Charlie Rose Interviews David Kilcullen
And it's what you would call interesting. You can almost feel the sparks fly.
CHARLIE ROSE: General Petraeus, the president, everybody talks about Anbar. It's almost like they want to say, if you say to them, as I have, the political reconciliation is not taking place, as I said to you, in Baghdad -- they all want to say, but, you know, the new news is Anbar.
DAVID KILCULLEN: Anbar is .
CHARLIE ROSE: How significant is it? I mean, and how .
DAVID KILCULLEN: Well, I think Anbar is shorthand.
CHARLIE ROSE: . portable is it?
DAVID KILCULLEN: It's shorthand. Right now, the phenomenon that you are talking about is not in Anbar; it's in about 45 percent of the country. It's in Anbar; it's in Diyala; it's in Babel. It's in Baghdad. Even down in Nasiriyah with Shia tribes, we're seeing a similar kind of phenomenon.
CHARLIE ROSE: Where they are turning against al Qaeda.
DAVID KILCULLEN: Jaish al-Mahdi in the case of the Shias. But, so, there's a -- there's a much wider geographical and demographic spread to this thing than just al-Anbar. And what has happened in other parts of the country is not exactly the same as what happened in Anbar. And what happened in Baghdad was driven by local community leaders, who are often religious leaders.
CHARLIE ROSE: Right.
DAVID KILCULLEN: So, it is a -- it's different in different parts of the country, but it's a very substantial phenomenon. And it's not something that we started, it's not something we really predicted. But it's certainly making an enormous difference.
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