fjelehjifel said...

Wretchard, thanks for the latest links. The Priest article was quite revealing. I've been reading Jean-Francois Revel's Anti-Americanism (2002), an exploration into the irrational roots of this phenomenon that may shed more than a little light on Sydney's predicament.

Revel frequently uses examples from his native France, showing how anti-Americanism is often used to paralyze internal debate and problem-solving of pressing domestic problems, like the lawless "Muslim" zones inside many French cities.

Revel writes: "Among all these new communities, the Muslim one is by far the most favored by the authorities. It is indirectly subsidized, and tacitly if not officially authorized to contravene the law (in this case, for instance, of polygamy). But this official deference of the Republic to Muslim cultural and religious 'exceptionalixm' has done nothing to help integration. On the contrary, it has nourished a hatred without limits . . . (94-95)"

Revel goes on to note how the French authorities had consistently downplayed incidents of violence, until, as we now know three years after Revel's book came out, the problem finally reached its "boom day," becoming so big that no one, and certainly not event the authorities, could ignore it.

In other words, the recent Paris riots/wildings and attendant car-b-ques were not so much spontaneous events as they were an escalation of longrunning behavior that had been apparent, but ignored or explained away, for many years beforehand.

Revel plaintively asks: "The politically correct sociologists--really, conformists of the pseudo-Left--assure us that the radicals, who have transformed so many cities into "lawlwss zones," are but a samll minority. If this is the case, why haven't the forces of law and order been able to control them? How is it that, for several years in a row (in Strasbourg and Nantes, for example) rioters could trash entire neighborhoods and burn hundreds fo cars with impunity? (98)"

Mind you this was written in 2002--three years before the Paris riots. It's hard for me to say where Australian society is along this trajectory, but it's at least clear French society had plenty of warning and yet did nothing, or at least nothing to solve the problem.

The thing that's really shocking, from Revel's point of view, is that France apparently did have the ability to successfully integrate individuals of non-French heritage, from Eastern Europe and North Africa, for example, into society.

But something changed. Something stopped working. I don't know Australian society well enough to understand if a similar breakdown in the assimilation process has occurred or if we are dealing with a simple failure to enforce the law in Sydney. I suspect it's the former based on what I'm picking up from Belmont Club and others.

I would suggest to the extent that Australia's political elites are infected by the PC bug is the extent to which Australia has a big, enduring problem, like France.

One big clue is the extent to which the relevant Australian elites badmouth/scapegoat the United States to avoid dealing with the problem--a theme that Revel documents convincingly in the French context.

Thanks for your thoughtful insights as always. I'm late for work. FFE.

12/13/2005 04:24:00 AM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

FFE,

Hope you made it to work. A new thread has opened, so you may not read this.

IMHO, Australia has many themes running through it, but there is one that is predominant - its geography. Of all countries, it knows exactly where it is geopolitically. The crescent of Islam from the Phillipines to Morroco. Darkest Africa to the West. Ambivalent South Africa to the East. How else to explain the Union Jack on the Aussie flag?

Fawning Eurocentrism, free and faux 'University' education, artistic cultural dependancy, has spawned a middle layer of Chardonnay socialists. Being raised on Labour grants, their view is that all problems can be fixed by even more grants.

But there is a greater than 50% of the population which knows that grants of THEIR money will not fix problems. That's why the Liberals are in power at the Federal level, but labour is in power at the state level (but not for much longer in New South Wales).

So many themes, so little time, but there is one constant - John Howard knows how to tap into the unspoken fears of the Aussies re their geopolitics.

I hope the boys (and girls) of 'Middle Eastern Appearance' realise the deep forces they are up against.

ADE

12/13/2005 05:10:00 AM  
Blogger ed said...

Hmmm.

1. yes wretchard, exactly so.

The pain feedback loop applies to almost all aspects of normal life. A good friend of mine was great friends with a number of cops in my county here in New Jersey. He'd constantly run red lights, speed in residential zones and more but was never called to account for these relatively minor infractions because his friends would simply laugh and wink at it.

Right up until the day he ran a red light and killed a couple and their infant child.

Now had the cops ticketed him and treated him like anyone else the feedback would have either taken away his driving privledges or he would have learned that driving like that was wrong. Instead there was no feedback and ultimately three innocent people lost their lives, and one friend is rotting in jail.

2. I think the tipping point is: fear.

In most cases where there is introduced an element of fear then either there will be aggression, to remove the cause, or flight. In America's inner cities we saw the massive migration of "white flight" as affluent citizens of these inner cities fled the crime wave rather than fighting it.

In effect I think it's a macro version of the human white blood cell. Once a single cell, or group of residents, identify and trigger a response it precipitates a larger response as more cells coalesce around the intrusion.

12/13/2005 06:03:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12/13/2005 08:41:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...


Normalcy Returns

12/13/2005 08:42:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Further from-the-front comments from Wretchard would be appreciated. It's difficult to tell from Australian media reports what's really going on, since they're so heavily oil-coated.

12/13/2005 12:19:00 PM  
Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Maybe if people were free to speak their minds and voice their concerns, we'd see less vigilantism. But freedom of conscience and expression are restricted in Australia: Article

12/13/2005 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

The thought occurs that if it *was* all about "racism", wouldn't there be bashing of Aborigines going on too?

12/13/2005 02:10:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Just seeing for the first time on TV the riots on the beach in Oz. Whoa!

Of everywhere, I always felt Australia and Australians are most like US. Only more so.

Egalitarian, more equal-treating to each other than US, but just working middle-class like most of US.

Only they get to live in the most beautiful city in the world in Sydney, between Sydney Harbor and the world-famous surf beaches out by Bondi Beach. Downtown Sydney boasts bold downtown architecture like sci-fi buildings right next to the Opera House and immense Harbor Bridge from the hills of the Northern Suburbs.

These guys live in workingman's paradise, and look like they're standing up for it. They are by nature a rowdy lot, and they'd be fighting each other if they weren't fighting somebody else.

12/13/2005 04:55:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Silly question:

Sydney TV stations' web sites with video, please?

Sometimes words are not enough, when human events are over-taking the time it takes to put them into words.

TV is the eyes of the world.

(Ps. This doesn't mean that I'm agreeing with Desert Rat that pictures are worth more than words,as he argued in an earlier thread. TV is good for data capture, not necessarily sharing of Ideas.)

12/13/2005 05:43:00 PM  
Blogger Cutler said...

"Revel frequently uses examples from his native France, showing how anti-Americanism is often used to paralyze internal debate and problem-solving of pressing domestic problems, like the lawless "Muslim" zones inside many French cities."

You want another example, just take a look at Canada. The Conservatives can't do anything without the Liberals immediately comparing it to the United States in order to take advantage of Canadian prejudice.

12/14/2005 02:45:00 PM  
Blogger nonomous said...

"Split beaches into sections, say leaders"

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17583849%255E2702,00.html

12/16/2005 06:38:00 AM  
Blogger Walker said...

Just one of those simple Americans here, who has a friend who lives in the violence areas of NSW. Never even knew about the problem in Australia until she wrote today. I am not as knowledgeable as you all seem to be, but this thread raised a lot of emotion in me so I chose to post to it. Why is so much of the horrors and terrorism occuring in the world being withheld from the public? Why isn't anything being done to stop it? Why can't just the facts be reported without opinion (prejudiced or not) being injected into the reports? Why is so many incidents turning into excuses to hate Americans? Why are so many people who want the horrors to stop inactive? We all talk the talk, but who will walk the walk? Most of us women in America (and I can only speak for the ones I know and have spoken with) are pacifists. We do not want the fruit of our wombs and our love mates killed or maimed.
But if and when they are, beware, because we have an inner strength that will erase all logic and seek revenge at all costs. Politcally correct is just that, a politcal excuse for ignoring things. I have read through this whole thread, and I am amazed how there can be so many different views to the same problem. We are all lemmings running off a cliff. Until one stops and says, "Hey wait a minute, I don't want to die or cause someone else to die.", we will continue with the violence. Once respect and values are removed from the table, what other dishes are left to serve to your guests? The solution is simple in my eyes, if you don't want to serve a soup of terrorism to them, then don't serve dinner at all.
Once you open your doors to guests, you are inviting them to help themselves to anything they want. DON'T OPEN THE DOOR. and your guests need to know that once they cross the threshold, they must follow the old adage, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do.". Each country has it's own name, and when one makes a decision to move to that place, one has made a decision to become part of that culture. Religious freedom means that you may pray and worship in a manner dictated by your religion, and not that you may force others to worship and act in a way consistant with your original homeland. You don't like the way we do it, then don't do it and go back home. If I wanted to live and act like Mid Easterners I would live there. In turn I expect people who live in America to respect our ways and live like we do. Our fault lay in the removal of the melting pot, and replacing it with a salad. Nothing wrong with a salad, except for the small pieces that tend to be left behind, or fall to the floor, unconsumed. Unless taken care of and discarded properly, they tend to rot and cause an awful stink that polutes the whole dining area. The dissenters and trouble makers, are those loose pieces of salad with no place to go and no one to take care of them.
Again, you don't want the problem, then don't make the salad.
I am a Christian who is taught, turn the other cheek, offer love instead of hate, and the Kingdom of God is yours forever. But I am also a human, a woman and a believer in America. I cannot stand by and watch children and countries being used and abused by irrational behavior. The only solution to all of this is to close your doors to those who would defile your homes. All officials in free countries are elected or appointed in one way or another by it's citizens. We need to ensure our officials know our needs and desires. We have become complacent in our lives, and are content to let others make these decisions. We sit in our homes, watching the lemmings run past, knowing full well we must eventually join the stampede, and hoping that someone else will stop it all. What are we doing about it? What are we teaching our children and communicating to our officials? Blogs are great idea exchanges, but are only words on cyber paper. What have you actually done to change things? What are your immigration and visa rules? Who should be enforcing them? Do they need to be changed? Has being PC gone to far? Do we need to keep PC in check? What can you do? Let's all get REAL!!! We need to move past words and into action, before no one is left to say "Hey, wait a minute". And that includes our meda, who definitely need to report just the facts.

12/20/2005 09:56:00 AM  
Blogger JOAB said...

To "m" the lebanese who is disgusted by the gang attacks.

Your comment is welcome. Let me outline something I did myself just recently.
I'm from Melbourne, and I visited Sydney for some business. I came up ready to defend this country from any attack, which included on me personally. I went to Lakemba mosque, Telopea St Punchbowl, and walked up and down ALONE, I'm 57, but I promise you, if anyone went for me, I think I can take 3 down before myself, if not more.

I had a couple of little 'helpers' in my pockets also, not actual 'weapons', but something very easily utilized as such. If I met any Leb Muslims, who looked the part of gang members, I was prepared to ask them 'Did you go to Maroubra with that convoy' ? If the answer was yes, I was prepared to take them on right there and then.

I would not have any objection to a Leb doing the same in regard to the White anglos who attacked 'anyone' of middle east appearance on the big day at Cronulla, that way it keeps in to the perpetrators.

Next time I come to Sydney, I'll be bigger than I am now, advanced further with Krav Maga and other self defense moves, which will be the lethal kind if faced with life threatening attack. Combat boots, 'helpers' in my pockets and I'll be also training Independant combat units for both Sydney and Melbourne.

They will have real world battle hardened experience, and will NEVER target anyone because of race or religion, but they sure will target anyone who is guilty of that towards us.

The brain damaged Muslim gang members should think twice about messing with the majority. If you put all the minority/ethnics together, you will will not amount to more than 30% of Australian population.

Just for your information. During the riots, I came across people HERE in Melbourne who had experienced the arrogance of Muslims at Cronulla, claiming the rock pools for 'their' women, spitting in food of Anglos as they pass by etc.. and they wonder why it all exploded ? sheesh.

5/08/2006 02:23:00 AM  

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