Thursday, July 07, 2005

Waiting for Disaster

Christopher Hitchens thinks the London attackers may have been homegrown. In an article in Slate, Hitchens argued the attacks were timed to coincide with specifically British public events, the G8 meeting in Edinburgh, the successful Olympic hosting bid and the imminent extradition trial of the hook-handed Mullah Abu Hamza al Mazri. Therefore:

This would mean that the cell or gang was homegrown, rather than smuggled in from North Africa or elsewhere. Or it could mean coordination between the two. In any event, there are two considerations here. The first is Britain's role as a leading member of the "Coalition" in Iraq and Afghanistan. The second is its role as a host to a large and growing Muslim minority. The first British citizens to be killed in Afghanistan were fighting for the Taliban, which is proof in itself that the Iraq war is not the original motivating force. Last year, two British Muslims pulled off a suicide attack at an Israeli beach resort. In many British cities, there are now demands for sexual segregation in schools and for separate sharia courts to try Muslim defendants. The electoral strength of Muslims is great enough to encourage pandering from all three parties: The most egregious pandering of all has come from Blair himself, who has promised legislation that would outlaw any speech that could be construed as offensive to Islam. Since most British Muslims are of Asian descent, a faint sense exists that criticism of their religion is somehow racist: In practice this weak-mindedness leads to the extension of an antiquated law on blasphemy that ought long ago to have been repealed but is now to cover the wounded feelings of Muslims as well as Christians.

But if Hitchens is correct, and he may well be, then really effective countermeasures cannot be limited to a roundup of the usual suspects or the destruction of a few hundred or thousand Jihadis in the Pakistani northwest frontier. It must necessarily reverse the dynamic Hitchens is describing: the creeping growth of the radical Islamic political infrastructure under the mantle of political correctness. It means closing mosques, deporting people, outlawing the spread of certain conspiratorial associations. In a word, it means stepping on every sacred shibboleth the Left has worshipped these last half century. It's doubtful whether the loss of less than fifty people in Britain will be enough to effect such a sea-change unless the Brits are made of even sterner stuff than they credited with having. Winston Churchill knew the dynamic of appeasement well.

If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

This doesn't mean that internments or anything of the sort should be started. But it does make the case for dismantling the radical Islamic infrastructure as early as possible because that is far less painful than having to dismantle it late.

26 Comments:

Blogger NahnCee said...

Vigilante-ism?

7/07/2005 07:41:00 PM  
Blogger wretchardthecat said...

We would regret vigilanteeism because it's not that effective. Remember the Sikhs who were attacked in the belief they were some kind of Al Qaeda? And many of the most poisonous enemies of all are the smooth, native born spokesmen of the Left. Vigilanteeism is what happens when you have a failure of law and order; a refusal by the authorities to fight. The whole effort should be at awakening the body politic, despite the sedatives of the Left, so that they can fight.

Without that awakening, society is doomed. And it's a test. People have to deserve victory; merit winning; earn the right to survive. Civilization has to struggle forward with the lumber of the Left on its back, carrying with it the people who don't want to win, who want to die; who believe they deserve death. Like Robert Fisk who "understood" why he was being beaten; like the British reporter who, lying shot in Riyadh, pleaded "help me! I'm a Muslim! A Muslim!" Like that British lawyer, who after surviving the London train attack said "we must pity the people who could do this." He had no pity for the victims or for himself. Civilization must win despite these men. We must bear the ring, though we do not know the way.

7/07/2005 07:52:00 PM  
Blogger exhelodrvr1 said...

This isn't going to be the turning point. It will require either a number of similar scale attacks to do so, or else a really big one (i.e. a nuke/dirty bomb) to shake people free from the PC ropes.

7/07/2005 07:56:00 PM  
Blogger wretchardthecat said...

I'll consider Churchill passe when we do him one better. He stood alone against Hitler and won in the end. We have yet to win. But if you look at my previous post, I say we are winning. And as I've said to Nahncee, it's steady as she goes. No vigilanteism.

But I'll say it again. The Left is part of the problem and there will be scant hope of pulling this one home unless they can be successfully countered polemically and politically. And no one is asking the Europeans to "abandon all they have worked for". One is asking them to defend it. They did not fight for the privilege of being bombed in the Tube.

7/07/2005 07:59:00 PM  
Blogger jp said...

UK will pass an anti terror bill to allow wiretaps, and other crime fighting approaches. The most militant of the hate preachers will be detained and perhaps sent away. who knows what else, but those 2 would be a good start

7/07/2005 08:04:00 PM  
Blogger exhelodrvr1 said...

One advantage the europeans do have is that their police have far fewer restrictions on them than ours do. Which always makes for good irony when Pres Bush is accused of making the U.S. a police state.

7/07/2005 08:23:00 PM  
Blogger diabeticfriendly said...

the question is to me.... will england continue to talk to hamas? will the brits still think mortars fired at israelis by palestinians is free speech?

7/07/2005 09:04:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7/07/2005 09:25:00 PM  
Blogger exhelodrvr1 said...

The problem is not just immigrants in Europe, it is the children of those immigrants who are now adults, and native-born. THis is not just a case of tightening up immigration laws.

7/07/2005 09:27:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

Be interesting to see if that anti-religious hate speech bill the Brits were kicking around will survive. My guess is that it will give a soft sigh of defeat and then roll over and disappear.

7/07/2005 10:03:00 PM  
Blogger sammy small said...

Heather,
People like Jack Straw seem to have some sixth sense about the peace loving Muslim community that many are just not able to discern. I would ask Jack how he knows this. Has he called on the Muslim community of Britain to rally against their extremists and support Western values?

I seem to recall reading about at least two attempts do this in the U.S. in the past year, one in Phoenix and one in D.C. Neither could muster enough Muslims to make it worth counting.

If the Muslim communities would start off by demonstrating even a minimal amount of allegiance to their new Western countries, then progress against Jihadis would move so much faster. Without it, I fear a long and devastating conflict.

7/07/2005 11:06:00 PM  
Blogger truepeers said...

Evil Dave, I'm Canadian and I know who I am. If push comes to shove you don't need to doubt Canadians are with you; it's just that most Canadians will be in left liberal fantasy denial for a time yet, as are still a lot of AMericans and Europeans. If many of us have trouble knowing who we are and fall for the simplemindedness of anti-Americanism, it is because we are so much like you. The narcissism of small differences. But ours is not the anti-Americanism of, say, the Pakistanis or Saudis. We would never side with them if a real fight breaks out. Anyway, some of us are already very pro-American because we are, in the larger sense, Americans, with families and friends interwined with yours, right back to the pre-Revolutionary era. Our civilization runs a little deeper than you seem to give credit for; unfortunately, many people don't really discover their depths - who they are - until the party is over and the world starts to make some serious demands on their existence.

7/07/2005 11:57:00 PM  
Blogger RWE said...

I don't think these attacks will be enough to start the broad-based eradication of Muslim subcultures that would lead to a better world for everyone.
But Wretchard's point about "better sooner than later" is that "sooner" equates roughly to the U.S. internment of Japanese-Americans - which was VOLUNTARY - those in the camps were those who perferred to live there rather than "anywhere but the U.S. West Coast" - and were nonviolent - they were not death camps.
"Later" equates to something more along the line of POW camps - or, God forbid - Buchenwald.
Unless the Muslims get the message "even sooner" and flush their own toilet.

7/08/2005 05:29:00 AM  
Blogger moderationist said...

IMO, after watching coverage, a great low tech and low cost deterrent would be bomb sniffing dogs everywhere. Instead of expensive devices, buses, trains, airports, etc., could have their dogs.

Islamists are afraid of dogs.

7/08/2005 06:10:00 AM  
Blogger T said...

Hitchens is a drunken trotskyist popinjay.

7/08/2005 06:23:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

but iotm, he is my favorite drunken trotskyist popinjay.
Some of you guys do see the light.
Then the name calling and attempts at personal destruction begins. Nothing worse than a traitor to the cause. He still believes in personal liberty and freedom. His personal dislike of Bush & company pales in comparison to his hatred of fascism. It seems yours does not.

7/08/2005 07:37:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

As opposed to a drunken Stalinist popinjay.
Perhaps y'all of that persuasion should just have him killed...

7/08/2005 07:42:00 AM  
Blogger desert rat said...

rwe
that is usually their first course of action.
No free speach in iotm land
Salman Rushdie, Van Gough, and that Dutch politician whose name is not on the tip of my fingers.
Say the wrong thing and it is off with your head. Such liberty, such freedom. Love of ideas and debate.
Women love to be honor raped, they REALLY do.

7/08/2005 07:48:00 AM  
Blogger buddy larsen said...

He became a drunken Trotsyite popinjay the instant he decided to name Red Fascism. Before that instant, he was just fine.

7/08/2005 07:53:00 AM  
Blogger RWE said...

Securitymom: Good point! If you restrict the rights of law-abiding people who you have no reason to consider as a threat, what would you do to people where you have a really good reason to suspect a threat?
Unfortunately, it will not be viewed that way.
But it can be done. In 1978, when the Iranian Islamic revolution ocurred, one small Okalhoma City college looked around, decided that they just had too many of those durn folks around (like over 50% of the student body) and shipped almost all of them home.
And, folks, we learned two new phrases today:
"turgid Churchillian tripe"
and "drunken Trotsyite popinjay"
Come to Belmont Club for all of your ridiculous phraseology needs, 24/7!

7/08/2005 08:43:00 AM  
Blogger T said...

Oh please desert rat, I was making a joke which you obviously didn't get it.

Meanwhile the only response to anything I say is a littany of insults and personal attacks. Mainly because my arguments tend to rip apart the original post, and the majority of people who post here are a bunch of yes-men for wretchard it seems. Thus the obvious recourse is personal attacks, couldn't dare think up a response on your own!

Sounds like the bush is calling the tree a plant.

7/08/2005 12:02:00 PM  
Blogger T said...

desert rat, you should do some reading on the plight of women in Iraq under US occupation. Also, didn't the US give the Taliban something in the order of $30 million in 2000, funny how there was no concern for women's rights then.

No consistency whatsoever. You people will buy whatever public relations excuse the government throws at you. You talk about free speech, the only speech you accept is straight from the monkey's mouth, everyone else is ridiculed and attacked in an attempt to distract people from what they actually said.

Start here http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

Not a rosy picture, goes from women having full equality to them losing jobs and not being able to leave their house without a hijab and male escort. Congratulations Bush on restoring repression to women in Iraq!

7/08/2005 12:08:00 PM  
Blogger buddy larsen said...

iotm, if I may ask, how old are you?

7/08/2005 03:10:00 PM  
Blogger That Was The River said...

IOTM

Since you provide no reference links, I won't. But the 30 million in aid you reference to Afgh. was for poppy crop alternative subsidies in efforts to fight the heroin trade. This was a number touted by the likes of Michael Moore after 9/11 to prove the recent US "support" of the Taliban. Still being used by the less informed four years later. Interesting.

I wonder what other "facts" you have wrong.

7/08/2005 05:12:00 PM  
Blogger NahnCee said...

God, he's citing riverbend. No wonder.

Isn't it amazing that out of all the bloggers writing from Iraq now, he chooses *that* one to hold up for our edification?

7/08/2005 07:43:00 PM  
Blogger Boghie said...

I have to concur with Wretchard when he states that we are winning the GWOT - even with the millstone of the Left hanging around our necks.

I think militant Islam is now forced to expand the war. Al Qaeda and the other Islamofascist misfits realize that Iraq and Afghanistan are battles lost. By definition, expanding the war includes the pacifist Western European countries as well as Canada. They hate them too - and they are much easier targets (ones that don't fight back too well). However, expanding the fight does mean expanding your enemies.

Great Brittan was victorious with Churchill and a loser with Chamberain. As in WWII England will adjust and overcome.

7/08/2005 08:02:00 PM  

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