Friday, September 02, 2005

Kingdom by the Sea

Asymmetrical Information has this link to a Juan Cole post, citing the lack of destruction in New Orleans (on August 30) as a refutation of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson's assertion that God visited 9/11 on America for its moral transgressions. The text of Professor Cole's blog post is reproduced below and it is utterly convincing.

Tuesday, August 30, 2005

Bourbon Street Unscathed Christian Terrorists Proved Wrong

Bourbon Street in New Orleans is relatively unscathed. Amid so much death and destruction, that New Orleans did not take the full fury of the storm, and so many lives were spared, is one small consolation. But let us consider what this means in light of the twisted logic of notorious Christian terrorists Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell (I once saw Falwell advocate assassinating Muammar Qadhafi). Their shameful attack on the United States and its values is below. In the terms of their logic, and given today's news about Bourbon Street being saved from destruction, only three conclusions are possible.

1. God does not exist.
Or:

2. God does not use natural or man-made catastrophes to punish people for moral failings.
Or:

3. God does not actually object to people having a good time occasionally.

However, if we substitute the term "History" for God in Fallwell and Robertson's argument, we arrive at Ward Churchill's Justice of Roosting Chickens. Professor Churchill argued, "On the morning of September 11, 2001, a few more chickens -- along with some half-million dead Iraqi children -- came home to roost in a very big way at the twin towers of New York's World Trade Center. Well, actually, a few of them seem to have nestled in at the Pentagon as well." It is the same theme of retribution visited on innocent people -- oops, "little Eichmanns" -- for the moral transgressions of America.

Not far behind on behalf of their deity are Gaia's adherents. Der Spiegel has a roundup of European commentators who feel sure that Katrina is nature's way of warning America about the effects of Global Warming.

Hurricane Katrina is big news for German commentators, whatever their ilk. For some, the powerful storm which slammed the Gulf Coast on Monday, is a symbol of the sort of environmental terrors awaiting the world thanks to global warming and proof positive that America needs to quickly reverse its policy of playing down climate change.

Of course, it does not follow that because Cole turned out to be wrong that both Falwell and Robertson are right -- or does it? I leave it to the readers to discover, what, if any, logical errors these arguments contain, bearing in mind of course, that those who advanced them are still confident of their eventual vindication. My favorite example of possibly mistaken causality is provided by Edgar Allen Poe. But then he was part mad, and probably knew it.

I was a child and she was a child,
In this kingdom by the sea;
But we loved with a love that was more than love -
I and my Annabel Lee;
With a love that the winged seraphs of heaven
Coveted her and me.
And this was the reason that, long ago,
In this kingdom by the sea,
A wind blew out of a cloud, chilling
My beautiful Annabel Lee;
So that her highborn kinsman came
And bore her away from me,
To shut her up in a sepulcher
In this kingdom by the sea.
The angels, not half so happy in heaven,
Went envying her and me
Yes! that was the reason
(as all men know, In this kingdom by the sea)
That the wind came out of the cloud by night,
Chilling and killing my Annabel Lee.

224 Comments:

Blogger Doug said...

Masques of Death .
New Orleans has one of the highest murder rates in the country. By mid-August of this year, 192 murders had been committed in New Orleans, "nearly 10 times the national average," reported the Associated Press. Gunfire is so common in New Orleans -- and criminals so fierce -- that when university researchers conducted an experiment last year in which they had cops fire 700 blank rounds in a neighborhood on a random afternoon "no one called to report the gunfire," reported AP.

New Orleans was ripe for collapse. Its dangerous geography, combined with a dangerous culture, made it susceptible to an unfolding catastrophe. Currents of chaos and lawlessness were running through the city long before this week, and they were bound to come to the surface under the pressure of natural disaster and explode in a scene of looting and mayhem.

Like riotous Los Angeles since the 1960s, New Orleans has been a wasteland of politically correct dysfunction for decades -- public schools so obviously decimated vouchers were proposed this year (and torpedoed by the left), barbaric gangster rap culture no one will confront lest they offend liberal pieties, multiculturalist frauds who empower no one but themselves, and cops neutered by the NAACP and ACLU.

9/03/2005 12:06:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

The Highwayman
By Alfred Noyes

Part One
I
The wind was a torrent of darkness among the gusty trees,
The moon was a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas,
The road was a ribbon of moonlight, over the purple moor,
And the highwayman came riding-
Riding-riding-
The highwayman came riding, up to the old inn-door.

II
He'd a French cocked-hat on his forehead, a bunch of lace at his chin,
A coat of the claret velvet, and breeches of brown doe-skin;
They fitted with never a wrinkle: his boots were up to the thigh!
And he rode with a jewelled twinkle,
His pistol butts a-twinkle,
His rapier hilt a-twinkle, under the jewelled sky.

III
Over the cobbles he clattered and clashed in the dark inn-yard,
And he tapped with his whip on the shutters, but all was locked and barred;
He whistled a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there
But the landlord's black-eyed daughter,
Bess, the landlord's daughter,
Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair.

IV
And dark in the old inn-yard a stable-wicket creaked
Where Tim the ostler listened; his face was white and peaked;
His eyes were hollows of madness, his hair like mouldy hay,
But he loved the landlord's daughter,
The landlord's red-lipped daughter,
Dumb as a dog he listened, and he heard the robber say-

V
"One kiss, my bonny sweetheart, I'm after a prize to-night,
But I shall be back with the yellow gold before the morning light;
Yet, if they press me sharply, and harry me through the day,
Then look for me by moonlight,
Watch for me by moonlight,
I'll come to thee by moonlight, though hell should bar the way."

VI
He rose upright in the stirrups; he scarce could reach her hand,
But she loosened her hair i' the casement! His face burnt like a brand
As the black cascade of perfume came tumbling over his breast;
And he kissed its waves in the moonlight,
(Oh, sweet black waves in the moonlight!)
Then he tugged at his rein in the moonlight, and galloped away to the West.

Part Two
I
He did not come in the dawning; he did not come at noon;
And out o' the tawny sunset, before the rise o' the moon,
When the road was a gipsy's ribbon, looping the purple moor,
A red-coat troop came marching-
Marching-marching-
King George's men came marching, up to the old inn-door.

II
They said no word to the landlord, they drank his ale instead,
But they gagged his daughter and bound her to the foot of her narrow bed;
Two of them knelt at her casement, with muskets at their side!
There was death at every window;
And hell at one dark window;
For Bess could see, through the casement, the road that he would ride.

III
They had tied her up to attention, with many a sniggering jest;
They bound a musket beside her, with the barrel beneath her breast!
"Now keep good watch!" and they kissed her.
She heard the dead man say-
Look for me by moonlight;
Watch for me by moonlight;
I'll come to thee by moonlight, though hell should bar the way!

IV
She twisted her hands behind her; but all the knots held good!
She writhed her hands till here fingers were wet with sweat or blood!
They stretched and strained in the darkness, and the hours crawled by like
years,
Till, now, on the stroke of midnight,
Cold, on the stroke of midnight,
The tip of one finger touched it! The trigger at least was hers!

V
The tip of one finger touched it; she strove no more for the rest!
Up, she stood up to attention, with the barrel beneath her breast,
She would not risk their hearing; she would not strive again;
For the road lay bare in the moonlight;
Blank and bare in the moonlight;
And the blood of her veins in the moonlight throbbed to her love's refrain.

VI
Tlot-tlot; tlot-tlot! Had they heard it? The horse-hoofs
ringing clear;
Tlot-tlot, tlot-tlot, in the distance? Were they deaf that they did
not hear?
Down the ribbon of moonlight, over the brow of the hill,
The highwayman came riding,
Riding, riding!
The red-coats looked to their priming! She stood up strait and still!

VII
Tlot-tlot, in the frosty silence! Tlot-tlot, in the echoing night
!
Nearer he came and nearer! Her face was like a light!
Her eyes grew wide for a moment; she drew one last deep breath,
Then her finger moved in the moonlight,
Her musket shattered the moonlight,
Shattered her breast in the moonlight and warned him-with her death.

VIII
He turned; he spurred to the West; he did not know who stood
Bowed, with her head o'er the musket, drenched with her own red blood!
Not till the dawn he heard it, his face grew grey to hear
How Bess, the landlord's daughter,
The landlord's black-eyed daughter,
Had watched for her love in the moonlight, and died in the darkness there.

IX
Back, he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky,
With the white road smoking behind him and his rapier brandished high!
Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,
And he lay in his blood on the highway, with a bunch of lace at his throat.

* * * * * *

X
And still of a winter's night, they say, when the wind is in the trees,
When the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas,
When the road is a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor,
A highwayman comes riding-
Riding-riding-
A highwayman comes riding, up to the old inn-door.

XI
Over the cobbles he clatters and clangs in the dark inn-yard,
And he taps with his whip on the shutters, but all is locked and barred;
He whistles a tune to the window, and who should be waiting there
But the landlord's black-eyed daughter,
Bess, the landlord's daughter,
Plaiting a dark red love-knot into her long black hair.


Notes:
This is the original version of The Highwayman, copyrighted 1906, 1913.

9/03/2005 12:06:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

A city which boasts as one of its businesses memorial "death t-shirts" -- clothing made popular by the frequency of gangland slayings in New Orleans that say things like,
"Born a Pimp, Died a Playa"
-- was headed for collapse even without a hurricane, and had become, as the exodus of cops illustrates, unlivable.

9/03/2005 12:14:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

99 Search and Rescue Personnel from San Diego were assigned under a new post 9-11 national plan.

In the first 3.5 hours before dark, the first group on scene had swift water lifeguards rescue 250 and saw 500 more awaiting rescue.

The next day they were not allowed to resume due to security concerns.
- Roger Hedgecock

9/03/2005 12:33:00 AM  
Blogger WichitaBoy said...

When things go awry there seem to be three choices:
1) God did it.
2) Man did it.
3) Randomness occurs.

All are acts of religious faith.

Choose your poison.

9/03/2005 12:38:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Big Uneasy .
Cynic that I am, I wonder if that's one of our semi-legals that are filling up our prisons.

9/03/2005 12:39:00 AM  
Blogger pauldanish said...

A fellow named Hoeteling was a major purveyor of spirts in San Francisco at the time of the earthquake and fire. Remarkably his booze was one of the few things that survived the catastrophe, prompting the following verse:

If the Lord shook San Francisco
For being over-frisky,
How come he knocked the churches down
While sparing Hoeteling's whiskey?

One hundred years on no satisfactory answer has emerged

9/03/2005 02:13:00 AM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

Falwell and Robertson also say that AIDs is Gods punishment for the wickedness of those that do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

But AIDs is rare in Muslim nations, while common in Christian ones. Worse, even in the same nations, like South Africa or Nigeria where both Christians and Muslims are in substantial numbers, almost 50-50 in Nigeria, AIDs is a rare disease in the Muslim part of the population.
So the two goofy Jesus-lovers may be wrong about God having any involvement in mishaps, diseases, natural disasters. Or - God prefers Muslims to Christians.

Either prospect would be very disturbing to the two gentlemen.

9/03/2005 02:28:00 AM  
Blogger Dave Gudeman said...

Cole is no logician. He would have us believe that "One X is not a Y" implies that "No X is a Y". There is nothing inconsistent with the statements that "God uses natural disasters to punish people for moral failings." and the statement, "God did not use _this_ natural disaster to punish people for moral failings."

Frankly, I don't see why people who don't believe in God get so upset about these pronouncements. If some semi-famous rable rouser had declared that the hurricaine was the revenge of the fairyfolk because Mississippians had stopped leaving out saucers of milk for the brownies, I can't imagine getting all worked up about it.

I lie, of course. I know very well why people get so worked up about Falwell and Robertson. It's because a powerful set of opinion makers in this country have spent decades convincing Americans that moral decisions have no material consequencs, and they are concerned that Americans will begin to doubt that dogma.

9/03/2005 02:58:00 AM  
Blogger Heraclitus said...

Man has alaways strived to control Nature, this is what drives man's attempt to attempt to understand the "laws of nature". Yet, as Nietzsche observed, much to the despair of those whose faith is in Science, Nature follows no laws.

An interesting question is to consider why it is that certain men seek to control Nature. Is it to help "mankind" or rather is it that these men seek themselves to be gods?

9/03/2005 05:13:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

Speaking of twisted logic, here is something from the Gov of La.:
"Landrieu, a Louisiana Democrat, said she asked Bush during his tour of New Orleans on Friday to act within 24 hours to put a single official in charge of the overall relief effort who would report directly to him."
Sure would have thought that the State of La would have a disaster coordinator and would take the lead for telling the Feds what the state needed.
We need to realize that the people who are critising the Federal lack of action ARE NOT FEDERALISTS except when it suits them.
You name it: Civil rights, education, abortion, taxes, they want the Federal Govt to impose a solution that is mandatory everywhere.
The only place you hear about States Rights from them is Gay Marriage.

9/03/2005 05:15:00 AM  
Blogger Carey said...

Somewhat off topic:

Do you find it strange that, with all the coverage the disaster in New Orleans is receiving, there has not been a single estimate of the number of people who have died there as a result of the storm? We have network news reports of babies dying, of elderly, wheelchair bound people dying, of people dying at the Superdome (with photos, in the latter two cases), but no overall casualty figure beyond Senator Landrieu's off the cuff figure of "thousands".

As I recall, at a comparable time after the tsunami, the press had estimates of the dead from, literally, the middle of nowhere. We've long since received casualty counts from Mississippi. With all three broadcast networks doubling the length of their nightly news broadcasts and devoting the entire hour to Katrina, why are there no comparable estimates for New Orleans?

Is it that the body count simply isn't high enough to be "sexy"? Am I being too paranoid, or not paranoid enough?

9/03/2005 05:32:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

how would jerry fawell and pat robertson feel about this?

America is pushing Israel to remove homes from ancient Israel for peace...

Now america is being punished for going against israel by destroying new orleans homes?

makes ya wonder...

9/03/2005 05:36:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

When is gaza going to get hit by a tidal wave?

9/03/2005 05:40:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

we arrive at Ward Churchill's Justice of Roosting Chickens. Professor Churchill argued, "On the morning of September 11, 2001, a few more chickens -- along with some half-million dead Iraqi children -- came home to roost in a very big way at the twin towers of New York's World Trade Center. Well, actually, a few of them seem to have nestled in at the Pentagon as well." It is the same theme of retribution visited on innocent people -- oops, "little Eichmanns" -- for the moral transgressions of America.

I kinda think this is true when i hear about suicide bombers (and attacks) in the arab countries

9/03/2005 05:42:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

Is Juan Cole actually extremely popular, or why exactly do we have to continue to hear his adolescentr reflections on anything? Pitting an idiot against idiots is a pretty barren contest.

Juan Cole clearly requires the kind of revelatory experience at this point in his development that could only come from, say, being pistol-whipped into abject terror in a blind alley in Baltimore. Falwell & followers are morons.

To which I append, obliquely perhaps, Stevens' poem "The Gray Room:"

Although you sit in a room that is gray,
Except for the silver
Of the straw-paper,
And pick
At your pale white gown;
Or lift one of the green beads
Of your necklace,
To let it fall;
Or gaze at your green fan
Printed with the red branches of a red willow;
Or, with one finger,
Move the leaf in the bowl--
The leaf that has fallen from the branches of the forsythia
Beside you...
What is all this?
I know how furiously your heart is beating.

9/03/2005 05:58:00 AM  
Blogger rhhardin said...

``Stay out of low-lying places'' might be a message, but it's not felt as moral enough, that is to say, as if it's been sent.

The feeling that a message has been sent is how language starts, so it's not as if it's a completely bogus mistake.

The apocalypse is full of signs and messages. The word means uncovering.

A message is like a disaster. You start over and listen.

9/03/2005 06:28:00 AM  
Blogger tweedblazer said...

The author of "Annabel Lee" is actually spelled "Edgar Allan Poe." A common enough mistake by, for example, the sort of persons who know nothing of poetry and thus attempt to bend it into service in their tendentious arguments.

9/03/2005 06:50:00 AM  
Blogger tweedblazer said...

The author of "Annabel Lee" is actually spelled "Edgar Allan Poe." A common enough mistake by, for example, the sort of persons who know nothing of poetry and thus attempt to bend it into service in their tendentious arguments.

9/03/2005 06:50:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

tweedblazer,

Help us out again... are you a 'twit' or is it spelled with an 'a'?

9/03/2005 07:39:00 AM  
Blogger Marcus Aurelius said...

There is a story in the Gospels.

Jesus asks those listening to them if they thought the people killed in the Tower of Siloam collapser were any more or less sinful than them. If the victims prayed more or less than themsevles.

The lesson is clear, the ways of God are much deeper than simple punishment and reward.

One last note. Rudy had multiple command posts set up pretty much within hours of the 9/11events. Have Nagin & Landrieu any up yet?

9/03/2005 07:47:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

re: pick your poison

Weather is not random, and an a meta-analysis of how and why it occurs does not require faith.

9/03/2005 07:47:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

AIDs is rare in Muslim nations...

Cedarford,

Huh?

9/03/2005 07:49:00 AM  
Blogger Marcus Aurelius said...

No, weather is not random like the popping of a select individual kernel of popcorn or the radioactive decay of a select individual molecule.

Weather is the combination of uncountable and when it comes down to it unknowable actors and forces. The fart emnating from a yak in Tibet may have been the first cause of Katrina.

I recall from a lecture during my college days that if we had the ability to put a weather sensor on the corner of every cubic meter of atmosphere up a mile a so, AND had the computing power to crunch all that data the horizon on accurate weather forecasts would be pushed out only to a week in advance (or so).

9/03/2005 07:54:00 AM  
Blogger LRFD said...

The corpses are not even cold, and naturally Juan Cole offers a false set of alternatives wherein God either is dead or absent or a liberal. Funny isn't it how they just happen to fit his philosophical beliefs? Surely there must be some explanations which conflict with Cole's worldview.

In fact I can think of one such explanation outside of Cole's three theories. It has the added benefit to Cole of discrediting both now and in the future the entire Neo-Conservative agenda. In the spirit of free inquiry and poor taste - values held dear by Cole - I'll post this devilish little syllogism that occurred to me while reading the world's reaction to Katrina in Reuters:

But I don't hold the same values as Cole, nor do I wish to adopt them. The little syllogism is just too devilish. All I'll do is give a hint regarding the major premise - posit that God does evil towards those who perform certain acts of goodness to punish them for their goodness.

God is not a sadist, but he does not play dice either. His natural laws allowed Katrina to form, and God allowed Katrina to hit the Gulf Coast for reasons beyond my understanding. However the tragedy in New Orleans was caused by very human nature and very human hubris. New Orleans descent into a war zone shakes neither my firm belief in the existence of God or his mercy; it does reinforce my belief in the evil within the heart of man.

Juan Cole has theorized without evidence for a political end, namely making conservative Christians look foolish. He judiciously picked one piece of evidence from a catastrophe extending hundreds of miles. He should have realized that reason can cut both ways. Bourbon St.'s survival might mean that God is unjust (justice being that which in accordance with traditional Western Christian morality) or impotent. It just as easily might mean that God shows mercy, even to those who deserve wrath – the heart of Christianity.

9/03/2005 07:58:00 AM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Falwell and Robertson and the Pope also 'deny our lord who redeems us' has returned, although IIPeter2:1 warns us its a 'damnable heresy' to do so in this day.

But what? Me worry? What does it matter if the righteousness that is Christ has returned with a New Name? Who but the intellectually crippled could POSSIBLY believe that religious folderol now, that we are all so informed and cool?

9/03/2005 08:29:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

Tweedblazer: Not only that, but U.S. Grant is not buried in Grant’s Tomb.
Do I win the irrelevance competition now or would you call it a draw?

9/03/2005 08:42:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Luke 13:3-5 (New International Reader's Version)

3 I tell you, no! But unless you turn away from your sins, you will all die too. 4 Or what about the 18 people in Siloam? They died when the tower fell on them. Do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you turn away from your sins, you will all die too."

9/03/2005 09:22:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Luke 12: 49-- Luke: 13:5


Jesus Will Separate People From One Another
49 "I have come to bring fire on the earth. How I wish the fire had already started! 50 But I have a baptism of suffering to go through. And I will be very troubled until it is completed.
51 "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you. I have come to separate people. 52 From now on there will be five members in a family, each one against the other. There will be three against two and two against three. 53 They will be separated. Father will turn against son and son against father. Mother will turn against daughter and daughter against mother. Mother in law will turn against daughter in law and daughter in law against mother in law."



Understanding What Is Happening

54 Jesus spoke to the crowd. He said, "You see a cloud rising in the west. Right away you say, 'It's going to rain.' And it does. 55 The south wind blows. So you say, 'It's going to be hot.' And it is. 56 You pretenders! You know how to understand the appearance of the earth and the sky. Why can't you understand the meaning of what is happening right now?
57 "Why don't you judge for yourselves what is right? 58 Suppose someone has a claim against you, and you are on your way to court. Try hard to settle the matter on the way. If you don't, that person may drag you off to the judge. The judge may turn you over to the officer. And the officer may throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the very last penny!"

Luke 13
Jesus Gives a Warning

1 Some people who were there at that time told Jesus about certain Galileans. Pilate had mixed their blood with their sacrifices.
2 Jesus said, "These people from Galilee suffered greatly. Do you think they were worse sinners than all the other Galileans? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you turn away from your sins, you will all die too. 4 Or what about the 18 people in Siloam? They died when the tower fell on them. Do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you turn away from your sins, you will all die too."

9/03/2005 09:33:00 AM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

AIDS is not rare in Muslim/Arab countries. They just don't report it or talk about it or tell people how to avoid it. I'm not even sure if they know how to diagnose it, since about the only time they talk about it is *after* someone has died in a particularly unattractive way.

I just love the tweedy person's snarky post about the spelling of Poe's name. It's such an exemplar that absolute tone-deaf superiority that you get from all the blue-state academics ... and then they never understand that they are held in total contempt by people who can actually make things happen in the Real World.

As opposed to applying for a Federal grant because no one will actually hire them to do a job, or writing a paper to be published in some obscure journal.

9/03/2005 09:36:00 AM  
Blogger Ari Tai said...

re: roosting chickens

'Tis a Greek tragedy, those things we do to ourselves, wittingly.

JuanC celibrates the preservation of the citizen and their enterprise, these commercial businesses yet to be driven out of New Orleans by the socialists(Bourbon Street, the convention center, dome, etc.) and damns what remains, the blue-collar, the poor, the adult-children dependent on others for their welfare and their predators.

A hopeful result may be that in this most corrupt and dangerous of U.S. cities, the vermin and the predators may be flushed out with the fouled water and waste, in the harsh light of day (and reconstruction, both physical and spiritual).

9/03/2005 09:47:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Amen, Ari Tai.

9/03/2005 10:08:00 AM  
Blogger Rick Ballard said...

Ari Tai,

I share your hope but flushing the vermin out needs to start with the officials who allowed this to build to this point. That would entail opening some old crypts and tossing skeletons in the Mississippi River. The current city, parish and state officials should also go in the river before starting to toss the police force in so that real clean up can begin.

Again, I truly hope that the flood flushes the vermin from the 9th Ward out to sea but unless the parish presidents, the levee boards and the mayor are among those flushed it's doubtful that a "new day" will come.

9/03/2005 10:42:00 AM  
Blogger PresbyPoet said...

God's response?

You ask Why

Don't ask why.
When death intrudes.
When tsunami strikes.
When evil strides triumphant.
Instead I ask you My beloved.
Do you trust Me fully?

I allow evil and death.
I allow danger and disaster.
Pain and suffering oft result.
I offer you real freedom.
You can choose whom you will serve.
Will you follow Me or be the devil's pawn.

"Why" is far beyond comprehension.
Yet "why" is easy to understand.
If you truly love you give freedom.
Prodigal's father lets him go knowing son can die.
Yet patiently he waits for beloved son's return.
He gave him freedom to fail on order to succeed.

It's not that in Genesis garden myth
devil won when Eve the "apple" bit
and Adam joined her in the bitter fall.
A myth that seems to say
twas mistake to offer freedom they chose
it was their fault and I was not involved.

You think that I am a distant God.
I love you more than any parent
who lets go a bicycle so child
can learn to ride like the wind.
I sent My son and came for you.
To save you from your sin.

Death didn't/doesn't win.
Evil's triumph is not the end.
Hope is real and true.
I love you far beyond your knowing.
Do you love and trust Me?
I give you freedom to come to Me.

What is your choice?
© Presbypoet, January 4, 2005

First written after the tsunami, posted again on August 31. on the blog.
http://poemsfromgod.blogspot.com/2005/08/you-ask-why.html

9/03/2005 11:06:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

1. Reality does not exist.
Or:

2. The NY Times uses the conceit to punish GWB for unforgiveable failings.
Or:

3. God does not actually object to the NY Times having a good time punishing GWB occasionally by Ignoring Reality.
---
. NY Times Frontpage.
The president acknowledged again today that his administration had failed to promptly help many of the hurricane's most desperate victims.

. Times "Story".
"...the president acknowledged again today that his administration had failed to promptly help many of the hurricane's most desperate victims and promised to resurrect this city and devastated coastal areas of several states."

. What He Said.
"The magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities,"
he said, slightly exaggerating the stricken land area in a radio broadcast before television cameras in the White House Rose Garden.
"The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans. And that is unacceptable."
. SLIMES

9/03/2005 11:24:00 AM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

Mess tho it has always been (tho never like now), the 'spirit' city--what we hear when we hear the name--is pretty much what America wants it to be. I grew up in Baton Rouge and Lafayette (from baby to 18 yr-old). New Orleans was high school's lost weekend. We went down there looking for trouble, always found it, and sometimes it even followed us back home (but the farm guys had vet antibiotics, so parents never got phone calls). Temporary, escapable exoticas ain't all bad, as a psycho-socio-whatchamcallit, for midwesterners to have at the backs of their minds. Miami's Caribbean experience is all Madison Avenue--but New Orleans is the real voodoo McCoy. I can trace it only from the 60s (19 that is), but listen to the city making Mark Twain from a young Sam Clements (scroll halfway, see letter to sister, pretending that on his first stroll thru the city, he had no idea it was Mardis Gras). Yeah, right!

9/03/2005 11:40:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

I had an Uncle Bob that was big on Vet Cures for humanoids.
Dad was a Druggist, so Bob always raised his Bp.
Very interesting guy, however.
No trouble hearing his opinion.
On Anything.
Bob's dad was 80 something when I was a kid.
Lived on the farm.
I was impressed.
FWIW

9/03/2005 11:56:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Twat did Sirius Say?

9/03/2005 12:01:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Aristides said...
"re: pick your poison
Weather is not random, and an a meta-analysis of how and why it occurs does not require faith.
"
---
Is that why we are so darned good at predicting it?
...and why Bush should have signed Kyoto?

9/03/2005 12:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"The fart emanating from a yak in Tibet may have been the first cause of Katrina."
---
My Freshman year, I came home from College all excited about some behavioral Psych Course I was taking.

Spun a yarn to mom about how every detail of every second on our timelines through life could result in apocalyptic results, since it was one long chain of reactions dependent on that timeline of events.

Farm Girl Mom said,
"What about stoplights and such?"

9/03/2005 12:13:00 PM  
Blogger Lesley said...

In desperate and tragic times such as these, for the faithful the question is NOT: where is God? The question is: where is man? We are called upon by our Creator to take action on behalf of our fellow man thus, we shall mourn our dead and comfort the living. Volunteer, donate, pray. "Lord, I want to be in that number, when the Saints go marching in." Let's roll.

9/03/2005 12:17:00 PM  
Blogger WichitaBoy said...

Aristides,

Weather is not random

That's quite the assertion. I can scarcely think of anything more random and less predictable than when a hurricane will occur and where it will strike. Thank you for proving my point.

When you flip a coin, is that "random"? When you roll a die, is that "random"? When a roulette ball rolls, is that "random" or do you control it? Good luck playing that philosophy in Vegas.

"Randomness" is a far deeper concept than is generally realized. Essentially religious, as I said. Einstein, famously, did not believe in it ("God does not play dice") even though quantum mechanics seems to require it.

9/03/2005 12:23:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/03/2005 12:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

wichitaboy,
Actually, Aristedes is a Card Counter when he's gambling.
But that's for
REAL MONEY!

9/03/2005 12:29:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

You Ask Why

9/03/2005 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger Buddy Larsen said...

She was probably wondering if you were going to be able to manage that "green=go, red=stop" thing.

9/03/2005 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

pork rinds for allah said...

how would jerry fawell and pat robertson feel about this?

America is pushing Israel to remove homes from ancient Israel for peace...

Now america is being punished for going against israel by destroying new orleans homes?

makes ya wonder...

5:36 AM
//////////////////////
christian conservatives these days generally hang to the right side of the Israeli establishment. So if Sharon can't keep the right and in Israel together and Netanyahu gets reelected or if Hamas is good as their word and uses the Isaeli withdrawal to move up their guns and keeps up the fireworks and Netanyahu gets reelected--then the US Christian conservatives will go with Netanyahu. Right now, they mourn with Israel over the loss of land.

9/03/2005 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

Podhoretz at The Corner:

"With the local and state governments of Louisiana collapsing both tactically and emotionally, there was nowhere for that sense of frustration to flow other than toward the federal government. And there it will remain until the president succeeds in convincing the nation that he has taken personal responsibility for the management of this unprecedented disaster. At which point the responsibility might well begin to flow back again to the local and state authorities whose negligence in the days preceding the catastrophe border on the homicidally negligent. But not until then."

Should have written:...At which point the very concepts of local and state responsibility will be a little closer to death, a little closer to obliteration in the minds of most Americans, than they were before Katrina.

At which point FEMA and DHS's budgets will be doubled.

9/03/2005 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

Lesley said...

Let's roll.
///////////
Yes. The difference between God Wrath and God's Testing... is how you react.

9/03/2005 01:22:00 PM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

God does not play dice...

Or maybe He does and, unlike us mere mortals, knows it isn't a gamble.

We see singularity, and assume randomness. But occurances seen over time will reveal probabilities and patterns. Things only look like chaos seen up close, because our understanding is time-constricted. Stand back. Take a very long view.

9/03/2005 01:30:00 PM  
Blogger Common Cents said...

Question for the attornies out there. Louisiana is the only American state whose laws are based on the Napoleonic code. The rest of the states' laws are decendents of English common law.

How much of the coruption is based on this difference?

9/03/2005 02:03:00 PM  
Blogger WichitaBoy said...

common cents,

I'd be hesitant to ascribe the corruption to the legal system, but I have no hesitation in ascribing it to the different Catholic French culture which developed in Louisiana, particularly Southern Louisiana. The "normal" American culture is the Protestant culture which ends somewhat north of Alexandria, LA.

It is the French culture, on the other hand, which gives Southern Louisiana so many truly great contributions to our lives, such as wonderful food, wonderful architecture, jazz, and Mardi Gras. Protestant culture tends to range betwee the mundane and the excruciatingly mundane.

9/03/2005 02:09:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I get it:
Buddy's French!

9/03/2005 02:34:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This is Pierre's Last Update: Hope he and his family are doing OK.
Wednesday, August 31, 2005
As many of you know, Ross has been in the Superdome in New Orleans since noon yesterday working alongside Acadian Ambulance medics to help the sick and injured refuged there from Hurricane Katrina.

He was able to get through to me by satellite phone at 4 AM today. I want to share his news with you, in the hopes that you will press your government officials and even the White House to take action as soon as possible.

Ross arrived at the Superdome at noon yesterday, as more and more people were being brought in after being rescued from floodwaters. He said that countless people had seen their family members drown right beside them. When he arrived, several emergency helicopters had been sitting on the helipad outside the Superdome for 2 hours...and no one was directing that patients be put on them to be evacuated. Ross took charge and started getting people on and helicopters out.

There are now 20,000 people inside the Superdome. The only medical personnel at the Superdome are Acadian Ambulance paramedics and EMT's and a small team of doctors and nurses from New Mexico. They are exhausted understaffed and out of medical supplies. The only current source of medical supplies are those that Acadian is able to ferry in. Dialysis equipment is no longer functioning. Sick people are getting sicker. 30 people have now died in the Superdome, including one suicide. Ross said there have been at least 2 rapes.

There is no plan to provide for an evacuation of the 30,000 people in the Superdome. There is no plan to evacuate the people trapped in their hotels and houses (who are almost or completely out of food and water)---when the floodwaters were still low enough, these people were simply told to "go to the Superdome". Now they are sitting outside the Superdome because there is no room inside.

Satellite phones are not working very well, and the officials inside the Dome are having trouble calling out for assistance.
New Orleans is in a desperate state of chaos including, and the Federal Government needs to step in at a higher level than FEMA and the National Guard: we need the resources that the US Armed Forces can bring to bear.

I am writing, actually BEGGING, you to contact any elected official you know at any level to urge the White House and Pentagonto to take immediate action to step in at a greater level. Many more lives will be lost in the next few days if action is not taken.
. Pink Flamingo

9/03/2005 02:57:00 PM  
Blogger Spiney Widgmo said...

Aristides and WichitaBoy,
Random means many things. Weather can be considered a random process. This randomness can arise from the sheer quantity of unmeasurable inputs.
Over short time frames, it is highly correlated. This allows meaningful predictions.
Weather is not like the roll of the dice, where the next roll can not be predicted. Weather is more like blackjack, the exact cards that follow are not known, but knowledge of the past cards allows meaningful bets to be placed.

9/03/2005 04:08:00 PM  
Blogger Anointiata Delenda Est said...

I think the The Standard Model is currently the best explanation of what happens in the world.

And if you ever get intellectually uppity, remember the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

ADE

9/03/2005 04:27:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

"Randomness" is a far deeper concept than is generally realized.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think the term Wichitaboy and Spiney are looking for is chaotic. Ask a cryptographer if you want to know the difference between the two.

9/03/2005 04:39:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

Wretchard are you talking about (((Juan Cole))) who considers the Iraq war a "Vast Ring Wing Conspircy" and labels 'Iraq The Model' by Omar and his brother, some sort of 'covert US intelligence operation?' Are you talking about the Ultra Left-Wing Juan Cole who blames the US for of all the problems in the Middle East? The same Juan Cole who tends to fabricate facts to prove his point? Juan Cole is right up there with Ward "16th Indian" Churchill. Take what Cole says with a grain of salt.

"For a trained historian, even in Middle Eastern studies, Juan Cole is scandalously incompetent when it comes to cause and effect..." -Martin Kramer

Making Cole-slaw of history

"...Cole is following in the tradition of Tailgunner Joe McCarthy– one conspiratorial allegation follows another." -Austin Bay

Juan Cole knocked Cold

"...Cole didn't misspell a word or post a broken link; he invented a rationale for 9/11 that bin Laden himself couldn't possibly have claimed..." -Tim Blair

Cole's mistakes

"...Cole, who led the lobby to clear Saddam of any ties with terrorism, believes that a group of Jewish "neo-conservatives" largely runs U.S. policy toward the Middle East. His recurrent theory is that a nebulous 'pro-Likud' cabal controls the U.S. government from a small number of key positions in the Executive Branch... Cole has been named one of the eight most biased professors in America..." -Steven Plaut

Old Juan Cole: A Very Sad Soul

Satire on Juan Cole

[and]

Errors on London Bombers by Cole

9/03/2005 04:40:00 PM  
Blogger Aristides said...

re: randomness

Ask yourself why there is such a thing as tornado alley, or why Montana does not see hurricanes, or why Miami does not get lake-effect snow. The answer to these questions should elucidate why weather is not random.

Very few things actually are.

9/03/2005 05:12:00 PM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

Senior Kuwaiti Official: "Katrina is a Wind of Torment and Evil from Allah Sent to This American Empire"


http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD97705

9/03/2005 05:29:00 PM  
Blogger Rick Ballard said...

Best wishes and prayers for our troops as they begin combat operations in New Orleans.

I hope they drive the vermin into the river where they can drown hugging a flat screen TV.

9/03/2005 05:30:00 PM  
Blogger trangbang68 said...

A few thoughts on judgement and catastrophe.Jesus said the "rain falls on the just and the unjust".In other words there is mystery with God on why bad things happen to good people and why bad things don't happen to bad people.Eternity provides the answer and if Jesus' words were true regarding justice and judgement then the human debris in New Orleans await their just rewards.I am speaking of the criminal element.
While I'm not an acolyte of Falwell and Robertson,their intemperate remarks are based on the Biblical notion that nations are judged based on their actions.Deuteronomy 28 and Leviticus 26 expound on this.Disobedience to God ,especially in light of revelation invites cursing,futility and loss of national stature.The case can be made that America has lost much of its spiritual vitality because of moral failings.The breakdown of family,widespread perilous debt ,the immigration problems all bode ill for our future.
Judgement in a Biblical sense is the natural consequence of certain actions.Hosea accused Israel;"you have sown the wind you'll reap the whirlwind"
When crime,depravity ,thuggism,etc are tolerated and celebrated as in the ninth ward and other crapholes in New Orleans,don't be surprized when the rats come out of their lair.
Cedarford,the judgement factor in AIDS is not a bolt of lightning,but the natural consequence of disease ridden men filling the bathhouses of San Francisco or the corrupt streets of Thailand.There are predominently muslim countries in Africa that have high infection rates.The only country that has succeeded in turning back the plague is Uganda guided by Christian revival and abstinance

9/03/2005 05:33:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Obviously, GWB should have done this the day after the Hurricane, for Optimal Results.
...and by this time he may already have been run out of Office for
. Waging a Racist War.
Against THE REAL Saints of New Orleans.
---
“This place is going to look like Little Somalia,” Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, commander of the Louisiana National Guard’s Joint Task Force told Army Times Friday as hundreds of armed troops under his charge prepared to launch a massive citywide security mission from a staging area outside the Louisiana Superdome. “We’re going to go out and take this city back. This will be a combat operation to get this city under control.”

9/03/2005 05:53:00 PM  
Blogger WichitaBoy said...

Aristides,

From your last post, it would appear that you are confusing "random" with "having the uniform distribution". They are not the same. A random variable can in principle have any conceivable distribution. In practice it is common to assume either the uniform or the Gaussian distribution, but there are many other common ones. "Chaotic" means "extremely sensitive to initial conditions" which weather indeed is, in addition to being random.

9/03/2005 05:56:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This is Not a Game .
While the sound of gunfire had been common in the streets of New Orleans for much of the week, it seemed to taper off. Michael D. Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said that much of the earlier violence had been by youths with guns. "Some of these kids think this is a game," he said. "They somehow got their hands on a weapon. They think they are playing Pac-Man or something and shooting at people. Those kinds of hot spots will continue, but I can tell you they will learn very quickly the 82nd Airborne does not like to be shot at. This is not a game."

9/03/2005 05:58:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Aristedes is subject to Random Conversations on occasion.

9/03/2005 06:01:00 PM  
Blogger Rick Ballard said...

Doug,

Democrat Gov. Blanco order the LA NG to hunt down and kill poor, black teenagers. Those troops aren't federalized and the President has no authority over their actions.

Posse comitatus, don'tchaknow. This is a 100% Democrat action.

9/03/2005 06:02:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

So, counting cards does not mean you can predict when, and how much you will win?

9/03/2005 06:02:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Thanks, Tweedblazer, for pointing out my spelling mistake in Poe's name.

Historically "natural philosophy" and theology were part of the same broad discipline until perhaps the 16th and 17th century and this conjunction meant that empirical investigation always had to be judged against the yardstick of heresy, not simply as against Christianity but also as against older beliefs like Pythagoreanism. For this reason, there was immense resistance to the concepts of zero and a void. When men could ask "why" without first considering the theological implications of their answer it was the beginning of a fundamental shift in science.

But little by little and almost unnoticed, the old conjunction between theology -- this time in its modern guises -- and science has reasserted itself. Michael Crichton very eloquently describes the modern theological intrusions of environmentalism into the debate on DDT. And so people like Professor Churchill and some environmentalists begin to locate empirical phenomena within their own unconscious framework, yet imagine themselves to be 'modern men' of the 21st century. "Oh Brave New World, that hath such people in it!"

9/03/2005 06:03:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Rick,
I am confused:
She FINALLY did it?
...and what about the active duty troops?

9/03/2005 06:04:00 PM  
Blogger Rick Ballard said...

Doug,

The Regulars will pick up the grunt work - hauling and standing around looking like soldiers. The President probably has an Executive Order prepared for his signature suspending Posse Comitatus and federalizing the Guard but he won't sign unless the Guard can't handle the action.

Blanco gave the "shoot to kill" order yesterday. I havn't seen the written order yet but you can bet the ranch that the Gen who gaver the Army Times interview has a signed copy in his wallet.

A large portion of the timing problem with relief has to do with Blanco holding off on that order. She didn't even want the NG to carry bullets. They told her if they didn't have clear ROEs she could make her own damn deliveries. That's also the reason that order couldnt be maintained within the Superdome and at the Convention Center.

She and the mayor are a just the type of pols that NO deserves.

I wish the LA NG very good hunting this evening. There is no law without order and restoration of order can be very nasty business.

9/03/2005 06:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

What the?
...Salevaa Fauli Atisanoe at the Superdome, and Democrat Gov. Blanco in England?

9/03/2005 06:21:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

Cedarfard: AIDs is a rare disease in the Muslim part of the population. So the two goofy Jesus-lovers may be wrong about God having any involvement in mishaps, diseases, natural disasters. Or - God prefers Muslims to Christians.


If this is true, I'd be more inclined to subscribe to the theory that it's not God's involvement and preference for Muslims, but man's. More specifically, Muslim men. Given the behavior pattern of Mussulmen towards Christians and Jews, it wouldn't surprise in the least if it was found out that the real spawn in the AIDs pandemic in Africa is the jihadi Mussulmen.

9/03/2005 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

So what happens if the 82nd is fired upon, and Bush has not yet signed?

9/03/2005 06:28:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Killa,
Is that a long way of saying
"Up Yours?"

9/03/2005 06:29:00 PM  
Blogger Mətušélaḥ said...

;)

9/03/2005 06:43:00 PM  
Blogger Rick Ballard said...

Doug,

Any member of the 82nd who is fired upon would have the right to defend himself. He would also have the right to use lethal force if he felt himself in imminent danger or if he thought someone else was in imminent danger.

They just can't organize and conduct hunting parties.

I think killa was just assessing the probability that Arafat was Case 1 for the HIV/AIDS epidemic. It's logical, I remember pictures of Khadaffi and him with their arms around a sickly looking goat back in the late '70's. And all those rumors about his escapades with his 'body'guards seem to have some credibility.

9/03/2005 06:45:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

C4: "Tax Cuts for the Rich"
. US media slams hurricane response Suprise, Suprise.

"One thing is certain: if President Bush and his Republican Congressional leaders want to deal responsibly with a historic disaster of this scale, they must finally try the path of honestly shared national sacrifice," The New York Times said.
"If they respond by passing a few emergency measures and then falling back on their plans to enact more tax cuts, America will have to confront the fact that it is stuck with leaders who neither know, nor care, how to lead," the influential daily said.
"The annihilation in New Orleans is an irrefutable sign that the national tax-cut party is over. So is the idea that American voters cannot be required to accept sacrifice or inconvenience, no matter how great the crisis. This country is better than that."

9/03/2005 06:46:00 PM  
Blogger Heraclitus said...

One of the pleasant conceits that those whose faith lies in Science is that Religion and Science are opposites. Yet, even a cursory historical review shows that every Culture's Science grows out of that Culture's underlaying formative myth base (Religion).

Science simply re-states those founding myths in another form. For example:

"Force in Western man's mechanical world picture is as Will in his soul picture and as infinite Godhead in his World picture". That is, it is completely possible to have a Science that does not contain the concept of force as dis the Classical Culture.

An interesting field of study might be cultural comparisons using Science as a measuring stick. For example, given phenomenon such as Paracelsus, the father of pharmaceuticals, who one might consider as an alchemist, one might suggest Western man is in fact closer in life feeling to the Arabian culture rather than the Classical as Nietzsche observed.

For those whose faith is in Science there lies a portentous, unstated, implication in Nietzsche's famous utterance "God is dead". Was in fact Nietzsche not asserting that the step dogma to religion, Science itself, was in fact dead?

9/03/2005 06:48:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Yeah, old Arafat never did look too wholesome.
And he was so attached to that checked skirt he wore on his head.

9/03/2005 06:49:00 PM  
Blogger Bob Smith said...

Was in fact Nietzsche not asserting that the step dogma to religion, Science itself, was in fact dead?

Science is not dead, but empiricism is in for a very cold shower.

9/03/2005 07:24:00 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

Its funny how people will isolate one event and then use it for their purposes.

Katrina is just one hurricane of thousands to hit over recorded history. More are yet to come.

The North American continent thanks to the Gulf of Mexico has the most violent weather in the world and the greatest climactic swings.

Thats the way it is.

Some people's fixation on Katrina as the symbol of the Apocalypse is reminiscent of the mental gyrations of the meth head who has to get their next hit. Who wants their news delivered by coke heads who are on their own high?

9/03/2005 07:59:00 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

Cedarford:

"But AIDs is rare in Muslim nations, while common in Christian ones"

Yeah right. The UN says AIDs is just as prevalent in Saudi Arabia as elsewhere. But because its not publicly discussed, its getting worse.

9/03/2005 08:02:00 PM  
Blogger The Beak Doctor said...

Nietszche wasn't saying that science is dead, because science doesn't pretend to offer a total explanation for life, the universe and everything. If science becomes dogma, it's no longer science.

9/03/2005 08:05:00 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

Wretchard:

"Historically "natural philosophy" and theology were part of the same broad discipline until perhaps the 16th and 17th century and this conjunction meant that empirical investigation always had to be judged against the yardstick of heresy, not simply as against Christianity but also as against older beliefs like Pythagoreanism. For this reason, there was immense resistance to the concepts of zero and a void. When men could ask "why" without first considering the theological implications of their answer it was the beginning of a fundamental shift in science."

Very interesting. I wonder if there was a time when empiricism ruled and then subjectivism was injected? Did the latter arise with tyrants and kings as a means of bondage? Or have the two always been intertwined?

The dead end of socialism was a unique 20th century detour, but have there been others? Were the Mongols able to conquer due to the passivity of large populations due to severe vassalage? How is this related to the idea of viruses and severe lethality?

9/03/2005 08:13:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

BTW,

Justice Rehnquist just died.

9/03/2005 08:21:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

Rehnquist's death becomes not simply a human tragedy for his family, nor the case of another old man dying or even of an SC Justice requiring replacement, but a disturbance in our comos. The lesson to me of the last few days is that nothing is exempt from politics, not nature nor disease nor individual human folly.

Taking up on my previous comment, the modern day "litmus test" is very similar to the old time "heresy test". What is truth in such circumstances?

9/03/2005 08:27:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

Cedarfard: AIDs is a rare disease in the Muslim part of the population.

AIDs must be very rare in the Muslim world (assuming it's not covered-up). There has one been one high profile Arab to have most likely died from it - Yasser Arafat.

[11/7/04 JNW]:

Based on the symptoms Yasser Arafat is suffering from, as well as accounts of his rampantly homosexual past... medical experts believe the blood-soaked Muslim terror chief is dying from complications related to the AIDS virus... Arafat has been hospitalized... for more than a week with blotchy skin, a low platelet count that is affecting his immune system, decreased mental capacity and a considerable loss of weight – all indicators of the presence of AIDS. His homosexual tendencies have been attested to by numerous sources, including a now infamous set of surveillance videos taken by his former communist allies in Romania showing Arafat in perverted encounters with his bodyguards... In his book "Red Horizons", Pacepa unveils Arafat as an insatiable homosexual by recalling a telephone conversation with Constantin Munteaunu, a general assigned to the PLO... "I just called the microphone monitoring center to ask about the 'Fedayee,'" Arafat's code name, explained Munteaunu. "After the meeting with the Comrade, he went directly to the guest house and had dinner. At this very moment, the 'Fedayee' is in his bedroom making love to his bodyguard. The one I knew was his latest lover. He's playing tiger again. The officer monitoring his microphones connected me live with the bedroom, and the squawling almost broke my eardrums. Arafat was roaring like a tiger, and his lover yelping like a hyena."

Intelligence analyst John Loftus told ABC... that the CIA had known for years Arafat was infected with AIDS, and it was largely due to this fact Washington had urged Israel not to eliminate him... Israel Insider notes that while "homosexuality is rife in the Arab world, it is at least officially consider a sin and a crime, and regarded - especially in fundamentalist circles - as a mark of great shame and depravity.
"
Homosexual Arafat said dying of AIDS

9/03/2005 08:42:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

Paracelsus
An interesting field of study might be cultural comparisons using Science as a measuring stick. For example, given phenomenon such as Paracelsus, the father of pharmaceuticals, who one might consider as an alchemist, one might suggest Western man is in fact closer in life feeling to the Arabian culture rather than the Classical as Nietzsche observed.
//////////////////
well popular culture in the west these days outside of the christian subcultures is definitely classical in that it ridden with gods. We live today in what's called a post modern culture.

Paracelsus dual interest in Pharmacy and Alchemy maps over well today in that the tools developed for Pharmacy shift over well to materials reasearch --or Alchemy as it was known.

However, Paracelsus dates are not classical but rather early Rennassance. He was born in 1493 a year after Columbus sailed for the new world.

For this reason...

I'm not sure I understand how you get from "[Paracelsus] who one might consider as an alchemist" to this conclusion "Western man is in fact closer in life feeling to the Arabian culture".

Except if you're broadly alluding to the many years that Newton whiled away on alchemy and the arian heresy--and you're somehow linking the two. Nietzche's father was a German minister at a time when all germany had abandoned the foundational belief that Jesus is fully God,(as well as fully man.) In the 300's AD this was called the Arian heresy after an Alexandrian name Arius. The Nicean Creed dates from this period.

And while it is the case that up until the enlightenment the west abandoned the arian heresy. This is not the case for the moslem world. The moslem world rather embraced it.

So if you mean that both moslems and modern westerners are practioners of the arian heresy--there has been some truth to this since the Enlightenment.

However, there is a problem here.

As can be seen in the relationship between Nietzche and his father the arian heresy leaves ones theology very vulnerable to the claims of atheism.

the liberal churches that practice Arianism are in steep decline in the USA and are nearly extinct in europe. Pastors who don't believe in God have a real hard time holding on to their congregations.

The trends these days in christendom are back to classical Trinitarianism. While the trends in the larger culture are back to pre Christian era paganism of the type that Old Testatment prophets used to rail against.

9/03/2005 08:46:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Family mourns as fate catches up with notorious female fugutive .
Was she struck down for murder, adultery, or her sexual orientation?
Kazuko Fukuda was never really good when it came to managing time.

Just days before she could have ensured her freedom forever, she managed to fall into the hands of the law enforcers chasing her and ended up slapped with a murder conviction that carried a penalty of life imprisonment.

And, just when it seemed she'd get a bit of a break and had some hope of eventually spending time with her beloved family, the woman made famous for being on the run for 15 years and getting caught mere days before the statue of limitations on her case ran out, was beaten by time again as she collapsed following a stroke and died.

"She loved her kids more than most parents do. She would have been shattered that she was unable to spend her dying days living with her son," Shigemasa Tanaka, Fukuda's lawyer, tells Asahi Geino.

Saki added that in the days immediately before her sentencing, Fukuda had even jokingly compared herself to Masumi Hayashi, a convicted murderer now on Death Row for killing four people by poisoning a pot of curry served at a 1998 neighborhood festival. "I remember she told me, 'You'll have to get along to the Wakayama Curry Killer case now,'" Saki says.

However, once the conviction was confirmed, Fukuda became disappointed and appealed the ruling to the higher courts. Fukuda's claim was that she had been involved in a lesbian relationship with her victim, who she killed in a crime of passion rather than simply an act of cold-blooded murder.

9/03/2005 08:54:00 PM  
Blogger ledger said...

William Rehnquist was a good man. He will be hard to replace. May he rest in peace.

I wonder if Bush will wait until Roberts is confirmed before nominating another US Supreme Court Justice.

9/03/2005 09:02:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

HILLARY [Mark R. Levin]
. contributes her wisdom to the situation. .
"I want to go after the oil companies and the oil speculators and the manipulators of the money, because they're the ones who I think are really behind this," Clinton told an audience in Elmira Heights on Thursday. "You have a hurricane, and all of a sudden you see prices going up like that. That has . . . everything to do with people trying to make money off the backs of this tragedy."

9/03/2005 09:07:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

ledger,

Clearly the President's political strength will be a key factor in who he can get confirmed. How Katrina interacts with the process will be interesting, because I think it has weakened both sides of the political spectrum. On the one hand, it is hard to argue that the Federal Government has covered itself with glory; but on the other hand people looking at New Orleans will be reluctant to endorse more of the same liberal policy-making which produced the underclass which they gimpsed. But if it has weakened both sides it has also made them more militant. As the Left shrills, so too does the Right sometimes, if only to keep up.

9/03/2005 09:10:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Ledger,
Maybe he'll sneak in Bork while they're distracted by
Katrina Kerfuffle Syndrome.

9/03/2005 09:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Wretchard,
My 6:46 PM Media Link
Says it proves we should go back to fighting the
War On Poverty!

9/03/2005 09:14:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

While reading accounts in Foreign Press, seeing that reporting is 180 off course in terms of what Katrina says about us,
I realized that folks like the Guv and the Mayor really do have a lot of blood on their hands.
But they will never be held accountable.
Even in print.

9/03/2005 09:17:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"I wonder if Bush will wait until Roberts is confirmed before nominating another US Supreme Court Justice."
---
He shouldn't:
Rogers is very popular with the public, and all advantage should be taken of the spectacle of the Dems trying to Demonize him.

9/03/2005 09:22:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/03/2005 09:29:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Well, yeah, he's brilliant!
. Roberts's Worldview Set Early
Friends say the seven years Supreme Court nominee spent at Harvard ended up reinforcing his conservative views rather than undermining them.
.• Red-State Democrats Tilt to Yes on Roberts

9/03/2005 09:30:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Praise like this is bad news for the nearly 30 liberal special interest groups calling on Democrats to block Roberts's rise to the Supreme Court.
But it is good politics for Democrats such as Conrad who are running for reelection in states that President Bush won, according to several senators and strategists.

9/03/2005 09:32:00 PM  
Blogger trangbang68 said...

A thought I had while talking to my wife.If I recall in the last Louisiana governor's race,Bobbie Jindal,the Republican had an excellent chance to win.As usual there were allegations of fraud in New Orleans which may have given the current non-entity in Baton Rouge the win.A bit of irony there if election fraud in New Orleans came back to haunt the city.
The Rehnquist demise coupled with Sheehan,racial demogogery in light of Katrina will make for a category 5 political hurricane in the days ahead.Bush will need to learn to communicate effectively in the eye of the media storm.

9/03/2005 09:37:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Tony, rwe:
U-2 to photograph GulfCoast storm damage The Air Force has dispatched a U-2 surveillance plane on a 12-hour mission to take high-resolution photographs of the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina’s devastating landfall Monday. _____ (more) _____

9/03/2005 09:41:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

Wretchard
but on the other hand people looking at New Orleans will be reluctant to endorse more of the same liberal policy-making which produced the underclass which they gimpsed.
////////////////
Everyone watched Heraldo last night. His performance was just this side of hysterical. Today, he said the difference is night and day. Things are moving along just fine. He went on to talk about plugging the dike.

By next week the foul stink that came out of new orleans as the black underclass exited will have seemed natural as breathing. Likely too we'll start hearing stories of trouble following that group of people on their journey.

Lord have mercy on the people who take them in.

9/03/2005 09:51:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

"The argument that girls will provide a new viewpoint in the classroom is probably valid, although I certainly can't imagine what points will be viewed,"
he wrote in the newspaper, the Torch.
He said he would not want "the football team waiting on the sidelines for practice while the girls finish their field hockey or whatever.
Game times should be interesting, too.
Imagine the five cheerleaders on the sidelines, with block 'L's' on their chests, screaming 'Give me a 'L.'
Give me a break!"

9/03/2005 09:52:00 PM  
Blogger wretchard said...

trangbang68,

"media storm" -- Interesting phrase. I just got an email from the Project Defense Alternatives, providing links suggesting Bush did not having enough military on hand because of the "War On Iraq". That's the problem, right? Not enough military. Then there's Kanye West who says on an MSNBC fundraiser that "We already realize a lot of people that could help are at war right now, fighting another way -- and they've given them permission to go down and shoot us!"

It's the old Catch22. The military is a fascist organization. Why isn't there enough of it? Send the Guard in, but please don't issue them live ammo. Stop the looters. Hello Kanye West? Hunt down Al Qaeda. But don't cross any international borders.

So what is the message in this mass of logical contradiction. How do you parse it? One mistake, I think, is to take statements at face value when they consist entirely of dilemmas. What did Yogi Berra say? When you get to a fork in the road, take it.

But there is a meta-message, something along the lines of 'we hate you'. And the question is how do you respond to that?

9/03/2005 09:56:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

wretchard said...

trangbang68,

But there is a meta-message, something along the lines of 'we hate you'. And the question is how do you respond to that?

9:56 PM
////////////////////
the way Arial Sharon puts it: "Dogs Bark But The Caravan Rolls On:

I saw this on a pretty good thread over at free republic.

I just left a baseball game in OKC and sat in front of an FBI agent and talked with him during the game. According to him, NO police dept is authorized 2100 officers. Before the storm, normal attrition had reduced the force to 1800 active officers on duty. He stated there are now less than 800 NOPD officers (1000+ have quit). Many have just walked off the job and disappeared. Others have joined the street gangs. Federal law enforcement is heavily involved and many of the NOPD will be in jail when it is all over. Federal SWAT teams have been operating for several days and "taking out the trash". He says there is much going on behind the scenes that most people will never know about, but the house cleaning has been underway for several days and progress has been substantial.
It will be interesting to see what the MSM picks up and how they report this (if they ever do)

regards - red
29 posted on 09/03/2005 9:42:09 PM PDT by rednek (if it isn't large caliber, it isn't worth carrying)

9/03/2005 10:11:00 PM  
Blogger gumshoe1 said...

has to be said,don't it.


"Nietzsche is dead."

9/03/2005 10:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

It's Penance Time for Telling the Truth:
Denny Must Pay!
---
By 4 p.m., Hastert had reached the Capitol, eager to explain his tardiness and to try again to show his solidarity with Katrina's victims. The Indiana fundraiser, he told reporters, had been on his schedule "for a long, long time."

"Yes, I went to a charity auction," Hastert continued. "I took one of my cars and sold it for tens of thousands of dollars. And that money will go to hurricane relief efforts."

9/03/2005 10:16:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

As it happened, La Lumiere enrolled its first three black students in Roberts's sophomore year.
Two of them were Paris and Neil Barclay, gifted brothers recruited by the school's priest from a lower working-class neighborhood near Chicago.

Their presence, however, did not foster much political awareness. As an eighth-grader at a Catholic grade school, Paris Barclay said, he got into trouble for wearing a black armband. But after arriving at La Lumiere, he said, "I was really focusing on achieving and keeping my head down. . . . I didn't want to seem separate and apart. I was struggling to compete with these Lacoste [shirts and] blue blazers, and I was there with my Penney's stuff, trying to fit in."

If Roberts had gone to Michigan City's public high school, he would have been exposed directly to racial tensions bruising the community.
---
So Roberts had the perverse experience of going to a school where blacks acted like, and were treated as, fellow humans.
How Strange.
So he was left "unaware."

9/03/2005 10:26:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

Thousands Remain To Be Evacuated(still no state of emergency in LA)
Washington Post ^ | 9-4-2005 | By Manuel Roig-Franzia and Spencer Hsu


Posted on 09/03/2005 9:07:35 PM PDT by aft_lizard


Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

"The federal government stands ready to work with state and local officials to secure New Orleans and the state of Louisiana," White House spokesman Dan Bartlett said. "The president will not let any form of bureaucracy get in the way of protecting the citizens of Louisiana."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1476864/posts

9/03/2005 10:32:00 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

I saw this over at FreeRepublic and this too makes sense:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1476864/posts

Wake up folks to what is really going on here. The Democratic power structure in Louisiana and New Orleans realizes that the massive evacuation means that New Orleans will not have the population (and the voters) it had a week ago for decades. People evacuated from NO will resettle and put down roots elsewhere. Businesses that get back in business elsewhere is mostly stay there.

New Orleans will be a town of the French Quarter, Garden District, Irish Channel, and Uptown. Gone will be the 9th Ward, Treme, Bywater, Central City, City Park, Lakeview, Bucktown, Gentilly. Give it 150,000 to 200,000 people at most. There just won't be the population there to produce those massive, lop-sided vote totals for the Democrats. There are some members of the Louisiana State Legislative that won't have any constituents to represent or vote in the next election. (How they handle that one will be interesting).

This has the Democrat power structure (of which Harry Connick Jr.'s family is part) scared ****less. That explains the charges of racism, the anti-Bush attacks, the refusal of the Governor to let the feds take over. Their backs are against the levees, and the water is rising.
17 posted on 09/03/2005 9:25:16 PM PDT by slyfoxvirden

9/03/2005 10:40:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Mega bureaucracy at work:
---
The procedures for what to do when the inevitable disaster hit were also subjected to a bureaucratic overhaul, still unfinished, by the department. Indeed, just last Tuesday, as New Orleans was drowning and DHS officials were still hours away from invoking the department's highest crisis status for the catastrophe, some department contractors found an important e-mail in their inboxes.

Attached were two documents -- one more than 400 pages long -- that spelled out in numbing, acronym-filled detail the planned "national preparedness goal."
The checklist, called a Universal Task List, appeared to cover every eventuality in a disaster, from the need to handle evacuations to speedy urban search and rescue to circulating "prompt, accurate and useful" emergency information. Even animal health and "fatality management" were covered.

9/03/2005 11:25:00 PM  
Blogger dune runner said...

One of the hardest hit areas around NO was St Bernard Parish. Completely under 10+ feet of water, they struggled through the first 4 or 5 days with only the resources they could provide themselves. All the attention and available support went to the Superdome.

BOURBONCONSERVATIVE has been doing an excellent job on his blog of keeping the information flowing for that area.

What little 'looting' occured in St Bernard was primarily law enforcement and firemen trying desperately to find any food and water for the survivors.

Now that the water has begun to recede a bit, Sherrif Jack A Stevens intends to keep it that way.

Quite a difference between the two sides of the river down there. Looks like at least some local officials in the NO area get the concept of dealing with anarchy.

9/04/2005 12:28:00 AM  
Blogger dune runner said...

My mistake, they are on the same side of the river. They are just on different sides of how to deal with a crisis.

By the way, I have been following events in St Bernard from the day the hurricane hit. My sisters live there (fortunately they both got out safely).

So far as I have been able to tell, the only law enforcement person (or fireman, or any other emergency responder) to leave the area was one deputy who finally collapsed from heat exhaustion yesterday trying to rescue people still trapped. He had to be medevaced out, and didn't sound real happy about being made to leave while there were still people who needed help.

9/04/2005 01:22:00 AM  
Blogger Karridine said...

Could this be a "bitter-sweet" opportunity? A sad, multi-death moment with fault-finding and blaming which is soon recognized as America's chance to 1)totally clean out, and KEEP out, the corrupt and ineffective and ignorant policymakers in NO; and 2) build within 10-14 days a temporary tent city of organized Americans, hard-working round the clock in CLEANUP and REFURBISHING; and 3)reactivating the Port facilities to enable NO to function in its primary responsibility, thereby not wasting this year's harvest throughout the Missippi valley; and 4) beginning long-term design and creation of a NEW New Orleans?

9/04/2005 01:26:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hate to rain on your beautiful parade, Carridine, but my guess is the Mayor will become a national hero to the M. Moore impaired.
What results from that, who knows.
...there should be attention given to why he could not get the Guv to request federal aid/intervention earlier, but there won't be.

9/04/2005 02:45:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Buddy, the Early Years" .
(At least they didn't name it Bareback Mountain)
Brokeback Mountain, the movie.
Response at early preview screenings has been positive, if notably damp. After one, Mr. Schamus said, "my wife came out of the ladies' room and said, 'There are 15 women in there, and they're all crying.' I said, 'You ought to see the mens' room.' "

"There's a private feeling to the movie, an intimate feeling," Mr. Lee said. "I think eventually everybody has a 'Brokeback Mountain' in them. Someone you want to come back to. And of course, some people don't come back."

Mr. Lee has it right: in whatever medium, "Brokeback Mountain" tells a great love story. Part of the story's power is the way the men's need for each other slips the bonds of definition, of categories. That's what makes it feel so elemental. You recognize the truth and the mystery of their experience.

But in a country that makes not just a virtue but a fetish of rugged individualism - and set against the big-sky backdrop most identified with that virtue - "Brokeback Mountain" strikes a deeper and more haunting chord: it's the story of people who, for no good reason under the sun, are not allowed to live their lives.

9/04/2005 02:46:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Will be looking forward to your Desert Station Posts, Dune Runner, glad to hear your sisters got out.
Amazing what how different cultures can be living border to border in the "same" State and Country.

9/04/2005 03:01:00 AM  
Blogger dune runner said...

doug, thanks. as a matter of fact, the first one just went up.

9/04/2005 04:41:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

Soug and Dune Runner: I think that people may gradually be coming to the realization that a whole subculture has died. Accoridng to all reports, NO was a world of its own for many people, and many could not bear the thought of ever leaving it.
That's all gone now, probably forever, since the people from there will of necessity be scattered to the winds.
This same thing happened last year here in Florida. I live on an island off the coast that weathered the storms and now has more homes than a year ago, but 70 miles or so south of here is another island near where two of the hurricanes came ashore last year. People lived happy, quiet lives there, but it was so devastated that most have left and have not even begun to rebuild. Those people probably never will goe back.
In the Florida panhandle, a number of the hotels destroyed by Ivan last year have not yet been rebuilt. You wonder if they ever will be.
New Orleans was far more insular and suffered far more destruction, both from the flooding and the aftermath. The effects will no doubt be telling.

9/04/2005 04:52:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

The greatest thing about this idea, IMO, is it is one whose time has come.
Someone else in a previous thread suggested just this.
...w/o the details.
And I am TIRED of being penney wise and pound foolish on all this PREDICTABLE stuff:
....And they are all of that and a six pack.
I would need a dozen pages to really go into their capabilities. Fortunately for me, someone else already has. To really understand what they can do, take a few minutes and check out the pages at globalsecurity.org. Be sure to click the side links for details. Go ahead, I’ll wait…
The Navy decided a few years ago to replace this class of ships with a new and improved version. The new ones are beginning to be deployed, so the LHAs are going to be decommissioned. The first one to go is the USS Belleau Woods (LHA-3), set for decommissioning at the end of October this year.Although I was in the Navy for many years, I never served on any type of “Gator Freighter” (sailor-ese for any of the Amphib ships).
So why am I inspired to blog about these fine ships and their impending demise? Well, that brings me to the water part. Lots of water. Lots of water flooding the homes of my sisters in St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana.
Fortunately, they were rescued and got out safely, but I didn’t know that for many days. So I spent most of my time searching the message boards for any word of them, and just generally following the tragic events that Katrina left as they unfolded. Like many of you, I couldn’t believe it was taking so long to get basic things like food and water and medical help to people there.

Not to people in St Bernard, completely cut off by floods, and not even to people in the Superdome and Civic Center that were apparently accessible by anything bigger than a good sized pickup pretty much anytime someone decided to drive there.
While I was searching and not finding information about my sisters, I was also thinking about hurricanes in general.
We don’t know exactly where they are going to hit until they do, but we DO know that at least 2 or 3 a year are going to hit somewhere on the US coastline.
Large or small, they will do so much immediate damage to the infrastructure wherever they hit, that it takes days to get relief supplies organized, staged and delivered from outside over damaged or impassable roads. We go through this on a larger or smaller scale, in at least two or three different places, every single year.
We KNOW we’re going to go through it every year.
Which brings me back to the Belleau Woods.
The same things that make this class of ship stand alone in assaulting a shoreline with 2000 Marines also make them stand alone in the ability to deliver immediate aid to hurricane ravaged coasts.
Instead of scrapping or sinking or selling these amazing machines to a foreign government, why not turn a few of them over to FEMA as they are decommissioned and use them for disaster relief?
If we had one of these on each coast, and one in the Gulf, we would be able to respond to disasters like this immediately anywhere on our coast, or the other islands and countries around us.
Hurricanes are usually identified, and their general track predicted, at least 5 or 6 days before they actually make landfall in the US. If we had these ships pre-loaded and ready with supplies, the full-time civilian crew could get ready to get underway. Notification could go out to pre-identified doctors, nurses, and other responders including National Guard if need be, giving them 48 hours to get on board.
The ship then puts to sea, gets in behind the hurricane at a safe distance, and just follows it to landfall.
Imagine how the scenario in New Orleans could have played out if this ship, fully loaded with equipment, relief supplies, helicopters, landing craft, trucks and bulldozers, and a couple thousand doctors, nurses, search and rescue specialists, aid workers and experienced cargo handlers, would have followed the hurricane in.

Literally within hours after Katrina struck, we could have had a small army on the ground moving relief supplies, setting up field hospitals for triage, evacuating critically injured people to a fully functioning hospital, conducting SAR by air and by boat. Delivering tons of food and water not only to the Superdome, but to isolated communities throughout the area.
Freeing up the police to be police and control the looting early.
Providing a command and control center with reliable communications to coordinate the work of all local and imported rescue workers.
If the supplies started running low, the ship could have been quickly re-supplied in place, from a cargo ship out of Texas or Florida, a short sail away.
It can be argued that keeping even one, let alone 3, of these ships in the sort of readiness needed is an expensive proposition.
I would agree, it takes a lot of money to run one of these monsters. Millions and millions a year in maintenance, upkeep and crew.
But we spend billions and billions every year on hurricane relief.

And we don’t know where to pre-stage that relief, because we don’t know where the hurricanes will hit.
So we are ALWAYS dealing with them in a reactive way.
That is wasteful in terms of dollars, let alone in lives lost due to the length of response time.
Bringing in the initial response by sea, we don’t need to know where the hurricane will hit.
We will have everything we need for the initial response following along right behind it wherever it goes.
By establishing this as our standard first response, we also develop a group of people who are highly experienced and expert at providing this relief.
Its their regular job.
Last but not least, think of the political gains here.
Rightly or wrongly, President Bush is taking the big hit for the ‘slow response’ to this tragedy.
Personally, I believe there is plenty of blame to go around at all levels of government on this one, from the city on up. But as one of his predecessors said,
“The Buck Stops Here”
Best thing he could do now is say something like
The initial response to the recent tragedy caused by Hurricane Katrina was unacceptable, and I take full responsibility for that.

So here’s what we’re going to do. Starting this October, I have ordered the Dept of the Navy to turn over to the Dept of Homeland Security three of the Tarawa Class Amphibious Assault Ships as they are decommissioned, beginning with the USS Belleau Woods this October.
These ships will be operated by FEMA, and converted to use specifically for immediate relief efforts in the case of hurricanes or other disasters that affect America’s shorelines.
These ships will be capable of following a hurricane in to wherever it strikes,
and providing immediate and massive amounts of relief supplies, medical assistance, and search and rescue capabilities by air, land and sea;
all within hours of the hurricane passing.”
You can almost hear him saying it can’t you?
And if it were up to me, I know what I’d call a re-named Belleau Woods when it was placed in service – the
Parish of St. Bernard
posted by dune runner @ ___10___

9/04/2005 06:26:00 AM  
Blogger Red River said...

NOAA is the only agency that has its act together from the get go. The forecasters all the way up to the head of the agency deserve a round of applause and drinks on the house.

Check out these pics.

http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/

9/04/2005 06:43:00 AM  
Blogger Red River said...

We are helping a family from NO. Their house which they own is under 10 fet of water. We thought they needed a place to stay, but all they really needed was info on Dallas. We got them a map and showed them around town. The dad is illiterate but works his butt off, but the mom is pretty sharp. The sons are very bright and will do well here. They plan to live here and will not go back. They were looking for apartments last night.

They have a special hatred for Nagin now. And they had many tales of the corruption in NO. It made my blood boil. That city was already on the verge of collapse due to teachers not getting paid. Wretchard, I think the financial issues may have been a contributing cause.

They praised Bush to God for what he is doing. "They need a Texan to go in there and clean house."

Katrina due to the diaspora and its effects will realign politics even further in the South.

I also think that at least in Texas, race issues will recede. This has brought out both communities in drove to deal with the issue.

9/04/2005 06:51:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"They have a special hatred for Nagin now."
---
GRRREAT!
Mental Health Prevails.

9/04/2005 07:00:00 AM  
Blogger sirius_sir said...

But there is a meta-message, something along the lines of 'we hate you'. And the question is how do you respond to that?

Wretchard,

The converse of the question is interesting too: What do those sending the message hope to accomplish?

Obviously, they hope to put those they criticize and rebuke at a disadvantage--politically, morally, economically--in order, it would seem, to gain advantage themselves. But the issue for them is complicated by the possibility that such criticism may not have the desired effect if it is seen to be capricious, outrageous, and unfair. Of course their side won't see it as defeat, but what else do you call it if it turns out that the less credulous amoung us tire of the abuse and just end up shaking our heads and walking away?

9/04/2005 07:32:00 AM  
Blogger Bob Smith said...

All kinds of wake-up calls in the immediate future. Whether they will be heeded or not is another matter.

Poster above mentioned stories of anger coming from a displaced family that support similar accounts I have noticed emerging from other contexts, which is the increasing polarization between government and the people.

Michael Kinsley wrote a book quite a while ago called Big Babies in which he criticized the American public for failing to engage in the institutions of democracy. Failure to represent the will of the people was laid squarely at the feet of the people.

Regardless of one's position, it is true that goverment does not represent popular will - at least no longer in the manner intended by the founding fathers, and, possibly more to the point, no longer in the manner expected by the current population. It is a serious problem.

9/04/2005 08:36:00 AM  
Blogger anybudee said...

Doug

That is the best idea I've heard in a long time. In fact, if it isn't implemented, someone with voice should shout it loud enough to put the decision makers on the spot to either accept or reject it.

How many people have died because this capability was not used? And not just in NO.

9/04/2005 09:04:00 AM  
Blogger Mike H. said...

Hurricane info at NASA scroll down and click the movie link "Looking at Hurricanes".

9/04/2005 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

anybudee,
Yeah, what was weird, was Trish's link 2 days ago, which let us see what REALITY was there, on the ground, apart from MSM approved weirdness, and the NEED was obvious.
The challenge, is how to get the message through the massive new "Homeland Security Dept." that never should have been created IMHO.
...responding to Democrat Madness.

9/04/2005 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

Judged on an international scale, do other countries compare or excel to our national responses to these occurances?

Looking at the ENTIRE area affected and the entire scale (1 million plus people), how do other countries compare...

9/04/2005 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger anybudee said...

Missed Trish's post. Kudos to her. (She tries SO hard to make a difference) She's on to something here.

Samuelson's story on the econ impact is sobering.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9190518/page/1/

I wonder if that proposed heavy lift capacity would help the oil guys in the gulf with repairs once the people evac and supply was done? Getting a few more platforms and pipelines back up would definitely be in the national interest.

9/04/2005 09:58:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

re: Katrina and Politics

Richard Feynman once said, "No matter what you look at, if you look at it closely enough, you are involved in the entire universe."

Man's universe is first and foremost political. Events rarely reach the necessary escape velocity to slip the surly bonds of that sphere.

But the political is in fact artificial, a contrivance of the mind. Should we then be surprised when perception creates truth, instead of the other way around?

9/04/2005 09:58:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Pork,
Palestine is Cooler.
Trust Me.
Carter and Bubba Do.
and,
Bubbado sounds cool.

9/04/2005 09:58:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Aristedes,
But the politics of the left has been the INVERSE of reality for far too long, and getting crazier by the minute.
ie
All politics is not the same.
(except possibly to MeMe believers)
:-)

9/04/2005 10:02:00 AM  
Blogger anybudee said...

pork

We do amazing things when the will is there. No one is better. Ask those Russian submariners.

I think the 'leadership' in LA was doing a Chappaquiddick. Quite unlike Giuliani and Co. four yrs ago.

9/04/2005 10:05:00 AM  
Blogger al fin said...

It is really amazing to see the utter helplessness of the Louisiana governments. Apparently the other governors along the Gulf of Mexico were much more proactive in getting help for their constituents. Such incompetence as was displayed by Louisiana and New Orleans governments should be a warning to other local governments. Insist on competence from your elected officials.

Perhaps New Orleans is suffering from the low-IQ syndrome that afflicts many third world countries. Anyone with sufficient intelligence may tend to move away. There may simply not be enough citizens of adequate intelligence in the region to keep a complex society going in adverse circumstances.

How many other regions of the USA may share the same problem?

9/04/2005 10:26:00 AM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

I think the 'leadership' in LA was doing a Chappaquiddick. Quite unlike Giuliani and Co. four yrs ago.

again, think macro....

how many people evacuated SAFELY and CALMLY?

how many people were WARNED and LISTENED?

how BIG a land mass in total are we talking about..

9/04/2005 10:28:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

Speaking of "Trish's post"...It's a weblog called The Interdictor (maybe I'll get it right this time: http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/ ) and Michael, chief poster, cook, and bottle washer, is former SF. Go figure.


The latest post is, ah, not particularly surprising, except perhaps the weirdness of evac-ing shopping carts along with their owners:

11:32 am Oprah and Other Latest Updates.
A confidential source reports that the Mayor of New Orleans and Oprah Winfrey will be sharing a helocopter flight over the city today. Also, he tells me that the NAACP is asking for permission to fly over the city to evaluate.


From Sig's morning recon: People are pretty much gone from the Dome, but there are around 100 who will not leave -- they are entenched and being referred to as Die Hard Saints Fans jokingly by the authorities. They would have to be forcibly removed. The stench from the Dome is sickening and all authorities in the area wear breath masks; the trash is piled up all over the place and human excrement is everywhere.

By the Casino, the various agencies have a very big presence with mini HQs in the area. Also the Dome and the Convention Center have large agency presences.

A lot of people still don't know where to evacuate. A lot of people were so scared of looting that they kept their presence hidden and are just now being discovered.

From an official source: New Orleans already had a big homeless population. A lot of the already homeless refused to leave without their shopping carts. So they won't go near the evac centers, even though we have heard reports that the helocopters will now allow people to bring their shopping carts with them.

And, to top it all off, as if to confirm my earlier post about government, the State and Federal governments are still at each other's throats. This crisis is going to require some leadership if things are gonna get better.

9/04/2005 10:33:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Our system is built on the principle that "no authority decides what is a good idea." Perceptions and interpretations compete in the political arena, and once adopted they are tested by reality and observed by the loyal opposition, who is, of course, quick to note any error or discrepencies.

The last gasp of a losing ideology is when it nominates itself as the authority. When reality is unkind, reality must be ignored. "Censure them," the Left cries, "they do not believe!"

The contempt of the snake-oil salesman is strong, and amusing. The Left no longer judges ideas. They judge men.

9/04/2005 10:35:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

But there are problems at the top w/the new DemoMandated Dept of Homeland Security.
(Civil Defense, anyone?)

"New leaders such as Allbaugh were critical of FEMA's natural disaster focus and lectured senior managers about the need to adjust to the post-9/11 fear of terrorism.
So did his friend Michael D. Brown, a lawyer with no previous disaster management experience whom Allbaugh brought in as his deputy and who now has the top FEMA post.

"Allbaugh's quote was 'You don't get it,' " recalled the senior FEMA official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
"If you brought up natural disasters, you were accused of being a pre-9/11 thinker."

The result, the official said, was that "FEMA was being taxed by the department, having money and slots taken. Because we didn't conform with the mission of the agency."

9/04/2005 10:44:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Anybuddee's Samuelson LINK

9/04/2005 10:54:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

AND, The now famous "Trish's LINK"

9/04/2005 10:57:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

A Little Embarrassed for you Trish: You had not yet heard about
"Shopping Cart Rights?"
That will be discussed on Ophra, along with the unbearable racism of southern Rednecks.
The Federal/State issue of Shopping Cart Rights is still being fought out between Brown of FEMA, and the Guverness of Louisiana.

9/04/2005 11:03:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Kid's Pet's Rights still don't exist.
(Not a high enough ratio of anal relationships.)

9/04/2005 11:06:00 AM  
Blogger Cutler said...

"Then there's Kanye West who says on an MSNBC fundraiser that "We already realize a lot of people that could help are at war right now, fighting another way -- and they've given them permission to go down and shoot us!"

Someone I know raised the idea [that hadn't even occured to me], that perhaps the reason they were so hesitant to grant permission to kill was they were afraid of other cities going up in flames ala Rodney King.

9/04/2005 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Cutler, see my 5:53 PM post.
You young whippersnappers should spend more time paying attention to your elders!
...at least worth a smirk or two!
;-)

9/04/2005 11:16:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

But the reason the Guverness didn't want to authorize the guard, is,
All Heart, No B....

9/04/2005 11:19:00 AM  
Blogger trish said...

Doug,

I did hear that the rule for helicopter evac currently is: your luggage or your animals. It's an improvement. If you're lucky to get out on a plane after that, they probably provide cargo space and carriers for the animals. Busses, no. I know exactly how that poor kid, along with so many others, felt. One terrible trauma on top of another.

Nagin and Oprah and the NAACP. Well, what CAN one say?

Anyone seen the LA governor lately?

9/04/2005 11:27:00 AM  
Blogger Cutler said...

Doug:

You made me LOL with that one. To be honest though, the person was actually closer to my age than yours. Apparently there's more than one of us young "reactionaries" out there.

9/04/2005 11:31:00 AM  
Blogger Cutler said...

Well, judging by South Park, there's a lot more than 2.

9/04/2005 11:32:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Al Fin, 10:26 AM
If they made previous experience as a hooker a requirement for office, the IQ/business acumen score would go up at least 15 points.

9/04/2005 11:32:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Trish,
Maybe you could bring the luggage AND baggage too, if you can have your kid perform a politically correct
"Pet Trick?"

9/04/2005 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

Eerie Saturday Night in the French Quarter (In the Looters Lounge)
My Way News ^ | Sep 4, 8:17 AM (ET) | DAN SEWELL


Posted on 09/04/2005 11:06:15 AM PDT by Mike Darancette


NEW ORLEANS (AP) - The only lights Saturday night on Bourbon Street were the flashing blues of police vehicles on patrol, the headlights of rumbling military trucks and an occasional flashlight or cigarette glow among bedraggled holdout residents.

"Why does any local stay? Because this is our neighborhood, this is home," said Ride Hamilton, 29. He has turned his French Quarter home into a mini-warehouse of supplies for his neighbors. He said he accumulated the goods during daily "shopping" trips to local stores, "trying to get it before somebody else does. We're relying on ourselves out here."

Johnny White's Sports Bar, which has no doors and, according to locals, never closes, has become a gathering place for some of those who remained downtown when Katrina devastated the city Monday.

"It's very eerie and disturbing," said Joseph Bellomy, 23, a Cleveland native who moved here in February and has been working as a bartender. His T-shirt's slogan: "How much fun can I have before I go to hell? - French Quarter."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1477191/posts

9/04/2005 11:35:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

New Orleans Mayor: "CIA Will Wipe Me Out"

September 3, 2005 10:02 p.m. EST


Douglas Maher - All Headline News Staff Reporter

New Orleans, Louisiana (AHN) - Apparently suffering from stress and a bit of paranoia, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin tells CNN Saturday night that he believes the CIA will "wipe him out" after his criticism of President Bush and the Federal Government in response to Hurricane Katrina.

Mayor Nagin seemed to have calmed down after meeting with President Bush for two hours on Friday but became stressed again over the current situation still unfolding in his city.

The Mayor has come under serious scrutiny and criticism in the last 72 hours after photos of parking lots filled with school buses that were sitting in a foot of water were released on the Internet. Many critics of the Mayor and Gov. Blanco say the buses could have saved an estimated 20,000 people if they had been used for emergency evacuations which President Bush had declared two days before Katrina hit.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7000018155

9/04/2005 11:37:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

"Anyone seen the LA governor lately? "
---
She's busy w/her Stealth Presidential Bid:
All out push for the Female/Eunich/Gay/Bi/Trans Demographic.

9/04/2005 11:38:00 AM  
Blogger Aristides said...

Would Blacks across the country really rise up in solidarity with looters?

Whites would not. Asians would not. Would Latinos? Surely not Jews. Muslims?

When Blacks study hard and speak proper English, they are accused by their peers of "acting White", of being Uncle Toms. It is the Black Community, whatever that is, that defines its own culture, and it has embraced a characterization of negatives. What's left for them, when they reject Whitey's norms, is unsuccessful behavior, and victimhood. A poor strategy in a world of competitive labor.

What are the percentages of success for "acting White"; how many rise up out of poverty by "acting Black."

Tough questions, with tough answers. As Thomas Sowell points out, many Blacks in this country voluntarily define themselves as rednecks. As memes go, it is quite the virus.

9/04/2005 11:39:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Charles,
RadioBlogger is where I first saw those pics, at least 2 days ago:
Blogstorm Nagin Out of Office!

9/04/2005 11:40:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Aristedes,
Be sure not to miss my 10:26 PM post, and the WaPo link to same article at 9:30.

9/04/2005 11:42:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Mighta known Cnn would not post the pics!
---
It's Bush's Fault!!.
NO Schoolbuses, in place.
. The media's blame game .
The debate is already well underway about who makes the grade and who fails in the response to the mess in New Orleans. Well, the debate is among thinking people. It's not really a debate in the mainstream media anymore. The full court press is on by members of MSM to lay this all off on George W. Bush and his administration. This is complete absurdity.

Hugh and I spoke briefly about that this morning, and he's not as worried as I about the latest campaign by the media sticking, because it's not true. And it's demonstrably easy to prove. Hugh pointed me to a photo that was posted on Free Republic, that is a true example of a picture being worth a thousand words:
Think those buses would have come in handy this week? Especially if you need to move a lot of people out of the convention center and Superdome?
Local government had 48 hours from when Katrina turned north until it hit.

This can't happen if local government is competent. The media will try make this the federal government's fault, but as we continue to see Governor Blanco, a nice lady, but completely over her head, and hear New Orleans Mayor Nagin descend into a foul-mouthed tirade, and continue to see the feds move in, Hugh's right. The American people are going to see through the media's spin.

9/04/2005 11:47:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Nine stockpiles of fire-and-rescue equipment strategically placed around the country to be used in the event of a catastrophe still have not been pressed into service in New Orleans, CNN reports Saturday night. Responding to a CNN inquiry, Department of Homeland Security spokesman Marc Short said Friday, "The gear has not been moved because none of the governors in the hurricane-ravaged area has requested it."
---
San Diego Fire and Rescue brought theirs with them
Rescued 250 people, and then were told to stop, because it was too dangerous.

9/04/2005 11:51:00 AM  
Blogger Charles said...

THE GENERAL WELFARE

What Women Want
Why do the poor have children out of wedlock? It's not just a matter of money.

BY AMY L. WAX
Sunday, September 4, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007207

9/04/2005 11:53:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

As I said before:
How many died as a DIRECT RESULT
of their
incompetence/inaction/obstruction?

9/04/2005 11:53:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

What children want:
PARENTS.
A mom and a dad.

9/04/2005 11:54:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

I just heard on FNC where the Coast Guard reported that they found a HOSPICE in NO that STILL had 20 people inside. 10 had died and the other 10 were clinging to life.
What kind of a city, county, or state government does not make sure the hospices are evacuated!!!!!????
Where I live, the hurricane response leaves much to be desired, but they call every home, advise people that there is an evactuation order, and ask you if you need any help with the evacuation. I have seen THREE police cars at ONE house during an evacuation when there was some kind of problem getting the people out.
And what kind of a government does not make getting to those kinds of places after the storm - hospices and nursing homes - TOP PRIORITY!?!?!
The NO government was not just incompetant, it was crimminal!

9/04/2005 12:01:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

I wouldn't expect Nagin to last much longer. Lose his mind or take his own life.

It happens in far lesser tragedies.

9/04/2005 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

anybuddee - We do amazing things when the will is there. No one is better. Ask those Russian submariners.

Actually, the British arrived first with their vessel and a British team, aided by a few Americans arriving on the scene - like a doctor to examine the trapped subbies if they were rescues - the Brits decided their skills could compliment the British effort. But the actual rescue, a very difficult one manuvering around a 100 ton underwater listening grid and cutting netting off it aand the trapped sub, at peril of getting ensnared themselves, was a British show.

*********************

DuneRunner had a good idea, as Doug echoes, about assigning many of the Navy ships Bush is getting rid of, to keep going with his tax cuts for America's wealthiest. Tarawa class ships could be incredibly valuable if put to other uses, like disaster relief. Won't happen with Bush in office though, because Bush needs a downsized military to justify spending increases (Big Pharma's drug subsidy, highway pork) and tax cuts for CEOs.

If it does happen, the place to put the ships unde command and care of is the US Coast Guard, not leaving it to having FEMA lawyers and bureaucrats running ships.

The other thing is I think Hollywood has made us a little helicopter-happy as a way of bringing assistance to disasters. The US Navy was forced to use that inefficient means of ferrying in 1/2 ton of supplies per sortie because they had no amphibious elements with them during the tsunami. The Tarawa class is helos. They have uses. But if we decide to have a disaster relief fleet, it would be far more effective to have mixed in LSTs that contain up to 24 shallow draft landing boats that can carry several hundred tons of emergency supplies each.

9/04/2005 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

From The Energy Bulletin (http://www.energybulletin.net/8649.html):

Published on 1 Sep 2005 by A Theory of Power (blog). Archived on 3 Sep 2005.

US gov't awareness of peak oil
by Jeff Vail

I gave an intelligence briefing to the Assistant Secretary of the Interior, Tom Weimer, today. He's in charge of "water and science", which includes the US Geological Survey, the agency in charge of the official government calculations on oil reserves and depletion. Most PeakOil nay-sayers rely on the USGS's 2000 report that shows an excessively optimistic projection for recoverable oil reserves, but what does USGS really think?

All I can say for sure is that Weimer didn't have any objections to my assertion that Peak Oil may well be a Fall 2005 event, nor that the world is facing a serious energy SUPPLY crisis in the near future. Does the government have some master Peak Oil plan? I have no idea, but claims that they are ignorant about the problem are simply incorrect.

[A doubling of the Strategic Reserve, at currently stratospheric prices, was appended to the 2005 Energy Bill.]

9/04/2005 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger Cedarford said...

While we talk of technical fixes to natural disasters like bigger and better relief delivery means, better levees, "improved interagency communications", "better pay for the heroes in law enforcement in New Orleans"....whatever the "Loi-Yahs" in DC later explain would have made the hurricane all better from more taxpayer dollars spent on things...

We have to look at human responsibility.

There has to be an expectation that individuals will conduct themselves as civilized beings in a disaster. They will treat their fellow citizens with respect, not steal, not rape or kill. Or get shot down like rabid dogs by protectors with no time to capture them, construct a jail for them and get them a free ACLU loi-yah in the disaster chaos. They will stock up emergency supplies, they will listen.

Other countries far poorer than America have bred better citizenship that that shown by the black underclass. We cannot afford to have a mindset that twists the Hobbesian social contract into a cancerous new version:

We the underclass have no resposibilities. Your responsibility is to provide us lifetime services, so we don't have to think past an hour by hour existence. If you fail to provide us with any demanded service, we will riot and kill and steal. If you let your guard down, evacuate in an emergency, or an opportune moment like a blackout comes.....and fail to protect what is yours, it is ours if we can take it.

It wasn't just New Orleans. Baton Rouge, Pascagoula, Biloxi, Morgan City, and Mobile Metro all reported gangs of black thugs committing all sorts of mayhem with the police unable to get around or tied up on rescue missions. Predation on other refugees, even at rescue shelters. And mass looting, not just by thugs, but large percentages of the black population in several cities going for some free Christmas shopping.

So we have to confront this underclass. If we don't, they are a timebomb waiting to make any national disaster affecting underclass areas much worse, and causing additional death and injury to the law-abiding majority of all races. WE have to confront them by efforts to eliminate them as a class when and where we can, stop giving their jobs to illegal aliens, and communicate clear expectations on behavior - with disobedience to be met not by ACLU defenders but by brutal but moral force.

Including laws permitting shoot to kill. With immunity from liability. With the burden of proof not on the cop, soldier, citizen defending herself from rape, or property owner to justify killing roaming wolfpacks or looters, but on anyone who cares to press that Johnny getting waxed in a jewelry store at 4AM was a wrongful shooting.

9/04/2005 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

More than enough to go around.

From Brendan at the Irish Trojan's Weblog:

Liars, damn liars, and...
# 9/04/2005 09:32:00 AM EST
Posted by Brendan


"Defending the U.S. government's response to Hurricane Katrina, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff argued Saturday that government planners did not predict such a disaster ever could occur." --CNN

Read the whole thing. It's stunning. It's infuriating. The man is simply lying through his teeth.

9/04/2005 01:15:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Cederford: You are right about the "Helicopter Happy" aspects.
When there is a high rise fire people rush to the roof expecting choppers to come rescue them. There almost never are any. Most hotels and apartment buildings don't have suitable landing areas on the roof anyway, even if the choppers are available.
And as I look at the the pictures from NO I think: "AMTRACS" I know they are pretty big, but they would seem tailor made for that kind of job. Even armed and able to handle the looters if required.
I guess we don't have DUKWs or Weasels or amphib jeeps or the smaller AMTRACS as we did in WWII.
And most ironically of all: New Orleans was where Higgens built all those little landing craft in WWII (LCVP?). Shallow draft, flat bottoms, drop ramps at the bow, and props protected by tunnels; would seem tailor made for this op. I have been fully expecting to see one out of a museum out doing the job in its hometown.

9/04/2005 01:25:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

Why isn't a lot of the disaster relief already contracted out? Not like KBR and Halliburton, for instance, haven't set up shop in similar circumstances. That's part of their gig.

9/04/2005 01:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Trish,
That's why a Rumsfeld Type (Wolfie?) should head fema, instead of innocent (experience wise) Lawyer Brown.

9/04/2005 01:42:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

rwe,
The plywood boats that won the war!
He made something like 2/3 of the entire Navy Fleet!
...outsider type.

9/04/2005 01:44:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Brown and Chertoff
should both be offed.

9/04/2005 01:46:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

C4,
There's no way the military can spend as much with the people's CONSENT/Approval, as "Big Pharma's," so that has to be the Government's Primary Growth Engine.

9/04/2005 01:49:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

State of Louisiana Emergency Operations Plan Supplement 1A - Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan
Revised January 2000

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf

9/04/2005 01:52:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

The Guv and Nagin:
Blood on their hands, mourning orphans at their feet:
---
How many have seen that sad CNN Video of the Australian Family?
3 boys, 1 girl, 1 Dad.
Dad last heard from mom in Superdome reporting she had be robbed and assaulted.
They still have hope.
Unfortunately, I'm afraid ignorance (of our subanimal class rights) and hope are all they have left.

9/04/2005 01:53:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Doug: Supposedly Hitler called Higgens "That guy who is winning the war for the Americans."
And in the town where he built them, and needs them so desperatly now, they don't have any.
I saw a couple literally out in the weeds at Camp Pendleton around 1982 and there are some in the USMC Musuem at Quantico. And I guess they had at least one in the musuem in NO.
Friend of mine used to live in NO until the mid-60's; his father rebuilt PBYs. They could use some of those down there now, too.

9/04/2005 01:54:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

The incompentcy of the NO Locals is unbelievable.
The LA Governor's performance has been less than heroic
The destruction in MS and AL is normal hurricane/ storm surge damage.
NO is another kettle of fish, entirely. The city survived the Storm. It was the levees that failed, as they were bound to, eventually.

That the Locals and State officials had no plan to implement upon levee failure is unbelievable.
The Federal response has been reasonable, both timely and scalable.
Considering the poor Local management of the situation the Feds seem to be doing well.
But to claim, as
"... Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff argued Saturday that government planners did not predict such a disaster ever could occur."
is beyond belief.
He should be fired, just for saying such a stupid thing.

9/04/2005 01:54:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Homeland Security should be broken back up:
It was the dems that demanded it as I recall.
Or it could have been DC as a whole, (a-holes more like it)
but making a mega mega bureaucracy was the LAST thing we should have done in response to 9-11.

9/04/2005 01:58:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Brown quote,
"Things are really going quite well."
...80 mi away in Baton Rouge.

9/04/2005 02:00:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

What about the bodies all over?
Brown:
"My personnel have not told me of that, and I'm not going to speculate."

9/04/2005 02:01:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

They just reported on Fox News that 6 out of a group of 8 armed men were shot and killed on a NO bridge.

Good men took out a terrorist squad, the Battle of New Orleans II begins, today.
We may have a "New Hickory" before it's over.

9/04/2005 02:04:00 PM  
Blogger desert rat said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9/04/2005 02:09:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

2/3 was NOTHING!
---
Higgins Industries.
Of these boats, 12964, or 92% of the entire US Navy, were designed by HigginsIndustries, Incorporated;
8865 were built at the Higgins plants in New Orleans

9/04/2005 02:11:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

'Rat,
And the General in charge has gotten APPLAUSE so far.
(Has the NOW unique ability to DISCRIMINATE between peaceful citizens and worthless, violent, scum.)

9/04/2005 02:14:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Nagin got 1 call right:
Lt. Gen. Honore
the
"John Wayne dude."

9/04/2005 02:20:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Oh for the days:

"The Guy who Relaxes,
Is Helping the Axis."

9/04/2005 02:24:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

His total output for the Allies during World War II was 20,094 boats, a production record for which Higgins Industries several times received the Army-Navy "E", the highest award that the armed forces could bestow upon a company.

Higgins was the ideal person for the needs of the time. In World War II, with its massive contracts, his strengths - design and rapid production - were all-important. Administrative weaknesses were suddenly irrelevant - the war offered him opportunity. Had the Japanese not bombed Pearl Harbor, Higgins probably would have remained a successful, but small, southern boat builder. Because of the war, he rapidly became an internationally known figure (even Hitler was aware of Higgins, calling him the "new Noah").

9/04/2005 02:27:00 PM  
Blogger ex-democrat said...

trish -- on the subject of liars and damned liars, have you seen an accurate transcript of that Chertoff interview? I'd like to see for myself what he said - rather than how he is being quoted by CNN.

9/04/2005 02:27:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

Says it was NO police, Doug. As it should be.

9/04/2005 02:28:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

"Kuwait to Give $500M for Katrina Relief"

9/04/2005 02:37:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

No, ex-dem, all I see on offer is CNN's account:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.chertoff/index.html

Full transcript is probably floating around somewhere on the net. Does DHS have it?

9/04/2005 02:41:00 PM  
Blogger ex-democrat said...

"The soft bigotry of low expectations."
- to all male Belmont Clubbers: imagine,for one second, that we comprised the men who filled the Superdome. Can you imagine that we would not have done the following (at the very least): (1)organized ourselves so as to make sensible collective decisions; (2) organized the space so as to separate the families from the single men; (3) organized security in case of bad elements; (4) organized search parties to locate provisions and a means of escape; and even (5) organized teams to help RESCUE those who didn't make it to the dome??
Instead, our esteemed media silently deafens us with its view that there is 'nothing to see here;' i.e. nothing chronically dysfunctional about the culture of depravity on display in the superdome.

9/04/2005 02:43:00 PM  
Blogger ex-democrat said...

(btw - i don't mean to be sexist and suggest that only men would or should have done these things: i'm just (perhaps a bit clumsily) trying to share the view that we, as men, would surely have set OURselves far higher standards.)

9/04/2005 02:45:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

Ex-Dem: You have a point there, except...
People with that much "stuff" together would not have stayed in the dome and instead would have gone out to find boats and rescue others - and eventually find a way to get out of the area and not stand around and wait to be rescued.
The first bus to make it to the Houston Astrodome was a school bus that a guy located, drove off without authorization, loaded up with refugees and headed out on his own.

9/04/2005 02:56:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

ex-dem, 2:43 PM
That wouldn't leave much time for laying back/hanging out, TV Face Time, and etc.
Kinda INSENSITIVE of you.
JMO.

9/04/2005 02:59:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Trish,
Probably the first time the cops felt SAFE firing their weapons since Nagin's been Mayor, the missus/Guv.

9/04/2005 03:00:00 PM  
Blogger ex-democrat said...

(ok, in for a penny...) and WHY are "local volunteers" preparing meals at the Astrodome? have the people brought there suddenly lost the use of their arms and legs?

9/04/2005 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger trish said...

"imagine,for one second, that we comprised the men who filled the Superdome."

Nice fantasy. Leaders aren't paid to entertain them or to fool with them.

9/04/2005 03:38:00 PM  

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