Friday, January 11, 2008

Nazir-Ali again

Church of England Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali is in the news again. He's being criticized by the Bishop of Oxford.

The Bishop of Oxford has rejected another senior clergyman's fears that broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer in East Oxford could create a "no-go area" for non-Muslims. The Rt Rev John Pritchard backed plans for the call to prayer in Oxford - splitting away from controversial comments made by the Anglican Church's only Asian Bishop, the Rt Rev Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, of Rochester. ...

He said: "I believe we have good relationships with the Muslim community here in Oxford and I am personally very happy for the mosque to call the faithful to prayer in East Oxford. ... Bishop John said practical issues over the number of times the call went out, the volume and whether a trial period would be required would need to be ironed out but said in principle it was "entirely reasonable".

He said: "I would say to anyone who has concerns about the call to prayer to relax and enjoy our community diversity and be as respectful to others as you would hope they would be respectful to you." He added: "I sympathise with those who find any kind of expression of public faith intrusive, but I think part of being part of a tolerant society is saying, 'I don't agree with this but I accept it as part of my responsibility as being part of a diverse community'."

Why not? After all, church bells can peal. Yet maybe it's not that simple. Maybe Bishop John should issue his endorsement for the Islamic call to prayer in Oxford from the pulpit of the largest church in Saudi Arabia, where a million Filipinos, largely Roman Catholic work. That's four percent of the total population of the Kingdom. Muslims only make up three percent of the British population. (BTW, on what street is the largest church in Saudi Arabia?) There are issues of national culture as well as religion in most of these debates. How these issues evolve will be interesting to watch.


Blogger Zenster said...

These useful religious idiots need to understand that without reciprocity all they are doing is feeding the Islamic crocodile.

Fortunately, every once in a while there comes along someone like Nazir-Ali with such personal integrity that his critics make themselves look like utter morons. The CoE's survival is cupped in Nazir-Ali's hands.

1/11/2008 11:33:00 AM  
Blogger Wretchard said...

Europe is no stranger to religious wars. And arguably, when explicitly religious wars came to an end they were replaced by other religious wars under color of ideology.

One solution to this was nationalism, in which each ethnic group got its own country. This had the advantage of grouping people together with their selected type.

Then came the brave new world of multiculturalism, where the relative homogeneity of the nations is slowly being undone. Interesting to see where it will go.

1/11/2008 11:45:00 AM  
Blogger herb said...

Wretchard said
"Europe is no stranger to religious wars."

Someone wrote a comment (and I think it was here) that the Yurps are quite familiar with the practice of ethnic cleansing.

Bp John may think this about somebody yelping from a tower, but it is truly about feeding the crocodile and hoping for the forbearance of the commons.

1/11/2008 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger Wretchard said...

Pajamas Media has an interesting article describe the avowed self-censorship of "shock artists" with regard to Islam.

Grayson Perry serves as the ideal poster boy — or perhaps poster girl — for this discomfiting trend. A Turner Prize recipient and England’s most famous cross-dressing potter, Perry has been heralded for his controversial explorations of religious imagery, which include a vase entitled “Transvestite Brides of Christ” and a portrayal of the Virgin Mary that is best left to the imagination. Yet apparently there are some boundaries that even groundbreaking artists dare not cross.

“I’ve censored myself,” Perry told the Times, admitting that he treads lightly around radical Islam. “With other targets you’ve got a better idea of who they are but Islamism is very amorphous. You don’t know what the threshold is. Even what seems an innocuous image might trigger off a really violent reaction so I just play safe all the time.” Self-censorship thus boils down to self-preservation. “The reason I haven’t gone all out attacking Islamism in my art is because I feel real fear that someone will slit my throat.”

How long will it be before other groups, not simply the Islamists, decide to play that game too? In the 1930s, things had gotten to the point where political parties had their own street gangs. Horst Wessel was a "martyr" long before the word was used in the Islamic context.

Maybe that's why European countries prefer strong governments. Those nightmare days are are staple of the continent's history.

1/11/2008 01:20:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

This is a European affair, and they should handle it as they see fit.

1/11/2008 01:27:00 PM  
Blogger LarryD said...

Does Grayson Perry think that Islam will be tolerant of cross-dressing? He's just keeping himself down on the list of targets, not off of it.

1/11/2008 01:29:00 PM  
Blogger whiskey_199 said...

Except Wretchard, Europe does NOT have a strong government anywhere (except perhaps Russia).

Strong governments do not allow thuggery of either the local native variety nor the Islamist variety to proliferate to the point where they lock people in their apartments/houses. Strong governments do not cede national culture willy-nilly. Strong governments do not allow generations of native workers to be displaced to the welfare rolls.

IMHO much of Europe is ripe for a Napoleon or Cromwell who will position themselves as the champion of the average person. Because such a champion could well rise from obscure poverty to the height of power. That's an intoxicating brew, particularly since those who drink it with him might also rise. There certainly is a power vacuum.

And those tend to get filled.

I wonder what the average person in Oxford (or elsewhere in Britain thinks?) Very likely that the CoE is doomed, another one might actually "fight" creeping Islamization, and perhaps the first stages of looking about for a champion.

Horst Wessel was noteworthy only because Weimar was weak, lacked any sort of legitimacy, and fetishized weakness. Naturally when it came to a street fight it lost.

There were many bad things about the Iron Chancellor. Allowing things to get out of hand was not one of them.

1/11/2008 04:04:00 PM  
Blogger Zenster said...

Whiskey_199: much of Europe is ripe for a Napoleon or Cromwell

Ya know, W_199, you keep banging on this topic like a frickin' drum. It'd be hella boring if you weren't so damn right!

Let's take it a step further, emkay. What will happen after the emergence of such a polarized force?

You keep squawking about how the death camps will be reopened for us, but fail to reconcile that with your predicted military messiah. So, which is it? Dessert topping or floor wax? ... I mean, Cromwell or Brave New Birkenau?

As I've already made clear, I think it's far more likely that Europe will be giving their Muslims guided tours of the Charnel House™ long before slow jihad can outbreed them. This is not due to any sense of alacrity upon the Europeans' part. More's the case that Islam—as it ever has and always shall—will outreach itself just as it is currently doing. After all, who in their right mind would keep poking the West's nuclear-armed dragon with an Islamic pointed stick? These suckers are nucking futs and they'll find out soon enough. I just worry about how many Westerners will need to die so that the rest finally catch on.

1/11/2008 08:47:00 PM  
Blogger Wadeusaf said...

Noise Abatement standards.

1/12/2008 09:29:00 AM  
Blogger Mad Fiddler said...

"WILL" (Well-intentioned Looney Liberal): Gee, folks... Can't we all JUST GET ALONG?????? I mean, just because the house of Saud won't let Christians be Christians in their country shouldn't mean.

SFX : ***BLAM***

... lingering smell of cordite and bright copper smell of blood...

Hafez: "Ismael, you have again glorified Merciful Allah by ridding the world of yet another pesky secular humanist with your IED."

Ismael: "The silly fools! Always they think we can be dealt with as equals."

Both climb on their camels and exit snickering.

1/12/2008 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger Zenster said...

LarryD: Does Grayson Perry think that Islam will be tolerant of cross-dressing? He's just keeping himself down on the list of targets, not off of it.

What Grayson "thinks" is far more evil. He knows there's no damn chance of his escaping the lashes and stonings of an Islamic tribunal. All he wants is that the more brave and aggressive opposition forces absorb whatever slings and arrows before him. There can be few more monumental shits on earth.

1/13/2008 04:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Peace. The objective of humanity is to find peace and serenity.Why do the descendants of Adam and Eve ("Adam and Eve" a reality agreed upon by everyone, thank God) find pride in being "the man"? Strength is not muscle power, though it may seem that way in life sometimes. But the God who created Adam and Eve is known for His Justice (a word used often to describe the good intent eg "with liberty and justice for all..."). Deep inside I believe we all know that to be true and are expecting it after we die-Justice after being judged by our Creator. A sane man/woman never judge or take sides by hearing one side of a story. Before condemning anyone the jury appoints a lawyer to see the accuseds' point of view and to be acquinted with his circumstances, and before uttering judgement every aspect of the case must be fully viewed so as not to give out a wrong verdict- As a Just God would never forgive injustice. If you don't want that hanging over your head on judgement day ("judgement day" another reality agreed upon by everyone thank God) then stop for an instant and ask yourself: what do I know about muslims? and who did I hear it from? and why were you brought up to hate them so? If you want to play Judge, then judge, but first get your facts straight and know about the accused before passing a judgement that will not only affect you, but also your children and your neighbours children and in fact "all" the children of the world. Remember when you condemn, you are also condemning babies in their cradles muslims, christians , jews ("muslims,christians, and jews" are all labelled Abrahamic religions Mohamad,Jesus,and Moses all follow the teachings of Abraham peace be upon them all) and every other born soul on the face of the earth under any religious label. My brother/sister in humanity if you want to know about flying please don't get a recipe from a cook, get flying instructions from a pilot … If you are serious about playing judge, then be fair and do your homework, don't mock what you don't know or understand or think you know because believe me you don't, follow your conscience to start visit sites like

4/26/2008 08:19:00 AM  

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