Friday, November 25, 2005

Europe Again

What foreign policy will the new Chancellor of Germany pursue?

  • Dawn's Early Light thinks that Merkel is subtly distancing Germany from France and Russia.
  • Hero von Essens says
    • "Under Merkel, Germany's foreign policy focus will free itself of Schroeder's shortsighted French fixation, and she will desist from the anti-American posturing which so disfigured Schroeder and Fischer's tenure. ... But the important socialists in Merkel's government, such as the rabid anti-capitalist demagogue Müntefering, who is vice-Chancellor, will probably see to it that she can't book any notable successes on these fronts. This is a dispiriting but fair reflection of Germany's election results, which didn't give Merkel the mandate to do more."
  • Dr. Zin, who follows developments within Iran, notes that Merkel will not have a free hand. Her next foreign minister -- foisted on her by coalition partners -- is none other than one of Schroeder's old buddies.
    • The BBC has a profile on Steinmeier. "Correspondents say his role as Mr Schroeder's behind-the-scenes enforcer ... He was involved in Germany's response to the US-led "war on terror" after the 11 September 2001 attacks and in the implementation of Mr Schroeder's controversial Hartz IV welfare reforms."

Commentary

Dawn's Early Light in comparing Merkel to Bismarck made a suggestive comparison. Bismarck unified Germany: what might she do for Europe? Although the European Union draft constitution has fallen into a coma, its departure did not permanently answer the question of what Europe should be. The German Marshall Fund says that for 'European leadership' to have a meaning Europe itself has to have meaning in geopolitical terms. The French tried to create a leadership cadre centered around  France and Germany. Yet they inevitably met opposition from Britain, that other European powerhouse, and the larger second tier nations (Poland, Spain and Italy) who objected to being dealt out. The enlargement of the European Union further weakned the self-proclaimed Franco-German leadership because it increased the number who needed to be included in the decision-making process.

Henry Puschmann of the Henry Jackson Institute argues France was knocked out of the leadership equation when it rejected the EU Constitutional proposal. "With France out of the game, that leaves only Britain and Germany. Thus Anglo-German cooperation is the only way to ensure the long-term success of the European Union, something that is essential for the maintenance of stability and prosperity on the continent." And in that phrase lies one the strangest justifications for the EU at all. As Paul Berman points out in the New Republic, France has credited itself with putting an end to 150 years of war with Germany and 150 years of European war. One hagiographer of the European Union gushed:

Try to imagine what historians will write about Europe in the year 2100.

Did integration succeeed in preventing a Third World War - as was the hope of the founders of the European Union? How stable was the Union after expansion to include many former Eastern bloc nations? What was the outcome of major showdowns between The Federal States of Europe and America through 2020-2030? How did the Union cope with massive influx of foreign nationals? What happened to national parliaments, laws, markets, languages and cultures?

Now it is doubtful whether the European Union will be around in the year 2100 at all. Significantly the Germans did not share the French illusion of thinking the Second World War and the Cold War that followed was won from the Elysee Palace and Brussels. Germany knew that the fourth leading nation in Europe was located across the Atlantic. Puschmann  noted, "It may not be immediately obvious at present, but Germany does, at least potentially, share Britain’s positive outlook on the transatlantic alliance. Post-war Germany has historically been an Atlanticist nation, standing firmly by the side of the United States and the United Kingdom". If Merkel sees Europe within the wider context of the West, rather than through the fantasy prism of the Euroleft, she will at least have Bismarck's breadth of vision, though not perhaps, his opportunities.

57 Comments:

Blogger Meme chose said...

Unfortunately Europe is now little more than a talking-shop. This will most likely remain the case until Europe is given a bloody nose by some aggressor. Based on European history, there is about a 50% chance this bloody nose will turn out to be a knockout blow.

The whole 'we buried conflict in Europe' narrative expresses the fact that Europeans are more afraid of each other than they are of outside threats (their deepest fear is of what might happen if Germany gets seriously involved in defending them, or even defending itself... this is why all war which might involve Europe must be 'abolished').

Europeans' disdain for threats from non-EU, non-US directions is the newest instance of the utter inward-looking folly which litters their long disaster-ridden history.

11/25/2005 06:37:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Under Merkel, Germany's foreign policy focus will free itself of Schroeder's shortsighted French fixation, and she will desist from the anti-American posturing which so disfigured Schroeder and Fischer's tenure.

Am I wrong in thinking that a majority of Germans are anti-American and that's why Schroeder kept getting re-elected?

In dollars and cents terms, can someone explain to me how Schroeder and Germany suffered from their "anti-American posturing"? I know there has been a more or less successful boycott of France and the French market-place for the past 3 or 4 years; however, I'm not aware that Americans have quit eating wienerschnitzel and quit drinking German beer in protest.

So taken with Condi's famous comment about "Forgive Russia, ignore Germany, punish France", is Germany's current torment all self-inflicted or not?

(If we can hurt a major country without even trying or noticing, we truly have entered Gulliver territory.)

11/25/2005 06:57:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Germany is NOT that pro-American with respect to backing American interventions abroad. From the earliest age, Germans are taught war is horrible and must be avoided and luckily the world has the UN and International Law to make pacifism a realistic course.

Unfortunately, the German vision contrasts with reality. Which is slowly dawning on them. Iran WON'T give up it's nukes even if the UN deplores it and the mighty EU roundly condemns it and this is accompanied with extra-vigorous hand-wringing.

But Bush has shown himself to be an arrogant, inept politician on the level of a Shroeder even, so real warming of relations will wait until Continental Europe is attacked by Islamoids OR a better President is elected.

In the meantime, Merkel has plenty of work domestically in tending to Germany's economy, high joblessness, social welfare system, and globalization.

If I were her, I'd keep foreign policy mainly status quo, align with the UK, East Europe, Russia more less with France & it's chocolate poodle.......and impliment the economic reforms that have worked well in Ireland, the UK, the Netherlands. If she turns Germany around domestically, she can begin working with the US closer in a couple of years as Bush goes into deep lame duck-hood and a picture emerges of who will be likely running America in 2009.

In the meantime, don't look for the Wehrmacht in Iraq, Syria, or Iran..

11/25/2005 07:55:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

"What foreign policy will the new Chancellor of Germany pursue?...Anglo-German cooperation is the only way to ensure the long-term success of the European Union..." --Wretchard

One would guess mild.

But, the greater question:

Who should the US look for leadership in a global military/economy? Are we maxed out in the military reach in Europe? Where should we look in Europe, if at all?

Now, I agree with Wretchard's premise that Merkel (Germany) hold the greatest prospects for the EU as an entity. The French have shown no strength and even worse leadership.

Sadly, the EU holds few economic/military prospects and maybe regarded as a declining entity of world leadership. The world leadership just might be in China and India (China being the most vibrant).


From an economic/military standpoint the EU, has whole, is declining in economic/military power. We are using fewer bases in the EU block and more basis in the Asia block (Geopolitical economics).

I would look to emerging countries of the ex-USSR and of countries in the China region (that includes the Philippines).

This is not to say the former Soviet States will not grow and eventually pull the entire EU mass from the swamp. There are some of ex-USSR countries chomping at the economic bit.

As I listen to major corporate conference calls, both France and Germany are weak. Yet, small ex-soviet states remain strong (this obscures the overall picture).

For example, telecommunications and computer sales are very strong in the ex-Soviet arena. The opposite is true for France and Germany. So spy on the up and commers.

Now worldwide, the majority of Computer Processors Units (CPU) due to be delivered will be to delivered to China (PRC) and the surrounding countries. In fact, some say that China is now the number two consumer of computer processors units in the world behind the USA. And, it's estimated that China will become the number one consumer of computer processors in the next few years.

One could ask why should the number of computer processors units sold be a factor in economic dominance? The answer is simple.

It takes computer processors to run a motherboard and the motherboard runs the entire computer. Computers run a majority of companies and governmental functions. Computers run communications complexes, engineering and retail companies, and of course governments. So, the number of CPU's is an indicator of future growth.

China is quickly growing and the two EU countries are shrinking (Germany and France).

This is some what like the old Dow Jones theory where if the transportation industry was increasing the overall economy would increase (and the opposite). Now, metrics are the CPU growth instead of the rail roads.

Given the huge population of China (1.1 billion people) and their appetite for computer processors one can only guess they will be a major power to be reckoned with.

One can ask, India and the surrounding countries, have a approximately equal populations, yet pose no threat compared to China - Why?

The reason is culture. India and its surrounding countries have strict ingrained laws which pose a significant barriers to information and commerce. These customs involve the lending of money for no interest and other customs (interest is forbidden in many of said countries - but "fees" are not). The banking activity in said countries is poor and below the western style of banking activity in China.

China has a semi-command economy. This gives it considerable clout in the world market. China has long ago embraced commerce as a weapon (they can see how Japan, South Korea, and Hong Kong have benefited). They realize the necessity for commerce. And, they use that clout.

They have adopted the old golden rule: "Those who holds the gold - rules." In some areas of China capitalism is more prevalent that in the USA (sure it is hard to believe but true - take a look at Shanghai at night or other cities and you will unrestrained capitalism).

Further, China has strict criminal laws which it enforces.

As an aside, I talked to a Chinese student who attended college in the UK. This student said that because of the lax laws in the UK that it was better to move back to China. Apparently, said student at witnessed a "football" match brawl between fans and felt unsafe in the stadium (in China police would have rushed in and quickly remove the belligerent people and most likely severely punished them in prison).

It's entirely possible that the China block of countries will surpass the EU block.

The EU principals: France and Germany, appear to be driving the entire "EU" block to a the ground.

They have layer upon layer of bureaucracy and taxation. They have huge social programs which will spiral out of control due to demographics. And, they have not gotten there "Constitution" together.

If one wants to focus on the economic block - one should focus on China. If one wants to counter China were should the bases be located? Determin that and take action.

As for the EU, I doubt if rearranging the deck chairs of the Titanic will help.

One should focus its military and economic power on the immediate threats on the block. Those are certainly, Iraq, Iran, Syria, and other states in that area.

11/26/2005 05:24:00 AM  
Blogger Kevin said...

chocolate poodle!!!!

C4, if that refers to the country that I think it does (Belgium) then it's an instant classic.

Caniche au chocolat, it sounds even better in French.

11/26/2005 05:35:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Ms Merkel leads a fractured country and she is not the glue that will hold it together. In that the analogy to Bismark is off the mark, I think;
Whether or not power in Germany can be consolidated and how Germany reacts when it is, again open to debate.

In '78 old Germans thought US troops were good to have around, that was then, though, don't know about now. Those Germans are most likely dead, age being what it is.

11/26/2005 06:10:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

Curious, isn’t it? Success in the war against Islamofacism has led to nearly opposite reactions on opposite sides of the Atlantic. In the U.S., as more success comes every day, the reaction has been ever more virulent attacks by the Left.
In Europe, the U.S. success has bred more agreement with American viewpoints.
Perhaps this reflects the greater penetration of Europe by Leftist viewpoints.
In the U.S. the Left can sputter, whine, moan, accuse, curse, hold candlelight vigils for convicted killers, and fret endlessly about the comfort of terrorists. And all the while be assured that when the time comes, the adults will step in and a big strapping guy in a uniform – lacking only a big “S” and a cape – will save the day- again and again – even if he is cursed and sued afterwards.
In Europe there are far fewer adults. Perhaps this has bred a better grade of leftist.
Or maybe some of them just realize that the guy with the big “S” does not live in their neighborhood. A 911 call to him will get routed through endless E.U. bureaucrats and thus will never make it. He’ll have to read about it in a newspaper – which have become rather unreliable of late.
Maybe the new Chancellor of Germany should not be compared to Bismarck.
Maybe she is closer to Lois Lane.

11/26/2005 07:22:00 AM  
Blogger Boghie said...

I am not in the German public and government decision loop, but:

The fact is Germany must be looking for the strong horse. Is it France and appeasement? Is it France and socialism? Is it France and the Sixth Republic or whatever they call it when the Fifth whatever crashes and burns? Is it France and its magnificent history of failure? Is it France and Germany and nothing else – a true Axis of Weasels, a concept of power demonstrated to be a weak horse? Or is it the possibility of integrating into the Anglo-Sphere. They were part of it once, eh…

I will venture a guess… The month of fun and excitement in France, the repeated ‘challenges’ to Germany by militant Islam, and the possibility that Iran will soon be blockaded (and their oil exports assumed by Iraq) will have a strong pull on the current Bismarck – eh…

Now let’s look economically… Who has more potential upside as a trade partner, the socialist and increasingly protectionist France, or the capitalist and increasingly open United States, Brittan, and Australia…

I think the only hold France can make is power generation. I think Germany is dependent on French nuclear power plants... Could be wrong...

I do not hear of a two state solution in Germany. I have heard quips about another multi-cultural entity recently. Germany will come around.

11/26/2005 08:27:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Ledger, in your comments re: the EU, are you including England?

11/26/2005 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Europe Upset Over CIA Operations .
Several countries are investigating alleged counter-terrorism missions on their turf.
---
Officially, Europe, with its long history of respect for civil rights, has been lukewarm to U.S. counter-terrorism measures. To find itself the territory on which some of Washington's most controversial tactics are being played out has become a matter of much debate and soul-searching.
---
But the political situation is delicate in Germany at the moment also. The new chancellor, Angela Merkel, is keen to improve ties with Washington that were strained under her predecessor, Gerhard Schroeder. So although German politicians are demanding answers about CIA activities, Merkel may be reluctant to pursue them.
---
I guess you might say their "long" "history of respect for civil rights" has had more than a few interruptions and bumps along the way.

11/26/2005 09:45:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Al-Jazeera is "demanding" answers to the question of whether Blair/Bush wanted to bomb them, too. Doesn't anyone ever say "pretty please" any more?

11/26/2005 09:47:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11/26/2005 09:54:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

rwe refers to the part played by leftists in the WOT on the Homefront.

The article I posted refers to the part played by leftists in the WOT on the Homefront.

Seems like they, along with the Saudis, do far more to enable and embolden terrorists than all other elements combined.

Maybe when the WOT gets serious, we'll have to include govts like Spain's as being subject to pre-emptive actions ;-)
(wishful thinking emoticon)

11/26/2005 09:56:00 AM  
Blogger Westhawk said...

Our view is that Europe, from the point of view of U.S. policy makers, is now a backwater. U.S. attention is now properly focused elsewhere in the world.

The U.S. will soon reduce its ground force presence in Germany from a Cold War high of 15 brigades to one brigade (with another in Italy). With respect to logistics arrangements, the U.S. is opening up a new archipelago of small bases in Bulgaria, Romania, the Horn of Africa, central Asia, and elsewhere. The U.S. military will be able to avoid Western Europe if necessary.

Ms. Merkel will certainly not be a Bismark, a Thatcher, or any similar such icon. She will barely have enough power to run her personal staff, let alone the ministries, the government, or the country. Her fractious government probably won't survive until 2007.

Europe will not be able to make a meaningful contribution to geo-political affairs. It will be focused on internal security for as far as the eye can see.

U.S. policy has adjusted to these realities.

Westhawk

11/26/2005 10:00:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

c4 says,
" From the earliest age, Germans are taught war is horrible and must be avoided and luckily the world has the UN and International Law to make pacifism a realistic course."
---
In many USA Government/Education Monopoly schools, TEACHERS are taught from their earliest days in College that LEARNING is horrible and must be avoided.
Luckily the teachers are backed in this quest for ignorance by the "education" (Teacher's) unions.
---
"In college, she learned that teaching children earlier than the first grade will stunt them and even cause them to have strong antisocial behaviors later. Of course, this is not true, but she, and thousands of other early childhood advocates, believe it is.

I once evaluated a program in New Jersey like the one Alan went through in first grade. After the teacher read a story that told about children finding a treasure at the top of a hill, I tested the children on some of the phrases that were in the story. One phrase was that the children, "were panting after their long climb." I asked the class, "What is panting? Who can show me what you do when your are panting?" One kid raised his hand. I had him stand up and show me what panting was. He posed something like a model on a runway and ran one hand up and down his hip. I asked the group,
"What is that?"
A few said panting.
I asked one of them,
"Is that panting?" He said,
"Yes, panting hose."
"

. Reading First = Kids First
.
. Hat Tip - Morgan

11/26/2005 10:15:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

We discuss Germany, and even the entire EU as a whole, as if they are accomplishing something in the world outside their own borders, as if they do something to dramatically make the world a better place for all humanity.

Can we point to one accomplishment comparable to any of those listed below? To improve their chances to compare to the past 5 years of America under Bush, can you think of a single accomplishment by Germany or France in the past five decades that compares to any of the below?

1. Deposed the Taliban
2. Deposed Saddam
3. Got Libya to give up wmd programs
4. Exposed AQ Khan network
5. Got Syria out of 25 year occupation of Lebanon
6. Got the world talking about the mad mullah’s of Iran and their nuke programs
7. Got NoKor on the hot seat
8. Tenet says we are fighting the Islamofascists in 80 countries
9. Successful elections in Iraq
10. Insurgents asking for peace talks in Iraq

Even if we move this discussion into the purely economic sphere, we will see that Europe is fading fast. Why is that? What great advantage does America have that Greater Europe lacks?

11/26/2005 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Tony -

To improve their chances to compare to the past 5 years of America under Bush, can you think of a single accomplishment by Germany or France in the past five decades that compares to any of the below?

1. Deposed the Taliban
2. Deposed Saddam
3. Got Libya to give up wmd programs
4. Exposed AQ Khan network
5. Got Syria out of 25 year occupation of Lebanon
6. Got the world talking about the mad mullah’s of Iran and their nuke programs
7. Got NoKor on the hot seat
8. Tenet says we are fighting the Islamofascists in 80 countries
9. Successful elections in Iraq
10. Insurgents asking for peace talks in Iraq


Accomplishments of Germany & France:

1. Did not go another 1 trillion in debt to China, Saudi Arabia, France and Japan to pay for the military triumphs that you list.

2. France and Germany actually have highly effective internal and external intelligence services who appear not to be as badly affected as the unprofessional boobery displayed by the FBI and CIA.

3. Both countries educate their children at far higher levels of educational attainment than America manages, at less cost. A full year and a half more math and scence, on average. Not quite Asian level - but far better than America.

4. Both countries ensure that all working citizens and short-term unemployed have access to health and dental care. Life expectancy is higher than in America. All for less per capita.

5. As wealth further concentrates in America, thanks to government tax cuts and pork projects that mainly reward the richest Americans, ecxonomists have found that Europe has now surpassed America in prospects for upwards economic and social mobility.

6. France and Germany (along with the UK) are leading the confrontation with Iran. Not us. We are following the Cuban model of decades of refusing to talk of work with them, a practice that has worked wonders with Cuba.

7. France and Germany are contributing in Afghanistan. German doctors, technicians, and nurses are helping our wounded and dying soldiers coming into Germany from Iraq.

8. While we are focused on spending and taking casualties for the "noble freedom-loving" Iraqis, Germany is quietly helping intergrate E European economies with the rest of Europe and attempting to deter Russia's backslide from democracy - an issue the Bushies, obsessed with Iraq, are ignoring.

9. Libya was actually a major coup of the Brits, who stayed there and worked with the Libyans vs. America's trying their Cuban model yet again - and got the diplomatic victory that led to the uncovering of the AQ Khan "smoking gun" the US had been seeking for years.

10. France led the effort to get Syrians out of Lebanon. It was the French who got the European, African, and Arab nations gang up on Syria to tell Syria "enough". The US military helped - as Syria recognized that America would not be tied up in Iraq forever - but it was a French show we joined up to...

And that is all stuff from the last decade...If you wish to go back further, the Continental Europeans were hardly pikers when it came to doing some pretty amazing stuff. Moscow, Warsaw, Caen, Rotterdam, Hamburg were all rebuilt faster than the Americans could ever dream of doing with the WTC complex or New Orleans....Empires were peacefully disassembled...Germany economically unified in a way we struggle to do with the far less ambitious NAFTA. Income levels for all groups, not just the folks at the top as in America under Bush -were beneficiaries of Europes post-WWII rebirth..

American jingoism is fine and dandy, Tony, but there is more to making a powerful civilization than the military side of things.

11/26/2005 11:58:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Cedar,

At least starting with your Point 7, you begin mentioning things outside their borders. However, Bush recently met with Putin to discuss control and anti-proliferation of nukes, not the Europeans. The idea of France and Germany actually influencing Iran without US in the background is specious. I suppose it was just coincidental that France was able to "lead the way" to getting Syria out of Lebanon immediately after we overthrew Saddam. The accomplishments of the Brits, I'll give you - they're on our side.

Here's what Libya actually declared in surrendering its wmd's: According to the talks held between the GSPLAJ, the USA and the UK, which are two permanent members of the (UN) Security Council that is responsible for the preservation of international peace and security, Libya has decided, with its own free will, to get rid of these substances, equipment and programs and to be free from all internationally banned weapons.
http://www.nti.org/e_research/e3_56a.html

You forgot to mention some of the more consequential accomplishments of the French and Russians, like wasting a year in pointless U.N. debates, allowing Iraq to secret their wmd's out of the country. And their tremendous war profiteering on the Oil For Food program.

As for the rebuilding after WWII, I believe we might have helped a bit with that, via the Marshall Plan.

Btw, that comment on how empires were "peacefully disassembled" is truly rich. World Wars I and II were not exactly peaceful, and that's where the disassembling occurred.

But this one is the best of all: "Europe has now surpassed America in prospects for upwards economic and social mobility."

We just read over the past month the tremendous stagnation in France led to weeks of rioting and destruction. Maybe you were referring to Eastern Europe? That's where the French and the Germans freed the oppressed countries from the tyrany of Communism. O wait, another country accomplished that particular feat. Unless one wants to argue that the USSR fell apart all by itself....

Reality may sound like jingoism to some because the facts are so lop-sided.

11/26/2005 12:21:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony,
Whatever.
I'm convinced.
Movin to France.
(Makes one wonder why all the smart dollars around the world are movin to the USA, but what do they know?)

11/26/2005 01:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Reality may sound like jingoism to some because the facts are so lop-sided."
---
There's also the problem for lefties that the facts have the wrong side winning.

11/26/2005 01:22:00 PM  
Blogger Papa Ray said...

Germany was a good place for a vacation.

Not even that anymore.

Papa Ray

11/26/2005 01:23:00 PM  
Blogger exhelodrvr said...

Empires peacefully disassembled? SOuth Africa went really well. And Algeria. And Jordan was very peaceful with Israel in 1948! Vietnam/Dien Bien Phu ring a bell? And the "peacefully disassembled" empires have done really well, haven't they!!

11/26/2005 01:35:00 PM  
Blogger exhelodrvr said...

DOn't forget Ukraine. Not just a coincidence that that happened when it did.

11/26/2005 01:37:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Doug - Makes one wonder why all the smart dollars around the world are movin to the USA, but what do they know?

Well, they know that it took 200+ years for America to build up it's wealth, so it will be hard work to buy a good portion of it up.

Through America's massive trade and government spending deficits.

The Saudis prefer positive cash flow real estate, the French, industries unlikely to be destroyed by free trade and China - like agribiz, Chinese middleman distribution channels, supermarket chains. The Japs like real estate, but mostly stick to US government IOUS to support the Bush spending spree and tax cuts for wealthy Americans. The Chinese want to use their WalMart dollars for advanced Soviet weaponry, natural resource companies, and infrastructure 1st. But even after buying all the weapons they can assimilate into their modernizing, lethal military, purchasing half the world's steel and cement output, and getting most of the new sales in oil and natural gas happening in Canada, Latin America, Asia, and Iran....they still wads of American trade dollars left and have put enough into making up for Bush's spending and tax cuts in the last 5 years that they have a 1,100 per American IOU going to China and a big say over the dollar as the reserve currency and the dollars value.

Tony: As for the rebuilding after WWII, I believe we might have helped a bit with that, via the Marshall Plan.

That was back when America was an economically dominant creditor nation with the best educated students in the world outside Germany and the Scandanavian countries. Net present value of the Marshall Plan is 90 billion. Less than what we have seen our bribed politicians give Israel over 30 years (140 bilion) the cojoined 60 billion to Egypt.....or the 240 billion for the sadly misnamed GWOT.

We kicked the Taliban's ass!!!!
We have the JDAM!!

BFD.

China hasn't put a cent into or lost a single soldier in the "Fight Against the Evildoing Kind of Guys" as Bush puts it....

While Bush is engaged with two 3rd world nations, China has:

1. Replaced the US as Korea's, the Philippines, Australia and Thailand's most important trading partner.
2. It has destroyed American prosperity in industry after industry. Small manufacturing, photographic equipment, textiles, furniture making, new high tech like plasma screens, computer hardware, toys, new electronic consumer products, plumbing equipment, after market aviation components. It is setting up to wipe out the US automotive and household products industries, and working with VCs to ensure Silicon Valley never rises again - that China is the nation that will make whatever comes from new innovation. With it's money, China is also becoming interested in dominating insurance underwiting.

PS - Your mighty JDAM is dependent on Japanese and Swiss technology. Before Iraq, we had to pay high level trips to Japan and the Swiss Gov't to cajole them into building more chips. The Japanese were great, but the Swiss were supposedly quite difficult and demanded and got a special premium.

But, but...Insurgents asking for peace talks in Iraq!!!

BFD.

China, France, and Russia will just sit back and ensure they get the future oil contracts of the Islamist Iraqi state that emerges, since the Iraqis will not wish to look like Quislings giving such contracts to the occupying Americans that only serve Israel, anyways...America might get some Kurdish black gold for our troubles, but China's, France's, and Russia's friends in Iran are already working on setting up the southern fields to go to Anybody but America to benefit from taking the production from. The non-aggression, non-invasion pact the Shia of Iraq signed last spring with Iran was a relief for any Iranians worried that the US could be allowed to use Iraqi bases to hit Iran..

Though it is sorta nice that Sunni insurgents are talking with us, even if not committing to anything..The insurgents (some scattered groups) are talking with us!! Well, poor Bush needs even that little crumb of good news these days..

9/11 was a fucking godsend for the Chinese.

11/26/2005 03:16:00 PM  
Blogger David Davenport said...

Nobody's brought up the really interesting question about the EU yet. This question is, can the Yurpeeons sustain their welfare state social model, or is the EU about to go the way of General Motors -- unable to compete economically and industrially.

I predict that the EU will put up high trade barriers and try to keep out imports from lower wage countries such as China, South Korea, and the USA.

I do not know if the EU's experiment in protectionism will be successful. Stick around for a couple more decades and we'll find out.

The US economy is absolutely Jim Dandy? Tell that to Delphi, GM, Ford, and to the American real estate and construction sector after the next real estate slump gets going.

Overseas military expeditions? Iran, Taiwan, whatever? Let the American suckers handle all of that. Not a problem for the EU.

What to do about Muslims residing in the EU? The Muslim problem can be solved. No more Muslims in Europe, no more European Muslim problems ... especially since the EU countries no longer need so many cheap, low-skilled workers. Ship 'em back to their ancestral homelands.

//////////////////


PS - Your mighty JDAM is dependent on Japanese and Swiss technology. Before Iraq, we had to pay high level trips to Japan and the Swiss Gov't to cajole them into building more chips

Can you cite any evidence for that? I think not.

-- david.davenport.1@netzero.com

11/26/2005 03:33:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

My dear Cedarford,

JDAM? Did I mention JDAM? To tell you the truth, as a multi-decade subscriber to AWST, I'd love to talk about JDAM, but it's even more off-topic than we already are.

So, you are saying the Chinese economy, whose greatest strength is $2/day labor and NO INNNOVATION is a huge threat to the US. Heh. Give me a tingle when people are climbing over the border fences to get into Communist China to improve their lot in life.

Were you around in the 80's when we were all reading the "Book of Five Rings" and genuflecting to the Japanese economic model? If China did not have an international criminal model in stealing Intellectual Property and communist model in economic slavery, and an international monetary policy comparable to the Nazis (my money is worth what I say it is!), they would remain an intellectual backwater.

Give me a call when we are buying Chinese cars and airplanes and computers and televisions.

Hey, did you hear, that dumb hitlermonkey Bush just sold the Chinese a bunch of Boeing 737's?

Why do you think that happened? Do you think that's the last time in history that American technology will every dominate the international market?

Heh. If anything you say comes true over the next year or two, or next decade or two, I'll send you $5 via PayPal.

11/26/2005 04:10:00 PM  
Blogger Boghie said...

Cedarford,

I concur with the statement about the European police forces. They have much more power than their American counterparts – and lucky for them that they do since they have no real ability to project force. Such things as the Patriot Act which give the ACLU Left and Right Wing Libertarians all sorts of constipation are already in place in these bastions of freedom.

However, France and Germany can’t get out of their own way economically. As a ratio of GDP to debt both are in much more trouble than the United States - and that includes total debt as well as the annual deficit. And the United States is growing itself out of debt – see FY2005 forecasts vs.’ actual FY2005 numbers. On the other hand, France and Germany have again waivered themselves out of the Euro GDP to debt ratio requirement. Seems like an annual affair. America would not have had to beg a waiver this year.

Also, President Bush is playing you like a violin… He made a promise that he ‘would cut the deficit in half in five years’. He will accomplish that in two years (FY2006) and be near or at surplus by the end of his presidency. Economically, the American tax base had to get through the Dot Com bust, 9/11, Enron, a global war, and all the bubbas that lost money in the stock market in March 2001. Those bubba (rich and middle class) have spent three years writing off gains with the losses from 2001. Based on the dramatic growth of capital gains tax revenue we are at an end of that hiccup. Simply put, we are at the beginning of a real big tax revenue boom.

As a result, America is the place to be if you want to invest money safely. That is why foreign entities are investing here. Good, bad, indifferent… Also, can’t be helped. I don’t have anyone checking my papers when I buy a stock or treasury bond.

You state that France and Germany and Brittan leading in the confrontation with Iran. If Iran says ‘so what’ to them what happens… The only option short of war or air strikes would be the deployment of a blockade. For that to occur, you would have to seal Iran’s borders. There would have to be alternative sources of oil for your green Europeans and their big fast cars and factories. Otherwise the blathering by the Eurotrash Three will get windmills moving, but nothing else. Who can effectively blockade Iran and guarantee Europe and Asia their ghastly oil imports? Hhhhhmmmmmmm… Let me look at that map again.

I am done bashing Europe and especially Brittan and Germany. They are, or will soon, step up to the plate. They just got to get through their Carteresque malaise!!!

11/26/2005 04:14:00 PM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

c4 pontificates: Accomplishments of Germany & France:

c4: 1. Did not go another 1 trillion in debt to China, Saudi Arabia, France and Japan to pay for the military triumphs that you list.

true, last time I checked america was still on the hook for 100 BILLION a year for nato.. Not to mention how much bases in Japan has cost us, nor how much we have spent protecting Saudia Arabia over the last 50 yrs..

c4; 2. France and Germany actually have highly effective internal and external intelligence services who appear not to be as badly affected as the unprofessional boobery displayed by the FBI and CIA.

yes the effective germans... can we say..... Munich? or how about those wonderful fun guys called the Baader-Meinhof, or remember that fun disco loving guy and his friends Mohammed Atta.. now to france, can anyone remember the riots in paris of years agao and today? the metro bombings, the greenpeace BOMBING? yep mightly fine ID groups...

c4: 3. Both countries educate their children at far higher levels of educational attainment than America manages, at less cost. A full year and a half more math and scence, on average. Not quite Asian level - but far better than America.


Yes you have a point, all those turkish kids (in germany) and those arab/africans (in france) are quite well educated...... but your statement really says nothing... french and german kids ATTEND school longer? please provide any data on any thing, please... please provide that this translates into superior creative, productive citizens. As for costs? Please again, provide data, since defining costs is important, after all in america food is cheap, in france and germany is it quite expensive, as is there gas cost, do the governments provide free food and gas? After all with all those great educated frenchies, they still killed off 5000 old people due to no airconditioning and excessive vacations

c4 4. Both countries ensure that all working citizens and short-term unemployed have access to health and dental care. Life expectancy is higher than in America. All for less per capita.

again, please provide some data.. does this include immigrants  ? Does this include french colonies it has around the world? does this include airconditioning?



c4: 5. As wealth further concentrates in America, thanks to government tax cuts and pork projects that mainly reward the richest Americans, ecxonomists have found that Europe has now surpassed America in prospects for upwards economic and social mobility.

“europe” has 450 million people, america has 300 million, unless the people of europe were morons they should outproduce us... so what is your point?

c4: 6. France and Germany (along with the UK) are leading the confrontation with Iran. Not us. We are following the Cuban model of decades of refusing to talk of work with them, a practice that has worked wonders with Cuba.

Actually the US is not being unilateral...... and you have problems with that? thought you said that the jews/neocons/zionists controlled the usa, if they did we would have bombed iran YEARS ago

c4: 7. France and Germany are contributing in Afghanistan. German doctors, technicians, and nurses are helping our wounded and dying soldiers coming into Germany from Iraq.

cool, where are the germans or french when it comes to darfur? Yes the french have been active in the ivory coast, machine gunning down peaceful civilian protestors but france and germany suck off the stability TIT OF THE USA, otherwise they'd have to defend themselves, which they dont do.

c4: 8. While we are focused on spending and taking casualties for the "noble freedom-loving" Iraqis, Germany is quietly helping intergrate E European economies with the rest of Europe and attempting to deter Russia's backslide from democracy - an issue the Bushies, obsessed with Iraq, are ignoring.

Can we say BOSNIA? france and germany have given how much for the ex-ussr nukes?

c4: 9. Libya was actually a major coup of the Brits, who stayed there and worked with the Libyans vs. America's trying their Cuban model yet again - and got the diplomatic victory that led to the uncovering of the AQ Khan "smoking gun" the US had been seeking for years.

Yep the cowboy action like IRAQ did not send a message to Libya, ops another FRENCH ex-colony turns pro-western

c4: . France led the effort to get Syrians out of Lebanon. It was the French who got the European, African, and Arab nations gang up on Syria to tell Syria "enough". The US military helped - as Syria recognized that America would not be tied up in Iraq forever - but it was a French show we joined up to...


yes a french show, as is lebanon, the ivory coast, algeria, congo, chad, indonesia, vietman and many more... It’s a wonder that america ever survived with all this french leadership.

as usual c4 is full of himself or used pork, either way, he’s just bloated.

11/26/2005 04:17:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Ben Bernanke is unworried about the American trade deficit. The core cause of such lop-sidedness is the sophisticated, post-industrial, and healthy consumerism of the US in contradistinction to the neo-industrial, wage-controlled "workers-hell" in China. We have a copious amount of discretionary income. They don't. We bought into the information economy. They haven't.

China and the Middle East are in the same dilemma. Their survival and relevance are dependent on the attentions of the United States and the particular type of market we help support. Our dependency on them is inextricably linked with the aged and dying paradigm of Industry. As the latter goes the way of the dinosaur, and as the United States gets richer, a single imperative will ring true with the Industrial nations of the world: evolve, or die.

They are in a precarious position, these niche players. The top of the food chain is moving skyward, as the ground falls away beneath their feet. As citizens around the world become more sophisticated due to cultural cross-pollination (internet, media), the universal question asked of government will soon become, "Where's the beef?" Without a compelling answer, national brain-drain to the US will proceed apace (see latest Economist).

Information is the new oil. And we (post-industrial nations) own all the refinaries.

On a side note, our national defense posture has shifted from retaliatory (pre-911), to preemptive (post-911), to preventative (post-OIF) in the space of five years. This means that any prospective enemy of the US will have to draw its followers and know-how from an ether filled with sentinels and guard dogs. Worse for them, once they find what they need, assembly--and speed--will be required.

A decentralized entry-barrier for our times. As we get richer and more powerful, outside threats diminish. Inside threats, however...

The Constitution is the Aegis that shields us from ourselves. On this Thanksgiving, it is something to be truly thankful for.

11/26/2005 04:26:00 PM  
Blogger gmat said...

Aristedes: What you said about old manufacturing paradigms made me think of an old interview with Peter Drucker that I read earlier today.

"Fortune: But isn't it true that labor costs are much higher in the U.S., and that moving more manufacturing abroad harms our balance of trade?

Drucker: Wage cost is of primary importance today for very few industries, namely ones where labor costs account for more than 20% of the total cost of the product—like textiles. I don't know what proportion of the cost of a typical American product is attributable to labor, but it's a small and shrinking one. Take automobile parts. Because of my consulting, I happen to know the internal cost structure for one of the world's biggest auto parts makers. They tell me that it is still very much cheaper to produce in this country—or maybe in conjunction with a maquilladora plant along the Texas-Mexico border—than to import, because the parts, while labor-intensive, are also very skill-intensive to design and make. When that's the case, you're still better off producing in this country. So the belief that labor costs are a main reason for producing outside the U.S. is justified for only a very small segment of industry.

Consequently, the industries that are moving jobs out of the U.S. are the more backward industries. The U.S. remains the cheapest place in the world to produce for many of the more advanced industries. I say that not because our wages and salaries are so low. They aren't. But employee benefits are much cheaper than in Europe, and American workers are more flexible. I don't just mean you can move people out of accounting and into engineering here; I mean physically moving people from Chicago to Los Angeles. Don't you dare try that in Germany. They won't go. That's one of the absurd byproducts of their huge and restrictive employee benefits: It's cheaper to allow someone to remain unemployed in the Ruhr than to move him to Stuttgart for a real job. The same thing is true in Japan.

So what I call "invisible" costs are quickly beginning to be more significant than direct labor costs. These are pension costs, benefits and health-care costs, and especially something nobody has yet assessed, which I call "reporting" costs, which are basically associated with complying with regulations, taxation, labor relations requirements, and the like."

11/26/2005 05:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"These are pension costs, benefits and health-care costs,"
---
One of many advantages Toyota has v the domestics, even when manufacturing cars in the USA.

11/26/2005 06:17:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11/26/2005 06:23:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"especially something nobody has yet assessed, which I call "reporting" costs, which are basically associated with complying with regulations, taxation, labor relations requirements, and the like."
---
Funny that the great minds in Economics have yet to address this, yet my parents, who owned a small business in a Very Small Town, addressed it almost daily 40 years ago!
---
Hillarycare would have driven them up a tree!

11/26/2005 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Aristedes said,
"Information is the new oil. And we (post-industrial nations) own all the refinaries."
---
In the short and medium term, however, the old oil remains a vital necessity.
Our security would benefit greatly by having our Offshore, Ak, and etc reserves in reserve, and ready to produce.
...once again the lefties are the wrench in the works, even as they (as well as most of the rest of us) continue to burn oil like there is no tommorrow, which there may not be,
...even for our kids.

11/26/2005 06:34:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Pork rinds for Yahweh - I'm not your research assistant providing you citations and footnotes for every fact or assertion stated. And requesting them is a stupid Jewish debating tactic intending to distract, seen elsewhere. This is a blog, not a publishable paper being academically peer reviewed - and you sure aren't a boss or even a professor in any position to demand them. If you dispute anything, rebut and provide your own blanket citations and footnotes.

Not my job.

Dave Davenport -
PS - Your mighty JDAM is dependent on Japanese and Swiss technology. Before Iraq, we had to pay high level trips to Japan and the Swiss Gov't to cajole them into building more chips.

Can you cite any evidence for that? I think not.

Before you wrote that, did you bother to look up Swiss, JDAM, chip crystal on Google?

I think not.

Tony - Give me a call when we are buying Chinese cars and airplanes and computers and televisions.

Earth to Tony - We are buying Chinese computers and televisions and 480 billion worth of other stuff. Cars? Ford said they will not built new assembly lines in the US but are looking to China, as are Hundai, Daewoo, and others making less quality vehicles than the Japanese are. As for airplanes, China has bought some Ilyushin and Tupelov lines for medium range commercial planes with a goal of taking a significant piece of the medium range and short haul commercial airline biz starting in the 2010's.

Hey, did you hear, that dumb hitlermonkey Bush just sold the Chinese a bunch of Boeing 737's?
Why do you think that happened? Do you think that's the last time in history that American technology will every dominate the international market?


It happened because China is not ready yet to take a big chunk of commercial aviation or aerospace away from us yet, which are the last two of 20 high tech businesses we dominated 21 years ago. As for US technlogy dominating the the international market again - unlikely unless things change. China has moved from having less engineers and scientists get undergrad degrees compared to the US ten years ago to graduating 6 times American numbers. As for PhDs, they are producing more than America, and 1/3rd of "our" PhDs are actually going to Chinese. And China has moved ahead of America in level of primary school attainment.

So, you are saying the Chinese economy, whose greatest strength is $2/day labor and NO INNNOVATION is a huge threat to the US. Heh. Give me a tingle when people are climbing over the border fences to get into Communist China to improve their lot in life.

Unlike the Japanese challenge which ended mainly because they had reached employment and compensation levels sought in their economic challenge to us and wages matched US and Euro workers and then some premium for better Japanese quality..so they were done taking away jobs by the early 1990s (BTW, they still kill us on high tech, high value products in trade and own about 4 trillion dollars of property, industry in America inc. 1.3 trillion in debt) - unlike the Japanese, the Chinese are vastly underemployed. 300 million remaining not yet in the Chinese military or manufacturing biz WANT those 2-20 dollar a day jobs. So if the Chinese can make it, they can make it cheaper than anyone and that advantage will last as long as global free trade is allowed to exist and as long as multinational global access to the lowest bid labor - lasts.

As for 10's of millions of illegal immigrants and many many Chinese, Muslims seeking to get into America, that is not a sign of dominance.

It is a sign of a fat, prosperous and complacent country failing to defend it's citizens.

It is also a sign of a country that until recently built up and dominated industries and technology, but is busy pissing them away to enrich a few owners and politicians - and the masses wanting in want a piece of that wealth it took us over 220 years to accumulate and want the decent high-paying jobs before the demise of GM, Delphi, Ford, Intel and our banking and insurance biz signals an end to the good jobs. As for the Chinese, not to mention the Muslims - they want something else - stuff that can give them power over us. Nothing will ever beat how the Chinese managed to get in 10 years the complete designs and physics code of America's most advanced thermonuclear warheads, but their getting all the Aegis technology, Patriot Gen II technology, and F-16 technology come close.

11/26/2005 07:02:00 PM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

Cedarford said...
- I'm not your research assistant providing you citations and footnotes for every fact or assertion stated.

how about any hyper links for anything you say?

c4: And requesting them is a stupid Jewish debating tactic intending to distract, seen elsewhere.

jewish debating tactic? asking you to PROVE your source for anything you say? why is this jewish? maybe your just making up the crap as fast as you type...

c4: This is a blog, not a publishable paper being academically peer reviewed - and you sure aren't a boss or even a professor in any position to demand them. If you dispute anything, rebut and provide your own blanket citations and footnotes.

I have, your full of shit 99.9% of the time, and lazy too... I have refuted many of your stupid points, to the point fo being exhausted, since you pump out more shit that a pig on grits...

c4: Not my job.

yep, i have heard that before, mostly at taco bell for a clean up

11/26/2005 07:19:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

George Washington's Thanksgiving Proclamation.

11/26/2005 08:09:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"c4: And requesting them is a stupid Jewish debating tactic intending to distract, seen elsewhere."
---
That's Rich! Another C4 Classic!
---
Now if I was Anti Chinese, I'd make some crack about Hyperchinks.

11/26/2005 08:13:00 PM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

I wish there was a easy way to search blogs JUST for c4 pearls of shit he poops out..

remember gang this one?

"all zionists are liars"

now asking for hyperlinks are a "jewish debating tactic"

any cool other blood libel's he's spoken?

we should have a thread, "c4's word's of shit"

11/26/2005 08:17:00 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Rumor has it that Merkel admirers the can-do American spirit and is very impressed with the job we are doing in Iraq. So much so that she feels the EU could learn a thing or two about getting constitutions passed from the example of Democratic Iraq. Apparently the new plan will be to have the four main European factions, Latinate (France, Italy, Spain, etc.), Teutonic (Germany, Holland, Sweden, etc.), Slavic (Poland, Czech Republic, etc.) and Anglophone (UK, Ireland) nominate un-elected officials to meet in secret to hash out a constitution between them. Then a week later, all of Europe will vote on it, but in order to reject it, more than 67% of registered voters in four European countries must vote it down. Thanks to OIF, democracy may even flourish in Europe.

11/26/2005 09:07:00 PM  
Blogger Smacko said...

Has anyone else notices that C4 has become more unhinged the better the news out of Iraq is?

Sometime next year, once the drawdowns start, expect his head to explode.

11/26/2005 09:55:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Cedarford,

I've always wondered why the 'so much better' European education didn't manifest itself in the obvious places. For example, the UK Times list of the world's top universities is dominated by US institutions. "France ... managed just two universities in the top 50, with the École Polytechnique in 27th place and École Normale Supérieure 30th. Heidelburg University, in 47th place, was Germany's only entry, one fewer than Hong Kong." On the other side of the world, the Chinese ranking of top world universities is given here. Again, it is totally dominated by US institutions and the highest ranked German university is at number 51 and France's top is at number 93. The other place where the superior French and German educational system ought to have showed up is in economic growth rates; but rates for Germany and France are flat.

It may be that employment is, in its way, a continuing form of education. And in that respect, with French youth unemployment in double-digits (as we know from the the riots), European kids whose education looks better on paper on actually begin to fall behind from lack of application, whereas the American teenager with his reviled sub-European job continues to learn in the workplace.

And then there is money. I read a British White Paper which lamented that Harvard, by itself, had double the endowment of all British universities combined.

11/26/2005 11:54:00 PM  
Blogger truepeers said...

jewish debating tactic? Yahweh?

I think, Pork Rinds, c4 is struggling, reaching, maybe even trying to call you g-d.

Sometime next year, once the drawdowns start, expect his head to explode.

-or, alternatively, Smacko, maybe if Merkel does a real cozy up to America, confirming its leadership and confusing his real loyalties...

11/26/2005 11:55:00 PM  
Blogger Kevin said...

What a minute here, Article One of the Wingnut Manifesto says that the American University system is the root of all evil. Socialism, multi-culturalism, secularism, race mixing, anti-Americanism, anti-Israeli-ism class warfare; sexual decadence, you name it and it exists on US universities. In fact, as David Horowitz, says (Doug, help me out here), the US university system is the most leftist institution in all of America. In order to set the conditions for the 1000-year Wingnut Reich, the US university system must be destroyed.

On the communist Chinese list (which is totally wrong anyway since they put Stanford ahead of Cal, on the while on the Fox News….oops I mean The Times list, Cal is #2 and Stanford #7):

Noam Chomsky’s MIT, #4
Jihadi U aka UC Berkeley #7
Juan Cole’s Univ. Michigan #21
Ward Churchill’s Univ. Col. at Boulder #35
Angela Davis’ UC Santa Cruz #125

But such famous bastions of the Right:
Bob Jones U (not on list)
Falwell / Liberty U (not on list)
Pepperdine (not on list)

We are repeatedly told that socialism doesn’t work but the vast majority of the ranked universities are either outright state-funded socialist entities or are heavily state subsidized private institutions.

We are repeatedly told that multi-kulturalism doesn’t work but the vast majority of the ranked universities are surrounded by all kinds of restaurants from degenerate foreign cultures, and quite often, foreign languages are heard spoken in and around these monuments of International Leftism

Do any of these institutions offer a Masters of Intelligent Design? Do any teach that dinosaurs are 5000 years old? Do any have graduate seminars in Comparative Creationism?

David Horowitz is currently campaigning to turn US universities into Saudi-style madrassas, by instituting ideological quotas and prosecuting offending professors for thought crimes. In fact, he has a whole list of thought criminals, many of them professors at listed universities. He swears that men can’t even enter these campuses if they don’t have Lenin tattooed on the nutsacks. And many of these universities encourage class warfare, the working class children of grease monkeys often mop the floor academically with the inbred scion of blue bloods.

One wonders what will happen to the one area where America is still the undisputed champion of the world, (another could arguable be electronic surveillance) if the Right is able to Saudi-mize our university systems Do you think perhaps the jealous Europeans are financing Horowitz and Co. in order to help their ranking?

11/27/2005 04:07:00 AM  
Blogger The Wobbly Guy said...

Doug-Why're you posting off-tangent stuff? Anyway, there's a solution for such kids. In Singapore, we call it streaming, putting children into programs that are suitable for their intelligence and ability, with the options of moving into a higher or lower band according to their year-by-year results.

Elitist, yeah, but it works.

Wretchard-As for chinese universities, their best students are all going to the US to learn what they can of US technology and science, leaving the dregs at home, which is why their rankings are so pathetic. I think a careful analysis of the top Ivy League science/engineering faculties will reveal a significant number of chinese students, and it would be even more lopsided if not for affirmative action policies and their unfamiliarity with the english language.

And woah! NUS, my alma mater, is in the second band for Asia-Pac institutions! Considering our pathetic size, that's great! Look, I can jog around the entire campus in about 40 minutes. That tells you how small it is.

And look, NONE of the China-HK-Taiwan universities are even ranked in the top 20 Asia-Pac. Given the sheer number of chinese students in NUS nowadays(a recent lunch at the science fac canteen indicated that 50% of the undergrads are from China, and when I left the university choir due to graduation, about 40% of the members were from China) and probably propping up its ranking, that kinda proves my point about their best and brightest flocking overseas for their studies instead of studying at their local institutions. Singapore is extremely attractive for them because we are effectively bilingual, and our culture is still very much chinese, albeit with subtle anglo-saxon influences.

So C4 is not totally wrong. The Chinese are producing a whole lot of smart people, but they're not coming from their local universities, instead from all over the world. But unlike C4, I think that's going to be a huge positive influence on the global economy, especially when they start pumping out new ideas and innovations. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, and because they're in US colleges, they are probably already doing so.

11/27/2005 05:43:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Government only now is indicating awareness of the number of CHINESE SPIES who are gaining access to national secrets in the name of education.

The Patriotic Universities, of course, don't care as long as they swell their coffers.

11/27/2005 07:53:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Yeo,
That was Kevin with the OT stuff.
He pretty well nailed it, so I'll not comment at this time.

11/27/2005 07:56:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Kev thinks the U's are Patriotic and Politically Balanced,
Who am I to judge?
(Not nice to pick on the mentally unbalanced)

11/27/2005 08:02:00 AM  
Blogger David Davenport said...

This is from an interview with Heritage Foundation pimp Jack Spencer:


"... The one example that the [anti-free market people] cite [of a product that wasn’t provided by a foreign contractor]( Sic, "wasn't" in the text, although I think the editor actually meant "was." ) is the Swiss and the JDAM crystal. It took us 72 hours to have two separate fixes on that.

Q: In all of your meetings and discussions, did you hear of any other examples beyond that one?

Spencer: No. That’s it! That’s it! First of all, the Swiss company came around and said, “There was a mistake,here is your JDAM crystal.” And, by the way, the manufacturers themselves got on a plane and figured out a way to get new ones. Within that amount of time not one Iraqi target went un-bombed. So until you start showing me some evidence that you’re not going to have access — after we have just gone through this war— then I’m not buying it. ..."

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:mBsJf8SpS_UJ:www.tmanet.com/uploads/tma_files/2580E8D228F9453EA33D6898E6AC145E.pdf+Swiss,+JDAM,+chip+crystal+&hl=en"

I am one of the so-called anti-free market people to whom Spencer alludes. I believe that all critical American defense equipment components should be required by law to be manufactured in the USA. Foreigners, including Europeans, cannot and should not be trusted with important matters.

-- david.davenport.1@netzero.com

11/27/2005 09:21:00 AM  
Blogger David Davenport said...

Yes, it's good to speak well of the dead, but the late Peter Drucker was wrong about some things.

He was correct that wages per se are not much higher or any higher in the USA than in Germany, Japan, and so on.

Drucker failed to ackowledge that that cost of providing adequate health care and defined benefit pensions for American workers is too high. That is, the costs are too high for American firms if they are going to remain competitive with East Asians.

Eurabians are in even worse competitive shape.

11/27/2005 09:33:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Oliver North: A picture is worth a thousand words

.Beiger and Farah.

On the day before my departure, The Washington Times carried a front-page photo of an unidentified American soldier cradling a young Iraqi child in his arms.
The child was severely wounded by terrorists in Mosul, who used a car bomb to plow through a group of neighborhood children to attack an American patrol.
The blast killed two children and injured 15 other Iraqis.
Some might say the photo is an example of the horrors of war.
It would more accurately be described as portraying the horrors of terrorism.
There is something else striking about this photo. The soldier portrayed, though donned with the accoutrements of battle, is cradling the child in his arms with love and care, affection and tenderness. He has wrapped the young Iraqi child in a blanket to keep her warm; to give her comfort; to protect her dignity. The soldier is holding the child close to him, with his head nestled in close to her small body. It looks as though the soldier is either weeping or praying over her. In fact, it's likely he's doing both.
You get the sense from the emotion displayed in the photo that, when not just a soldier, this man is a father, the kind of dad that probably takes the whole Little League team out for ice cream after a game.

The love and respect this stranger in an American uniform shows for the wounded Iraqi child is evident. It is yet another example of the many profound acts of kindness, charity and bravery that have been displayed throughout the war by young
Americans in uniform
. We've heard the stories or seen the photos of a Marine
sharing his last drop of water with a thirsty Iraqi child.

The Internet -- unlike many of our major newspapers -- is abuzz with pictures of American warriors sharing laughs with Iraqi youth and weeping over the shattered victims of terrorists.
I've had the great fortune to witness many of these acts of kindness firsthand.

Unfortunately, if you are a college student or a law school student in America today, you are unlikely to know just how remarkable your peers who serve in the military are.
Worse yet, your college administrators deny you the opportunity to decide for yourself whether or not you'd like to join their ranks. The Ivory Tower academic elitists in many of America's most "prestigious" colleges and universities today are waging war against the military and working to keep recruiters off of
their campuses
.

Ah yes: Places of INQUIRY, FREE THOUGHT, FREE SPEECH, and open debate.
Depends on how you define "Free" I guess, in this post Clinton Era.

...Just ask Far Right Wing Clintonista Larry Summers how "FREE" Speech is at Harvard!!!

11/27/2005 10:21:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

A MOVIE TO MAKE AMERICA PROUD
By Michelle Malkin · November 27, 2005 10:12 AM

· November 27, 2005 10:12 AM
The Sunday Times of London follows up on Bruce Willis' plans to make a film about the heroes of Deuce Four, based on the reporting of embedded journalist/blogger extraordinaire Michael Yon:

ANGERED by negative portrayals of the conflict in Iraq, Bruce Willis, the Hollywood star, is to make a pro-war film in which American soldiers will be depicted as brave fighters for freedom and democracy.
It will be based on the exploits of the heavily decorated members of Deuce Four, the 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry, which has spent the past year battling insurgents in the northern Iraqi town of Mosul.

11/27/2005 10:26:00 AM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Wretchard -

You are correct about university rankings. The Europeans lag there after forging well ahead of Americans in primary schooling. The problems, if I remember correctly, are twofold: Only a small percentage of the Euros attend university and they rely on public support so the public constituency is not there. Second, the Tradition is that universities are held separate from society - so commercial alliances, private donors are no where near American levels. The Europeans are aware they lag, something that has really come home to them as they see India creating world-class universities, China following, and the former Eastern Bloc which had put lots of money and care into establishing their system.

But as for your unemployment observations, imagine two things that shield America's stats from being like Europess. First, because of Europe's excellent primary education and apprentice systems...people are expected to be in the workforce at 18, not doing the "4 year journey to find oneself and see what career interests me" warehousing that America does. If we attended university at Europoean levels, we too would have a ton of unemployed 18-21 year olds adding to our stats. The other thing is America does not count the chronically unemployed as being part of the unemployed rolls, but Europe does because their long-term unemployed receive benefits. So we have 1/4th of all black males aged 18-25 not working, not in school - but not counted in our unemployment statistics. We are not actually at Germany's level, but last year I saw a stat that America's REAL unemployment number is 7.6%. And that does not count our OTHER warehousing - being the world's leading prison operator and warehousing 2 million basically unemployables in that fashion.

Yeo - Yes, you are right about the Chinese going overseas. In most ways it is good, since it brings China into the world and brain drains some of their best into the Western economies. But it is also the perfect espionage setup. "We the Communist Party will pay for your - one of our national best test performers - to take degrees in America and pay your stipends in addition to free college - in X fields China lags behind in we are interested in supplanting America in one day. But we ask, no demand, that you cooperate in helping your Motherland which has given you everything by giving something back...information, recruitment of like - minded overseas Chinese, get a green card or marry an American woman, preferably 100% Han - and get into industrial and military entities that compete with China. Not classic spying, but Spy-Lite. Even small pieces of the jigsaw are helpful..."

Yeo may be right long term, but I see China retreating from democratic institutions and becoming more nationalistic and more into seeing the economic world as the Japanese did and in some ways still do - industries are meant to be taken away from others in peaceful warfare, information the enemy foreigner has must be obtained by all methods. Military technology must be stolen.

What China has done with their university alumni spy networks has surpassed what Russia did with sympathetic Jewish communists obtaining America's A-Bomb secrets. The design and code of America's most advanced MIRV thermonuclear warheads has enabled China's ballistic missile sub program to launch. It also got the complete Aegis radar and missile control program. And industrially, supercomputer design, computer-programmed precision milling, and more and more pieces and parts of the last sectors of technology America still dominates in.

11/27/2005 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Kevin - a First Ammendment Post you might find of interest.
(Like living in Roswell for you, no doubt.)

11/27/2005 11:10:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

The French say that, but do the really mean it? If they do, good God: someone please relegate them to a Syria-sized position of authority within their beloved transnational organizations as quickly as possible. How's the state of their age-old alliance with Russia now that Gaullism has become technically obsolete along with the implosion of the USSR? I never read much about that, other than in the context of the usual anti-US cabal, which of course conceals much more than it illuminates. Germany will have to move closer the Anglosphere to relieve itself of its economic torpor, in any case, and regardless of the aesthetic requirements of contemporary domestic politics.

But that is truly astounding that the French believe that. The United States and Britain are so obviously the creators and define-ors of the modern moderate republican government of liberty and equality, and Westphalia so completely annihilated in the First World War, that France's decline will likely be dated not from 1871, or 1914 or 1940-1 as the French might themselves accept, but 1791, 1815 or at the latest 1830. Somehow the meme that Rome fell because of chronic civil war never made it to the sexy forefront, but obviously that is the real reason it fell. France will be shown to have suffered a similar fate - as has Russia. The fate of China under similar circumstances remains to be seen. The US and Britain, it should be said, have also been the most Stable powers, despite their various inner tumults.

11/27/2005 03:26:00 PM  
Blogger The Wobbly Guy said...

Comparing the European and American systems, I'd have to say C4 is idealizing the europeans because even with their apprentice and primary education systems, their unemployment rate is still higher than the US and most of the East Asian economies... even after accounting for the hidden unemployment he postulates for the US. The welfare system they have in place is negating their advantages, while the US has less of a problem.

And there are the useless degrees being pumped out in Western universities, both European and US. Media studies, surfing, etc. That's also a factor, contributing to unemployment. It's far better for people to get a diploma or an apprenticeship in a trade than go for college in such patently stupid subjects.

The value of degrees has been diluted in the name of mass public education, which has somehow become an overriding goal of public policy makers in developed countries, no matter that more than 50% of the graduates might be drooling idiots.

Hey, they got a degree, they must be educated!

11/27/2005 07:43:00 PM  
Blogger The Wobbly Guy said...

After reading Kevin's comments, I must add there is a difference between the faculties that Horowitz is targeting and the actual productive faculties that are the driving force behind innovation, research and technology.

Awards and research papers in these fields(physics, chemistry, biology) are the biggest factor behind rankings, not talk-about-nothing papers from the humanities. Remember the physicist Alan Sokal and the awesome hoax he played on the humanities folks? You won't see IBM or Micro$oft contributing much to the liberal arts faculty either.

Horowitz is mainly slamming the arts and social sciences, and while that is an indictment on his lack of perspective, and probably due to his own background as being from those faculties, he's completely correct when describing the political bent of those faculties.

Science and engineering students tend to be much more balanced politically, and interested in results rather than hyperbole. Incidentally, that's also where you find most of the chinese students. You don't find many, if any, chinese students in Feminist Studies, for example. That alone should say something.

Oh, I forget to add that most of the drooling idiots mentioned in my previous post seem to graduate from the humanities too. You sure won't find idiots graduating with a chemistry/physics major.

11/28/2005 05:24:00 AM  

Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home


Powered by Blogger