Monday, July 03, 2006

Shorts

  • Defenselink says the Air Force has commissioned a $450,000 data-mining project to search blogs for information that will be useful to fighting terror.
  • The BBC allowed MI5 to conduct background security checks on its personnel through much of the 1980s.
  • Felipe Calderon apparently won the Mexican election, but not convincingly.
  • Tony Blair is being criticized for trying to hold British terror suspects for 90 days without a trial.
  • Bill Roggio has a post describing the failure of the US strategy in Somalia. Ethiopia may be preemptively intervening to prevent a vacuum. France is worried. Bill has a map of terrorist training camps.
  • A Federal judge has prohibited the Navy from using a midfrequency sonar in exercises off Hawaii until it's effect on marine life can be ascertained.
  • Caroline Glick wonders whatever happened to the spirit of Yonatan Netanyahu. "'Tis but the living who are dumb".

49 Comments:

Blogger Ted said...

I only hope the Air Force data-mining project indexes The Belmont Club.

7/03/2006 05:38:00 PM  
Blogger TigerHawk said...

Re Mexico: as Al Gore, John Kerry, Jerry Ford and countless others have learned (or at least ought to have learned), close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

7/03/2006 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Disagree with Tigerhawk. Close means no mandate. Shall the Left in Mexico be more accepting of their close loss than the Left in America was with the "stolen election" of 2000?

We shall see.

=============================
OK, Somalia has Islamists!! Add them onto the List. Don't forget Rising China's military growth as our AF and Navy continue to shrink.

Sometime soon we will have to begin paying off what we borrowed to go into Iraq, a war that is already more expensive than all but the Civil War and WWII.

It's like Iran. The majority of Americans have lost trust in Bush over his tax cuts for the wealthy, crony capitalism inc. his Open Borders approach to immigration, incompetence in his appointments, failure to work with even Congressional Republicans, and of course, his postwar bungling in Iraq.

Bush will not be permitted to start a 3rd War in either Iran or Somalia. Or "surgically pre-empt" N Korea, for that matter. If an alliance of other countries takes the initiative - yes, it's possible. Or if America is hit with another truly major Muslim attack. If it is just Bush saying "trust me, I'm the Decider" - no way.

Nephew loved his Army stint and was thinking of staying, in until he was short-cycled onto his 3rd combat tour and stop-lossed. Sacrifice is asked of a very small number of Americans - who are growingly feeling played by those in power that seem determined to keep the other 97% of Americans from any sacrifice at all.

7/03/2006 08:11:00 PM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

"Bush will not be permitted...."

Cedarford

7/03/2006 08:32:00 PM  
Blogger DanMyers said...

Fellow Readers -- Pls Assess and Reply
Kos - USA
07/03/2006 20:36

The affair is too public for an ideal settlement. What say you, my fellow readers, to the following: At a summit to be held shortly, Olmert gives Abbas 500 women/children/low level bad guys for Shalit. We get Shalit back; Abbas gets some points (at the expense of Hamas), and we leave the God forsaken morass known as Gaza.


From Jerusalem Post comments.

7/03/2006 09:45:00 PM  
Blogger The Mad Fiddler said...

About four years ago Wretchard posted an essay pointing out the vulnerability to pirates and terrorists of commercial shipping in the seas and straights near the Horn of Africa. In fact, it has turned out that several attacks in that region have been recorded. Somalia has been in chaos for most of the last decade and longer, so it's not so surprising that privateers and terrorists would think of going after the traffic.

What is surprising is that the governments of nations affected by this vulnerability don't seem to have the will or presence of mind to anticipate and respond.

The tin-foil hat aspect of conspiracy theory has long steered me away from giving credence to claims that FDR knew the details of the coming attack on Pearl Harbor, or that Bush and company knew about the attack on the WTC. If they're that omniscient, I figure we're already completely in their power, and we should just knuckle under...

Here's my conspiracy theory: Because of the new terrorist threat to oil shipping the Insurance companies are going to raise rates by a BILLION per cent, and they'll own the entire solar system by August 01.

You read it here. Prepare to hock your dentures.

7/03/2006 11:54:00 PM  
Blogger Smacko said...

4th of July Post.

Excerpt from Robert A. Heinlein, April 5, 1973, lecture at the Naval Academy.

Link to fuller text

Found in the comments at Goldsteins House of Pain.

Excert:
" Today, in the United States, it is popular among self-styled "intellectuals" to sneer at patriotism. They seem to think that it is axiomatic that any civilized man is a pacifist, and they treat the military profession with contempt. "Warmongers", "Imperialists", "Hired killers in uniform", you have all heard such sneers and you will hear them again.

One of their favorite quotations is: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

What they never mention is that the man who made that sneering remark was a fat, gluttonous slob who was pursued all his life by a pathological fear of death.

I propose to prove that that baboon on watch is morally superior to that fat poltroon who made that wisecrack.

Patriotism is the most practical of all human characteristics."

7/04/2006 02:43:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

The same person said: "That man, therefore, is no patriot, who justifies the ridiculous claims of American usurpation; who endeavours to deprive [England] of its natural and lawful authority over its own colonies..."

I do believe that puts all the men we honor today as the founders of our country in a rather bad light.

7/04/2006 03:45:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

mr C4 states:

Bush will not be permitted to start a 3rd War in either Iran or Somalia. Or "surgically pre-empt" N Korea, for that matter. If an alliance of other countries takes the initiative - yes, it's possible. Or if America is hit with another truly major Muslim attack. If it is just Bush saying "trust me, I'm the Decider" - no way.

Mr Bush won't start it... and we will be hit by ANOTHER Muslim attack, it's just a matter of time





DanMyers said...
Olmert gives Abbas 500 women/children/low level bad guys for Shalit. We get Shalit back; Abbas gets some points (at the expense of Hamas), and we leave the God forsaken morass known as Gaza.

how about this... Israel sweeps in and arrests 3000 17 - 19 yr old palestinian boys on a weekly basis, and holds them in desert camps, no red cross/cresent access until all israeli captives are visited too.

Once israel captures 20,000 palestinians, then offer a trade...

Or... how about just cut off all israeli power to the gaza.....

7/04/2006 05:14:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7/04/2006 06:06:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

The Caroline Glick column illustrates the intractability of the Middle East. Today, July 4, 2006 is the 30th anniversary on the Entebbe raid where 100 Israeli hostages were freed from an airliner highjacked by Palestinian and German terrorists. During that raid Lt Col Yonatan Netanyahu was killed. But in the intervening years, his memory has been under attack by his aid, Muki Betzer who claims to have been the mastermind and the real leader of the raid.

What a typical story of the Middle East. It seems that it has always been this way in Palestine and Israel. Subterfuge, intrique, envy hatred, betrayal, despair. But the middle east is merely a microcosm.

Always has been, always will be.

7/04/2006 06:12:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Being Independence Day, wish it had rained a bit more, the forest is to dry to fire up the sparklers and rockets that glare red.

Whit mentioned, the other day, that he could not decipher Mr Patrick Buchanan's desires.

Well, Mr Buchanan has written a piece "An Independent Republic Still?" that lays out his perspective.

"... if the Founding Fathers were to come back to life and to be asked, "Whom does the America of 2006 resemble more, the republic you created or the empire from which you broke away?" is there any doubt how they would have to answer?

America today is more dependent on foreign fuel, foreign goods, foreign loans and foreign allies than she has ever been. Her worldwide commitments have never been greater, nor has her global and national debt.

Yet her leaders still seek to embed America every more deeply in global institutions from the WTO to the United Nations to the North American Union.

This is not the road on which the Founding Fathers set out, but it is a familiar road, one taken before by every empire in history.

Thoughts on Independence Day, 2006. ..."


Never would have thought that Wilsonian nation building efforts, even if strategicly viable, would be labeled "conservative".

Our attempts at "democratizing" Arabia are many things, but they cannot be described, historicly, as "conservative".
The efforts are not "paleo" or "neo" conservatism, just Radically Revolulutionary Internationalism.

Which may not be such a "bad thing"
despite Mr Buchanan's worries about the loss of US soveriegnty to the "New World Order" on Independence Day.

Or those efforts may just be the part of the long funeral procession for what the US once was, and will never be again.

7/04/2006 06:23:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The rest of Mr B's story
here at real clear politics.
For those that care to read it.

7/04/2006 06:35:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

What a typical story of the Middle East. It seems that it has always been this way in Palestine and Israel. Subterfuge, intrique, envy hatred, betrayal, despair. But the middle east is merely a microcosm.

Always has been, always will be.


except there has never been a country "Palestine"

7/04/2006 06:43:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

While, this gentleman, Robert Tracinski, believes it is the US's historical duty to expand "freedom & liberty" to Iran. Based upon the Declaration of Independce.
Almost as if the Declaration is one of War with tyranny, everywhere. Perhaps it is, or should be.
Same history, different perspectives of the lessons held there.

also at RCP
"Independence Day's Lessons for the Conflict with Iran"

7/04/2006 06:45:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

Mr. Buchanan's words are a bitter drink and I can see his point as to the "entangling alliances" but no one can turn back the hands of time. The world's fate was sealed when Mr. Fulton invented the steam engine and Mr. Darwin embarked on HMS Beagle. From those points forward our world became a smaller and more Godless place. Neitsche and Karl Marx brewed their poisons which Hitler and Stalin drank. All the while, virulent Islam lay dormant, waiting.
Buchanan has made his living off "The Death of the West" but decrying a problem isn't a solution. Our hindsight is good, it's the future we can't discern. Is isolation the answer? Is that what Buchanan wants? I keep waiting for him to show us a way out but all I hear is an increasing bitterness and lately an Arab apologist.

7/04/2006 07:09:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

No Occupation, Palestine was never a country, only a land inhabited by:

"He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."Genesis 16:12

7/04/2006 07:15:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

tigerhawk,
hydrogen bombs, as well.

Mr Calderon will have a larger "mandate" than Mr Fox.
The mandate is measured by votes in both the Chamber of Deputies and the Senate, Calderon's PAN became the largest party in both houses, which Mr Fox did not enjoy.

Though PAN will not have a majority in either chamber, it's taking over as the largest bloc, from PRI, will have provide some advantages.

Mexico's 5% growth is not nearly enough to support itself without the US escape / safety valve.
How they double that growth rate, with all their internal disparities is the real question.
Mr Obrador's proposals stood no chance of obtaining that kind of economic expansion.
Will Mr Calderon be able to move more aggresively than Mr Fox, or at least accelerate the reforms?

7/04/2006 07:35:00 AM  
Blogger trangbang68 said...

Random thoughts on Independance Day:

Flipped on XM channewl,"The 70's on 7" to hear a stirring rendition of John Lennon singing "All We are Saying is Give Peace a Chance."Give me my country back!!!!

Somalia ,in the event of Islamists wratcheting up the war effort,seems the perfect place for some serious hammer dropping.Training camps sitting in plain desert sight would be mighty fine gunnery ranges.

Pat Buchanan makes some interesting points on immigration,the loss of cultural distinctives,etc.He's sort of Michael Savage without the rancor.Some of his alliances though give me pause.Justin Raimondo for one as well the preserve the south agrarians .Living in Alabama for many years,peel away the veneer from the Stars and Bars crowd and you get some well scrubbed racists who need to let that thing go.Whether Buchanan is a fullblown anti Semite or not ,there's little doubt some of his fellows are.
Happy fourth to all patriotic Americans.Let's hope Mother Sheehan pulls off her 60 day fast.

7/04/2006 07:45:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7/04/2006 08:01:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

There is little doubt, in my mind at least, that the Declaration is the most radical political document of modern times.

Mr Washington had nothing to do with it. His signature, not upon it.

Mr Jefferson, the author, thought that limited Federal government was the best government, but by his own action, with little Congressional authority, he almost doubled the size of the Nation, in one deal, without a War.
Only "Steward's Folly" and the Gadsden Purchase come close as an expansionist moments, and both pale in comparison.

Now that there is little territorial espansion available, where & how else do we spread the Revolution?

Or should we even try, that is what the debate should be about, in Iraq.

Mr Bush does not define it that way, letting Mr Kerry and Murtha and the like carry the "liberal" advantage.
Mr Bush should speak in terms of Progress and Revolution, spin the whole process the "right" way.

I'd match Mr Jefferson against Mr Mohammedan, in the battle for "Hearts and Minds". The US Government just does not believe in it's own foundations, enough to build on them elsewhere.

Mr Jefferson spoke of the power of the individual, not the bloc. We have just institutionalized the inequities of the Iraqi culture, with the US approved structure of their "bloc" system of representative government.

I think Mr B's perspective of history is a tad off center, myself. He sees the same events and draws much different conclusions than I do.

7/04/2006 08:16:00 AM  
Blogger bobalharb said...

4th of July. Jefferson was really ticked off about Marbury v. Madison. Right from the git go, right out of the box--makings of the activist court. Congress could still rein it in, but doesn't have the courage.

7/04/2006 08:27:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

whit said...
No Occupation, Palestine was never a country, only a land inhabited by:

"He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."Genesis 16:12

actually these jackasses come from the womb of hagar, that's egypt and they used to live in arabia.... they have no business in any place cept arabia...

7/04/2006 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

"Now that there is little territorial espansion available, where & how else do we spread the Revolution?"

There are more fundamental questions involved.

Is it the duty, the responsibility, of US citizens to spread the Revolution - to fight and die and otherwise pay for it? Is it possible to rediscover limited, republican government at home while expanding the extravagant obligations, the bloody sacrifices, of US citizens abroad?

I once thought that global altruism was the hook with which ambivalent liberals were brought into a controversial war. But it is so-called conservatives who are hooked and who will defend, to their dying days, an ostensibly noble and necessary idea that was simply poorly led and executed - or simply betrayed.

Who says the contemporary Right and Left have nothing in common?

7/04/2006 09:21:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Here is an article about the "real" founders of the US, as a nation.
The folk that wrote the school books and periodicals of the post Revolution era.

"... In the post-Revolutionary era, Americans were bombarded with material such men produced: biographies and pamphlets, almanacs and schoolbooks, broadsides, prints and images, works that circulated in the hundreds of thousands of copies, sometimes in the millions, published year after year, read aloud in schools and at homes and on patriotic occasions, carrying messages to audiences in the towns and distant hinterlands of the young nation.

Eventually, these texts would persuade a fractious, rebellious, polyglot people to unite in adulation of the nation's founding fathers and to celebrate its most important documents as nothing less than sacred scripture. ..."


In any case, if we want to win the "Hearts & Minds" of this, as well as the following generations of Iraqis, we should be inundating their country with the "storyline" of individual freedom & responsibilities that accompany liberty.

But we no longer belive that should promote or "celebrate its most important documents as nothing less than sacred scripture."

Even though the article was printed in the NYTimes, that is not enough to invalidate the premise.

Especially for those that believe the MSM is the source of most things bad, today.

Our ideology better serves mankind, but we do no longer, as a country, promote it or believe it. Even for ourselves.

7/04/2006 09:30:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

Here is a excellent post on America’s brush with the criminal thugs and pirates of the mid-east.
The Barabary Pirates offer a lesson in appeasement which is especially relevant given the Palestinians current attempt to extort Israel.

7/04/2006 09:34:00 AM  
Blogger Smacko said...

Trish,

"ostensibly noble and necessary idea"

ostensibly:
Apparently, but not necessarily truly, for the reason claimed


Are you applying 'ostensibly' to the noble part? Or the necessay?

:)

7/04/2006 10:43:00 AM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

OT:

Congrat to the "Palestinians"

...Kassam rocket lands inside Ashkelon for first time
By JPOST.COM STAFF
Despite ongoing IDF operations in the northern Gaza Strip, a Kassam rocket landed Tuesday evening in Ashkelon proper - the first time the city center has witnessed such an attack.....

Excellent Job Palestinians! I guess stepping up the rocket attacks on Israel will cause the Israelis to run away...

Or maybe, it will be the excuse Israel needs to kick the crap out of you....

7/04/2006 10:46:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

Re: The BBC and MI5 story. An ironic twist: Now the BBC is reporting that al-Qaeda has been trying to infiltrate MI5.

What is Occupation: re: Israel kicking the crap out of the Palestinians. One can only hope but don't get your hopes up too high.
Lately, like Caroline Glick, I have begun to wonder if Israel is too tired of the fighting to do what it takes.

7/04/2006 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Hello Belmonters, I hope I don't offend by wishing you all Happy Independence on this Fourth of July.

I know this is not the place to ask the question, but to all those who decry the costs of the GWoT, I must ask: What's the alternative? Didn't we try the 'treat it as a criminal matter and get the UN involved' approach in the 90's? Where'd that get us?

Didn't the Israelis try long and hard with the negotiations and withdrawals and eventually, in a final act of desperation, build a wall to keep the suiciders away?

As for Somalia, as others have said, it's a free fire zone and has been for years. Let the press go and document our crimes, if they dare. This whole idea that Somalia is a "failure of American policy" is absurd - it's the same as thinking we are God. And though God may notice every sparrow that falls, he sure as hell doesn't catch each one on the way down.

7/04/2006 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

Whit: re: Israel kicking the crap out of the Palestinians. One can only hope but don't get your hopes up too high.



Israel is showing restraint, something the palestinians just dont understand, they actually think they are winning and israel has thrown everything they have at them. It might just take more jewish blood to provoke an ass kicking, but the good news is that the "palestinians" are losing more and more support on a daily basis from the world.

It's only a matter of time that the legal government of Palestine / hamas shoots a rocket that causes some serious damage, the the LEGAL government of Palestine will get a REAL ass kicking. And no one in the world will give a crap...

if you havent noticed the LACK of KIA's caused by Israel's show invasion, there is a interesting point that Israel hits most targets at 1:43 AM when they are empty, up to now.... Olmert has been like the older guy holding BACK the head of a crazy child that will not calm down, the palestinians are blood lust thirsty, they want to kill or be killed, israel is holding them back from the point of no return...

whether Israel does this now or not, the palestinians want real war, and in the end, they will get it...

7/04/2006 12:41:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Saw Dennis Ross on FNC the other day and he said that Hamas has to decide what it was: a movement, a political party, a country, and army, etc.

It occurred to me that we are seeing a whole lot of this. The Democratic Party in the U.S., the U.N., and all sorts of people are not just trying to figure out what they believe and what they want but even what they are - and even if they need to decide any of that or just follow a principle of standing in opposition to anything the "other side" wants.

In contrast, the Republican Party in the U.S. may not be be doing "Dress Right, Dress" in perfect order, but at least to seem to pretty much know what they are.

It is not the Haves versus the Have Nots any more - it is rather the "Know and Dos" versus the "Whazzat....huh's?"

As to the USAF data mining, in my time in that Service I noted a troubling tendancy to contaminate brillance - or even mere demonstrated competance - with a wide array of opinions in order to get "buy in" for as many people as possible. In one case the Air University used a simply thrilling open-sourced approach to defining a new space launch concept and ended up with an idea that was pure owl excrement - one that was desigend to look good and look right but which made no sense. I hope the data mining is really intended to identify and enhance good ideas and not ruin them.

7/04/2006 01:27:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

I don't doubt a large attack would get the US and other nations back on track. 9/11 is properly receeding in history. The adulation of victim families and the hero-worship of any government employee in uniform properly diminishing.

The War Against the Enemy We Dare Not Name is now longer than the USA was in WWII. The flags of 2001 and 2002 are largely gone from display, the yellow ribbons absent or faded. The silly POW/MIA flag simply marks the absence of any real POWs or real MIAs over the last 30 years except for brief moments in the Gulf and Iraq war.

Slowly, a better understanding is emerging. It is an ideological struggle against radical Islam and perhaps all of Islam, not a struggle against the Tactic of Terrorism employed by a few "evildoers". Taking out a few "head evildoers" matters little, because the foe is netcentric, globally diffused, motivated to fight to the death, and talent-deep.

"Getting" Saddam, KSM, Zarqawi was a good thing, but not the definitive "ending" Americans brought up on Hollywood tales of final victory being achieved when "Mr. Evil" is brought to justice. In recognition of this, the "value" of Bin Laden as a target has sharply diminished in policy circles, but not yet the public. The CIA recently disbanded their Bin Laden unit in recognition that some other Islamoid just replaces Binnie if we get him.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202035,00.html

Just as we are realizing that kneejerk support of Eretz Israel Zionism had a big downside, the Euros are finally realizing their equally unqualified support of Palestinian Freedom fighters only enabled the disaster that is Hamas, the Cult of Death.

More lessons learned await.

Unfortunately for us, the only way to get past the Leftist "enemy rights" roadblocks is to suffer more lessons written in our blood.

*War is Ideological, from deep religious beliefs held on one side.
*Cannot be defeated by "magificent soldiers" or "Hero 1st Responders". They are a very small parts of the overall struggle.
*Peoples minds and what they are taught are more important than any "high tech solution".
*Struggle depends on a vision and articulateness lacking in our current President. There will be no simultaneous 3rd war in Somalia, Syria, or Iran unless other nations want it or we are attacked.
*Both sides suffer from a Cult of Victimhood and misplaced emphasis on "rights".

7/04/2006 01:39:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

RWE notes: It is not the Haves versus the Have Nots any more - it is rather the "Know and Dos" versus the "Whazzat....huh's?".

YOu mean the "Know the meaning of is" v. "is could mean anything" parties.

7/04/2006 03:12:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Ted said: I only hope the Air Force data-mining project indexes The Belmont Club.

Makes me wonder what the USAF could find here. Surely they would already access the primary sources Belmonteers cite, like Aviation Week. While I love the patrons here, I don't imagine any of us are out-thinking the USAF in tactics or aircraft design (hope I'm not offending).

So, what could they learn here? They could perceive trends here, connections that suddenly become hot - because of the constellation of sources that happen to focus out of a specific event.

But it would only be good for one specific trend, and only during that trend as it happens, like a volcano warning of a couple of days maybe, for some specific event or powerful topic in the media. What good is that to the USAF?

The term "data-mining" is antique, that's why we use it. "Mining" suggests you are digging out seams, nuggets, out of an unmoving mountain. The new version is 'connecting the dots', in a moving ocean of data, and whatever maps it makes change as often as the weather, constantly.

Maybe it's just me, but "mining" is just so 3-D, when we live in the now, in 4-D. This "connect-the-dots" idea was all the rage back in the old days, just after 9/11.

7/04/2006 03:43:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

In another “Short” item, the N Koreans appear to have finally fired their 2nd Taepodong missile. Apparently it failed at T+40 sec. It will be interesting to see if they claim this as another “space launch” as they did with the first one in 1998. Back then, they even claimed that the payload made orbit, but no one else ever saw it.

I suspect that they will claim it as a space launch. The fact that they launched it in such close proximity to STS-121 tends to confirm the idea. And I very much doubt that they give avoidance of "manned or manable objects" during laucnhes the kind of consideration we do.

The S. Koreans are planning their own space launch. They stipulated that their purchase of a couple of Delta launches back in the 90’s include both hardware manufactured by them and an instruction course on how to launch a Delta. They also have since come to the U.S. and purchased additional instruction on launches; in fact, I helped with it.

The North Korean “space “ launches are a rather transparent means of cover for missile development, and also are a way of one-upping the South in advance. If South Korea does launch a satellite one day, the North can claim they had done it years before.

Questions are: how are is North doing with the non-space launch aspects of building ICBMs: Re-entry vehicles (easy to do but hard to do and keep them light), fuses, and lightweight nukes. Also, will the South Koreans be content to build space launchers – if they do at all – or will they make them into missiles as well?

7/04/2006 04:18:00 PM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

c4: Just as we are realizing that kneejerk support of Eretz Israel Zionism had a big downside,

interesting, no american administration ever supported "eretz israel"

Bush One was down right hostile to Israel

Bush Two supports a "Palestinian" state, no other american prez ever supported than before.

America only has kneejerk reaction to the Arabs wishing to murder every israeli man women and child.

From with holding loan guarantees (bush 1)
to selling the Saudi's AWAC

From Forgiving Egypt 11 BILLION in loans (on top of the dollar for dollar we give the israelis) to sit out of our way in Gulf War 1

To Spending more money on 1 year in iraq than all 50 yrs of aid to Israel COMBINED america is hardly "kneejerk"..

If it was why hasnt the Bush admin MOVED THE EMBASSY TO JERUSALEM?

Moving our embassy to JERUSALEM does NOT IN ANY way shape or form prohibit SOMEDAY an embassy in EAST JERUSALEM for those "palestinians" partners for so called peace...

Nope in fact, America in fact supported those NON-productive palestinians to the tune of hundreds of millions a year, not to mention arranging for greenhouses (that USED to PRODUCE 380 million a year)

American Administrations going back to 1956 have made the Israelis return land (the SINAI) for peace. And we all know how good that was, since in 1973 Egypt attacked and LOST it again, only to be returned (camp david) to Egypt, hardly KNEE JERK support of "eretz israel"

Then this: On June 19, 1967, the National Unity Government [of Israel] voted unanimously to return the Sinai to Egypt and the Golan Heights to Syria in return for peace agreements. The Golans would have to be demilitarized and special arrangement would be negotiated for the Straits of Tiran. The government also resolved to open negotiations with King Hussein of Jordan regarding the Eastern border.

but the famous Khartoum Arab Summit choose the famous 3 nos... "no peace, no recognition and no negotiation with Israel."

so c4, your idea about america or actually israeli wanting of "eretz israel" is at best specious, or at worst highly ignorant or bigoted

7/04/2006 04:23:00 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Did the US Space Shuttle shoot down the NorK Taepodong?

7/04/2006 04:33:00 PM  
Blogger What is "Occupation" said...

Tony said...
Did the US Space Shuttle shoot down the NorK Taepodong?

no the JOOOS did....

7/04/2006 04:58:00 PM  
Blogger Ikez said...

Data mining........
OOOO Sounds like another evil plot like that SWIFT program.

Back to seriousness, a similar program reportedly identified Atta, why not do it again?

7/04/2006 05:24:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

"Getting" Saddam, KSM, Zarqawi was a good thing, but not the definitive "ending" Americans brought up on Hollywood tales of final victory being achieved when "Mr. Evil" is brought to justice. In recognition of this, the "value" of Bin Laden as a target has sharply diminished in policy circles, but not yet the public. The CIA recently disbanded their Bin Laden unit in recognition that some other Islamoid just replaces Binnie if we get him.

- cedarford

Oh, brother.

The best lesson we can ever hand over in this war is simply this: You can't run. You can't hide.

It's a simple and effective one.

God bless the hunter-killers.

7/04/2006 05:27:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

Wherever they are tonight.

7/04/2006 05:31:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Trish - The best lesson we can ever hand over in this war is simply this: You can't run. You can't hide. It's a simple and effective one.

Only if you state it as a fact you can't run and hide and you are right in the bargain. Binnie proved you can run and hide for a good long time. Even in the USA, half of stranger-on-stranger murders are never solved. Running and hiding has always been an effective tactic.

Making a war on an ideology an Ahab-like quest for The One Big Evildoer was beyond stupid. Fortunately, we are learning. Slowly. Now we should consider lowering Binnies reward to an amount lower than Ayman al-Zawahiri's - just to tick him off.

God bless the hunter-killers.

They haven't been very effective in a land they don't understand, trying to interact with a people of similar religious and political leanings to Binnie. Fortunately our Binnie "hunter-killers" are on the taxpayer tab for the hundreds of millions they have squandered in their futile search for the White Whale. If they were paid based on their hunting and killing abilities, they would have starved long ago.
----------------------

What is occupation? - Nice try saying that the paltry 130-150 billion or so in Israel welfare provided by the US taxpayer is nothing compared to what the US spends on other unrelated ME projects like Iraq. For all your Zionist duplicity, you forget that most people now believe that the US was snookered into War with Iraq by pro-Israel neocons. Meaning the Iraq war is just more milk and honey given by America for our "specialist, bestest friend" padding the hallways of Congress with bags of money. Even the aid to Egypt is known by more and more to be just that which Egypt was smart enough to tie as quid pro quo after Camp David to "balance" Israel's aid. The balance of Egypt aid is basically a peace bribe NOT to attack Israel - their welfare check being 2/3rds the value of Welfare Queen Israel's.

7/04/2006 07:17:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

Tell me something, Cedarford.

How long did it take the Israelis to hunt down the Munich gang? And how much did it cost?

7/04/2006 09:21:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

If we are going to spend time, if we are going to spend effort, if we are going to spend money, let these have their proper object.

7/04/2006 09:32:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

And do not give me any shit, Cedarford, about it not mattering.

Regardless of which side you're speaking for, it's a load of crap.

7/04/2006 09:51:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Trish - (On getting bin Laden as our Main Objective in the War on * [whatever Bush is calling it this week]) - If we are going to spend time, if we are going to spend effort, if we are going to spend money, let these have their proper object. And do not give me any shit, Cedarford, about it not mattering. Regardless of which side you're speaking for, it's a load of crap.

Most people have moved past "James Bond, Mr. Evil is the Key to it All" 9/12/01 thinking.

But you are like a Pavlovian trained rat. Bang your head on the lever, a rat food pellet issues forth, and you get habituated. And when the rat pellets cease, the rat still bangs her head.....By now it is obvious that Al Qaeda is but one of 80 largely unconnected Islamist organizations operating globally, and they have a pool of talent ready to replace lost members or leaders.

Binnie made a convenient short-term villain the media could focus on.

In truth, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the originator of the 9/11 concept, and BInnie was his boss that thought it was a great idea and gave CEO backing to the noble infidel-smiting project. KSM ran the show. Binnie did 3 things. Released funds to KSM, issued his blessing, and as promised, provided last minute Saudi muscle instead of the Indonesians and Malayans KSM had on tap.

But no one is demanding KSM, the true 9/11 mastermind, be given his 100 eager ACLU lawyers and "brought to justice".

For now, pretending Binnie matters more than anything is convenient for Bush and the Democrats.

The foe is an ideology that is supported by hundreds of millions globally. The foe is not one man.
==========================
Trish - Tell me something, Cedarford. How long did it take the Israelis to hunt down the Munich gang? And how much did it cost?

Who really cares? The strategy was wrong because it sought to criminalize and punish just the tip of the Jihadi spear - a few select evildoers, rather than confront the real issue of Palestinian nationalism and Israel's expansion dreams. All the Munich retaliation did was give the Israelis another 2 major wars and 2 Intifadas costing the Zionists another 11,000 dead by war or terror. All because they preferred to ignore the larger issues and get consumed with land-grabbing and colonization dreams. Whacking a few triggermen had no effect on the determination of the Palestinians to resist.

7/05/2006 12:20:00 AM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

If we get Binnie, well and good. I approve of a little gratuitous vengence, be it Osama or some other head-chopper we whack.

But don't think such vengence has any measurable effect in a clash of ideologies and systems. If it went the other way, and a Jihadi "gets" Mazimum War Leader Bush, the only effect Bush's "loss" would have is someone else as good or likely, better, taking over.

7/05/2006 12:26:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Yeah, we'd have Mr Cheney in the saffle, through '12 or 'til his ticker quit.

Meanwhuile that leftist cabal rouser, Max Boot echoes my feelings in regards our tacticlt situation in Iraq.

"... Most of our resources aren't going to fight terrorists but to maintain a smattering of mini-Americas in the Middle East. As one Special Forces officer pungently put it to me: "The only function that thousands of people are performing out here is to turn food into [excrement]."

How to explain this seemingly counterproductive behavior? My theory is that any organization prefers to focus on what it does well. In the case of the Pentagon, that's logistics. Our ability to move supplies is unparalleled in military history. Fighting guerrillas, on the other hand, has never been a mission that has found much favor with the armed forces. So logistics trumps strategy. Which may help explain why we're not having greater success in Iraq and Afghanistan. ..."


But since he published in in the LA Times some of you will discount it., Ah well, the truth remains
"Our enemies aren't drinking lattes"

7/05/2006 06:28:00 AM  

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