Wednesday, November 28, 2007

War movies

Roger Simon tries to understand why antiwar movies have been doing so badly at the box office. Brian de Palma's Redacted recently grossed so little worldwide it has excited the pity of even amateur movie makers. The artistic failure, Simon believes, is rooted in the distance between the film-maker and the subject. They don't care about the great perils facing the world. They don't care about the history of war-torn regions. They don't care about the causes of the war itself except as a backdrop to make a political statements. The action of Redacted might be located in Iraq, but everyone knows it is really set in Vietnam. A curtain descends between the artist and his subect, a "curious distance, almost alienation" prevents an accurate portrayal of human dilemmas of war. When the primary goal of the cinematic narrative is to portray the United States as Nazi Germany and Bush as Hitler, a cartoon without humor becomes the inevitable result.

What enables a war movie to stand the test of time and achieve critical and commercial success is that it should be first of all about the War. And achieving that is harder than it seems. Very few of the hundreds of war films produced between 1941 and 1945 were really about the war. Beyond scenes of Hellcats taking off and landing from aircraft carriers, or actors pretending to be soldiers in some recently reported battle, many were nothing but soap operas or B-movie thrillers in exotic settings.

It's not surprising that one of those few movies that was actually about the Second World War emerged as the war movie per excellence. Casablanca had no combat footage whatsoever and was set almost entirely inside a saloon. But because it explored the great issues of a civilization torn between barbarism and freedom and the dilemmas of people caught in its tides it became, by popular acclaim, the greatest war movie of the 20th century.

Every line in the script was devoted to the War and its effect on the fugitives trapped in Rick's Cafe. It was about "small people whose troubles didn't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world"; about trying to be a man when you didn't have a country ("It says here you're a drunk. Oh? Then I'm a citizen of the world"). It was about salvaging a last memory before plunging into the abyss ("you've brought back Paris"). It was about great issues, the ones than endured. And therefore Casablanca has remained true, as propaganda never could, even as time went by.

Since September 11, 2001 only one film has come remotely close to being the Casablanca of the war on terror: the Lord of the Rings trilogy. This is not as surprising as it might seem. JRR Tolkien was a combat veteran of the Great War; of the Somme in fact, and John Garth's Tolkien and the Great War carefully argues that Middle Earth was the canvas upon which he projected all the experiences that the Great War had imprisoned within him. John Cofeld, reviewing Garth's book at Amazon wrote:

The heart of this book deals with the influence of the War on Tolkien's writings on Middle earth. I will never be able to read of the Fall of Gondolin again without thinking of the Somme, and never think of Eressea without remembering Tolkien returning home on a hospital ship to see the green hills of England once more.

It's the themes that speaks to us. And it should not have been surprising to hear, in Peter Jackson's film, echoes of so many of the lines that I learned by heart in the endless screenings of Casablanca at the Brattle Street theater in Harvard Square. Here are Humphrey Bogart and Sean Astin delivering essentially the same lines.


Blogger Gary Rosen said...

It's not all that complicated:

1) Americans don't want to be told they're the bad guys, especially when our enemies are so blatantly evil.

2) Regardless of politics, the films suck.

11/29/2007 01:20:00 AM  
Blogger Tarnsman said...

While most of the movie doesn't have a strong connection to the war, there is one scene in Die Hard4 that sums up why America is in the fight:

"I'm nobody's hero, kid"

"You saved my life ten times in the last six hours."

"Just doing my job, that's all. Fuck being a hero. You know what you get for being a hero? Nothing.
You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back. Blah, blah, blah, blah. That a boy.

You get divorced. Your wife can't remember your last name. Your kids don't want to talk to you. You do a lot of meals by yourself. Don't kid yourself, nobody wants to be that guy."

"They why are you doing this?"

"Because there's nobody else to do it right now. That's why. Believe me, if there was someone else to do it, I'd let them do it But there's not. So we're doing it."

"Ah, that's what makes you that guy."

11/29/2007 01:27:00 AM  
Blogger Barry Meislin said...

Here's a rather interesting comment.

11/29/2007 04:47:00 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I am reading a book called "Pacific Alamo" about the defense of Wake Island in the early days of WWII. The author cites the movie "Wake Island" with Robert Preston and Brian Dunleavy. I recall seeing the movie. Its a propaganda film to the max with wooden predictable characters. but still I recall being stirred by it. It's good to believe in our land and the rightness of our cause. Few want to embrace cynical nihilism like Depalma, Redford, et al are producing.

11/29/2007 05:39:00 AM  
Blogger LarryD said...

I think it was Micheal Medvid who said, while he and someone else were discussing Redacted et al on Fox, that de Palma, Redford, etc. were making their films for each other, not the public. It's all about status inside Hollywood's insular, parochial, and Leftist community.

I just hope it's their own money they're spending.

How long, I wonder, can the theater owners stand this?

11/29/2007 06:12:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

The active collaboration of Hollywood and cooperation of studios, writers, actors and the whole film industry with the Office of War Information was critical to maintaining national will and civilian morale durimg WWII.

They are not on our side for this war, and it shows.

11/29/2007 06:19:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

This is all the more remarkable when you consider that “Redacted” was no doubt a carefully planned, explicitly scripted movie with a lavish budget.

And in contrast, “Casablanca” was hastily thrown together on a shoestring budget with dialog written the day before it was needed. “Round up the usual suspects” as the line that showed Louie had changed sides was thought up by two of the writers as they drove home one day. The cast and crew went on location - all the way from Hollywood to the Glendale Air Terminal (still there, although the airfield itself has long since been covered over) – for that famous final scene. “Major Strasser” was the top paid actor. Everyone on the film thought it would be a major flop. In the end, the message overwhelmed the stumbling production.

And the current crop of people in Hollywood can’t do as well despite their vast resources? I’m shocked, simply shocked.

By the way, Alison, you should visit the USMC Museum at Quantico sometime. There, you will see the most precious object in their collection, not one of the gorgeous Corsairs there or that beautiful Hellcat, but a bent and corroded 3-bladed propeller, displayed as it was found, in lying in beach sand. It’s from one of the actual Wildcat fighters that was lost defending Wake Island.

11/29/2007 06:42:00 AM  
Blogger David M said...

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 11/29/2007 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the check back often.

11/29/2007 08:27:00 AM  
Blogger El Jefe Maximo said...

On the subject of war movies and science fiction/fantasy, I'd put in a plug for the first of the Star Wars films -- the ending of which is the Battle of Midway in spaceships. Come to think of it, The Empire Strikes Back was pretty good too.

11/29/2007 08:41:00 AM  
Blogger eggplant said...

El Jefe Maximo said:

"On the subject of war movies and science fiction/fantasy, I'd put in a plug for the first of the Star Wars films -- the ending of which is the Battle of Midway in spaceships."

By bringing up "Star Wars", El Jefe Maximo beat me to the punch.

The total output of George Lucas has been very hit-or-miss (the last two movies of the Star Wars series sucked big time). Despite this, the original "Star Wars" is my all time favorite movie. Lucas did something very clever with "Star Wars" in taking all of the best old formula Word War II movies, boil them down to their essence and then presenting them in a new science fiction format.

El Jefe Maximo has already mentioned how the last scene against the Death Star was like the Battle of Midway. That very cool scene where the Millenium Falcon just escaped from the Death Star and was dog fighting with TIE fighters was simply a recast of a B-29 fighting against Japanese Zeros. Likewise that final scene where Luke Skywalker and Han Solo were decorated with medals by Princess Leia was lifted directly from "Triumph of the Will" (Triumph des Willens) by Nazi German filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl.

Lucas strategy of recycling old WW-II movies was brilliant. It's no wonder the original "Star Wars" was such a popular movie.

Wretchard also mentioned "The Lord of Rings" (TLotR) which was directed by Peter Jackson. Tolkien's original novel was strongly influenced by his combat experience in the trenches of World War I. Also Tolkien was a very deeply religious man (a devout Catholic). Tolkien claimed that there was no allegory intended in TLotR. However it is obvious that considerable unintended allegory snuck into Tolkien's novel, e.g. the Crusades (Mordor=Islamic World) and the influence of Jesus (Gandalf=Jesus). IMHO, Peter Jackson is a second rate director but he managed TLotR brilliantly. The keys to his success was his effective use of the Internet, appropriate use of computer generated graphics and filming the movie in New Zealand. Jackson very wisely setup discussion blogs on the Internet early in the process of his shooting the TLotR. Through the Internet, Jackson used the Tolkien fan base as a feedback loop in determing how to best construct the movie. I guess that was the real basis of Jackson's brilliance: His willingness to take advice from experts. Jackson on his own almost made some blunders that would have spoiled the movie, e.g. inappropriate use of the Arwen and Sauron characters. However the Tolkien fan base through the Internet were able to deter Jackson from making these errors and the movie was saved.

11/29/2007 09:29:00 AM  
Blogger Peter Grynch said...

"Tora! Tora! Tora!" ranks as a top war movie, IMHO. It covers the attack on Pearl Harbor from the point of view of both the Japanese and the Americans.

Aside from being visually spectacular, it made an honest attempt to present a balanced point of view.

The best line in the movie was when the Japanese Admiral, at the end of the movie and the height of victory, says, "I fear that all that we have accomplished today was to awaken the sleeping tiger..."

"Twelve O'Clock High" about bomber flights over Germany was also amazing and is often shown in management classes as a demonstration of how the right man can turn an organization around.

"Kelly's Heroes" starring Clint Eastwood, was a wonderful movie about how men can achieve amazing results given sufficient motivation and a goal.

The worst war movie ever made was "Starship Troopers", where a bunch of politically-correct liberals gutted Robert A. Heinlein's classic science fiction novel. Heinlein, a veteran, gets it. None of the actors/writers/directors on that movie has a clue.

11/29/2007 10:39:00 AM  
Blogger PiltdownMan said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11/29/2007 10:43:00 AM  
Blogger PiltdownMan said...

How well did Gunner Palace do in the box office? From what I recall, many people complained that it was not anti-war enough.

11/29/2007 10:48:00 AM  
Blogger biggerten said...

Actually, Peter, I beleive the quote was "awaken a sleeoing giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

11/29/2007 10:59:00 AM  
Blogger Eric Norris said...

A film folks might want to check out as a precursor to Star Wars is Kurosawa's "Hidden Fortress."

It is a bit less Epic than Star Wars, but it is a little bit more fun, I think.


Anyway, as for Hollywood's craptacular creative output, we are in a transition. We need to find new ways to put together new Casablancas.

Pretty soon technology will permit amateurs and interested investors to come together to produce remarkable things. Mel Gibson's "Passion" might be a model for how this would work. Distribution might be handled like "Indoctrinate U..."

There are stories that urgently need to be told, and we will figure out ways to tell them. And make a pile of money in the process.

11/29/2007 11:40:00 AM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11/29/2007 11:44:00 AM  
Blogger John Aristides said...

In art, "Make what you know" is the the first and last commandment.

Especially in this era, a time when Authenticity is Art, violating that ironclad rule is tantamount to betrayal.

De palma doesn't know war, and he doesn't understand politics and history. His is the worst type of presumptive arrogance: the Charlatan speaking to the great unwashed.

In the end, this type of 'art' comes across as enervated Cliff's Notes, written by people who never read the books. The result is a smelly regurgitation -- of tropes which had already been thrice digested by the intermediaries of modern media, chewed by the grinding molars of cultural bias, before finally, and with furrowed brow, being swallowed by the lazing artiste who finds wisdom in repose.

11/29/2007 11:50:00 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

I think it's less a long-awaited expressive disgust of the constant diet of anti-Americanism than it is the loss of testosterone on the silver screen.

"300" did well and I think that even contemporary titular anti-war movies would do OK if the men were aggressive males who did not have a need to apologize for being a warrior.

Heck, I think running old Samurai movies would be a box office hit. There was never any doubt about what should be done - and the only apologies were for not being manly enough.

11/29/2007 12:24:00 PM  
Blogger Fen said...

Heartbreak Ridge.

Gunny Highway was the epitome of almost every Staff NCO I had the honor to serve with.

11/29/2007 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger always right said...

Will anyone be truly heartbroken if those Hollywood so-pass-their-prime stars or star-turned-directors (or singers like Streisand, Chicks, etc) lose a whole bunch of money because of the anti-American craps they insisted on producing?

I find that I really don't give a damn. The movies or pop songs no longer represent a major part of the entertainment industry. Besides investors (in movie making) can always turn up cheap horrors to make a quick buck. That is why so many of them were made and shown all the time (not just near Holloween anymore).

11/29/2007 02:05:00 PM  
Blogger Valentine Smith said...

Mark Cuban, internet billionaire, owner of the Dallas Mavericks of the NBA, put up the total budget of the movie ($5 million). He also owns HDNet and other hi def channels, one of which features Dan Rather Reports. Obviously, he another member of both the working poor and the Democratic party. 'Nuff said.

11/29/2007 02:57:00 PM  
Blogger dla said...

Gary Rosen wrote...
It's not all that complicated:

1) Americans don't want to be told they're the bad guys, especially when our enemies are so blatantly evil.

2) Regardless of politics, the films suck.

Aptly put. So true.

11/29/2007 05:25:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Yes, in Tora Tora Tora the line was "Awaken A Sleeping Giant." But that often quoted line was a total and complete fabrication, dreamed up by Horrywood (to use the Japanese pronunciation - y'all guess which war picture that is from) to make the end of the movie less of a downer for American audiences.

Yammamoto did say something a bit like that: "For the first eighteen months I will run wild, but if the war continues past that I have garve reservations about Japan's ability to prevail." And sure enough, almost exactly 18 months after Pearl Harbor USAAF P-38's killed the admiral.

The fabricated quote from the film shows the danger of using films to depcit history. It becomes part of the widely held common knowledge. At least in this case it was a fabrication of fact but to some extent probably reflected Adm Yammamoto's beliefs.

As for the Star Wars original trilogy, it was great, but Lucas bought into the popular mythology about Vietnam when he came up with the Ewoks Versus The Empire battle. It was not a bunch of tough little guys in black PJ's that defeated the mighty U.s. In reality, the "Ewoks" were all but wiped out and South Vietnam fell to a combination of traitors in the West and a conventional land invasion that used more motor vehicles than the Nazi invasion of Frtance in 1940.

"Starship Troopers" was indeed a War Movie Crime - except for the shower scene which I liked for some reason.

"Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo" was a great film. The far less well known "A Guy Named Joe" is nearly as good, and used the real Dolittle Raiders as extras.

A little known war film with a definite "Casablanca" feel - and an equally satisfying ending - is "Thunder in the East" from 1952.

11/29/2007 05:27:00 PM  
Blogger El Jefe Maximo said...

Starship Troopers was a bad, bad movie (what would you expect of it after Horrywood -- I love that -- got hold of it)...but a great, great book.

Return of the Jedi was indeed bad...I didn't like the suceeding films either.

How could I forget Heartbreak Ridge ? In fact, as soon as wife isn't looking, I need to replace my VHS copy.

11/29/2007 06:22:00 PM  
Blogger Peter Grynch said...

Some Star Wars fans took a copy of one of the new trilogy and deleted every scene containing Jar-Jar Binks. Not only did their version hang together beautifully, but it was better than the original.

Ther ARE some good anti-war movies, MASH comes to mind. Like Casablanca, it is a movie about the effect of the war on the characters.

The Dirty Dozen was about people overcoming impossible odds.

The Great Escape was notable for its plot and stellar ensemble cast. What would it cost to shoot a movie like that today?

I think of Apocalypse Now every time I smell napalm.

Raiders of the Lost Ark was one of my all time favorites, filmed against a backdrop where the Nazis were the unquestioned bad guys.

Question on Japanese cinema: If "Godzilla" was named by the Japanese, why did they pick a name they can't pronounce?

11/29/2007 08:49:00 PM  
Blogger F451-2.0 said...

Rorke's Drift 1879 becomes "Zulu" 1964. Courage in the face of superior technology/firepower vs courage in the face of hopeless odds. Honour amongst all.

Also fits within the John McLean parameters.

The times never change, only the storytellers.

11/29/2007 08:54:00 PM  
Blogger Gary Rosen said...

"This is all the more remarkable when you consider that “Redacted” was no doubt a carefully planned, explicitly scripted movie with a lavish budget."

Maybe not so remarkablee. There is a lot more wrong with Hollywood today than the politics. Consider the recent remake of "King Kong". I never saw it, and knew I wouldn't when I saw the running time was *three hours*!!! The original was barely 100 minutes long but had numerous unforgettable, iconic scenes that are now folklore.

What arrogance that they thought they had so much more to say than the legendary original. This is not off-topic, for I believe it is the same arrogance that leads them to believe they have more to say about geopolitics than, say, the typical BC poster (to say nothing of Wretchard himself).

11/29/2007 10:23:00 PM  
Blogger Tarnsman said...

Starship Troopers a bad, bad movie!?! Cheesy, yes. A guilty pleasure, yes (count me among the Dina Myers fans). But a bad, bad movie? There are many far worse.

Speaking of guilty pleasures, "The Wind and the Lion" based on a little known incident in 1904 Morocco.

"Now listen here, we represent a modern power. We're talking Marines, battleships, big guns. We are not fooling about.

Why Sean Connery, and not Omar Sharif, was casted as the Raisuli is beyond me, but Brian Keith's role as of TR is a tour de force.

From Wikipeda
"Brian Keith's portrayal of Theodore Roosevelt was widely acclaimed by viewers and is often considered (along with Edward Herrmann's performance as Franklin Delano Roosevelt in Eleanor and Franklin) as being among the best portrayals of an American President."

11/29/2007 11:33:00 PM  
Blogger frogman said...

Interesting that no one has mentioned Oliver Stone's "Platoon." For my money, and as much as I love "Casablanca," this is the greatest war movie ever made - taking the viewer inside the experience of combat to such an extent that you're actually surprised to find yourself on the sidewalk outside afterwards.

It is not an explicitly antiwar movie, but the performances of Berenger and Dafoe show rather than tell us what the director thinks. Unlike much of Stone's other work, it is not a propaganda film, which perhaps is the DQ here at the Belmont Club.

Stone's insight was hard won - he was the kid who fell asleep on watch in the jungle and saw his buddies die as a result, and the movie is true to that experience. We may have to wait another ten years, for some talented kid to come home and make his way in Hollywood, for a film this good about Iraq or Afghanistan.

11/30/2007 06:23:00 AM  
Blogger dima said...

After watching Band of Brothers most War movies really don't impress. Das Boot was good, actually makes you cheer for the Nazis..

11/30/2007 07:59:00 AM  
Blogger eggplant said...

Tlear said...

"After watching Band of Brothers most War movies really don't impress."

I definitely agree. The second DVD "Day of Days" from the "Band of Brothers" DVD set is my favorite war movie.

"Das Boot was good, actually makes you cheer for the Nazis.."

I just bought a used DVD of the director's cut for "Das Boot" and enjoyed it. To properly set the mood, I recommend setting the DVD to spoken German with English subtitles. Also, the commentary about "Das Boot" at Wikipedia is very good, refer to:

Two other good WW-II war movies are "Stalingrad" directed by Joseph Vilsmaier and "Enemy at the Gates" directed by Jean-Jacques Annaud. "Enemy at the Gates" is also about the Battle of Stalingrad but from the Russian perspective. Jean-Jacques Annaud also directed "Der Name der Rose" (The Name of the Rose) which starred Sean Connery. "The Name of the Rose" is among my favorite movies.

11/30/2007 09:18:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

Speaking of anti-war movies being possibly good...

Full Metal Jacket.

Nuff said.

11/30/2007 09:58:00 AM  
Blogger jeyi said...

ref: Grynch on Starship Troopers

I haven't read the Heinlein source novel, but I think you're way off base there. No least because the director, Paul Verhoeven, is regulary whacked as an unreconstructed fascist, not a bleeding heart PC type. Indeed, long before he came to Hollywood (where he directed the first Fatal Instinct, as well as the blackly comic first Robocop), Verhoeven made what I've always considered to be the most disturbing war film I've ever seen (and I'm a combat vet): Soldier of Orange, about the inevitable collapse of the Dutch Resistance in the face of the ruthless, implacable, and technically adept Gestapo.

11/30/2007 10:23:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

jeyi: By itself, the Starship Troopers movie is not a bad piece of SF. Probably above average, in fact, compared to say, a 1950's movie about fighting giant ants.

Admittedly I have a few technical problems with the film including:
1. A basic principle of markmanship is that you actually point the weapon at the target, not just wave it in the general direction on full auto.
2. They apparently never heard of airpower. Some hundred of years in the future they don't appear to have anything with the capbility of an A-10. Or for that matter, a P-47.
3. They apparently never heard of indirect fire weapons, including missiles.
4. You would think a starship could get out of the way of something the size of a football stadium moving at the speed of a city bus.

But go read the RAH novel. Then you will see the film as what it is: an attempt to duplicate the Mona Lisa that ended up as a poor picture of dogs playing poker. On black velvet. Intended for use as a rug. In a cheap whorehouse. After it had been leveled by a tornado.

11/30/2007 04:22:00 PM  
Blogger NoGenius said...

I agree they don't have to be messages I believe are good, but they do need to be art, and should not be condecending. This year's group of anti-war films are certainly not art. The Cruise Reford thing is dreadful, and treats you like you are an idiot.

Stone's Platoon held alot of meaning for me, and transcended making the US the good or bad guys...but just the guys. I feel it is art.

11/30/2007 06:46:00 PM  
Blogger Alex Sloat said...

Jeyi - My understanding of the history of the Starship Troopers movie was that they were putting together a dumb action flick, someone suggested that they buy the ST license because the plots were similar enough, and they did. Then Verhoeven read a chapter or so of the book, threw it down in disgust as fascist garbage, and turned the movie into a mockery of the book. The movie makes humans out to be incompetent militarist racists with propaganda that would make North Koreans blush, whereas the book was about civic duty(and not just via serving in the military), the main character was a Filipino(revealed near the end of the book, just to screw with the heads of the prejudiced), and it actually involved things that made sense instead of some of the worst combat scenes in the history of Hollywood.

11/30/2007 09:55:00 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Worthy of mention:

Die Blechtrommel or The Tin Drum in English, is a 1978 film adaptation of the novel of the same name by Günter Grass. It was directed and co-written by Volker Schlöndorff.

The film won the Palme d'Or at the Cannes film festival and the 1979 Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film.

More about the film here:

12/02/2007 09:55:00 AM  
Blogger ddh said...

peter grynch asked

If "Godzilla" was named by the Japanese, why did they pick a name they can't pronounce?

"Godzilla" was the Americanization of the original Japanese "Gojira." The American distributor also added some footage of Raymond Burr to make the film more acceptable for American audiences.

12/02/2007 01:38:00 PM  
Blogger ddh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

12/02/2007 01:41:00 PM  
Blogger John Wright said...

"Question on Japanese cinema: If "Godzilla" was named by the Japanese, why did they pick a name they can't pronounce?"

The name of the monster in the original Japanese is "Gojira." The name Gojira is a combination of the Japanese words for gorilla (gorira) and whale (kujira).

The original Japanese film (without Raymond Burr) is actually quite grim, including (for example) scenes of children suffering radiation poisoning in an emergency hospital.

STARSHIP TROOPERS, on the other hand, is perhaps the worse movie ever made, films like PLAN NINE FROM OUTERSPACE notwithstanding. It is the worst science fiction film and the worse war film I have ever seen -- amazing that both genres at once can be some deeply insulted. From the first moment when the soldiers walk into a blind canyon without scouts, flanking columns, air support, to the scene where giant bugs fart plasma into orbit to smite crowded starships, every frame of the movie drips with contempt for brave fighting men, for heroism, for the plot logic, for the audience, and especially for an American audience. I have never seen a director that more clearly more deeply resented and hated his source material.

That famous co-ed shower scene finally changed my mind about women in combat. Any manfolk too denatured to serve alongside a young healthy woman without some romantic fraternization is not man enough to be trusted to stand between his beloved home and war's desolation.

12/03/2007 06:31:00 AM  
Blogger Marcus Aurelius said...

The Empress and I first watch Christmas Vacation last night and then put in Casablanca.

One thing that struck me about the movie was the unabashed desire for all of the refugees to go to America. Just "I want to get to America" or "We're so happy about going to America" no long lectures with qualifications or buts. Can you see that in any movie now-a-days, even pro-American movies?

12/03/2007 08:55:00 AM  

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