Tuesday, March 07, 2006

Center of gravity

Secretary Rumsfeld's press conference should be read in its entirety because news accounts based on it have selectively emphasized items which fit the media outlet's particular editorial template. The first part of the news conference is actually an indirect name-calling session between Rumsfeld and members of the press.

SEC. RUMSFELD: Charlie.

Q Mr. Secretary, I'd like to clear up exactly what you're saying here. Are you saying that this poll and that what you call the rush toward declaring civil war in Iraq, is that the result of intentional misreporting of the situation there?

SEC. RUMSFELD: Oh, I can't go into people's minds. All I'm doing is reporting on what we've seen. General Casey pointed out to this group here that he believes -- his data shows that the numbers of mosque attacks and the nature of the attacks and the severity of the attacks have been considerably exaggerated and that the number of civilian Iraqis that have been killed or wounded has been exaggerated.

And -- now, why someone or whoever did this, I have no way to judge. I'm not going to judge them. It's just a fact that he is saying that, and I believe he's correct.

Q But you said, Sir, that -- I believe that the reporting was virtually one-sided. Does that mean --

SEC. RUMSFELD: Yeah, the interesting thing about it is they all seem to be of a kind. All the things that have later been corrected or need to be corrected or that he believes were exaggerated all seem to be on one side of the equation. We don't see the similar thing on the other side, which you normally would get in some kind of a random spread, one would think.

Q Well, do you believe that the media's been duped by the situation or doesn't understand it or what?

SEC. RUMSFELD: All I'm doing is reporting. I'm just reporting the facts. (Laughter.) The facts are as I've stated them.

Q Mr. Secretary?

SEC. RUMSFELD: You'll have to draw your own conclusions about it.

Then it gets more adversarial. One correspondent asks whether the 'rush to declare a civil war' is part of a disinformation campaign. Here's Secretary Rumsfeld's response.

Q And when you say one side, is that the Western press? Is that Al-Jazeera and comparable press? Do you feel it's a campaign of disinformation here that's taking place? Are you planning to counter that campaign even more than you are now?

SEC. RUMSFELD: Well, we're obviously not successful at all if we're trying to counter it. We -- because -- (chuckles) -- that would be like trying to stop the tide. It's not possible.

The -- we do know, of course, that al Qaeda has media committees. We do know that they teach people exactly how to try to manipulate the media. They do this regularly. We see the intelligence that reports on their meetings and -- now, I can't take a string and tie it to a news report and then trace it back to an al Qaeda media committee meeting.

I'm not able to do that at all. We do know that their goal is to try to break the will -- that they consider the center of gravity of this not to be in Iraq -- because they know they can't win a battle out there -- they consider it to be in Washington, D.C., and in London, in the capitals of the Western world.

Commentary

A number of other issues were also discussed in this poisonous tone, among them:

  • Iran's deployment of special forces (al-Quds) into Iran;
  • Iranian-supplied shaped charges sent into Iraq expressly to penetrate American armor;
  • a long wrangle over whether Rumsfeld is carrying out his 'promise' to bring back American troops from Iraq.

These are important issues in themselves, but I think they are best understood in the context of the disinformation campaigns which Secretary Rumsfeld talked about, because enemy military action in the field has always been keyed to support themes being promoted in the press. It's a good bet that the presence of special shaped charges and Iranian special forces in Iraq will eventually support a news campaign. Here's my guess as to how it is meant to work out.

The 'Iraq is in a state of civil war' lead will continue to be emphasized but attacks may suddenly shift to American troops after a long period of being concentrated upon sectarian targets to create another theme: a Shi'ite insurgency. This plus a clamor to 'bring the boys home' may create a triple wave designed to entirely collapse public support for Operation Iraqi Freedom. The enemy may have failed to win the Sunni insurgency; been unable to plunge Iraq into civil war; proved incapable of stopping the formation of a new Iraqi army and state. But none of that will matter if the three themes of 'ongoing civil war', a Shi'ite insurgency and the need to engage in headlong retreat are successfully promoted in "the capitals of the Western world".

168 Comments:

Blogger NooYawkah said...

Has anyone anywhere published details of these AQ media committees? If some of the plans and tactics were exposed, their effect would be reduced.

Or is Western media so biased as to be willingly duped by these tactics?

3/07/2006 03:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Will a Bump Here be a "Massive Bloodletting" in the MSM?
- Courtesy, Red River

3/07/2006 04:16:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Or is Western media so biased as to be willingly duped by these tactics? "
---
Rarely Duped.
Always Encouraged.

3/07/2006 04:18:00 PM  
Blogger johnCV said...

At what point is it OK to challenge thier patriotism?

Big Media has no apparent interest in truth, only in promulgating thier leftist agenda. However, they will be in a very awkward position if they are successful. If a democrat wins the WH in 08, they will certainly have gotten there by being at least credible on national defense. What then? The muslim threat will be an ever increasing force (emboldened by the conservative defeat), the dems will have alienated any friendly arab gov'ts by thier Dubai Ports screeching, and they will not have the support of the conservative portion of the country after years of verbal abuse (the protion which incidentally supplies the patriots for our armed forces).
How will the press cover this without GWB/Rumsfeld/Rice to blame it on?
Let's pray we never find out.

3/07/2006 04:36:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Please note that the Tet Offensive was supposed to be the END of a civil war - in which a mass uprising would force the hated Americans and their local stooges into the sea. Instead the South Vietnamese people declined the invitation and the Viet Cong essentially were wiped out.

And it was presented as an American Defeat. Same playbook.

But in the case of Tet, the surviving Viet Cong eventually realized that the real objective was to wipe out the Cong so that the NVA could take over with no local opposition.

Could this be happening here, too? Per the "By the Sword" piece, Al Queda and its state supporters may have realized that it is about to have the problem of thousands of P.O.ed and unemployed terrorists who might realize they were hung out to dry. Better get rid of them, quick....

3/07/2006 04:41:00 PM  
Blogger 49erDweet said...

The MSM seems physically unable to veer away from various pre-conceived ideas that haunt their psyches when the actual truth jumps up and points things another way. They have to press on toward their "collective" (and I use that word deliberately) goal, and either ignore or explain away facts to the contrary.

For years they have not considered themselves to be, nor performed the function of, 'reporters of facts', but instead have assumed the mantle and role of acting as 'self-righteous critics'. If only they were capable of critical thinking. Sadly, because of the circumstances of their educations, they are not.

3/07/2006 04:49:00 PM  
Blogger Senescent Wasp said...

I read the entire transcript, knowing that steam would be coming out my ears by the end. It was.

I'm really waiting for the first slap down case involving illegal leaking of classified information. They'll be issuing slickers and rain hats at the door for spittle protection at new conferences in DC.

Next, I'll be waiting for somebody to dust off Yates v. United States, the conspiracy statutes and the Smith Act and getting seriously into sedition prosecutions. I'll make a lot of popcorn for the Moonbat Street Theatre that ensues.

Oh, well I can dream can't I. When are we gonna get some politicians who are members of Chordata. You know some with actual spines.

3/07/2006 04:52:00 PM  
Blogger Tom Grey said...

I really wish Rummy would take the bull by the horns and say:
"Yes, the evidence is that the US Mass Media is deliberately making mistakes in its reports.
The media is deliberately trying to make Americans believe we are losing, when the facts support the belief that we are winning.
This means the media is helping the terrorists.

The NYT is not a "messenger" of truth to be "shot" -- it is a spy, whose goal is to make Pres. Bush lose, even if means more Americans die."

3/07/2006 04:56:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Mainstream journalism is a guild, membership by invitation, invitation based on adherence to, and talent at the advancing of, the Tranzi philosophy. This is all well and good, except that the guild has built up a trememdous access to the public. Otherwise, no problemo, we just have to keep hammering away at 'em and in a thousand years or so, CBS will hire a conservative.

3/07/2006 05:08:00 PM  
Blogger cjr said...

You can watch the interview on line over at the Pentagon channel:

http://pentagonchannel.feedroom.com/iframeset.jsp?ord=301650

On the upper left side, click on "Briefings/Addresses". Then click on "07 March 2006, Rumsfeld and Pace"

3/07/2006 05:11:00 PM  
Blogger whit said...

I read the entire presser transcript and I did not sense extraordinary hostility in the questions. Maybe that comes across on video.

I've noticed accounts in European media that the Baghdad Morgue reported that they had taken in 1300+ sinse the shrine bombing.

It will be hard for the media to sustain a disinformation campaign with a claim that a civil war is in progress. Much easier to say Iraq is at the abyss.

Bush's popularity numbers are down at the moment but that in itself is not unusual for a President in his sixth year. So far, there seems to be no support for immediate withdrawal. Support for the GWOT seems to be holding, in fact, one way to look at the cartoon intifada and the UAE Ports World deal is that Americans are increasingly impatient with the fundamentalist nonsense.

The media will have a long row to hoe if it wishes to derail the GWOT.

3/07/2006 05:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Senescent Wasp thinks it is being governed by the PseudoChordata!
---
Evidence being the total lack of meaningful prosecution of fifth column Traitors.

3/07/2006 05:24:00 PM  
Blogger USMC_Vet said...

Bingo. None of that will matter indeed.

Well said, Wretchard.

Steve
ThreatsWatch

3/07/2006 05:25:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

I am somewhat disappointed with Secretary Rumsfeld's response to the subject of the disinformation campaign he himself brings up: "that would be like trying to stop the tide. It's not possible." because that suggests he has no means to counter efforts to shape opinion in the Capitals of the Western world. This is the second time he speaks at length on information warfare. The last time out he described the enemy as winning the information war. Here he speaks of it again. But what to do about it?

3/07/2006 05:26:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Write to the editors and cc the advertisers--or vice-versa--of the offenders. Set a goal of being the truth squad--and hit otr miss is better than nothing--for one reporter, or one advertiser, or one desk at a media organization. Go from there. Do email, but go to snail mail and/or fax every so often--as often as you can, and keep up that pace for all of 2006. Then go from there. Try to get two other people that you know to do the same. Go from there.

3/07/2006 05:45:00 PM  
Blogger Rick Ballard said...

Why in the world do we give weight to a dead press propagating the myth of its strength through reliance upon self generated polls which carry absolutely no weight?

Quick, name the last action taken by the legislature or the executive on the basis of polling.

Times up.

Rumsfelds, "oh well" needs to be read slightly differently. How about "oh, well, screw 'em, they're on t'other side anyway."

I abhor giving weight to a dead institution that was pronounced dead when it couldn't delive Kerry to his inauguration. Wasting time on "how do we get the MSM to report a truthful message" is just that - a waste of time.

It has come to the point where they aren't even worth laughing at - unless you'd laugh at a kid stumbling while exiting the short bus. Some will get nailed on the NSA leak, and good for the DoJ when they do it. But they're flogging a horse that's deader than a door nail and pretending that it's alive will not make it so.

3/07/2006 05:47:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Sec. Rumsfeld can't stop the tide, true. But choose he certainly can which wave to surf, and which baby seal(s) to employ as chum.

3/07/2006 05:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Rick 5:47 PM,
It's the WAY that Mat stumbles out that makes it irresistable.
Sorry.

3/07/2006 05:53:00 PM  
Blogger USMC_Vet said...

Wretchard-

I think teh Secretary's continuing pessimism on the Information War is best summed up as exaspiration.

Exaspiration because, though al-Qaeda does indeed have media committees, long so has the Pentagon had them. We call them PAO's, as you know all too well. His exaspiration comes from the simple fact that the media, long nearly sole arbitors of information flow and still dominant managers thereof (save for the occasional 'storm'), finds the information put forth (in both word and deed) by the [enter terrorist/enemy group here] 'media committees' more compelling than that of their own nation's military. They seem to find US Military PAO's as propaganda outlets and enemy 'media committees' as more reliable...or at least more compelling.

It's like climbing a greased pole, begging to defy gravity. It's about gaining their trust. But Rumsfeld's frustration is set mainly in the fact that, no matter how correct he or the PAO's may be, or how outlandish the enemy claims (recall the energy with which the fictional November 'Insurgent Over-running of Ramadi' was reported), his own media simply does not want to trust him/them.

If they do not want to trust him, facts don't matter. That unravels an intensely logical man like Don Rumsfeld, IMO.

What to do? Plod onward in spite of it all, I suppose.

You can lead a horse to water...

3/07/2006 05:55:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Welcome, Mat--be sure and wipe your feet--

3/07/2006 05:56:00 PM  
Blogger Mrs. Davis said...

This is the second time he speaks at length on information warfare. The last time out he described the enemy as winning the information war.

I've got to believe that when he makes these types of comments they have been thought out, if not scripted. Rummy does not seem like the type to just wing these statements.

He is casting himself in the role of severly disadvantaged underdog in the match-up with the monolithic media. Rummy cannot get into a direct pissing contest with the media as they control what gets on the air and he is sure to lose.

He is as good as calling the people he's talking to traitors to their faces and for the record. But this is not ending up as a replay of Viet Nam. Politicians are not the only ones who think about their legacy. Rummy is trying to get the front lines of the media to look in the mirror and consider how history will see them when the record is re-read.

3/07/2006 05:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"That unravels an intensely logical man like Don Rumsfeld, IMO"
---
Job 2

3/07/2006 06:03:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

The opposition sometimes doesn't bother to hide the disinformation. This from the Sunday Telegraph:

The man who for two years led Iran's nuclear negotiations has laid out in unprecedented detail how the regime took advantage of talks with Britain, France and Germany to forge ahead with its secret atomic programme. In a speech to a closed meeting of leading Islamic clerics and academics, Hassan Rowhani, who headed talks with the so-called EU3 until last year, revealed how Teheran played for time and tried to dupe the West ... ‘From the outset, the Americans kept telling the Europeans, “The Iranians are lying and deceiving you and they have not told you everything.” The Europeans used to respond, “We trust them,”’ he said.

Part of the power of the Big Lie strategy is you eventually become too tired to answer back. And then they have the field.

3/07/2006 06:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Rummy is trying to get the front lines of the media to look in the mirror and consider how history will see them when the record is re-read."
---
I hope you are right, but that seems like Jon Stewart trying to get the Hollywood Hairs to laugh at themselves.

3/07/2006 06:06:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

...but it might work for the American Public.

3/07/2006 06:06:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

These were the days. Irony, schmirony. (Pics)

3/07/2006 06:08:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Bud, 5:56 PM
Heheh. Just let it slide. :)

3/07/2006 06:20:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Wretchard, "Part of the power of the Big Lie strategy is you eventually become too tired to answer back. And then they have the field."

Why do we get tired before they do? What's the mechanism, where's the flaw?

Is it the predator/prey difference, where predators have to be more energetic than prey, or die?

3/07/2006 06:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

It's easier to play agressive offense than to guard against it.

3/07/2006 06:28:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

A Rabbit can just hide,
...and wait.

3/07/2006 06:30:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Finally,
It's easier to be pessimistic than optimistic.
All you have to do is give up.

3/07/2006 06:32:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Larsen 6:08 PM,
Someone listed a bunch of Jimmy Stewart/Ted Williams clones in WWII.
It went on for quite some time.

3/07/2006 06:36:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Re accusation of impugning (someone's) patriotism, a good reponse is, "No, the problem is, you're getting people killed."

3/07/2006 06:38:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Buddy,

The best propaganda consists in creating a justification for our indispensible illusions until we dare not give the Lie up. It would be hard for a Cindy Sheehan to continue another day if she once acknowledged parrotting a lie.

Conservatives believe in persuasion. But every agitator's knows that not persuasion but "committment" is really imporant. Committment comes when someone decides to live on the basis of the Lie. In every leftist community the moment of "committment" is the hour of second birth. From then on his continued psychological existence depends upon the Lie, which of course, is never a Lie, however false it may subsequently prove.

3/07/2006 06:39:00 PM  
Blogger Starling David Hunter said...

Wretchard said: "I am somewhat disappointed with Secretary Rumsfeld's response to the subject of the disinformation campaign he himself brings up: "that would be like trying to stop the tide. The last time out he described the enemy as winning the information war. Here he speaks of it again. But what to do about it?"

One thing that can't be done is to openly court bloggers the way Wal-Mart has done. See yesterday's NY Times article entitled Wal-Mart enlists bloggers in PR campaign

What can be done is that individuals can form loose-knit, issue-centric "citizen information militias" as I think I termed it in the comments of a previous thread.

Each CIM would be organized around 1-2 major and a handful of minor issues.

Each CIM would be formed of at least two major departments or functional areas- research and retail and possibly and third operations.

The Research department would work on information gathering and analysis.

The Retail department's basic responsibility would be to identify channels through which, the means by which, and the audience to whom the CIM's messages could delivered. They might also cultivate feeders who could send useful leads to them and/or the research group.

If there is an "Operations" group it's job would be to maintain the critical infrastructure (websites, blog, etc) and to provide technical support and evaluate the cost and feasibility of adopting software applications, adding features (e.g. podcasting, video).

In the CIM's early stages the Operations function could be subordinate to "Retail".

At the top of the food chain would be a farily small cadre of writers whose primary responsibility is to craft compelling content.

If that group has a leader, it would also be his or her job to set the broad agenda for the CIM, in consultation with the other team members, as well as to look for opportunies to collaborate with other CIMs on projects of mutual interest.

The smallest number of people required for a CIM to be effective would probably be 5-6 excluding the occasional feeder. While the structure could theoretically scale up by an order of magnitude, in practical terms it would probably be best to split them at about a size of 12-15. It is my feeling that anything larger than that requires communication and organizational design practices that are overly formal for what should be a rather organic undertaking. Even a CIM of 12-15 should be able to be broken into two if new issue arise that require it.

3/07/2006 06:40:00 PM  
Blogger Karensky said...

Hey all, it seem to me having read the print media, tossed the old tele out the window when the Dems had Al, kill a Korean, Sharpton running under their banner for POTUS, that what we are seeing are three seperate traits in the media.
1. Some of these folks are just dumb as a box of rocks. No amount of logic, fact or detail will get through because this portion only has one trick.
2. Those whose ideological blinders, plus a hell of a intellectual PC dialectic from Journalism Grad School have deformed their observational capacity to the point that nonconforming facts simply do not register.
3. Some old war horses still get it that their job is to report facts, figures and observations on the ground, unfortunatly their editors get to tweak their reportage before it hits the press.
Ah, well, that is my two cents.

3/07/2006 06:44:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Larsen 6:38 PM
Re accusation of impugning (someone's) patriotism, a good reponse is, "No, the problem is, you're getting people killed."
---
---
"Heavens No!
I'm just asking you to temporarily temper your passionate patriotism for the duration in the interest of saving innocent lives, and those of our troops.
"

3/07/2006 06:59:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Wretchard--good point. "Commitment" as in a crime organization--Something to create the loyalty that is then security from the consequences of that something. Very dialectical.

SDH, good stuff. Cadres. Fire with fire.

3/07/2006 06:59:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I think if everyone could easily understand Wretchard's 6:39 PM comment, the battle would be won.
---
Sometimes, it seems, only those that have been there, can.

3/07/2006 07:02:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

committment, will, desire, faith, persistence.

The Enemy has all these and more.
The Enemy know who their Enemy is.
They know why.
They know where.

The Press, they still see our Government as the center of the story.
They have no fear of US Defeat.
The feed off the energy of the Congress and White House, where there is no fear of Defeat.

Fear of another attack, front and center, but outright Defeat, unthinkable.

So the "Unwinnable War" is spun to being the "Long War", with hopes the next Administration can straighten out the mess.

Stiff upper lip, though.

When the Sec of Def repeatedly admits the US is gettin' it's ASS KICKED and the MSM think the story is about them, their Patriotism.
It is not that at all, it is just that our Enemies have evolved to the next Level of Warfare, while we still depend on Abrams tanks.
Which would be great, if there were targets for the tanks, but there no longer are.

The US Army, much like the USS Iowa, a hell of a fightin' ship, just time passed her tactics by.

3/07/2006 07:06:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Doug, 6:59, "The choice of preserving lives is the enemy's. Our choice is between 1936 and 1941, when's the best time to fight back?"

3/07/2006 07:06:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

'Rat says we can't.

3/07/2006 07:12:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

It's a rested 'Rat, too.
We may be in for trouble.
Unless it's a rrested.

3/07/2006 07:15:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Rat, that's what Peter UK once observed, that the White House is the prize of all prizes, and compared to it, nothing else matters. The white House is from whence all blessing$ flow. A war is just another political issue related to who gets the big prize.

3/07/2006 07:15:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The "Catch and Release" policy the US has employeed in Iraq, buddy, can account for more US deaths and injuries than any MSM story I believe you could point to, buddy.

Not to say "Catch and Release" may be bad Policy, but MSM storylines did not shoot LTC Kurilla.

Casting about for others to take the "blame", will not rectify the problem for the Administration.

The Press in the US is the way it is, they will not be muzzled or hung. The are and always have been a factor, if the Administration cannot deal with them, time for another Administration, or at least fresh staffers.

3/07/2006 07:16:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

d'Rat,

eMail me your details. I'll write you a prescription.

3/07/2006 07:16:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I'm starting to feel depressed.
hmmm...

3/07/2006 07:18:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"time for another Administration"
---
"JFK2, It's Time!" tm

3/07/2006 07:21:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Nice rhetoric, rat, but two dozen seasoned MSM reporters, spread across a half-dozen print, broadcast, and news-service outlets, that had been operating according to their job descriptions, might well have kept Lt. Kurilla from getting shot.

3/07/2006 07:24:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

When it is a War like this one, buddy.
Tell me who the Enemy is.
There are only two, one is in Jail.

But sure as shootin' the Enemy is not Islam, Mohammed, Arabs, Mr Assad or Iran.

At least not yet.

"Osama, dead or alive", Mr Bush doesn't say that much anymore, like "crusade", lost from the lexicon.

But of course, that is the fault of CNN & the NYTimes

3/07/2006 07:25:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Might well avoid giving up because of the inevitable [civil war, quagmire, bloodbath] that's only inevitable if you wish it so long enough.

3/07/2006 07:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

So I guess Bob Hope Red Skelton, Ronald Reagan, et al were just a bunch of fools wasting their time.
Like Jimmy Stewart and Ted Williams.

3/07/2006 07:29:00 PM  
Blogger Enigma said...

Our enemy has long understood our center of gravity. It would seem that we are currently on the losing end of the information war.

OTOH, it may not matter as much as we now think. Time, contrary to what conventional wisdom might say, is not on AQ's side. The ISF are gaining in size and strength every day. AQ must drive the US out of Iraq before the ISF reach the tipping point of being able to contain the insurgency with minimal US involvement. Unless Congress takes forceful action, or Bush's resolve weakens, the Iraqis have at least until Jan '09.

It is interesting that the outcome in Iraq may eventually hinge upon the ability and resolve of one man to weather a domestic political firestorm.

3/07/2006 07:30:00 PM  
Blogger Marcus Aurelius said...

Thanks for the highlights of the Rumsfeld news conference. I just posted an obit on my blog and the highlights of the news conference got me to laughing.

I'm glad I like Rummy otherwise he would do to me what he does to the lefties.

Anyway, it will probably playout as you indicate. Rush L. was talking about all the Iraqi civil war stories in the news of late and noted the MSM is now reporting 80% of Americans believe Iraq is in civil war or about to enter it.

And they accuse the Bush administration of disinformation, unfrigginbelievable. It is almost driving me back to tears.

3/07/2006 07:30:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Are you saying that the MSM have no effect on the governance of the nation, rat?

That the prez doesn't need congress, and that congressmen do not feedback to their constituents perceptions of reality?

3/07/2006 07:31:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

'Rat,
You quote Roggio a lot.
Does he think we're getting our ass kicked in Iraq?

3/07/2006 07:32:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

It took only Mr Yon to break that story, buddy, but instead of uproar over the Policy, you complain that the story is not well enough told?

It is well known in Iraq, not here.
Would that help the US War effort, for the "rank & file" in the US to know that exDetainees are released to kill again. Would that help Mr Bush?
Most likely not.
What if there were 100,000 or more Sunni detainees, if we did not release them. Would that have gelped "stabilize" Iraq?

Mr Bush and Staff cannot explain the Port Deal, how could the explain "Catch & Release"?

3/07/2006 07:32:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

constituents'

(the dropped apostrophe turns the meaning around the wrong way)

3/07/2006 07:36:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

When does the media get it right? Not often. A free adversarial press is useful when it is directed at domestic audiences and goes against current thinking for the purpose of keeping it "thinking" and not current dogma. With the advent of a worldwide audience, the western MSM assaults the morale of those "doing the doing" and plays into the hands of our adversaries, enemies and mortal enemies.

3/07/2006 07:36:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"how could the explain "Catch & Release"? "
---
I don't think he could, to your satisfaction or mine.
That means we're doomed until JFK2 gets in?

3/07/2006 07:37:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I don't know, rat. I DO know that we're in a scrap, we didn't pick it, and of the two choices of which party to get us through it, I like this bunch better than the other choice.

3/07/2006 07:39:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

First it was the Highway of Death.
Then Murtha.
Now, (Still) Catch and Release.
Now the Ports.
---
I'm leaving lots out, but FDR would understand, I think.

3/07/2006 07:39:00 PM  
Blogger fred said...

I like Karensky's precis of what is happening in the disinformation campaign. He understands that this is a complex phenomenon whereby a variety of different orientations and abilities are caught in the web, managed, if you will, by people and institutions that wish to use the journalism media to shape political reality. And those manipulators are not just AQ and other Islamist players. I still think David Horowitz nailed the thing down in his book about the Left having taken a side with the Islamists. The Pentagon and our military are never going to get a break from these folks, of that I am convinced.

However things go in Iraq, we are still in the very early stages of what is going to be a long war between the West and Islam, and right now the other side has the PR campaign on their side, although this is perhaps starting to turn with the appearance of riots in France and the brouhaha over the cartoon critical of Islam. It IS getting harder for the Left to put forth a formidable argument in favor of its pet "victims" and their cause. More people are begining to do what people like myself have done over six years now: read up on Islam and its history. It will be harder to fool the folks with bland, baseless platitudes. Even in Europe the people (certainly not the elites)are starting to express their dissatisfaction with where things are headed.

So, the optimist in me would latch on to some of the things W.T. Sherman said on the eve of the Civil War about the people of the North, vis-a-vis their more hot tempered Southern fellow-citizens. It may take a while to get moving, but when we do get moving we will embrace a terrible resolve to fight this thing to a satisfactory conclusion. More overreaching on the part of the jihadis will rustle the more somnolent among us, and shame and isolate more of the Left's collaboration.

3/07/2006 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Who is talkin' Iraq?
That War is over, for US. 132,000 of are troops are in Garrison, 6,000 on Patrol.

I am speaking of our first War, buddy. Not the second.

The War left unfinished.

Mr Roggio, I'm not sure, he reports, the reader draws his own conclusions.

We did take down 60 bad guys in 5 raids in one day, last week.
Not bad for a SWAT Team.
Not to good for an ARMY, of 138,000 troops.

3/07/2006 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Rumsfeld can learn to surf with a simple mouse click. Though by now, I was hoping he'd be pro at ripping waves and snaking boogers.

3/07/2006 07:42:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

7:40 PM,
Even tho the ISF is building, and they need insurance in the meantime?

3/07/2006 07:43:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

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3/07/2006 07:44:00 PM  
Blogger unaha-closp said...

Mr Rumsfield has said that the war is being fought against a multinational, pan religious, fanatical terrorist enterprise that cannot be defined to any specific group. That the war is going to be long and arduous, with no clear end in sight.

And now he comes out and says the media are pessimists?

3/07/2006 07:44:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Rat you said "Who is talkin' Iraq?
That War is over, for US. 132,000 of are troops are in Garrison, 6,000 on Patrol."

Is that not a bad thing? A low profile but ready and deployed?

3/07/2006 07:47:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wretchard 7:44 PM,
Thanks,
My Patriotism was begining to flag.
Half masted, it was.

3/07/2006 07:47:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Well, the Pentagon is full of 200 IQ planners with a huge flow of information on every detail knowable by this side of the war. So, what would I know, anyway--or you, rat, for that matter, other than our own possibly unconsciously prejudiced perceptions?

3/07/2006 07:48:00 PM  
Blogger rich said...

There is in fact a civil war going on, but not in Iraq, the civil war is in the USA.

The insurgent reporters have declared war and will use their complete armory of lies, ommissions and indignant mistatements to defeat the present USA government.

Make no mistake the MSM has declared war on this administration. No foreign war will stop their attack. They will do anything to succeed.

The counterattack will come with the leak prosecutions. But this type of a political war will not be won in the courts. Too slow.

This war will be won or lost at the ballot box.

Politics is hell!

3/07/2006 07:49:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"The insurgent reporters have declared war and will use their complete armory of lies, ommissions and indignant mistatements to defeat the present USA government."
---
So a battle was lost back when honor, honesty, and civility was declared optional, huh?

3/07/2006 07:52:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Deployed against whom, 2164?

Saddam?
The Sunni Insurgents?
The Shia Militias?
Mr al-Sadr?

All the problems that exist today, in Iraq, were there three years ago, we have not "solved" them. We will not solve them in 30 more years of Garrisoning the Country.

The US troops are themselves considered "provocative" when on the streets of Iraq.

If the Enemy is not identified the Army cannot destroy it.

Whom is the target in Iraq?

3/07/2006 07:54:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

7:52 PM: Dave Horowitz would know.

3/07/2006 07:55:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

What about that Salon, Rat--nothing there that should hurt a better-quality war-effort?

3/07/2006 07:55:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"All the problems that exist today, in Iraq, were there three years ago, we have not "solved" them. We will not solve them in 30 more years of Garrisoning the Country."
---
I thought we ALL agreed it would have to be done by Iraqis.
...with different timetables, of course.

3/07/2006 07:57:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I think the Salon thing was an accident Bud.
The MSM doesn't want to stir anything up, that's why they didn't print the 'toons.

3/07/2006 07:59:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The ISF handled this Civil War thing like the pros we trained them to be, doug.

Insurance against whom?
Who is about to take on the 232,000 men the Iraqis have under arms, now?

This nonCivil War has proved the case, better than rhetoric. We were not, are not, needed in Iraq to secure it. The Iraqis did just fine. They may need some more trucks.

3/07/2006 08:00:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

'Rat 8:00 PM,
Don't want to give a lame answer to that, I'll let someone else have a try.

3/07/2006 08:04:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"All the problems that exist today, in Iraq, were there three years ago, we have not "solved" them."


Three years ago Iraq had no government--there've been three national elections, the last one brought out 11,000,000 voters. The constitutional base of the government has been established, and is under attack from a tribal minority and a bellicose, charismatic, expansionist, fanatic, oil-rich neighbor.

That these underlying problems are now proximate is the fault of the administration, or the war-effort?

3/07/2006 08:04:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Not really, buddy.
Those pictures are well known and have been widely seen.
Just like the Cartoons. The Enemy will rehash old News if it needs to. No Mohammedan recruit is on the Salon mailing list.

What General was relieved over the Abu fiasco?

3/07/2006 08:07:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Rat said " The US troops are themselves considered "provocative" when on the streets of Iraq.

If the Enemy is not identified the Army cannot destroy it.

Whom is the target in Iraq?"

Point well taken, but the political call was that we are there to support Iraqi freedom and democracy. We denied being occupiers and bet the farm on the political process. With that stated policy we are deployed against the Rumdfeldian "unknowable" but likely event where the adversarial forces re-group into larger units. The military policay seems to be working well as this formation has not occured. It is unfortunate that with the gloom and doom of the MSM, most people do not see this as an achievement. And it is an achievement.

3/07/2006 08:09:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Actually the unit's CO was relieved, rat. A lady, don't have her name. She was (is?) a General, though.

3/07/2006 08:12:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"No Mohammedan recruit is on the Salon mailing list."
---
Tell that to the kids run down in North Carolina.

3/07/2006 08:12:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I think she has been reduced to a light bird.

3/07/2006 08:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Although I DID listen to Savage for a minute Railing about why the SUV Bomber is not called a Hate Crime by the FBI, and I had no retort.

3/07/2006 08:14:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

It is the fault of Iraq and the Polly Annish idea that they would follow Rodbet King's advise "and all just get along".

To a great extent that is the fault of the Administration.

The "War Effort". The US has steadfastly tried to avoid any combat during the Occupation, Fallujah I. When all else has failed, as in Fallujah II, we would act.

Though Saddam was dethroned, his Tribe was never defeated, 'til it is, there will not be "peace" in Iraq.
We decided not to defeat Saddam's tribe. So the responsibility is ours, it will be 'til we leave.

3/07/2006 08:14:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

2164th: There ARE no "acheivements" worthy of note, not as long as GWB OCCUPIES the Whitehouse.

3/07/2006 08:16:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Rat, i think the Turkish halting of the 4th ID took the opportunity away from hitting the Saddamites at the proper time. Another "unknowable"

3/07/2006 08:17:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"No Mohammedan recruit is on the Salon mailing list."

Jeez, Rat, that's just plain sophistry. You know that channel-stuffing those sorts of images loads the vulnerables with rage. That's as well-established a fact as anything that has come out of this war. Please.

3/07/2006 08:18:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Doug, GMB is among the "unloved".

3/07/2006 08:18:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Of course I meant GWB

3/07/2006 08:19:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Just declare the driver an "enemy combatant", send him to Gitmo. or hang 'em.

But 2164, the Iraqi Government does not maintain a monopoly of force, within Iraq. Until it does the country will remain unstable.
Who should disarm the Militias?
If it comes to a fight?
Did the US sign on to that job?

That problem is well beyond, "supporting the emergence of a democratic government" or is it?

3/07/2006 08:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Though Saddam was dethroned, his Tribe was never defeated, 'til it is, there will not be "peace" in Iraq. "
---
Seems like a lot of level-headed Sunnis disagree.
Given the alternative is suicide.

3/07/2006 08:20:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Could have landed in Haifa and driven to Baghdad from there.

The failure of the Turks was a failure of the Bush Administration. The Turks had been on the payroll for over 50 years, for the Bush people to let that "get away"...
Who was relieved over that?.

3/07/2006 08:23:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

Rat, I agree it is an Iraqui job to finish. This current US ambassador is making that clear to them. Maybe with a little luck they will see a strong government is their only salvation.

3/07/2006 08:23:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

Not all Sunni are a part of a monolithic group, doug.
It takes morre than Religious affilliation to one of the sects in the "Religion of Peace" to be targeted, bt US.

3/07/2006 08:25:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

A couple of days ago, Red River complained about rehashing off thread comments to death, to the detriment of the thread.
I was certainly guilty.
Could we be doing that again here?

3/07/2006 08:25:00 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

If Iran has SOF in Iraq, then certain atacks which no one claims responsibility for would naturally fall under their portfolio.

The Mosque bombing is one as is the targeted killings of various ISF leaders.

Forensics from the AARs would tell us more.

3/07/2006 08:26:00 PM  
Blogger 2164th said...

I think I should retire to quarters, I find I am in much too agreement with the esteemed sand rodent.

3/07/2006 08:28:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

I tell you, it is getting boring.

3/07/2006 08:28:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I think they're like a *dare*. Mitigating details may not matter, when the group is having the images shoved in their face and challenged "Aren't you gonna DO something about this?"

Salon well knows this, well knows that the newsworthiness is gone, but that there is value in *their* war effort--that is to lose it--in their recirculation.

How can you say that this sort of attitude--now accepted as the norm--has no effect on the enemy?

Just knowing that they have powerful friends within their enemy's camp, is deep and profound. It HAS to be. Human nature, "time is on my side, I'll stick with it."

3/07/2006 08:29:00 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

What about the "other" Blackwater Ambush in 2004 - on the Airport Road - the AAR speculated they were Chechens - but what if they were Al-Quds?

http://washingtontimes.com/world/20040614-095047-5835r.htm

Many Iranians look Caucasian.

Some things are starting to make sense now.

3/07/2006 08:32:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Who was relieved over that? Gen. Coal in Paw?

3/07/2006 08:32:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Right, I'm rehashing--thanks for the heads-up. Rat, you rat.

3/07/2006 08:33:00 PM  
Blogger rufus said...

We're about through in Iraq. The politics are going to go whichever way they're going to go. We might want to leave 10 or 20 thousand there for a couple of years to work with the ISF.

Of course, there's always Iran. We might not want to bring the bulk of our troops home until we've dealt with that.

3/07/2006 08:33:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

A factor that has to be added to the mix on top of the 3 Wretchard mentioned why we might quit, affecting us conservatives even, is the growing perception of the incompetence of the Bush Administration.

Everyone can cite a few instances that particularly bother them - the Schiavo Fiasco, Katrina, Harriet Miers, reckless fiscal management of the USA, Dubai ports deal, the bungled postwar in Iraq, tendency to take extreme ideological positions, failure to veto, failed strategic communications, failure to even name the enemy for 4 years, failure to consult even the Republican leaders in Congress on critical issues, and on and on. We can give out some mulligans, but frankly, the "charity" mulligans ran out on Bush last summer.

So a 4th question is: can Bush & Co, including Rumsfeld, be trusted and be considered believable to competently manage existing messes like Iraq, Katrina cleanup, and also deal new emerging critical situations with the current Bush Administration staff?

In more and more households, conservative, liberal, and independent ---- the answer is no.

3/07/2006 08:35:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Right, C4, I remember all those conservative mulligans you've been handing out.

3/07/2006 08:39:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

The Bush Administration is doing a super job. That's my perception. Why is yours different?

3/07/2006 08:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Luckily, C-4, he can't run again so we won't have to vote against him.
In the meantime, full time pot shots for all, or leave that to the opposition, MSM, France, Germany, and etc?
Oh yeah, and the enemy.

3/07/2006 08:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Didn't you see that signed Oath that he's on our side, Mat?

3/07/2006 08:41:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

I agree with you, Unpronouncible Name.

3/07/2006 08:42:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

I prefer him in front.

3/07/2006 08:43:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

What's so hard about Dug?

3/07/2006 08:44:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Keep 'em guessing

3/07/2006 08:48:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

"Bush Incompetent" boils down to "I Don't Like Bush".

3/07/2006 08:48:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

And never did.

3/07/2006 08:49:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Buddy Smells, but then a Rose is a Rose.

3/07/2006 08:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

If we can reconstitute GWB.
He'll be a Rose Bush,
And we'll all be fine.

3/07/2006 08:52:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Mat doesn't either, but we knew he was weird.

3/07/2006 08:54:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

There ain't a birdie singin' in the honey tree on Big Rock Candy Mountain wot can't be cursed for a low-down dirty rotten scoundrel.

3/07/2006 08:54:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Was "I Like Bush"
ought zero, or '04?

3/07/2006 08:55:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I thought it was eternal.

3/07/2006 08:57:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Up Rose Bush, too thorny.

3/07/2006 09:00:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Doug, up where I'm at, the air is so thin one can't even smell one's own farts. For shame.

3/07/2006 09:00:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Yeah, Tony said Fuel Air Weapons aren't effective at high altitude in the last thread.

3/07/2006 09:02:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Who smelt it, dealt it.

3/07/2006 09:03:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I told him, if that's true, we should just unleash all our old Iron Bombs.
That might work for you too, Mat.
They may be iron hard, but they sure do smell.

3/07/2006 09:04:00 PM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Friends, you might enjoy the 'Rachel Corrie Tribute' and "Bennish's Pop Quiz" MP3s now available at

http://www.brainsurgerywithspoons.blogspot.com

On thread, this is. Part of a counter-propaganda effort by the Satirical Authors' League of Truth!

Karridine

3/07/2006 09:07:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

We here in Texas know them as "Arn Bombs".

3/07/2006 09:07:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Karridine 9:07 PM,
I figure we're tasked with keeping up the moral.
Thanks.
I go to sleep at night dreaming I'm Bob Hope.

3/07/2006 09:09:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I keep up the morals,
Buddy keeps up the morale.

3/07/2006 09:10:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Speaking of satirical truth, Tovia Singer to interviews Wafa Sultan tonight.

http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=346

3/07/2006 09:12:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

That's that savy chick from the last thread?
She's one powerful weapon.

3/07/2006 09:13:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wow, she's American. Quite a lady.

3/07/2006 09:16:00 PM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Thanks, Friends...

I can get real enthusiastic about you sharing that moral morale with lotsa friends!

And watch for TOMORROW'S MP3, same time, same station, different subject!

Oh, and if you have ANY SUGGESTIONS for content I should record, please email karridine@gmail.com

Thanks

3/07/2006 09:16:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Yeah, but who the hell is Tovia Singer?!

3/07/2006 09:16:00 PM  
Blogger Cutler said...

"how could the explain "Catch & Release"?

You're dealing with an Iraqi justice system that is just getting off the ground/dealing with real standards for the first time in decades. So long as we're depending on them to run the country it means they've got to deal with it.

We've got thousands in detention because you can only process them so fast. If we've killed 50,000 people, how many do you think have gone through the infant justice system? Hold them in masses and you piss off people/give insurgents the opportunity to recruit en-masse in the jails.

We aren't going to kill/imprison for life every insurgent that comes into our hands. Some will be rallied, some given light setences, some and heavier. Mistakes will be made, and it is inefficient at times, but it isn't necessarily always incompetence.

I for sure don't think I'm in a position to judge this particular balance, history certainly will, however.

3/07/2006 09:16:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Karridine, don't know if it would fit your style, but be sure to see my Brokeback Lego Link near the end of the last thread.
That might be hilarious.

3/07/2006 09:19:00 PM  
Blogger Cutler said...

"Mistakes will be made, and it is inefficient at times, but it isn't necessarily always incompetence.

I for sure don't think I'm in a position to judge this particular balance, history certainly will, however."


Just want to reassert that you could be right. In Vietnam we had the problem that many of the South Vietnamese justices treated Viet infra-structure captured through Phoenix as common criminals, giving them 6 month-1 year sentences. However, there's a lot more than just 'catch and release' going on, we aren't going to kill/hold for life every guy we pick up. And some of it isn't in our hands, that's just part of the territory.

3/07/2006 09:22:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

I agree that the MSM is a tool of the enemy. It's been that way for quite some time. Just review the NYT/Walter Duranty case.


Walter Duranty, based in Moscow, was the Times' key propagandist


How to stop the MSM's propaganda? A good step would be to quit consuming their product. In short, don't feed the monster. Starve him until he withers away.

Other posters have some good proactive suggestions. Some of those ideas look good. As Wasp notes:

I'll be waiting for somebody to dust off Yates v. United States, the conspiracy statutes and the Smith Act and getting seriously into sedition prosecutions.

I am wondering if this can actually be put to use at this juncture. If so let's do it.

3/07/2006 09:22:00 PM  
Blogger Cutler said...

"Viet *Cong* infra-structure..."

3/07/2006 09:24:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Sacco and Vanzetti are somehow lodged in my memory scrapheap alongside the Alien and Sedition Act.

3/07/2006 09:31:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

For a humorous look that the MSM's propganda John spoofs the Iraqi elections:

[Picture of MSM reporter in Baghdad with buildings ablaze in the back ground]

Joe Scarborough
Our own David Schuster is in Baghdad. David, there have been a lot of concerns about security there, with the Sunni Arabs threatening to kill anyone who takes part in this election.

David Shuster
That's right, Joe. Unfortunately, those threats have been very effective, resulting in widespread fear, and leaving very little hope...

Joe Scarborough
I can also see American snipers positioned strategically on rooftops...

David Shuster
They wouldn't be the first snipers to be taken out by...

Joe Scarborough
...and what appear to be American military helicopters patrolling the skies..

David Shuster
I'd hate to be in one of those choppers, considering the capabilities of the surface-to-air missiles the insurgents...

Joe Scarborough
...tanks and armored vehicles surrounding the city on all sides...

Shuster
One IED and those tanks are toast.



See: Iraq Election Blogging

3/07/2006 10:09:00 PM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

wretchard & starling david hunter:
But what to do about it?
Cry Havoc, and let slip the Blogs of War.
"Citizen information militias" sounds like a Volunteer Information Warfare Corps, or the 101st Keyboard Commando Brigade. Maybe Minutemen on the Information Highway, helping out the Dod and DoS Border patrol whether they want help or not.
Each CIM would be organized around 1-2 major and a handful of minor issues.
Who assigns issues?
Each CIM would be formed of at least two major departments or functional areas- research and retail and possibly and third operations.
Are we ready to write the CIM TO&E?
Who can we get to sell it at the milblogger's conference?

3/07/2006 10:46:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Big News at Drudge:
WHO: BIRD FLU BIGGER CHALLENGE THAN AIDS

China Sees 10th Human Death From Bird Flu...
---
OT, but possible for future discussion since we have some medical people here?

A local Doc had another Doc on that wrote a book on it.
Was glad I heard the show, since I've always been concerned about flu.

He said we should be talking to Bird Experts not Human Docs and researchers.
Said as of now it's pretty darned hard to get it from birds, which is born out by the low numbers, even in China, of all places.

Anything can happen, but does not think a mutation making it easily transmissible to humans is that likely, and who knows how lethal it would be then?

Most interesting thing he had to say was comparing the state of our Medical/Health Armementarium ? now vs 1920.
Lots of people died of stuff like pneumonia that would not have to die now.
Lots of other stuff like that that I do not recall.

3/07/2006 11:16:00 PM  
Blogger unaha-closp said...

I thought we ALL agreed it would have to be done by Iraqis.
...with different timetables, of course.


The most powerful military force ever assembled invades a peasent country, then takes some damage during the occupation mainly from foreign powers in 3 neighbouring countries.

Proposed agreed upon solution, the peasent country (which hasn't ever won a war before) will deal with it. Pray tell how exactly?

Iraq lost its last war versus Iran. And this time round it will be fighting Syria and Sunni backed Al Qaeda as well.

3/07/2006 11:20:00 PM  
Blogger Cutler said...

Unaha, setting aside the fact that the Iraqis cleaned the Iranian's clocks once they completely mobilized and professionalized their forces, it is a bit more complicated than that.

3/07/2006 11:50:00 PM  
Blogger John Palcewski said...

The obscene farce continues, unabated. Chief Fascist Republican swine Karl Rove faxes Congress with his orders of the day, and every gooper follows in precise formation, goose-stepping their way to the total destruction of the Constitution, and the now outdated concepts of judicial review and congressional oversight. An imperial presidency is now upon us.

And the reaction of the electorate?

Well, guess what. Cheney's polls aren't as bad as they were made out to be. It appears now that the drunken shooting spree in Texas has NOT seriously affected fat ass's standing, nor diminished in any way his firm grip on the short hairs of congressmen. Oversee the secret spying? Forget it.

There should be outrage, but there isn't, except in the liberal blogs and we all know what that means. Karl has permanently redefined the term, so now we have to scramble around and find a new label, like progressive. Well, all right. Fine. I'm now a progressive.

This lack of public outrage is a very bad sign. I fear for America. It is being destroyed step-by-step, and the solid fascist swine "base" remains locked at 40 percent or thereabouts.

I say again, and I'll keep repeating it. Any American who votes in November for a Republican is a goddamned TRAITOR.


John Palcewski
http://forioscribe.livejournal.com

3/08/2006 12:06:00 AM  
Blogger unaha-closp said...

Complicated in ways that further hinder the development of a democratic Iraq.

How will they deal with it?

3/08/2006 12:08:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Indeed, who wants to know what AQ is Saying to John Q Taliban here anyway?

The other night when Osama called, I swear I could hear the computers humming on the line.

So from now on, my conversations with old 'bin will feel stiff and unnatural.
Damn that Dick Cheney!

3/08/2006 12:13:00 AM  
Blogger unaha-closp said...

Actually to my mind the question is rhetorical. My answer is either

A - they make Syria, Iran and Saudi believe that if one more terrorist shows up from any of them that escalating retaliatory strikes will follow.

Or

B - they make it a criminal act to "facilitate actions counter to the good of the Iraqi state" and lock up, torture and execute anyone who smells like a terrorist.

Reckon B is the more probable approach.

3/08/2006 12:20:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"so now we have to scramble around and find a new label"
---
Try "Dumbasses"

3/08/2006 12:20:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ain't that the Truth?
Birth of a Jackass.

(If he wasn't Polish, he'd use a nice sharp 15k Gif instead of a fat, fuzzy 42k jpeg)

3/08/2006 12:30:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

John and his friends run around the island playing the role of public spies.
Very Progressive.

3/08/2006 12:56:00 AM  
Blogger Cannoneer No. 4 said...

Democrats' Data Mining Stirs an Intraparty Battle
Politics is just war carried on by other means.

3/08/2006 01:05:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Consultants working for the Republican National Committee developed strategies to design messages targeting individual voters' "anger points" in the belief that grievance is one of the strongest motivations to get people to turn out on Election Day."
---
So if Hillary gets the nomination, they can just turn off the computers and wait for voters to stream in to vote against her.

3/08/2006 01:57:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

And John Palcewski will have to join all his friends in Italy and sign up with the Communist Party.

3/08/2006 01:59:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Listening to Laura Ingraham talking about the Pimpification of the Culture, reading words from song that won an Oscar, it's hard being a Pimp, or some such.
Actually made me physically ill to think this is where the Suicidalists have taken us.
Isn't self-debasement good preparation for becoming good dhimmis?
Especially when the specifics are often the same, in this case glorification of misogyny and the use and abuse of women.
Not to mention a bunch of White Progressive congratulating "Black Culture" for living down to their expectations.

3/08/2006 03:19:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

John Palcewski at 12:06 AM:

Everybody okay? Anybody get hit?
Damn progressive drive-bys!

BTW - As he sprayed the building, I heard him yelling abt Bush's numbers holding at around 40%. That reminded me of Zarcawi's letter to bin Laden crying about how hard it was in Iraq.

This guy is bitterly disappointed that in spite of the MSM and 6 years of relentess Democrat opposition, they haven't been able to bring down GWB.

Well, they keep trying. In the most recent issue of Atlantic Magazine, Stuart Taylor, Jr. (the Supreme Court reporter) has a commentary warning that GWB is trying to expand the Imperial Presidency like no President since Lincoln. He says that Bush has unconscionably contravened the Constitution and Congress along with the Supremes must do their duty and reign him in.

These lunatics must not be allowed to control any branch of the US government.

3/08/2006 03:39:00 AM  
Blogger whit said...

Doug, 3:19

I am constantly dismayed by the condition of our culture. The descent I have seen in my lifetime is just unbelievable.

3/08/2006 03:44:00 AM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Doug, thanx.
I'll check out the Buttcrack Lego connection.

And I'm thinking of a blogosphere-wide contest to write the best country song IN SUPPORT of that lonely man in the White House...

What say you, Men of the West?

3/08/2006 04:36:00 AM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

That's it. I'm never visiting Poland again!

3/08/2006 06:11:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Karridine,
I gave you the wrong thread, so I'll just paste them here.
Anyway, we made it to midweek: Brokeback Day.

Intimate Encounter of the Brokeback Kind

Lego Brokeback Mountain Tribute

3/08/2006 12:19:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

btw, Karridine, did you see my bird flu comment?
Any comments, you being an MD an all would be appreciated.
Not to mention being over there near the great
Communist Flu Breeding Nation.

3/08/2006 12:21:00 PM  
Blogger Red Lief said...

LLL says :

"I say again, and I'll keep repeating it. Any American who votes in November for a Republican is a goddamned TRAITOR."

Uh, yeah.

Dude, like anyone who quits the bong party before 3 AM is, like, a traitor, man. And a drag. Man. A real downer.

Toke.

3/09/2006 07:45:00 PM  
Blogger woof111 said...

"I say again, and I'll keep repeating it. Any American who votes in November for a Republican is a goddamned TRAITOR."

--------------------
This is what makes the internet such great entertainment, though I didn't expect moonbat ravings on Belmont's site.

This is an adult site Moonbat!

3/10/2006 07:54:00 PM  

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