Sunday, January 06, 2008

The men without a country

"Islamic extremists have created "no-go" areas across Britain where it is too dangerous for non-Muslims to enter, one of the Church of England's most senior bishops warns today. The Rev Michael Nazir-Ali, the Bishop of Rochester and the Church's only Asian bishop, writing in the Telegraph, says that people of a different race or faith face physical attack if they live or work in communities dominated by a strict Muslim ideology."

Bishop Nazir's comments are more than just another warning against the growing presence of Islamic extremism in the West; they are a sign that the open, liberal public space, a condition once considered an irreversible harbinger of things to come by those who forsaw The End of History, may now be passing into oblivion, at least in parts of Europe. The Telegraph continues:

Writing in The Sunday Telegraph, he compares the threat to the use of intimidation by the far-Right, and says that it is becoming increasingly difficult for Christianity to be the nation's public religion in a multifaith, multicultural society. ... Echoing Trevor Phillips, the chairman of the Commission for Equalities and Human Rights, who has said that the country is "sleepwalking into segregation", the bishop argues that multiculturalism has led to deep divisions.

Nazir Ali's larger criticism is that Multicultural Project has achieved the precise opposite of tolerance and that European societies are in danger of being split up into new ethnic enclaves.

Paul Hasluck, a talented writer who went on to become Australia's Governor General in the 1970s, recalled scenes which were commonplace during his childhood in Western Australia in the 1920s in his autobiography, Mucking About.

Kalgoorlie schoolboys seemed to be given to chanting derisive rhymes. There were convent schools as well as state schools. The state school urchins used to follow the convent boys down the streets chanting.

Catholic dogs jump like frogs
And eat no meat on Friday.
Catholic dogs jump like frogs.
In and out of the water.

Hasluck's recollection reminds us that not so long ago -- within living memory -- it mattered very much whether you were Irish or Polish, Jewish or Protestant, Chinese or Filipino. But those difference -- as pundits analyzing Barack Obama's victory in the Iowa caucuses never cease to point out -- seemed have become less important over the decades. In that context, Bishop Nazir Ali's warning that "no-go" areas have cropped up in Britain are all the more astounding. The perverse accomplishment of the Multicultural Project has been to reverse the process of community building it set out to hasten.

Why this paradoxical result should be the case is an interesting question to consider. Hasluck's biography itself provided a clue to the answer. The public space increased as love for the nation increased. As people began to identify themselves as Australians the relative differences between them decreased, as did the jeerings. But not only did a healthy patriotism actually expand the public space, it was, Hasluck argued, the prerequisite to respect between nations -- an observation that would shock the politically correct multiculturalist, who normally believes the precise opposite. Hasluck's argument is simple and commonsensical and for that reason probably incomprehensible to the post-modern. Describing his feelings following a return from England as a child, he wrote:

My own deeper love and knowledge of Australia is refined by a shared love of England. In love of our country each of us realizes a common humanity coming from deep wells. A feeling for one's own country is the clearest way to feeling deeply for men in other countries. The folly and failure of so many attempts by internationalists to do good comes from the fact that they lose sight of the true goodness in other countries when their own senses are blunted to the goodness of their own.

The observation that a genuine appreciation of other cultures must begin with a respect for one's own may seem self-evident until one realizes how rarely it is made. That argument naturally extends itself to a critique of multiculturalism. Having destroyed the feeling of security that comes from belonging to a larger home, the country, multiculturalism has left nothing for individuals but a retreat into the doubtful safety of sect, race and tribe. The Pale is back; and we are all beyond it.


Blogger Charles said...

Always remember that in the end the Europeans are going to kick out the Moslems.

It is vitally important for the survival of the USA that those Moslems kicked out of Europe --return to their countries of origin in Africa the middle east and south asia.

Why? If they come to the USA -- they will murder this country.

1/06/2008 07:07:00 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

In a related development American Jihadi Adam Gadahn tore up his American passport to protest American policy in the mideast.
Like we really wanted his flea bitten traitorous butt back here anyways.

1/06/2008 08:11:00 AM  
Blogger al fin said...

The Muslim demographic challenge is the harshest challenge the UK has faced since the German bombings in WWII. In a way, the Muslim demographic assault is worse, in that even if England had a strong firm government with the best interests of Britishers at heart--which it does not--there is little a strong government could do in the atmosphere of multicultural political correctness that permeates the courts, schools, and media.

1/06/2008 08:23:00 AM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

Islamic no-go areas are a species of a much broader problem afflicting the West.

No-go areas abound in this country, as well, organized around ethnic identity, animated by a religious devotion to a violent code.

We're growing a lot of cancers, folks. The real problem is not an opportunistic Islam, it is something closer to home.

1/06/2008 08:32:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

It's going to be bloody...

It's going to come where we least expect it...

In the end the black rockers do not have a clue who they are fucking with...

the white europeans....

thank all that is holy that the black rockers dont KNOW how to listen....

I will laugh my Fat Ass off the day i see, MILLIONS of moslems RUNNING to the borders heading BACK to africa, pakistan, arab world & the like

I am over feeling compassion for the cult of death, aka black rockers, aka islam

1/06/2008 08:54:00 AM  
Blogger Peter Grynch said...

Luckily France banned headscarves, so they no longer have ethnic problems over there!

1/06/2008 09:05:00 AM  
Blogger Saltburn subversives said...

Luckily, The Libertarians are coming

1/06/2008 09:48:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

I've never been able to understand why I'm supposed to appreciate another culture that practices female genital mutilation, aborts girl babies, sets brides on fire, hacks off limbs for theft, practices slavery, or spends a majority of its time on strike to preserve its vacation time.

I can remember the first time I saw a flyer about "diversity / multi-cultural is good" because it didn't make sense to me then, and it still doesn't now.

There has got to be a really heavy guilt-trip as part of the sentiment that a lot of people have bought into - either that, or the multi-culti-niks simply don't know what all those other cultures that they're trying to equate us with are up to behind closed doors. And, increasingly, out in public with their no-go areas, stabbing on the streets of famous people who don't agree with them, and nightly arson rampages.

1/06/2008 10:22:00 AM  
Blogger Nomenklatura said...

It's worth noticing what the creation of these 'no-go areas' means on the ground.

In every instance, what happens is that an immigrant population starts restricting the freedoms of a group of citizens within a local area, and then the wider population chooses to abandon their own citizens rather than face up to the challenge of making effective rules for the immigrants, and enforcing them.

Every 'no go area' is a neighborhood where the local residents were abandoned to violence and instability years ago.

In Britain this started when 'New Labour' made it plain that they would not support their own police if they were caught enforcing laws on immigrants, including illegal immigrants. A certain 'sham' level of enforcement would be acceptable; beyond that, no. The actual level of crime emanating from a given immigrant community, for example, would be no excuse.

This always happens in lower income areas at first, because that's where the immigrants are. Higher income people don't feel directly threatened where they live, and so find it easy to prioritize their multicultural dreams over any sense of solidarity with their countrymen whose liberty is thrown overboard.

All of this was allowed to go on without objection for years before the emergence of the wider sense of unease we are now seeing. The bill for many accumulated, convenient betrayals is now coming due.

1/06/2008 10:28:00 AM  
Blogger Mr X said...

I agree with Aristides, the problem goes beyond muslim occupation, there is something rotten in the state of Denmark (and England, and Italy, and France... etc)

It is a sort of moral disease. There is no will to reproduce, fight, or even uphold the basic law.

Check this story about how a hooligan assaulted a 96 year-old and made him blind of one eye, all in view of CCTV, and walked free because the judge thought that sending him to jail "would do nothing to protect the public".

Not to mention all the criminals pertaining to "minorities" (so far) that walk free because their inprisonment "could send the wrong message".

The multiculturalists think that they are building a world of "peace", they are ushering the return of fascism (on both sides).

1/06/2008 10:28:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Every 'no go area' is a neighborhood where the local residents were abandoned to violence and instability years ago.

This is, I think, true. Which makes me wonder why a Muslim no-go area is any worse than a ghetto in Watts LA or Harlem NY or Chicago or any other big city which is been left to the crooks, the insane and the druggies.

Sometimes those areas are invaded by developers and police and cleaned up so that normal people can reclaim them. More frequently, however, they are just left to fester with normal people whispering to each other to avoid them lest Very Bad Things happen.

Which means that Muslims as a whole are now being placed on the same moral level as crooks, druggies and the insane. They must be so proud of themselves.

1/06/2008 10:35:00 AM  
Blogger Kevin said...

Besides the “no-go” areas that Aristides mentioned there are obviously another sort of no-go area that is becoming very popular in the United States -- namely, gated communities, where the separation is based on social-economic level. In other words wealth.

But multi-classism, the ideology foisted on America by people of wealth, will not allow any moral judgements against rich people. You are immediately branded a “Marxist” if you dare point out the similarities between people of wealth and people of Islam Closing yourself off behind barbed wire fences with armed guards keeping the infidels out, putting your children in exclusive private schools and belonging to private social clubs where the unworthy are not allowed is all just another life-style choice -- there’s nothing wrong with it if you are rich.

1/06/2008 11:01:00 AM  
Blogger Dr. Ferris said...

Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country, but no one goes around setting cars on fire. In Turkey, the overwhelming share of perpetrators that commit terrorist acts belong to the PKK, a Marxist faction. In Iraq and Afghanistan, the terrorist factions prey on the civilian population, and are replete with the newest Russain and Chinese-made weapons and equipment.

Something else is at work here. Something Leftist.

1/06/2008 11:26:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Kevin, in your anti-American hatred you are overlooking history. YOu *do* understand that the wealthy have *always" set themselves and their families away from the hoi polloi, don't you? Not just in the United States, but historically we have castles with moats in both England and France, as well as throughout Europe. Anthropologists find keeps buried throughout the Middle East left over from when the Bedouins were fighting among themselves, and there are several great sieges recorded by Homer, et al, which would never have happened but for walls erected to keep the barbarians out. Indeed, China attempted to wall off its whole country.

Finally, do you really think a people responsible for erecting the Pyramids in Egypt practiced the sort of flat social economics you blathering on about?

Sometimes reading leftist drivel, one is just left sputtering and muttering, "Sheesh!". You will be delighted to know, Kevin, that you have just reached such a level of sheesh-osity.

1/06/2008 11:36:00 AM  
Blogger Kevin said...


in your anti-American hatred you are overlooking history. YOu *do* understand that the wealthy have *always" set themselves and their families away from the hoi polloi, don't you? Not just in the United States,

Sorry but nothing in my statement says that rich people only create no-go areas in the United States. I know in the south of France they also have gated-no go zones for the rich. But the point is that I was responding to Aristides remark about other groups who create exclusive zones in the United States. Is he “anti-American” for not pointing out that ethnic groups in other countries also create no-go zones?

flat social economics you blathering on about I reread my comment and no where did I mention anything about “flat social economics”. I was indeed making moral judgements though about the rich. When you make moral judgements about Islam are you automatically calling for a flat religious system?

And you are correct there has never been or never will be a society that has anything close to a flat social economic system. In fact the whole idea of civilization is that there are different economic classes; some of these classes need to be free from manual labour to develop art and priestly culture. I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem with though is the idea that different economic classes are not engaged in a continuous struggle for economic resources. Again, this is not zero-sum, the classes need to work together in some ways. But there is always some space for competition. Wealthy people get this. The first thing George W Bush did upon entering classes was transfer a huge sum of cash to the wealthiest Americans. Fair enough, America is a democracy and if working and middle class people had half a clue they would protect themselves against this kind of asset grabbing. The problem in America is that the wealthy have created such a powerful information warfare tool in the corporate media that middle and working class people no longer realize they are in a struggle for resources. America is based on competition for resources and power between different groups within the framework of a legal system that should provide a level playing field for all to compete. When a large proportion of the population stop competing because the multi-classists will call them Marxists or flat social economic pushers then there is a serious problem

But back to the point of Wretchard’s post. Is it wrong for Islamic groups in Britain to create no-go zones? Is it wrong for rich people in America to create no-go zones. If your answers to these two questions are different then does that not make you a moral relativist?

1/06/2008 12:15:00 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

The transnationalists wanted to be "Citizens of the World", but they forgot to love the world they lived in.

1/06/2008 12:32:00 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

You're last analysis is dopey. Rich people create no go zones based on property rights. They have the means to protect themselves and their families from real or imagined threats not from an economic class but from a criminal class. Of course property rights don't exist in your Marxist paradise except for the rulers with the guns.
Muslims meanwhile create no go zones based on bigotry and hatred of the societies that foolishly welcome them to their borders. No comparison.

1/06/2008 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

It seems to me that the difference between Islamic no-go zones and rich people no-go zones is the same as the difference between the Berlin Wall and a wall along the Rio Grande. In other words, which way is the normal flow?

The Berlin Wall was designed to keep people IN, which is a good way of looking at Islamist no-go areas, too.

The fence along the Rio Grande is designed to keep criminals OUT, which is also what gated communities are trying to do.

I don't think you could claim that the Muslims are trying to keep thieves, rapists, burglars and other marauders from the indigenous community out since statistically, Muslims have a much higher percentage of illegal behavior than the neighbors they are preying on.

Therefore, what are Muslims trying to do in creating their no-go zones? I would submit that (1) they're trying to keep their women IN, and (2) they're trying to keep the cops OUT. That is a very very different social, political and personal mindset than what Paris Hilton is doing in retiring behind gates in her new Hollywood home.

1/06/2008 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger Elijah said...

"Is it wrong for rich people in America to create no-go zones."

Are you defining "rich people" as those who own property?

Are neighborhoods private property?

Are gated communities private property?

More specifically, should citrizens be allowed to own property?

A few more questions...

Why is it immoral to produce something of value and keep it for yourself, when it is moral for others who haven't earned it to accept it?

If it's virtuous to give, isn't it then selfish to take?

What is the Black-Red Alliance?

1/06/2008 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Mutli-culturalism is nationalism. I don't get why believing in someone else's nation rather than one's own is superior.

1/06/2008 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger Elijah said...

A digest of John Galt's speech, compiled to under a thousand words was excerpted from a screenplay of Atlas Shrugged, adapted by Daryl J. Sroufe in the early 1980s...

"And then there's your 'brother-love' morality.

Why is it moral to serve others, but not yourself?

If enjoyment is a value, why is it moral when experienced by others, but not by you?

Why is it immoral to produce something of value and keep it for yourself, when it is moral for others who haven't earned it to accept it?

If it's virtuous to give, isn't it then selfish to take?

Your acceptance of the code of selflessness has made you fear the man who has a dollar less than you because it makes you feel that that dollar is rightfully his.

You hate the man with a dollar more than you because the dollar he's keeping is rightfully yours. Your code has made it impossible to know when to give and when to grab.

You know that you can't give away everything and starve yourself. You've forced yourselves to live with undeserved, irrational guilt. Is it ever proper to help another man? No, if he demands it as his right or as a duty that you owe him. Yes, if it's your own free choice based on your judgment of the value of that person and his struggle.

1/06/2008 01:09:00 PM  
Blogger Tom Cohoe said...

The wealthy set themselves apart? Sure. And the wealthy are trying to convert everyone?

Multiculturalism is an invitation to the alien to colonize a homeland.

Since colonies weaken the society which is colonized, it is not hard to understand why the left desires colonization (disguised under the rubric of multiculturalism). Weakened societies are easier to overthrow.

Mao saw the Japanese invasion of China as opportunity. Anything that weakens society is good for any evil force that wants to overthrow it.

1/06/2008 01:31:00 PM  
Blogger wretchardthecat said...

From the middle of the 20th century onwards the West nearly tore itself apart in the civil war over which direction it would take. The conflict was between collectivisms (Europe's only indigenous world religion is Marxism) and systems based upon the rights of the individual that were guaranteed by a source of authority beyond the collective.

Those collectivisms saw themselves as standing beyond history and above traditional culture and united instead by a world view. Their products would be the Superman or the Socialist Man who would replace obsolete types such as the Bavarian or the Englishman. It is striking, when reading the roster of SS Units, to discover how multinational it was. The SS Spanish Blue, the SS Charlegmagne, even as it turns out, an SS unit consisting of Muslims. It's one of the war's ironies that the only French troops to actually be in Berlin at the finish were defending Hitler rather than fighting him. What did a German passport mean to a Jew besides an efficient way or marking him for the camps?

Today these collectivisms still exist in a less virulent form. And just as the French SS were among the last defenders of Berlin so will the Western left be among the most ardent defenders of anti-culture, whatever form it may take. Today it happens to take the form of radical Islam. But Aristedes is correct. If radical Islam vanished tomorrow, the theme of self of destruction would embrace yet another movement. The problem is basically not with Islam. It is with auto-immune disease afflicting the West.

1/06/2008 01:37:00 PM  
Blogger Whiskey said...

Kevin's comment is part of the problem. He defends the no-go areas of Muslims because at heart he hates the West and wants to ally himself with anything that is against it.

This is, as Theodore Dalrymple points out at "Life at the Bottom" the heart of the Liberal enterprise. Destruction of Western Culture. They have succeeded quite nicely.

Kevin is too wrapped up in his own religion of PC-Multiculti nonsense to see that the growth of the rich gated communities is a direct response of the abandonment by Liberals to the rule of law. Under the rule of law, minorities either racial or religious were not given free reign to commit any crimes they liked. Nor was the underclass abandoned to crime and fear. Which make them poorer than in late Victorian England. Certainly than in the Depression era. People are held prisoner in their own apartments by thugs, gang members, drug dealers, and Liberals help keep them there.

People with money see that PC rules mean that no law will be enforced, there is a vast underclass of crime, tolerated by Liberals if not actually celebrated. So they create gated communities ...


It is ironic that a Black man in Los Angeles was more secure in his person under segregation than now under Liberal PC rules. Which allow gangs to do what they will.

More dangerous is that ceding the primary function of government -- public safety -- to PC means that people will seek their own solutions.

Gated communities for the rich. Weapons carrying for the poor. Protection money for ordinary shop keepers. Reliance on religious organizations: Black Muslims, Seventh Day Adventists, etc. for everything else the Liberal governments fail to produce.

Mark my words: a Cromwell WILL arise. In the UK and elsewhere.

1/06/2008 02:43:00 PM  
Blogger wretchardthecat said...

I don't know whether a Cromwell will arise, but I suspect that the great drama whose militant phases seemed to end in 1945 and 1989 didn't suddenly stop on a dime. The cultural forces which fueled the Second World War and the Cold War still live on, in mutated form.

Most of the discussion about a "Fourth World War" assumes the combatants will be the "West" versus "Islam". But it may be that the Fourh World War is even now under way, and the combatants as ever are the West versus its doppelganger. Radical Islam may be to this conflict what Kaposi's Sarcoma is to AIDS; a sign, not the cause of the disease.

It may even be, as I've argued elsewhere that the next September 11 will come from somewhere other than al-Qaeda. Maybe it will take the form of a biological attack on a great city by an radical environmental group. Or a dirty bomb attack by a pacifist group. I am not so certain the greatest peril of the future will come from radical Islam.

1/06/2008 02:54:00 PM  
Blogger weswinger said...

I get the feeling that the Transnational Progressives from their own safe havens in Brussels, the UN, universities and Congress know exactly what they're doing. They create unrest in all social dimensions: Open borders erode citizenship rights and priveleges. Crime-ridden streets create popular demand for law enforcement that will finally rule by fear. Chicken Little environmental scares create popular demand for limits to choices in consumption. Debate is stifled by political correctness (see This stuff must be what these elites discuss in the sidebar meetings at Davos.

I wish I shared charles feelings (optimism?) for a popular uprising. But as he says even then it would not be pretty.

I'm afraid I agree with the poet;
"This is the way the world ends,
Not with a bang but a whimper."
The Anglican Tory by adoption, T.S. Eliot saw it coming.

1/06/2008 02:57:00 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

As ethnic no-go areas increase in major metropolitan areas in Europe the educated, productive middle class folks move out of the city, and in increasing numbers out of the country.

Slick politicians see the shifting demographics, run on immigrant friendly platforms, get elected, pass and enforce immigrant friendly laws, and pay for it by raising taxes on the educated, productive middle class folks who then move out in greater numbers - and the beat goes on.

Factor in incredibly high birth rates in the no-go population and it becomes a mathematical certainty that major cultural shifts will occur in Europe over the next couple decades as the "youths" reach maturity. Probably further out in the US.

The same dynamic is at work in Southern California. There was 115,000 net emigration of established residents from LA County last year but the population increased by about 160,000 from legal and illegal (primarily) Mexican immigrants and births.

Fractionalization, or Balkanization if you prefer, if the most dynamic trend in the West of the 21st century. The people fleeing the no-go areas are accumulating in what they hope are or will be safe areas. They in turn will elect politicians who provide the safety.

I don't where this whole process will end up but it seems unavoidable that it will end up in internal and external strife across the West. Whether or not democracy will be able to accommodate such widely disparate demands is not a certainty. Perhaps the equivalent of mega versions of Greek city-states is in our future.

1/06/2008 02:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

weswinger, last I heard, Kevin was behind Iron Gates in Brussels!

1/06/2008 03:21:00 PM  
Blogger Mr X said...

I think this auto-immune disease, or "death wish" if you will, was always present, but now is present in just too many people, it is even seen in comments such as our marxist friend Kevin here, who equates temporary accumulation of material possessions ("class") with ethnical or tribal identity.

Kevin, do you really think that "evil" rich people who isolate themselves in search of security are the same as muslim thugs that will break your skull if you walk in "their" muslim-only neighborhood (in many cases in Europe, living in houses paid by the State, that is, paid by all the other suckers from the majority of the population who are then forbidden to walk in their own city)?

Islam is not the problem here (as others have mentioned, there are other no-go zones in most major towns), but it will be once the population reaches a certain point.

You can live on no-rules multiculturalism only for so long.

1/06/2008 03:22:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Indeed, with POTUS and large numbers of our political class openly encouraging disrespect for existing law they swore to enforce, since
"Family Values Don't Stop at the Border"
(What a warm, cute, and compassionate way to declare your desire to eliminate borders!)
Aristides said...
Islamic no-go areas are a species of a much broader problem afflicting the West.

No-go areas abound in this country, as well, organized around ethnic identity, animated by a religious devotion to a violent code.

We're growing a lot of cancers, folks. The real problem is not an opportunistic Islam, it is something closer to home.

1/06/2008 03:45:00 PM  
Blogger Whiskey said...

As Dalrymple further says, and I (I was once a teacher in an inner-city, nearly all Mexican, suburb of LA) by my own experience can attest, multiculturalism bring MORE not less religion.

All of my students had some form of religion of one sort or another, along with their parents. Some were Seventh Day Adventists, some Mormon, others Baptist. Only about 70% or so were Roman Catholic and the Roman Catholicism was not my mother's -- it was akin to that of New Orleans, where churches double as voodoo temples in off hours. All sorts of saints and weird figures and customs never sanctioned by the Church would appear.

1/06/2008 03:47:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Someone once wrote that
"Haiti is 90% Catholic,
and 100% Voodoo.

1/06/2008 04:35:00 PM  
Blogger Whiskey said...

Why I think the UK will get a Cromwell (and France, Germany, and Italy may not):

1. The UK Liberal elite has totally destroyed pride in country, history, heritage, a belief in right and wrong, education, and a will by political powers to stand up for ordinary people against both native and foreign inclined thugs.

2. Ordinary people have no where to turn to be safe in their own persons and places. The Authorities tell them it's their fault, side with the thugs (native and foreign) at every turn, and tell the ordinary people to shut up and take it.

3. Middle and working class people are currently fleeing. Those with money and/or skills leave for the US and elsewhere. Most are stuck, and have no protector from thuggery. Eventually the no-go areas will grow and grow until there is a cry for a new Arthur or Cromwell to save them.

4. And one will arise. Perhaps from thuggery of football clubs. Or a disenchanted military leader seeing great weakness amongst a corrupt government unable to fend for itself. Perhaps even a criminal leader.

5. The silencing of dissent, particularly among bloggers like Lionheart (who faces arrest for "inciting racial hatred" for his remarks that Islam presents a threat to the English way of life) guarantees no corrections until it is too late for anything but a Cromwell. Of course the silencing of the dissent convinces ordinary people that the Authorities are on the side of the thugs.

It is interesting to note that the Churches closely identified with the elites and government have suffered. The CoE being replaced in the UK by Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholicism in Ireland being replaced by ... Evangelicals. Lutherans and other protestant denominations in the Netherlands, Scandanavia, and Germany being replaced by Roman Catholicism. Spain having Roman Catholicism being replaced by Evangelicals. And of course Islam replacing Christianity everywhere.

France, Germany, Denmark and Italy still seem to have pride in their own identity, not a total muzzling of dissent, and a recognition that their own elites hold on government and all else that flows from it depends on legitimacy -- legitimacy in meeting the minimum of public safety.

France already has no-go zones but has at least the will to start to tackle them.

The danger of course is that if a Cromwell arises, Muslims will call on their co-religionists elsewhere for help creating a regional or world-wide war out of a local conflict. See: Gavrilo Princep.

1/06/2008 04:58:00 PM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

This is also thread-relevant, I think.

Watching Mrs. Edwards speak about healthcare, I was struck by her insistence that 1) there are people who must undergo extensive surgery to survive, but many of them can't because there are no government programs in place to take care of the kids while they are getting treatment, and 2) this problem is big enough to mention in a Presidential campaign speech that lasts 20 minutes.

Somewhere in there is a glimpse of the void, of the socio-ethical decay that is killing us.

We've fallen quite a bit since Alexis de Tocqueville took a peek.

1/06/2008 05:21:00 PM  
Blogger Kinuachdrach said...

A few bold souls among the multi-culti lot have started referring to World War I and II as European Civil Wars. Which is as interesting as it is inaccurate.

In the US, it is pretty clear that there has been civil conflict from the beginning, with many Royalists in the Colonies rejecting independence & supporting the Brits. Apart from WWII, almost every conflict since then has had a "civil" element to it -- Vietnam became a US civil conflict fought in someone else's back yard.

Today we have the unsustainable position that the supposedly democratically-elected Congress is an object of contempt for 4 out of 5 Americans -- and yet every day Congress extends its tentacles deeper into the life of the nation.

It does not take much imagination to see the US military (admired by 4 out of 5 Americans) eventually deciding to adopt the kind of role that the Turkish military has played -- and enforcing constitutional limits on elected officials, by force if necessary.

Blood in the gutters. Unfortunate, but the only way forward for the US.

As for Europe, there will be no Cromwell -- since there is no militia from which a Cromwell could emerge. But Europeans may welcome a new Tsar Ivan who will cleanse their neighborhoods in exchange for their liberty.

1/06/2008 05:39:00 PM  
Blogger wretchardthecat said...

The buzz right now is that Obama is heading for a blowout in New Hamshire and will beat Hillary by 10, maybe 15 points. The contests are interesting not only in themselves but in what they reveal about the underlying landscape.

There is now no return to the illusory halcyon days of the 1990s, a theme which dominated much of the media hatred for GWB. For good or ill, we are trapped in the 21st century. I think think even the Dems know that; and their response has been to rely on the new face, not new skills or policies, to cope. It's desperate in a way. The Dems need Obama more than Obama needs the Dems. Without the illusion of Hope they must see their program from what it is: threadbare and old.

But are the Republicans in any better case? In one sense I think they are. They know they are in the midst of a world crisis. But I worry about the tendency among some of the Republican Presidential candidates to assume that safety lies in a return to the principles of the past. It does in part, but I think, conservatives need a post-Reagan, someone who will see the world not in Cold War terms, but with eyes to the threats of the future and the opportunities that lie there.

Obama is what the Dems have in lieu of a plan. The challenge for the conservatives is to do better than to simply rely upon a new face to sheild them from the dangers of the coming years.

1/06/2008 05:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This audio reports 30 Al Q Training Camps churning out Jihadis for Pakistan, Europe, and Afghanistan.
If you download the mp3 you can skip the first 5 minutes of overly theatrical music, and etc.

Crisis Watch mp3

Enter the nightmare scenarios:
Global Crisis Watch explores the dangerous days ahead in the post-Benazir Bhutto environment in Pakistan with Dr. Rohan Gunaratna, author of Inside al Qaeda and director of Singapore’s International Center for Political Violence and Terrorism Research, in Dhaka, Bangladesh, military analyst Bill Roggio, editor of The Long War Journal, in New Jersey, and B. Raman, former chief of India’s Research & Analysis Wing and current director of the Institute for Topical Studies, in Chennai, India.

1/06/2008 06:46:00 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Although I cannot point to any study to substantiate my thesis I think that distinctive native cultures reach an irreversible shifting point of no return long before the immigrant minority becomes a majority or even a sizable minority.

The snippets we see constantly about British authorities stomping on the rights of native Brits to advance one Islamic demand or another suggests that England may have already hit a cascade level.

Charles and several others continue to believe there will be a popular native uprising that will throw the Muslims out of England. I don't see any evidence of that. Not when the government itself acts against the interests of the native citizens and uses the power of government to hasten its own demise.

1/06/2008 06:51:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Sam said...
A man with a history of mental illness entered an emergency room with two live grenades and was tackled by a security officer, authorities said.

Detroit Receiving Hospital guards searched the man after he triggered a metal detector Saturday night. An officer found the man had a grenade in one hand with the pin out, The Detroit Free Press reported.

The officer tackled him, and the emergency room was evacuated. No injuries were reported.
Tackled by Security
Hewitt has an Audio featuring current Marine Corp training, which includes computer generated material and a Course designed by a retired Detroit Police Officer, that being the City that most closely resembles battlegrounds in ME locales!
(and by far the largest Muslim Demo)

1/06/2008 07:00:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

peter said....

Charles and several others continue to believe there will be a popular native uprising that will throw the Muslims out of England. I don't see any evidence of that.
agreed. there is no evidence of that currently.

1/06/2008 07:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Sgt. William Jones, Michael Alvarez
Hewitt: Hour 1 - Hugh talks politics and Canadian boycotts with Columnist to the World, Mark Steyn, and
then begins a long discussion with members of the Marines and civilians charged with training of young Marines going abroad to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Hours 2 and 3
- Hugh continues his conversation about the training our young Marines are now receiving before going to Afghanistan and Iraq, and then later in the hour is joined by retired Marine and Congressional candidate Duncan Hunter II

1/06/2008 07:30:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

What is "Occupation" said...

I will laugh my Fat Ass off the day i see, MILLIONS of moslems RUNNING to the borders heading BACK to africa, pakistan, arab world & the like
imho this one ends as a comedy & not a tragdy. As I've mentioned many times I think that the cost of water desalination and transport will collapse within the next 7-10 years to 1/10 current costs making it economically possible to transport desalinsed seawater from the coasts 1000 miles inland to turn all the deserts of the world green and double the size of the habitable. There will actually be more greenfield opportunity in North Africa and the middle east. So when the moslems leave europe for africa and middle east their return to will be the land of opportunity.

1/06/2008 07:32:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Although I cannot point to any study to substantiate my thesis I think that distinctive native cultures reach an irreversible shifting point of no return long before the immigrant minority becomes a majority or even a sizable minority.

I'm remembering a statistical analysis from a year or two ago that addressed this very question. I think it was world-wide, looking at countries around the world who are losing their souls to Islam.

Bottom line result was that when 10% of the local population became Muslim then that's when the Muslim take-over kicked in and became overt.

At the time of this study the United States was not in danger because we don't have that statistical tipping point (yet), but France was definitely over the line, as were several of the other Yurp countries. I don't remember what it had to say about England.

Can't remember who did it or where I read it, but it's out there if you want to Google for it. Unless it was deleted into the memory hole because it fostered Islamophobia or some dumb damned thing.

1/06/2008 07:37:00 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Kevin is right Pax Augusta is over and the town walls are coming back. What you are missing is that roman villas morphed into castles in the 300’s because of increasing chaos and then much later castles gave way to uncrenellated manor houses due to increasing stability.

It isn’t property rights that compel the wealthy to build expensive walls and have them guarded at further expense. It is the complete abandonment of public order.

1/06/2008 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger jj mollo said...

There is an increasing separation between the rich and the poor in America. The Depression and WWII brought the classes closer together, but crime and complacency are dividing us again. One of the tools used by the rich to increase the separation is unchecked immigration for the purpose of reducing labor costs. This expands the economy as a whole, but it reduces the scarcity power of the working class. Their real wages are stagnant or diminishing in spite of steadily increasing productivity.

It's true that technology has provided wealth that they can participate in. Everyone can buy their kids an iPod shuffle and a flat screen TV, but the real stuff is harder. Housing, medical care and decent education keep moving farther out of reach. Rich people segregate themselves to the suburbs, but urban amenities are drawing them back. Hence the need for gated communities -- mini-suburbs in a box.

1/06/2008 09:07:00 PM  
Blogger Whiskey said...

I would not discount an English Cromwell.

What forces do the Government have at their disposal, and how do they treat them?

The military is treated shamefully by their own government, forced by the MOD to change into civilian clothes in freezing tarmacs in order to get the final leg home. After serving in Afghanistan.

THAT treatment just BEGS, BEGS for a coup.

Add to that the treatment of wounded British Soldiers, housed in open National Health wards and stalked/harassed by Muslims, and many other indignities, and you get ripe conditions.

Power ultimately flows from barrels of guns, and who commands them. Who is to say that the military, such as it is, will not follow someone else. Someone who will give them pride of place instead of being ashamed of them? Someone who will agree with their values instead of the enemy? Someone who promises to restore "honor and dignity" and other words which to military men are not jokes?

What happens when the transgendered PC clowns of the elites are no longer obeyed and someone who stands up and promises to "save" Britain from a wave of terror attacks by Muslims? Or even just the wave of PC constantly shoved down people's throats?

Britain's Muslim population is around 2 million. The rest is 58 million. That is about 3% -- and exists as a threat already. Muslims in England IMHO moved too soon, provoking a confrontation that will sadly end in blood.

There are too many people with too much to lose and too little trust and legitimacy among the British elite.

1/06/2008 10:19:00 PM  
Blogger CorporateCog said...


You showed your cards when you wrote "The first thing George W Bush did upon entering classes was transfer a huge sum of cash to the wealthiest Americans."

You pathetic whining socialialist dolt. Why don't you just just run off your transgendered significant one where the two of you can wallow in your BDS while dreaming about Allah.

BTW: The gated communities don't consider themselves part of dar al islam, don't try to enforce sharia law, and don't treat their women like cattle.

1/06/2008 10:35:00 PM  
Blogger Mike H. said...

"BTW: The gated communities don't consider themselves part of dar al islam, don't try to enforce sharia law, and don't treat their women like cattle."

What Putnam said!

1/06/2008 10:51:00 PM  
Blogger wretchardthecat said...

Let's try and keep things civil. Little enough of that elsewhere. Let's not lose it here.

1/06/2008 10:59:00 PM  

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